Interested in going to a full contact karate school. Should I

Ask under which rules they compete. That will tell you everything you want.

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>>1451552
Thanks. I wish it was easier than having to call each school individually.

>>1453163
Kyokushin is the way to go. They are karate if karate wasn't pusified unrealistic telographed choreography.

You'll learn to punch. Hard. You'll learn to take a punch. And you'll learn how to train.

>>1453174
you mean you learn how to keep your hands low and your head exposed while you stand in one spot and try to tank body shots?
because that's kyokushin in a nutshell

give me one good reason why they don't punch to the head? You can't

>>1453174
I know kyokushin is arguably the best karate style for full contact but the closest school near my location is an hour drive away...

>>1453177
Make the sacrifice.

>>1453176
Kyokushin also forges the body into a fighting machine. They know how to make you hurt.

http://www.gmaskarate.com/
Closest Kyokushin school near me. Does it look legit?

>>1453177
Shop around first. Look at all of the options and try out the free classes that they have- if they don't offer at least 1 free trial class then they aren't worth going to.

Ignore all the fanboys telling you to look for one specific style- if the techniques are effective then you should be able to tell fairly quickly with a little bit of thought.

I shopped around every boxing place in the city I live in before finding the karate dojo that I go to, really it'll take a little bit of time but just go through the effort of finding a school that you enjoy.

>>1453487
It's difficult to tell unless you actually go there and see him teach. If someone here was heavily involved in the community and knew many of the major tournaments and stuff they would be able to vet the instructor more easily, but I doubt you'd find someone like that here. Go there and watch them train, and then try a class or two, you'll see if it's good or not

>>1453176
"IN COMPETITIONS" let me repeat that again "IN COMPETITIONS" you can't hit the face cuz they fight bare handed is for the safety of the player, in practice you learn kyokushin to a full extent, kyokushin is the same as shotokan but whit a heavy focus on sparring and training, however is still karate, defence and attacks for the face are allowed, the rules of competition are not a reflexion of the full skill set of the art, tkd has punches blocks, knees, elbows, throws and grappling

>>1453176
That's only in competition. They still teach you to face punch.

>>1455217
But sports teach you bad habits
not the killer instinct you need to survive in the streets

>>1455228
Just get a gun if you want to survive the streets.

>>1455228
"Alternative Sports Thread"
"No don't learn that, it's too sporty"

>>1451496
Lean towards kyokushin but if there isn't one near you just ask if they do kumite. If not, leave.

>>1454062
In competitions, you can punch towards the face and if you stop with control it's still your point.

>>1454062
safety of the player is bullshit, somehow getting kicked in the head is less dangerous than getting punched in the head. Besides the fact we know now that wearing gloves does nothing to prevent traumatic brain injury so really boxing is more hardcore than kyocuckshin

it's just bad habit forming shit, along with those retarded ass self sacrificing wheel kicks they are so fond of throwing

>>1455326
>so really boxing is more hardcore
>boxing
>hardcore
Boxing is a joke. Any style where you can only use your fists and nothing else doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as actual martial arts.

>>1454062
You absolutely ruined any point you might have made in your post when you ended with trying to sell tkd as a complete martial art

>walk into kyokushin dojo to check it out
>all the students are white guys about 17-18 years old
>instructor is a serious-looking built white dude with blonde hair in his mid 30s
>he's wearing a black gi

literally felt like i was walking into the cobra kai dojo

>>1455391
That would be so dope if I could find that. The places I've been to have all either been filled with people who'd been doing it for like 40 years or kids 5-10 years younger than me. Would be nice to have someone at least around my age to connect with.

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>>1451496
>Makoto fetish
Good choice.

Also, pick Kyokushin.

>>1455395

No, that's not all that dope.

I've never seen a kyokushin school wear black. Anything other than white throws up a red flag.

>>1455391
Find out if they're in good standing with their national or international organization and which organization that is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyokushin#Split_after_Oyama.27s_death

If they aren't, it's a good sign the instructor went his own way so he could make shit up and start promoting himself to higher grades, and what it means for you is you're going to end up with a rank that won't be honored elsewhere and might not be allowed to enter competitions.

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Post more Makoto

>>1455326
boxers recieve lots of blows to the head in 1 match in kyokushin 1 kick to the head is enough
>>1455367
tkd is the same thing as karate with focus on kicks

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>>1455759

>>1455490
What about Goju-ryu? That seems to be the only other knockdown-ish style in my area.

>>1456503
/asp/ agrees goju is the best martial arts style, it's just very hardcore so it's increasingly rare which is why nobody suggests you try to find it
the fact is, kyokushin is based on gojus striking, they just decided to get rid of all the grappling for some reason.
Without cross training you would be hard pressed to find a more complete style that incorporates both striking and grappling without leaning too heavily on either

>>1456503
Post the school and we'll take a look at whether that particular school is worthwhile. Goju doesn't have the quality control of the major knockdown styles. It's effectively just another strip mall krotty style. An individual school MIGHT be basically kyokushin plus weird body hardening exercises and crappling or it might be nothing but endless katas and compliant wrist grabbing.

>>1456626 is trying to force a silly meme that isn't true. /asp/ has no particular respect for goju.

>>1456791
http://meibukan-goju-ryu-usa.com/
Closest Goju school and it's an hour away. RI sucks. Nothing but Shotokan, Uechi-ryu, and Ed Parker's kenpo crap around here.

>>1456838
>http://meibukan-goju-ryu-usa.com/
http://www.meibukan-goju-ryu-usa.com/classes.htm lists nothing but kata. That makes it look to me like you'll be doing a lot of kata.

https://www.google.com/search?q=meibukan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=meibukan&tbm=vid There are a few videos of good sparring in here but it's almost all yakusoku kumite (compliant choreographed fight skits) and kata. Meibukan appears to be a whole organization, not just one dojo. There's not much on the web to tell us what this particular dojo is like, but I notice the instructor is really old, and a lot of martial arts instructors turn away from aliveness once their bodies can't take it any more. Even if he were a badass in the 70s he might be a flower child nowadays.

You going to live in Rhode Island forever? There's jiujitsu in your area. I'm sure there's boxing. If you want to learn to fight I'd pick up one of those. If you really want to do karate for cultural reasons you have crap options but you can still do it. Just accept that you might have a good time but you're probably not going to learn to fight.

>>1457273
I did have my heart set on learning karate. I'll have to call some schools that don't list their style and maybe I'll get lucky finding a full contact school. If not then maybe I will take jujitsu or something,

>>1457300

I can understand. I was the same way. Finally got my fix of real karate, but had to move to Japan to do it. Now that I'm back in the US I think I'd rather do good boxing than bad karate.

>>1457360
http://oceanstatekarate.com/studio/index.php?main_page=page&id=3
This school seems like it might be good? They mention training heavily in sparring but I don't know much about Isshin-ryu.

>>1453201
>Kyokushin also forges the body into a fighting machine.
Goju Karate does that, too.

>>1455228
this desu senpai

>>1455326
>somehow getting kicked in the head is less dangerous than getting punched in the head.
20+ punches to the head is a lot worse than a kick or two.

>>1458320

This line: "We consider our Karate art to be “traditional” rather than a modern “sport” Karate." tells you they're garbage.

http://www.oceanstatekarate.com/p6.php look at this guy. Black belt collector, member of a pay-to-play "hall of fame," red and white belt without nearly enough gray hair, etc.

http://www.oceanstatekarate.com/p2.php Holy shit, finally, this guy has his geneology backward. Isshinryu in the first place is a combination of Shorinryu and Gojuryu. So he re-derived Shorinryu back out of Isshinryu, appears to have kept pure Isshinryu techniques, and then made up a karate-jutsu system out of thin air, and awarded himself a 9th degree black belt in it. Why not tenth? Fuck if I know.

Let's say he's just teaching Isshinryu. Luckily for you I have a second degree black belt in Isshinryu. I can tell you with some authority that it's terrible and a waste of time. The techniques are weird, and unnatural, it's mostly kata based, and by and large most schools have been seriously infected with pressure point bullshit from George Dillman.

Isshinryu training is going to be 80% slow-motion kata and compliant choreography and then you'll put on pads and spar a couple of times a week (badly) like bad kickboxers, having thrown away everything you spent the other 80% of your time doing.

I would sincerely have been better off in Japan had I not trained anything than I was with my Isshinryu training. I really can't advocate against doing that garbage strenuously enough.

>>1459104
>This line: "We consider our Karate art to be “traditional” rather than a modern “sport” Karate." tells you they're garbage.
I went to a traditional Okinawan Karate school for a month, and ended up sparring more than 9 times, at least 3 of the times full contact. Their drills weren't compliant after you got the basics, and you would get hit full force if you didn't block an attack because your reflexes and reaction were too slow. The sensei said something about OG Karate people training in all kinds of things, and supplementary training being part of traditional Karate. He's like an MMA guy that just really, really, really likes Karate. They do a shit load of Karate, but you see Boxing combos with head movement, Kickboxing combos, Judo throws, and ground game.
Want to know what style it was? Goju Karate.
It was pretty interesting, but I just liked MMA better to become more well rounded, so I train at the MMA gym I currently train at now, but Goju was pretty neat. They had what /asp/ calls self defense aspects, and I got kicked in the balls multiple times during drills, and the drills were not compliant.

