Boxing General 3: I can't breathe edition

>>1175630
How do I actually get into boxing? I have the bags and I can do the punches. Should I go to the gym and start working out there?

>>1175712
Have you been taught before or did you look in manuals/online/on videos and try and mimic what you saw? It's generally recommended that you don't try and learn without a coach of some kind, as you're going to have some major issues with your form whether you realize it or not. Boxing is a game of inches, so every little movement and mis-movement counts.

Find a gym in your area. If you're in the United States, USA Boxing is the national sanctioning body for Amateur boxing and they keep an updated registry of certified coaches and their gyms, so you should start there. Beyond that, typing "boxing gym *city/zipcode*" will probably find you any schools in the area.

>>1175727
>Have you been taught before or did you look in manuals/online/on videos and try and mimic what you saw?
I got the basic fundamentals from my father. I wanna go to the gym but I'm too self-conscious to go because I'm a skinny-fat 5'11" with a little bit of muscle definition. Man /fit/ fucked up my basic physiology of gym life.

>>1175758
Everyone starts somewhere dude. Two of the best boxers at our gym started as fatass 11 year olds who worked their asses off. Guys at the gym will be too worried about their own work to care what you look like. If you keep coming back and working hard, you'll gain their respect. If you come in thinking you know something and have a heads up on other newbies, then get pissy when no one acknowledges it, then they'll ignore you until you eventually give up. That's how it works.

I know going to a new gym is nerve-wracking, but it'll be worth it once you start improving. Go in there with the knowledge that you really don't know much, if anything, at all. Be a sponge who listens more than he talks and does what his coaches tell him. You'll get there.

>>1175712
YouTube is still better than nothing.

>>1175831
YouTube has actually had quite the increase in quality of instructional videos over the years.

Some YouTube videos could very well exceed the quality of instruction and information you'll receive in beginner martial arts classes and or free trials at gyms.

>>1175630
Based namefag

>>1175831
>>1175834
It's true that Youtube has pretty good video but imo it's more catered to beginners that already go to a gym and can train under supervision. And boxing is more than just punching things
>still better than nothing
Nothing is better than bad habits ,and boy how easy it is to get them when training alone.

>>1175758
>I'm a skinny-fat 5'11" with a little bit of muscle definition
So you're like everyone that stepped into a boxing gym. The only thing is that you'll say "why didn't I start earlier" in 2 month

>>1175834
The information age my man. Still need a third party with experience judging and correcting you in person for proper results, but damn if it ain't nice.

>>1175914
>Nothing is better than bad habits
You don't do too well when you bring nothing to sparring or a fight.
Bad habits can always be fixed. And not everything is a bad habit, so it's actually misleading. There's a foundation, which has some bad habits. Even if you miss some things, you have a foundation to work off of, where the bad habits can be fixed.

>>1175926
Ask yourself just what about the experience and third party is used to create proper results?

The answer is: Being able to look at form, knowing what good form looks like, and being able to tell the person IF the form is wrong.

The third party and experience is really just a body of knowledge and a motion capture camera with memory.

It's 2016, you don't need humans to capture images for us, and we don't need human memory to learn about the images.

Gym instructors could turn on a video camera, and say exactly what they're going to say to their students about throwing a punch or a kick.
They can point out every single little detail, the details that would be corrected in a live session, using charts, slow motion capture, and detailed images.
They just don't want to do that because people won't have to pay for their beginner lessons anymore.
Other gyms don't want other people to do this because people won't have to pay for their beginner lessons anymore.

Some people actually believe information, knowledge of martial arts, should be free, so they post instructional videos, to teach people.

Other places, they just post instructional videos, but so they can self advertise and get you to get the knowledge they're leaving out by joining their gym or buying their DVD, because people are greedy mother fuckers.

>>1175926
>>1176032

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_3RN86SJGk
I'm not going to go too indepth with how to throw these kicks; I can't give away too much information, I'll be upsetting Muay Thai schools out there. Right?

>>1175926
See >>1176032

For old school style fans and people that want to learn about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0PDk1EcXc0

>>1175926
>>1176032
>so they post instructional videos, to teach people.
>>1176036
Some people are kind hearted and generous, or not shit human beings, but they're just not that smart.
They just accidently leave out some information, don't explain things well enough, or are just wrong.
They're not educators, even though information of psychology and the application of psychology in teaching is completely free online, if you can figure out where to look.
Not to mention how these things are provided in public schools for free, and there are free university lectures online, because people believe in free education.

Wrestling and Judo is completely free in middle schools and high schools all over America.

These people are teaching schools of children martial arts for free.
They're not making you pay membership fees, they're not pressuring you to buy their DVDs.

What's fucked up is people who make DVDs don't even make them well.
You'd still have to go to their bullshit gym to get their bullshit instruction they could've easily put on the fucking DVD.
Some of these fuckers do that shit intentionally.

Look at OP. >>1175630

He's helping people with Boxing for free.

He shares his knowledge of technique for free.
He shares his knowledge of gear for free.
He shares is knowledge of theory for free.
He shares his knowledge of fitness for free.
He shares is knowledge of exercise routines for free.
He might be making instructional Boxing YouTube videos for free one day.

OP is a cool guy.

>>1176091
>He's been boxing for a year.
Can't believe his sharing his whole knowledge for free.

>>1176096
>one Anon says he's good
>another anon implies he's not good
That's 4chan.
You must be new here. Welcome to 4chan, faggot. You're always absolutely right while everybody else is always completely wrong.

>>1176032
>They can point out every single little detail, the details that would be corrected in a live session, using charts, slow motion capture, and detailed images.
>They just don't want to do that because people won't have to pay for their beginner lessons anymore.

Actually that's not true. It's because no matter how specific you are, unless you are there to correct the issues as they happen, you'll never be able to fully correct someone's bad habits that they can form.

Perfect example: The gym I go to is a USA Boxing Gym. It's entirely non profit. The dues are rated solely to pay for the rent of the space and POSSIBLY to buy new equipment as the old equipment finally wears down. The coach has been operating at a loss for months and has seriously considered closing it down, but doesn't because he knows how important it is to the guys and kids who go there. We have two great coaches there (the owner and one other coach) who both have an incredible mind for the technical aspect of the sport and do a tremendous job explaining how to do things. I've put a lot of money into buying the gym new equipment because most of the stuff we have is over a decade old and on its last legs.

Despite that, people STILL need constant correction over weeks of monitoring before their form is considered "acceptable" enough to spar.

So while I agree that there are definitely shyster-y assholes out there that are trying to make a quick buck, I'm also aware of the importance of having an experienced eye constantly checking on someone's progress.

>>Not to mention how these things are provided in public schools for free, and there are free university lectures online, because people believe in free education.

Yeah, I'm a teacher and I'm going to have to stop you there. It IS provided for "free" because tax-payers' money pays the teachers and staff. Additionally, the instructors are there to monitor progress and ensure that students are displaying some degree of competence with the material. Don't get me wrong, there are quite a few people who could go out and read the textbooks/source material and figure it out themselves, but those same people would almost definitely only look at subjects that interest them rather than obtaining a full general curriculum knowledge that is typically needed.

I'm actually a perfect example of why you need coaches to actively observe and correct form. I'm not a physical specimen. I'm a dude who spent most of his youth doing schoolwork and playing videogames. I wrestled in middle school and sucked, horribly. I didn't show any degree of athleticism until college when I roomed with some guys who liked sports and working out. The one thing my coach says I have is a desire to learn and apply, so I study voraciously and come in with no preconceptions on what's "right" and "wrong." Despite that, I still need constant tweaking of my form. I was practicing a slipping-uppercut drill in the corner that, based on what I understood, was correct. My coach came over and explained that I needed to make it more controlled and compact because while I was fast and showing power, I was starting to drift and swing myself out of position. Something I would never have caught until another fighter caught me exposed and I had time to study the tape (if there was any).

>>1176096
You'd be surprised how much you pick up from training 5 days a week for a year, constantly listening to your coaches, and studying film like it's your job.

>>1176160
>It IS provided for "free" because tax-payers' money pays the teachers and staff.
Teachers get paid jack compared to their amount of education (depending on the teacher). Most of these people are doing what they do because they believe in education, and the pay is secondary.
The government believes in education, which is why tax payer bucks get put into education. Education benefits individuals, as well as society as a whole.

>there to monitor
They're there to make learning easier. Children's brains are under developed, impulsive, and self indulgent.
Teachers are there to make sure they do the work, and the work is what they get their knowledge and understanding out of.
The children read, they get knowledge. They take quizzes, they get knowledge. They listen to lectures, they get knowledge. They take bigger tests, they get knowledge.
The monitoring is in place because as much as we know about and use advanced teaching and learning techniques now, we don't have data, and we could be doing it better.

>based on what I understood, was correct
You didn't have a good enough body of knowledge to work with, what was right, and you didn't compare it to what you were doing, what was wrong.

All he did was record the video of you in his memory, looked at it, compared it to the video of what's right in his memory, and then gave the results.

