Who of these two did more damage to pro wrestling in his career?

>>1737493
Hard to say, Trips ruined his share of main events but Punk also created an entire legion of smark hybrids with his worked shoot.

So I suppose Trips has done more direct damage, but Punk indirectly

HHH doing "damage" to wrestling is subjective, im indifferent towards him and didn't mind him being in the Main Event scene bc i understand you need a legit heel that gets heat and ppl hate to go against the face and he was easily the top heel from 1999-2008.

Punk on other hand has objectively fucked up wrestling with his cult smarks, being a legitimate comic book straight-edge nerd that created a sterotype that that's what wrestling fans are and getting his ass beat so bad in front of millions which now gives the masses a new sterotype that all wrestlers/wrestling fans are pussy.

So EASILY Punk

triple gay was a large part of wwe from 1999-2001 so CM Punk

>>1737535
>HHH doing "damage" to wrestling is subjective

Check the ratings

>>1737539
You should check the numbers, HHH isn't HBK. Haitch was a draw and that's a fact (not saying the biggest draw or even top 5), the "Reign of Terror" years Raw was beating SD every week/month and was consistently in the 4.0+ in ratings

>>1737545
The reign of terror wasn't the first time he was killing the company tho.

Already in 2001 people were sick of his shit

>inb4 that one pop he got makes him loved by everyone

>>1737545
>2008

>>1737562
Doesn't matter if ppl were sick of him or not, he still was a draw and the ratings going down when was gone for nearly a year in 2001 back it up. Cena is the face version of HHH, millions have been sick of him since 2009 but Cena still draws.

>>1737539
Triple H drawing numbers are better than Punks (flat out fact) so what's your point?

Was Punk more over than HHH with the PG Era smark crowds? Obviously, but hI'm as champ didn't give the WWE better ratings than what H did in the AE/RA Era. Just truth

>>1737592
>Triple H drawing numbers are better than Punks

Because Trips was champ during the Stone cold and The Rock era.

Punk became relevant when ratings were already in the shitter.

If Trips debuted 10 years later and he became champ first time in 2011 the ratings would still be shit.

>>1737592
>le book himself against draws to make himself look like a draw man
>draw

>>1737601
First off "If's" are irrelevant

Second, HHH didn't have Austin/Rock in the RA Era as the face counterpart in his feuds, it was mainly "Mr. No Dimes" HBK, young Orton, a green Batista and HHH still drew. Also not everyone who held the WWF Title when Rock/Austin were around was drawing; Jericho, Kurt, Taker, Kane, Show didn't draw dimes.

>>1737652
Taker did 9.5

Triple H is responsible for Balor, Sasha, The Shield.

Punk has a cult following that are annoying marks but HHH is responsible fot NXT which has worse fans.

>>1737601
Punk would have been an utter joke in the Attitude Era. Probably feuding with the likes of Mideon and Droz until the others realized that he was a faggot who doesn't even drink and bully gim into retirement.

>>1737682
>Triple H is responsible for Balor, Sasha, The Shield.
In what way? He pushes them, but he didn't do shit when it comes to gimmick or their work.

>>1737684
I don't think so.
Benoit headlined a PPV in a singles match in the Attitude Era, and Austin and Rock weren't much, or any actually, more muscular and taller than Punk at that time.

>>1737493

HHH is currently running pro wrestling into the ground. He's doing a great job too.

>>1737684
As opposed to that renowned drunkard & pillhead HHH?

>>1737695
Vince is the one booking the shows, marky.

>>1737511
>Punk invented smarks

I...what?

>>1737695
Vince calls all the shots on the main roster mark, HHH runs NXT and normies don't even know what shit is.

Vince is killing wrestling letting his daughter push her sjw agenda on the national TV, stop giving that old fag a pass.

>>1737687
He pushes them so he is responsible.

>>1737715
Haitch can take care of himself in a shoot fight in the locker room. Phillip Brooks would probably just end up broken and naked on the shower floor after JBL and Farooq had their way with him.

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>>1737766
>Phillip Brooks would probably just end up broken and naked on the shower floor after JBL and Farooq had their way with him.

I am pretty Sure CM 25 seconds Punk had a bit of a fightning background before doing wrestling.

of course he was completly destroyed and made a bitch vs Gall. But in a locker room where 99% don't know what a punch is he would fucking demolish them. Just like Bryan or Del Rio.

The difference between amateur fighter and non-fighter is incredibly big

>>1737724

>HHH runs NXT

Yes exactly

>>1737766
>Haitch can take care of himself in a shoot fight in the locker room.

