How do we fix Kung Fu?

give him a cool gimmick

>>1586852
Go back like 100 years and prevent modern popular culture.

>>1586852
>How do we fix Kung Fu?
Sanda/Sanshou is pretty much set.

Nothing. Wing Chun is an amazing style of kickboxing.

What we need to fix are all the instructors selling snake oil. Kung Fu needs a governing body like Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, etc. to ensure the legitimacy of instructors.

>>1586948
>wing chun is amazing
>talks about snake oil

lol, even Bruce lee, the guy who made wing chun as popular as it is, denounced it later in life.

>>1587162
sauce?

>>1586852
fix it for what? what is your goal, if your goal is to compete than just start adapting to sanshou.

>>1586852
In the eyes of the martial arts community? More schools need to incorporate sanshou and shuai jiao into their training regiment. Forms are an effective way to learn the basics of techniques and combinations, but competition leads to innovation.

Focus less on the mystical qi shit and the quakery, while focusing more on sanda/sanshou and shuaijiao.

>>1586852
get rid of the vanilla midgets

>>1587178
>I'd gotten into a fight in San Francisco with a Kung-Fu cat, and after a brief encounter the son-of-a-bitch started to run. I chased him and, like a fool, kept punching him behind his head and back. Soon my fists began to swell from hitting his hard head. Right then I realized Wing Chun was not too practical and began to alter my way of fighting.

Bruce Lee, after his fight with Wong jack man.

>>1586948
>Nothing. Wing Chun is an amazing style of kickboxing.
This guy knows what's up.

>>1586948
>>1587259
Whatever you say, man

https://youtu.be/v7KxuDYfpSQ

>>1587274
Those are some sicks moves! I don't care how effective is as combat art, as long as the panties keep flying on the floor

>>1587318
>doing anything to "get girls"
>not living yourself and doing what you want to do

Cuck

>>1587274
It's not my fault you can't understand why what you're implying is wrong.

>>1586852
Chinese martial arts as a whole are antiquated. Most of the movements are made for weaponry and war, not really single person combat. How efficient could you be in war if you focused only on hand to hand combat? Not only are they not made for sports combat, they aren't practiced nearly as hard as they were. So having an antiquated system combined with lazy snake oil practitioners (at least in the west) created a form of combat that is unweldly.

Of course the one thing you have to consider about the Chinese arts is the habit of secrecy and having high level masters in normal attire hiding their skills and passing them on to certain students. Culturally the Chinese believe in not revealing everything they know. What you believe is ineffective could just not have been passed down for a reason. But this is also conjecture.

For western kung fu, is to go back and time and make bruce lee lose the rematch. Only way senpai. Outsiders would of not had as much interest in it. It remains a strict and pure lineage.

>>1587330
This guy gets it

>>1586948
Wing chun kung fu has governing bodies and they are shit. All they do is bicker with each other.

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>>1587491
>>1586948
Its also regulated by people challenging dojos and such, many dojos were shut down because of such fights

>>1587330
>doing what you want to do

What if what I want in life is to fuck as many girls as possible, and having some funky moves to serve other guys on the dance floor?

>>1588292
>What if what I want in life is to fuck as many girls as possible, and having some funky moves to serve other guys on the dance floor?
That'd be pretty shallow, Anon. It'd make me sad, and feel sorry about your whole life, both the past and what it is to become.

>>1586852

Put them in MMA competitions against other well rounded fighters from clubs, who wants to win.

In the beginning they will lose all the time, then they will adapt. That is how you fix it.

>>1587363
No, an art focusing on strikes is not made for war. unarmed battlefield stuff is almost all grappling because of armor.

Now its true many kung fu systems contained sword and spear which would be useful in warfare, but this does not mean that warfare was the arts primary purpose.

>>1589074
>grappling in a war

Grappling is the last thing you want to do in a war, you aren't aware of your surroundings and vital strikes can be used. You can get your ear bitten off trying to get someone into a triangle or something

>>1589423
Obviously it has to be adjusted from the bjj/judo of today. simple joint locks and throws would immobilize an armored warrior much quicker than the vast majority of striking techniques.

how are you going to strike vital points through armor? Are you aware that battlefield systems of grappling have been preserved from those days? And what makes you think a grapplier cannot be aware of their surroundings?

>>1589503

>So let me spare you a few hundred dollars in martial arts classes and give you my #1 secret to surviving a vicious ground fight? Ok, ready? Here it is...get off the freakin' ground!

>Your options at this point are to get in an eye gouge or other close combat technique with your free hand

At this point you can eye gouge, crush their testicles ect. Also the Kung fu people train in things like grip strength, jaw strength and such

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/close-quarters-combat/secret-to-surviving-ground-fight

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-9-dirtiest-and-most-effective-hand-to-hand-combat-moves-2015-8

>>1586860
>100 years
I'd say more like go back 50 and prevent the Chinese government from trying to spread it and make it a big thing.

Honest question that I didn't think deserved a thread (but may make one at some point anyway):

Assuming you don't intend on using Kung Fu for actual combat, what would it be good for?

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>>1589711
I heard the chinese government was against bruce lee though, which is wierd because for many bruce lee represents chinese pride

>>1589721
I'm sure they were, but it wasn't because of his martial arts. It was more because he was a symbol of capitalism (hugely popular actor more or less profiting off of Chinese culture).

China tried to homogenize all forms of Chinese Martial Arts into a single form called Wushu (while using it as a tool to disseminate Maoist philosophy) and control and disseminate it.

I'd say the problems with CMA started when the PRC was founded, which was when all the traditional martial artists either fled the country or went into hiding.

>>1586852
>How do we fix Kung Fu?
Stop getting white people (actually, all people in general) from saying their credentials are being of a student of a student of a student of Ip Man's nephew. That's not a qualification. Also, I only added the "white" part because I find the concept of a person branding themselves "Master Leibowicz" or "Sifu Appleby" and them being a pudgy white bread middle-class 40 year old in a small town profiting off of yokels' ignorance and distance from people with actual knowledge mildly amusing

>>1589710
Grappling is any body to body fighting style that involves locks or throws, it doesnt only refer to groundwork, which is a subset of grappling.

Of course wearing twenty to fifty pounds of armor people avoided going to the ground, they still used throws and joint locks.

Rather than try to gouge eyes a dagger to any gap in the armor would be much more reliable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt1AiyTh11g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2QzjjTvqog

>>1589828
Ill add that arms length stuff is also jujutsu, as long as its throwing, pinning, and locking

>>1589719
>combat

Why do people use this term around here? Just say fighting, or kumite, or self defense.

>>1589710
If only a kung fu guy and a grappler fought. I guess it's never happened or we could settle this question. It's not like any grappler here on this forum has ever been willing to answer the challenge of one or more kung fu guys on this board....hmmmmm

>>1589828
Ill say in war the last thing you want is to be tangling with anyone. Another thing you don't want is to be too close to them, you mentioned a dagger that is another reason too. You have people trained at concealing and using weapons you dont want to be in range of them at all. Also from the military.com link I posted Ill quote another reason why

>Every single fight I've seen that went to the ground did NOT end up with a happy ending. If there are any friends around of the guy you're defending against and you end up on the bottom, chances are you're about to see the rubber soles of a half dozen size 11 boots coming toward your head like a freight train.

>Even worse...when you're on top and WINNING the fight, you can expect a bottle or chair to come crashing on your head...to be followed immediately by a half dozen rubber soles coming toward your head like a freight train.

>>1589939
Because self-defense is different from sport, so combat is a catch-all phrase to define "being hit". I have also never heard the phrase kumite used outside of Pootie Tang and references to Pootie Tang. Why does a simple word trigger you?

>>1589943
Well its said Bruce Lee fought a mongolian wrestler named Lau Dai Chun

http://www.geocities. ws/jimmy900_uk/12 things.htm

>>1589944
And again, they grip and angle themselves to specifically take weapons into account. The guy who goes to the ground is expected to lose

If it didn't work then why is it ubiquitous in both Japanese and European martial arts at the time?

Almost all strikes are ineffective against armored enemies,

>>1589961
That is not true many kung fu and karate people train to break more than just human bone they train to break stone, steel, endure heat. Bruce lee and other kung fu masters poke holes through soda cans you are underestimating striking. Thousands of pounds being pushed on you is going to hurt, disorient and move you.

>>1589977
are you comparing a thin layer of aluminum to steel armor. people break their hands punching a normal head. You punch a steel helmet and you will hurt yourself a lot more than you hurt the guy wearing it.

If a steel dagger or truncheon cannot hurt someone through armor your fist sure has hell cant

>>1589954
I don't think my question implied I was triggered. Perhaps you're triggered from spending too much time arguing with people on 4chan. All I'm saying is it's a silly use of the word, typically used to refer to large entities in war. Fighting is easily more appropriate, as is kumite, sparring, or self defense if you're being more specific. Sorry for triggering you.

>>1589944
>Every single fight I've seen that went to the ground did NOT end up with a happy ending.

I'm always amazed how this isn't common sense to people. Look, I believe if you can only train in one martial art, it should be Judo, but going to the ground in a real fight is a huge no-no.

>>1589982
>thin layer of aluminum

You need to research more because that is totally incorrect.

>Single plates of metal armour were again used from the late 13th century on, to protect joints and shins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour

What you want is blunt trauma to the head to take them out. Kicks can get this job done while not wasting your time on one enemy. While you are getting a guy in a lock people can kill you.

>>1589994
>I'm not triggered! You're triggered!
You know what, this is neither the time, nor the place for this, so I'm just gonna go ahead and say whatever, bro.

Also, why use the phrase "kumite" at all when both combat, or, if you prefer, fighting is simpler and much more widely understood? Kumite is only used for karate, or if you have a loose definition,grappling in martial arts. Fighting refers to any conflict.