He had knowledge of what was right.
He saw what you did.
He compared it.
He gave the difference.

You don't need a human for that.

>>1176154
>Actually that's not true. It's because no matter how specific you are, unless you are there to correct the issues as they happen, you'll never be able to fully correct someone's bad habits that they can form.
That is factually incorrect.

>>1176154
>my personal biased example
We need large scale, objective, scientific studies for your few personal experiences to mean anything.

>>1176154
>there to correct the issues as they happen
I guarantee you the corrections happened AFTER the thing that was done "wrong" happened.

>>1176160
>Yeah, I'm a teacher
And you're what, 27 now? You went to college straight out of high school, right? You were around 18 years old? You spent what, 4 years in college? If so, you stopped your education in 2011. The most up to date education you got, unless you teach at a school that requires their teachers to use up to date methods, even if they're not educated on them, is 5 years out of date. You could very well have had your education based on even more outdated knowledge.

>>1176160
>Yeah, I'm a teacher
And you're not a psychologist or neurobiologist.

>>1176306
>>1176302
>>1176259
>>1176251
>>1176245
Why don't you spread out your posts like this ? It's /asp/. Old generals had like 4 different people participating a day.

Have you ever stepped a foot into a boxing gym ? I cannot believe anyone that seriously did boxing for more than a few month think something like that.

In case anyone didn't notice, >>1176330 is obvious bait.

>>1176245
>>1176251
>>1176259
>>1176302
>>1176306
I don't know why you're bothering to post this way, but it's really annoying and wastes posts. These things stop bumping fairly soon and I'd like for it to last as long as possible.

Firstly, the best proof of what I say is that it's the predominant method of teaching and has been for generations despite many attempts at alternate methods. Educational pedagogy has for years tried to figure out the best way to teach students how to learn and the best way always, ALWAYS comes back with a more experienced individual (ie, a teacher) being necessary to some degree.

Secondly, >>1176259 this doesn't disprove my point. The point is the correction occurred because I was being monitored by a coach and would not have occurred unless I was physically exposed in a spar or a fight and I had a chance to go back and look at it myself. He saved me pain and a possible concussion by being there to help me adjust.

Thirdly, >>1176302 I never stopped my education. Part of being a teacher includes continuing to stay up to date on current educational pedagogy and methodology. Everything I have read, studied, and experienced points to the fact that an instructor is needed to constantly monitor pupils to check for student growth.

Additionally, we're talking about learning physical motions that, unless taught properly, can lead to serious injury in competition. The fullest precautions should be taken to ensure that people are learning these correctly by having experienced teachers there to monitor progress. You yourself said that middle and highschools teach sports for free such as Judo, Wrestling, Football, etc. which means you'll acknowledge that they don't just sit the kids down with a bunch of coaching or youtube videos and let them train themselves. They are actively involved in making sure the environment is safe and their technique is correct.

>>1176056
I like how we've been seeing more breakdown videos on /asp/ lately.

>>1176387
>necessary
No.

>helpful
Yes.

>to some degree
Isn't that what's being argued?

>would not have occurred
The point is appart from your experience. The process of correction done by a 3rd party can be done without the 3rd party.

>points to the fact that an instructor is needed
Correlation is not causation.
I'm guessing you're telling me you're a guy that reads. You're not a scientist, and you're obviously not using the superior methods of gaining truth, the scientific methods.
Also, it's not a part of being a teacher, but some teachers do it, and it should be part of being a teacher.

>the fullest precautions should be taken
That's based on personal values and opinion.

If you're still OP, it really just looks like you're grasping at straws here, don't know how to objectively argue and use logic and reasoning, or you're just shitposting.

>>1176411
>>Be me
>>Be trained as an educator
>>Be trained in educational pedagogy
>>Be part of a system that is the production of systemic studies of educational pedagogy
>>Be a certified coach
>>Be part of another system that is the production of systemic studies of educational pedagogy
>>Be told by some random anon that I'm wrong without any proof other than theorizing.

Ok. I'm done with this conversation.

When you slip punches do you literally just lean your torso to one side? That's what it looks like when I watch Tyson, is there leg movement I'm missing or is it fine to just bend the torso, and for ducks do I just bend at the waist like how Joe Fraizer does?

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>>1176481
>I'm done with this conversation
If you say so.

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>>1176502

The pic related is from this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0PDk1EcXc0

>>1176502
My coach always say to lead with your shoulder. You rotate the opposite foot (right for a jab evade ,left for a cross)You'll be in a better position to get back in stance ,start a slip on the other side ,or spring back for a counter punch. It should be your feet ,supports ,whatever is the english term ,that rotates your whole body.
Kinda how you evade hooks (that's ducks ,right ?)with your hips instead of bending forward.
At least that's what I've been taught. Feel free to discuss that

>>1176502
There's no right or wrong way to slip, Anon.
There are just different ways, some more similar to some than others.
They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

>>1176502

Slipping is a tricky beast. The textbook slipping motion involves twisting your waist to turn your shoulders and head. However, most boxers obviously don't move that much in an actual match.

Tyson was an athletic freak who was taught a very specific style of boxing by D'Amato. He was not, however, standard or textbook.

>>1176523
>posts an image instead of naming a single fallacy
This guy has been giving good advice and has and will post more video. What are you bringing to the argument other than "correlation doesn't mean causation!"?

>>1176562
It helps people grow in their abilities if they find their fallacies on their own.
OP and I aren't so different, we're both trying to help each other and our community grow for the better.
I'm not trying to attack his character and self esteem if you're implying that.

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>>1176562
He will eventually go away once you stop responding to him. Just ignore him. Discussion only leads so far.
Even if he responds to your posts ,don't respond back

>>1176562
>What are you bringing to the argument other than
If you're not shitposting, I suggest you read the posts again, and analyze them from a non biased perspective.

>>1176502
Decided to go ahead and make a video showing what I meant.

I used windows movie maker to make it and I'm not particularly familiar with the program, so my editing tools are booty.

My form is pretty bad here. I've been sick and I over-exaggerated the movement quite a bit since I was focusing on showing the leg movement and how it eliminated the need to bend at the waist and sacrifice punching form.

I used an "O" to indicate the original target and how the slipping affects where your head is. I really don't need to bend my waist to get the head out of the way and it sets me up to throw other shots.

https://youtu.be/PH7xW91LtjQ

>>1176657
>Someone willingly showing his face to give advice
You're golden m8.
Now like you said ,isn't your stance a bit too narrow ? Doesn't change much for hooks evades but for slips you're getting out on jabs so you'll be a bit far and you need travel 50 miles for crosses.
Anyway besides that I like the exaggerated foot work. It actually really helps to do that during drills to get the movement in your system and muscle memory. And indeed ,like you've shown ,the back don't need to move that much

>>1176679
>>Now like you said ,isn't your stance a bit too narrow ? Doesn't change much for hooks evades but for slips you're getting out on jabs so you'll be a bit far and you need travel 50 miles for crosses.

Do you mean am I standing too sideways?

There's different schools on that.

I've been taught to keep my lead shoulder on my opponent and provide him as little opportunity as possible to hit the body. The more square my stance is, the bigger a target my torso is. I've been taught that if I can't hit the head, go for the chest/body to expose the head. With that in mind I have a fairly narrow stance.

I'm actually a pretty bad fighter with a bad sense of range, but my general style involves leading with the long jab, slipping inside, attacking the body with hooks, and eventually working back upstairs.

My stance gives my short range just a bit more length with the jab and presents a narrower target for the opponent to hit. I had more to the video that added some shadowboxing into it using combinations I use to set that scenario up, but I started pulling punches short and didn't feel like keeping it in the video.

The straight is pretty far away and does require a lot of twisting, but the general rule of thumb at my skill level is that if I can't throw the straight at an "acceptable" range, then don't throw it at all. I shouldn't have to overextend for it at all (which would leave me stretched out and vulnerable) and it should come as a followup to either a short jab or after a left hook.

Until I get better/more sure of my range and instincts, I'm sticking with what I know keeps me safe. I can't go back to work with a concussion because I let my defense get sloppy.

>>1176690
Hum that's interesting. My coach never put that much emphasis on the square thing of the stance. Instead he teaches us more about slipping ,so having a wide stance helps you with that.
For BG he does MT too so there must be an influence on that (he is primarily boxing but participate in the club MT section).
Despite that the lead hand is still 80% of the work so that surprised me how sideway you were because that seems to me how hard it would be to actually use the back hand.
But I see your point. I'll may do a video tomorrow to picture the differences (since it's 1 am where I live).
I also train savate ,so may be there is a connection from a strict ,more defense oriented boxing stance like you have ,and a more aggressive ,kickboxing stance like my coach and history in savate teach.

>>1176713
From what I know the danger of kicking COMPLETELY changes the game and makes a square stance is very viable due to it.

I'm never going to claim that my way is better or the way my school teaches it is better. There are a million ways to the top of the mountain.

