KENDO VS FENCING

>>1669216
>Which do you prefer?
kendo
>if you had to choose one, which would it be?
same question as the first one
>which do you think would be more viable in a real swordfight?
both have some equally retarded rules but id wager fencing would be better since it evolved from a system dedicated to dueling while kendo came from a system of trying to preserve cultural rituals.

fencing would be the winner in a duel against kendo because its faster, longer, and more mobile

kendo is the more practical real world martial art because using those moves to bash someones head in with a cane or a plank of wood will translate better than prodding them with one hand like you would fencing

it's a matter of thrusting vs slicing, and slicing translates to bashing much more readily

>>1669216
>edgy 2h vs dexfag

estoc bestoc

>>1669216
Fencing, fencing, fencing (epee in particular).

>>1669216
I would prefer kendo, if I had to use one in a sword fight I would say kendo.

Kendo preserves actual swordsmanship within its larger curriculum, and the rules are slightly less retarded, since they keep it from being a game of tag

>>1671775
>Kendo preserves actual swordsmanship within its larger curriculum, and the rules are slightly less retarded, since they keep it from being a game of tag
a "game of tag" is swordsmanship you moron. those tags are what killed people in actual duels

>>1671863
And while the fencer manages to poke the kendoka, maybe damaging something vital and killing him during the next few hours, a sword drops on his head immediately afterwards and he dies right there. Good job "winning".

>>1671863
If you think taping a person with a sword a half second before they do the exact same to you is winning swordsmanship then more power to you.

But even a thrust to a non vital area is no guarantee of a end to the fight, Ive watch videos of epee duels and to their credit they are somewhat similar to modern fencing, bu they almost invariable ended with someone getting a cut on their arm, thus the debt of honor was settled. Compared to a duel to the death the difference is quite obvious

>>1672028
This is the issue, the kendoka might die later on, but but the guy with his head split open isnt going home either

>>1671058
wouldn't sabre be more viable than the epee considering it also counts slashes and not just stabs?

>>1672028
>>1673096
i think you're both overlooking the fact that a stab/slice to the throat is gonna incapacitate the kendoka pretty quickly

>>1673670
yes a slice to the throat is pretty deadly, but once a sword is swung the momentum is unlikely to stop even if the guy holding it is run through.

on the modern sabre Ive even heard modern teachers say that the modern saber does not cut with enough power to reliably disable someone, its all about scoring the point. That isnt to say a classical saber swung in the classical manner would not split a man open. we are talking about the modern sport

the throat is not the easiest target to hit. and being stabbed is not always fatal, certainly not instantly.

>>1669216
here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CSrUrfA98

as you can see, the fencer is merely toying with the kendoka the whole time, kendo is all about form and power while fencing focuses on being agile and fast with little regard for stance.

tldr dexfaggotry is op and needs to be nerfed

>>1673670
Epee form has more pressure applied to it, an epeeist would kill the weeaboo by just making little slashes at their wrists/arms until they couldn't hold their folded 10000 times nippon steel blade anymore.

>>1673774
what would happen is they would skewer the kendoka right before their head was split open. The kendoka would be taken to the hospital and probably survive unless they got unlucky

In full accoutrement of their respective sports and assuming equal skill, the kendoka will win a no rules encounter due to blunt strikes.

If we're are talking about sword on sword, the kendoka will win if he knows how to teleport behind and unsheathe his katana

>>1672028
>>1673096
>>1673708
you people have no idea what youre talking about, katana through the skull... do you fucking idiots really think a katana downwards slash has the same range as a thrust from a sword thats one thirds longer?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2wLZBUEi4
educate yourselves

>>1674016
t. someone who has never fenced in their life

>>1674174
a rapier and an epee are not the same thing anon.

>>1674182
And have you ever done kendo?

>>1674016
>what would happen is they would skewer the kendoka right before their head was split open
What would happen is the kendoka gets stabbed in the neck and at best his sword manages to get lucky and hit the narrow target that is the fencers arm/shoulder, but most likely it just hits empty air. Either way the fencer is better off.

A kendo stick doesn't have the range to get close to the head of someone in a sideways fencing stance with their arm completely outstretched in a thrusting stab.

>>1675400

How do u teleport once you have the katana unsheathed

>>1675403
With your heart and soul, anon.

Break through the limits infront of you, for your friends.

>>1675125
A shinai isn't the same thing as a japanese sword either, they are typically 20cm longer for a start.

>>1669216

Depends on the weapon Fencing grew out of Smallsword and could skills
Learned could easily be transferred to that weapon even probably a Rapier with enough conditioning other than that:
Kendo.