I'm not Goju Guy, but I've trained Goju Karate, and it was pretty legit.
It was like MMA + Karate + Self Defense.

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>>1459617

Yeah, yeah, we all get it. Your school was one of the 1% of schools that didn't suck, that coincidentally 99% of the commentators on the internet have trained at. It is ever thus.

It's tiresome, really. Traditional karate is actually MMA and has ground game and boxing-level punching and everything else. It's the best really. That's why karate guys are winning everything left and right. You have Machida and... Machida, actually.

Your drills I'm sure had perfect aliveness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjmLWj5WCU and were basically no-holds-barred fights to the death. You certainly didn't have prescripted attacks and defenses with a good guy who was scripted to win and a bad guy who was scripted to lose. Your gym was awesome. Just like every other krotty joint we are going to hear about in this thread and every other.

http://www.makoto-do.com/About%20Us/about_us.htm
trash

>>1459104
Okay well fuck that place then. Thanks for warning me, anon. https://nemadshotokan.wordpress.com/ This is starting to look like the only decent school left for me and for all I know it might be bogus too.

>>1459676
I'm being completely serious. But you're exaggerating.

>You certainly didn't have prescripted attacks and defenses with a good guy who was scripted to win and a bad guy who was scripted to lose
Every gym has that, be it Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, or MMA.

>>1459676
>Your drills I'm sure had perfect aliveness
Drills are there to teach technique, and application of technique. With less aliveness, you're more able to practice basic technique. With a little more aliveness, you get to practice technique under pressure.
Humans are better than punching bags for practicing technique.
After this point, it's more about application of technique. After that point, it's just very restrictive sparring, which is all about timing, reaction time, and your mind against your opponents, not about learning technique and complex techniques for situations that happen often like 1, 1-2, 1-2-3, and other stuff.

>>1461381
>Okay well fuck that place then.
He's ignorant and delusional.

>Thanks for warning me, anon.
If you're not posting bait, you're ignorant and delusional.

Ignorance and delusion can spread quickly, more quickly than our Pro Wrestling cancer.

>>1461433
I wasn't posting bait, reading his explanation it sounded like that school I asked about had some fishy credentials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqPxDr4J4iA

So Kyokushin is basically just about learning to accept and deal with pain?

>>1461443
The traditional part could potentially mean that they don't spar very often at all, and that their drills don't have very much pressure.
To say that it absolutely means that they won't teach you how to fight and won't help you develop skill is complete bullshit garbage nonsense.

>>1462384
>don't spar at all
>without much pressure
Those are the two fucking things that indicate when a gym won't teach you how to fight whatsoever. If you are not sparring regularly and you are not training against an opponent who resists (accompanied by some drilling), then you're wasting your time. I do not understand why you would vehemently defend these flaws.

>>1461777
proof of the concept right here
>I'm sorry, I must formally apologize for being better at fighting than you, please understand I don't know how to fight ineffectually like you guys

>>1461777
>So Kyokushin is basically just about learning to accept and deal with pain?
You also learn Karate kicks, Karate punches, Karate blocks, and some other Karate stuff.

>>1462445
>I do not understand why you would vehemently defend these flaws.
If you're not posting bait, then you're under the impression that I'm defending a lack of sparring and pressure.

I'm not saying that I'm defending a lack of sparring and pressure.

I'm saying that a gym saying that they're traditional doesn't mean that they don't spar, and it doesn't mean that they don't use pressure.

A gym being traditional does not mean that they don't spar and that they don't use pressure, is what I'm saying.

A traditional gym can use sparring and pressure.

Traditional gyms do use sparring and pressure.
That doesn't mean that all traditional gyms use sparring and pressure.

That's what I'm saying, you ignorant, delusional, lacking of reading comprehension, fucking stupid, cunt.
If you're not posting bait.

>>1462492
>be better at fighting
>gets his ass kicked all the time
???

>>1461401
>Every gym has that, be it Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, or MMA.

Feel free to pretend you don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. If you had techniques you didn't apply in sparring you didn't really learn those techniques.

>>1461425
>After that point, it's just very restrictive sparring, which is all about timing, reaction time, and your mind against your opponents, not about learning technique and complex techniques for situations that happen often like 1, 1-2, 1-2-3, and other stuff.

This is what someone who doesn't know what sparring is would say.

>>1462384
The "traditional" line is a red flag that starts us down the road of all the other fishy shit I highlighted in my post. That gym is garbage and if you're defending it you don't have anything to add to the conversation.

>>1462613
You're trying to say that "traditional" by itself doesn't necessarily mean anything, except here in the real world we've all seen that without exception schools that bother to emphasize that they are "traditional" are doing it to contrast themselves with martial arts that are practiced as combat sports. Find an exception. I'll wait.

All the way back in the beginning of the thread, OP said he wanted to do full contact and asked if that meant he wanted sports oriented or traditional. He 100% wants sports oriented and 100% doesn't want traditional. This is not up for debate among people who haven't been deluded by bad training.

>>1461381
>rules:
>Do not ask to be taught a Kata
>Pay your dues and promotion fees on time
>bow to any blackbelt while thanking them

>Remember that this is a warrior school
>When sparring be sensitive to your opponent’s needs, feeling and safety

>more 5th dans than 4th or 3rd
How does that even work?

Also they seem to have put an excessive amount of effort in the site

I'd ask how much do black belt promotion fees cost, they might be shlomo goldstein tier
Also isn't 90 dollars a month way too exaggerated?

>>1463152
$90 a month doesn't seem that bad compared to some of the other schools around I've looked at.

>>1463142
>All the way back in the beginning of the thread, OP said he wanted to do full contact and asked if that meant he wanted sports oriented or traditional. He 100% wants sports oriented and 100% doesn't want traditional. This is not up for debate among people who haven't been deluded by bad training.
I'm not even sure sports karate is the right choice either because all the ones I've been coming across mostly do gymnastic kata bullshit and light contact.

>>1463152

Yeah, those rules are a problem. Even minor ones like you can still wear an engagement ring in class? That's a damn good clue that they don't go hard.

Given that they host the shitty dojo we talked about upthread, I'd say there's no reason to look at them. https://nemadshotokan.wordpress.com/about/ocean-state-karate-jujutsu/

>>1463200

There's crappy sport and good sport, but there's no good non-sport, because practicing your martial art as a sport is the only way to get enough alive practice to build real skill.

Seriously watch this and understand it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjmLWj5WCU Kata and light contact tag aren't alive either.

>>1463372
Shit, they do host them. Well I'm not going there either I guess. I don't suppose you know of any good looking schools around the RI area do you? Anything that's not a McDojo or karate for babies and seniors would be nice. I'm really reaching the end of my rope here.

>>1464362

Sorry, I'm stuck down here in North Carolina. I'll be in Fall River for Halloween but I suspect shit will be closed around the holiday. And I'll be drunk as fuck.

I'll do some googling tomorrow and post something in this thread though.

>>1462765
he would have been fucking those guys up if he could punch to the head, the fact that they instinctual didn't move or parry accidental strikes to the face means they are unable to deal with them
same thing would happen to all those kyokushin fellows if you told them no more body punches, suddenly they woudn't know what to do with their hands

>>1455490
>>1451496
>>1453163
Erika Nagai gave me my karateka onna fetish.

>>1465572
You're an idiot. If you and your sparring partner agree to a certain rule why wouldn't you be caught off guard if they go against the rules? And do you honestly think kyokushin fighters wouldn't punch to the face in an actual fight? Are you really that dumb?

>>1465799
if their training day in and day out is to go for body shots they will not be able to effectually hit anyone in the face and more importantly be unable to avoid a flurry to the head because they lack the proper head movement skills

fact is guarding your head should be a reflex, if they agree to rules it doesn't matter because their reflex should be to parry a shot to the face if they trained it

>>1455228
>not the killer instinct you need to survive in the streets

Kek I got this mental image of a fat neckbeard with a Bud K catalog who has never been out of the suburbs.

Because they're the kind of faggots that say this.

If you want to learn how to instantly turn aggression on, go enlist, or actually fight in the ring.

Those are just about your two only options. Two nights a week for an hour at your Bunjinkin Dojo isn't going to teach you shit.

>>1456503
>What about Goju-ryu? That seems to be the only other knockdown-ish style in my area.

Do they fight and send fighters to knockdown tournaments? Or otherwise produce fighters?

If the answer is no, avoid. Because that's the vast majority of Goju. Don't let meme Goju faggot lie to you, you're much more likely to find a Goju place that does point sparring or no sparring and doesn't produce fighters than you are one that does.

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>>1464670
Thank you. I hope you can find something decent in this McDojo infested area. Even anything a little into Mass. would be good. Just stay away from any of the Ed Parker/Kenpo Karate schools. They're trash.