>>1590004
>Bruce lee and other kung fu masters poke holes through soda cans you are underestimating striking.

soda cans are not like plate armor.

>high kick to the head
>in armor.
This is perhaps the stupidest non-ironic tactic Ive ever heard here. High kicks are low percentage even in unarmored mma fights. they would leave you incredibly open to any weapon attack, and with twenty pounds of armor on you, horribly vulnerable to unbalancing, if you could even do that while wearing your armor.

Like I said before, they take pains in armored grappling to minimize the chance of getting stabbed, its a bit different from judo or bjj,

If this stuff didn't work why was it used all around the world?

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>>1590010
Well you answered my question to no one in particular like a dickhead, so okay, I'll agree to whatever. Pic related is google image results for "fighting" and "combat." Why would someone use Kung Fu in the scenarios depicted in the bottom pictures? Hmm good question.

Yes, the meaning of kumite should be common knowledge given this is a martial arts thread.

>>1586852
get someone to replace David Carridine, i don't think he's available

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>>1590054
10/10

>>1590042
>soda cans are not like plate armor.

I was using that to show that they train the physical very hard and they can compete with hard surfaces. And Plate Armor is not end all be all.

>high kicks are bad

High kicks can leave you open yes but they can work and kicks in general mid kicks mostly can be life saving. A good thai kick or side kick straight to the solar plexus or chest can send people flying and weather he has armor or not he is going to be hurt and on the ground. Kicks are your safest bet.

>If this stuff didn't work why was it used all around the world?

Many systems are used all around the world and conclusively it is said that keeping your distance and being a strong powerful quick striker is your safest bet

>>1590051
Because striking combat is still necessary thats why they teach it to the marines. Its good to have a base, you never know when your gun is jammed or you get captured, who knows

>>1590051
Combat is almost never used singularly, it's usually qualified either with "armed combat" or "hand to hand combat", the latter being more widely used.

Also, if your best source for the definition of a word is Google Images then we're done here. Now here are 3 official definitions for combat:

Merriam-Webster: combat- a fight or contest between individuals or groups
American Heritage Dictionary: combat- To oppose in battle; fight against.
Cambridge Dictionary: 1.Fighting between armed forces
2. Combat is also a fight between two people or things

The Oxford dictionary delves into depth of the origins of the word: Mid 16th century (originally denoting a fight between two persons or parties): from French combattre (verb), from late Latin combattere, from com- 'together with' + battere, variant of Latin batuere 'to fight'.

We can play semantics all day, but the fact is it's a valid use of the word and anyone that doesn't have a stick up their ass will understand, whether through intuition or actually looking it up.

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>>1590061
>IPlate armor is not the end all be all

If it can stop a spear thrust it will stop your hand. Period.

>Many systems are used all around the world and conclusively it is said that keeping your distance and being a strong powerful quick striker is your safest bet

No battlefield system advocates keeping your distance and striking with your hands. that is so unbelievably stupid. Even with a dagger it makes no sense in armor, only a stab though one of the armors gaps would be decisive, and that requires closing with the enemy.

>>1590080
>If it can stop a spear thrust it will stop your hand. Period.

Except your hand is not your only weapon and a spear does not have the fluidity and ability to change angles. A spear is precise focused point where as a kick can be focused applied pressure.

>No battlefield system advocates keeping your distance and striking with your hands. that is so unbelievably stupid, even with a dagger it makes no sense in armor

What is with you and armor and daggers? Many times if a swordsman lost his sword in the middle of war he would end up dead this is why it is said the sword should become an extension of you, essentially another body limb. If you lost your sword would you really be walking up to other swordsman trying to get them in locks?

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>>1590106
The sword was not even the primary weapon on the battlefield, bows spears and other polearms were. and they broke, as did swords.

>If you lost your sword would you really be walking up to other swordsman trying to get them in locks?

http://www.koryu.com/library/mskoss8.html

>These close combat methods were an important part of the different martial systems that were developed for use on the battlefield. They can be generally characterized as either Sengoku Jidai (Warring States period, 1467-1568) katchu bujutsu or yoroi kumiuchi (fighting with weapons or grappling while clad in armor), or Edo Jidai (Edo period, 1600-1868) suhada bujutsu (fighting while dressed in the normal street clothing of the period, kimono and hakama)

>here are several reasons why Japanese arts developed in this way. First, there was a major change in the conduct of warfare during the Sengoku Jidai compared with that of earlier times. Fighting was typified by large-scale engagements on the battlefield. Bushi, dressed in armor, fought all over the place in a melee situation--not the sort of conditions where striking an enemy with one's fists or feet would be effective. The close quarters tactics of the day called for closing with the enemy, throwing him down, and taking his head.

Note the dagger in the picture is made for armored grappling. It was even worn in such a way to make it difficult for the other guy to draw it during a clinch

>>1589423
>get your ear bitten off
>while wearing armor

Full retard

>>1590080
Most armies were on foot and there was always a chance to be ambushed while marching, most soldiers could only afford one set of armour. I'd really suggest watching Marco Polo as so far they have made an interesting and studied recreation of Chinese and Mongolian warfare.

>>1590131
>japanese warfare
>kung fu thread
In China the sword, and later the saber were the most prominent weapon on the battlefield. Swordsman made the front line with spears behind to hold the enemy at bay. It would be great to start a group to try that out.

>>1589943
https://youtu.be/0b9v1slvjFo

>>1589719
Wushu is a sport that takes the forms and movements of Chinese martial arts and turned it into a performance art. So there's that.

>>1590131
>The sword was not even the primary weapon on the battlefield, bows spears and other polearms were. and they broke, as did swords.

So what are you saying the warfare in the past was won by breaking your weapons and then wrestling with each other?

>>1589994
>but going to the ground in a fight is a huge no no

If you actually trained you'd be aware that going to the ground isn't always your choice and if you don't practice your ground work you're going to get your shit pushed in regardless.

If you had any real world experience you'd know that not every situation calls for a knockout and sometimes it's better to pin and control someone than it is to hospitalize them.

>>1590159
great strawmaning. No but if your weapons did break you needed to be prepared.

What you advocate would have gotten you killed. Most kung fu systems, while having elements of battle techniques like sword and spear, were not battlefield combat arts persay.

Things like these Japanese arts, and the European combat manuals that teach very similar stuff, were. and they show close in grappling by men in armor, using daggers to pierce the gaps

>>1590150
>>1589955
Guys, don't be so new. It was clearly a reference to the way two kung fu guys challenged a grappler on this board and both bitched out when their challenges were accepted

>>1590177
https://warisboring.com/the-chinese-military-will-no-longer-know-kung-fu-da36cf26ecc1#.c53mzpywy


Grappling universally is never recommended for warfare sorry

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>>1590187
Have you seen the marine combatives program? Its basically grappling. It was designed by a guy with a background in judo, and koryu bujutsu that includes that kind of grappling.

Grappling has been a mainstay of US military combatives going back to WWI when Capt. Smith, a direct student of Kano, judo's founder taught a system of jujutsu to US soldiers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwb8lSilrI


There are so many examples that prove you wrong. Its ridiculous that you suggest it.

>>1590204
I never said it wasn't taught I said it wasn't recommended

>chances are you're about to see the rubber soles of a half dozen size 11 boots coming toward your head like a freight train.

>So let me spare you a few hundred dollars in martial arts classes and give you my #1 secret to surviving a vicious ground fight. Ok, ready? Here it is..get off the freakin' ground!

>Jeff Anderson is a 10 year veteran of the U.S. Army, a Master Instructor of Close Quarters Combat self defense, and President of the International Society of Close Quarter Combatants. A full time self defense author and instructor, Jeff has trained military, law enforcement, and civilians in advanced close quarter combat tactics for "real life" self defense.

So let me spare you a few hundred dollars in martial arts classes and give you my #1 secret to surviving a vicious ground fight.

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/close-quarters-combat/secret-to-surviving-ground-fight

>>1590221
fucked up the wording but you get my point

>>1590221
How many times do you have to be told that groundwork is just a subset of grappling to get it through your head.

If it was not recommended, why were knights and samurai not using the striking systems of Europe an Asia instead of the grappling systems? Were they taught wrong? just stupid? and why do twentieth century armies essentially teach a less armored version of the same thing?

>>1590221
>Jeff has trained military, law enforcement, and civilians in advanced close quarter combat tactics
Guys like these use deceptive wording in their marketing. They get PVT Dumbfuck or Deputy Dickface to come into their studio for a seminar and then claim to train military and law enforcement personnel. Technically correct, but not at all what they are implying.

>>1590231
That was only last resort, you dont want to get into any opponents range naturally especially in warfare and and when they are armed.

Also westling always developed as sport never by warfare or real fights

>>1590252
of course its a last resort, thats why they had guns, spears and swords.


They never did kickboxing in full armor like you suggest.

>Also wrestling always developed as sport never by warfare or real fights

if by wrestling your including jujutsu than you are objectively wrong.

>>1590262
Last resort as in your striking failed because thats what you do you dont run up and grab somone. And you cannot be too passive and let other people set the pace. You attack fast and hard and keep your distance. Your weapons are memorized scripts where as my weapon is formless and simple.

>>1590274
I hope your a troll but incase your not, than your full of shit.

>Last resort as in your striking failed
um no.

>where as my weapon is formless and simple.

Failing your weapon without thought to edge alignment, distancing and parrying might be formless and simple. it also doesn't work.

>>1590281
>distancing and parrying might be formless and simple, it also doesnt work

I am assuming you're saying all of this after you read about JKD? Written by one of the most progressive martial artists the world has ever known

>>1590252
>wrestling was never developed for warfare

Just stop man
https://youtu.be/f6Pnw-9A8qQ
https://youtu.be/6C_s3SHAZfI

Hell, the U.S. army basically teaches a crash course in bjj at boot camp.

https://youtu.be/QWE0EJMvLKw

>>1590291
I really dont care about Bruce Lee's thoughts on marital arts. Not when there are so many others far more worthy of such attention

>>1590298
>In ancient Greece wrestling occupied a prominent place in legend and literature; wrestling competition, brutal in many aspects, served as the focal sport of the ancient Olympic Games. The ancient Romans borrowed heavily from Greek wrestling, but eliminated much of its brutality.