[citation needed]

>>1737766
>Haitch beat up a drunk fan who went to the ring during his match once which mean he's a tough guy

>>1737782
>am pretty Sure CM 25 seconds Punk had a bit of a fightning background before doing wrestling.
He didn't. He started from the ground up. He couldn't even throw a jab.

>>1737787
Are you retarded? Normies dont know what NXT is, the only way you can even see the show is with WWE Network.

Vince can do anything with the wrestlers gimmick once they're on the main roster but he keeps it the same assuming what got them over with smarks on what's basically a indie show will get them over on the main roster with the casuals. It's basically Vince and creative being lazy on the main roster is what's killing wrestling. HHH has nothing to do it.later and I'm not even a fan of HHH, I'm just using common sense.

>>1737819
That fan had a knife. HHH saved Austin's life.

>>1737835

>Are you retarded?

Are you? Cause it seems you're missing a very clear point I'm making.

>>1737835
Actually, the biggest criticism of NXT gimmicks being called up IS the difference in how they're used or handled.

>>1737849
You literally have no point fag

>>1737862

You sure are getting worked up over nothing.

>>1737871
Feel free to state that point to him then

Imagine if Steph went after a guy who wasn't a giant shithead like haitch how much better things could have been.

>>1737888

Asserting that HHH has no influence on the main roster is nothing short of stupidity. Look at who the top guys/girls are, the shieldettys, four horsewomen, owens etc. These guys went through NXT

He's the one essentially hand-picking the stars of the future who go on to the main roster. They don't get over cause their gimmicks are tailored to fit to the niche Fullsail crowd who would give a reaction to him taking a dump in the middle of the ring.

Guys like Tyler Breeze, Apollo Crews and Neville don't get a reaction to casual crowds but got monster pops in NXT. So yeah HHH is running pro-wrestling into the ground cause he's the one responsible for moulding these superstars of the future and giving them gimmicks that will get over but he's more interested in reddit's fruit baskets and NXT Brooklyn cheering him on despite being a heel.

NXT is pretty much a monument to his ego.

>>1737888
There's no point, these Punk fags are in complete damage control after their hero got exposed and tapped out like a bitch last night.

>>1737921
I like how you act as if a promoter handpicking their future stars is this new phenomenon.

Every fucking new star is going to go through NXT you spud. I'd be surprised if there's anybody on the roster by 2020 who wasn't an NXT alum.

>Guys like Tyler Breeze, Apollo Crews and Neville don't get a reaction to casual crowds

So guys who get booked like shit don't get over?

You don't fucking say.

>>1737927
zach ryder is booked like shit

hes still over

>>1737937
Ryder is not over, he's a meme

>>1737926

>Punk fags

You wish pal.

>>1737927

>Every new star is going through NXT

When were AJ Styles/The Club in NXT? Oh...and what is Samoa Joe still doing in NXT when he's one of the better people on the mic?

>So guys who get booked like shit don't get over?

They were never over when they debuted, they never got over when they were given air time, and the reason they're not over is cause they have an over-reliance on "Look at me I can do wrestling moves but have no character whatsoever"

HHH is pandering to smarks who love "technical wrestling" and neglecting the vast majority who tune into the WWE for the characters. That's what I mean by tailoring things to a niche crowd.

There are more failures to come from NXT than there are success stories.

>>1737937
Ryder got big prior to receiving the most vicious burial since the InVasion, it's not the same thing.

>>1737959
Styles is an obvious exception and Gallows had been in WWE for years before this. Karl is just an outlier.

>>1737959
>They were never over when they debuted,

Who is?

>they never got over when they were given air time,

Because it wasn't promoting them.

Name an actual feud that Neville has had on the main roster, quick!

>they have an over-reliance on "Look at me I can do wrestling moves but have no character whatsoever"

You're aware that you're saying this about TYLER BREEZE right?

>There are more failures to come from NXT than there are success stories.

No shit, with Vince's awful booking.

>HHH is pandering to smarks who love "technical wrestling" and neglecting the vast majority who tune into the WWE for the characters.

MY NAME
IS EN-ZO A-MO-RE

>>1737959
You're not making sense, you say guys like Breeze, Crews and Neville got "monster pops" in NXT but not on the main roster, HHH runs NXT and has nothing to do with main roster booking so how are their failures on the main roster a flag on HHH when those guys were over on HHHs show?

The main roster panders to smarks not because of HHH but because they realise smarks are literally 90% of their demographic, the other 8% are kids and 2% are the AE fags that won't go away or accept the new WWE, they've completely lost the casual viewer and it's been that way since 2011.

>>1737992
>2011

You're about a decade off

>>1737992
>so how are their failures on the main roster a flag on HHH

Cause the emphasis over there is more on wrestling than character development. How is this hard to understand?