The muscles engaged translate much better to wielding a legitimate weapon other than the aforementioned better than sport fencing. It's more defensive as well.

As far as studying an actual martial art perhaps with the attention of training a less gamified weapons art later on they're probably about the same as both are great for teaching the basics and principles often to crazy detailed levels.

Foil is suicidal and every attack and every strike from an Epeeist or Sabreur seem like probing actions. When a Kendo strikes lands they really follow through.

You could easily consider Kendo two handed fencing and not be far wrong.

Oh and as an addendum there is as much thrusting in Kendo as there is strong cutting actions in Fencing.

Both of them mechanically a far cry from their original form.

>>1673744
That's not quite the fair test it might seem. The fencer has his range advantage and a weapon made for darting around an opponents. (Much more so than a real Sabre). One much too flexible for the Kendoka to be able to effectively set aside which is what he keeps trying to do.

The Kendokas attempts to close in aggressively may look a bit lame but they're actually not bad considering it's always easier to retreat out of distance than enter for a point in any weapon sport.

All that video proves is a lighter one handed weapon is better than a similar length two handed one in a duel but the evolutionary tree of European sword development already proves that. China too to a lesser extent (the Dadao survived to the finish albeit that being much longer than its one handed peers) and anywhere that cultural heritage had a lesser impact on sword use.

Not hating on fencing at all but the Fencer holds all the cards there.

>>1675535
Actually that was the point of your post ignore me.

Both sports have serious shortcomings when it comes down to teaching people to fight with swords. Here are two glaring ones among many:
The first big problem is that they don't teach you to survive a fight. It's pretty safe to say that the logical conclusion to most epee round, were they done with actual smallswords, would end with both guys getting run through. Other forms of fencing and kendo also are serious offenders in this regard, but perhaps not to the same degree as epee.
Your primary objective in a sword fight is to avoid getting hit. In a self defence scenario, if you can parry some blows and flee the scene, you've completed your objective.

The second is the lack of test-cutting, that is the practice of hitting targets with an actual sharp sword.
It takes a lot of practice to reliably cut something when under pressure. There are some hilarious examples in HEMA where dudes who supposedly are experts at sparring miserably fail to cut through even a single tatami mat because they never practiced it, so all their expertise at hitting their opponent wouldn't matter because they would miserably fail at actually injuring them.

Fencing. How is this even a debate? Fencing has so many forms and weapons that it's great for all situations. It has a long history and has been proven to work in actual combat.

>>1675583
I should perhaps note that I'm not dissing HEMA. Test cutting is a vital part of proper HEMA practice.

>>1675470
epee were a sword in their own right and used in duels. They were not substitutes for rapiers like a shinai is for a katana.

modern epee fencing is of course only somewhat related to epee dueling, tagging someone without much force will most likely not deliver a fatal or disabling blow. a proper kendo strike or stab would deliver a much deeper wound.

>>1675535
The kendoka doesnt look particularly good to me

>>1675630
>>1675583

HEMA is just retarded larping

prove me wrong

File: 1401559362435.jpg (34KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 500x500px

>>1675727
wiktenauer.com/wiki/Treatises

>>1675727
i can't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-eHZydEhJ4

>>1675583
>There are some hilarious examples in HEMA where dudes who supposedly are experts at sparring miserably fail to cut through even a single tatami mat because they never practiced it, so all their expertise at hitting their opponent wouldn't matter because they would miserably fail at actually injuring them.
can you show these examples? tatami mats have always been super easy to cut through

>>1675720
>tagging someone without much force will most likely not deliver a fatal or disabling blow
you seriously underestimate how easily human flash would puncture with a sharp sword. youalso dont understand how a mere 10cm wound can be fatal

>>1675727
poor trolling attempt

Just a general doubt to fencingfags here since this was the first thread with the subject I've seen popping up. Is late twenties too late to start learning? I don't intend to go to competitions or anything just do it for fun, but considering I will be studying full time I will probably be able to start after I finish Uni. Thanks in advance

>>1676655
there are fencers all the way from 10 years old up to their 70s, it's never too late to start

>>1676664
That's a relief, thank you anon

>>1676666
no problem, nice quads

>>1676015
I understand both those things, what you dont understand is just how much abuse the human body can take before it shuts down completely.

The wound can be much more shallow than 10cm and kill, it can also be much deeper and fail to kill, at least not right away. It depends on where the cut/thrust lands, and the will power of the individual in question, some people will freeze up after a minor cut, others will keep fighting until their body shuts down

stabbing or cutting someone who is already cutting or preparing to is a double kill, in which case it does not matter who hit first. If you dont deliver a death dealing or incapacitating blow, then you will be killed on the next beat.