>During the Middle Ages (fifth century to fifteenth century) wrestling remained popular and enjoyed the patronage of many royal families, including those of France, Japan and England.

>mateur wrestling flourished throughout the early years of the North American colonies and served as a popular activity at country fairs, holiday celebrations, and in military exercises.

>Oil wrestling is the national sport of Turkey and it can be traced back to Central Asia.

>The earliest Chinese term for wrestling, "jǐao dǐ" (角抵, horn butting), refers to an ancient sport in which contestants wore horned headgear with which they attempted to butt their opponents.

>>1590301
>I don't care about bruce lees thoughts on martial arts

You're a close minded fool, exactly the type of ass he would kick and exactly the type of person that doesn't grow at all. Stay with your cystalized step by step script. Hope you don't forget it all

>>1590316
The only footage of him fighting suggests he was a decent kickboxer, not some martial legend.

>>1590322
I don't even have to list the amount of credible people in the martial art world who have sparred with him and said he was good, Wong Shun Leung and Jhoon Rhee are just two

Jhoon Rhee even said he has never seen anyone who dedicated themselves to martial arts more than bruce, also saying he had a martial art soul.

>>1590327
scratch the first part just read it here
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/99vs66/tkd.html

>>1590327
I dont think he olds a candle to Helio gracie, Jigoro Kano, Mifune, Kunii Zenya, and many others, just in this century.

He came up with nothing new, most of his stuff was just rephrased stuff from things like the Do de ching

>>1590316
>gives the sporting history of greco-Roman wrestling as proof that wrestling as a military skill was never developed
>completely ignores my video links to ringen am schwert (literally translates to wrestling at arms)

Not to mention the fact that jujutsu was originally developed as a battlefield art as well.

Are you legit retarded?

>>1590327
>Jhoon Rhee even said he has never seen anyone who dedicated themselves to martial arts more than bruce, also saying he had a martial art soul.
Well, that fucking seals it. If that fucking hack thinks he's great, I know he's shit.

>>1590336
jujitsu is just one example from one country competing on the world stage sorry

>>1590335
Miyamoto Musashi also used tao te ching, nothing wrong with that.

>>1590351
And he was not original in that regard either, but he had a pretty damn impressive fight record, and battle experence.

His art contains jujutsu btw

>>1590347
BB: What was the most significant thing you learned from training with Bruce Lee, and vice versa?

>RHEE: I think the most important thing I learned form Bruce was his hand techniques, his "non-telegraphic" punch. the most important thing I taught Bruce was probably my side kick. This is, in fact, a very difficult kick until you really know the finer me chanics of executing the kick. We really learned valuable things from each other.

BB: There are those who have labeled Lee a "celluloid fighter," claiming he couldn't fight for real. What is your opinion?

>RHEE: I too have heard people who think Bruce wasn't a real fighter, but he really was. When he was in high school in Hong Kong, he fought in a Golden Gloves boxing tournament and knocked out the reighning champion after only a few weeks of training. Bruc e was really a good streetfighter, and I personally have never seen anybody, pound for pound, as strong as Bruce Lee. Now, when he is no long with us, it's pretty natural that there are some people who try to discredit Bruce. This does not change the actu al facts. I know Bruce was a very good fighter.

Why do you think hes a hack? He trained Ali as well

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>>1590353
The best fighters know how to use water and the philosophy of tao te ching in their combat. Also if you read bruces philosophy he really was original in some aspects in my opinion he was a great poet and philosopher.

>>1590358
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYdcm2DiMnM

Not saying he was bad, but I dont think he was the best ever, even in kickboxing

>>1590351
>jujitsu is just one example from one country competing on the world stage sorry

What the fuck? You were the one who literally said wrestling was NEVER developed for combat. Jujutsu is proof that's not true.

As is ringen am schwert, and the modern army combative program, and the marine corp martial arts program, and a lot of shit. You're objectively wrong. Fucking deal with it, fag.

>>1590358
>he fought in a Golden Gloves boxing tournament and knocked out the reighning champion after only a few weeks of training.

Post a source, faggot. I don't believe you.

>>1590377
I never said wrestling was never developed for combat thats retarded. Most of the world did not use wrestling for warfare like you're implying

>>1590368
He was the type to put mind over body and he did that with his training, heres some interesting reads http://www.cheungswingchun.com/g/10410/bruce-lee-william-cheung---the-early-years.html
http://www.blackbeltmag.com/daily/traditional-martial-arts-training/wing-chun/william-cheung-hong-kong-bullies-wing-chun-kung-fu-and-bruce-lee/
http://chisao.com/archives/139
http://www.wongvingtsun.co.uk/wslbl.htm

>>1590384
see
>>1590397

He also participated in beimo and street fights with gang members

>>1590397
>I never said wrestling was never developed for combat thats retarded

>>1590252
>Also westling always developed as sport never by warfare or real fights

Confirmed retard

>>1590401
I don't want hearsay I want to know where he fought, when and against who.

>>1590404
Ok the real fights was wrong for me to say but in all honesty wrestling in (most of the world) was most developed and used as entertainment or sport

>>1590407
Read the links and you will understand more of the culture

>>1590409
People have been training grappling for sport and combat for as long as people have been killing eachother. I listed you a bunch of examples of grappling being trained for warfare. There are more. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to accept.

>>1590411
I don't care about the culture, I want to know where he fought, who he fought, and when he fought.

You won't be able to satisfy those results because again, it's hearsay. The only fight we for sure know happened was against Wong jack man and the witnesses report conflicting results on that as well.

>>1590424
Just because you don't have a video of something doesn't mean it didn't happen.Did you read the links?

>>1590418
I just don't think the world has consistently used wrestling in warfare

>>1590432
>I just don't think the world has consistently used wrestling in warfare

>I just don't think the world has consistently used projectiles in warfare

both these statements are stupid and easily proven wrong

>>1590450
I just posted multiple places where wrestling was developed and used as sport primarily, more places than you can list

>>1590450
also

>implying the guns predecessor was wrestling

wew lad

>>1590466
Not only was sport wrestling often a part of basic military training, there were pure battlefield systems developed.

>>1590470
No, I showed that simply thinking something doesn't mean your opinion is valid

>>1590481
>there were pure battlefield systems developed

cite me at least 5 of these from around the world

>>1590432
>just because I don't have proof that something happened doesn't mean I shouldnt just take hear say at face value.

>>1590495
the martial art world can regulate without technology in my opinion. Yes there is some stagnation but ultimately there are checks and balances within itself and external from other cultures

>>1590492
Jujutsu/yoroi kumiuchi
modern marine combatives
Shivworks
Hema grappling
krav maga

(note I do not hold all these systems to be equal so dont pile on me for including maga)

>>1590492
Multiple schools of jujutsu, sambo, ringen am schwert, modern army combatives program, bokh (mongolian folk wrestling.)

There's 5.

>>1590501
What the hell are you talking about?

You said bruce lee won a golden gloves tournament. I'm asking for evidence of this actually happening outside of rumor. This has nothing to do with regulating martial arts.

>>1590506
>>1590509
Okay I am talking more ancient. Okay I acknowledge Ringen and Jujitsu but I don't think the romans ever wrestled in warfare despite having it as a sport, I could be wrong though if I am enlighten me

>>1590514
Multiple martial artists that trained with yip man said he did it was well known

>>1586948
bjj doesnt have a governing body

no the ibjjf is not one

>>1590523
>b-but people said he did
>I literally don't know what hear say is

>>1590523
>Moving the goal posts

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>>1590523
>Okay I am talking more ancient

>>1590535
>>1590535
I am just saying something that isn't recent, warfare is something weve done since forever so its history should be taken into account right? In this age of drone strikes and advanced technology can you really say the human combative nature is being taken to its highest level or even the level of pre-technology? What works now maybe wouldn't have worked back then.

Humans now are naturally becoming more "domesticated" so if things like wrestling are being used in the military and police force maybe there is something going on.

>>1590534
If we didn't rely on hearsay we wouldnt be where we are as humans right now

>>1590547
how is medieval examples, the point where armor was most developed, not good enough. You ask older and therefor more obscure systems when we have already established grappling as part of human combative behavior

>>1590407
I hate to say this, but you have to take the hear say as it is because before martial arts ever got westernized that's all there was. It was xenophobic underground culture. I mean we still have a bunch of Lees students alive knowing what he was capable of and YET people still don't believe it. So in the end its all really up to what you want to believe.

>>1590551
There are ways to evaluate hearsay and witness testimonials. Your not doing it

>>1590552
Yeah but we have not established if it is effective to be indulged in. If more of the world used it in their warfare maybe I would take it more seriously. If it is as effective as you're claiming I think it would have been used more.

>>1590557
Most of the people he was trained by in HK were pretty credible and well known yip man, wong shun leung, liang zi peng, people from the jing wu association, his dad also taught him too.

Also beimo fights/martial art fights/ street fights were common back then.

>>1590397
as much as I like Lee. Fuck Bruce Lee, he broke the pot of kung fu and generalized it into the western world by pitching the shitty 70s sitcom. Then watered it down by making his cinema serious. So than everyone wanted to be "serious," eventually no one is serious since everyone is. Not to mention this idea would eventually spawn Krotty Kid and the beginning of McDojos. Cursed by a monkey paw.

>>1590575
It was bound to be broken sadly, with the internet and everything else I would rather someone like bruce lee a real martial artist show the oriental side than someone like jet li. He actually said he wanted to break the stereotypes in the west but maybe he ultimately failed because they didn't constantly represent themselves.

