Who drew more money and who's the bigger legend between the two?

>>1611531
Bret

Bret

Ric drew more money and is a bigger legend, but Bret was always the better wrestler

flair since he was ontop in wcw well...right under NWO but still!

>>1611531
Bret

>>1611531
Flair drew more

>>1611548
This is the only right answer.

Ric at times single-handedly carried dying promotions, Bret almost killed a successful multi million dollar promotion when he had the ball.

>>1611565
Actually, Bret saved the WWF. HBK and Diesel were the ones that almost killed it.

>Making this thread when bretcuck isn't posting

could have had 50 replies already

Objectively Ric Flair

>>1611572
Saved? how? proof? facts show Nash's PPV numbers were bigger than Bret's championship reign.

>>1611531
Flair

>>1611572
Bret leaving wwf to wcw helped, his over paid contract leaving the wwf turned the tide that's the only way Bret helped

>For Ric Flair to say that I wasn’t a draw is just plain ridiculous. I’m
very sure that I sold enough tickets throughout my career. Who is he kidding?
Everyone knows that most of the time WCW wrestlers worked in front of empty chairs in empty arenas. All one has to do is watch Flair’s DVD to see the empty seats and the exact same match with every opponent, whatever their shape or size.

After Vince made him redo his SNME match his days were numbered in
the WWF because he clearly wasn’t what he was cracked up to be. Six weeks later Flair was told to lose the belt to me in Saskatoon on October 12, 1992. As
I understood it, Flair declined putting me over on TV, despite the fact
that he himself had just told me that Wembley was the best match he’d ever
seen ! Let alone that I was the biggest draw the WWF had in Europe and all the foreign markets, consistently main eventing in front of, not sold out
buildings, but entirely sold out tours! And I had a very strong following in
North America too.

>>1611584
Wolfcucktv pls.

>Things quickly accelerated from bad to worst, the company losing more money than it was making. Such was Nash's inability as a draw that Bret Hart actually ended up making more in royalties than Nash did over the Diesel title reign period. The ship very nearly sank with Nash manning the helm.
>The drop off in pay per view business was at its very hardest. Wrestlemania lost 80,000 buyers from the previous year, Summerslam 95,000 buys down and Survivor Series 95 posted 128,000 buys - down from 254,00 in 1994. That marked the end of Diesel as champion, jobbing the title to Bret Hart on that November night. Everything had gone down in his run - ticket sales, ppv buys, merchandise.

>As the only champion to nearly bankrupt the company, Nash is way out in front on this list. It's amazing that the WWF kept the title on him so long when you think about it, although on paper this big man worker should have worked

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>>1611572
>Bret saved WWF
I didn't think /asp/ was this stupid

>>1611584
>>1611652

We've been through this before on the board.

Bret was handed the belt at some of the toughest times, including as Hogan quit the company. He was able to stop the buy rates bottoming out completely and reversed the struggling WWF on three separate occasions.

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>>1611648
Meltzer holds a terrible bias against Nash.

Look at the numbers, nash did well in his period. Bret literally made zero difference during his title reign.

>>1611531
http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/RAWisWAR/WWFBuyRates.html

>>1611776
Erm, wasnt Nash champion for most of 95? Look at your image again then stop posting.

>>1611776
>RR93, Bret was champ
>WM93, Bret headlined
>KotR93, Bret won, Yoko was champ
>SS93, Lex and Yoko headlined
>SSe93, Yoko and Lex feud headlined

Yoko and Lex don't seem to be draws

>RR94, Yoko was champ, Bret and Lex co-winners
>WM94, Bret headlined and won
>KotR94, Diesel beats Bret
>SS94, Bret is co-main event with Owen
>SSe94, Bret is champ but doesn't headline

As you can see, numbers are steady or up over 93, and Bret carried the whole year. The WWF did the best out of these four years when Bret was on top.

>RR95, Diesel is champ
>WM95, Diesel is champ
>KotR95, Diesel is champ
>SS95, Diesel is champ
>SSe95, Diesel is champ

Buyrates down bigtime for the whole year with Diesel at the top. Clearly not a draw. Horrible numbers.

>RR96, Bret was champ
>WM96, HBK and Bret main event
>KotR96, HBK is champ
>SS96, HBK is champ
>SSe96, HBK is champ

Better draw than Diesel, but HBK couldn't do business like Bret.


As you can see, Bret DID make a difference as champ, the ppvs did their biggest numbers when he was on top. Diesel on the other hand drove the business into the ground.

>>1611870
Someone needs to turn this post into an image so whenever this extremely common argument rears its head it can get BTFO straightaway

>>1611870
Including 1992 figures would look even better for Bret. He headlined the biggest crowd SummerSlam has ever had and SSe92 (with Bret defending the championship in the ME) did better business than any of the others listed.

The TV numbers tell a similar story.

>Ric couldn't sell out stadiums and at one point, neither WWF or WCW wanted him
>Bret's buy rates and ratings were the best at the time of a utterly failed business and cultural interest

Not even a fan of the bitter fuck, but Bret is and was the bigger draw. He also helps by not attempting to return as often, where as Flair has just been pissing all over his legacy.

Flair was always a B+ player

He was the star of the second rate promotion which only became No.1 once they shoved him out of the limelight

>>1611918
>Ric couldn't sell out stadiums
Flair headlined the largest live crowd in wrestling history in '95, when he was well past his peak.