The main roster then becomes unwatchable cause you have these guys who are too over-reliant on their wrestling having 10 minute matches with 5 commercial breaks in between whereas in NXT they used to have 20-30 mins unhinged.

>Smarks are 90% of the demographic

You literally could not be more wrong if you tried. You're most likely also underage.

>>1737992
This. The casuals moved on to MMA nearly 10 years ago, smark neckbeards and kids are the only ppl that watch, talk about or care about the current WWE.

>>1737969

>Tyler Breeze

Why should casual viewers care about bootleg Fandango? Literally what does he even bring to the table that's new? But yeah on NXT he was wildly popular and got cheered as a heel.

>Name an actual feud Neville has had on the main roster

He had a lengthy program with Stardust.

>>1738005
You've literally never watched an episode of NXT TV in your life, have you?

>>1738033

How would I not know NXT characters if I hadn't watched NXT you muppet?

>Unironically believes WWE crowds are 90% smarks

Something is deeply wrong with you, or you're just one of the dumb trolls that lurk here 24/7.

>>1738027
Breeze is a much better promo & worker than Fandango.

>implying that Fandango invented the fabulous heel gimmick

>He had a lengthy program with Stardust.

I completely forgot about this and Neville has been my boy since late 2013.

Which says all you need to know about how memorable it was.

>>1738054
Aside from a few, most NXT characters stay the same when they're moved up to the main roster. Just bc you know some gimmick that doesn't mean you've watched liar

>>1738054
You might wanna try your opening statement again.

Also, I'm not stats guy.

>>1738057
>Breeze is a much better promo & worker than Fandango.

As shown by how much crowd reaction he gets right? Heath Slater has not wrestled more than 10 minutes this year, and he's the most over man on the roster.

Character, not "technical wrestling", that's what casual crowds care about. This is a boring circular argument anyway that doesn't achieve anything other than you trying to defend HHH while claiming "you dont really even like him"

This is the guy who literally booked himself to main event his 7th wrestlemania this year.

>>1738073
Remember when Breeze got weeks of TV segments dedicated solely to advancing his character?

Yeah, thought so.

>technical wrestling
>Tyler Breeze

You're an idiot.

>>1738054
Casual don't watch WWE unless it's Mania season and even then they only go to actual live show itself, hardcore smarks and kids are the only ones that watch 2-3 hours of shit week to week.

>>1738086
>Remember when Breeze got weeks of TV segments dedicated solely to advancing his character?

Yeah I remember him getting a 2-3 month long program with Dolph Ziggler. Still couldn't get a reaction of any sort, even with Summer Rae as his valet.

Your memory is clearly selective since you can't even remember rudimentary stuff that's not even over a year old.

>You're an idiot

Stay pressed pal.

>>1738057
Neville's my boy too, but his program with Stardust was awful. They basically booked him to stand in the ring watching Stardust rant on the titanatron for god knows how many months, and then made him put an actor over at summerslam.

It's a shame, because I feel the crowd are ready to to invest in Neville as a decent upper-midcard face, they just need a proper storyline for him to get his teeth into and show that he actually has character.

>>1738096
>months-long feud with post-cuck angle Ziggler

What an opportunity!

And yeah, shame on me for not remembering mediocre WWE TV from last year.

>>1738104

You're saying, "Hurr they just haven't gotten an opportunity" then when I bring up an example of them being featured for "weeks on weeks" you say it sucked as if that somehow nullifies the point.

>mediocre WWE TV from last year.

Hands down one of the worst years for pro-wrestling since 1995, and also the one that featured the most NXT call-ups.

>All this saltiness spawned cause I said HHH is killing wrestling

>>1738100
They should just do a re-take of his feud w/ Graves in NXT

>Graves

;_;

>>1738112
I'm not salty at you at all, sport. In fact I'm more than a little incredulous over how mad you're getting because WWE has a developmental.

Did you bitch about OVW in the mid-2000s?

Meaningless programs with not-over scrubs are not "opportunities".

>>1738117

>Comparing OVW to NXT

Just keep outting yourself as underage even more huh? I'm the one who's mad? Didn't you start calling me a fag cause I insulted precious HHH?

>Opportunities

Maybe prove you're an asset to the company more than being bootleg Fandango, but of course you can't do that cause 2016 WWE is literally unwatchable unless you're a masochist, and it's unwatchable because of wrestlers with no character being called up to fill up spots and be all around terrible to the point that arenas turn into libraries and television ratings keep dropping. But what do I know? HHH and Vince clearly are in charge here, and they have their faithful shills to back them up online even in the face of irrationality.

