BWG Body weight General

>Official Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/DETH4J6k

>Safest Straight-Arm Progression (Steady State Cycles)
www.antranik.org/how-to-implement-a-steady-state-training-cycle

>Common Prereqs
www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/3750-prerequisites/?p=93540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkI1GBjj3eQ

>Wrist Prehab and Bodyline Exercises
www.kitlaughlin.com/docs/wrist-mobility_bodyline-exercises_handstands.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMfW2kCkeE

>Rice Bucket Prehab For Wrists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqZiVt9YBX0

>Bicep Tendon Prep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaH_HUMooyM

>Shoulder Dislocates for Mobility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NbuQdGdXH8

>Proper Scapula Positions For Statics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-njKUc-f9U&list=UUMrY-JHG6bF3LEdlDvhv7XA [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

>Ido Portal Scapula Mobilization
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Wo095zPnc

>Homemade parallette guide
http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/13_03_Parallettes.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvbbrulbW8Q

>Greasing the Groove explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGjtPtXXWCg

>Basic Stretching Routines
http://phraktured.net/

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Once i get a flat back lever do i still have to work dragon flags?

How do i get a Forearm Planche?

>gif related

Hit my first 30 second handstand recently. Really happy about that

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starting bodyweight tomorrow....hoping to get lean in the next 6 months and fill out my cheft and upper body

>>1252070

Just be pacient and follow a solid routine, and you shall see gains.

>>1246162
congrats dude, thats pretty damn cool especially if it's free stading.

>>1246162
Congratulations, that is great!

>>1252070
You are not fat so that seems like a realistic goal. Remember that proper diet is a big part of becoming leaner and/or bigger.

>>1244797
Back lever has almost nothing to do with dragon flags, especially if you arch your back during the later. Back lever is also a dangerous exercise for adults coming in unprepared.

Forearm planche is easier than normal planche. Just do normal planche training and you will get there.

>>1253043
thanks....started a more basic routine today

only makes me realize how weak my upper body and core are

>>1253596

I mean flat back front lever, once i get that do i still need to do dragon flags?

So I do weightlifting 3x week. Only snatches,cleans and squats. I've decided that I want to do bodyweight for everything else related to upper body.

>Where do I start? (I want to focus on multiple things at once, FL, Planche etc.)


I can do requirements mentioned in those Dan Jeong videos. (Planks, Hollow Holds, Superman Holds, Tuck Lsits, Support Holds) The only ones I can't do are German Hangs because I have no space and Wall Handstands.

>>1253596
thanks....im slightly sucking my gut in but i do have a gut that protrudes slightly and thats the main thing i want to get rid of

along with fixing ym posture and being able to do 5 full pull ups by the end of august

>>1253966
Dude, dragon flags/body levers are very different from each other. Yes, body levers will give you core strength that is somewhat applicable to back lever but not much. Generally I say body lever for front lever, planche training for back lever.

But you should not be doing back lever at all anyway unless you are at an intermediate stage with your shoulder extension and planche training. It is outright dangerous and literally a grind on the connective tissue.

>>1254709
Your gut is also a result of tight hip flexor muscles. You need stretching to sort out your arch in the lower back.

>>1254035
I suppose the exercises you mentioned will support your weightlifting quite well in terms of improving posture, core strength and power transfer between upper and lower body. But please understand that if you decide to outright do the more challenging body weight exercises you are overreaching. OL is hard on the body, so is body weight strength training if done to the fullest. Both will suffer if you add too much volume. FL and planche are both fairly advanced exercises which at best may take years of specialized training to achieve with good form

Why is inverted hang on bar is harder than inverted hang on rings?

>>1254830
Are there any others which may be more difficult than what I mentioned but not as advanced as those then?

Im focusing a lot of my handstands right now but was wondering if there was anything else I could practice too?

>>1254821
yea....ill start incorporating good stretching exercises

>>1254953
Try to look at the foundation exercises and handstand exercises. There is a lot of core work in the SL progressions like arch up progressions and side planks variations. There is also reverse plank progressions (found somewhere in F3 MN progressions I believe).

There is also a thread called prerequisites on the GB forum prior to F1 coming out. You have to dig that one up yourself, although I believe that GB moderator Joshua Slocum has a link in his signature.

>>1254928
Because your body is allowed to stay in between the rings. On a bar you have to have your lower body in front of you which puts more stress on the abdominals, arms and shoulders.

>>1244778
holyshit bump

>>1259661
I can't find his signature, sorry.