>>1590557
here is one of his books if you want to read it https://murdercube.com/files/Exotic%20Weapons/Martial%20Arts/Bruce%20Lee%20-%20Chinese%20Gung%20Fu.pdf

>>1590555
People also say he could throw a million punches a second. People say that dim mak and pressure points are legitimate martial arts technoques. Not everything people say is true.

>>1590571
But it was used all over the fucking world. Just about every fucking culture in the world developed a system of grappling. A good amount of those included it in their militaries hand to hand training, however of course not all of them cared to do that because they were more likely to stab and shoot eachother. The whole premise of your argument was that it was terrible for the battlefield. We gave you a dozen examples of it being used and you say "well, I just don't FEEL like it was prevalent enough." You're not only wrong, but your stupid as well.

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>>1590598
" I highly recommend Mr. bruce Lee's book on the Chinese Art of Gung Fu. This informative book will reveal an outstanding style of Chinese self defense. I have witnessed the teaching methods of the author and I find it concise and effective. I was also astonished with the vast knowledge of this youthful Chinese Master possesses. His "Wing Chun" system is unlike any other system of Gung Fu that I have seen. I have never seen anything like it. I am convinced that this would be the system I would study if I were to begin my Gung Fu training again. Master Bruce Lee, who is a gentleman, can actually apply his seemingly gentle method in actual application. I have seen him perform with the grace and agility of a panther, and with lightning speed. He is truly a Master of a great style of Chinese fighting." Wally Jay, Head instructor "Island Judo and Ju Jitsu" club, Alameda, California. Black Belt 5th degree in Ju Jitsu- Black Belt 3rd degree in Kodakan judo

>>1590614
It was used as a back up last resort if striking failed because thats what you do when you encounter an enemy from a distance. There was a such thing as a swordsmans punch and there were strikes. Also there were men who can stand an arm being broken and focus and carry out their mission

>>1590629
>punching
>in armor

We've already disputed this but whatever. You're obviously not going to admit that kung fu movies aren't real so believe whatever you want.

>>1590644
I never said you can punch armor but I did say there was a such thing as a swordsmans punch and most people were taught striking as well. You're implying the whole world valued wrestling over striking. Wheres your proof they didnt teach them striking?

>>1590648
>>prove a negative

Ok man.

>>1586856
kek

>>1590653
regardless of what you think grappling should always be secondary to striking

>>1590659
>every situation involving unarmed combat has the same priorities

Ok man

>>1590661
There should only be one priority in real combat

>>1590666
A 250lb linebacker tackles you and is punching you from the ground. Is your priority still striking?

Fucking retard.

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>>1590680
If you develop your kicks, footwork and speed you can stop a linebacker and even mike tyson said he equates being on the ground with losing

>>1590690
LOL ok buddy. Have fun with your anti-grappling.

>>1590716
I am not against grappling I just want to be able to do as much damage untill we probably end up grappling if we do. You have to take advantage of every opportunity, if you feel you can end the fight without being close you should do so

>>1590719
also heres a good video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTOjtUfvIPE

>>1590719
I laid out a scenario where the only realisticsolution was grappling. Your response was "well I'd just strike him"

What do you train?

>>1590722
I literally do not give two Shit's about bruce lee. He was an actor, not a fighter. He has a mythologue surrounding him that's entirely made of rumor and hear say. If there's no evidence he did anyrhing I don't believe it.

>>1590725
I have learned BJJ and thai boxing the mainstream of today but from reputable dojos also I know some boxing and also very little kung fu but to me I train so that if I need to drop someone with a tiep kick/front push it will succeed. Primarily I would say I am a striker, I favor the muay thai over the bjj I know, I also know more of it. To me it has always been secondary I would rather kick someones gut in than to grab them to be honest. The kicks I am in favor of have also have worked for me in the past. It really stops everything. Also I am training to use a side kick for long range power.

>>1590731
Bruce lee was one of the most influential martial artists of all time dont be stupid

>>1590731

>He's popular and mainstream
>I HATE HIM!!!

>He has nothing to prove to you, he is already dead. Enjoy your own opinion, it is the only thing you have.

>>1590742
>doesn't train a stand up grappling style
>thinks he can stop a takedown against a good grappler with striking

Figures

>bruce lee was one of the most infuential martial artists of all time

That's not always a good thing. He inspired a generation TMA shitters who believed kung fu movies were real. He had no effect on legitimate martial arts and no, was not responsible for the rise of MMA.

Still an actor, not a fighter.

>>1590743
>implying

He's still an actor, not a fighter. Cry more kung faggot.

>>1590731
>>1590747
>>1590750

>"I don't believe in styles"
>BRUCE LEE HATES GRAPPLING!

>>1590747
Your bias against striking is really just retarded at this point

>He had no effect on legitimate martial arts

Of course he did that is stupidity. He inspired shitty people but he also inspired great people. Many of your american ufc fighters and even foreign ones started because of him and thats retarded to say otherwise you sound butthurt.

>was not responsible for the rise of mma

You can argue that but it was definitely a part of his combat philosophy

>still an actor not a fighter

Just your opinion. He dedicated his life to martial arts

>>1590753
He's an actor, not a fighter. Cry more kung faggot.

>>1590761
>hurr durr you have bias against striking

No I don't, I'm just not stupid enough that striking is the preferred answer to everything

>Hurr durr that's just your opinion

Oh really? What's bruce Lee's fight record?

>>1590771
*to think that

>>1590771
Striking is preferred for me thats how I role and thats whats best

>whats bruce lees fight record

Go look for your self I know he fought people and he also did full contact sparring. You're probably just jealous or something you cannot admit someones skill when you see it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1riSAUlpxY

You people kung fu haters always hate bruce lee too even though he advocated full contact sparing and a personal martial art system that works best for the individual. You are just racist against the asians thats all it is

>>1586852
Bring back challenges, have dojos start routing their best students into competitive formats like K1, Sanda, Muay Thai, and MMA. Particularly Muay Thai because it allows standing grappling but not ground grappling.

Make it like gyms in the legit sporting arts where you can look up your instructor's record and if he doesn't have a record he has a hard time getting students.

>>1590784
>asks for a professional fight record
>gets an exhibition instead

Just so you know, bruce lee literally didn't have a professional fight record. He never fought anyone.

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>>1591556
Bruce lee has won fights and tournaments I posted some links earlier and also you literally cannot recognize that underground fights in HK at the time were huge? One of bruce lees teachers was a street fighter himself and even supervised some of his beimo/street fights.


>n interviews, Wong claimed to have won at least 60, and perhaps over 100, street fights against martial artists of various styles, though these numbers cannot be independently confirmed.[3][6][7][8][9] Due to his reputation, his students and admirers referred to him as 'Gong Sau Wong' (講手王 or 'King of Talking Hands')

>According to Wong and his students, he became active in beimo (比武): semi-organised bare-knuckle challenge fights in Hong Kong (sometimes known as 'kung fu elimination contests').[24] Supposedly there were no rules, protective equipment, or time limits.[3] As Wong recalled in an interview, "When I competed, it was in secret. We went into a room, and the door was shut and there were no rules. The government did not allow them. They were illegal, but we didn't care. We fought until the other guy was knocked out."[6] Beimo competitions were believed to be held anywhere that was found to be convenient. Some beimo competitions were held on the streets in Hong Kong.[25][26]

>In the early 1950s, compared to other kung fu styles, wing chun was hardly known.[28] It was a style of kung fu practiced by a minority—mostly members of the Association of Restaurant Workers of Hong Kong.[29] Different kung fu schools met secretly with each other for challenge matches. Wong was said to have faced opponents from many disciplines—"virtually every style of martial art in the colony."[14] He defeated many opponents in beimo matches in Hong Kong between the ages of 17 and 32, and his reputation grew as he continued winning these matches.[2] Some have attributed wing chun's fame in Hong Kong to Wong's beimo reputation.

>>1591682
>Wong claims
>cannot be independently confirmed

In otherwords, he has no professional fight record. Glad we cleared that up.

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>>1591814
Okay retard douche you clearly cannot into other cultures

>>1591814
also keep in mind he also challenged and closed schools, like bruce lees fight with wong jack man, these type of fights determined if your school closed or not

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>>1590514
>You said bruce lee won a golden gloves tournament.

No Jhoon Rhee and other people did

>>1591858
If other cultures means "not being able to verify if rumors are true or not" then i don't want to into your culture.

>>1591874
Speculative bullshit. Find me evidence of a school that bruce lee closed.

>>1592142
Again, it's hearsay. There's no proof he ever actually fought a golden gloves boxer.


I now declare that I have 2736379 and 0 record against other martial arts masters who I beat so badly they were forced to close their schools. Prove me wrong.

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>>1592158
Its not about being able to verify rumors because its not rumors in the sense you are making it out to be. Its different from the west, in the west there are WWF/MMA crossover for profit and exitement it is just sport, in the east fights are usually not done on national tv and they fight for reputation and for their style not for money and hollywood fame like many. Compare floyd mayweather to yip man they have 2 different philosophies cultures and different way of doing things, if anything you can argue the skill level but to argue that these fights never happened is wrong.

>Find me evidence of a school that bruce lee closed.

I never said he closed schools I said one of his teachers did and you cannot fake schools being closed down you are objectively arguing the history of chinese martial art and philosophy just because its not on national television for you.

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>>1592158
Also Bruce Lee was againt what you're speaking about thats why he would challenge his wing chun elders and beat them quickly and it caused a lot of problems because he was often causing drama between dojos and such

He was the anti-bullshit use what works martial artist

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>>1592193
Also he choreographed a lot of fights and had up to 4 dojos open at one point he obviously understood combat

>>1592175
>This nigga literally believe yip man movies are real

lol. Listen im not going to try and convince you not to take everything everyone says at face value. However I will continue to laugh at your inability to separate myth from reality.