>>1463142
>without exception schools that bother to emphasize that they are "traditional" are doing it to contrast themselves with martial arts that are practiced as combat sports.
Your "without exception" is exaggeration. But yeah? What else should they call themselves seeing as they practice arts that are commonly termed and classified as traditional arts.
>He 100% wants sports oriented and 100% doesn't want traditional.
Except full contact and traditional are not mutually exclusive. And for you to claim they are is bullshit.
>>1463398
>Seriously watch this and understand it
Or he could just look at traditional schools that do spar full contact, which they do, Instead of listening to you pull shit out of your ass and dickride Matt Thornton

>>1467255
>traditional schools that spar full contact
Yeah all 5 of them. Please post some examples

>>1451496
Don't just look at kyo, it has offshoots, remember?

>>1453201
until they get dropped by a kick boxer

>>1455228
sorry to say but thats a bullshit argument as long as punches to the face are implemented in sparring

>>1455326
in karate yes it is less dangerous, they do pasy foot kicks that would brake against a MT fighters shin kicks arnt devastating like MT

>>1455347
if you are saying boxing is shit you are delusional, ask a real boxer for a punch in the face some time and you see how effective your little karate chop to the chest is against him

>>1468299
you don't chop to the chest, you chop to the throat, sometimes to the bicep. it's the most effective way to damage the area

>all these faggots trying to start shit and play the my styles dick is bigger than yours game
Literally scum. Even shitty martial arts can teach you stuff if you have a solid foundation already, even if only what people who do that shitty art will try on you.

>>1455347
>Ill take any boxer with my ultimate asian style
>My style teaches to win, no limits
>punched in the face
>you cant do that
>Muh ultimate style

>>1467178
I used to trash Kenpo, but up in the NE theres a guy called Eric Butler. I met a sparred a kid who trained under him for 8 years, and this was years after he stopped training. He still hit like a Mack Truck, muscle memory to put me in a headlock in every instance, as a boxer I was shocked to see any Eastern Martial Artist perform so well. They usually get their asses kicked pretty easily with a basic understanding of boxing/kickboxing.

I don't know if it's just Eric Butler, or Kenpo, but I tend not to shit on either of those anymore.

>I still shit on Goju
>hop like deadly bunny

>>1468337
>Holy Shit the boxer tucks his chin
>He keeps his arms up
>He doesn't punch and leave his arms out there like my sensei taught
>I cant reach his throat or biceps
>SENSEI! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME!?

>>1468796
Just kick his legs. I remember watching a karate vs boxing match and that's all the karateka did to defeat the boxer. They can't do shit.

>>1468679
>boxing is the ultimate style, nothing can beat it
>can't punch with my elbows, that's cheating
>can't grapple
>can't kick
>can't knee
It's shit.

>>1468293

We imported shin kicks from MT a long time ago. You won't find much difference between a kyokushin or seidokaikan player's mawashi geri and a thai boxer's round kick in the 21st century.

Unlike the "traditional" martial arts, any martial art practiced as a sport has to keep evolving or lose.

>>1468796
then I wouldn't use a chop if it's not there

it's kind of funny, putting the blade of your hand into someones throat is jiujitsu 101 for creating a frame, but if you use it as a striking edge instead of a pushing one it doesn't work?

come on son, just think for a moment here

>>1463142
>This is what someone who doesn't know what sparring is would say.
>I don't have a real argument so I'm going to say that he doesn't spar
Nice shitposting.

>>1463200
>He 100% wants sports oriented and 100% doesn't want traditional.
What's with this delusion about traditional schools not sparring? Sparring is a part of traditional training.

>>1469238

You think compliant drills are "restrictive sparring," missing the point that sparring is not cooperative and drills with designated roles are cooperative. You fail to understand the importance of intent. This is a common failing of people who think yakusoku kumite is all you need to become a competent fighter.

>>1469244

Not really. We've had those discussions here on /asp/ for years now. Plenty of traditional martial arts, including Okinawan and Japanese, contained zero free sparring.

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>>1468679
>Ill take any boxer with my ultimate asian style

>>1469245
>You think compliant drills are "restrictive sparring,"
>implying
Boxing is a restrictive drill. Opponents are cooperative about not using elbows, not kicking, and not grappling. Boxing is a restrictive drill of not using back fists, hammer fists, and knife hand strikes.

You fail to understand the importance of intent.
>implying

>This is a common failing of people who think yakusoku kumite is all you need to become a competent fighter.
>more implications

I never said anything about not sparring.

Stop shitposting. Leave the house. It's too obvious you're shitposting.

I know you're shitposting. We don't need your bullshit here when wrestling is fucking our shit up. Go fuck yourself.

>>1467407
Is Kyokushin and it's derivatives considered sports or traditional? I'm confused.

>>1470082
its both at the same time, doesnt have to be one or the other just like judo just like muay thai. all those styles have sport and traditions embedded into them

http://www.dojori.com/#!about/c20r9
I've never even heard of this style but apparently it's really rare?

>>1468790
Ed Parker schools are the very definition of McDojo.

>>1469285

Bitch, this is my house.

A drill has predefined roles. Sparring does not. Again, the fact that you don't understand this tells me you have seriously distorted and deluded views of martial arts.

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>>1470620
Here's a screencap.

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http://www.shoheiryukarate.com/index.html
Another style unknown to me. Shohei-ryu? I didn't know karate had so many schools.

Feel like this didn't need a new thread, but since a lot of people are talking about specifically wanting full contact stuff:
Is there any martial art worth doing if you're NOT interested in competition? I wouldn't mind doing one but I also don't want to be punched

Why do people still train karate?

Haven't they realised it's all bullshit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VggDRaIFqzA

>>1468947
So it's just a gimped MMA?

>>1473249
>I also don't want to be punched
Consider taking up yoga or tai chi

>>1473507
>Consider taking up yoga or tai chi
Depending on the Tai Chi, you'll get pushed into the ground, and even struck multiple times.

>>1473249
>I also don't want to be punched
Ballet might be more of your thing. Maybe certain women's cardio kickboxing class.

>>1454062
>the rules of competition are not a reflexion of the full skill set of the art
No but what they teach at the gym is and 99% of Kyokushin gyms do not train punches to the face and 99% of TKD gyms do not train grappling. You are full of shit.

>>1473406
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhO4aqPSKn8

>>1473450
>So it's just a gimped MMA?

Of course not. There's no appreciable ground or takedown game. It's gloveless kickboxing with different clothing and a bunch of cultural exercises included.

It's probably close enough to muay thai that individual differences are more likely to decide the victor of a given match than style, but if you're not into the Japanese cultural stuff you should probably just take kickboxing. I like the weaboo stuff so it was good for me.

>>1472938

Looks like an old man's japanophilia became a career. Good for him. He ain't going to teach you to fight though.

>>1474284
>if you're not into the Japanese cultural stuff you should probably just take kickboxing.
It's possible Karate could be cheaper.

>>1473450

>but if you're not into the Japanese cultural stuff you should probably just take kickboxing.

Karate is a more well rounded Striking style compared to Kickboxing and Muay Thai.

If not as a base martial art, then it should be used as a supplemental art to round out that striking a little more.

>>1473987
Wrong.

>>1453176
Because you can't condition your face.

>>1474658
>Because you can't condition your face.
You can indeed condition your face. It's your brain that you can't condition.

>>1457300
Have you thought of judo or aikido?

>>1469248
>Plenty of traditional martial arts, including Okinawan and Japanese, contained zero free sparring.
>Citation needed

>>1467407
>Yeah all 5 of them. Please post some examples
It's more than that you pretentious retard.
>Please post some examples
Please learn to fucking google

>>1474956

I cite every faux-scholarly twat here who ever tried to invoke Ellis Amdur as an authority in the last three years.

I understand the concept of the Eternal September but you're hopping into a conversation /asp/ has been having for years, and the Internet has been having for decades and demanding we catch you up. You're a pinch hitter coming on at the bottom of the 9th and no, we're not going to replay the previous 8 innings for you.

>>1475358
>I understand the concept of the Eternal September but you're hopping into a conversation /asp/ has been having for years, and the Internet has been having for decades and demanding we catch you up. You're a pinch hitter coming on at the bottom of the 9th and no, we're not going to replay the previous 8 innings for you.
No, I'm asking you to back up your claim. And going that it's long an argument or I'm too "new" as it were is not a valid response. Seeing sparring has been critical to the development and practice of martial arts for ever since their inception and definitely far longer than this arguments been going on, it's hard to imagine there were "martial" arts that absolutely no free sparring whatsoever.Martial arts with no sparring can hardly be called martial arts and arts with no sparring in the past would definitely be seen as arts without sparring are now: mcdojo horseshit

>>1475524

www.martialartsplanet.com

Knock yourself out.