Is Starting Stretching a good program?

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/3750-prerequisites/?page=7#comment-93503

Found it!

Read the comment by Hernandez C. Very basic exercises which prepares you for the later ones. The described way of progressing them is not optimal, for proper progressions look at the foundation series for these exercises.

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I'm very skinny and never did hypertrophy before so I have little muscle. I'm trying to push down my scapula as hard as I can during planche push ups but no matter how much I try theres always a little winging. Is this bad form or my lack of muscle/fat makes the bones stick out more?

>>1264726
There will be a little winging if you are leaning deeply into the planche.

If, however, it is a mobility issue scapular shrugs will help building a larger range of motion.

You can post a form check and then I can take a look at it.

Guys I really want to get into Calisthenics but there are no parks with bars anywhere near by, and I hate working out in my apartment because I have no fucking room. I really want to start calisthenics but it's just so fucking discouraging. What should I do?

>>1266290
buy some rings and hang them on a basketball or tree or high plache

has anyone heard of the tests of whether or not one is able to do front and side splits, based on hip structure and ligament length?

i tried both tests and failed them. does this mean I will never get full splits?

>>1269813
I would like to see these tests. I cannot believe the results to be conclusive although I would say that individual proportions among many things would impact how slow/fast you can achieve the splits.

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>>1264726
Thanks I would post but I only have a shitty phone, no tripod and nobody to take the pictures.

Do these guys have poor posture? I don't understand this. Am supposed to have a straight back even if I'm very skinny? Every time I try to improve my posture I feel like I'm going too far. I look like B7.

>>1271274
B7 has anterior shift in posture meaning shoulders forward and neck forward. In short you should have tight anterior chain muscles and weak posterior chain muscles. Focusing on posterior chain strengthening exercises like rows and stretching the anterior chain muscles should solve this along with less time spent sitting, bicycling and generally leaning forward.

Cannot see lower back on B7

>>1271274
D2 looks like a worm crawling out of something.

>>1244778
who is this cutie?

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>>1271274

>>1271446
Shit. So I have the same problem, I thought that I look like this because I have no muscle or fat to fill out the curvature of spine.

>>1271908
You will feel like a new person once you fix the posture. It is amazing

In Startbodyweight basic routine it says to do static stretches after the workout. Why though? I always warm up and stretch before but never heard of stretching afterwards.

Also - what exercises are good for targeting lower back and muscles of the spine?

Are there any recommended diets for Foundation 1 and Handstand 1? I'm looking to gain some mass, and was wondering whether the standard lifting goals of bulking and cutting apply for bodyweight routines.

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>>1273718
Seconding this.
I'm thinking of just doing GOMAD with basic bodyweight progression

>>1273790
GOMAD is joke, dont do it. You will get too much fat and all bodyweight excercises will be harder

>>1274304
Well I need to put on weight and I want to do bodyweight. Do I just have to diet the hard way? Cause I like the simplicity of drinking a bunch of milk.

>>1274306
Its not the hard way, its the right way. GOMAD is a fucking joke, you shouldnt be fat if you want to do bw. I was skinny af and i began dieting the normal way and i am actually growing

>>1244778
just lift weights, you contrarians

>>1244778
Lose weight

>>1273718
>>1273790

You can absolutely bulk while running a bodyweight routine. Just make sure it covers your whole body and features compound movements.

I can't speak for Foundation 1 and Handstand 1, but I've gained a good bit of mass doing the /r/bodyweightfitness recommended routine. I just started to cut and will bulk again soon as I'm feeling lean enough.

Up you go!

>>1274540
I was thinking about some hypertrophy in Starting Bodyboulding (summer is coming)

Would it make any sense to change the program and go up to 3x12, instead of 3x8 for a given excercise, and start at 3x6 (instead of 3x3 or 3x4) for the next?

What is a good stretching routine?

>>1280149
Wow.
This place a desert since the rasslin folks took over.

For the people who actually have course access to F1; technical videos have been uploaded with a short, yet precise description of how the individual elements should be performed. Sadly they do not comment much on requirements for mastery, but they do in every way describe exactly how they want the exercise to be done. It is a great addition, and I must about I learned something about the full hollow body hold as well.

For the nerds the videos also indirectly shows how to spot people for the exercises. Great for personal trainers or simply for people trying to get their friends to do it right.

>>1280675
I noticed that today too. Great addition, I was irritated at how they've been trying to push GB Pro down people's throats, when the problem was an incomplete product without enough teaching cues in the first place.