"no seriously you guise bruce lee went around fighting wing chun masters. I mean, there's no evidence any of these fights happened and no witnesses, but totally guys it really did!"

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>>1592249
>Implying im talking about the movie yip man instead of the real yip man

Low IQ detected how about you go read a few books then come back. Sorry you have to actually edit history just because it doesn't fit your racist narrative

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>>1592321
"He always went out with Huang Chun Liang to engage in street fights and roof fights. He gained many fight experiences at that time. Bruce believed firmly that to win in a fight, one must make use of the shortest distance attack" - The complete book of yi quan

Its well known in the martial art community

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>>1592414
"He learned Choy Li Fut from Chen Nian Bo in Wong Tai Sin park. One day, Bruce went to go visit some friends in Wong Tai Sin. When passing a grass field Bruce saw an old man teaching people. Bruce challenged him and was knocked down. He then practiced with him."- The complete book of Yi Quan pg 73

>>1592321
>you don't believe hear say and rumors? RACIST

>>1592414
Random unrecorded streetfights. Sure sounds like a professional record to me!

lol, is it hard to train with bruce Lee's rotting cock choking you all the time?

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>>1592432
Jhoon Rhee - "You could show him a tremendously difficult technique that took years to perfect and the next time you saw him, he would do it better than you".

No you are attacking the chinese who have thousands of years of culture and saying that they can't fight or their types of underground or secretive fighting is bad.

You should probably just stick to your surface level tv network sports fighting

>>1592468
The Chinese have plenty of professional fighters all of which I would wager could kick the shit out of Bruce lee because they fought for real.

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>>1592475
Really? Who do you think was on bruces level from china? If you're gonna say yi long I think bruce would win

>>1592475
just to give you some insight

>Boxing in China began as a street sport in the 1920s, mainly in the port cities of Shanghai and Guangzhou, where foreign sailors were pitted against local fighters in the ring. The sport grew rapidly and unsupervised by the Chinese government. Chinese boxing style is similar to Western boxing style, with influences from traditional Chinese martial arts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_in_China

>>1592493
Literally any professional sanshou fighter past or present if it has to be CMA.

That said, China also produces professional boxers, wrestlers, judoka, and mma fighters. I'm willing to bet all of them could beat a 0-0 record actor.

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>>1592622
You are twisting it so much saying bruce was a subpar martial artist but he was known by everyone who met him as a great martial artist. Find me some people who trained with bruce and didn't think he was good. Joe lewis didn't think he was a fighter because of his size and thought he was too philosophical yet his still called him one of the greatest martial artist of all time. He did way more and dedicated himself way more than your average mma fighter bruce put 250% in it was his spirit. What do you think Jhoon Rhee trainer of Muhammad Ali is wrong?

>>1592681
I think he was in insanely good shape and probably good at wing chun. However I think his reputation is way overblown especially by people that making a killing off his legacy. Gene lebell once said that bruce was good, but ronda rousey would have eaten him alive.

For context, gene lebell trained both Ronda rousey and bruce lee (literally taught bruce everything he ever learned about grappling) he was am Olympic gold medalist in judo, participated in America's first sanctioned MMA fight and had a reputation as "the toughest man alive"

So there you go.

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>>1592700
I know about that ronda rousey quote and it could have been a joke because he was promoting ronda in that video. He also said bruces kicks were phenomenal and that he was a great athelte.

Objectively speaking do you really think a male martial artist/athelete with phenomenal kicks should really be in the same league as a women? Comparing women to men in terms of fighting is a joke itself.

"'Women fighters? They're all right, but they're no match for the men who are physiologically stronger except for a few vital points.'- Bruce Lee

also there are people that call gene lebell a fraud

>>1592759
>do I think an Olympic level grappler with a 12-1 professional mma record can fight a man

Yes

>using a quote from a guy who has no fight record as an authority on martial arts

Nigga u dumb. And how wpuld gene lebell be a fraud. He won in the olympics and the footage of him fighting a pro boxer is available on youtube. Are you suggesting the olympics were fixed?

>>1592868
So you really don't believe in a gender divide in combat? You think the women of mma ufc can compete with the men of mma ufc? Are you fucking retarded?

>nigga u dumb

fucking kek look at you

>>1592888
>so you don't think there's a gender divide

No, i said I think woman who is an Olympic level grappler and has a 12-1 professional mma record could beat an actor with no fight record.

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>>1592914
Acting has nothing to do with it bud many martial artists were actors

You still continue to not recognize him as a martial artist even without a fight record. Yip man and WSL don't have fight records do you overlook any martial artist that doesnt have a fight record? Secondly you still think a women can step in a ring with a man you are just not even worth my time.

You have no actual knowledge of the martial art world so please tell me, why are you keep forcing your ignorant opinion?

>>1592992
>forcing an ignorant opinion

that's pretty funny coming from the guy who's martial arts hero is a guy with no fight record making actual fighting ability purely speculation.

I don't know wsl is amd no I don't think yip man was a good fighter either. The real martial arts community demands results, not legend.

Oh and for the record,

https://youtu.be/S6x1kRnGNU0

Would you look at that, a woman stepped into the ring with a man.

>>1593014

That guy is a cuck and you are too if you think women can compete with men in combat. Also many ufc fighters hero is bruce lee look at anderson silva and he even trained with bruce lees student. Like I said you have no knowledge or understanding. You think women can honestly fight a man and only sport combat participants have value. You also dismiss actual history thats very stupid

>>1593033
>woman can't fight a man
>given video proof of a woman fighting a man
>hurr durr he doesn't count

this guy...he is like Wu and Pomf combined

>>1593059
Men are naturally made to protect women of course hes not going to use his full strength on a woman and again we are talking about real fighting not sport

>>1593100
>hurr durr real fighting not stupid sport mma shit

Here we go again

>>1593121
Sports fighting is different from no rules fighting sorry if you can't understand why

>>1586852
Do kickboxing instead

>>1593121
Also if you really think that if the ufc removed all rules and weight class the outcome of the fights would remain the same you are crazy

>>1593131
Sure, but the same styles that tend to win under low rules tend to win under no rules

>>1593181
I love how you completely forgot about your argument that women can step into the ring with a man

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>>1593215
>implying that's even me.

More than one person thinks youre a retard. I showed you evidence of a woman stepping in the ring already. You back pedaled and said "well he doesn't count or wasn't using full strength." When you said grappling was never used in combat you were proven wrong. When you said grappling was never developed for combat you were proven wrong. When you said bruce lee had a fight record you couldn't produce it. You're a dumbass. Stop drinking the Kool aide.

>>1593227
You only showed 1 video and it wasn't good. They were smiling and there was no hair pulling. Not a real fight, more like a friendly spar. Do you even know why short hair was preferable in war? Unless you have a bunch of short haired ftm transgenders they cannot be on the level of a man and this is science. Also I never said grappling was never developed for combat I said most of the world developed it and used it mainly as sport. You're calling me a dumb ass but you're the one using ghetto slang and being completely ignorant about the whole topic. I have cited multiple books videos and commentary by reputable martial artists and the only thing you do is force your goal post which is based on ignorance.

>>1593486
>kung faggots are reputable martial artists

No

>I never said grappling was never developed for combat

>>1590252
>Also westling always developed as sport never by warfare or real fights

Again, you're an idiot.

>>1593486
https://youtu.be/pRzGLVtrnTg
https://youtu.be/PcaUnwnquPw

Here's even a street fight for you
https://youtu.be/0Bk8mmYdIK4

When there's a skill differential, yes men can be beaten by women.

>>1593504
>implying I only listed kung fu sifus

Taekwondo, Karate, gene lebell whom you admire all said he was a great martial artist you like to pick and choose, it doesn't work that way.

Also I corrected myself on that post if you actually look at the context.

>>1593513
Not even the transgenders can do sport crossovers with men without taking hormones please stop this nonsense. Mentally women cannot go to the depth that men can when it comes to martial art and combat. If you're really arguing what you are you would be for them being in the military which is laughable.

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>>1593550
>>1593504

>Could you have beaten Bruce Lee in your prime?

Hey listen, I don’t know about that stuff. Because Bruce Lee, he didn’t believe in fighting in tournaments and stuff. He basically believed in: “Let’s do it right now.” But Bruce Lee was really a street fighter, like an MMA fighter for real. No one talked about MMA before that, or grappling. He said, "I don’t believe in grappling, because I equate grappling with being on the floor and I equate being on the floor with being stomped." And they said, "What do you mean?" And he said, "One guy maybe, but I’m fighting five or six guys but I can't be on the floor, wrestling around."

>>1593550
>HURR DURR WOMEN COULD NEVER BEAT A MAN
>Heres a couple videos of women with superior skill beating men
>HURR DURR THATS NONSENSE

Who's really being nonsensical here?

>>1593592
>responding to only half my post
>not even explaining any logical reasoning except muh isolated incidents.

If a women and man both train in martial art at the same amount and with the same desire the man will win because he is born with a natural boost especially made for combat, also is mind goes deeper into it where as a female really cannot. If women were as capable in combat as you are implying they would also be on front lines in wars carry soldiers and keeping a certain mental strength


However like I mentioned earlier we are going into a new cycle where men are becoming domesticated and women are becoming more dominant and successful and Tesla predicted this.

>>1593608
I never implied women were "as capable"

I literally said if there is a skill difference, a woman can beat a man which ive demonstrated 4 times over already.