>>1738112
Well obviously HHH isn't killing it enough to make your autistic ass stop watching.

HHH isnt going anywhere m8. I'm giving you the choice right now, you can get a clue and stop watching a show you're gonna bitch about which in return will allow you to take a shower, hit the weights and seek female companionship OR you can shut the fuck up and continue to watch the WWE and take it in the ass from HHH. I believe we all know you'll choose the later.

>>1738133
Which developmental would you have preferred me to namedrop?

FCW? DSW? PPW? HWA? USWA?

>Maybe prove you're an asset

So in order to get opportunities to prove himself he should prove himself? Uhm...

Fandango still didn't invent the gimmick of fabulous heel either, young boy.

>no character

AND THIS RIGHT HERE
THIS IS BIG CASS

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>>1737693
Lol, the Rock was twice as big as him. Punk is skinny fat.

>>1738164
How did you manage to pick the worst possible quality of image? Remarkable.

All you fags that think HHH killed/is killing wrestling need to seek sunlight.

Just imagine RA era without HHH.....

Now you objectively know that he's best for business.

>>1738191
>ra without hhh

So smackdown? Fucking retarded underage fags on this board. 18+

>>1738191
>imagine the RA without HHH

So...you mean like Heyman's Smackdown?

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the Ruthless Aggression Era without Triple H....hmm....

>>1738198
>>1738199
Didn't draw a dime, WWE would be out of business by now if HHH didn't carry the company through the RA era until he put Cena over at WM22

>>1738207
This..someone with some sense on here

>>1738207
The one time smackdown actually outdrew raw

18+

>>1738207
Smackdown was outdrawing RAW back then

>>1738215
Citation needed

>>1738219
No it wasn't, do you ppl ever look shit up to see if it's fact b4 posting?

>>1738220
WWE themselves admit it on the Heyman DVD

The Nielsen ratings are publicly available

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>>1738228
Do you ever type like an adult?

>>1738241
That's a fake chart

>>1738241
RA era lasted longer than 8 months, learn to count

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>>1737782
You know ADR did maa right?
>implying practicing meme fighting styles would help him out in a street fight

>>1738243
>denial

>>1738245
Heyman was replaced as booker after this timeframe.

>>1738241
You do know Raw talent was still on SD until the end of 2002 right? When the split officially happened Raw took over the ratings and never lost again.

Punk is a fucking faggot. That piece of shit Teddy Hart kicked his ass, Jay Lethal fucked his old lady and now Mickey Gall fucked him too. Next he'll be raising a black baby like Cuck Hardy. Fuck him.

>>1738256
The rosters were frozen after the Summer. That's still a good solid 5 months of Smackdown eating RAW's lunch.

>>1738270
>Smackdowncucks celebrating 5 months of success

kek

Once Stephenie became SD gm in 2003 SD got its ass kicked by Bischoff/HHH and Raw every week

>>1738295
5 months over "the flagship show" of HHH while Smackdown built around those "vanilla midgets".

>>1738299
Heyman was no longer booking after Feb 2003

>>1738305
HHH wasn't the champ during those 5 months

>>1738311
This. HBK was the WHC champ

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>>1738311
Umm...

>>1737493
CM Punk by far. He threw away ever bit of good will he's ever given to wrestling last night.

>>1737493
H is one of the most successful wrestlers ever.
Punk is an outspoken whiny bitch.
I don't think either have hurt wrestling though

>>1737493
Punk essentially created the whole 'smarks are relevant and need to be heard' argument. He validated every smark's opinion on how the company should be run and thats why we have so many 'wrestling reviewers' like JDFromNY who think they know shit.

>>1737652
Not defending the reign of terror, it was fucking awful, but a lot of people don't take in consideration that Austin retired and The Rock left wrestling for acting so the company was in serious problems. Two of its biggest stars left more or less at the same time so Triple H carried the company for a while. It could be done better though

The pipe bomb is the reason squared circle was created, giving birth to a new generation of smark idiots

HHH has had a couple of bad ME feuds and has otherwise been responsible for signing a lot of good talent

>>1737720
No, but his pipebomb invented a hybrid of smarks that still get worked like regular marks

Neither of them did damage to pro-wrestling. At most they did slight damage to WWE, and even that's arguable.
Note that I'm not defending either of them. They both suck.

Neither of these guys damaged wrestling but the way you guys get anally devestated over HHH is ridiculous. Did he pull strings backstage to get what he wanted? Yes. Just like every other main eventer ever. He just did it better than everyone else. There's also that whole NXT thing and the fact that guys like Zayne and Owens would NEVER have been brought to the WWE if it was up to Vince and his yes men stooges.