My coaches' number one concern is safety and so he teaches a fairly defensive style. Now he's also HUGE on angles of attack and defense and is an avid follower of guys like Andre Ward (who he styles himself after) and trainers like Teddy Atlas (who favors activity and volume), so that would explain why my base stance is like that.

He did spend a night explaining to us the difference between a 90 degree and 45 degree stance, though. The 45 relies on the lead foot facing the opponent and allows the boxer to square up more, allowing the back hand to get more activity because it's closer. However it also shortens the distance of your punches and makes you easier to hit. The 90 gives you more range and better defense, but sacrifices your ability to use your power. If you want I could make another video showing it more clearly on the heavy bag.

>>1176733
>From what I know the danger of kicking COMPLETELY changes the game
Yeah that may be where my biais come from. Training in savate ,then training with a boxing coach that cross train in MT may not be the usual ,classical and true boxing stance (as it would be taught by pure boxers). And boxing isn't that big in France (at least not as much as in the US)
However what you said majkes a lot of sense and that really confirm my opinion that boxing is way more defensive than whatever kick boxing derivate would be.

However ,sorry I'm not an english native have a hard time with technical term.
90° is you stance ,then one that's your taught ,right ?
Then yeah it makes sense ,given the history of boxing ,where not that long ago gloves were lighter than they are ,and thus you might not want to take as much punches as you would atm.
I'll make a video tomorrow of my stance ,and the slips and hook evades (ducks ? Please confirm) showing the difference. Maybe they won't be as obvious as they seem seeing your video and I'm overthinking it so take me with a grain of salt

>>1176765
Ducking is the familiar term.

I can't wait for the vids!

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>>1176783
>I can't wait for the vids!
That's a lot of pressure.

On that subject do you have resources about boxers and their training methodology ? I focused a bit on MMA and different shades of kick boxing these last month so it'll be great to get back to more boxing focused books.
I mean I know the hooks are different from a kick boxers than from a boxers for kicking reason but i'd like to cross some information from what I have.

>>1176789
>>That's a lot of pressure.

No pressure. We're all trying to get better and see how others hone their craft.

>>On that subject do you have resources about boxers and their training methodology ?

Most of the literature I've seen has been biographies and the like. The only real training book I've found locally is "Fighting Fit: Boxing Workouts, Techniques, and Sparring" by Doug Werner and Alan Lachica. It's a really good book for starting out. Otherwise most of the stuff I've found that's useful is in the pastebin.

>>1176818
>We're all trying to get better and see how others hone their craft.
Yeah. Sometime I wish real life was as easy as the Internet is ,cuz sparring with random stranger would be much easier. You learn a great deal about someone by how they spar. (Like I do. I'm 30kg heavier than my height would allow ,180cm ,5'11 and 220lbs) so I tend to be over aggressive because I can shrug off most punches.
Except my coach. Fuck him. He is 170cm (5'9) and as heavy as I am ,except much leaner (And while fat ,not that fat) and so fucking quick it's fucking awful getting body hooked every time you jab

Will look into the book you advised. I'll try to look for kickboxing derivate boxing part that may interest you. (as of how MT ,savate or others sports see the punching aspect of their sport) if you're interested

>>1176733
Figured I'd go ahead and make a few more videos illustrating the stances and how the slips set up combos.

My mistake, the 45 is more defensive while the 90 is more offensive.

Stances
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_zoPmXVKU4

Slipping to set up shots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRjxxkrKk7o

>>1176857
Woah thanks man that's really useful to make your point.
From what I've seen ,you have a stong lead hand ,but a long defensive slip. Does your coach per chance taught you to use your jab either defensively (to set up other punches ,cross ,left hooks) or to manage distance ? that would definitely go with what you told me earlier ,with how your coach see defense as über important.
I usually train a more offensive ,based on slips ,with strong jabs ,that may be slower (since they have less reach ,so may need a step in) but stiffer. and more percussive.
Anyway very interesting stuff for me. I knew that stances vary but seeing pro fights it never seemed that obvious to me
I'll go to sleep and get a video tomorrow against a poor pillar in my apartment lot pillar that didn't ask anything. On sunday I may have access to a punching bag to show more bag work.
Anyway that was very interesting. I'll catch you at some point

>>1176897
>From what I've seen ,you have a stong lead hand ,but a long defensive slip.

That's because I'm an ass who still has a lot of junk to remove from his form. It should be far, far more compact since I'm only really trying to get underneath his lead hand.

The best part to me is that I have some kind of nerve damage in my left shoulder that severely weakens my jab and everything else I throw with my left. So almost all of that power/pop is from leg explosion. Once I finally figure out what's wrong with my shoulder, I'm going to punch holes through people at light speed.

>>Does your coach per chance taught you to use your jab either defensively (to set up other punches ,cross ,left hooks) or to manage distance ? that would definitely go with what you told me earlier ,with how your coach see defense as über important.

Both, he also emphasizes the need for a stiff one every now and then to disrupt the rhythm the opponent thinks he's building by trying to time the weak ones I would typically throw.

>>1176679
>>Someone willingly showing his face
You need a face, as well as a name to give up your anonymity.
It's not just any name, either, it's the name that's associated with [insert words here] that really counts.

>>1176657
>using Windows Movie Maker
You could add the O annotation, and then process the video into a movie.
After that, you could run the movie through movie maker again, and add another annotation for your comments.
The O would remain and you'd be able to add more annotations because the O annotation would already be processed into the new raw video material.

>>1176657
For a second I though you looked like my tkd friend. Arr rook same I guess.

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>>1176569
>It helps people grow in their abilities if they find their fallacies on their own.
Reminds me of when my cousin was teaching me how to Box.

At some point, he put me in front of a heavy bag and told me to throw combinations.
I had some trouble with that at first.

Same thing when I was learning how to play the guitar.
I could learn and play songs just fine.
So my instructor at the time had me learn a scale, and told me to improvise.
I had some trouble at first.
Some of my earliest attempts was just me playing up and down the scale, kind of comical now that I think about it.
My lessons would've ended before I got very much better.
I don't improvise too badly with a variety of scales now.

Posting my bag work to contribute to our OC, and hoping other anons will contribute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6gkYbJtIQk

>>1176679
>narrow
>>1176713
>wide
Best of both worlds, niggas; I use both.

this thread is fucking out of control


>>1177713
are you attending a boxing gym?

>>1177927
are you attending a kickboxing gym? what methods do you speak off man? how was your day btw

>>1177943
>are you attending a kickboxing gym?
As I've provided information about myself on /asp/ in the past, I'll answer with I may or may not be a student at a Kickboxing and or MMA gym.
I will say, however, I occasionally obtain instruction from a freestyle fighter trained in Japanese martial arts and Chinese martial arts.

>what methods do you speak of
Some of the relatively unorthodox things I do include switching stances, using stances resembling various styles, using varying levels of how bladed and or squared my stances are, use a lot of fakes and feints, incorporate turning and spinning techniques to some degree (though, I don't consider it to be excessive), sparsely use knife hand strikes, and use blocks and or parries resembling that or Karate and or Kung-Fu.

My day was semi-productive, and a little self indulgent.

>>1177943
To better answer your question about my day:
I believe I should've been more productive, and feel bad about myself because of that. I felt good about giving myself a break from responsibility and self improvement by being a little self indulgent, but I feel bad about doing it relatively excessively relative to how productively I spent my day. I also believe I should've focused my productivity more on what I value more highly, rather than spread it out on relatively numerous things like I did, and feel bad about that, but also am a little relieved I spent time on things I've been neglecting focus on in turn for other things that I prioritize, as to not have let them fall too far behind, but it's still in sacrifice of spending time on things I value more highly.

By the way, how would you describe yourself as a martial artist? Also, what's you're experience with Boxing?

>>1175630
I'm finally training again after 6 months in a new town with no gym, but a new one opened up near my house. I've been back at it for 6 weeks now, but tomorrow is my first day doing contact sparring again. Wish me luck, guys.

>tfw short range dwarf overpowering a tall opponent
This is the second time this happens and this makes me feel a bit more confident. That's all I had to boast about.

>>1177713
Couple of things:

Are those these gloves?http://www.everlast.com/boxing/gloves/classic-training-gloves

If so for the love of god please stop using them and buy something better. Those are awful and do a poor job protecting your hands and wrists.

You bend at the waist a lot and jump for your punches, both of which make you sacrifice speed/power since your body isn't aligned. It also looks like you push your punches a lot rather than snapping them, which makes you feel like you gave strong punches, but they make you lose a lot of time to cover back up and waste energy.

Can you tie that bag higher on the stand? Having it so low is going to get you into the habit of punching low, which will only exacerbate in sparring.

Your stance is really wide, from a boxing standpoint that would seriously affect mobility.

>>1178949
Why would you post bagwork to critique then try and refute every criticism? He's not trying to insult you, he's trying to improve you

>>1178962
>Why would you post bagwork to critique then try and refute every criticism?
I didn't post the bagwork for critique.
I posted to contribute original content to this board and thread, in which could be used to encourage discussion of various kinds for various anons, as well as to encourage other anons to do the same.