>>1475358
kek

>>1455367
ITF Tae Kwon Do is alright:

http://youtu.be/8Cjm7g72-Yc

>>1475524

Slightly more seriously, here's a long discussion of the subject with lots of links for you to click your damn self:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115976

It's pretty well known that many traditional JMA and CMA don't spar, and that many Japanese jujutsu schools don't roll. It's weird that you're pretending ignorance of this. I suspect you have a definition of sparring that differs greatly from most people's, which is why you don't understand why boxing isn't a drill, to name just one of your oddities.

>>1476497
>which is why you don't understand why boxing isn't a drill
I never said that it was

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>>1468947
>We imported shin kicks from MT a long time ago
Karate's had both low and high roundhouses. Claiming they were taken from MT's false
>You won't find much difference between a kyokushin or seidokaikan player's mawashi geri and a thai boxer's round kick in the 21st century.
Also untrue. Karate's kicks still rely on being chambered and then twisting the hip and are very much unlike MT. The kicks' stricking surfaces and targets, especially the low are also different. Karate's outside low low kicks aim for the top of the thigh not the shin. Inside low kick aim for the inside of the thigh. Also unlike MT, Karate high roundhouises can also strike with the ball of the foot/toes.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76MgBFVGjiE [Embed]
They're different, have differnt origins and Karate didn't take anything from Muay Thai. If you know Karate's history then you'd know what Karate took the most from was Kung Fu, especially Northern Shaolin and Fujian White Crane

>>1476588

You're talking about "karate" like it's a monolith. I did Seidokaikan for four years at the Hombu dojo. What style did you train in?

>>1476553

>>1469285
>Boxing is a restrictive drill.

If you're not >>1469285 you're doing a good impression of that dick.

>>1476588
Manga?

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>>1455347
>>1468839
Boxing's not the ultimate style but it sure as shit isn't one and is definitely a martial art.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing#History

>>1476603
>You're talking about "karate" like it's a monolith
I well know Karate's not a monolith, but the techniques of it's styles are very much similar and function in much the same ways and if your going to call a kick a Karate kick it'll follow those parameters. Different styles of a singular of a martial art having the same basic techniques is one of the things that allows all those styles to be classified under that martial art. If a so called Karate kick's done in an absolute completely different way than than it's not a "Karate kick". Never mind that Karate's kicks and MT's kicks have different origins entirely and Karate's movements take from CMA.
>What style did you train in?
Shotokan

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>>1476651
>>What style did you train in?
>Shotokan

A famously un-alive style with 26 kata to memorize and maybe you can get some point sparring in if you have time left over after that.

After I JUST told you that I have years of training IN THE STYLE I WAS TALKING ABOUT you gainsay me because the style of cultural dancing you do doesn't do it that way? Knockdown karate fighters win fights. Take Machida away and who does Shotokan even have as an example?

Oh, and how does Machida throw a roundhouse? Like pic related. What does that say about your krotty theorycrafting when your own messiah doesn't use it? Ball of the foot roundhouse is a dance step for kata, not a technique people use effectively.

>>1476609
Karate Shoukoushi Kohinata Minoru

>>1476679
>A famously un-alive style with 26 kata to memorize and maybe you can get some point sparring in if you have time left over after that.
>Don't talk about knockdown karate. You don't know anything about it.
>Implying Shotokan can't be knockdown
And I'll talk about about it all I damn well please. Go be be butthurt and suck more of Matt Thornton's dick
>you gainsay me because the style of cultural dancing you do doesn't do it that way?
No I gainsay you because saying the roundhouse was taken from MT is not only factually incorrect but disproven and shows your ignorance of not only Karate and it's development but also the style you allegedly say you've trained in.
>Oh, and how does Machida throw a roundhouse? Like pic related. What does that say about your krotty theorycrafting when your own messiah doesn't use it? Ball of the foot roundhouse is a dance step for kata, not a technique people use effectively.
Read my post post again because you obviously missed when I said
>can also strike with
obviously there are other striking surfaces such as the top of the foot commonly seen in Karate kicks. I was giving an example of a differnt style of roundhouse. I didn't mean they're all done that way dumbass. And if you really did know a damn thing about what you were talking about, you'd know what I posted was not theorycrafting.
How about you quit spouting off about shit you don't know shit about and pulling shit out of your ass before you post if your going to be a butthurt bitch when your called out about being wrong; and especially when you don't fucking read

>>1451496
Try daito juku / kudo

>>1476732
Closest place is 3 hours away from me.

>>1476730

Oh, okay, I only trained with actual K-1 fighters for years. I must not know what I'm talking about. I imagined all that shit and the photo I posted too.

It's well known that kyokushin and consequently its spinoffs adapted their mawashi geri from muay thai after several famous fights between KK players and Thai boxers.

Top of the foot is bullshit. Ball of the foot is bullshit. Fight full contact and you'll abandon that bullshit quickly.

I'm going to do my best not to talk to you again because now that I know you do Shotokan I know your YMCA-tier training has given you no perspective on anything but the scrub krotty you do.

OP, if you or anyone who shares your interests is still here, this guy I'm talking to is a good reason to stay away from any style of karate but Kyokushin or one of its offshoots like Enshin, Seidokaikan, or Oyama juku.

>>1476894
>I must not know what I'm talking about
You clearly don't
>I imagined all that shit and the photo I posted too.
Read my post again dipshit.
>t's well known that kyokushin and consequently its spinoffs adapted their mawashi geri from muay thai after several famous fights between KK players and Thai boxers.
The only thing that's well known is that your pulling more shit out of your ass. It's not only untrue. In the two videos I posted below the mawashi at the end of this first video and and those througout the second below that first one and this Muay Thai video, look nothing like Muay Thai kicks; because again, they're not remotely the fucking same,
>https://youtu.be/oXKjRUO8lv4?t=399
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh_52aL-7H0
>Top of the foot is bullshit.
The the common way the roundhouse kick is taught and done in Karate's bullshit? As are the kicks that kick that way in this video?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnOBmybq38
>Ball of the foot is bullshit.
>More I don't have an argument so I'll asspull more and call it bullshit.
>Fight full contact and you'll abandon that bullshit quickly.
I have.
>I'm going to do my best not to talk to you again because now that I know you do Shotokan I know your YMCA-tier training has given you no perspective on anything but the scrub krotty you do.
You mean your going to be a butthurt faggot because all you've done is asspull, as well as show even more ignorance about another style. You can't even say what "tier" I'm at, you've neither met me nor seen me train. Goddamn you must like pulling shit out of your ass huh?
>OP, if you or anyone who shares your interests is still here, this guy I'm talking to is a good reason to stay away from any style of karate but Kyokushin or one of its offshoots like Enshin, Seidokaikan, or Oyama juku.
Your not in any position to give anyone Karate advice of constantly talk your shit with the level of ignorance you've shown and all the asspulling youi've done.

>>1476894
>OP, if you or anyone who shares your interests is still here, this guy I'm talking to is a good reason to stay away from any style of karate but Kyokushin or one of its offshoots like Enshin, Seidokaikan, or Oyama juku.
What about Uechi-ryu? I think they do body conditioning like Kyokushin.

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>>1477070
>I think they do body conditioning like Kyokushin.
Yep

>>1476679
The 26 katas aren't exactly to memorize, it should be one every year, and the important ones are few
Even though it's still practice, the big/important shotokan schools do one on one most of the class.

>>1477074
Do Uechi schools do much sparring?

Speaking of vetting out dojos, how about some of the guys here take a look at mine? It's got many red flags, but also some things going for it. The main points I'm concerned about are:
-Fucking high monthly rate of $170. Compared to a boxing place I used to go to that cost $100.
-Almost all of the owners/people who run the gym are in the same family.
-Different colored gi's, ranging from white to red to black depending on rank of black belt.
-Some kids have black belts.
-The style isn't an old or tried and tested one, only created in the 20th century from what I can tell.
-No low kicks allowed in sparring.
-Nobody around seems to be at my level. There are plenty of young black belts and old black belts, but nobody that is in the middling stage of belts.

The pro's for it have dissuaded me from leaving:
-The grandmaster seems to really know his shit, at least from my perspective. The few times I've gone to the advanced classes and worked with him I've gone home with sore spots and more knowledge.
-Sparring is fairly frequent, with both a dedicated day each week of just sparring and also at any moment in an advanced class you could be told to grab your gear.
-How well you perform in sparring can effect whether you pass your test to a new belt or not.
-There are multiple people that I've met in class either as fellow students or as trainers that can obviously kick my ass, which seems to say that if I continue practicing I'd get to their level.

So altogether there are signs that could be taken as red flags, but everyone there seems to know what they're doing and can reasonably fight/defend themselves well. Here's the website for anyone willing to let me know their opinion.

http://www.karateinternational.net/

On top of all that, I've attempted to look up the teacher's name, and haven't found much other than a name-drop in a random online karate news article.

>>1477749
Kids with black belts, karate gis that aren't white or black, high monthly rate, no kicks allowed in sparring? what, no mid level belts meaning they promote easily and frequently, birthday parties, and summer camp. Those are some really red flags it's a McDojo.

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How do I train flexibility?

>>1477879
Same way you train anything else.

>>1477879
By stretching faggot. What else would you do?

