Let's settle this. Is kung fu a viable form of self defense?

>>1298125
Yes.

>>1298134
/thread

>>1298125
Kung fu has very poor quality control. It's hard to find decent schools that teach with a true fighting mindset. Notice that it depends on what Chinese fighting style you're talking about.

Sanda is decent. Anything internal is a joke for combat. Chinese kickboxing is okay. Hung gar, praying mantis, pretty much karate with animal stuff.

Wing chun is garbage. Jkd is garbage. Kempo sucks ass. Chin na is only applicable under certain conditions.

A lot of Chinese stuff is either too damn fancy or too weapons based for any sort of practicality.

>>1298460
>I'm too stupid to study and fight with these arts so they're garbage

>>1298474
I've studied Chinese internals for 5 years. Fought some wing chunners. Done jujutsu for three. I finish more people with jujutsu than anything else.

>>1298502
And I'm a navy seal.

>>1298502
Hi phil

>>1298460
>Anything internal is a joke for combat
>>1298502
>I've studied Chinese internals for 5 years
Have you heard of Tim Cartmell?

why did the jews call it karate kid?in the story did the black kid think it was all karate before being educated?

>>1298874
For shekels, the movie will obviously make more if the title is a play on the original. And no, the kid knows it's kung fu the whole time.

[spoiler]This is unironically one of my favorite movies, now tell me how much shit taste I have.[/spoiler]

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>>1298891
>[spoiler]This is unironically one of my favorite movies, now tell me how much shit taste I have.[/spoiler]
I've never seen it. What did you think about The Forbidden Kingdom?

>>1298125
Why was it called Karate Kid when he learned kung fu?

>>1298912
I guess it's because it's the same storyline but with King Fu. The main idea of Karate Kid transcends Karate alone.

>>1298912
Karate Kid was never about Karate, it was about philosophy, so Karate Kid was actually about the deeper meaning behind Goju-Ryu Karate.

>>1298125
No.

>>1298902
It was an ok flick, but not that good really.

>>1298926
What's a better movie?

>>1298502
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEGjWKDFWpI

>>1298460
How about systema?

>>1298502
The number of Chinese internal teachers who know what they are talking about, and openly teach it is surprisingly small.

No, it's garbage.

>>1301373
You can get by with garbage in a street fight.

>>1299767

House of Flying Daggers
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
The Raid
Iron Monkey
Hero
Drunken Master
Enter The Dragon
Fists of Fury
Bloodsport
The Quest

>>1301388
Not if your opponent has some real experience.

>>1301182
It is just because the internals require so much dedication to use. you really have to practice a lot to be the real deal, and be with a very good teacher.

>>1299767
Drunken Master has some of the best fight scenes I have seen in any movie and the 36th Chamber of Shaolin is mostly a sick training montage with a few pretty cool fights.

>>1301604
Its because many are only passing down a shadow of the original art or only share the information with inner students

>>1298125

Kung fu is a catch-all term for all of the martial arts which exist in China.
After studying kung fu (Bei Shaolin) for a few years, I went to a karate dojo for something new. These folks were decent fighters. But I could spar pretty evenly with the high belts. I'd say kung fu is perfectly viable unless you're talking about professional fighters.

A kung fu fighter can beat any untrained fighter just as easily as a boxer can. That's easy, and the most likely situation you'll find yourself in if you're going to fight outside of competition. As for other trained fighters, it really depends. I'm sure a good kung fu guy could beat the shit out of an amateur boxer who's won a few fights in the ring, especially if he/she trains in a style which emphasizes leg kicks or grappling.

Anyone who tells you that kung fu (internal or external, buddhist or taoist, etc) is useless only says that because the only fights they've probably seen have been with some of the top athletes and most skilled fighters in the world. And at this point I think it's fair to say that any given time you turn on the UFC you'll be watching one of the most skilled hand-to-hand fighters in the history of our species. That causes a lot of bias.

>>1302059
>A kung fu fighter can beat any untrained fighter just as easily as a boxer can. That's easy, and the most likely situation you'll find yourself in if you're going to fight outside of competition.
Alcohol consumption is an extremely large contributor to assault.
The most common scenario is getting into a fight wherever people drink alcohol. House parties, college parties, bars, clubs, homeless people, running into people who've had a bad day, being in Russia or around a lot of Irish people.