Also, there's loads of misinterpretation possible everywhere with everything.
Who would I be if I let an anon remain delusional about something I have clearer knowledge on?
My bag work ,for example.

>>1178313
>Those are awful and do a poor job protecting your hands and wrists.
I use them because the were free, and I prefer lighter protection because of all the bare knuckle I used to do.

I might start using MMA gloves for my bag work.

>push your punches
I was trying to go light with the more powerful punches because of how the stand moves around so much.
I also went light on everything later on in the video, if you didn't notice.

>bend at the waist
>jump for punches
>sacrifice speed and power
How so?

>tie the bag higher
I'm mostly not a Boxer, and train kicks on the bag, specifically, low kicks are included.
I'm keeping the bag at that height because of that.
The legs and body are my main targets.
I also generally keep head kicks to a minimum.

>stance is really wide
I'm most comfortable with a wider stance, like all things, it has its advantages and disadvantages.

Maybe my other post will give some context.
I mostly kept things light in the other videos, as well.

>>1177572
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK1VWe1C8FA
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUgLU46ZqP4
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlRfGjgI41w

>>1177943
Another thing I do is mostly stay on the outside while fighting. That may or may not be unorthodox. However, the way I blend strategies and tactics may be considered unorthodox.

File: Wiki - Boxing - Styles.jpg (1MB, 1778x2146px) Image search: [Google]

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Let's talk about each other's fighting styles, with an emphasis on Boxing, since this is Boxing general.

>>1179085

So, I've been on and off with martial arts from a young age. Some of my earliest memories include hitting a martial arts dummy with FMA sticks, nunchucks, and having a hard time because it was so tall.

In elementary school, I rarely sparred. Because of the lack of skill and underdeveloped brain, if I recall correctly, my fighting style resembled that of a brawler.
Towards middle school, my fighting style resembled that of an in fighter.
From then to early high school, there was a mix of in fighting and out fighting.
At some point in high school, I placed a little more of an emphasis on countering.

From mid high school to now, I've developed a mostly out fighting style, with countering thrown in, a little bit of in fighting thrown in, and developed my strategies and tactics more.
Now, I'm working on incorporating more fighting styles into my style, to make me less predictable. But I believe I'll stay keep incorporating out fighting and countering into my stile more than others.

With striking, including Boxing, I'm very fond of parrying as it's known to some in Boxing.
The parrying resembling what's commonly referred to as blocks in Karate and Kung-Fu.

I've neglected punching in Southpaw, so I'm not as good at it in Southpaw, and don't do it too often. I'm working on developing my Southpaw punching more.
In striking games that include punches and kicks, I'd punch in Southpaw rarely, and rely mostly on my front arm straight punch while in Southpaw, favouring kicks.

I learned how to Box in Orthodox, so when Boxing, I've tended to stay on Orthodox a lot.

I also have a habit of standing pretty bladed while in southpaw because of how I learned to kick in my early years.
Great accessibility for the utilization of the lead leg front kick, with little compensation from rear leg kicks.
I've found punching from that stance to be a bit awkward, though. I may or may not try to fix that in a pure Boxing setting.
(1/2)

>>1179159
(2/2)
I recall an Anon in a previous Boxing general stating that rear punches from a more bladed stances generates more power. In theory, that's true. The more distance something has to move, the more it accelerates, the more power. However, another anon has stated that linear movement and rotational movement could be compensating each other. One could be sacrificing linear energy for rotational energy. In theory, it's possible it's compromising power.
Personally, I'm too ignorant on the topic to come to any conclusion I believe to be the truth, or close enough to the truth.

>>1179164
>Personally, I'm too ignorant on the topic to come to any conclusion I believe to be the truth, or close enough to the truth.
Good man.
Part of finding the truth is accepting that you don't know, and accepting that you could be wrong.

>>1179004
>>I'm mostly not a Boxer

That's pretty evident and shows in your style and tendencies.

I didn't mean to come off as uppity, if that's what it seems like. I had to go open the gym so I had to keep it short and to the point.

Your style works for you, that's awesome and thanks for sharing. The more perspectives we get, the better off we are and the more we can analyze our own styles and tendencies. However, from a purely boxing standpoint and training as though you were trying to become a boxer, a lot of what you're doing would need to be corrected.

I finally got an updated video of me doin bagwork. I'll post it when I get some time (in the next hour or so). Additionally, if I can get a friend to visit I'll post a breakdown of why the tendencies I PERCEIVED to be bad would be bad for boxing and why the suggestions I made would make it better for boxing.

I don't want to come off like a jerk with the emphasis on the boxing part, but I don't want you to think I'm saying "you're wrong, I'm right, the is the only way to do things." I'll be giving suggestions from a boxer's point of view that you can either take or leave depending on if it helps you or not!

>>1179085
I'm being trained as a boxer-puncher with a stupid tendency towards swarmer.

>>1179597
>>1179603

Here's the bagwork video.

https://youtu.be/LhyfN1KpQbE

I'll get back to you about the other part.

>>1179603
>I'm being trained as a boxer-puncher
Nice.

>with a stupid tendency towards swarmer
Is that your personal touch?

btw, does your coach have a style? Does he teach people differently, does he teach different styles?

>>1179842
>>Is that your personal touch?

Kind of. I'm naturally shorter-limbed and not particularly athletic, so my immediate thought is almost always to get underneath the jab and attack the torso to lower the guard and eventually expose the chin. It's a tendency I need to move away from so I can continue to fight smart.

My coach is very heavily influenced by Andre Ward and primarily works as a counter puncher. He's proficient enough to teach pretty much any style and has done so already. He moved me to a Boxer Puncher is trying to make a friend of mine a Swarmer.

>>1179927
Ok, got the two videos

Pushing vs Snapping punches
https://youtu.be/dOrkhGEbCK0

The other stuff
https://youtu.be/ioZTz6CfJig

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For people that are interested in old school principles here are some videos with interesting breakdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E2BEE8Ce70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w58KO09kfWs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81non05aKX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q35AZXML9Cc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXjqO_lo4ak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7Hi3tnGW7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0UTVoim88

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0wl2sZPZ2g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKVsMCUiiBA

Hope you enjoy it :)

>>1179597

Glad we cleared that up. I'll take a look at the videos some time.

Wooo new general!

Also, just a thought, but given the sheer age of pugilism, shouldn't this be in the sports section?

>>1180426
It kind of does, but it also falls in the martial arts aspect. Especially since we're talking about learning and practicing the art here rather than just watching it.

>>1180429

Fair enough.

Also, I'm having a bit of difficulty with stance, when people say your feet should be about shoulder width apart, do they mean that the space in between your feet should be as wide as your shoulders, or does this shoulder width include the width of your feet? I'm not sure if I explained that too well.

>>1180522
Shoulder width means your feet are directly under your shoulders.

>>1180522
Here's a general way to know if your boxing stance is wide/narrow enough:

Squat. If you can comfortably squat and keep your balance when someone gives you a gentle push, you're good.

>>1180027
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6DP6ZMo5i8

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>>1180027
>https://youtu.be/dOrkhGEbCK0

>>1180969
expertboxing and jtvan(?) are two excellent channels worth checking out. They are really good a breaking down concepts and movements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POPCy7OyjFI

Another one worth checking out is LeeWylie1. He's a boxing historian with a real amazing understanding of the sweet science.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaUrm26VQh8

>>1175758
Holy shit dude. You're an idiot. I never got why people think that other people give a shit about how you look. 100% of people just go in to workout not to stare at a fat fuck. No offense>>1175758

>>1175630
When you wrap your hands do you just use that set of hand wraps and no different piece of padding? Or do you perhaps make folds with the hand wraps and use that as padding?

>>1175630
Looking to go to a gym tomorrow. How quickly can I get into professional/amateur boxing? I'm getting older but I think I still can get in a few matches before my body gives out on me.

>>1182008
You should start fighting in the amateurs as soon as your coach thinks you're ready. As for professional fighting you should REALLY start after you have a TON of amateur experience.

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Guys what kind of shoes do you use when you're boxing or training. I'm really thinking of buying a pair of Kobe 9 elites for boxing. Pic related.

theres an interesting article called "are basketball sneakers the future of boxing" if link it but I don't know how in the iphone

>>1182003
I used to do a traditional wrap (thumb in thumb loop, 3x around wrist, 3x around hand, 2x around thumb, between fingers, 3x around hand, finish around wrist), until I found another video that showed a different variation that used some of the wrap to pad the knuckles better. Now I use that.

>>1182026

I would include one more thing about pro fighting to that. Depending on where you are pro fighting could actually be easier than amateur. Because of amateurs rules you HAVE to be more technically sound to both throw and avoid more punches. Pro matches have more time and the activity is stretched out more. Additionally, the crop of fighters in your area may or may not be too good. I was at a pro event a month or so ago and saw some low level (< 10 fights) matches with guys at 177. They were AWFUL. I could have gotten in there at my current weight (170, 18 pounds above where I want to be) that night and wrecked them both. The same could have been said for pretty much every fight on the card except the main event, which was a rematch between a guy who fought on a Mayweather undercard and someone who previously beat him.