>>1477749
What's up, fellow NC bro?

>>1477775
pretty much covers everything, but I'm pretty interested in some of this stuff you've mentioned

>>1477749
>The grandmaster seems to really know his shit, at least from my perspective. The few times I've gone to the advanced classes and worked with him I've gone home with sore spots and more knowledge.

You can get sore from bad training, and plenty of martial arts maintain encyclopedias worth of techniques that don't work.

>>1477749
>There are multiple people that I've met in class either as fellow students or as trainers that can obviously kick my ass
What makes you think this? They move with confidence and their sleeves make a loud popping sound? You say you used to go to a boxing place. Are you basing your ability to determine who can kick ass on your boxing training? How extensive was it?

>>1477749
>everyone there seems to know what they're doing and can reasonably fight/defend themselves well
Again, why do you think this? You've seen them fight? Under what rules? You've seen them defend themselves? On "the street," I'm assuming. No, you haven't.

>>1477653

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JakTO3qG27w

If this is what their sparring looks like, they're probably better off doing as little of it as possible.

>>1478573
There are bad schools you know. A shitty US school shouldn't speak for the entire style.

>>1478635
so show evidence of good schools please

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Goju guy here, who among you faggots /at nationals/ here?

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>>1478669

Goju twat competes at the national championships of a competition that looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRI1GG2uaYM

It wouldn't matter if you were at the galactic championships of this shit, homey.

How's it a national championship if anybody with $90 can sign up, anyway? Kind of sounds like the proper name of this tournament is "Philadelphia Open."

>>1478789
lol, I'm not even competing, I'm just walking around trying to pick up fit karate girls.
I do keep running into a problem every 30 minutes or so I pass by someone that recognizes me
>Sensei are you here competing?
>Sensei when are you fighting?
>Sensei what division are you in?
and I say no, I'm just here as a spectator
>Sensei please reconsider
>Sensei you can still register, there's still time!
>Sensei I really want to see you fight, please borrow my equipment and sign up!

legit I've had at least 10 people if I had to count in the past two days come up and ask me to fight

>How's it a national championship if anybody with $90 can sign up
I think it's because of the divisions, there are open divisions and national divisions

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>>1478807
>lol, I'm not even competing, I'm just walking around trying to pick up fit karate girls.

That's as pathetic as it is unlikely to happen.

>Sensei...

Uh-huh...

>>1478810
I'll have you know I came with 4 condoms in my bag and I now only have 3


because I made one into a water balloon and dropped it off the roof of the hotel

>>1478810
Oh no, I believe it. That part of the community is a huge circle jerk. I'll call you sensei if you call me sensei, that way we can all get off together.

>>1477749
>The grandmaster seems to really know his shit
Means jackshit, when you've been doing it for 40 years even almond fighting can look like a good system that makes you invincible and you can beat anyone at it
>Some kids have black belts.
Kids get prizes for just existing, a kid black belt is not going to be the same value as an adult one

>>1479039
>a kid black belt is not going to be the same value as an adult one
[citation needed]

>>1479061
Why? Of course when you're being a judge for a kid's black belt test you're going to be way more lenient, unless you're an autismal amoeba that can't stop itself from sperging out

>>1479068
>Why? Of course when you're being a judge for a kid's black belt test you're going to be way more lenient, unless you're an autismal amoeba that can't stop itself from sperging out
That's strange, I didn't think that I was on /b/.

>>1479086
You seem to think that karate black belts are given based on strength or ability in sparring

>>1479135

If they're not in some degree based on ability what do they mean and why should anyone want to be awarded one?

"Here's your black belt, shitdick. Try not to get your ass kicked on your way home."

>>1479139
>what do they mean
Knowledge of the curriculum
>why should anyone want to be awarded one?
Marketing

>>1478810
Why are you so spiteful?

>>1479139
>"Here's your black belt, shitdick. Try not to get your ass kicked on your way home."

You say that like its inaccurate of the mcdojo grading process.

>>1479135
>You seem to think that karate black belts are given based on strength or ability in sparring
What seems ,and what is, may not always be identical. Perhaps, bias blinds you before you even get close to seeing what is.

>>1479061
Kids learn things for rewards. Tend to not focus on the material and once they achieve the goal they move on. The greatest benefit of being a kid in the western world is they won't get harshly for not soaking the criteria. So they get that black belt on a free ride.

>>1473244
This place is literally right down the street from me.

>>1455228
The "killer instinct" to survive in the streets is being able to run away. Some people like to say parkour but I think just jumping over fences quickly is enough.

>>1479281
Or just get a gun.

>>1479620
A gun is more likely to get you killed or imprisoned on "the streets" than anything else, you dumb retard. Conflict escalation turns self defense into assault with a deadly weapon. If you can run and choose not to the next "killer instinct" you'll encounter is Big Bubba's instinct to kill your anus in the shower room.

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I can't start karate for about three and a half to four months (I'm moving then and the place I'm moving to has a kyokushin dojo).

This might be the dumbest question ever asked here, but is there anything I can do to prepare for it in the meantime? (I am already working my way through Stronglifts 5x5 and CouchTo5K for general fitness).

I have this book but I'm pretty sure it's either outdated, or if not that self-learning it will cause me to develop bad form, or both. There's also a kyokushin course that someone put on youtube called Born to be Strongest (linked below) which seems good.

I want to get good as soon as possible. What do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDdHzWalteE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x7M2ujT528
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pYKIsYTIE

but why not respect point karate? after all you respect fencing don't you? unless you're some kind of low class trash of course

really it's the same thing just with your hands and feet instead of a stick.

Checkmate

>>1479731

It’s bait, but I'll bite just because I can use the practice articulating this argument, and used to believe the very thing you said when I did point karate.

There are two problems with point karate. The first is on a technique level, and the second is on a strategic level. I’ll talk about the technique level in this first post.

In fencing, you're trying to touch the other guy with your sword. With a (hypothetically) sharp sword, just a touch is already full contact. An Olympic fencer with a real rapier can really kill you. The only difference is you put all the gear on him and give him a wimpy electronic sword.
Point karate on the other hand is generally focused on turning a strike into a touch. The theory behind it is that if you're good enough to touch someone you're good enough to really hit him with that same technique. It's not true though. A punch or kick you intend to pull isn't just different at the instant of contact; it's different from the moment you launch it in almost every instance. A roundhouse kick to the body that you intend to drive through is going to start with a different weight shift than one you intend to touch the other guy's jacket and then pull back.

It's faster, too, which leads to another problem. A lot of techniques end up getting invented or adapted purely for point sparring. This is a problem I understand karate shares with fencing. For instance the ridge hand is a staple of point sparring because it’s a quick long-range technique. It’s a rarity in full contact venues, to the point where I’ve never personally seen it used.

>>1479819

Talk to a point sparring guy and he'll tell you a roundhouse kick should be thrown from the front leg because it's faster. That's true if you're planning to pull it back because if you’re throwing a rear leg roundhouse you want to snap, you have to start checking and reversing your hip rotation really early in the technique, which slows it down. A front leg roundhouse coming from the knee is up, out, back, and down and it’s quick and snappy. Take those same two techniques into a full contact setting and now your front leg roundhouse is going to require some awkward preloading to get any power out of it while your rear leg roundhouse is free to continue accelerating through the target because you don’t plan to pull it.

So from a perspective of pure technique point sparring doesn’t teach you to employ techniques you could use in a “real” fight because by the time you adapt them to the point sparring environment, you’ve nerfed yourself so hard you’re practicing something entirely different. You’re welcome to argue that while most people may do that, you, personally, as well as your dojo, use real techniques and merely pull them. My response would be you’re probably overoptimistic in making that claim, and if you did do that you’d just be bringing donations to tournaments because the people who train like I described are going to beat you every time.

>>1479823

The second issue is with strategy, and from there you have to differentiate between two broad types of point sparring: point-stop and continuous. In point-stop sparring once someone has landed a clean point the match stops and the match is reset from the starting line. This is the type of point sparring I’m accustomed to and it really put me at a disadvantage when I switched to knockdown karate because I didn’t know how to keep going after I landed a clean hit. You can say that, well, when you’re “actually” fighting you’re just going to keep going, but do a dozen years of point sparring and see what that does to your momentum. I’ll wait.

Having performed the experiment myself I can tell you that I simply had no momentum. I landed a beautiful technique that I might have set up with three or four great feints, and then I hesitated and paid for it. Same with when I got hit with what looked like a clean point. I’d stop and get hit with the follow-ups. It was a long, painful process to unlearn this, at least for me. It’s important to remember that many full contact rulesets are point-stop, such as Japanese bogu kumite or Olympic taekwondo. They don’t suffer from the technique drawbacks I described above but they do have the strategic drawbacks.

>>1479831

Continuous point sparring is where the match continues after a hit while judges count hits. In full contact venues like boxing and MMA I see no problem with this. It’s a way to determine a winner without insisting every fight go to a knockout and gives athletes greater longevity so they have a chance to get good at the sport, raising the level of competition for everybody. I actually don’t know of a full contact competition format that isn’t also at some level a continuous point sparring format.

