Boxing General

>>1305989
Storylines

>>1305989
Serious question by someone who doesn't watch boxing. Is this guy on the boxing they show on showtime or is that different?

>>1305989

Big boxing fan here. The problems it faces:

1. It's a sport that to get the most from requires knowledge of the art, either by practice of the sport or knowledge through much viewing. This makes it inaccessible to the casual viewer of 2016. Especially so when half the sporting audience are functioning retards.
2. Too many naggers. Straight up - whites (the group who watches it predominantly and the target group fuelling the advertising/sponsorship to the sport) want fighters they can identify with. Hence Brits worshipping the average Hatton, the Klitschkos revitalizing the heavyweight class, Mayweather being popular because whites just wanting to see that uppity nagger be beat.
3. Not enough heavyweight calibre athletes entering the sport.

>>1305989
>Boxing is far more entertaining than Wrestling and MMA.
That's like, you're opinion, man.

>>1306069
OP here
I think your asking if showtime is the only provider. HBO is another. Theres more that vary by country and some make it to american television. Mexico and Britain mostlu

Anyone know any effective conditioning techniques? I wanna strengthen my hands and wrists.

Also has anyone tried this method?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8j3Qegduy8

>>1306235
Ok thanks. I wasn't sure if showtime only showed one kind of boxing "promotion" while other channels showed different ones.

Obviously not familiar with the sport at all but want to get into it

>>1306061
Right before every big fight.
https://youtu.be/hF76dlQt23c
Literal storylines. And this is basically a highlight real.
Heres a full blown documentary.
https://youtu.be/TKcTF9XtcOk
If you actually watched boxing you would notice the extreme effort by showtime and HBO to make their characters interesting. Yeah, some of it is exagerated but it's technically all true and far more interesting than the plot and fueds Professional Wrestling pulls out of its ass.

>>1306126
OP
>2016
>not mentioning GGG
That aside the whitest boxer currently is Mexican. Still you make excelent points and most hardcores would agree with you. Being white myself i too found it hard to get into at first. It took a bit of research before I realised the art of it all. I was drawn to that gladiator feel. All in all boxing is dying like baseball people dont like to keep track of numbers despite living in an age where there are websites that track shit like punch counts for you.

>>1306223
Stick around. I'm not going to sum up everything because that would take forever but im willing to bet i can convince you with my other posts that it's at least on par.

>>1306244
OP
Buy wraps, theyre cheap. Do knuckle pushups and punch things. Read about how to perform a 1-2 there's tons of information out there. Do NOT punch until you bleed. It will not make you cooler.

>>1306247
It actually does show a specific "stable" of fighters. Big promoters rarely work together due to stupid ass rivalries. It doesn't work like football where anyone plays anyone.

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When do you think GGG and Canelo will fight?

>>1306296
That's what I was thinking. Does one channel have the better promotion or stable? Like is HBO's boxing better than Showtime? Where is the best place to watch?

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>>1306346
Both. If your poor and can't afford buying PPV all the time then just watch it the day after. usually appears on the internet for free.

>>1306289
I own wraps and they do wonders, however my coach sometimes makes us do combos barefisted against flat pads. Sometimes my wrist aches but I think it's mostly down to technique and conditioning mostly the latter I think.

>>1305989
I tried to give boxing a chance and saw Pacquiao vs Mayweather and that was shit.

Pacquiao was the one with the most offensive in that while Mayweather was just defending like a bitch and hugging Pacquiao everytime he was about to get rekt.

Then the winner is the guy that didnt do shit? That was really lame. I dont care if there are rules that made Mayweather win because those rules are shit if they get you such an abominable result.

No wonder that the sport is dying when the match of the century was barely watchable.

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Boxers should exercise their forearms because it makes their guard bigger.

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>>1306359
it shouldn't take long to build up moderate wrist strength. about as long to get caluses. If you are having wrist problems communicate with your coach. if you are punching without wraps then never go 100%. Punching is 20% power, 30% speed, 50% technique.

>>1306376
>everyone hates Mayweather for different reasons
>Number one reason is because he's a defensive specialist i.e. he's a counterpuncher who doesn't take risks.
>watches a mayweather fight
>bored to tears
>hates boxing
Really...
Watch this instead Anon. This is real boxing(and it's recent).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmcYq37KX-k

>>1306399
I didnt cared about boxing so i decided to take a chance with the supposed match of the century.

Aniways thanks for the link will give it another go.

>>1306377
I agree. neck muscles, reverse barbell curls, OH dumbell press, a strong back, and tons of punches make you harder to kill.

>>1306404
Styles make fights. But it also determines how interesting it is. These guys have an ego. they basically fight to the death.

>>1306377

Armchair boxer and very much nonsense.

Boxing is a skill sport and you should always remember this. Strength training and conditioing (i.e. non sparring/bag work) are way behind and secondary.

Of course, boxing - and it's trainers - haven't forgotten this. As OP mentioned MMA, I get a real kick out of seeing those guys training and wrecking/de-energizing their bodies for skill practice with stupid HIIT conditioing exercises though. Motherfuckers should be rolling, hitting/kicking a bag and sparring for 80% of their training. It's the real thing keeping it from evolving.

>>1306682
Literally what the fuck is this post?

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>>1307619
>Literally

>>1305989
I'll box your ears fuccboi

>>1306406
What routine would you suggest for a neck harness? I recently ordered one a couple of days ago but I haven't started using it yet. Would starting off with 5kg be a good weight?

I was thinking of training my neck 2 times a week with 3 sets of 12, as well as neck bridges.

>>1307895

Don't use a harness.

Work up to a wrestler bridge with a pullover/press hold of 100lbs. That'll do more for your neck than any harness.

>>1305989
>boxing is more entertaining than mma
nigga what planet are you living on

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Can't wait for based Phil Brooks to showcase his boxing skills in the UFC. Anyone else excited?

>>1306126
>Too many naggers.
>implying it's 1993

more like too many slavs and mexicans in 2016. blacks are losing.

>>1308361
>nigga what planet are you living on
Its probably ground game and submission searching.
You have to understand ground-game to make it less boring looking.

You don't really get any ground game in Boxing.

>>1306126
>1. It's a sport that to get the most from requires knowledge of the art, either by practice of the sport or knowledge through much viewing. This makes it inaccessible to the casual viewer of 2016. Especially so when half the sporting audience are functioning retards.
Doubt that's got anything to do with it, MMA is doing just fine and to the uneducated watching grappling may as well be watching paint dry.

>>1305989
>Boxing is far more entertaining than Wrestling and MMA.
What're you doing on 4chan grandad?

>>1308363
I only vaguely know he's a pro wrestler but I can't wait to see him fight.

>>1306336
Maybe when GGG gets old. Everyone is too scared to fight him.

What i want to know is why he has only had one title for six years. He should have unified the titles at this ppint.

>>1306346
Hbo has much better commentators. They explain general strategy and point out things that arent obvious.

Showtime sounds like they're broadcasting over the radio because they constantly tell you what punches are thrown, who's fighting, and on what network (hint: showtime).

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I need a pair of shoes for boxing/training but I don't want to get boxing shoes because I'll be using them for jogging and general use as well. I heard a good pair of running shoes would be fine. Any brands/models in particular to look out for/avoid?

Anyone watch the David Haye fight yesterday? It was pretty underwhelming to be honest.

>>1306682
>>1307619
Its truth. Modern training camps are all about conditioning rather than skill.

>>1305989
i have just started boxing, i done jeet kune do for 4 years prior. i dont know why anyone would really like boxing unless they actually do it themselves or are at least knowledgeable about boxing techniques. the average unfit person sitting in the pub doesent how much skill goes into boxing, especially in regards to the strategy.

>>1308876
>You don't really get any ground game in Boxing.
It's called points

>>1310711
>It's called points
Point Boxing is still more entertaining than ground hugging.

To any fighters in the thread. I've been working on my shadow boxing and was wondering if the switch stance is too dumb to use or is the ultimate weapon, I can already think of a pro and con but would like further insight.

Pros:
>confuse the opponent
>may deliver a harder strike

Cons:
>leaves me defenceless
>could take me off balance

>>1309348
I've been using McKinley all sport water resistant shoes

>>1313383
Pros:
>unlimited ability to cut angles to outsmart opponent
>unlimited punching and footwork combinations to outsmart opponent
>all those combinations, damn

You just have more weapons your opponent isn't used to.
You just have more weapons your opponent isn't expecting.
You just have more weapons your opponent can't understand in time.
You just have more weapons, you're just a more well rounded fighter.