>>1611925
>I've never heard of the NWA
Good for you, kid!

>>1611548
>implying wrestling actually matters
Everyone knows wrestling is fake and have since the 90s (at least on such a huge level)
It's about who puts asses in seats and Ric did it a lot better than Bret

>>1611957
>Flair headlined the largest live crowd in wrestling history in '95, when he was well past his peak.

lmao

>The all-time pro wrestling attendance record would be for shows on April 28 and April 29, 1995 at May Day Stadium in Pyongyang, North Korea. The announced crowds for those shows were 165,000 and 190,000, although the real numbers were about 150,000 and 165,000. The first show was headlined by Scott Norton vs. Shinya Hashimoto and the second by Antonio Inoki vs. Ric Flair. While there were tickets sold, most of the people attending got in free, and were pretty much ordered to attend, so it’s not really a fair comparison.

Even le meltz, Flair's biggest fan knows thats a joke

>>1611870
You're getting Bret off on a bunch of technicalities. If a talent is a top star of a era, the era doesn't end up being one the lowest ever in history, at the very least. The numbers aren't all that different to claim he was draw at all.

>>1611966
>I'm going to refute your claim by providing a source for it. You're right, so there!
Never change, /asp/.

>>1612073
So Scott Norton was a huge draw too I guess, good to know

>>1612073
>While there were tickets sold, most of the people attending got in free, and were pretty much ordered to attend, so it’s not really a fair comparison

You and Hornswaggle could have gotten sent there and did the same number

>>1611531
Ric

this is not even close

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And let's keep in mind the full length of Ric's run, including his appearances at Wrestlemania's 18 and 24 where he was in marquee matches in front of absolutely massive crowds.

>>1613399
>marquee matches
>18

Nobody gave a fuck about anything on that card besides Hogan/Rock

>>1613402
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>1613416
lmao, that whole show was built around Hogan/Rock. The posters, the go home show ending with Hogan pinning Rock, the amount of time nWo segments got. Nobody gave a shit about anything else on the card, and nobody does now.

If people remember anything about 18 besides Hogan/Rock, it's maybe AA's spinebuster and nobody knew he would even show up in the match

>>1611531
Ric
Ric

Flair and it isn't even close. He was main eventing shows for 5 decades and is on everyone's short list for GWOAT.

Not to take anything away from Bret but Flair is in a league all by himself.

>>1613423
Advertising != the match people cared about

Everybody was kind of sour on Hulk and Rock at the time until the match actually started. Then they realized the magic of what was actually going to take place and the crowd got really hot.

Anyway, any time Ric or Undertaker are on a big card there will be a great deal of people who will tune in just to see them. When you've got a match between the two that number is going to go up even further. If you think their presence at WM that year didn't sell its fair chunk of PPV buys you're crazy.

>>1613445
>Everybody was kind of sour on Hulk and Rock at the time

No, smarks were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7N8IBanV88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORm3TqKqo78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXuKrXzv_5I#t=12m30

Hogan was over as fuck everywhere, and Rock held is own in places too (the original confrontation). That's what everyone bought it for outside of maybe 50 smarks

>>1613457
The wrestling fanbase was still different back then. You could have mid-card matches that would sell a PPV for people because they cared about that feud. People bought PPVs because a favorite wrestler was going to appear on it regardless of position in the card. It wasn't like it is now where only the main event matters.

People wanted to see Hogan vs Austin, and that's what they thought they were getting at first when the NWO came around.

Yes, I would say the thing that drove sales of WM 18 more than anything was simply seeing Hogan again in a one on one match at Wrestlemania (in Toronto no less). Rock played his role too(!), but it was more an 80/20 thing of Hogan/Rock. Rock was sort of given a one-night-only pass for everybody not being sick of him at that point.

>>1611531

One was the main draw of a company which went bankrupt, the other wasn't. You do the math.

>>1613488
m8 Rock was still extremely over

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3kwzth?GK_FACEBOOK_OG_HTML5=1

Yes the smarks were tired of him, everyone else wasn't until it became he started appearing in and out more and then they just turned completely on him for Lesnar. Around WM18? He was still over, he just got booed in the lead up because it was Hogan. In the confrontation where they make the match it was like 60-40 him and he got a pop for Rock Bottoming Hogan

>>1611531

Ric flair has only been a draw for people born in the pre and 80s, Bret was a 90s guy, who had to deal with the first marks quickly starting to chose rock, austin and shawn over him. Also Benoit and Guerrero were bigger draws than both at this time.

>>1613498
*until it became apparent

Rock got turned on when he left for a little then came back and won the belt again at Vengeance, at that point it was "fuck this guy". He was still over before

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>>1611909
Here you go senpai.

Both werent draws. Rick performed in small half empty venues in redneck land. While Bret was headling WWF shows when they are were at the lowest and doing shows in tents and highschool gyms

>>1613457
It's pretty amazing how over Hogan was in his last run. Both as Hollywood and when he went face again. So much so that they even gave him one last world title win just because.

I would argue Hogan was the most liked wrestler at this time by fans.

>>1613544
He definitely was, even in 2003 he got a ten minute standing ovation when he returned

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1b5f_wwe-smackdown-2003-hulk-hogan-retur_news

It even goes through the commercial break, crazy.