Unfortunately some karate organizations combine this strategic setup with insistence on light or non-contact. The problem with this is the athletes don’t learn to adapt their strategy to the fact that both they and their opponents are accumulating damage as a fight continues. Under rules like this you might trade all the kicks and punches to the arms and legs (no points) your opponent wants to throw for a few clean taps to the headgear (one or two points) without ever learning that getting punched and kicked in the arms and legs enough times will take you out of the fight. You also never learn and never learn to use your own toughness. There would never have been a Rumble in the Jungle under light contact karate rules, and I can’t live in a world like that.

>>1479819
>>1479823
>>1479831
>>1479833

Caveat:

The foregoing is from a karate guy who switched from point to knockdown after many years of point karate and probably has no applicability to grappling.

I have read a lot about fencing and kendo but I have zero experience with the former and very little with the latter. My understanding is that many people in the sword MA world have serious problems with how both sports are set up, so the original comment that started all the stuff I wrote may have already contained a false premise. Nonetheless it is a common sentiment and worth countering.

>>1479673
>a gun is more likely to get you killed

lol, ok buddy. That's why police, military, and even violent criminals all use hand to hand techniques instead of guns to fight.

>>1479731
>but why not respect point karate?
Because respectable point sparring is barehanded. Point has is uses and merits but shitty, nonserious, padded point deserves to not be taken seriously and doesn't teach or accomplish anything.

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While not karate and just mma, I didn't really feel like this deserved a whole thread of its own
Would anyone here be able to tell me which gym is better?
http://www.michigantt.com/
and
http://www.warriorway.com/
The first one, according to sherdog, has produced professional fighters, yet I've never really seen it recommended while I have seen warrior's way recommended quite a bit, yet I don't think they've ever produced any ufc fighters. Though without any fighters produced, they still have a lumpinee stadium champ and their BJJ instructors supposedly trained under the gracies

>>1479061
>[citation needed]
Not really

>>1480647
Don't really see warriors way prices listed so I'd note that, but they both look alright and seem fairly respectable. Just visit and decide for yourself. The best gym will be down to the one you choose anyway. And give this a read before you go.
>http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com/

>>1480849
I went to warriors way before and the muay thai guy seemed kinda strange, not in a bad way he was just sorta jokey. Played barbie girl for his advanced class and all that
The BJJ seemed to be practicing real moves on eachother and the mauy thai class I saw was mostly pads/conditioning rather than any sparring, so maybe I just went on the wrong day
My biggest issue is that they only do contracts and don't allow for month by month. Which I suppose MTT does too but they give the option to do single month, even if it is wasting some extra money.

>>1480647
unless each have traineddozens of fighters who've comecompeted or more, one gym having had trained competitors and the other one not having had competitors doesn't make a difference in the big picture.

>>1481178
It absolutely does. The gym that trains competitors, especially at that level, you know is capable of training competitors, at that level (duh). Schools that have had that kind of success are usually interested in repeating the process.

>>1481178
>>1481187
The first one seems to have quite a few fighters, however I'm worried about their winrates
None of them seem to be all that spectacular and just seem to sit at between just below 50% or just above
http://www.sherdog.com/stats/fightfinder?association=Michigan+Top+Team&weight=0&SearchTxt=&page=1
Here's their fighters

this board is officially dead. The only threads besides mandrama shit are spergs who watched an anime and want to "try a karate class"

>>1481195
>however I'm worried about their winrates
Eh. At worst, that means IF you get to that level, be a little skeptical of whoever is picking promotions for you.

Just GETTING 13 UFC appearances is remarkable. You have to be an absolutely physical prodigy with mastery in another sport to even have a reasonable hope of matching that record, never mind doing better.

>>1481314
Fair enough
Thanks for the help, senpai
I doubt I'll ever get to pro level, but hey why not try to go with a gym that'd give the best chance of it

>>1481279
What anime has karate?

>>1480889
Im primarily a judoka. I've taken a few formal and informal striking lessons and from what ive been told boxers/kickboxers dont spar nearly as much as I would as a grappler. Newcomers generally dont spar until they've been practicing for a few months. As a judoka, I was sparring with other white belts after a week.

>>1481354
Not karate but generic fighting, but ben-to is great

>>1469265
The irony is that kick boxing was created in Japan lol

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>>1481354

I'm partial to History's Greatest Disciple Kenichi.

>>1457360
How did you get to train in Japan? Exchange student?

Asking as I'm going to be an exchange student this academic year and considering training karate, but I have no prior experience, just a few years of judo as a kid. Was it easy to fit in?

>>1482034
forgot to mention for my question, I've passed N2 so I don't think language will be a huge barrier

>>1462606
So its shotokan with full contact? Its what you just described pretty much.

>>1482108
Or almost any karate.

>>1482034

I was an eikaiwa monkey for a while. Got the job just as the Lehman Shock was setting in, rode out the worst of the recession working a cool 29 hours a week. It's an easy life, and my Japanese is nowhere near your level.

>>1478669
really disappointed, the convention is over and none of you came to see me

>>1479620
Yeah or that.

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>>1464670
I guess you couldn't find anything anon?

>>1486820
Not him but honestly if the standards are so high you can't find anything viable just lower them a bit

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>>1487121
I think you're right. I'll just have to settle for point sparring I suppose.

gentle reminder
https://www.4chan.org/banner-contest/asp

>>1487854
what does it matter
there's only two fucking martial arts threads on the board anymore, its done

>>1486820

No, I suck and let it slip my mind.

Don't settle for point sparring though. See those four posts upthread? I'm serious about that shit. Point sparring makes you actively worse at fighting than not point sparring.

Now that I'm reminded let me see what I find. You're willing to go anywhere in RI? What town are you in?

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>>1488160
Anywhere in RI is fine. I'm in Pawtucket so anywhere that's not more than 45 minutes away is good.

>>1488160

http://www.neskarate.com/#!blank/khawh

God damnit. There's Shidokan, which should be a respectable knockdown style, but somehow this particular dojo has lightsaber classes.

It might be worth checking out though just in case the swords are for kids and the adults actually throw down.

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hey lads,

Ive been doing Genseiryu Karate at a really good underground school for 4 years when I was 14, I reached the blue belt. I quit when I was 18 years because I moved cities. I'm now 20 and interested to get back into it, probably kyokishin karate. In the 2 years I didnt train karate Ive been lifting and getting bigger. Any advice for a knucklehead to get back into it?

>>1488467
I've actually already called them and they said they're based on the Shidokan offshoot of Shorin-ryu and they do very little sparring. They said that sparring is more for "sports karate".

>>1455228
>bRoe, ur fiting styl is... not fro the streerts, haah... mi steet fighting is The onlY real styel, ,,

Jesus fuck, if I hear one more faggot go on about street fighting I'm gonna start shoving salt dildoes up people's asses. Clearly OP doesn't give a shit about fighting in the street. If you wanna "survive" in the damn streets, stay near the god damn security cameras and keep something to shoot, stab, spray, or shock kneegrowths with

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>>1465665
It was Rika Usami and Yuka Kobayashi for me

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>>1488219
>>1489025
There's this Uechi-ryu school from just casually looking
>http://www.uechiryu.com/
Saw a couple of other schools both karate and non, and a few mcdojos. Though I don't know how close to you any of that is. Maybe this site would help too
>http://dojos.info/Search/
All I got for now.

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>>1492938
Thanks, man. Any help is appreciated. And that place is like 7 minutes away from me. Might check it out.

>>1489025

What worthless cunts. Did they know the name Shidokan was already taken when they started making shit up?

>>1488219
Took me a while to realize it was left to right

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>>1492796
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wje3kghdl0

>cultural dancing

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>>1481720
>History's Greatest Disciple Kenichi

My bro! It's one of my favorite fighting mangas. I'm recently in Karate Shoukoushi Kohinata Minoru.

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Anyone else watched this?

It's shit.

>>1495725
I have this on my backlog. It sounds like the Hajime no Ippo of karate mangas.

>>1493891
I think there is a non-knockdown shidokan style though.

>>1481354
Most don't have it as a major theme. At most you tend to see side characters who dude karate or judo and use it as an excuse to be the character that overreacts and kicks or beats the shit out of people as a gag. There's more in manga though.

>>1481720
Too bad about that ending.

>>1495865
Did Oyama really fight bears?

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>>1488953
>>1488953
Keep looking around your area, maybe use the dojos site here >>1492938 and give the dojo faq a read >>1480849

>>1451496
if it's a dojo with multiple programs (boxing, bjj, muay thai etc.) then it's garbage

if they empathize on physical fitness and social shit in the advertising just fucking book it out of there

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>>1492938
>>1497923
>>1451496
RI OP here, I've been looking for a bit and found these three schools I'm considering

http://www.newenglandshotokan.com/index.htm This one is just Shotokan but it sounds very traditional compared to the other McDojo Shotokan schools around this area.

http://shoheiryukarate.com/
This is a Uechi-ryu school which I heard teaches body conditioning like Kyokushin so it might be hard sparring as well. And sanchin sounds interesting. Not a huge fan of the open palm stances but I might get used to it.

http://www.dojori.com/#!adults/ct4d
This last school teaches Okinawan Kempo I think and I know they do bogu kumite which is the closest thing to hard sparring. The owner seems pretty serious about actual training and seems like a decent guy.