>the switch stance is too dumb
Martial artists from many backgrounds, Boxing, Karate, Savate, Dutch Kickboxing, Sanda/Sansou, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, and even MMA fighters, will tell you that switching stances is beneficial.
Not all of them, think the same thing, all kinds of martial artists agree that switching stances is good to have in your arsenal.

This guy, for example.
He's been training more than 26 years.
He's got experience as a stuntman (he also once doubled Sylvester Stallone), professional MMA fighter, he's a 2-time Kudo World championship competitor, and he's got a black belt in Taekwondo.
He also teaches martial arts.
He's all this, and he believes in the power of switching stances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0coXvWiT1PQ

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>>1313383
Anderson Silva.
One of the best UFC fighters in our time, maybe of all time.
He switches stances, and he's primarily a striker.

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>>1313383

>>1314486
>if you're right handed you should dedicate more time to your left hand
>if you're left handed, you should dedicate your time to your right hand
You should do that regardless of if you're Southpaw or Orthodox.
You only have 2 hands to punch with in Boxing, it'd be stupid to neglect one or the other.
Giving one or the other a little extra attention after both have been well taken care of is fine, though.

>>1314297
>>1314400
>>1314486
Thanks

Too bad the Jew that is bob arum is hell bent on keeping his money and not producing quality fights :/

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Every day, every time after I take a piss and wash my hands, I shadowbox for a few seconds.
You should, too.

So pissed Wilder/Povetkin got cancelled. Honestly think Wilder would have won that fight and that would have been his breakout as an elite heavyweight. Also had an easy story for the casuals/non fans to follow and watch.

>>1314694
Being a pure southpaw has its benefits, though.
If strategy and tactics isn't your strong point, and you're just going to go in there, swing, defend your head when you can, and rely on muscle memory, sticking with one stance is a viable option.

Time spent training in another stance is time spent you could've spent training in one stance.

If you take two average people who have been training casually for 2 years, you'd probably notice that the stance-switcher has some stuff that isn't as developed and gets hit a few times because of that, but the stance-switcher manages to catch his opponent off guard a few times. The stance-switcher might lose the fight.

Fast forward 3 years later, or 10 years later, and the story is a little different.
Since they both know the basics like the back of their hands, the stance-switcher has the advantage of training stuff the single-stance-user didn't.
However, since the single-stance-user happened to have a stance-switcher to train with, it doesn't catch him off guard as much.
Most boxers aren't so lucky, though, so they're more likely to succumb to the stance-switcher's unorthodox and unfamiliar techniques.
A similar thing is applied to Southpaws.

>>1314694
>>1316424
Orthodox also has its benefits.
For most people who are right handed, standing Orthodox is just more comfortable.
With the right hand being more dominant, it's usually more accurate, fast, and strong.
Having the dominant hand as the power hand, the rear hand, is very beneficial.

However, the jab is sometimes underrated.
There's nothing like a good jab.
If you stand with your dominant hand in front, your jab is going to be a dominant jab. Your front arm hooks and uppercuts are going to be great. All of your punches with that hand are going to be great, and that throws people off.
Your lead hand is your range hand, standing with the dominant hand in front could actually be good for an out-fighter.

>>1313383

Switch is a great skill to have - IF you master it.

Keep it to shadow/bag work and NEVER think about using it in sparring/a fight unless your trainer gives you the OK.

If you're training at home without instruction - which it sounds like - don't consider using switch on the street if the need arises. You may get your ass beat when you should have thrown off a cheap shot anyway.

>>1316981
>NEVER think about using it in sparring/a fight unless your trainer gives you the OK.
i dont see why you cant practice switching stances in light sparring. it seems like the best way to do it

>>1316440
The most damage is coming from your rear hand, and your dominant hand is just going to have the better speed, timing, and precision.

A dominant rear hand is going to be more dangerous than a dominant lead hand, unless you use the jab A LOT. But since you get 2 weapons in Boxing, or 2 hands, people use their power hand a lot.

I guess it really depends on how much more dominant your dominant had is compared to your other hand.

>>1318181
Shadowboxing and bag work helps develop technique with a strong focus, and developing application skill is secondary.
Sparring helps develop application with a strong focus, and technique is secondary.

>>1316981
>If you're training at home without instruction - which it sounds like - don't consider using switch on the street if the need arises.
That's like saying you shouldn't throw the cross because it's too much more complicated than the jab.

Just like with fighting in Orthodox, you develop skill by practicing.
Your jab is only as good as how much you practice it.
Your switching is only as good as how much you practice it.

>>1316981
>Switch is a great skill to have - IF you master it.
It's just like any other technique, or set of techniques.
Your 1-2-3 combo is only as good as how much you practice it.

Your 1-2-switch3-2 combo is only as good as how much you practice it.

That's like saying combinations are only good to have - IF you master them.
You can still get do damage and pressure your opponent with a combo even if it was a little sloppy.

>>1314486
>if you're smart
Smart in this context is any combination of knowledge and intelligence.
Knowledge and intelligence can, and often do, compensate for each other.

This is why martial arts is so good at bringing people together.
What you can't figure out on your own, there is the knowledge waiting for you.
You don't have to be intelligent to develop skill.

>>1318181
>i dont see why you cant practice switching stances in light sparring. it seems like the best way to do it

'Light' is the operative word. A novice trying out a stance switch without ability mid sparring is liable catch a few punches in the head. A boxer should do his all not to catch headshots. 'Punch drunk' boxers later in life are very real.

This is why I recommended only to bag work until a trainer (who knows more than you) gives it the greenlight.

>>1318261
>Shadowboxing and bag work helps develop technique with a strong focus, and developing application skill is secondary.
>Sparring helps develop application with a strong focus, and technique is secondary.

Listen to this man. He knows his shit

>>1306336
Never if Golovkin is smart.

>>1305989
>Boxing is far more entertaining than Wrestling and MMA

No it isn't. I can't take boxing as seriously as I could in the past, knowing that highschool wrestlers could assrape some pro boxers.

>>1318916
Are you saying half of the fight being ground hugging and foreplay is more entertaining than all of the fight being punches, footwork, and standing defense?

MMA is more entertaining than Boxing until the fighters are on the ground.
The throw or takedown is more entertaining, but then the ground game is pretty boring.
The ground game gets a little exciting if someone does a nice counter, or gets in some nice ground and pound, but it's still kind of boring even if you know what's going on.

If you like analyzing striking strategy and tactics, Boxing can be more entertaining to watch compared to MMA.
Since you can only use 2 fists, you see pretty nice use of footwork, angles, and defense/offense combinations.

Strategy and tactics changes a lot when kicks in general, including leg kicks, and spinning/turning techniques are added, but like I said, it depends on the fighters.
Some fighters just take Boxing, take Wrestling, learn some clinch work, and then do MMA, or at least it looks that way then they're underutilizing their arsenal.

MMA is MMA.
Would a fight be a Muay Thai fight if someone just used his Western Boxing skills the whole time?

Sometimes, a MMA fight might as well have been a Kickboxing fight with only punches and kicking allowed.

>>1318976
Totally agree

>>1318924
>i'm too stupid to understand grappling and i'm a closeted homosexual

ok.

>>1320647
>he doesn't agree with my opinion so he must be stupid

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It's a lot easier to hit someone in the solar plexus when they aren't wearing a shirt.

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Here's what some people from 2008 have to say about solar plexus shots.

>>1318383
well my point is if youre already sparring then theres no real reason to wait. obviously you should be doing padwork/bagwork but i dont think that sparring light is a problem for anyone who isnt a total novice

>>1306126
>whites (the group who watches it predominantly and the target group fuelling the advertising/sponsorship to the sport)
Fucking What? I bet you're a newage TMT baby who doesn't know how much time and effort HBO went into marketing Ward just to see him flush it down the toilet. Or how many chances Rigondeaux has been given just for him to intentionally put on a shit show.

> Hence Brits worshipping the average Hatton,
Oh, like they do Joshua and Eubank jr. now?

>the Klitschkos revitalizing the heavyweight class
You mean killing the HW class? HW JUST NOW started getting popular again when Joshua, Wilder, and Fury came onto the scene.


This is all pointless anyway because it's Mexicans who are the largest fanbase. There's a reason Mayweather only fought on the largest Mexican holdays and targeted Mexican fighters.

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Why shouldn't Boxing allow hammer fists, backhands, and turning/spinning techniques?

