Ninkokuodojo.blogspot.com.au This place is opening up near

>>1528045
A majority of those schools aren't legit. They usually just teach you some derivate of Aikjiu-jutsu combined with Kobudo or just utter BS. You can give it a try, but don't get your hopes up. I went to the website and it seems to be imo opinion some scam. The school you linked is promoting all kinds of different japanese martial arts, which were formed before the meiji era. I doubt that any American (I suppose it's in America) has mastered Ninjustu, some derivate of Aikjiu-jutsu, Kenjustu, Iai-jutsu/Battō-jutsu and Naginata-jutsu. Some of these martial arts have have contradicting mentalities and philosophical roots concerning each other. A school with a verified historical lineage, doesn't exist anymore. The last person to officially inherit the full spectrum of ninja techniques Jinichi Kawakami had so far as I know only a few students and the only one dojo to open outside of Japan was in Spain.

>>1528045
Its nonsense.

The guy seems to have done his homework on Japanese martial arts and history, and it seems like he's more genuinely interested in that part. Bujinkan is the "standard" ninja martial arts association you'll encounter.
If you're looking for effective, applicable martial arts, stay the fuck clear; if you wanna pay money for a guy to teach you how be a pretend ninja, go ahead.

>>1528590
The guy behind the website has been on this site.

you can read the exchange here
>>1462705

That group is affiliateed with bujinkan

>>1528045
I would avoid any martial arts that is affiliated with Bujinkan. The japanese themselve don't take it seriously and believe it's scam. I have a bujinkan dojo near my place, too. I've visited the dojo out of curiosity and for 6 weeks with them. They just steal techniques from other japanese styles and label it as ninjutsu. Ninjutsu isn't an hand-to-hand comabat style. It's a collection of unconventional and guerilla style tactics to defeat an enemy. Just google the bujinkan/takamatsu group, do a bit research and you'll see that it's BS.

>>1528045
Videos shown on site show pretty much what I expected a ninjer school to accomplish. Compliant drills, where nothing is taught apart from a make believe dance.

People much smarter and better fighters and historians have talked this trough over the years both in Japan and outside of it, but here's the tl;dr:

Bujinkan budo taijutsu is a lie. It's lead by a charlatan. If you want real ninjutsu, go and ask Otake from katori shinto ryu.

Or go and ask if Nihon kobudo kyokai know any surviving ninjutsu ryuha. Any other source on ninja are lying or delusional, including anyone associated with Bujinkan or its offshoots.

>>1529136
>Ninkokuodojo.blogspot.com.au
>videos

Wow this guy always went on about how there is poor quality control in the bujinkan but there is all this good stuff, then he post videos showing the lack of quality control.


If your lurking here, no that is not "Good bujinkan" that is not good anything. The weapons stuff from the Tasmanian dojo especially made me cringe

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>>1529154

Yeah, I'm lurking.

Tasmania dojo video is from an instrctional series. It's designed for students.

Anything you didn't like about the other videos? Could you be specific.

>>1531130
I don't know why, but I'll humor you. You won't change your mind, but what the hell. If some poor sob reading this and hoping to find actual working martial art, then my work is done if he is saved from joining bujinkan.

Bujinkan adelaide. The whole fucking video. Compliant ukes, who lose stuff even before tori even does anything. Tori blocking kicks with forearms. Uke lunge attacks that end with them standing there and letting tori look awesome doing bunch of complicated stuff to them. Especially that knife defense.
Those rolling ground crappling moves that end in... Tori having an imaginary piggy back ride.

All of this kata, lack of control, stupid moves, ragdoll ukes... And only in one video! I wonder what the other videos will have in store.

And here, I will show you a golden standard of what real koryu kata looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQB5Lc1C_a8

Look at the lack of ragdoll. Look at the control. Look at the lack of stupid fucking moves like that whacking downward three times in a row move in that ninjer video.

The bottom line is, if you want to learn how to fight, you go to your nearest boxing, bjj, kyokushin, judo, kickboxing, muay thai, sambo, or grappling class and learn there.

