Were they a draw?

The faction? Yes

The solo wrestlers? Fuck no

never. not at any point.

roman lowered ratings while seff and dean brought record low ratings.

Yea Roman reigns

Just Roman. The ratings would never have tanked and reached record lows if Roman won at mania. Seth lost all the viewers and wwe never recovered.

Reigns is a draw

Reigns should have won clean at WM31. He'll never be the same because he didn't.

>Roman "Master of the Nielsen Drop" Reigns
>Dean "Record low Ratings" Ambrose
>Seth "The No Draw Outlaw" Rollins
No, none of them are draws

I think Roman can be.

>people thinking Roman was or can ever be a draw

Am I being worked here? Dude sucks, he's fat, technically unskilled, and dogshit on the mic. Not even that big of a guy, Dean is literally taller than him.

Lineage and "the look" can only do so much for you. It was up to him to get over and he failed. He is not a draw and will never be.

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>These clueless marks

Look, none of these fuckers can draw PERIOD.There isn't a single guy on the full-time WWE roster right now that has shown that his name alone will put asses in seats.

The only semi- individual draws that the WWE has had over the past decade were Cena to an extent and Brock and Rock for the dates they show up per year.

The biggest problems are that: 1) The casuals-whom Vince cares more about than any other group- only come out in mass when somebody special comes along(Think Austin or Hogan)- of which the Shield never were and will never be on that level.

Otherwise, the casuals only come back during Mania season and when one of their heroes from yesteryear come back for a few dates.

B. Vince, has turned off a good chunk of his most hardcore fans by pushing guys like Cena and Roman up their asses as white meat babyfaces for so long

Thus the majority of them don't attend any events except maybe Mania and the post-Mania Raw and more often than not pirate the weekly shows and ppvs online.

The only real drawing power that the WWE currently has is that of its own brand name.

I don't see any guys currently on the roster capable of becoming Austin or Hogan level draws as faces. What they could do is I dunno...turn Roman or Cena into Hollywood Hogan like mega heels and align them with an kickass faction.

Then we they could POSSIBLY get the 1997 Lex Luger and DDP effect wherein the heels have such nuclear heat that dudes that never draw a dime in their lives otherwise suddenly become huge draws based on their feud with the super over heels.

But the problem is that Vince is convinced that he can just manufacture a new Hogan using the same worn out tactics but in reality it didn't work in 1994 with Luger, it didn't work in 1995 with Diesel, it didn't work in 1996 with HBK, and it only halfway worked with Cena - his merchandise sales are amazing but the ratings and gates never reached anywhere near comparable levels to Hogan or Austin.

>>1537694
they should push Sting, he doesnt even need to wrestle

>>1537694
BMJ is clearly a draw

He stopped the ratings decline that Haitch's reign of terror brought

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>>1537694
>There isn't a single guy on the full-time WWE roster right now that has shown that his name alone will put asses in seats.

Based fatass could do it with a more "edgy" version of his gimmick like here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=givoM0j9HgU

But OFC WWE is a show for moms and pajeets so Vince could not allow it.

Still KO booked as the top tweener of the company would be a draw and i am 100% sure of it because everyone loves mr hamburger

>I don't see any guys currently on the roster capable of becoming Austin or Hogan level draws as faces. What they could do is I dunno...turn Roman or Cena into Hollywood Hogan like mega heels and align them with an kickass faction.

>Then we they could POSSIBLY get the 1997 Lex Luger and DDP effect wherein the heels have such nuclear heat that dudes that never draw a dime in their lives otherwise suddenly become huge draws based on their feud with the super over heels

I've been saying this for the past year, and I think it's THE move to make, but it will never happen because merch sales would take too big of a hit.

A world where little kids don't wanna buy Cena headbands and t-shirts because he's a big bad heel is Vince's worst nightmare.

>>1537699
ko is a fat fucking manlet he would draw worse than hbgay in the 90s

>>1537701
>Implying if Roman or Cena turned heel the men wouldn't cheer

>>1537702
I disagree.

>>1537705
cause youre a fat fucking manlet

>>1537694
...(continued)

The reality is that the mid to late 90s and the early 2000s demonstrated that Vince's formula of manufacturing a new Hogan level mega-star doesn't work anymore.

Austin for example, was never signed with the intention of making him the top face in the company. Vince, had to be begged by Shane and others to give in and run with him while WCW was raping them.

The Rock- another example, Vince TRIED his Hulk Hogan/White Meat babyface formula with him and it failed miserably! JR and Patterson convinced Vince to turn him heel which allowed him to display his personality and it got him over so well that fan reaction FORCED him to turn him back face.