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>>1321788
>>1321845

>>1322009
>what is (knuckle) boxing

>>1318976

k1 is the most entertaining desu. but there will always be a place for mma as long as men want to know who the best all round fighter is.

>>1322681
But with Kickboxing, you know what's going to happen: they're going to punch and kick each other.

MMA keeps you on your toes more because of the added grappling element.
You don't know if they're going to clinch, you don't know if it's going to be finished in the clinch, or if the clinch is going to the ground or going back into a Kickboxing match.

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>>1305989
MMA beats out boxing simply because it's a far more open ruleset that allows for far greater variety of "fighting styles" and has the allure of being the most "real".

I know very well that Boxing isn't just punching, its an art with multiple ways to go about it and they all have merit and it's something that's fantastic to watch and immerse yourself in, but boxing can be readily contained within MMA and you still have a ton of room left to continue adding elements to the strategy which lends it more depth. And yes, the general level of boxing across MMA is comparatively bad, but that's because they have to worry about kicks, elbows, knees and then the entirety of the grappling spectrum to boot. A lot of the shit that works on boxing doesn't work in kickboxing or MMA.

Of course MMA is not a real, no holds barred fight, there's more rules than the casual fan would likely know about, but actually being the most permissive and all-encompassing combat sport out there makes it the most "real" by default and that carries weight. It looks bad when a fantastic pure boxer can be shut down by an extremely bare-bones kicking game, let alone turning into a fish out of water when faced with any sort of grappling.

Even if you want to stick to primarily a punching game, the complete inability to work out of the clinch in modern boxing that Mayweather exploits to great effect looks extra bad when you have people putting in strong clinchfighting displays in Muay Thai or MMA. Boxing's fun and exciting and I never want it to go away, but it's just too limited a spectrum in this day and age. Have Iron Mike using a shoulder crank that can be found in judo/jujutsu and which UFC champ/ex champ Jon Jones used to tear a dude's shoulder out of its socket.

>>1324688
>Iron Mike using a shoulder crank
>mike Tyson shoulder crank.webm
Is this legal in Boxing?

>>1324694
hahaha no. Look at the ref trying to break them up and yelling at him to stop.

>>1324688
>but that's because they have to worry about kicks, elbows, knees and then the entirety of the grappling spectrum to boot.
They also have to deal with strikes below the belt.
They also have to deal with spinning/turning techniques, back fists, hammer fists, ridge hand strikes, all kinds of forearm strikes, shoulder strikes, and I just want to mention kicks even though it was already mentioned, and that's just UFC.
Vale Tudo rules differ, but there's also generally head-butts.

>>1324688
>>1324822
There's also flying techniques and cage-fighting.

Why is a Boxing ring called a ring when it's a square?

It should be called The Punch Square.

>>1326124
It's called the squared circle. The term is based in the roots of boxings rich history. Before boxing took place in actual rings it was a circle of spectators.

Anyone have an example of a Boxer just drilling another boxer, throwing a flurry of punches, and then the Boxer getting hit throws a counter or something?

>>1328737

first thing that came to mind was Tommy Morrison v Bentt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu9nzeTOA-M

>>1328905
Not exactly what I was looking for but pretty close and still interesting. It still has the concepts. Michael Bentt was up against the ropes being mostly defensive and the countered a right with his own right.

Young beginner here. Im sparring for my first time tomorrow, any advice?

>>1329403
>any advice?
Stay focused, and fight smart.

>>1318924
You're right. Standing hugging is way more exciting than groundhugging.

>>1329403
You're not out there to win. You're out there to learn

Bend your knees

Jab

Use your fundamentals

>>1329403
>>1329684
>You're not out there to win. You're out there to learn
This.

You should record the sparring so you can see exactly what you could be doing better, what you've been doing well, what you could be doing differently, and just because watching yourself fight is pretty cool.

You can also post it on here because it's always interesting to see, and to also get some outside tips.

You might get something along the lines of
>you suck
>you should give up now
>you're embarrassing yourself
>total shit
>you should kill yourself
>kek
or some other variation, but that's just what 4chan is.

K-1 is better.
It's boxing + kicks + knee +some other techniques allowed that are not allowed in boxing.

K-1 is boring when fighters limit themselves to boxing only. It's still boring when they only add low kicks. All the other techniques that are allowed make the difference.

And you don't see a fighter fighting the same guy for 1-15 rounds. Instead, you see him for 1-4 rounds, and if he won another 1-4 rounds, and possibly again another 1-4 (elimination tournament).

There's no behind closed door racketing with championship fights either. Instead, the fighters win qualifying tournaments to get into the championship tournament at the end of the season.

>>1329713
>K-1 is better
K-1 hasn't been relevant since around 2010, GLORY carries the torch with that ruleset now. By this point it's also very watered down since no clinchwork is allowed, and I enjoy GLORY but we've run into the same issue boxing has where running for a clinch is a perfectly valid opportunity for a breather rather than a chance to punish a panicking opponent.

>There's no behind closed door racketing with championship fights either
I guess you don't know about all that yakuza involvement, the same group that was involved with Pride which was another nail in the promotion's coffin to boot.

>it's a Mayweather snoozefest episode

>>1329749
I enjoy watching Mayweather display just how far ahead he is from others from a technical perspective, but his fights are definitely lacking in excitement. You could threaten to burn down all of his posessions and he probably would still only do the minimum needed to win on a round by round basis.

>>1329713
>some other techniques allowed that are not allowed in boxing.
Back fists, spinning/turning backfists, and sweeps.

>>1329749

fortunately that series is over now

>>1329713
>>1329854
>K-1
>no knife hand strikes
>no hammer fists
>no ridge hand strikes
>no forearm strikes
weak.

>no elbows
more weak

Do some Boxers, when bobbing and weaving, intentionally try to make their opponent's punch hit their forehead to try and break their hand?

>>1331122
That's what the gloves are for dumbass.

>>1306126

>Klitschkos revitalizing the heavyweight class

HA

Boxing needs to unfuck their retard weight class ladder if they want to ever be taken seriously again. I've taken dumps bigger than the weight differential between Flyweight and Super Bantamweight. That's THREE FUCKING WEIGHT CLASSES within 10 goddamn lbs of each other. Fucking embarrassing.

And also kind of sad that 200 is the highest weight ceiling. Anyone 6' tall with any muscle is going to weigh more than that. Which is probably why the Heavyweight division isn't any good anymore, the regular sized guys who could fight at 215 or something can't beat the freak 6'7'' guy fighting at 260 lbs.

They need to have at LEAST 15 lbs between every weight class, and not start weight classes before 140 lbs. Otherwise no one except deluded "hardcore" fans will ever be able to treat it as anything more than a circlejerk of Weight Class Babby pussies like Mayweather.

>>1306296

>Big promoters rarely work together due to stupid ass rivalries. It doesn't work like football where anyone plays anyone.

This sort of stupid shit is another problem boxing faces.

It all adds up to an EVERYONE GETS A CHAMPIONSHIP shitshow.

>>1306376

>Mayweather was just defending like a bitch and hugging Pacquiao everytime he was about to get rekt.

They also need to find a way to cut back on the goddamn hugging. Start taking points off if you initiated a goddamn hug more than twice a round or some shit.

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>>1306406

>dumbbell press
>mfw

Barbell is better.

>>1306682

Right? Remember how bad that Mike Tyson scrub was because he was so much stronger and faster than anyone he fought?

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>>1331126
The forehead is the hardest part of the human body dumbass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWdqfU8a028

>>1331151
Or, and this is crazy but bear with me here, make boxers fight out of the clinch and teach them how to punch and clutch, only breaking them up when it stalls. Actively encourage boxers to expand the ways they can fight is crazy, I know, but I have faith it'll work for the better.

>>1331170
Literally retarded, go outside.

>>1331151
They actually are supposed to penalize for clinching because it's considered a delay tactic. The problem is, like you suggested, there's no clear cut rule on it because pro boxing as a whole is crooked as shit.

>>1331283
Some do. Cuban boxers actually train on hand placement in the clinch to set up for big right hands if there's any separation. Technically it's not a clinch unless there's no activity between the boxers. One can hold until the cows come home but as long as the other boxer can still swing with intent it's not a clinch. The problem is boxers who do clinch do so specifically to rest so they know how to hold their opponents arms and prevent punches. There's actually already a lot of meta gaming for the clinch. People typically just don't see it because they think it's just "hugging like a bitch."