>>1593644
their skill level is not the same as men which is why theyre separate not even transgenders can compete

>>1593687
>their skill level is not the same
>all women are on the same level as all other women
>all men are on the same level as all other men

ok man

>>1593722
Please go to the ufc and tell them women should be allowed to fight men you will get laughed at

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>>1590407
Literally beimo and secret underground fights are a part of the culture back then. Its how boxing developed in China, fights were illegal so these types of tournaments were the western equivalent.You literally cannot deny actual history. Ask anyone in HK or China back then nor even todays masters and they will tell you all about it. Bruce even had his own gang called the Junction Street Tigers. It is well known in China that he was a street fighter. The movies he made actually resembles his life similarly because he was always fighting triads and other martial artists and even teachers like yip man and others had to regularly discourage their students from street fighting because it was a extremely popular thing. One of the last buildings Bruce had a rooftop fight on was the Mirador Mansion, in Kowloon. You cannot edit a mans past just because it doesn't fit your narrative

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>>1594760

BB: When you and Lee worked out together, what did you two focus on?

RHEE: Most of the time we focused on kicks, but we also practiced punching once in a while. Burce really loved sushi, so every time he stayed at my house, my wife fixed him a huge plate of sushi, and we could eat and train like mad until four or five o'cl ock inthe morning.

BB: What was the most significant thing you learned from training with Bruce Lee, and vice versa?

RHEE: I think the most important thing I learned form Bruce was his hand techniques, his "non-telegraphic" punch. the most important thing I taught Bruce was probably my side kick. This is, in fact, a very difficult kick until you really know the finer me chanics of executing the kick. We really learned valuable things from each other.

BB: Some of Lee's old acquaintances have suggested that, at one point after training with some of his wing chun kung fu seniors during a trip to Hong Kong, he seriously considered giving up martial arts because he felt he had lost some of his speed and sk ill.

RHEE: I really can't see him ever thinking about quitting the martial arts, no matter what happened when he met with his old teachers or seniors. He had a martial arts soul; the martial arts was his life.

BB: How fast were Lee's techniques?

RHEE: Bruce was very fast, but more important was his excellent timing, his deceptiveness. Good timing is essential. Muhammad Ali was a good fighter, not because of his speed, but because of his timing. I really felt that Bruce valued good timing more th an just speed.

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>>1594827
>"There’s a lot of people that do all those moves and they do have the skill, but they don’t look visually as believable or as impressive as Bruce Lee did. He was one of a kind." – Arnold Schwarzenegger

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>>1595292
look at yi long vs bukaw

>>1593745
>Please go to the ufc and tell them women should be allowed to fight men you will get laughed at
I'd bet you money he wouldn't get laughed at if he wrote a formal Email to the UFC logically explaining his position.

>>1595793
Even Ronda Rousey doesn't believe that women should fight men in the ufc. Its just pure nonsense

>>1595819
I don't give a fuck about that shit. I'm just saying that he won't get laughed at if he does what I said, I don't give a flying fuck about the rest of the discussion, and whether or not it's "pure nonsense" or whatever the fuck else bullshit that's going on.

>>1595846
I didn't mean he would literally get laughed at you autist it was a joke with some truth behind it

>>1595850
>I didn't mean he would literally get laughed at you autist
With the lack of psychological and sociological knowledge on /asp/, it's extremely believable to think you meant that literally.

>>1595906
I don't think it was that absurd, whatever though

>>1595906
>With the lack of psychological and sociological knowledge on /asp/, it's extremely believable to think you meant that literally.
This.

>>1595906
>With the lack of psychological and sociological knowledge on /asp/
It's not just a lack of knowledge, the lack of knowledge is coupled with a lack of understanding, in which is paired with an abundance of delusion.

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>When confronting an incoming attack, the attack is parried or deflected, and a counterattack is delivered at the same time. This is not as advanced as a stop hit but more effective than blocking and counterattacking in sequence. This is practiced by some Chinese martial arts such as Wing Chun, and it is also known in Krav Maga as "bursting". Simultaneous parrying & punching utilizes the principle of economy of motion by combining attack and defense into one movement, thus minimizing the "time" element and maximising the "energy" element. Efficiency is gained by utilizing a parry rather than a block. By definition a "block" stops an attack, whereas a parry merely re-directs it. Redirection has two advantages, first that it requires less energy to execute and second that it utilizes the opponent's energy against them by creating an imbalance. Efficiency is gained in that the opponent has less time to react to an incoming attack, since they are still nullifying the original attack.

Economy of motion is the principle by which JKD practitioners achieve:

>Efficiency: An attack which reaches its target in the least amount of time, with maximum force.
>Directness: Doing what comes naturally in a disciplined way.
>Simplicity: Thinking in an uncomplicated manner; without ornamentation.

The three guidelines for centerline are:

>The one who controls the centerline will control the fight.
>Protect and maintain your own centerline while you control and exploit your opponent's.
>Control the centerline by occupying it.

This notion is closely related to maintaining control of the center squares in the strategic game chess. The concept is naturally present in xiangqi (Chinese chess), where an "X" is drawn on the game board, in front of both players' general and advisors.[15]

Here is a 30 minute compilation of only bruce lee talking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTOjtUfvIPE

>>1595525
Yi Long has literally no affiliation with kung fu

http://www.canbike.org/sports-entertainment/yi-long-shaolin-monk-fight-record.html

>>1596500
He has no affiliation with the shaolin monks or with using kung fu? Also in this interview he says he says bruce lee was one of his heros https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr56FADr8l8

Anything you learn from a middle aged overweight white suburban jabroni who calls himself sensei will not work in a fight.

>>1596363
>Here is a 30 minute compilation of only bruce lee talking

That sounds terrible. Why would I want to watch that? So a non-fighter can talk about martial arts? Nope. So a dropout drama major can talk about philosophy? Nope. Maybe he's giving acting tips?

>>1598779
>still using the non-figher actor meme

k bud

>>1598779
if Muhammad Ali had that attitude he would have never have studied under Jhoon Rhee

Seems like you guys are having a good discussion here, so here's a friendly wrasslebump to keep the thread alive.

Drop any style made in asia.

>>1598898

Burden of proof is on you to find Gary Elm. Or maybe the unnamed stuntman. We know about the fight with Wong that each says he won, but here's some food for thought: after Wong and Lee fought, Bruce Lee changed everything about his training. Wong Jack Man just kept on keepin' on. Looking at it objectively, who do you think won?

Anyway, there were any number of fighting venues Lee could have proven he was great in, from boxing to muay thai to knockdown karate to vale tudo just to name a few. Anyone would have been happy to have a big-time Hollywood star come in and drive up ticket sales and purses. Instead, he told stories about anonymous gangster shit on Hong Kong rooftops like a high school kid whose girlfriend lives in Canada. You've never met her.

>>1602274
Wong adjusted his training more to the internal arts.

Bruce also adopted kicks into his Arsenal for a reason. Wong was holding back his kicks during his match with Bruce which is why it took so long to end.

I believe at the time Wong was the better fighter.

>>1602274
The common elements of the Wong and Lee fight point to it being a pretty sorry spectacle all around.

Lee himself would later describe it as hurting his hands on a guy running away. Wong says he didn't use any kicks for fear of injury, both men slipped, but neither was able to capitalize.

It woulds like typical backyard MMA bullshit.

>>1602724

Well yeah. I'm sure it looked like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S19VsB7__v0 without the opening dance.

I just don't get the ridiculous nut hugging of Bruce Lee. There were tons of legit fighters in that era worth emulating, and they pick the actor who didn't fight. Shit, even Chuck Norris at least had a fight record, regardless of how flawed you might think the rules he followed were.

inb4 somebody posts some quote from Chuck about how much he wanted to suck Bruce's dick. I do not care at all how many otherwise respectable people Bruce had fooled.

>>1603183
Bruce lee had great physique and trained often. There are tons of MMA guys with fight records that aren't that good, and there are fighters that don't fight professionally that are as good or better than the pros.

Anyways this is getting off topic.

Traditional Chinese martial arts are just different than any normal art. There are nuances in Chinese fighting that are esoteric and fanatical. Traditional Chinese arts are many centuries old and it's not very surprising that the knowledge gained by those arts is lost or is simply too complex for practical use, or too flowery.

Chinese arts taught accurately with good teachers are good, but finding those teachers in the west is difficult. You also don't see many traditional Chinese guys in MMA rings. The impractical forms and fighting methods don't work against roided jujutsu/boxing.

I mean you could make some Chinese stuff work with enough practical training, but really if you do Chinese arts you know you aren't practicing for pro fighting.

>>1602370
>get into a fight with someone
>"I was holding back kicks that could kill"

sounds like loser talk

>>1602724
>Lee himself would later describe it as hurting his hands on a guy running away.

Sounds like someone who is hyper offensive and angry (Bruce was mad at the time) vs someone who is scared.

>>1603623
>Sounds like someone who is hyper offensive and angry (Bruce was mad at the time) vs someone who is scared.
Sounds like two people who don't know how to fight.

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>>1603721
Bruce had a reputation for being a street fighter, his books show an understanding of combat and he had 4 dojos open at one point, plus he stressed physical conditioning and full contact sparring

also

>and after a brief encounter the son-of-a-bitch started to run. I chased him and, like a fool, kept punching him behind his head and back

>>1603835
In other words, by his own admission, Bruce could not finish a man who was not fighting back.

>>1603851
Before you should go showing your ignorance you should take into account that WJM is an internal martial artist, he can use his chi to sheild him/protect him. Like how the monks do to withstand drills/ steel bars/ licking red hot iron

Bruce knew about internal martial art but only applied it to his fighting philosophy never actually using it in combat even though he learned some tai chi and a bit of yi quan

>>1603947
Not trying to be a douche only saying you missed some variables that should be taken into account

>>1603987
>Not trying to be a douche only saying you missed some variables that should be taken into account

That's funny because >>1603851 >>1603721
>>1602724 is just being a douch that's missing variables that should be taken into account.

>>1603947
Please tell me you are being facetious.

Bruce also learned some taiji too.