>>1182038
I wear a hideous pair of hyperdunks. I like the basketball shoes for the ankle support and grip on the soles. At some point if you want to compete you'll still need a pair of actual boxing shoes though.

>>1181785
>>1180168

I know you're trying to help and I appreciate it, but pretty much every thing you're posting is already in the sticky.

>>1182026
Thanks for answering. I was hoping for a estimate time wise. I'm 29 so I don't know if I can get a "ton" of amateur experience. But I want to try. I know everybody is different I guess I wanted to hear how long it took some people especially if they have experience starting as an old fag like me.

I have a lot of experience in kick boxing for a decade or so and dojo hopping since.

>>1182107
I turn 29 this year so I'm right behind you.

It'll be about a year and a half from when I started to when I'll have my first amateur bout. Though I had to shed a lot of weight and I am generally unathletic. The decade of kickboxing should speed up your transition a lot and staid in shape.

>>1182116
Thanks. I need to shed a lot of weight too currently 220 down from 260. Thanks for the input. Good luck on your first fight, remember keep those hands up!

>>1182116
Oh I also wanted to ask how long do you train for? How many days a week and for how many hours? If I'm going to do this I want to be able to plan around it.

>>1182164
5 days a week, 2-3 hours a day.

>>1182175
Though I'm also a retard who doesn't know how to stop. I train far longer than a lot of the guys who come in and honestly it might be hurting me in the long run since I don't give myself a lot of time to recover.

>>1182181
Interesting. I wanted to see if I could still go to the gym but it doesn't sound like it would be wise to do so. I'll have to bug /fit/ and do so more research about overtraining. How often do your gym mates go?

>>1182209
Most of the pros and guys competing at high levels go 2-3 times a week. They also tend to get more attention from the coaches so their time is more efficiently used.

>>1182083
Not everybody cares about reading the pastebin so posts like that are welcome.

>>1182774
The pastebin is there specifically to answer common questions and prevent the topic from becoming too redundant and/or filled with questions asking the same thing. If there were specific questions about technique, IE "What are some ways I could improve my positioning on my opponent?" then yeah, posting specific videos from LeeWylie or Wilson Kayden would be helpful. Dumping a guy's entire library kind of defeats the purpose of it being in the OP post.

>>1182038

honestly, when I go I just use a pair of cheap grey runners I got at a payless. But then again, I've JUST started sparring this week, and I'm honestly not big on how flashy a lot of athletic clothing is with all the bright colours and shit.

>>1182774
>>1182892
Yeah, you know what? Nevermind. You're right. It's not like there's a ton of traffic through this topic and it's going to start autosaging any minute.

>>1183073
Those are fine. The major thing basketball shoes have going for them is the sole design and ankle support, but by no means are they essential to sparring.

Are there any good muay thai heavy bag workout routines I can run when I get my home heavy bag?

I know this is /boxing/ but since this pretty much became the WWE board, i'm asking for a workout that incorporates kicks 'n knees 'n elbows since we're all here in the spirit of hitting stuff with our extremities

>>1183241
I'll be honest, I don't know much about Muay Thai and most of my bag routines consist of me trying to work on a specific strategy, ie

Working the jab/distance
Working power shots
Working combinations
Working high/low

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suvM7sJo-6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YuOvQ6DzGs

Do these help at all?

>>1183207

Honestly, I figure that until I start competing, the shoes and clothing probably don't matter. I'm also doing everything in a pair of really old jeans that I cut into shorts. I mean, it might make me feel more comfortable to wear better shit, but it also costs money and I'm between jobs right now.

>>1183411
Whatever you can manage! There's another site I go to that updates fairly frequently (rossboxing) and he emphasizes something I strongly believe in: if you have the will, the equipment doesn't matter so much.

"Since I’ve begun to revive this blog, I’ve had several boxing coaches ask me for training ideas that can be performed in gyms with limited funding and equipment. With that in mind, I will begin to highlight some successful fighters and/or programs that have excelled with little or nothing. One of the beautiful things about boxing and other combat sports is that you don’t need a fancy facility to condition yourself to fight at the highest level. A prime example can be seen by observing the lethwei fighters from the poor nation of Myanmar."

http://rossboxing.com/2015/12/03/lethwei-training-in-myanmar/

>>1180027
The way I stance is more geared towards MMA, but I'll discuss what we're discussing within a Boxing context.

>Pushing vs Snapping punches
>https://youtu.be/dOrkhGEbCK0
I think this is just based on school of thought.
Some people believe that by not pulling your punches too soon, you add the most mass to your punch, so it's most powerful.
Some other people believe that the extra mass isn't added, and or the amount it would add isn't worth how long throwing out and punch and retracting it takes.

>The other stuff
>https://youtu.be/ioZTz6CfJig

>bending at the waist
I'm not just bending at the waist, the bending includes the lower as well as the upper torso.

>from a more upright stance, I can pivot and move easier
Compared to your ridiculously unrealistically overly bend stance, yes, it's significant.
From the actual stance that I use, it's really not that different.

>bending at the waist leaves my head stretched out and exposed
With your ridiculously extremely excessive bending, yes, it could actually be a bit of a problem.
With my actual stance, it's not as much as a problem as you're seeming to make it out to be.
Even with such a forward bend, you can still move your head back from punches, especially hooks.

>friend bending at waist
He just looks comical.

>the deliberately weak and poor punches throughout the video
I thought that was hilarious.

>general inability to get away from punches
>wide stance
As shown in the video, you can move just fine, including pivoting; I tried to pivot as fast as I could with each stance, I really did.
The time I stand widest is with my Southpaw stance, which is bladed, and good for in and out movement.


>can't get away from 2 or follow up
It's almost exactly the same whether you're bend more or not.
You still could've used head movement and pivoted left whether or not you're bent, even with the ridiculous bending you did.
When you're extremely excessively bent, unlike my actual stance, some issues arise.

1/2

>>1180027
>>1183942 (You)

Here's the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpF2ljmhoAY&feature=youtu.be [Embed]

When I go low, It's often from my bob and weave, or exaggerated slipping. I'm guessing you may or may not have mistaken that with my stance.

I also included a little sprawl drill.
Wider stance, better balance and base.
Lower to the ground, easier to sprawl.

2/2

>>1183241
>Are there any good muay thai heavy bag workout routines I can run when I get my home heavy bag?

We have a Martial Arts General up right now.
>>1170129

>good routine
Personally, when I do bag work, I either work on technique, strategies and tactics (to some degree, the bag doesn't move, so I can't get very in depth with distancing and what not), or just start beating the fuck out of it to get a good workout.

As shown in the video here
>>1179004
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlRfGjgI41w
and as said here
>>1177572
I usually stay on the outside, getting in for short amounts of time, and getting out.
To work on developing my strategy, I decided to work on staying in more, and throwing combinations.
I worked on tactics like fake low roundhouse to fake middle or high Brazilian kick, fake side kick to turning side kick, etcetera.
I did some technique work more towards the end, working on my flying turning side kick, working on my tornado kick.
I also dicked around a little bit right at the end with some Capoeira stuff.

I think I also just kind of beat the shit out of the bag lightly a little bit, as I was also doing bag work for exercise.

>>1180027
Bending also makes the body a less easy target.

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>>1183942
>I think this is just based on school of thought.

No, no it isn't. Boxing incorporates both of them, but since most beginners immediately try and push punches, snapping punches are emphasized at the beginning of training. In your case, it looked like you were throwing nothing but pushing punches, which is a bad boxing habit since pushing punches are easier to slip and counter.

>>I'm not just bending at the waist, the bending includes the lower as well as the upper torso.

As were we. The point is that waist-bending in general is poor practice and should be minimized as much as possible.

>>Compared to your ridiculously unrealistically overly bend stance, yes, it's significant.

We're actually bent over about the same (pic related). The difference is I kept my feet underneath me, which makes moving easier.

>>friend bending at waist

From a boxing standpoint, his form is still better than yours.

>>the deliberately weak and poor punches throughout the video

Those were actually, for the most part, technically correct. They were about as powerful as we could muster from the awkward stance we were trying to emulate while trying to bring the punches back to our face as quickly as possible. On that note though, chambering and throwing from the waist is also bad boxing practice. It exposes the head and telegraphs the shot.

>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpF2ljmhoAY

Easily your best stance is started at 2:15, but even then you still have issues. Keeping your guard that close to your face with your lead hand severely limits your distance control.

>>When I go low, It's often from my bob and weave, or exaggerated slipping.

Both of which is wasteful in a game of economy of movement

>>As shown in the video, you can move just fine, including pivoting; I tried to pivot as fast as I could with each stance, I really did.

Yeah, when you're upright, yes. But you didn't show that at all in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6gkYbJtIQk.

>>1184194
>No, no it isn't. Boxing incorporates both of them, but since most beginners immediately try and push punches
We could argue about this, but I don't think it's going to get anywhere at this point.