If you want to be part of living, breathing history, you go to koryu.com and look around if there's anything near you. If there isn't, then back to those fighting arts listed above. Note that Bujinkan or its derivatives are not anywhere there. I repeat, it is not there. Historians in and out of Japan consider it to be joke. Martial artists in and out of Japan consider it to be a joke. The only reason it still is here because frankly, ninjas are cool.

And ninjas will continue to be cool, despite the downright pathetic quality of the "last true ninjas".

The funny thing is also that most of the Bujinkan students are foreigners, mostly western people, who have some strong fable for ninjas. Bujinkan is a scam to squeeze some money out of delusioned and autistic gaijins.

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Any thought about Jinichi Kawakami and his Banke Shinoboden school?

I'm quit interesting on learning ninja arts from his school because he is honest about that modern society don't need ninja anymore because of the internet, firearms and better medicine.

>>1531685
He doesn't teach anymore, since he got old he has been spending his time creating a museum to preserve the history of Iga and Koga and it's ninjas. His student Yasushi Kiyomoto opened a dojo in Sagamihara-shi. It seems that Kawakami's school is the last authentic school that teaches ninjutsu and he can back it to some degree up, with some actual evidence.

>>1531723
The thing is, nobody has seen that evidence.

He studied under Masazo Ishida, or so he says, but the problem is that nobody has any evidence on who Masazo Ishida was.

Besides, in this case as well, only place you should be looking for genuine ninjutsu is from koryu arts registered in Nihon kobudo kyokai.

>>1531735
There is probably no genuine ninjutsu anymore. None of the modern schools can fully prove that they are "Koryu".

>>1531747
*can't

>>1531747
Oh but they can. They just need to provide proof that they were created before Meiji restoration.

Case in point, once again, tenshin shoden katori shinto ryu. Which has ninjutsu in their curriculum. Who are registered in Nihon Kobudo kyokai.

There's a reason why "Modern schools of ninjutsu" is a fucking wikipedia page.

>>1531751
>Besides, in this case as well, only place you should be looking for genuine ninjutsu is from koryu arts registered in Nihon kobudo kyokai.

I kinda misunderstood this.
Never knew that there was an organization/commission in charge of registering schools into a authentic koryu list.
Makes thinks much more easier.

>>1531751
>Nihon kobudo kyokai
Is there some similar list, which defines an art authentic, but not necessarily koryu. A list consisting only of real gendai budo?

>>1531130
I really didnt like any of them, but essentially what >>1531328
said.

The point of Uke is to challenge tori, he has to give attacks that pose a threat of injury. both need to display zanshin throughout. He is not supposed to deliver a half hearted attack and then go limp while tori does his thing. Where is the zanshin?

Alot of the problems can be dismissed as teaching demos and frankly fight choreography. but they certainly do not display the proper attitude of a uke/uchitachi, nor the essential values of Japanese weapons handling arts.

If you have another video which you believes truly does justice to bujinkan training I would love to see it.

Oh and the first vids been removed from youtube, but "ninja legend" really?

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>>1531328

Thank you for your time and input. It is appreciated.

I don't disagree with you either, but I need to add a caveat.

For every hour a Tenshin Katori Shinto Ryu practitioner puts into kenjutsu, a Bujinkan practitioner puts in a minute. Most Bujinkan practitioners with 10 years of Bujinkan training have barely 6 months of kenjutsu training. It is logical that more specialised arts like TSKSR will have better sword technique, because they put in more time. (The video are also masters)

The strength and weakness of the Bujinkan is vast generalisation. Every Bujinkan practitioner can use over 100 weapons. Every Bujinkan godan can pick ANY weapon and use it effectively, whether or not they have ever trained with it or not. This is the main outcome we seek from training, adaptability rather than mastership.

Bujinkan will never look or be as good as specialist arts, that's just a logical fact.