I'm still unsure which is best so I'd like to hear yours and the thread's opinion on these three and any other schools you might find.

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>>1500155
>http://www.dojori.com/#!adults/ct4d
>competitors are divided by weight, sex, and rank. Matches are one against one, no one pulls a weapon, and the opponent can never sneak up from behind. For these reasons sport martial arts have lost many of the 'old ways'
What the fuck does does he think they did in the "old days", have sneak from behind with weapon tournaments?
Seems rather pretentious tbqh
>Hurr durr ye olde ways of rogue samurai-killer supermans
>Our environment is relaxed and we make classes fun so you can learn without pressure

>Our martial arts are an fascinating study of timing, body mechanics, and efficiency. As you learn, you will develop greater awareness of your muscles, posture, and balance while making mind, body and spirit conections that can help you feel better and improve your outlook.
>What do we mean in practice? You punch a pad

>>1500180
http://www.dojori.com/#!martial-arts-in-rhode-island-blog/c1ptn
He seems like he knows what he's talking about from reading his blog but I suppose you know more than I do.

>>1500463
Seems a bit too concentrated on theory, also he feels so much superior to MMA fighters on the basis that they have weight classes
Of course these are all assumptions

>>1455228
I don't want to surivive in the streets, I want to do a fun sport

Karate and its predecessors in Ryukyuan unarmed fighting was primarily designated for manlet fishermen and peasants for self-dense. Why the fuck would you waste your time doing that shit when boxing and Muay Thai is around?

Even Knockdown styles like Kyokushin, Seidokaikan, Ashihara, Enshin, Daido Juku, Shidokan, etc. have retarded watered-down rules in their competition despite having tough sluggers.

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>>1500953
>Karate and its predecessors in Ryukyuan unarmed fighting was primarily designated for manlet fishermen and peasants for self-dense.
Wrong. Karate was developed and propagated by the Okinawan warrior/scholar-official class, Pechin.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechin
>Why the fuck would you waste your time doing that shit when boxing and Muay Thai is around?
Why the fuck would you come in a Karate thread to bitch and be wrong about Karate
>Even Knockdown styles like Kyokushin, Seidokaikan, Ashihara, Enshin, Daido Juku, Shidokan, etc. have retarded watered-down rules in their competition despite having tough sluggers.
Every MA has rules like that varying from one art to the other and as rules for a fullcontact, and especially barehanded art, knockdown karate's rules do a good job. Go bitch, nutride and style-shit somewhere else

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>>1500155
The last school seems kind of mcdojo-y if they call what they teach Okinwan Kempo
>they do bogu kumite
If they do this, it might be worth it. Try to see/ask what their sparring's like if you visit

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>>1500463

If he invokes the old sport vs. street myth he's full of shit regardless of how much history and kanji he knows. Frankly occidental karate teachers who like to wax philosophical about kanji remind me way too hard of Protestant ministers who spend a whole sermon droning on about one of the five Greek words they know.

For a breath of fresh air after reading that blog I recommend you try this one: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/

>>1500155
>This is a Uechi-ryu school which I heard teaches body conditioning like Kyokushin so it might be hard sparring as well. And sanchin sounds interesting.

You can do body conditioning with zero aliveness. You will indeed get tough, at least against blows you know are coming that your opponent is carefully aiming and calibrating to be exactly as much as you can take, but you won't learn how to fight.

Sanchin, by the way, is terrible. You throw five slow motion punches while trying to look at constipated as possible.

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>>1501788
I read their site a little more and it's technically Okinawan Kenpo Karate. The same style Seikichi Odo taught. The owner actually trained under him since I see a few photos of them together and he has actually visited this school a few times. I'll have to call and ask to watch a class to see how good it is. What did you think of the other two schools I posted? Also have some more Makoto for helping me.

>>1500953
>Karate and its predecessors in Ryukyuan unarmed fighting was primarily designated for manlet fishermen and peasants for self-dense. Why the fuck would you waste your time doing that shit when boxing and Muay Thai is around?
>Boxing and Muay Thai
>Not designed by Manlets
Hilarious.

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>>1501819
>I read their site a little more and it's technically Okinawan Kenpo Karate. The same style Seikichi Odo taught.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikichi_Odo
Gotcha. Mcdojo rescinded for that then. Tbh I had forgotten about that until I looked it up. The other two seem alright. Not a lot about pricing so I'd again note that. Keep sparring in mind for the other two as well.
>Also have some more Makoto for helping me.
No problem and appreciated

>>1497556
Hum... Yes, but they are very young bears, and they are very starving

>>1501815
stepping away from karate for a moment, that website was pretty bad and looking at their sword video i am sure I would not want to train there.

that said I know a number of excellent martial artist who maintain there is a difference between competition and real world violence, not that there is no cross over mind you, but that you have to take special steps to prepare for predatory violence

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>>1497556
>>1502005
I thought Oyama's thing was 'fighting' bulls. I know Willie Williams fought a bear
>http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/vault/karate/kyokushin-fights-bear/
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCZGbUkabd4

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>>1451496
Daido juku.
Full contact karate with face shots.
Basically Kyokushin but better.

I [personally like goju and wado. Buth most of them aren't full contact.

>>1502485
Tried and I couldn't find a single school in my area.

>>1451496
Two words.
DUTCH. KICKBOXING.

I posted a thread about the same thing a while ago but it died. There's thre kyokushin dojos near me, and I've tried two of them out. One is a very small class size but I really liked the vibe. The other is bigger but Idk. It seemed off to me. Hopefully the third will be just right.

From what I've seen it's a definite improvement over taekwondo but there is also carry over so that's cool.

>>1502557
As an instructor, having fewer students makes it a lot easier to correct and teach things

>>1502027
>that said I know a number of excellent martial artist who maintain there is a difference between competition and real world violence, not that there is no cross over mind you, but that you have to take special steps to prepare for predatory violence

It's not that. The biggest meathead in the world isn't going to claim to that competition and real world violence are the same thing. What I'm claiming is that it's the closest you'll get without risking injury, death, and a criminal record before you've gotten in enough practice to be good.

Saying "sparring isn't the same as a fight" is true, but it carries a lot more weight coming from someone who at least spars than it does coming from someone who doesn't even spar.

People who claim they don't spar because "there are no rules on the street" follow far more rules doing the stuff they do than anyone does while sparring.

>>1502485
So it's basically kickboxing, with stupid fucking headgear?

>>1502557
What's wrong with a small class size? As long as you have quality opponents in there, it should be better.

>>1503099
Kickboxing+judo with stupid headgear.

>>1503197
Sambo with stupid headgear?

>>1503233
Bretty much. You get to keep the weeb stuff though, if that's your thing. It's a choice between no helmets and vodoka, or dumb helmets and sake. Not sure which one is rarer though to be honest.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtQqHBp8-mU

>>1503233
I refuse to believe sambo is real.

Would it be a dumb idea to join a full contact school if I have no insurance?

>>1506499
kek

gi are a dumb uniform

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>>1512518
Your face is a dumb uniform.

I'm starting to think there are laws preventing Kyokushin schools from existing in Rhode Island. I cannot find a single fucking school that teaches that style but as soon as you leave 40 miles away from the center of this state they start popping up. There's 10 of them in Boston alone. This state sucks dick.

>>1513102
Maybe it's just that other schools/important teachers were there first, happens a lot here

>>1504183
man, that shit was stupid as fuck
it doesn't even remotely resemble a real fight

>>1513839
>it doesn't even remotely resemble a real fight
What is a real fight?

Sometimes, fights are ways for men to violently solve their differences, without causing permanent brain damage, in a relatively civilized and non-destructive way. In some ways, Kyokushin Karate fights are the most real of them all.

>>1514843

Yeah, this. "Real fights" are often ritualized and have rules based on the culture in which they're taking place. Those rules are enforced too. Go to any schoolyard in America and count how many kids you see bite somebody in a fight. Look for nut kicks on World Star and see what happens to the guy who throws them.

People have these ideas that anything that isn't murder isn't a fight, but there are types of violence. You (whoever is reading this) aren't remotely insane enough for sociopathic levels of violence anyway, so you'd be better off training for 95% of what happens.

>>1503392
> It's a choice between no helmets and vodoka, or dumb helmets and sake
That's an easy one.

>>1513367
Considering there's 10 Nick Cerio Kenpo shit schools in this area I think you'd be right.

>>1514843
they are standing there making little to no effort to avoid actually getting struck
I mean why would they? body shots are largely ineffectual at worst, and a lucky fluke at best when they work
that isn't how people fight

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>>1478814
Kek

>>1521874
>that isn't how people fight

It in fact IS how Japanese people fight, because hitting someone in the face is a serious taboo.