>bending at the waist in general is poor practice
It has its advantages and disadvantages.
It keeps the body a less easy target, as shown in that ExpertBoxing video posted earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6DP6ZMo5i8

>bent over the same
It depends on the context.
I could've been lower in that video because of a bob and weave.
What I posted in the later video gives a better look.

>is wasteful in a game of economy of movement
So, you're saying bobbing and weaving is a waste of time?

>didn't show that at all in
From the beginning I was in a slow and light bob and weave already.
I was doing pretty much exactly the same thing, but wasn't throwing punches, and was going slower.
I wore more form fitting clothes in the later video so you could get a better idea about my body positioning.

Extra small is form fitting for me.
I wore a size small pants, and I think the shirt is a size small.
In the video outside, I was wearing medium pants, with a medium or large zip neck sweater. That masks my body positioning, and could've made it so you misinterpreted my body positioning.

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>>1184194
>>We could argue about this, but I don't think it's going to get anywhere at this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7b1rnaPLo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5anrbEnirPA

>>It keeps the body a less easy target, as shown in that ExpertBoxing video posted earlier.

Problem is he's actually bending at the knees and keeping his back far straighter than you are.

>>It depends on the context.
>>I could've been lower in that video because of a bob and weave.
>>What I posted in the later video gives a better look.

You're still really bent at the waist. The best stance you have is the one at the end of the video and on the right of pic related. Even then you still have some problems. Keeping both hands (especially your lead hand) so close to your face really limits your ability to feel out your distance and telegraphs your jab.

https://youtu.be/JrCgR4xwg0A?t=2m43s

>>So, you're saying bobbing and weaving is a waste of time?
No, bobbing and weaving in large circles like you are is a waste of time. Like I said, boxing is about economy of motion, so any wasted movement is bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V84r8Cf5DTc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8lMM9MCxfw

>>1184342
Hi mate, I had my first fight a while ago and was wondering if i could email it to you for any critique you might have? I'm not keen on sharing it on a public forum where anyone can see

>>1184367
email it to me and I'll upload it to my youtube.
[email protected]

>>1184374
Thanks for the offer but I already have it on youtube, I just don't want to paste the link where anyone could see it

>>1184367
Go to my youtube BenryBenbam and either use that email or PM me the link (can you do that on youtube?) I'll see what I can get out of it and help you in any way I can.

I'll be honest though, you're further along in your journey than I am, so whatever advice I could give you would probably be redundant. In your message let me know what you already see in terms of glows/grows and I'll do what I can from there.

>>1184342
>snapping vs pushing videos
[citation needed]
That's why I say it's not going to get anywhere.
We don't have actual science to back up our claims.
We're both not physicists, they're not physicists; and even if we take the time to pull up some information, unless we plan on doing so for a while, we could very well interpret the information incorrectly.

>he's actually bending at the knees
Irrelevant.

>far straighter
Straighter, not straight.

>keeping both hands so close to your face
It has its advantages and disadvantages, even in a Boxing context.

>limits your ability to feel out your distance
How so?

>bobbing and weaving in large circles is a waste of time
How so?

>expertboxing video up to 2:00
Sure, if it's one punch, you don't need as much movement.
If it's two punches, one after the other, you'd need to move more to avoid both compared to just one.

Combination punches, even more movement, either towards one direction, or multiple directions, depending on the types of punches, where your opponent is throwing the punches, and how you may or may not exploit the different movement options.

>>1184342
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7b1rnaPLo4
That video already says there's two sides to the debate.
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

>>1184416
>[citation needed]
This.

>>1184377
>I just don't want to paste the link where anyone could see it
You can put the video setting as unlisted. When unlisted, only people who have the link can watch it. If you post it on 4chan, only people who browse the thread could watch it. Those people could then chose to share the link, but it's not very likely a lot if anyone would share it.

>>1184416
>That's why I say it's not going to get anywhere.
>We don't have actual science to back up our claims.
>We're both not physicists, they're not physicists;

No they just have years of experience and cross-referencing with countless others with years of experience. My point isn't that snapping punches are the only way, it's that throwing only pushing punches is not a good habit as a boxer.

>Irrelevant

When the discussion is about keeping your back as straight as possible while trying to drop under a stance, it is extremely relevant.

>It has its advantages and disadvantages, even in a Boxing context.

It is a primarily defensive stance used by in fighters to keep their chin protected. It leaves you open to hooks and makes it harder to dictate range with the jab because of the distance the lead hand needs to travel to strike out. You said yourself you're more of an outfighter. It's counterintuitive.

>How so?

You're wasting movement and overextending. All motions in boxing should be small and compact as possible to allow you to return to your boxing stance and react, otherwise you're just stretching yourself further and further out of position.

>Sure, if it's one punch, you don't need as much movement.
>If it's two punches, one after the other, you'd need to move more to avoid both compared to just one.

Yes, that is true, but over-swaying back and forth like a pendulum gives you predictable rhythm that's easy to counter. You're not seating as if avoiding multiple punches, you're swaying back and forth as if you're trying to avoid single punches. If you were to sway like that in a spar or a fight, they'll most likely double up the punch on one side until you're either caught or so stretched out that you're out of position and even more vulnerable to a big punch, especially since they know you won't be able to sway back the other way since you haven't trained in more compact weaving.

>>1184628
>No they just have years of experience and cross-referencing with countless others with years of experience.
Objectively, that means nothing. Their arguments are just as invalid as anybody else without data or proofs backing up their claims.
Experience does not take the place of a logical argument. Their reasoning is based on things they don't have the data and science on.

>>1185343
It does, however, hold precedence over untested rhetoric. Experience + theory > theory.

You can go ahead and keep arguing for scientific reletavism, since you have even less evidence backing your claim making it have about the same validity. I'm going to keep becoming a better boxer and trainer.

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>>1185343
Here's a video comparing the power of one punch from various martial arts.
Watch how some of the other martial artists try to extend through the dummy while the boxer extends and then immediately retracts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfnGkV6qmTw

>>1184403
I've fought but I think you're far more knowledgeable than I am and you've been boxing longer

I'm honestly liking the videos about various boxers and their techniques, also the stuff about stance - that's great info.

>>1185603
There are too many variables that aren't accounted for, especially to determine how extending or following through plays a role.

It's pretty obvious, even with my limited knowledge, however, that the mass, or size, of the martial artists plays a role.

The Boxer was a big guy; he brings a lot of mass into the equation, relative to the other martial artists.

>>1184628
>No they just have years of experience and cross-referencing with countless others with years of experience.
What >>1185593 said.
Scientifically, theory is more than what they thrown down on the table. I think if we got together some knowledge on physics and biomechanics, we could come to a good conclusion.
I'm not arguing for either side. I admit that we lack significant data to come to any meaningful conclusion.

>is not a good habit as a Boxer
Like I said, it could be a bad habit or a good habit. We don't know.

>it's extremely relevant
We were talking about bending at the hips and torso here.

>keep their chin protected
That's fine for me.

>leaves yo open to hooks
I'm a fan of parrying, and head movement can always be used.

>harder to dictate range
The perceived range in my mental distancing is the same no matter where my hand is.
Keeping my hands so close is about generating power.
The further the fist travels, the greater its acceleration, the more powerful the punch.

>overextending
If you're avoiding a single punch, or few punches.

I believe that it's situational, whether or not certain body positions are beneficial.

>back and forth like a pendulum
The bag work was kind of like shadowboxing.

>as if trying to avoid single punches
Opponents will throw multiple punches in a row quickly, and opponents will try to chase your head as you move it.
I'm not saying they always will, but they have in the past, not just for me, and it's highly likely they will keep doing so, whether it's against me, you, or other martial artists and or street fighters around the world.

However, I haven't trained pure Boxing for years.
I'm pretty sure my head movement in sparring was more compact.
I was trying to apply theory to the bag, but I haven't applied the theory since I don't really Box anymore, and not everybody throws multiple punches to the head in a fast rhythm all the time.
I don't even bob and weave much. Like I said, I like parrying.

>>1186074
I really wanna see you spar. It seems that youre adamant on what you think is good theory, so why not throw on headgear and gloves and get some practical data the old fashioned way?

>>1186421
>It seems that youre adamant on what you think is good theory
What do you mean by that?

I'm simply stating that to find truth, we should apply something similar to those used in science.

>practical data
Practical isn't the best word.

If you're referring to the pushing vs snapping, I don't have equipment to measure the variables relating to all that physics and biomechanics jazz.

Just throwing punches at a bag, but one following through, and one snapping back, isn't going to get any data.

Further more, data should be analyzed objectively.

After a hypothesis is tested, multiple times, by multiple people, with all the factors accounted for and made constant, not only should it then be analyzed, it should be peer reviewed, and logical and reasoning should be applied into fitting it


Not to mention how the human variable makes things a lot more difficult and complex.
We can't have blind studies, which is important.