>>1331298
>gloves make the fists completely invincible

Only strikes? Geez man that sounds kinda boring

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I remember watching this video about integrating Boxing into street fighting.
I thought how he lowered his level and punched the leg was pretty neat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALwDCzx4Zf8

I remember how wrestling teaches to lower your level to initiate a double leg takedown.
That's 2 things you can do with a low level!

I remember talking to someone about low level stuff a few years ago, so I decided to invent this stance. I truly believe my stance is very innovative, and just genius. It's unorthodox, so opponents on the streets are going to have a hard time dealing with it. It's like I'm ahead of my time, I'm like Leonardo Da Vinci except I'm a martial arts genius instead of painting.

I call this stance: Crouching Boxer, Hidden Maga

The body positioning leaves the front of your body very well protected, this leaves you free to defend other things with your arms.
Since your arms are free, you can dedicate those arms to defending your head.
From such a low position, your center of gravity will almost always be lower than all of your opponents.
From range, you can throw groin punches with the precision of a 25 year old surgeon who's been practicing for 20 years. Since your arms are so low yet so high, you can deliver groin punches with speed you can't get anywhere else.
Not only is it great for precision Boxing, but it's perfect for double leg takedowns, it's just perfect.

I should patent this as my intellectual property, this is just genius.
The stance is perfect for street fighting.

>>1331388
No, but they are specifically there to protect the hands along with the wraps. Additionally, punching the forehead is actually not that dangerous because of the flex the neck offers. When beginners first spar at the gym I go to they're specifically taught to punch at the forehead for multiple reasons. One of which is safety for both boxers. Besides, actively sending your head into a fist is pretty foolish, because as soon as a boxer makes contact, whether it's early or not, they're going to follow up and you've just stunned yourself on purpose.

>>1331137
The best reason I can give for that is twofold. One, boxing is crooked as shit and they want to make as many boxers seem high profile as possible to elevate ticket sales. Two is that individual pounds mean more at the lower weights because of general proportion. 15 pounds of post-cut recovery weight is a whole lot more on a guy that's 115 to start than if he's 180.

>>1331664
>Besides, actively sending your head into a fist is pretty foolish
It's what people used to do in the bare knuckle days. If you're big and you have good technique your hands can only take so much punishment even with wraps and gloves on when someone headbutts your punches.

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>>1318438
lmao, canelo couldn't beat mayweather.

>>1331299

>People typically just don't see it because they think it's just "hugging like a bitch."

It indisputably IS hugging like a bitch. Just because there's an art and skill to it doesn't change that fact.

>>1331664

>One, boxing is crooked as shit and they want to make as many boxers seem high profile as possible to elevate ticket sales

I don't disagree that this is probably why things are the way they are, but they've gone SO FAR it seems that it's had the opposite effect. It's pretty goddamn impossible for anyone to really be a star when every jackass that can put his gloves on the correct hands gets a championship belt.

>Two is that individual pounds mean more at the lower weights because of general proportion. 15 pounds of post-cut recovery weight is a whole lot more on a guy that's 115 to start than if he's 180.

True. But this bullshit also encourages the dumbass politicking of fights hiding behind different weight classes, like Mayweather did his entire career and against Pacquiao. If you spread them out a bit more, a fighter will be encouraged to pick ONE WEIGHT CLASS and stick to it for a while. Instead of fighting in four different weight classes based on how long they spent in the sauna.

>>1329403

How did it go?

Did you record it?

>>1331914
Yeah, in the bare knuckle days when there wasn't protection on the hands. It makes sense. Now there's too much padding and protection. It's the same reason football players tackle more recklessly now. All of the lightweight but very protective gear allowed them to throw their bodies around with less regard to their personal well-being because the equipment protects them better than it used to. However, they've gotten so big strong and fast (that and medical science has caught up and pro football is starting to recognize the head injuries) that some teams have begun emphasizing safer rugby style tackling that involves wrapping up the legs.

It being used in the past under different conditions still doesn't change the fact that with the current conditions it goes against good strategy.

>>It indisputably IS hugging like a bitch. Just because there's an art and skill to it doesn't change that fact.

Why? Boxers use it to stop an opponent's rhythm and regain composure. I don't remember if it was against Mosely or not, but Mayweather got ROCKED with low/high combo and was smart enough to clinch and break up the other guy's momentum. Otherwise it very easily could have gone to a KO victory. I understand that clinching every other punch is a bit much and should be better regulated, but clinching as a whole is a pretty important part to boxing strategy. All I can think of is the strikers bitching out Gracie Jiu Jutsu back in the early days of UFC when they thought it was cowardly to hug and grapple and not keep upright and fight like a man.

>>1331979
>>I don't disagree that this is probably why things are the way they are, but they've gone SO FAR it seems that it's had the opposite effect. It's pretty goddamn impossible for anyone to really be a star when every jackass that can put his gloves on the correct hands gets a championship belt.

I agree. It's a bunch of shady promoters who only care about their own fighters and their own purse. That's disgusting to me.

>>1332212
Yeah I wanna know too. I'm going to get someone to record my first fight and post it here since I've been talking about it so much.

>>1331664
Are you a fucking idiot when you throw a jab you don't aim for the fucking forehead they even train fighters if they are to get jabbed to get jabbed on the forehead because its the thickest part of your skull you fucking retard you probably get hit everywhere because your whole skull is probably thick you fucking inbred fuck its boxing 101 you dumbass why would anyone listen to this dibshit with 6 months of boxing training is beyond me what the fuck you fucking retards i am triggered i cannot understand this shit if you know you dont have the knowledge why are you trying to go off opinions teaching people shit

>>1332629
Calm down and reread what I said. I didn't feel like elaborating much beyond "safety for both boxers because I'm posting from a cell phone" but nothing you said contradicts anything I said. You're right that the preference is to get hit in the forehead for a multitude of reasons, I never argued against that. I stated that putting yourself in a position to get hit at ALL is generally bad boxing strategy, so actively seeking out someone's hand in an attempt to break their fist/wrist with your forehead is pretty foolish.

>>1332488
Even with gloves and wraps on boxers mess up their fists all the time, fists are kind of the shittiest weapon humans have. It's not as valid a strat as when there was nothing to protect them, but not everyone can operate on maximum "hit without getting hit" levels so doing a bullguard and crumpling the opponent's punch by meeting it with one of the hardiest parts of the body before they get full extension and power generation is still applicable on specific situations.

As for the clinching in boxing, strikers bitched at grapplers but they didn't particularly understand that the grappler was actually working towards something, and then they got caught in something painful and had to tap. In boxing the clinch is exclusively a rest hold that doesn't particularly work towards any offense, more often than not the break winds up favoring the clincher who gets to take distance and reposition.

Clinching is part of the strategy, hell it's part of fighting in general, but in boxing where it's nothing but a convenient pause and timesink, where very few people seem to know how to even begin to clinchfight in order to break free or sink punches from it, it's pretty unarguably hugging like 90% of the time. I can appreciate the technical skills in clinching, but if it's allowed to be a total pause in the action rather than another position to fight from I'm not gonna like it.

>>1333088
>{It's not as valid a strat as when there was nothing to protect them, but not everyone can operate on maximum "hit without getting hit" levels so doing a bullguard and crumpling the opponent's punch by meeting it with one of the hardiest parts of the body before they get full extension and power generation is still applicable on specific situations.

That's not what I'm arguing against, I agree with you whole heartedly. Anticipating the punch and absorbing it to set up your own offense is part of the game. Purposely trying to break a boxer's hand by specifically targeting it with your forehead is another matter entirely.

Regarding clinching: I again reiterate that I agree that there needs to be a more clearly defined rule regarding it, but being mad that it is used to prevent the other guy from hitting you and you can't punch from it is like being mad at a guy for using footwork to get away from an opponent to regain his composure after getting rocked. Now, like with clinching as it is today, if that's ALL he did and didn't bother to throw back, then that's a different story.

>>1305989
Lame but better than mma. Kickboxing is the GOAT. No sweaty men rolling on each other pulling on joints, just dudes striking like heterosexuals

>>1306682
Wish I could train but I stopped because it's getting too hard to hide my balding. I could have been great but I'm a narcissistic goof

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>mfw people don't like grappling because they don't understand what is going on

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>>1318924
>Waaa stupid plebs don't know the technique and small details that make a boxing match great
>Durrr I've never bothered to learn about the ground game in MMA but I'm totally sure its just a bunch of gay rolling around on the floor with no strategy

>>1333481
>>1334167
>implying it's not a bunch of boring little shit and when it's not the boring shit it's just a bunch of nothing going on

>>1333481
>>1334167

>people who like ground game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lutNECOZFw

>>1332629
kek

>>1333088
fists are kind of the shittiest weapon humans have
They're still pretty great for anything but punching someone in the face.