Hey guys im >>1252070 so far im week 2 in my bodyweight routine and fuck i have to make my pushups easier by leaning on raised stairs.

is it all with just sticking to my beginner progressions and ill soon see improvement

also is it viable to keep cutting as i already am with weak chest and upper back strength. I want to get lean definition but im worried my cutting goal from 170 l bs to 160 lbs will affect strength development

>>1244778
That webm is just fucking insane...


Quick question about V up from foundation 1, it says to "pike as much as possible at the top of each repetition"
I was just wondering what that means? Does it mean to hold the top position as much as possible? Or to get the legs as high as possible?

>>1285188
Fold forward at the hips at reach for your toes. That is called a pike position. It means you should close the angle between your legs and pelvis as much as possible.

>>1274306

I was thinking of doing that, but there are a few things to consider.

1. I'm lactose intolerant so buying all those lactate bills is a bit expensive. Don't know if you are but drinking that much milk will fuck up your stomach either way.

2. You'll get a lot of fat, although decent gains

I figure it's better to just use milk to hit your goal calories every day. So if you eat 2k normally, drink a half gallon. etc.

Been doing Coach Sommer's GST fundamentals 1 and handstand 1 for the past 2 months, I've seen improvement and I like how the rests between the sets are always mobility exercises.

>>1270568
here are the tests.

http://www.stadion.com/method-of-testing-your-potential-to-do-a-front-split/
http://www.stadion.com/misconceptions-on-stretching-and-flexibility-and-the-method-of-testing-your-potential-to-do-a-side-split/

pavel tsatouline's book "relax into stretch" has a foreword in which he describes the side split test and uses it to encourage readers that a side split is not possible because you can do this test. however i am one of the few who seems to have failed it. probably not what he had in mind when he wrote that, lol. i assume that means that most people are capable.

>>1287312
Is that book any good?

>>1289078
It's good but extremely simplistic, just read the techniques in the start of the book and then apply them in the places you want to stretch, most of the explanations he gives about the actual stretches are like they were written for grandmas.

In the end of the day his book says one thing: Just sitting in a static stretch won't do much, CONTRACT your muscles during stretching and learn to relax and then contract again while keeping control of your breathing all the time.

>>1289078
its a must have. i'd say it was required reading for anyone interested in improving flexibility.

i'd also like to add to the other anon's post that it goes into detail about holding static stretches comfortably for very long periods of time (5-10 minutes) until the muscle adjusts nicely and goes loose. takes forever but i can attest to this being an excellent way to improve mobility, especially in straddle stretches and side split stretches.

also, his choices of stretch are a little odd to me, some of them are fairly advanced and i just couldn't get a proper stretch from lots of them. but his explanations of contract-relax techniques make it worth reading, definitely.

For anyone training pull ups these 4 tips are worth considering:

http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/4-ways-improve-pull-ups/

>>1287312
Will look at the tests once I have the time to do so properly. Thank you

So, GB fundamentals. What is it and is it worth it?

GB has a habit of being VERY vague in their product descriptions

>>1290254
It is an appetizer for their foundation series. They experienced that a lot of people had trouble with the terminology, commitment, rigidness and correct form of the foundation exercises. You basically follow along a workout 6 days a week for 15 minutes a day where beginner exercises from movement, foundation, handstand and the stretch series appear.

I have been practicing planche for the past two-three weeks or so. Can hold a solid tuck with some bands for about 20 seconds. I'm 6'2" and 213 lbs, although I want to cut down to 200 to make planche easier. How soon should I expect to have straddle planche for a few seconds considering I train 4-5x a week and get ample recovery?

>>1294062
Assuming you are training intelligently, have average athletic ability and aiming for a straddle planche with good form; 2-4 years. It varies a lot.

I have a very recurrent discomfort and mild pain that appears in the pinky side of my wrist and forearm whenever I start doing ring rows or pullup hangs. I have tried lowering voulme (from 4x8 to just 3x5) and intensity (I do the easiest incline row variation now) and even done total rest for about a month but the pain and discomfort starts whenever I start doing said exercises. The zone is always tender, tight and hurts whenever I massage it. It's almost a year and I can't figure out a way to get past this annoyance which is keeping me from progressing in my pulling work.

Any help how to recover?

bumo

>>1295851
I am sorry, but we will not be able to help you with medical advice. You need to find a doctor or physical therapist.