>>1603623
It's respect. They weren't fighting to try to kill one another they were testing their skills. You wouldn't want to injure your training partner would you?

>>1604863
One of WJM primary styles was tai chi so yes I think he could have used it to fortify his defenses also I don't think it was out of respect because Bruce called him a son of a bitch after and started the fight very angry

>>1604660
In my experience many of the kung fu/bruce lee haters only care about fight records and ufc not actually about martial arts or anything on the deeper spectrum

>>1600771
>good discussion here
>Meme bruce wasn't an actual fighter discussion qualifies as "good discussion".

How low have fallen /asp/

If kung fu guys are willing to throw down in a controlled environment, I'm sure there are anons who are willing to oblige

>>1605321
If your ship sank an oar looks like a pretty nice boat.

>>1605513
I'll fight someone sanda rules if they're willing to do it with 16oz. gloves. Spokane, WA.

>>1605710
Why not MMA rules?

>>1605513
This already happened on olds hook /asp/...twice.

The kung faggots bitched out both times.

>>1606185
I was giving them the benefit of fighting in a familiar rule set. But sure, MMA rules.

I thought they might be more comfortable if they didn't have to be afraid of me wrestlefucking them, but sure.

>>1593014
>Would you look at that, a woman stepped into the ring with a man.
Look at his belt and at the comments.That guy was a tan belt, a iteral noob. Of course he got beat by someone who had more experience and knew what they were doing

>>1607337
Read the thread. That was literally the only point he was making in regards to women being capable fighters. Woman can beat men if there's a big skill gap.

>>1589074
>No, an art focusing on strikes is not made for war.
>but this does not mean that warfare was the arts primary purpose.
>martial arts
Even if certain martial arts never saw use never saw use on a battle field, say because that martial artist was a civilian, it's in arguable martial arts were at one point or are descended from techniques used for war and on the battlefield, and all arts purposes are or at least should be self defense/fighting

>>1589828
Fuck me. I've spend my fair share practicing all those fancy shmancy karate martial arts from taekwondo to capoeira and after all those years I still don't get the japanese. I get it, kiai is important, but how the fuck can anyone watch a performance slower than console framerate, punctuated by shouts taking more time than the actual technique is still beyond me.

>>1589074
>unarmed battlefield stuff is almost all grappling because of armor.
Yeah because all people all around the world at all periods in history all wore body armor all the time.

>>1606860
Oh, nm. I thought you were a kung fu guy trying to hide from t3h gr4pple

>>1609078
>battlefield stuff

They usually tried to wear stuff that inhibited your ability to stab them back in the day.

>>1605710
>Spokane, WA.
I'm not driving 4 hours, or spending more than $200 dollars to get there in about 50min, just to kick your ass and then go back home.
I'm more of a freestyle fighter, anyway.

>>1611832
>Y,yeah, I c,could totally kick your ass... is just I ain't driving that far! Take my word for it. (Please)

Confirmed pussy.

>>1613009
Not him, but do you honestly believe your standard for not being a pussy is driving cross country to fight randoms on the internet?

>>1613282
Not really. But it certainly speak volumes when someone throws a challenge and coincidentally the other part lives too far away to made the challenge possible. I mean, half of this thread is about how shitty kung fu is. A kung fu guy (I suppose because the sanda rules part) accepts the challenge and the post goes unnoticed, and the only reply is from some guy who happens to live too far away to sustain his word.

But, fuck, he would totally kick his ass, trust him.

>>1613684
The guy who made the challenge is NOT a kung fu guy. His offer of sanda rules was to offer some sort of handicap to kung fu people who are afraid of ground grapple.

>>1613728
because they're not fighting for real like life or death

in a life or death situation biting a grappler will definitely save you

>>1609078
Any solider that could obtain some sort of protection did and basic armor was pretty damn common.

a cheap helmet and chest protector would make striking that much less effective, besides which, even if your grappling the other guy is probably still armed, so immobilizing their weapon is a priority. getting into a striking fight with someone with a dagger would be suicide, even if you had armor.

>>1613728
MMA rules handicap kungfu. honestly most matches aren't worth the fucking time anyways because it always ends up with someone tackling another on contact and on contact all those years of training are thrown out the window for primal instinct and suddenly its just 2 monkeys beating on each other. This happens in like 99% of all UFC fights

>>1613842
>getting into a striking fight with someone with a dagger would be suicide, even if you had armor.

Exactly so you want to disarm him without being in range for grapling.

>
The Battle of Isandlwana, the first battle in the Anglo-Zulu War, turned into close combat when the British exhausted their ammunition and resulted in a decisive victory for the Zulus over the modern British army.
On October 22, 1986, during the Pudu Prison siege, the Special Actions Unit (special ops unit of the Royal Malaysia Police) turned to hand-to-hand combat, using batons and rattan canes, after the Malaysian Prime Minister ordered the resolution of the hostage crisis without the use of firearms. The result was a victory for the police, and the five prisoners holding hostages in Pudu Prison were arrested. This was a successful hostage rescue mission with the assault team resolving the crisis without firearms, using hand-to-hand combat to subdue the prisoners and rescue the hostages.

Hand-to-hand combat is the most ancient form of fighting known. A majority of cultures have their own particular histories related to close combat, and their own methods of practice. There are many varieties within the martial arts, including boxing and wrestling. Other variations include the gladiator spectacles of ancient Rome and medieval tournament events such as jousting.

>Military organizations have always taught some sort of unarmed combat for conditioning and as a supplement to armed combat.

>>1613848
Bruce lee knew about this and merged art with the primal beating

he said here is instinct and self control, you are to combine the two, not one over the over because you can become too unscientific or a mechanical man, the goal is self expression with no combat limits. No thoughts you hit all by yourself

its an elevated primal art combatively

>>1613852
Ok but we are not talking about stick fighting, and other such methods. we are talking about unarmed methods for the battlefield.

How are you going to disarm someone barehanded without getting into at least arms length grappling range? how are you going to get a weapon out of their hand, or restrain them without, throws or joint locks?

There is a reason why actual systems of battlefield grappling like araki ryu focus on grappling with weapons rather than strikes.

Because that is what men in armor actually did

>>1613864
notice the thai clench at the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvFU1MFkLm4

>>1613871
Notice that this is a Chinese movie.

>>1613883
yeah fist of fury is about chinese vs japanese, politically and even with the martial arts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMjO-38v2cs

>>1586852
>How do we fix Kung Fu?

By:

1) Realizing that it's more "art" than "martial".

2) Realizing that it was designed for people who were 140-160 cm tall.

>>1613009
>>1613282
>>1613684
>>1613728
>>1613823
>>1613848
>>1613863
It's funny because I just said I could kick his ass to poke fun and shitpost.

>>1603431
>Chinese arts taught accurately with good teachers are good, but finding those teachers in the west is difficult.

This is how you preposition yourself for a No True Scotsman argument.

>Bruce lee had great physique and trained often
has nothing to do with whether he was a fighter

>>1603431
>There are tons of MMA guys with fight records that aren't that good, and there are fighters that don't fight professionally that are as good or better than the pros.

Sure, maybe, but we don't have any proof of that because. they. don't. fight. Maybe Bruce was the God of War. Maybe he was a scrub who looked good on screen and stage. We don't know because he was afraid to test himself and be proven the latter.

>>1616887
>This is how you preposition yourself for a No True Scotsman argument.
It's like you're implying you're posting a Strawman.

Teach Western Boxing's 1-2-3 combination like people often teach Tai Chi, and you won't have fighters develop very much combat sports applicable skill very quickly at all.

>>1616912

Okay, so you have examples of tai chi fighters to show us, right? Real, not theoretical or legendary ones?

>>1613848
>MMA rules handicap kungfu
You can't be serious. MMA features the least restrictive ruleset of any sanctioned unarmed combat competition.

>>1613889
Which means its not a reliable source of information about fighting with weapons in armor

>>1586852
So I just saw this?

how many of you kung fu guys have been in a fight like this?

https://martialartsnewyork.org/2015/03/30/first-report-of-a-bare-knuckle-kung-fu-contest-in-new-york-citys-chinatown-1891/

>>1616887
>We don't know because he was afraid to test himself and be proven the latter.

Are you so fucking retarded that you cannot understand cultural differences and the meaning of martial arts? Fuck off stupid cunt

>>1617672

I can tell by how you finished that post that you're a paragon of understanding.

We're talking about a Hollywood movie star, not some monk we kidnapped from the jungles of Cambodia to hold up as a paragon of martial arts.

The idea that Bruce Fucking Lee was too humble to compete is too dumb to even contemplate.

>>1618007
You just continue to show your ignorance. Your post is not even work correcting I am not going to keep repeating myself. Lees past has already been discussed itt

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>>1618007
Also Bruce was not a monk yes he was a renegade Taoist priest. I doubt you or any of the other martial art haters would challenge Lees dojo or any aikido or kung fu dojos.

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>>1618007
And here is one of the actors from the big boss who is also a martial artist talking about lee https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yODCmuR4Wxo

>>1619192

Now I know you're just trolling. You laid it on way too thick right then.

>>1619353
>actors

Why do I give a fuck about an actor's opinion of an actor?

You idiots want to know how to fix Kung Fu? This shit right here has to stop. That's the first step. If you want to be taken seriously, guys who spout shit like these Lee worshipers spout all the time need to be shouted down and shut out every time they speak out.

>>1620244
>guys who spout shit like these Lee worshipers spout all the time need to be shouted down and shut out every time they speak out.
What are we, Neanderthals?

Be civilized, you fucking faggot. People like you need to have their painfully and brutally broken and then cut off inches at a time for spouting bullshit like yours.
We need a physical and psychological torture machine that delivers extreme pain while maintaining, for the most part, the physical well being of the person. The psychological well being of the person shouldn't be damaged too much, but it seems very difficult to have extreme psychological pain without having lasting effects that accumulate.