>>1334267
I got to admit as a white belt in BJJ
It was pretty fucking boring watching grappling.
But when I was close to blue belt I started seeing the little things so grappling got really cool to see even if it was slow.

>>1306258
You mean it's got a higher production quality. Because its "storylines" are just those highlight reels. There's nothing in ring, and the only interaction between the participants outside of the fights themselves are in boring, hourlong press conferences.

And those storylines are all just two people fighting because "I want to be champion", and never anything else. Even wrestling can come up with more motivations than that. Mainly because, as fiction, they can actual try for quality writing to be entertaining and engaging, rather than throwing two random people together and making up a half-hearted narrative after the fact.

>>1332629
Thanks for letting us all know you're a moron.

>>1306061
Boxing championship belts look like garbage

You know, people say that you'll learn bad habits for MMA if you start with Boxing, but higher level Boxing can give you some relatively unorthodox stuff to work with.
As long as you learn MMA and modify your Boxing to fit MMA, you can use the more Boxing specific stuff to be more unorthodox in a more freestyle MMA setting like we have today.

It'd still probably be better if you start with MMA and use Boxing as a supplement, though since you don't have to modify as much and break muscle memory.
Relying too heavily on the Boxing specific stuff could just leave you beaten.

>>1329684
>>1331299
>>1331664
>>1332488
>>1332716
>>1333439
>>1332492
>I'm going to get someone to record my first fight and post it here since I've been talking about it so much
Looking forward to it.
What do you think about your improvement in Boxing so far?

>>1336181
From when I started it's night and day. One of the guys at the gym is a two time Golden Gloves winner and almost qualified for nationals. He's told me multiple times he's impressed with how much I've changed since I first came to the gym last year. I've sparred him a few time and, while I'm nowhere near his level, he says he has to be careful with me because I'm active and have a solid jab and left hook. I'm getting to a point where even though I'm obviously outclassed against open-class fighters (9+ amateur fights) I don't feel completely overwhelmed and dominated.

Needless to say I expect my first fight to look like a retard swinging windmill arms at the other guy and hope to win purely by being more active because I still think I'm shit.

>>1336208
>solid left hook

If you can get a sweet left hook going, you should polish that shit nigga. There's no such thing as a wonderpunch, but an effective left hook you can land consistently as a counter can let you smack dudes who outclass you otherwise. Learning to hook off your jab is difficult, but also a top tier thing to do. Just stuff to keep in mind.

>>1336208
>solid jab and left hook
Nice.
What do you think about short jabs and long jabs? I know I like long jabs but I'm not as comfortable with short jabs as I want to be.
I remember you saying you were being trained as a Boxer-Puncher, but preferred capitalizing more on some out-boxer type stuff. What is your game liken now? What strategies and tactics are you planning on focusing on?

>>1336225
Yeah my coach has been working that with me for that reason. I'm not great at it but I've used it to some success against guys charging straight in.

>>1336279
>>What do you think about short jabs and long jabs? I know I like long jabs but I'm not as comfortable with short jabs as I want to be.

I've been trained to use them both but I'm less comfortable with short jabs. My coach has been training me to develop REAL short burst jabs and left hooks (he jokingly calls them one inch punches) for infighting and pivoting.

>>I remember you saying you were being trained as a Boxer-Puncher, but preferred capitalizing more on some out-boxer type stuff. What is your game liken now? What strategies and tactics are you planning on focusing on?

I actually prefer the infighting stuff. When I first got there I was around 200 pounds with slow ass feet so I figured I'd have to slog in with good head movement and attack the body. I hated getting hit and having to chase guys around the ring so I focused on developing lighter feet and better footwork and that's when coach said he wanted to train me as more of a boxer-puncher.

My biggest problem is I feel that if I'm not throwing/not getting in range to throw I'm wasting time that should be spent hitting him, so I tend to charge in with jabs, slip under whatever they throw at me, and dig into the body. I'm still learning how to apply angles and work head movement more effectively and even at 160 I'm stubby so it's a difficult battle.

I'm an OK outboxer. My footwork is good and I can use the long jab to set up the right, but I'm so stubby that I rarely get a chance to. The last time I did was against aforementioned Golden Gloves during a "boxer-stalker" drill and I kept him away for most of the round but his step in and body shots are ridiculous and eventually he put me down.

>>1336335
>I actually prefer the infighting stuff.
>my biggest problem is I feel that if I'm not throwing/not getting in range to throw I'm wasting time that should be spent hitting him
Do you think that's because you could be in better shape? I know when I wasn't in shape, I'd get tired out before my opponent so I'd have to dish out damage in a small amount of time because I'd just be too tired to deal enough damage to my opponents if I took a slower pace that lasted longer.
Now that I'm in better shape, a strategy I use when I'm against opponents who don't have as good cardio is to out-fight so I can tire them out with straights and make them expend energy trying to get past my defense, and then start putting on more pressure once they're more tired and less able to defend as well as attack because they have less energy.

You don't have to listen to me, but this is what I Think you should do. Since you like in fighting, you should capitalize on closing distance with jabs, but also crosses so you're not as predictable. After that, start in-fighting with stuff to the body. But Not stay in for too long, and apply more of a slugger type style so you can make distance while putting pressure on your opponent. Then go back to in fighting or out-fighting, and really capitalizing on countering your opponent if he wants to get out of range. This way you can focus on what you want, which is what I assume is in-fighting, all while taking control of range and the pace of the fight.
Of course if you think you can handle it, work on making that structure I gave you more intricate so you're less predictable, and more able to adjust to what your opponent wants to do.

>>1336469
You've actually outlined my eventual enf goal in terms of overall strategy.

I'm actually pretty well-conditioned at this point. I can run two miles without much effort and interval sprints as well as if not better than some of the open class guys. My problem is I haven't sparred much nor do I do a lot of mittwork so my composure in ring is lacking and I gas quickly.

My biggest problem right now is we have three levels of guys at the gym. Golden Gloves/open class fighters, myself and a friend (who is a heavyweight and closer to the GG crowd), and absolute newbies. So I don't really fight guys who have worse conditioning than me, only guys significantly better than me. However, the few times I have sparred below or close to my level of experience I've done pretty well. We had a guy come in at 165 from another gym that needed sparring partners at his level (novice class, two fights) and when I sparred against him I absolutely dominated him despite him being 6'3 and me barely scraping 5'9. Problem is I still recognized that I did a lot of things wrong that I'm afraid will get me wrecked in an amateur bout.

>>1336532
>You've actually outlined my eventual enf goal in terms of overall strategy.
lol nice.

>I haven't sparred much
>three levels of guys at the gym
I'd work on trying to have guys emulate more infighting while sparring with you since that stuff can get pretty fast paced and intense. I found I had to mix in a offense and defense differently depending on how different opponents react to in-fighting. It was kind of difficult to deal out damage during in-fighting if my opponent wanted to stay in and was putting out a lot of offense.

>>1336532
>>1336568
Personally, I'd be more defensive to tire out my opponent in the beginning anyway, since with an even amount of fitness, the more aggressive fighter tends to be the one that gasses out more.
This fight, for example, even though they may not have had the same level of fitness. It's also a psychological thing. Being a lot more defensive than your opponent may lead your opponent to become more aggressive while also being less defensive, which leave him open more to things like counters and power shots even if he isn't being reckless. Given that it's your first fight, the guy your fighting is likely not to have good ring temperament, and could very well respond overly aggressively to high defense, which leaves him open.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEC_nTeo-uQ
Bob Ross wouldn't have done so bad in the later throughout the fight if he didn't throw everything he had in the beginning.

I'd also do as much research on my opponent as I can, and work on exploiting the things he does often, as well as generally working on finding holes in his strategy.
However, since both of you are probably going to be having your first fight or first few fights, there might not be any footage to work with, and fighting styles can change drastically during the beginning.

Also, I prefer a more Out-Fighting focused game, because it can be coupled with more of a counter-fighting style relatively easily, which could overall lead to dishing out the most damage while receiving the least damage.

Taking your time and being defensive in the beginning makes your opponent more tired than you.
Your opponent could be both physically and psychologically weakened, which generally leaves you more able to dish out damage, and generally leaves your opponent less able to deal with damage.
Slower to punch, easier to counter.
Slower footwork, easier to control distance.
Slower to bring back punches, slower combinations, more openings.