>>1294062
You're heavier, taller, and probably didn't have a background in bodyweight fitness-- so it's going to take longer.

I went from tuck planche to full planche in 2 months.
5'11"
167lbs

>>1301831
That is pretty impressive if you have even slightly good form, in fact I have not ever heard of such a short training time. Do you mind to post a picture or a video?

>>1301928
Nay. My posture is actually quite poor. (Legs and back aren't perfectly flat yet. They sag and are just barely off of the ground).

It's the best I've heard of either. Unfortunately, I injured my anterior deltoid on Monday and have no pictures of current progress.
I think most people could make the same progress with the same starting point as me.


I used bands for progressive overload. I had 3 10lb resistance bands and some ankle weights. I just worked on being able to planche at 30lbs of resistance, added 5lb ankle weights next workout, did it at 20lbs of resistance, et cetera.

From what I've read about training some of the gurus advise against using bands-but I think it is crucial.


My planche training had 4 components.

>Lifts
>Holds
>Lifting from a hold
>Push ups

For lifts, I would just get off of the ground at the least resistance possible. It didn't have to be high. At least 3 sets of 10.

For holds, I would go 5lbs of resistance less than the lifts and hold for 5 sets of 30.

For the lifts from hold I would get in a medium height planche and lift my legs to past parallel. This would be done at the same weight as holds.

For planche push ups I would go 10lbs of resistance less than the basic lifts and go for 3x10 as well.
I did this 2-3 times a week.

I hurt my shoulder by coming out too quickly of the planche instead of leaning out. The pain isn't terrible, but I'm afraid I can't train for 2 weeks

Went from 1-arm plank to planche leans. Now my elbows hurts (tendons) FML

>>1302124
I had a one arm chin up before I ever messed with planches. Tendons held up fine 4me

>>1252070
I would say I am roughly similar in shape to this guy. I'm possibly a touch heavier (5'8, 67kg).

I cycle to work when the weather allows it. I have a wound that is being slow to heal so can't swim at the moment. Want to do some calisthenics.

What kind of routine should I do for developing some chest/arm muscles and getting a bit of a firmer chest (I am realistic in what I can get from calisthenics).

I can do press-ups, chair/bed dips, pull-ups using a table, planks. Basically, I have very very little equipment. My doors can't take a pull-up bar.

>>1253950
What routine?

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Strength gain wise
How does weighted calisthenics measure up against SL5×5 or SS?

>>1302805
If you're going the weighted calisthenics route, then be consistent and use elastic bands for deloaded advanced movements.

I think it holds up well, but most people see better results with barbell programs (or any program that is consistent and measured) because the progressive overload is much easier to accurately measure and adjust.

>>1302837
can you give me examples of deloaded advanced movements, and why should i use bands with them?

>>1302864
Faster progress.


I used a pulley and a harness to train the one arm chin up. You just have weight on the other side and decrease it at a consistent rate.

Same thing with resistance bands. On a planche or lever they go at your feet, and you use an understanding of programming along with set/rep schemes to avoid hitting plateaus.


The main reason is that you get quicker progress than with regular progressions (going from one movement to the next). It's more efficient and consistent.

>>1301935
Resistance bands are tricky to use if you want good form in your planche.

It sounds strange that you can hurt a prime mover just by coming out of the planche too quickly. Perhaps you had an underlying injury of some sort. For the safest entry and exit you have to lean in and raise the feet and lean back out again.

I will not comment much on your planche training in general, because I believe most people here want a planche with good form. Building the connective tissue strength, protraction strength, ppt strength, body awareness and flexibility requires you to have perfect form all the time you train. A bent arm, piked hips, arched back, legs bent planche (not saying that you do all these mistakes) will have very little carryover to a perfect planche because it is literally an entirely different body position with different muscle activation in mid to lower body, different shoulder position and different "feeling".

>>1302124
Rest it out for some weeks, start gradually again with sPL PE 1 week 1 and work your way through again as a safeguard.

The injury might have arisen because of too much lean too soon.

>>1302805
Weighted calisthenics is weighted squats or?

Calisthenics, or body weight strength training in general, can only take you so far with regards to lower body strength training. Weights are needed for further development.

>>1302837
>>1302864
I disagree about bands. Proper deload should happen without bands. The purpose of deloading is to allow the body to catch up.

So if you cut your volume in half, you deload. But if you do bands, you do not necessarily cut the total muscle stress (volume) in half.