You're also underestimating their toughness and the effectiveness of body shots. YOU would go down to one of those shots.

>>1524836
You can still kick someone in the face during full contact sparring, but hand strikes are forbidden just to make it a little safer.

>>1524933
>just to make it a little safer.
It also makes it extremely less likely to develop brain damage compared to things like Western Boxing.

>>1525337
Also, less cuts on your face, which japanese people would probably appreciate in their day to day lives.

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>>1521874
>body shots are largely ineffectual at worst
Body shots work great at taking people down. Body shots are extremely effective when it comes to tiring your opponent out. But when you go through Kyokushin Conditioning or something similar, it takes a little more to get the same results on you.

Reminder: average people have bitch bodies and bitch pain tolerance, and would get TKOd the fuck out with a good body shot, maybe a broken rib or two.

>>1525349
Is there taboo against that or something?

>>1525821

You joke, but sincerely, punching people in the face just is not done. Kind of how you don't kick a guy in the nuts in America because it's "dirty" or you don't scratch or bite because then you're fighting like a girl. There are cultural rules to fighting.

Koreans have similar ideas about hands to the head, which is a big reason their martial arts are so kick-centric. It's not the whole reason, but there's some etiquette to it.

>>1526123
>Koreans have similar ideas about hands to the head.
No. I was told by my old TKD instructor that TKD became more kick focused (Olympic tkd) because of how many Olympic tkd practitioners were getting rekt'd by other martial arts using mostly hand techniques.

>>1526123
I'm seriously not joking, ive never heard of that taboo, I was wondering if having a cut on the face makes you look like a yakuza or something

>>1526373
There's a bunch of weird superstitions in every martial art.

I've heard karate guys say you should never let the belt touch the ground. Some say you should show respect to the belt and keep it clean, while others say you should never wash it or some shit (so your white belt becomes black over the years, gross as that may be).

I've heard the reason why initially the only subs in judo were chokes and certain arm techinques were because if you were choked out or had your elbow dislocated, you could still go to work the next day, whereas if your leg or your entire arm was fucked up you wouldn't be able to.

>>1527480

The belt shit is American.

A. All karate has throws and trips so you couldn't possibly avoid touching the ground with your belt.

B. Japanese are famously clean as a culture and wouldn't put a filthy bloodstained belt on a clean white uniform. Anyway belts were invented by Kano in the 20th century, so they're not an ancient thing. Wash your damn belt.

>>1526123
>Kind of how you don't kick a guy in the nuts in America because it's "dirty"
which is why here in america I win fights, because I nut shot dudes every chance I get
b-bro...cheap!! as he falls over and vomits his guts out

>>1495950
When they're explaining a move or a fighting style, then it like Hajime no Ippo. But the artstyle and fighting scenes is better then Ippo.

>>1500463
This dude sounds like a Grade A cunt who has never defended himself from anyone. Fuck, please put someone like this in a room with a good high school wrestler and they wouldn't know what to do

>>1505013
What does that even mean

>>1528378
>things that never happened

>>1526363
>I was told by my old TKD instructor
...and I was told by my old TKD instructor that thing I said. Now what?

>>1453174
Generalizations. Not every karate school teaches that stupid shit. Watch K1 much?

>>1531972

Created from Seidokaikan, a Kyokushin offshoot whose method of training is sufficiently similar to Kyokushin that an outsider can't tell which is which?

That doesn't prove your point.

>>1533583
Outsiders can't tell any styles apart.

>>1526363
>stuff people make up
Taekwondo comes from the old Taekyon styles where culturally, it was done as part of festivals or celebrations. Guys would get wasted on soju and fight, punch is a point, kick is 2 points, kick to the topknot is three.
Sure people would get carried away in baskets but it was about showing your skills and being fun to watch.
Sport tkd is a modern version that's gone down the toilet by becoming an olympic sport.
t. 30 yrs TKD referee at olympic selection level

>>1528035
>The belt shit is American
Yep, comes from the Germanic attitude to flags. Bikers have similar attitudes.
Westerners will wreck their belts to look all beaten up and wear them looking like rags -ooh i've trained so hard- asians will just buy a new one.

>>1526123
>Koreans have similar ideas about hands to the head
Oh bullshit. TKD lacks hands to the head because it makes the game boring to watch. It rewards kicks to the head with more points.
All martial ARTS as opposed to SPORTS teach the groin kick and knee kick as basics, eye and throat strikes with fingers as well. There's no taboo against them anywhere.

>>1528378
I mean, on the one hand it is a good way to protect yourself from muggers or murderers, but if you're just fighting some guy you don't get along with, what does that say about you?
>I need to hit someone in an incredibly weak spot that everyone has because if someone makes me fight for real, I lack the strength to fight back

>>1535506
>I lack the strength to fight back
Strength doesn't mean jack shit. It's all about timing and precision.

>>1534482
>throat strikes with fingers

Do you want to know how we know that you don't know anything worth saying?

>>1535506
If you are fighting a formidable foe who has many advantages you should use what ever you can to take him down

>>1501815
>that image
lol

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>>1535506
>Throat strikes with fingers

>>1536538
>>1536359
You can do throat strikes with fingers look at the final battle of drunken master 1978

>>1536544
>final battle of drunken master 1978
You're using a movie to add credibility to your claim

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>>1536572
Im not him the original guy who said that but whats wrong with king fu movies? They often use real kung fu

>>1536625
Better image

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>>1536631
Oops

>>1536625
It's a common belief here that kung fu is ineffective

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>>1536650
On a board that is dominated with WWF that is completely believable

>>1536660
Aside that it was believed before wwe was moved here, those aren't exactly the people who get into these discussions

>>1536683
I know it was really kind of a joke

Well they can think kung fu isn't good and they can say mma fighters are better but thats really their opinion. There are tons of good kung fu fighters

>>1536683
There were plenty of thread with different martial arts back then

>>1536702
Generally the opinion seemed to swing that way

>>1536702
Actual kung fu movies themselves caused this complete dramatic destruction of hard styles, the "I will kill you without hesitation" is now as meaningless meme in the modern fighting world as a liberal shouting "fascist!"
I blame UFC, It might be live but its still a staged fight. Its about as safe as contact fighting can be. But people think its a "real fight." People actually grade these fighters based upon this "real fight" and have created this fallacy that these people are actually good at fighting. Thus believing MMA is a good martial art. Gracie royally fucked up the ENTIRE system for profit

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>>1536739
Not him but before martial art fights use to be more deadly. i heard wong shun leung blinded a guy and that made him give up bei mo fighting

> "When I competed, it was in secret. We went into a room, and the door was shut and there were no rules. The government did not allow them. They were illegal, but we didn't care. We fought until the other guy was knocked out."

>Different kung fu schools met secretly with each other for challenge matches. Wong was said to have faced opponents from many disciplines—"virtually every style of martial art in the colony."[1

>When asked, "Did you compete in any organised tournaments with rules?" Wong replied, "Not in boxing. When I competed, it was in secret. We went into a room, and the door was shut and there were no rules. The government did not allow them. They were illegal, but we didn't care. We fought until the other guy was knocked out."[6] When asked, "Did you ever consider competing in combat sports?" Wong replied, "I have always liked boxing, I like anything about fighting, but my kind of fighting is not the sport version, it is real fighting where there are no rules

>>1536702
Of course, but even then generally people's opinions were that CMA weren't useless or anything (other than the ones that are), but weren't efficient most of the time. Not only that, but even if old school 2deadly stories were true, they would have been to long ago to be properly recorded. Can you really blame people for seeing CMA's current stigmas?

>>1536865
>only fights in the past 30 years are real

>>1536932
No, its
>any fight may be real, but the only way to be sure is obvious evidence
>only in the last few years methods of recording that evidence have become as widespread as they are

>>1536968
>video is the only form of evidence

All the wars fought before our time werent recorded. Are you going to say those war or stories of war are fake? You so know there are things such as pride and honor in the martial art world right? Those who were frauds would often get challenged and get their school shut down. You are implying the martial art world couldnt self regulate before technology was invented

>>1536982
>Those who were frauds would often get challenged and get their school shut down.
Could easily be just stunts for the school who made the challenge, you wouldn't have many occasions for advertising otherwise

>>1537957
Not only do you have renegade martial artists but you have dojos warring against one another. One would beat another, and then they get revenge ect these type of things happened a lot and they still happen today just look at gracie vs kings dojo to say they were all staged is ridiculous

>>1538017
Nice fairy tales

>>1538046
K tips fedora you dont know how the real world works

>>1536695
>There are tons of good kung fu fighters

Great. And there's some evidence of that somewhere, I'm sure.

>>1536982
>Those who were frauds would often get challenged and get their school shut down.

Yeah, and they had...some kind of fight probably. But we have eighthhand hearsay stories about it, not evidence. What was the level of those fights? By which I mean, if any two guys fight one of them is going to win. But were these world class fights or just two morons flailing? Link related. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S19VsB7__v0