Look, I get what some of you are saying that a guy like Owens could be a draw and I agree on some level. The biggest problem preventing new mega-draws from being created is that Vince is a control-freak who has won every battle he's even been involved in and is no longer surrounded by wrestling minds that he respects(like Patterson and Brisco for example)- so barely anybody can tell him that his old ways won't work in 2016.

The way to make new individual draws in 2016 is plain and simply to push the guys that get over based on the stronger crowd reaction that they receive- which is old school wrestling booking 101.

If the majority of the fans boo Roman- then turn him heel! If the majority of fans pop big for guys like Cesaro and Rollins- then push them as faces!

It's no exact science, but in a business you'll be more than likely to turn a profit if you cater to the majority of your customer's desires. Not doing so and actually doing the exact opposite in-spite of them will have the opposite effect.

>>1537725
>Vince's formula of manufacturing a new Hogan level mega-star

He didn't do shit, he just offered Hogan big bucks to leave the AWA

>>1537703

The smarks will cheer when it first happens- like what happened the night Hogan first turned heel- out of pure excitement of a stale act finally doing something cool.

Then they'll boo them to their long-awaited hearts desire for probably half a year depending on how well their heel turns are booked. Then eventually, if all goes well YES the male fans will start to come around to the now "Cool heel" Cena or Reigns and start cheering them again which will force creative to turn them back face.

Again, it's all about catering to what your audience/customers actually want rather than what a 70 year old with a God Complex wants.

>>1537728

WRONG. Vince's model of nationally televising his shows, cross-promoting Hogan with pop-stars,MTV, and actors, while merchandising the living fuck out of Hogan - a guy who couldn't work for shit but had a great look and was a great promo- as an American hero at a time when America was ultra-conservative and in the midst of a Cold War on an international scale was something that had never been done before to that extreme.

Verne could have done it...but didn't. Hell, Fritz Von Erich could have done it with his very marketable kids...but didn't. Because they didn't have the balls or foresight to go against the grain.

And for that, Vince deserves big credit. The problem is that Vince has become those same old promoters that refused to change with the times. Example: The Cold War has been over for 20+ years, yet Vince booked an All-American Hero(Cena) against a Russian anti-American(Rusev) as a major Wrestlemania program in 20 fucking 15! That alone shows you how out of touch the man is!

>>1537742
Hogan was over as shit before he went to WWF again there were near riots when he didn't win the belt

Of course Vince marketed him well but nobody could fuck that up, it's like having a basketball team with Michael Jordan and all you have to do is put pieces around him

Reminder, main reason WWE has never regained Stone Cold levels of popularity is due solely to the rise of UFC.
UFC became what WWE has never been, real, and ate into the ratings like never before. Wrestling is so incredibly disliked among most people. It's laughed at and viewed as an autistic and childish pursuit.
WWE became focused on in ring form and storylines but never has been able to get both of those things right in quite a while.
Get flippyshit and you'll get more viewers in short term.
Get better characters and better storylines that are actually not boring and you'll get more viewers in long term.
WWE will never touch it's height again, even if the greatest of all bookers took over. That era was a time so radically different from now. UFC had no weight.
MMA was just beginning.
Boxing was in a decline.
Teenagers were looking for something more mature and edgy.
All these factors combined for a shit ton of ratings.

>>1537746

Okay, but if it was that unfuckupable then why didn't Verne do it? Why didn't Fritz Von Erich or Crockett sign him and do it themselves?

They all could have done it but didn't because they were afraid to break with what had worked for them up to that point...which is my entire point.

Vince WAS cutting edge in 1985 just like Verne WAS cutting edge in 1975 but times change. Vince has now become a more business savvy version of 1980s Verne Gagne.

>>1537762
Verne was going to give him the belt but he wanted a piece of Hogans NJPW earnings and Hogan balked

Like you said Vince marketed him well but Hogan was already over before and did nothing much for his character

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITw8-8_3reA

If it didn't say AWA in the background I wouldn't know what era this was, even Mean Gene was interviewing him

>>1537751
>WWE will never touch it's height again
>it's

i just can't trust someone who can't read or write

>>1537763
>i wouldn't know what era this was

Then you're blind because he looks like a cancer patient compared to WWF Hogan

>>1537782
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ym7l0RAxEo

NEVER HAPPY "EVEN IF THEY WERE A DRAW I'D STILL BITCH" WEE MARK