Quicker progress does not come with bands. If you truly give your best effort every workout you will need to deload. If you do not deload, you will experience plateauing and injury.

Even if we say that you somehow calculate half of the regular muscle stress with bands and actually do deload, then why even do bands? They are at best obsolete

>>1303912
From what I've been reading about my injury and what I can tell I was letting my anterior deltoids and traps take more of the load than other parts of the body.

This is likely a side effect of both using the bands and advancing too quickly.

Being that I went from tuck planche to full planche in 2 months I do not believe that they are inferior when compared to how slowly other people have progressed.


If I could change it, I wouldn't have trained as hard the last week. I let my form get sloppy (arms were straight, legs and pelvis were fine, back wasn't properly utilized).

>>1303917
If your anterior delts and traps do the majority of the work it is due to inadequate serratus anterior activation. Serratus anterior stabilizes the shoulder girdle by abducting the shoulder blades (pushing them away from each other). In calisthenics it is common to have adducted shoulder blades (shoulder blades close to each other).

So we are down to advancing too quickly and incorrect form (perhaps due to bands work - yet I have no idea why you recommend your nemesis to other people, if you believe the bands are directly responsible for your injury).

And yes, your planche training is inferior to normal planche training. You did not achieve a full planche - you achieved a planche with bad form; no protraction and no posterior pelvic tilt, and we have yet to see other errors that you might not spot. It took you 2 months to injure yourself and attain a party trick. Other people care more about correct form and reducing the risk of injury, that is why they progress at a slower rate.

I am not trying to be personal, but I really dislike seeing people follow an inferior approach to training to achieve an inferior planche while putting them in risk of injury. I also dislike giving people false hopes in achieving the planche in two months, that simply cannot happen properly, even with godly genetics.

I am studying sports science and have trained for planche for some time, I consider myself well-versed in both the practical and theoretical aspects of planche training. I have been active both online and in real life where I have been conversing with people who have trained people to achieve a correct planche or have one themselves. Some of them are not just enthusiasts who have spent a few months training. They have been training for years to decades, actually achieved something for themselves or others without injuring themselves.

Everyone is free to choose how they train for their planche, but I do believe they have a right to know what is up and what is down

>>1304225
It's not a serious injury, so I'd still recommend it.
1 more week of training would have prevented it altogether-but the rate of uptake wouldn't have been possible without bands. The bands weren't the main reason for the injury.


What you said about under-utilizing the serratus anterior is what I was reading said, so that sounds right.


I'll have a picture or video of form posted in 1-2 weeks so we'll know how bad my form is.

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So I found a progression that I could use to build volume for the full elbows planche. Why do you gents think? What should I try next after I get 60 seconds ?

>>1304765
I just home I'm at the right angle, also why do people seem to
Be grabbing onto somthing when performing the plank planche?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mItIMm15oCM

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>>1304780

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>>1304804

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>>1304806

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>>1304809

>>1304765
Inadequate protraction. This variation would be better if performed with feet slightly resting on an object. Perhaps while doing a few bounces like in one of the sPL progressions in F1. However, I believe normal planche work will result in an elbow planche still, specific work is a waste of time if you do not have the strength basis.

Alex maybe you could help me. My and my friend's left forearm hurts when we end set of planche lean (max lean). Just as we end the set we feel sudden pain at the Ulna. If it comes to our "ending" technique we just drop our legs.

>>1306487
I cannot give a specific reason as to what is happening. It could be anything from tight forearm extensors to a forearm extensor tear.

Point is, if there is pain you are doing something wrong. Rest it out until it disappears and then work in the lean slowly.

About the planche lean in general. Never lean in maximally. You want to stay within the comfort zone because of the strain you are putting on your wrists. It would also be better to do 20-30s seconds hold unless your hands are beyond your hips; then it should be 10-20s. If you max lean it will be highly unlikely to hold the position with that exact lean for the desired amount of time.

>>1308262
It might be tear, we feel it in other movements sometimes (eg pull up). I didnt know about staying in comfort zone so it is likely the reason that fucked up our muscles. Thanks for advice and help

Hey, just started working. I'm still working on getting a freestanding workout, and part of it are my twink mode rear delts (physically hard to keep supporting a straight handstand).
Are there accessories I can do in the mean time or just keep going for it?

Should I keep protracted scapula through whole push up movement or protract only at the top? Is retraction at the bottom bad?

>>1309604
There's some good info on the GB forum.