>>1336532
>>1336568
>>1336910

Damage also accumulates, leaving a win by TKO more likely.
The ribs can only take so much damage before they break, the pectorals can only take so many punches before they tear (if not completely, contuse), people can only take so much pain.
People can only maintain focus while being physically active and alert for so long.

For example, leg kicks.
The more I kick my opponent in the legs, the slower my opponent's movement is going to be, the more difficult it's going to be to do anything that involves the legs: power punches, takedowns, kicks, etcetera.
It's possible to win via leg kick TKO.
Kicking the opponent in the leg gets the opponent thinking low, which leaves the opponent to accumulating damage to the body, and leaves the head exposed.
After enough damage to the body, the opponent is thinking mid and low now, and I can mix up accumulating damage to the legs as well as the body, all while I can hunt for body shot TKOs, and keep accumulating damage for leg kick TKOs. The opponent now has the body, legs, and the head to worry about. I have the options of hunting for a KO, body TKO, leg TKO, or keep doing what I'm doing and hope I end up getting one of the 3.
I could also just end up winning by points.
Also, all the striking has the opponent thinking about striking, which could leave openings for clinching, throws, and takedowns.

I've been trying to work on my clinch game in general, but I'm liking how much damage I can deal to the legs with knees to the legs from clinch.
I've also been able to deliver some non-clinch knees to the legs of my opponents during sparring when they want to stand and trade punches, which helps me create distance or do some follow up.

>>1336532
>>1336568
>>1336910
>>1336920

Overall, I've neglected in-fighting a little too much throughout my martial arts training, and I've also neglected grappling a little too much.
Generally, it feels nice to have a more well-rounded game, even though they roundedness is just going to go into complimenting my focus of the time.

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Boxers get 36 minutes to fight.

MMA fighters get 15 minutes, or 25 when it's a championship fight.

What kind of bullshit is this?

Further more, Kyokushin fighters get 2min to fight, sometimes 3min.
That's bullshit.

>>1333454
>it's getting too hard to hide my balding.
You can transplant hair from other parts of your body to your head.

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>>1305989
>Boxing is far more entertaining than Wrestling and MMA.
>>1329713
>K-1 is better.
>>1333446
>Kickboxing is the GOAT.
Can we all agree Kyokushin is the worst Kickboxing?

1) Kyokushin matches are multiple 2 minute rounds

2) Some of the greatest kickboxers to ever live where kyokushin fighters: Andy Hug (maybe one of the greatest kickboxers to ever live) Francisco, Filho, Sammy Shilt (Ashihara karateka, an kyokushin offshoot) Glaube Feitosa, Sam Greco, Nicolas Pettas, Jerome Le Banner.
Chakuriki Gym, which defined the dutch style of kickboxing and has produced some of the greatest muay thai, dutch style kickboxers of all time, (Peter Aerts, Badri Hari, etc.) has a kyokushin base. Many left this gym and formed other gyms in the Netherlands which produced champions.
Bas Ruttn also has a kyokushin base and is open in his belief about the arts efficacy.
I'm a fighter and have been for over ten years. I'm tired of fuckheads who have likely never competed before shitting on arts they dont understand. So know what your saying, be a fighter, or fuck off.

>>1337352
Can't we agree that all combat sports are fuckawesome and have their own strengths and shortcomings?

>>1337205
MMA is much, much more exhausting than boxing. Grappling is tremendously energy-intensive and even just having a kicking game means people will be expending more energy which is why kickboxers have less rounds. For Kyokushin, IDK, I guess it's because they typically do single elimination tournament formats.

>>1337645
It's hard to argue with Kyokushin's competition rules being pretty assbackwards though. They make for dextrous and creative power kickers and hella tough guys but it teaches you precious little about actually protecting yourself and especially against head punches, the single most common attack ever. Also absolutely no grabbing the opponent in any way whatsoever.

>>1337886

>MMA is much, much more exhausting than boxing.

Yes, circling around each other doing fuck all for 5 minutes is really exhausting.

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>>1337919
>non-grappling plebian doesn't realize the effort in wrestling
>somehow deludes himself into thinking there's no inactive boxing matches

There's people this ignorant about martial arts and combat sports in 2016 still

>>1329713
International Muay Thai is going to pass K1 in a couple of years, it's just that right now they don't have enough money to pay fighters what they deserve.

Lion Fight has consistently great cards, and they even allow more grappling leeway than Muay Thai in Thailand.

Standing grappling, elbows, knees, kicks, and punches is all of the things people want to see condensed into one sport.

>>1338200
>Standing grappling, elbows, knees, kicks, and punches is all of the things people want to see condensed into one sport.
But people also want to see brutal looking ground and pound, epic submission counters and position counters, and standing submissions.
Muay Thai doesn't have standing submissions.

>>1338200
>>1338547
What we need is a Mixture of Muay Thai, Sanda/Sanshou, Judo, and Wrestling.

>>1309339
> What i want to know is why he has only had one title for six years. He should have unified the titles at this ppint.


iirc GGG was part of Universium promotions, which were unable to get him title fights. Universium also went bankrupt. But also several fighters and titlists have ducked him but GGG now has most of the titles out there, Canelo still has the RING belt (for some odd reason) and Billy Joe Saunders has the remaining belt.

>>1309345
> Hbo has much better commentators.

I don't know how many times Jim Lampley has called punches wrong. "He floored him with a left hook!" Jim will say and then you hear Roy Jones chuckle and say "That was a right straight" or something similar. Paulie and Roy are the best commentators because they were boxers

>>1321888
> HBO went into marketing Ward just to see him flush it down the toilet. Or how many chances Rigondeaux has been given just for him to intentionally put on a shit show.

Yeah Ward fucked up. I can't blame him for the injuries and surgeries he had because those things happen to all fighters, but the continued beef with his promoter keeping him out of fights, his diva like behavior, and keeping himself out of fights is what makes him stupid. I am a big fan of Rigo but I just don't understand his business sense. Rigo is not going to win new fans with his style but he keeps signing with Caribe Promotions which is an utter shitshow of a promotions outfit. No website to look at and all their twitter is full of is piggybacking off of Rigo and partying. Caribe does nothing to promote Rigo.

>>1329749
>it's a Mayweather snoozefest episode

It's a snoozefest when the other fighter respects Mayweather too much. Guerrero gave Mayweather too much respect and that was just a Floyd fighting at cruise control the entire time. Maidana had no respect for Floyd and that fight was a head turner.

>>1337205
>>1337886

Boxer over 12 rounds know they got 12 rounds / 36 minutes to work with so they pace themselves so they don't get dogshit tired. MMA fighters have less time to work plus less rounds so they have to pick up the pace.

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Is it okay sharing your boxing gloves with your friend? I recently got a pair and my mate doesn't have any equipment of his own so he told me he wanted to use my fresh new gloves.

I haven't even broken them into the shape of my hand yet so I don't know whether to say yes or no. I'd feel like a stingey fuck if I refuse.

>>1344423
There's nothing wrong with sharing them, though I don't think there's much wrong with keeping them as yours because of the handshape thing, too.

>>1344423
>he told me he wanted to use my fresh new gloves.
>I haven't even broken them into the shape of my hand
>I'd feel like a stingey fuck
Are you implying that you have an older pair he can use?
Maybe you should tell him you want to break them in before you let him use them.

>>1331650
You put too much effort into this shitpost for it to go unacknowledged. I feel bad for you

>>1331947
Nobody can beat a guy who comes out steroids out to fight

>>1345941
>You put too much effort into this shitpost for it to go unacknowledged.
I didn't put very much effort into it, desu.
When I do stuff like that, it's often in a "auto-piolet" mental state, senpai.
It's like when you've done something so many times, like drive to work, you do it one day and get to work, then you exit auto-piolet mode, and you think about how you don't remember the drive to work.
Perhaps, like having walked to a part of your home so many times that you walk there and then don't remember why yo did it.
It's kind of similar to a reflex.
It's not exactly conscious effort.
You can look this stuff up online, though; I forgot what the nomenclature was called.

Personally, I've noticed that I've fought on "auto-piolet" a few times, Often when I've been sleep deprived.
My game isn't the usual relatively focused, analytical, and calculative, game.
My strategy becomes less dynamic and intentional. I still end up doing pretty decent, though.

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Why do you guys think Bas punched harder than Steve?
You can find the videos on YouTube.

Is the uppercut stronger than the power cross?