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>>1298554

>>1302059
>>1302076
The most common scenario is fighting someone who's drunk and can't fight.

>>1301169
Systema is garbage. Fantasy bullshit.

>>1302057
you have to also realize the basic understanding of the art loses some of its translation when handed down to a foreigner. I mean look at bruce frantzis. He's knowledgable enough on Chinese internals and has had decent training, but preaches so much on chi crap instead of the fighting fundamentals of the internals. A good teacher a going to emphasize method and usage more so than anything. Also, Chinese internal teachers taught in a way where the student could not ask questions, they had to follow their teacher and do until they got it.

>>1302059
I agree. I also think a ton of traditional Chinese martial arts have too many flowery techniques and not enough practical techniques for fighting. You'll have all the fanciful shit just to get mowed down by a kick boxer with a well trained small Arsenal of moves.

There was a time when Chinese martial arts were practiced harder and tai chi wasn't about the long fanciful forms but mastery of a couple of movements. Chen style tai chi is probably the most combat applicable in tai chi. Hung gar is pretty much fancy karate. It's not like it's not usable, but you have to put in a severe amount of work to make anything workable in Chinese martial arts and most people aren't willing to devote 5-8 hours or even have that much time to themselves to work technique repulse the monkey or whatever.

>>1301182
You have any names perhaps?
I want to try the internal CMAs but am looking for good teachers to do seminars with.
Tim Cartmell and Scott Rodell top my list and I've heard positive things about Dr. Yang and Ted Mancuso on MAP.

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>>1302525
There has been talk that some Chinese teachers simply will not teach those aspects of the art to westerners.

>>1302608
Ive never heard much about Tim that makes me think he is anything but a great juijitsu player. Most of the guys I would name here in the US are not even in CMA. People like Dan Harden, Toby Threadgill, Sam Chin and their students. only one of them is a pure CMA guy, most of them ave JMA guys.

The

>>1302540

Absolutely. After practicing tai chi for a long time what I've realized is tai chi is, at its heart, a grappling system. And once upon a time when people practiced grappling with each other in tai chi, it was probably effective. Especially given the context of martial arts in China, where grappling has never been as popular as it should be. Tai chi now is super flowery and has nothing to do with fighting, but in the context of its origins I can see what it might have been once upon a time.

I remember when I first started sparring in martial arts classes after studying tai chi. It took me many, many sparring sessions to even start using the basic fundamentals of tai chi while sparring at all, and in the end only a few techniques ended up being effective at all when I would use them.

But hey, it's fun imo to do tai chi, so I still do it anyway.

>>1302763
Right, it is essentially a grappling system, and not a bad one if you practice push hands correctly and practice active push hands in the circle. The problem is when they extended the kata and put too much emphasis on kata and not enough emphasis on actually using the damn art. The concept of silk reeling and using whole body power and yielding to your opponents attack are very applicable concepts used by some MMA fighters.

God tai chi is such a pain at the beginning. Constantly getting low, learning how to relax with your partner...etc etc

>>1302730
Yeah that is one thing I forget when it comes to the internal arts. But they do teach foreigners who stick with it more deeply.

>>1302825
There are a handful of westerners who have put a lot of time in, mostly in china who have come back with some know how, and there are some Chinese teachers who have a good reputation for sharing what they know, but that just means you have to know who is teaching you. If you live in the US than going with the three teachers I named would be a safer bet.

>>1302730
>Ive never heard much about Tim that makes me think he is anything but a great juijitsu player.
I just remember reading an interview where he talked about starting with kung fu (can't remember what style) for ~10years stateside and then studying taiji, bagua and xingyi in china for ~15years and competing in full contact tournaments with them whilst there. Only after he returned to the US did he learn BJJ. He also talked a lot about sparring and pressure-testing techniques.
It does make me wonder why he didn't feel the need to teach authentic CMA rather than BJJ (or in addition too), but he does still give seminars for CMAists.

>>1298125
Against normal people, yes.
Against big people, only if experienced.
Against professional fighters, no.

>>1301169
mystical russian aikido shit.