I don't disagree either that arts like Judo, BJJ, Boxing and so on are better fighting arts, because they are, but the fundamental misunderstanding is that Bujinkan is a fighting art, because it's not.

Bujinkan is a survival art. The purpose of Bujinkan training is to avoid fighting, escape dangerous situations and protect VIPs.

>>1531747

Ninjutsu is just uncommon sense.

It isn't a secret.

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>>1531920
>The strength and weakness of the Bujinkan is
>vast generalisation

This is why I was never able to take Bujinkan seriuosly. But it's just my opinion.

>Ninjutsu is just uncommon sense.
>It isn't a secret.

This is pretty vague. I actually think it is the epitome of common sense if your ultimate goal is to win. Especially in the kind of professional branch ninjas were engaged in. Ninjutsu follows a similar mentality as the The Art of War from Sun Tzu. Both try to highlight flexibility and unorthodox methods instead of following a certain fixed strategic pattern.

But I'm just splitting hairs and martial arts has a lot of philosophical dept and mabe I am just disregarding Bujinkan's worth as a MA, because I am biased.

>>1531814
Not that I know of. Gendai budo do not have that similar historical and cultural significance as genuine koryu schools have.

Somebody has said that training koryu is more akin to learning history physically. There's reason behind every moment and movement, and people have died in the history of these skills.

>>1531920
>It is logical that more specialised arts like TSKSR
If katori shinto ryu is specialized then I'm Masaaki Hatsumi telling you to lay off the drugs.

Have you ever seen the list of things katori shinto ryu teaches?

There's everything from fucking castle building and location choosing, spells, shurikens, ninjutsu, swords, spears, battlefield dressing and battlefield communication, house planning to noticing certain scents meant to distract dogs. Katori shinto ryu lives on old esoteric buddhist beliefs, including everything from philosophy to martial arts.

To say that it's specialized paints a big stroke way off the target.

I'm not going to even mention anything else about bujinkan but this:
>Bujinkan is a survival art. The purpose of Bujinkan training is to avoid fighting, escape dangerous situations and protect VIPs.
You do realize, even if this was completely true(which it isn't) that there are much better options even if one wasn't looking for a martial art, but a survival art?

>>1531920
Katori shinto ryu is not specialized, its a sogo bujutsu, that includes everything form spearmanship to grappling.

you will not find that kind of sloppy uke/tori dynamic in any vibrant koryu.

>Bujinkan is a survival art. The purpose of Bujinkan training is to avoid fighting, escape dangerous situations and protect VIPs.

You know what promotes survival? zanshin, familiarity with adrenaline dumps, proper use of weapons. you wont find in any of the stuff you posted on that website.

>>1528590
>The guy seems to have done his homework on Japanese martial arts and history, and it seems like he's more genuinely interested in that part.
J-HEMA

>>1532095
No, historical Japanese martial arts are koryu.

>>1521710

>>1531751
But this is the problem, ninjutsu is only a few strategies of guerrilha, in tenshin shoden katori shinto ryu this make a insignificant part of the curriculum, is impossible a pré-Meiji full school

>>1532973
There are, or were purely "tactical"bugei or koryu as we now call them, today they are mostly of scholarly interest, I dont know if they survived, but they are well documented.

>>1532973
What is it that you are looking for?

>>1532019
>>1531963
>>1531920
Here's full curriculum of TSKSR:

kenjutsu
iaijutsu
bōjutsu
naginatajutsu
sōjutsu
shuriken
jujutsu
strategic study
tactics
chikujo (fortifications)
gunbaiho (troop movement and positioning)
noroshi (smoke signaling)
ninjutsu

Plus sciences observing the interplay of yin and yang including tenmon chiri fusui (astrology and topography) and personal development including heihō (the way of peace).

This on top of the esoteric buddhist mysticism they practice, that includes spells and charms.

Tell me how TSKSR is specialized in kenjutsu.

>>1534874
Here's a quick look at the basics of the mysticism. Starts at 28m24s.

https://youtu.be/mRfQjj8ltEg?t=28m24s