'Push up: You are starting with scaps somewhat protracted but not fully protracted (Unless you want to, which is a good idea because you integrate full ROM serratus work this way), and straight arms. From here, as you approach the ground your serratus stays active so that your scaps stick to the ribcage as they retract smoothly in accordance with the motion. At the bottom they will be close to fully retracted. The reverse happens as you return to starting position (adding a full protraction at the top would be ideal, as that is true serratus work as long as you are keeping the shoulderblade stuck to the ribcage).'

>>1308345
You should always stay within a comfort zone unless you are actually competing (making it worthwhile to take risks). Planche progressions are just even more important since the wrists and elbows take a huge load.

>>1309988
Can you give a link? I believe the consensus is that you protract maximally at the top and then naturally allow the protraction to fade (to near neutral - it is important to still have active SA) as you descend. Actively retracting is just a waste of energy since your SA most likely will burn out if you perform mastery of 5x15r.

>>1310349
https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/5959-scapula-position-for-basic-and-static-exercises/?page=1

I copy/pasted Mr. Naterman's post, it appeared as the most complete and precise answer I could remember.

Are there addition downsides to retracting?

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>>1244778
I've been doing pyke pushups for about 3 weeks. I always felt a huge rush of blood to the head while doing them, but yesterday I noticed that my eyes get extremely bloodshot red after doing them. Scary-tier.

It goes away after a minute or so standing up.

Should I we worried? I do have a heart condition.

what's the best way to train he muscle-up o a bar? I think I have the strength (>10 high pullups and deep dips) but I just can't get the technique right, any recomended videos?

>>1310651
How good is your shoulder extension? Can you perform russian dips without the kip?

>>1310485
Less stable shoulder position due to SA inactivity. Inability to perform advanced push up and planche variations due to a lack of strength. Less aesthetic position.

>>1310531
From what I know it is all about much slower adaptation for the handful of people experiencing that. I cannot really comment on your heart condition, sorry. Stay low volume while in any inverted position. Perhaps ask over at the GB forum as well.

So it's pretty much consensus now that Foundationion is shit, right?

>>1317928
It is the standardized program that we recommend highest for people new to either strength training, skill training, stretching and mobility.

>>1318307
What about the Reddit threads of people who claimed to have lost overall strength while stalling on basic Foundation progressions?

>>1318732
They just weren't trying hard enough, now give Jew Sommers your money.

>>1318732
No program is perfect. Yes, will might lose some early strength, but what you lose in strength you will gain in mobility, flexibility, better form and body awareness. For the people who have been following foundation for a while and know their body and the programming - they may slightly adjust some of the rep/hold time requirements if they come to a sticky point. But it is not something a raw beginner should try. Chances are they pass themselves with bad form in both the mobility exercises and strength exercises.

>>1321633
The pirated programs are in the OP for free though, despite the fact that there is no videos forums available.

>>1321987
>No program is perfect. Yes, will might lose some early strength, but what you lose in strength you will gain in mobility, flexibility, better form and body awareness. For the people who have been following foundation for a while and know their body and the programming - they may slightly adjust some of the rep/hold time requirements if they come to a sticky point. But it is not something a raw beginner should try. Chances are they pass themselves with bad form in both the mobility exercises and strength exercises.

sounds like BS to be honest

>>1322148
I am open to criticism, but I do not take such blank and uncunstructive statements serious. If you want a debate bring something to the table, if not that is just your unfounded standing, and I will disregard it.

>>1322845
How has your progress been with Foundation?

>>1322847
I am not doing foundation. Bring your personal experiences or factual questions to the table or consider this discussion over. Stop speculating about things you seemingly have no insight into.

>>1323044
This is a surprise, I thought you were doing foundation. So what is your plan if you dont mind saying.

how stupid is my friend being on a scale from 0 to 10 for trying to argue with me that stand-to-stand bridge requires only flexebility and no strength at all?

>>1323360
I do a plan based on a lot of GB exercises for numerous reasons. First of all I currently have a strong case of wrist tenosynovialis so any exercise with wrist support or grip is a no go right now. Second of all I have found some exercises outside of GB that are very useful but cannot be done in tandem with the programs. Third, some of the GB programming is not optimal and is unnecessarily holding me back. This I found out through years of experience with the program, a good anatomical and physiological background, from speaking with GB affiliates and from speaking with highly knowledgeable people in GST.