>>1298921
>goju fag pls go

>>1298125
no

>>1298125
dear kung fools,

If your ethnic dance was actually useful in a fight there would be fighters out there that could prove it. You'll talk all day about how theres so many fake masters out there but that your sifu knows REAL kung fu, not realizing how retarded that sounds to everyone else.

keep living the fantasy that you actually know how to fight if you want, but real fighting takes real work. Go join a boxing gym.

>>1298474
Even if what youre implying was true (which it isnt) all that means is that internal arts are an inefficient way of learning to fight.

Good job devoting yourself to retardation.

>>1303107
There a lot fewer serious kungfu fighters than MMA ones in the western world, even if 1 practitioner out of 10 could do well, you'll barely find 4, while even if BJJ produced 1 good fighter every 25, you'll find hundreds of them
Also why exactly would it be a priority for kungfu practitioners to win MMA matches?

It's not like I think kungfu is superior, I'm just reluctant to think that it's as bad as people say

>>1303157
Go to a kung fu school and it will change your mind.

There are TONS of strip mall kung fu and karate places where the students claim their master knows REAL martial arts. They just dont fight because they cant. And the ones that try get their asses handed to them.

>>1303162
it really is not fair to judge all kung fu people by the mcdojo crowd

>>1303171
Show me the not mcdojo crowd.

sanda is the only thing excluded from my criticism.

>>1303271

I'm not a CMA guy so I only know a few names worth noting.
San Chin would be one guy, did sanda when he was young, put the time in, never read about anyone who met the guy who did not respect his skills., and is producing students who have the same skills

>>1303288
>sanda is the only thing excluded from my criticism

>>1303288
I cant even find a google entry for someone named san chin

>>1303313
Sam Chin, sorry

>>1303318
still cant find shit on this guy. willing to bet he was either an ok tier sanda fighter or another bullshiter with no record at all.

>>1303409
Google or youtube bring up a ton of stuff on him

>>1303451
I think ive found the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcoehHKtHmM

Thats a real neat dance now wheres his fight record

>>1303472
I have no Idea where to find sanshou records, especially for someone as old as him.

I do know his school has sparring and encourages cross training in hard arts like muay thai. And I no of no one who has met him and walked away unimpressed

>>1298902

Why did they have the male lead that's not Jackie Chan or Jet Li?

>>1303477
So we're going on anecdotes of some guy who "impresses" unnamed people as proof that CMA outside of Sanda (which ive already said is excluded for being an actual martial art) is legit?

No. TMA always has and always will be inferior to modern training methods.

>>1303855
Well he really isnt TMA since his art was founded by his father.

I was unaware that an open fight record was now the authoritative test for a martial artist. If that is your standard than we can stop talking right now because I will never agree with you.

>>1303621
Have you watched anime? There're a lot of male leads who are very bland and blatantly normal so more people can relate to the characters in the anime.

>>1303863
I'm pretty sure he's just shitposting.

>>1303863
>I was unaware that an open fight record was now the authoritative test for a martial artist.

Is it 1992?

Because that has been the standard since at least 1993.

Martial artists fight. If you don't fight you're a dancer, and nobody here cares.

>>1304670
I care so that is one. I think you meant you dont care, which is fine.

>>1304683
It's obvious bait when he ignored how the guy's students spar and cross train in things like Muay Thai.

>>1303863
>HURR DURR showing your capable of fighting is unnecessary

Ok dude. Have fun.

>>1304707
The whole point of this argument was tk show rhat traditional Chinese martial arts (aka not sanda) are worthwhile in learning to fight. So if your students are just learning sanda and muay thai for fighting the whole dancing shit is irrelevant. Nevermind the fact that nobody knows who this guy is and nobody seems to be able to find his fight record.

>>1305042
Not what I was doing, I gave up trying to convince people of anything like that here. I was just noting that you should not lump people like him into the strip mall kung fu mcdojos.

>Dancing

His art only has two forms, The rest is internal exercises and two man drills that lead to sparring latter on. The goal of the training being that you can apply internal skills to anything, even other arts like muay thai. Compared to Tai chi its a pretty straight forward, modern approach.

If you want specific questions answered you should probably contact one of his students like Ashe Higgs who has a public presence.