Is it because of the distance they punched from?

Is it the gloves?

>>1349407
>Why do you guys think Bas punched harder than Steve?
A number of factors. One if that Bas Rutten seems like he's in a lot better shape, and a lot bigger than that guy.

Another factor is that pounds of force represents only a limited perspective on the power of a blow. Throwing more weight into it will always be the easiest way to increase it. So yeah, a uppercut will be more effective at that then a straight.

How to work past a really fast jab? I worked with someone today, and it was so quick I couldn't get any head movement past it.

Landed a few counter rights, but couldn't get inside. Should I just stay out there?

>>1351150
If your technique is solid, and your reaction time is good, you just need your muscles to be able to make you move faster.
The better your reflexes are, the sooner you identify the jab, the more time you have to do something about it.

>Landed a few counter rights, but couldn't get inside. Should I just stay out there?
You want to fight smart.

You could be relying too heavily on head movement. Move back out with footwork while moving your head if you need to. You could mix head movement with parrying. You could mix parrying with footwork.
Not defending the same way all the time, and mixing the ways you defend, makes it harder for your opponent to hit you with follow up.

If you're moving and getting hit with the jab, you need to make yourself less predictable. Work fakes and feints more, work different rhythms, and work more angles.

If your opponent is just blasting your with jabs you need to be more aggressive so he has to sacrifice attacking more for defending himself.

What range you stay in, when you change that range, and how you do it, all depends on the situation. Sometimes, it's better to stay outside. Sometimes, it's better to work inside. It's better to change the distance at some times than it is others.

>>1336910
>>1336920
>>1336926
It's pretty cool thinking about how strategy is a part of all martial arts

>>1351242
>The better your reflexes are, the sooner you identify the jab, the more time you have to do something about it.
I'm getting that there's an 'arm's race' between head movement and jab speed. Against almost everyone at my gym, I've got the lead. But there's one kid with a good, proper boxing base.

But long term, does headmovement keep up with the jab? Should I just work on headmovement and parrying more to get quicker? I can't imagine reacting fast enough.

>Move back out with footwork
Sorry for not clarifying, I could move back out of the way fine with it, but I couldn't close effectively against it. I could keep back, and counter with rights, but I don't like when my opponent can dictate range and pace of the fight. Especially since I got some good shots on the inside, when he neglected the jab.

>>1347756
Ive seen too many top notch shitposters to say you are king shitposter but you are definitely trying

>>1351242
Me personally I'm a big fan of the "mummy" guard favored by George Foreman, where you have your arms outstretched, palms out to block shots. Rather than engage in a straight jab-off you use your hands to jam the lead, straight blows in general really, and take advantage of having taken away your opponent's quickest weapons and his need to punch around your defense with slower looping punches to land your own blows. It can work both to help you get into the infight or at some distance if you have a solid jab of your own.

>>1351301
>But long term, does headmovement keep up with the jab? Should I just work on headmovement and parrying more to get quicker? I can't imagine reacting fast enough.

Watch Mayweather or Rigondeaux, their head movement is superb even against fast hands. Work the double end bag with a lot of emphasis on head movement (stay close to it and use your head movement to dodge the bag), do the slip rope more, and work mitts with emphasis on head movement.

Practice jabbing and slipping in the mirror. Use the double jab to get in and make him hesitate a little more with his jab. Be prepared to eat a few but know that by doing so you're setting up your own offense.

Knock the jab away with small movements from your rear hand and throw a counter jab.

Those are all ways I've been taught to deal with a good jab. Anyone else has better advice, listen to them.

>>1351301
>Sorry for not clarifying, I could move back out of the way fine with it, but I couldn't close effectively against it.
What I was trying to say was you should use footwork and head movement at the same time if you aren't already doing it.
You haven't mentioned working angles very much. I think you should use footwork while slipping the jab so you're not just avoiding the punch but also working an angle that can help you get inside. Side stepping and pivoting stuff.

But if staying outside and countering is working for you I don't see why you shouldn't do it.

Is there a possibility my local rec center could have a decent boxing program? It says that they're sanctioned and that you must compete to join which sounds good, but I don't know if rec centers ever even produce good boxers or if you need to go to a dedicated boxing gym for that.

>>1354807
Talk to the coach, find out what kind of records his/her fighters has. The best gyms tend to be in the weirdest places.

I didn't know Muhammad Ali was still alive until people on 4chan start saying he died.

>>1322062
What is knuckle boxing and where do I watch it?

Didn't read the thread because loldrunk, but I can tell you what's the biggest problem with boxing. It has too many fucking weight classes. Seriously. UFC is following the same path because they're fucking retarded. Back in the day when UFC had 5 weight classes, even if I didn't care to watch that particular weight class, I knew who the Champs were. Now I don't know who the fuck the superfeatherweight champ is, nor do I know in boxing or care.

See what I'm doing?

Also didn't help that Don King is an asshole and ruined boxing forever. May he burn on hell that piece of shit.

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>>1306126
>diluting the talent of a sport just so you can identify with the fighters

holy shit lol

this is why no one respects you faggots

>>1356316
>implying UFC has superfeatherweight
>implying the lower weightclasses in UFC aren't stacked with talent
>implying you're not a casual for not knowing the champs of the lower weightclasses

UFC has 8 weightclasses for the men and 2 for women. Boxing has over 15 for men. UFC expanded weightclasses when they had enough of a talent pool to warrant it, and the only ones that look particularly thin are Flyweight which is a fairly recent addition and heavyweight because there's just not that many big men in the sport at the moment, let alone with the talent to make top 15.

>>1305989
Why isn't this on /sp/?

>>1356907
This is the problem with /asp/ now.

>>1356910
It's not alternative sports at all. It's just "sports". Mainstream sports. Boxing should not be relegated to this board.

>>1356911
Because part of the reasonew /asp/ was created was on allow participants of these alternative sports (skateboarding, martial arts, airsoft, etc) to talk about their participation in said hobbies. These boxing threads were more meant to discuss training and technique rather than which boxers are our favorite and shit-posting about ones we don't like or known are popular.

Is it common for gyms to allow people to pay a membership fee that allows them to use their equipment to train, and participate in sparring but without having to take lessons?

I've got some experience already and at the moment all I want to do is spar but I'm not sure if gyms even let people spar if they don't sign up for classes.

>>1356967
Honestly the division should be between spectator sports and participating in sports yourself. That's always what /asp/ has been about, well until it turned into mandrama central anyway.

>>1357305
>all I want to do is spar
This.
I just want to fight people like I'd sit down and play Call of Duty.
Just like I'd go to a pub and drink a beer.

I just want to have fun.

I don't care about being some legendary Call of Duty master that competes in video gaming tournaments.

I just want to get online, find people to play with, and fucking play Call of Duty.

I just want to fight people.

>>1357305
My boxing gym doesn't make us take classes. If we're interested and listen, the coaches will teach us when they have time (they are more focused on helping amateurs train for bouts).

If you choose not to listen and pay dues and aren't a danger to yourself or others, fine you can use the equipment.

I'd figure that if you want to spar then you'd have to sign the waiver, give them a chance to see where you are skill-wise, then let them match you up with one of their guys in a safe and controlled environment. Liability is a big deal and they can't just let you and a buddy get in the ring and start swinging at each other.

I've talked about him before and I'm pretty sure you're not "that guy," but we have someone who came in and just wanted to spar. He didn't do bag work, he didn't take to coaching, and he didn't really work out either. He just came in, talked a lot, watched a lot, and wanted to spar. Me and a buddy used to spar him when we were both still new and not very good, but it's at a point where he would just get smeared across the canvass even if we took it easy on him. Coach doesn't lIke him coming in any more.

>>1356911
So would wwe be considered a sport? Isn't it more entertainment that should go the fuck away?

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>>1357860
>mad

>>1357883
You're right, I am mad. This used to be my favorite board and then you asshats came and made crappy post after post. I don't even mind wwe on here. In fact, back when it was limited to a couple of threads, it was almost refreshing. Now I have to scroll to see one good martial art thread out of a bajillion cm punk threads.

>>1357890
>Now I have to scroll to see one good martial art thread out of a bajillion cm punk threads.
Since I hear about CM Punk fighting in the UFC, I find some of them kind of refreshing, but I could do without all the other Pro-Wrestling threads.

>>1305989

I'm sick of X.

Y is better than X because I like it more. A person is trying to make Y great again but nobody cares.

btw what happens when a boxer fights an MMA fighters? they get their one dimensional asses kicked.