I recommend GB programming for new people because if they have to follow a standardized program GB's are the best. They are not perfect, but will provide a good platform to move on from once you acquire a certain level of expertise in your own body, anatomy and physiology and the program itself. I would never recommend inexperienced people to try to put a program back together themselves. They most likely end up with injuries, stalled progress or too slow progress. Here, GB is your best starting point.

>>1323372
Mostly flexibility, but also glute, ab and shoulder strength required.

>>1324768
What do you think is the programming problem?

Rep scheme? Progression? Rest times?

>>1324861
The expression "better safe than sorry" fits my opinion on the programming. Rather being too slow than too fast.

In short, for some exercises there are too many reps/hold time, too little depression work in F1, rest time for some F3-F4 elements is way too little. Deload for endurance strength work could use a tweaking.

>>1252070
Hajaja fag

>>1325399
Now, if you profundized a bit about the points you have made it would be extremely helpful for everybody i think.

What is too many reps for a given exercise? Is 15x5reps on pushups too much? I really dont know of bodyweight depression exercises besides l-v sits and manna, dips also train scapular depression somewhat in my opinion.

One aspect i found problematic with the rep scheme approach of GST is the lack of smooth progressions regarding intensity. Take rows or pushups for example: You go from incline to flat to diamond for pushups and incline to flat to elevated feet for rows in 6 months without steps in between. A smoother spproach for variations of a given exercise is to have several blocks at first to do the incline version and take a block off once you have met the reps requirements until you are on the floor and then start elevating your feet. This, of course can be applied to about everything but some exercises for which it would be difficult to do so.

Also, how would someone implement weighted bodyweight exercises, pullups and dips for example, into the program without hurting progression?

>>1325399
I'm the guy that hurt his deltoid last week doing a planche.

Deltoid pain is gone, but I did light movements to keep blood in the area and stay active.


The deltoid pain is gone. However, scapular push-ups seem to agitate the scapular area. (Feels like a light impingement rather than a tear)

Conversely, one-arm chins seem to alleviate the pain.

What does it mean?

More ancillary training?

>>1326860
No, this debate is merely a distraction for beginners coming here looking for a program to follow. If I am not being simplistic they will end up confused and get nowhere. But since you insist I will elaborate. For anyone else reading this I still believe GB's programs are your best bet despite what I say next.

Hinge rows and push ups are generally too high in my opinion. Some people will take it as a breeze but the majority will spend unreasonable time trying to break the mastery. Unreasonable time is in my opinion 4-6+ months with perfect form on the last microcycle. 60s on hollow body holds, arch body holds and rocks follow the same principle. But to my understanding the reason for doing so many reps/hold time is a way to force people to learn good form. Execution may lack if requirements were to be toned down.

So if one should choose to stray from the programming they should ensure that their form is perfect, that they are actually stalled (due to endurance strength requirements) and that they are giving their best effort every single time. They should also make sure that their recovery, diet and sleep patterns are in check.

Pull ups and dips both require depression (lats strength specifically) and is only being introduced late F1. That is in my opinion not optimal.

If you actually owned the courses and had access to the forums you would know that gradually reducing the inclination is being recommend (as a short of incline push ups 1.5). With or without forum access I believe this this should be somewhat obvious. You do not do diamond push ups at all so you might have misread. When people have mastered hinge rows I have never heard of them complaining about the later rows progressions, they run quite smoothly. Have you mastered hinge rows?

Generally, most of the concerns you make have been taken care of on the forums. This is not the private forums, so people either have to think for themselves, buy the programs or do both.

cont

>>1326860
>>1328569
Regarding weighted dips and pull ups GB is not a fan for a number of understandable and less understandable reasons. The primary reason for not doing weighted pull ups are because of the fact that they do not stimulate the connective tissue surrounding the elbow joints as well as their pull up progressions. Thus not preparing the elbows properly for rope climbs. Due to some talks with GB trainer Niels Jorgensen who uses weighted progressions himself (who also said that the Danish national team coach prefers weighted progressions) I have come to the conclusion that this argument is at the very least questionable. With regards to weighted dips the same thing somewhat applies except that for korean dips and russian dips you need serious shoulder extension mobility (both essential for learning muscle ups). However, I believe that it is more efficient to do weighted dips and then perhaps do russian dips/korean dips as skill work or do phases where you either do weighted dips or the special progressions.

In the end foundation is not designed to alter the progressions. You might overdo by simply adding these, or you might hurt yourself by overtraining or by having bad form. There is no simple answer to that question of yours.