>>1620244
You think I am trolling because you are so ignorant, go pick up a book and learn from things other than your TV set.

It's no use helping you you are just really dumb and have no knowledge of these subjects or how they work go home kid

>>1620398
>and learn from things other than your TV set.
>Now check out this movie on TV, it's way more accurate than reality.

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>>1620416
He is one of those fedora nu males who have no respect for culture, religion, philosophy and only cares about what is presented to him through the modern world

I listed it as a historical, cultural and philosophical reference

Make drunken fist popular

>>1620321

You should see somebody about the grotesque fantasies in your head, man.

>>1620434
I'm older than you think, but yeah, the modern world is superior in every single aspect of knowledge. Ancient Chinese invented gunpowder and sat there with their thumbs up their asses for the next 1100 years.

Every human endeavor and field of study has improved with time. You wouldn't prefer to have a Civil War-era surgeon operate on you rather than someone from Johns Hopkins, would you? You don't want to drive a Model T down the Autobahn. But oh, suddenly when we're talking about martial arts ancient Chinese "masters" who probably never traveled a hundred miles from their birthplaces got it right while modern syncretic martial artists who are free to consolidate systems from all over the world are the barbarians.

As I said, THIS is why kung fu is and always will be broken. This backwards-looking nonsense.

>>1620452
You have no knowledge in your long years of living. Chinese medicine and philosophy is thousands of years old and still holds up. Acupuncture passes double blind studies and Chinese medicine and martial arts are still relevant

>>1620469
>Acupuncture passes double blind studies and Chinese medicine

No, it doesn't. Doesn't matter where you put the needles, doesn't matter if there are needles. And no, don't link me to a translated Chinese study. Mao invented "Traditional" Chinese Medicine. It's a hoax for brainwashed peasants. You're not even a peasant, so imagine how embarrassed you should be.

>>1620452
>You should see somebody about the grotesque fantasies in your head, man.
I've seen a professional applied psychology practitioner on a regular basis for a good long time. It turns out I'm just really, really smart.

>>1620478
last I checked there was some research showing it can work for pain relief.

>>1620478
Yes it has and just because Mao promoted it it doesn't mean it doesn't work. The Christians have their good and bad the Asians have the yin yang, it's real

>>1620544

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4259

>>1620543
The "puncture" part works great. If you have a chronic pain condition, you can stick your dick in a hornet's nest or hit your thumb with a mallet or ask somebody to slap you in the face and you'll get some endorphins out of it, but what doesn't work is the "acu" part. It doesn't matter where the needles go because there is no chi, there are no meridians, and none of the mythology behind acupuncture is real.

Put the endorphin-releasing stimulus into the midst of a popular, ritualized practice and I'm sure if you believe in it you'll decide your pain has lessened. Pain, of course, being completely subjective and prone to spontaneous remission anyway, has truly lessened if you believe it has lessened.

If my car stereo has a loose wire and turns off sometimes, I can slap it and it'll come back on. But if I attach an elaborate legend to it that the stereo gremlins have gone to sleep and stopped pushing the electrons down the wire and the only way to turn it back on is to wake them up with a slap, my legend is still bullshit even though slapping the stereo does "work."

>>1620593
Regardless of Mao the traditional practices are based on chi and the yin yang.

>>1611832
I'll drive to you. I drive that 4 hours on my weekend anyway. My challenge has been open since that one guy wouldn't fight Puro but still no takers.

>>1620617

Chi is not real. Yin and yang is an imaginary philosophical concept that has no analog in reality, exactly like Good and Bad. Things that aren't real can't be a basis for medical treatments.

>>1620502
How's being 15 working out for you? Hint: Your mom and dad aren't sending you to a shrink because you're really, really smart. They're sending you to a shrink because you're a weird shit who does weird shit and they don't want you to burn the house down one night with them in it.

>>1620669
That's your opinion, what let me guess you are an athiest too? You don't believe all the cultures around the world that talk about chi/the spirit/ ghosts ect

>>1620684
>You don't believe all the cultures around the world that talk about chi/the spirit/ ghosts ect

nope

>>1620452
>Ancient Chinese invented gunpowder and sat there with their thumbs up their asses for the next 1100 years.
They didn't. It wasn't until the 1600s at earliest that the Europeans started outstripping the Chinese in gun production, and even during the first opium wars the guns of the Qing Navy were behind by decades, rather than centuries, and would have done fine.

The big advantage the British had in 1841 was steamships. When you can sail against the winds and tide, and faster than any other ship can go, you're basically in a trolltastic situation where enemy ships can't engage you except when you want to.

Their use of Matchlocks was much more outdated, but that had more to do with costs. Flintlocks were better, but harder to produce in large numbers. A good tradeoff when you're dealing with fighting across millions of square miles of Tartary, but a big problem when you're fighting a series of small, decisive engagements.

And that's the biggest fucking shit about these CMA practitioners. They seize upon China as 'different' a place where nobody ever questions how things work and they get by fine. A place that is defined by Hong Kong fantasies, like they are.

Except that's not China. That's a fucking scummy, carny corner of Chinese culture. It's like if pro-wrestling was defended as a real fighting system, and anyone who thinks it's a bunch of fakery doesn't get American culture, even if they are american.

>>1620693
Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. You don't want to learn from your ancestors go ahead

>>1620695
>China's culture of philosophy, food, medicine, combat and film is not really China

Other thread solved it in like 10 times less posts. You guys procrastenated too much

>>1620706
>You don't want to learn from your ancestors go ahead

About gods, demons, ghosts, and spirits? Nope, I sure don't. Happy as can be not to have that garbage floating around in my head.

When you masturbate, do you worry that your dead relatives are looking down on you disapprovingly, or only your deities? It must be hard to keep it up.

>>1620695
>millions of square miles of Tartary

autocorrect pwn

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>>1620719
Spirits and shamanism and the sort have been around since human existence even up until modern times, leaders and the greatest people of our world have been interested in them from Napoleon and Hitler to George Washington. Sorry you cannot comprehend such subjects

>>1620724

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartary

>>1620737
You think Hitler was one of the greatest people of our time? the fuck is wrong with you?

>>1620765
>leaders and the greatest people of our world have been interested in them
>that selective reading

During the same time period Catholicism was the law of England, which isn't very scientific.

>>1620765
I said leaders and greatest people

How do you throw chops if you fingers are making your eyes slanty?

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>>1620669
I am going into pretty murky territory here but I will address this.

Yin Yang is certainly a imaginary philosophical concept. But premodern people often applied imaginary philosophical concepts to things they could observe and repeat to explain them.

Chi meridians on which a number of chinese medical stuff is based, do roughly correspond to completely unrelated modern concepts like anatomy chains, which is still theoretical, but based on things we can observe when we cut a body apart

>>1620859
Can you make that clearer?

>>1620859
Is that a pun or do you want me to add something to what I wrote?

>>1620898
meant for
>>1620889

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>“I am learning to understand rather than immediately judge or to be judged. I cannot blindly follow the crowd and accept their approach. I will not allow myself to indulge in the usual manipulating game of role creation. Fortunately for me, my self-knowledge has transcended that and I have come to understand that life is best to be lived and not to be conceptualized. I am happy because I am growing daily and I am honestly not knowing where the limit lies. To be certain, every day there can be a revelation or a new discovery. I treasure the memory of the past misfortunes. It has added more to my bank of fortitude"

>>1620775
>Catholicism
>The Law of England
This thread is just trying to give me a seizure.

>>1620967
Not him but the secret societies have always ruled

>>1620967
6th century to 16th century, England was Catholic

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Also does anyone else find it wierd that what happened to Huo Yuanjia could have happened to bruce?

>Huo is considered a hero in China for defeating foreign fighters in highly publicised matches at a time when Chinese sovereignty was being eroded by foreign imperialism, concessions and spheres of influence.

Bruce was also known to upset people with exposure and even when he was young fighting with gangs. Chinese martial artists of high influence are being poisoned? Bruce also learned from people at the Jing Wu Association Pic related is from Fists of Fury and also game of death (not written by bruce) predicts how his son brandon lee dies.

>how do we fix kung fu

Take any modern MMA or UFC guy and have them go up against some serious kung-fu guys without any of their bullshit cage-match rules.

Literally the only thing I ever see people talk about with kung-fu is how some UFC crossfit douche would "totally just endure the pain and knock them out in one hit" or "put them in a hold".

Yeah, these are the guys who have entire styles dedicated to countering holds and developing new holds for people that use holds on you. A simple leg-lock isn't going to work on them.

People like cage fighting because they think it's "manly", not because it's actually any good. Show them that it's not any good, and they get hyper defensive about it.

The only way to win is to beat them at their own game. Get them in the cage, remove the cage rules, no gloves, have them go at it.

>>1621091
Bruce was also in perfect health also I think I remember bruce saying he was being followed or stalked by demons or an entity his whole life

>>1621095
Bring wushu into the next Olympics, have medals for Talou (form) and Sanda. I read the TKD has added points for technical strikes and new head sensors, but Sanda has more grappling and takedowns.

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Why couldn't Lee have a Chen Zhen to take them out

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>>1621166
Another thing Bruce died at betty ting peis apartment and when he collapsed she called raymond chow before calling an abulance or a doctor. It took them 1 hour and 30 minutes to get him there even though the hospital was 15 minutes away.

After he died she married a known triad dude


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oCsrRMD-ow

>>1620737

They have been imagined since then. What does that have to do with reality?

>>1620859

No. Anatomy chains and other Western meridian analogs are not observable at all. You're talking about one guy's crank theory like iridology

>>1620658
Are you ccp? Where have you been? This board needs more decent posters.

>>1621095
>hurr durr no rulez on duh streetz

Show me that mma fighters are bullshit.

>>1621713
Tell that to the secret societies that run out world