The test subjects punching, by knowing which type of punch they're throwing, can skew the results because of bias and how bias plays into the subconscious.
Not to mention the lack of consistency.
It's very, very difficult, if not very unlikely, that a person can throw a punch exactly the same way; exactly the same speed, exactly the same force, from exactly the same distance, with exactly the same stance, with exactly angle, at exactly the same area, but only change the variable of "pushing" or "snapping." Not to mention how muscles work.

Science is about finding truth, mate. There's no room for bullshit in science.

>>1186421
>I really wanna see you spar.
I have one video of myself sparring, and I was pretty rusty during that sparring session.

I went the last about 3 years without any training.
During the years before said 3 years, my training and sparring was becoming more and more less frequent.

During that 3 year period, I sparred a handful of times, and not on a regular basis.
By handful, I'd guess maybe around 5-8 times.

After about 3 years, I sparred one time. That one time is the video.

During that 3 years, I more or less got fat, got not as fat, got fat, and some combination.
I'm 235-140 pounds right now. I weighed anywhere from 130-160+ during that approximately 3 year period.

The rules are UFC rules, but just one round.
There's also no head contact, and we were wearing street clothes. We were wearing MM gloves, but with no hand wraps. We used to spar bare knuckle.
I'm the guy with the lightered coloured top, and the cuffed pants.
We were also dicking around more than sparring for improvement. The guy is a buddy of mine.

This is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48kZ5LFZblw [Embed]

There's also this breakdown video. Some of the commentary isn't that accurate, though, it's mostly correct.
I can give further insight from what I recall, if you so please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0mSAeVDcYI

I was also a bit worn out that day. I had the negative effects of going to sleep late the night before, and waking up early that morning.
I did far more walking that I was accustom to that day before the sparring, and it was getting late during the sparring, as it was getting dark during the sparring session. I don't remember, but I also might've skipped lunch before the sparring.
If you're not aware, these things have negative effects on cognitive and physical performance.
Or in other words, your brain and body don't work as well.

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>>1186561
Oh bitch bitch bitch.
all i see are mediocre excuses from a mediocre, """""""martial artist""""""""

>>1186561
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48kZ5LFZblw [Remove]

That was exceedingly unimpressive.

>>1177713
You look like a monkey style kung fu dude with boxing gloves on. By the way what sort of kneeing is that, don't want to offend or insult but i do muay thai and it is completely different.

>>1190490
>>1190615
That's hot; tell me more.

>>1191346
>what sort of kneeing is that
I was trying to go under Boxing rules, but reflexes kicked in, but I tried correcting it but it was too late. It was just a bad knee and a mess. Also, the bag is a lot thicker than someone's neck or head, so trying to grab for a neck or head that isn't there is kind of awkward.

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>>1191552
Oh no, you're the real gem here, I've never seen someone with such limp form take themselves so seriously.

Its like your'e compensating for a lack of ability with scientific terminology, and baby that's just a huge turn-off.

But hey, its your face not mine. As much as id love to, someone else who can actually jab and counter will put you on your ass eventually or maybe your girly punches and "mental distancing" will actually win you a match in the land of make-believe.

Either way, post a vid of it so anons can learn from your mistakes.
Till then, try not to push your pseudo-science as actual boxing technique. its offensive and just might get someone hurt.

>>1191987
>namefag
For what purpose, nobody needs to know which random shitpost you are making

>>1191987
Yes, I'm not worthy. Pease, sempai, I need punishment; I need to make up for how I've wronged.

>>1183207
What I (>>1183981) meant to say was, since you're already working out, you might as well focus on other things as well, such as strategies, tactics, etcetera, including what OP (>>1183373) said. I didn't watch the videos, but the concepts of training throughout arts are mostly relatively generally the same.

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OK, so I decided I want to try out boxing, I found a place and could go to my first training in one week.

My question is what's the best stuff to do to prepare for the training? I don't want to just jump into cold water, especially since my shoulders are sorta sensitive and I don't want to ruin them. I have access to a gym, if that helps.

>>1192675
>is what's the best stuff to do to prepare for the training?
Get in shape.
Get to know what's going to be included in training.
Get to know how teaching structure is going to be.
Get familiar with all that.
Don't forget about the get in shape thing. They're probably going to be having your exercise during class, so you should be in enough shape to keep up with that.

>>1192675
One week isn't going to be enough time to really "prepare" or condition your body enough. Do pushups, sit ups, squats, jump rope, and run if you don't already. Just go in, have fun, and work as much as you can without killing yourself.

>nearest boxing gym is a 30 minute drive away
>out of the dozens of people that train there, literally none of them aren't black
>I'm so pale I blind myself in the winter

>>1193450
So is mine. Totally worth it. We've got a good mix though. Lots of entry level guys trying to get some confidence and fitness, pros and prospects climbing the ladder, women trying to get in shape.

>>1193744
Maybe you can help me with another problem. I have no idea where the gym is, and the only way I can contact them is through a message thing on their website. there's no listing for prices or anything. I know it's legit because one of the guys there is 4-0 pro, over 30 wins ammy, and placed 3rd in the golden gloves in vegas.
Maybe you can find something more than I can
http://hithardboxing.com/

How do I adapt my boxing to fit into mma?

>>1193930
What state are you in? Have you tried Google maps? Use the message thing to ask them about rates. You could always just pop in and check it out. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and all that. If you're really worried about looking like an ass, go with a friend who wouldn't mind sharing an experience with you.

>>1194037
From what I understand you'd need to change your defense and stance a bit to compensate for the new types of attack (kicks, takedowns). Otherwise a lot of the same principles apply (distancing, taking good angles, etc) with new wrinkles. Marvin Cook seems to believe the true boxers stance would work fine in mma but I'm not sure. He has a ton of YouTube videos teaching boxing at mma seminars. You should check them out.

>>1194037
If you're really good at Boxing, you can just KO any ground hugging, butt grabbing faggot before they try anything.

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This is my setup what does asp/ think

> I also have a youtube channel full of boxing if you're interested

>>1194182
its good, have you trained boxing before???

If not i recommend you to search at sherdog forums stand up technique a guy with the nickname "mr sinister" his real name is Luis Monda he teachs the forgotten tricks of old school boxing great philosophy.

Also watch Joe Louis, Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles, Kid Gavilan, Tony Canzoneri, Benny Leonard, htey are beautifuk technicians no wasted motion.

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Ay famicoms.

My gym sold wraps and gloves and I figured I'd support my coach so I bought from him. The gear is Ringside. How is that for a brand?

The gloves are 14 oz. sparring gloves for $89.99, also Ringside. I didn't want to spend the extra $$$ ($130) for the 16 oz.

>>1194182
Not bad. Personally, I prefer not having a stand, and I prefer having more room around the bag to move around.
I'm interested in seeing your videos.

>>1194037
There are various ways to incorporate striking, including Boxing, into MMA.

Here's some videos to analyze and think about.

These aren't style vs style fights, however. These people are mixed martial artists. They're not just strikers, they're not just grapplers, they're not just people who've learned striking as well as grappling, they've trained mixing striking and grappling.

Carlos Condit vs Nick Diaz
They're both primarily strikers, but Diaz focuses on punching, while Carlos is more diversified.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQlcKlE15bg [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyRYIqPLnJQ [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbN2sLMyUm4 [Embed]

Anderson Silva vs Rich Franklin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIVD85VfZTs&nohtml5=False [Embed]

>all the fight's I'm familiar with aren't on YouTube anymore

I haven't watched this one, yet, and I don't know very much about Dan Henderson. Lyoto Machida is known for his adaptation of Karate for MMA, and being primarily a striker. His stance is wider and more bladed, and some MMA fighters don't think it's worth the benefits, or think it's just not a good stance. The evidence suggests otherwise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gt1gSeA7S0 [Embed]


I haven't seen this one, either.
Nate Diaz vs Dong Hyun Kim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foMGNPWdcpE [Embed]

>>1194195
Ringside is one of the better brands out there. Unless your coach has a thing about sparring glove weight, you should be fine if you're under 170 pounds. Otherwise go to Ringside's website and buy some 16oz gloves for about $30-80 cheaper than your coach is selling them for.

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>Seeking advice
Hi to everyone. 21 years old, about 80 kg of weight. I have petty experience in pugilism and tomorrow I apparently have to beat one low-rang bully. I guess he is weaker than me but he's also fatty ass and I think it's him advantage. I expect he have no practise in fights at all. If fact that I don't want to traumatize him. So here's the plan:
>12:45 am
>come closer to him
>put some stuff in him hands like books
>turn over
>use kappa
I don't want to be involved if real fight, but wanna turn off him. What should I do? Uppercut?

Sorry for mistakes.

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>>1195116
Just sneak up behind him without him noticing, and then push him over, make him hit the ground. Once he's on the ground, you can get into a straddle mount or something, and start hammer fisting his face.

>>1195116

By personal experience the best thing you can do in this case its a jab to the pit of the stomach, it turns of all the air of the opponent and avoids a more "agressive" fight

>>1194942
I'm around 170. Still need to check that.

For competition gloves, it's the same? I respect my coach and all but I'm on a budget so I'm going to buy it straight from the source from now on- same for headgear.