I can come up with solid workarounds due to my experience in anatomy, physiology, my own body and GB programming. In the end I believe that people need to "study" their way to make these difficult alterations since it will highly depend on their current level of strength, flexibility and end goals. Therefore I will refrain to help people in that aspect, unless they pay me to take my time to evaluate them. And you can easily progress by not implementing the weighted progressions, it just takes a little bit more time.

>>1328569
Its the same for other plans and routines, after some time you need to make changes based on how well you know your body.

I think making your own routine with other people help or book (overcoming gravity) is best.

It's mostly trial and error. If you incorporate new excercise you dont know if it works for you, you need to try. Why foundation and eg Reddit routine is good is because they give you example and guide hand, you dont need to try or sth like that but it's not something to rely on forever

Sorry for grammar

>>1328104
It is a good idea to do light dynamic movements to maintain a steady blood flow to increase recovery. Things like band work or light dumbbell works do wonders.

Stay away from any exercise that causes irritation. If it is an impingement, you will need to do light unloaded stretching for the movement pattern and to strengthen the antagonists. Impingement usually comes from a muscular imbalance too, so you will need rowing exercises. Specifically, the hinge rows in foundation one is a problem solver to balance out the posterior muscle chain. I had a muscular imbalance as well due to the little retraction/extension work that I was doing.

However, it might also not be an impingement. Have a physical therapist check on you. If that is not possible strengthen the posterior chain and rotator cuff. Stay away from heavy duty planche work for a long time until your problem is solved.

>>1328616
It has to be the posterior chain because I had to take out deadlifts/rows due to leg injury. I said I'd add them back after I got the planche.


Doesn't the one arm chin up count as a rowing, or is it not coming from the right direction?

>>1328629
OAC is indeed posterior chain work, however not much rotator cuff. I think for a balancing exercise OAC is awful due to the low-rep nature and biceps isolation. You want improved movement patterns, blood flow and hypertrophy first and foremost. Cool strength training comes later. Hinge rows is a good start, they look terribly easy, sucks to do but will make you feel good.

>>1328606
I agree with your first paragraph up to the point where you REALLY know what is best for your body 90% of all the people who think they have it all figured out fails to beat standardized GB programming.

Trial and error in a controlled environment. There is no reason to reinvent strength training; some people will dabble and get half way through and never really make it, some people will take years to finally realize what they are supposed to do.

I believe Ryan Hurst from GMB once said that you are your own worst coach. You are driven by your ego which has needs that will impact your training in some way. Whether that is doing 100 push ups a day trying to achieve a planche or that it is believing you have good body shape in a planche despite a lack of protraction. The ego will do anything to trick you to unwillingly accept status quo and do what you like instead of what needs to be done.

I disagree about the need for testing an exercise to validate its usefulness on an individual. If a knowledgeable person is telling you it is a bad exercise for you they are usually right and you should not do it in your serious training. However, once the serious training is complete you can PLAY with different exercises if they are held low volume and low intensity.

I have problems with the reddit routine but that is a completely different story.

>>1328721
Reddit routine was just an example, i dont like it too.

Testing excercise isnt everything, as i said i think help from other people, especially those who know a lot is very important

>>1328721
Could I do lever pull-ups instead of hinges?

I understand this is body weight general but do you guys compete in gymnastics?

A girl I like is into gymnastics but personally I'm into powerlifting.

I just don't want to feel self centred and want to make her the centre of discussion so I was wondering what I should know to be able to talk to her about gymnastics?

Should I say I'm a highbar specialist and if she catches me out I'll pretend I meant high bar squats?

>>1329172
No, the point of hinge rows is to strengthen external rotation (rotator cuff) and prime movers for pulling exercises. I know it seems like a boring exercise but to be successful you must do what needs to be done; not what you would like to do.

>>1331396
Not competing in gymnastics, but I have had education in front/back flips, front/back handsprings, cartwheels, round offs, handstand rolls, forward/backwards roll and dive kip.

I believe that catching a girl's attention is all about staying true to yourself while showing respectful yet still pure interest in the person that she is. If she is into gymnastics you may talk about how awe-inspiring some of the routines they do are, how important the technical details are, how much strength and flexibility one would need for a certain exercise etc. But never get into deep water and say meaningless things. Talk about what she likes and what you like. Do not lie, she will eventually figure it out. Either she will like you or not, the only thing you can do is to improve your odds by showing your qualities like being witty, humorous, have a field of expertise, self confidence etc.