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>join an Aikido dojo in my city
>instructor is a Japanese Immigrant
>Scared to ask questions because I don't want to offend his honour and get challenged to a match

>>1302059
"I'm sure a good kung fu guy could beat the shit out of an amateur boxer who's won a few fights in the ring, especially if he/she trains in a style which emphasizes leg kicks or grappling."
Unless the kung fu fighter in question is trained in years of san shou (Cung Le is a good example) and has some serious genetics and/or athleticism, than this statement is ridiculous.
The amateur boxer is going to be trained to hit and be hit. It is likely the boxer will have greater aerobic and anaerobic capacities.They will be more comfortable in the pocket exchanging, and will have a more effective footwork/format of mobility. Since they are used to full contact, the boxer's reaction time be faster do to greater acclimation to the biological stress environment fighting creates. Not to mention the practicality, efficiency, and damage potential of most punches versus the questionable efficacy of many techniques in many of styles of kung fu's
Don't let the "amateur" in amateur boxing fool you. A Golden Gloves is an amateur, and to get those, you've probably been training daily for a few years in realistic modes of violence.

>>1302059
"I'm sure a good kung fu guy could beat the shit out of an amateur boxer who's won a few fights in the ring, especially if he/she trains in a style which emphasizes leg kicks or grappling."
Unless the kung fu fighter in question is trained in years of san shou (Cung Le is a good example) and has some serious genetics and/or athleticism, than this statement is ridiculous.
The amateur boxer is going to be trained to hit and be hit. It is likely the boxer will have greater aerobic and anaerobic capacities. The boxer will be more comfortable in the pocket exchanging, and will have a more effective format of mobility(footwork). Since they are used to full contact, the boxer's reaction time be faster do to greater acclimation to the biological stress environment fighting creates. Not to mention the practicality, efficiency, and damage potential of most punches versus the questionable efficacy of many techniques in many of styles of kung fu's
Don't let the "amateur" in amateur boxing fool you. A Golden Gloves is an amateur, and to get those, you've probably been training daily for a few years in realistic modes of violence.

>>1305911
>"I'm sure a good kung fu guy could beat the shit out of an amateur boxer who's won a few fights in the ring, especially if he/she trains in a style which emphasizes leg kicks or grappling."
Who are you quoting?

>boxer is going to be trained to hit and be hit
>the boxer will have aerobic and anerobic capabilities
they are used to full contact
>reaction time
Martial arts aside, let's say both fighters run and do bodyweight exercises exactly the same way. They're both the same height, body type, weight, and have identical reach.
Now, let's add the martial arts aspect again.
Both fighters train full contact.

Now if the kung fu fighter is good, then that guy could beat the shit out of an amateur boxer who's won a few fights in the wring.

>>1303986
And yet he always manages to be on the cover art, standing there awkwardly while surrounded by cuet anumi grils.

>>1303472
I found this. His style is called I Liq Chuan, a sort of fusion of all the IMAs iiuc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXkmc9nbhNA&list=PLf18Q8T1EYJtzgFoIQ7_CcIodQuifR8M1&index=3

>>1305109

It's aikido. There are no matches.

Even if he did challenge you, he does aikido. It's one of the martial arts that actively make you worse at fighting than training nothing at all, because at least if you trained nothing at all you can imagine what a real attack looks like.

>>1306208
>they are used to full contact

Who's "they" in this setting? Kung fu guys? Lol, no.

>>1306521
>slippity slappity sparring

looks terrifying

>>1308985

the point of their art, as I understand it, is to learn to use internals in a free style environment, they dont actually teach many techniques

saw a video of one of their students winning a muay thai tournament.

>>1309009
>saw a video of one of their students winning a muay thai tournament.
Not the anon you replied to, but I'm interested in seeing that video.

>>1309034
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fDg2Lh-TDA

Y'all remember how Wu vs CCP went, right? And BaguaJJ vs CCP, too?

>>1309037
The Australian techno music is kind of distracting.

>>1309234
You mean how we punked out? Yeah. Not a good comparison though.

>>1298125
so why was that movie called karate kid?, they aren't even on japan.

>>1309037
Better than expected but to be fair blue was pretty bad.

>>1315468
It seems to be at the international level

>>1318733
In some parts of Europe, everything is international.