>no ground game
>no kicks
>no grapple
>HUURR DURR I CAN STRIKES REAL GOOD MASSA

Never done straight boxing before, but is blocking/deflecting punches a taboo or against the rules? It's been bugging me to see people talk about their struggle with basic things that could be solved by a deflection and counter and instead suggesting they aren't moving fast enough or something

>>1357965

Those are both skills you learn when you start boxing. The problem is that applying them against a trained boxer is considerably harder than it looks.

Boxers don't really over-commit to punches, so deflections only cause a boxer's arm to be out of position for an instant. Typically boxers feel out with a jab which, when deflected, doesn't create a huge window to "counter," so it isn't as easy as just "deflect the punch and counter, it works every time!"

Same with blocking. Blocking GENERALLY means you can't throw punches because you're basing up to absorb the punches. Typically blocking is an invitation for the opponent to open up and REALLY start sitting on punches since they will be able to see counters coming easier.

At least from what I've been taught, the general hierarchy is

Attack first
Slip and counter
Deflect and counter
Block and counter

Unless you're a good counter puncher and have good vision, you're typically having to adjust to the other guy's rhythm if you do anything other than "attack first." When you let the other guy dictate rhythm, you're putting the fight in their hands. If you're not slipping, then you're typically leaving your head still and you're going to be set up for a follow up attack after the initially defended attack.

Again, this is all basic "why it's not always the first thing encouraged." I'm not trying to say that blocking and deflecting is ineffective in boxing, because that's not true at all. If you want to see some tremendous, tremendous defense, watch Lee Wylie's video on Mayweather's strategic genius.

https://youtu.be/hmdJXCBU068?t=5m59s

The beginning of the video is more about his offensive genius. Starting about there you can see some analysis of his defensive techniques and how he used them.

>>1357959
Holly holm and Rhonda rousey. Perfect example of what a well trained boxer can do to a decent MMA fighter. Underestimate boxing at your own risk. You don't really know how fucking hard it is to penetrate a boxers defense underneath a flurry of well timed punches.

>>1358078
>can do to a decent MMA fighter
She was all Judo no MMA.

>>1358022
Hmm. Fair enough, well broken down analysis of it.
Honestly I think I'll just need to go spar some proper boxers to see it all works and to figure out if my defense works against them.
Currently in my club it's come to a point where I very rarely have an effective hit land on me when we spar hands only. Usually by a combination of slipping, deflections and blocks with simultaneous counters to disrupt/reverse momentum.

>>1358131
Personally, I used to spar with a guy a lot who trained Wrestling and Boxing, and practiced MMA afterwards.
This was a good amount of years ago, so we were both less experienced.
He was a Brawler or Slugger, especially when we were sparring under Boxing rules.
Boxing rules + Bare knuckle, full contact, head shots were allowed.
With my combination of footwork and parrying, he landed less than 75% of hit total committed punches. I also used head movement, so that also contributed to his missing, but I used parrying a lot more, it was my main defense against punches.
He also didn't have conditioned forearms, and after rounds, would mention how his forearms were in pain, and he ended up with bruised forearms.

He punched to the head most of the time a large majority of the time, he was a head hunter, and he used head movement more for defense than anything.
I constantly and consistently landed body shots on him.

I spar with different people now, but they still have Boxing experience, even if they've all cross trained, and under Boxing rules, usually modified with backfists, hammer fists, and spinning techniques allowed, parrying is still very effective.

Gloves also make a big difference, it's a lot more difficult to slip a punch past a guard when it's so big because of the hefty Boxing gloves, and the fist is so big because of the gloves.

>>1357860
>So would wwe be considered a sport?
No. It's live performance art. There is not actual competition occurring so it can't be a sport. It should either have its own board or be on /tv/.

>>1338200
>people think lion fight is anything other than a back water over hyped american promotion

>>1305989
> boxing is far more more entertainimg than wrestling

Well can you jump off the top turnbuckle in boxing and perform your finishing maneuver? No? Thats what I thought.

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>>1358573
You can do something like that in MMA.

>>1358655
Yeah but in boxing you cant do that because its lame

Yo is there some reason I'm supposed to dislike Max Kellerman? Other than being a Jew and all.

>>1358078
>Holly holm and Rhonda rousey
Yes, or simply Joanna Jędrzejczyk's entire career.

>>1344423
>Is it okay sharing your boxing gloves with your friend?
Fuck that shit, cheap gloves exist for a reason. And it's gross as fuck too, he's gonna sweat in them and make them stink, why would you want that

>>1306682
>stupid HIIT conditioning exercises
kill yourself, although i agree on some points there's some MMA fighters that don't spar.

Getting punches parried is like getting kicks checked, except it's not only shin to shin contact.

The outer side of the forearm is where it's mostly bone.
The rest is meat.

Parrying can be thought of like a strike, you don't just push your opponent's punch away, you're striking your opponent's forearm.

When you parry, you could hit the outside of your forearm to their outside.
You could hit with the outside of your forearm to their upper forearm meat.
You could hit with the outside of your forearm to their inside forearm meat.
You could hit with the outside of your forearm to their lower forearm meat.

You could use the hand to parry, you could use the gloves to parry, you could use the wrists to parry, and you could use the forearms to parry.

>>1360632
>>1358022
>deflections only cause a boxer's arm to be out of position for an instant.
This isn't unique to boxers.
The more skill any martial artist has, the more difficult it's going to be to use any martial arts technique against that martial artist.

Boxers aren't the only people who focus on retract a punch back to guard.

Parrying could be an art all of itself.

I remember seeing an Expert Boxing video about boxing being posted in earlier threads.

It looks like Boxers focus on more subtle parrying and returning to guard, since guard seems like a main element of Boxing, and I remember the downwards parry.

There're a lot of different kinds of parrying, and a lot of different ways to parry.

You can add more kinetic linking to a parry, and use varying levels of power for parrying.

If you're using a philly shell guard, and someone throws a jab to your head, you could use your lower hand to parry so the distance it travels generates more speed and force, use kinetic linking and body rotation to make it more powerful, so this really knocks the jab thrower's arm out of position, and you could further follow throw to further push their arm out of position or block them from retracting it.

The harder you parry, the further their arm is going to go out of position, and the longer it's going to take for them to retract.
It's kind of similar to the Roughhousing section of the Mayweather video you posted.
There could also be some other parts similar to that's I don't remember, but I don't have time to re-watch the video right now.

Committing more to parrying leaves you open, but the same thing could be said about the jab or any punch.
Anything you do leaves you open.
It's about how you use it that counts.

You can be like a Slugger with your parrying, or you could be like an Out-Boxer with your parrying.

What do you guys think about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdyFPMwampk

>>1363612
JT Van V is generally a reliable source.

Any exercises to improve my speed and also defense?

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Daily reminder that Manchester RUNS boxing.

>>1305989
Boxing is too corrupt, no american stars, no heavyweights, Mayweather was the most boring ass top draw in a "major" sport in American history

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how to get into boxing?

any tips on what to do

should i go into a gym and ask for lesson or what?

any tips on beginning to get into it, i'm 18

been gyming for about 3months

had asthma but havent used pump for about 2 years, my stamina n cardio is shit (unless on treadmill at like 5-10kmh

you think i can do it with bad stamina?

>>1364898
Double end bag will help with hand speed and head movement

>>1365624
>Boxing is too corrupt,
Yes

>no american stars,
Deontay Wilder is working to get there. He's boisterous, affable, huge, and has ridiculous punching power.

>no heavyweights,
Deontay Wilder, and I'll be honest watching heavyweights throw bombs at each other is only so entertaining. There are plenty of guys at other weights that are great to watch.

>Mayweather was the most boring ass top draw in a "major" sport in American history
Opinion. Though I'll agree that one of the biggest problem with boxing is that unless you're a student of the game or a participant it's a LOT more difficult to appreciate. Like, I can watch Football or Basketball and enjoy the highlight moments, but because of how convoluted and corrupt the system is for boxing, it's hard to find someone to latch on to and watch exciting boxing.

Perfect example is Guillermo Rigondeaux. He's freaking amazing, but because of his Nonito Donaire fight (another great smaller fighter), critics and major journalists widely panned him for being "boring."

>>1365640
Find a gym, tell the coach why you're there, they'll give you guidance. If they don't or immediately try to kill you to see if you're "tough enough,' leave. That's not the point. I'm a school teacher that started doing it to get in shape and I'm having my first amateur fight in a few weeks.