>>1195726
Amateur gloves are 12 oz for novice (<9 total) fights. I think they allow 10 oz for open bouts.

Pro is usually 8-10 depending on weight and mutual agreement when hashing out terms.

You don't need to buy through your coach. I'm assuming he's charging more to help with costs of running the gym. Title and Rinside both have affordable headgear and gloves. Just make sure you get stuff thats USA Boxing and AIBA approved if you want to use them in competition.

>>1195116
While I don't condone nonsanctioned fighting, if you have to I suppose you should have some advice.

Light tap to the forehead from a boxing stance to show him you're much, much faster than he is. If he decides to try and call your bluff, jab to the forehead and right to the chin. If he keeps trying to fight (if he's still up), keep out of his range, pivot when he charges, and hit him with a right across the jaw. You shouldn't need to beat the shit out of him, just hit him enough to let him know you're obviously better than him and it's in his best interest to take your advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAekTxGt8jU

>>1195389
This is also a great idea. Dig your jab into the pit of his stomach and make him regret being an idiot who doesn't really know how to fight.

>>1175630
Are Title boxing gyms actually a place to learn boxing? Or is it just boxing fitness?

I see they have a tiny ring in the one near me, but their website says nothing about sparring, or fighting at all. Literally just COME GET IN SHAPE WITH FAST, FUN PUNCHING WORKOUTS!

>>1198412
I've been to one and one of the guys who started in our gym/is competing at a Golden Gloves tournament this weekend works at one. They're more directed to cardio bunnies and have hourlong classes for that. However, they apparently do have coaches who will work with you if you're training to fight.

The ring is apparently more for display than actual sparring, though it's sturdy enough for it. They primarily want to attract bored housewives and weekend warriors.

>>1198426

>cardio bunnies

that... sounds kinda hot


Also, where I am it's 10 oz. , though it may depend on where you are and your weight class.

>>1195355

is it just me or is that .gif a shit punch? There's no hip or footwork in it, he flares his arm, and he winds up a bit.

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>>1198538
One of the interesting things about hammer fists is that it's allowed in Greek Boxing, but isn't allowed in Western Boxing.

ACTA Ancient Greek boxing at Dijon 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47jmOxzux-8

Personally, I'd do such a technique more like gif related.

>>1198760

What's with them playing with each other's hands before they start punching?

>>1198760
that's not how ancient greeks actually boxed is it? it l

>>1199048
How else do you expect a bunch of pedophiles in togas to box?

>>1175630
RVD used punches. Does that count as boxing?

>>1198511
>Also, where I am it's 10 oz. , though it may depend on where you are and your weight class.

Do you mean amateur boxing? My memory of the USA Boxing manual's a bit fuzzy but I have it right here in front of me:

It's based on age, weight class, and experience.

It always hovers between 10-12 oz with 12 oz being for heavier boxers (152 pounds or more) and 10 oz being for lighter ones

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>>1198763
Maybe it's to manipulate each other's guard and or ability to attack.

Notice how Blue Shoes pulls down Black Shoes' guard, and then throws a hammer fist to Black Shoes' head.
Blue Shoes throws a left handed hammer fist to the body, and Black shoes throws a hammer fist that looks like it missed.
Black Shoes throws a left hammer fist that gets blocked by Blue Shoes' right arm,
then Blue Shoes parries a strike while backing up.

>>1199549

Sorry, yes, amateur boxing. You know what? I'll talk to a coach tomorrow about glove sizes for amateur competition, to see if it's 12 oz for heavier guys. Seeing as I'm in Canada I don't see why it'd be much different, but that's what it said in the link - 10 oz.

I'm sorry, I honestly thought I posted the link:

http://boxingontario.com/athletes/amateur-vs-pro-boxing/

>>1199671
Yeah I don't know the rules in Canada. Only united states.

>>1200251

honestly, seeing as people in my gym have been as far as Ohio for bouts, I really can't see how much different it could be. Seems like the AIBA keeps it fairly uniform.

>>1200482
Yeah I don't know as much about the AIBA. We're still affiliated with them but most of the regulations in the manual are for USA Boxing.

How does the Diaz brothers' boxing compare to current top 10 boxers?

>>1194346
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gt1gSeA7S0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC9DV0aKzNk

>>1202251
Also wondering this

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>>1198763
>What's with them playing with each other's hands before they start punching?
>>1199656
>Maybe it's to manipulate each other's guard and or ability to attack.

>what non Wing Chun boxers say

>>1203014
>Wing Chun

Please leave

Does boxing have its own version of tapology?

>>1204127
Boxrec

>>1204179
Cheers

>>1204047
What do you have against Wing Chun?

>>1204420

the only kinds of wings i like are chicken

>>1204420
It generally has a poor reputation due to how it's taught.

It has a very poor record/showing in combat sports.

Practitioners who post here/on youtube generally have had a negative attitude that doesn't contribute much to boxing threads.

>>1194346
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foMGNPWdcpE
>>1194346
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gt1gSeA7S0
Why do videos always get flagged when they're posted on /asp/?

gonna try sparring for the first time this wed, how do I chose a good mouth guard? also I've found a lot of success switch hitting against the other beginners when we do these shoulder tapping psuedo sparring exercises, and I'm liking the number of options it gives, any thoughts?

>>1206303
Everlast's mouth guards are decent. Just don't buy the shit ones from Wal Mart or Target or whatever.

Switch hitting is a neat trick if you're naturally ambidextrous, you've practice it a lot, or working against someone much worse than you, but I wouldn't use it in a situation where you're not entirely confidence in your skills. The chance of getting hurt is too high. That's just my opinion though.

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>>1206303

>>1206303
Switching between southpaw and orthodox is superior strategically and tactically.
You'd be a fool if you're going to be Boxing long-term but not learning how to switch between stances to give yourself an advantage.

>>1206441

is there really much of a difference in mouth guard brands? I'm not the other guy, just not sure myself.

>>1206303

My main strategy with the pseudo sparring is to throw jabs to the center of his boddy, try to work that angle, and then nail his ribcage under his lead hand. Mind you, I'm not wailing him, nor he me, we call it "tag-sparring", I think it's good practice to warm you up for the real deal.

>>1198760
A western boxer would fuck them up. That technique looks terrible even if it is just Greek style boxing.

>>1207760
Some of the better mouth guard brands are better constructed and designed to keep the jaw locked and padded (shock doctor, brain pad).

Not a bad strategy. Newbies usually forget about the body and when they start getting tagged there it messes up their composure. You should try working high and low, then pivoting, and see what that does to them.

>>1208005

Okay, that's good to hear RE mouth guards.

Honestly, I still suck pretty hard with it. It probably helps that I'm still very new at the gym. I'm just trying to go in with a plan, even if the plan is just to tire the guy out by constantly being on his ass.

>>1208504
Just keep working. Sparring is very difficult and it takes a while to adjust. Congrats on getting your feet wet!

>>1194182
I'm interested in your videos.

>>1194182
Noice.

>>1206520
>post opinion as if it was fact
>call people stupid
>nobody argues with me
Is /asp/ died?

>>1210945
Already debated and discussed the pros and cons of learning southpaw when you're not a natural southpaw. Don't feel like doing it again.

How do I know a good coach or gym that doesn't feel profit driven / the coach doesn't really care too much

Basically, how do I find and know it's a good fit without a coach that seems skeezy

>>1211279
Everyone used to argue on here.

>How do I know a good coach or gym that doesn't feel profit driven / the coach doesn't really care too much
1. know what a good gym looks like
2. know what a bad gym looks like
3. know what the gym looks like
4. compare and contrast
5. profit

>>1213624
>How do I know a good coach or gym that doesn't feel profit driven / the coach doesn't really care too much
>Basically, how do I find and know it's a good fit without a coach that seems skeezy

Does the coach actively teach?
Are there guys actively training for upcoming fights/tournaments?
Have the fighters had some degree of success (winning tournaments,etc)

If yes to those, it's probably good

My coach and his assistants are all telling me to avoid switch hitting until I reach a very advanced level, if ever, but I just started and I want to raise both stances simultaneously to avoid preferring one side. What do you guys think?

>>1214078
Do what your coach says

>>1206303
I have a Venum one and it's pretty nice.

>>1214078
All of my coaches (one being a national champion) told me otherwise so do whatever the fuck you want.

>>1214078
Your coach and assistants are stupid, ignorant, delusional bullshitters. You don't have to be smart to coach Boxing.
You'll favor one side if you don't train both sides at the beginning. You could get down a month's worth of basics at most to understand concepts better so you can apply them to another stance better but you can just start now.

>>1214078
Fuck your coach.
Just don't focus too much on the advanced switch hitting stuff while neglecting your basics in Orthodox, and Southpaw.
>footwork
>jabs
>crosses
>hooks
These are the basics, don't neglect them.
Note that switch hitting has its own basics, and you should still be practicing those things.

>>1214609
>delusional
I like how this word's catching on.

Longtime boxing fan with a couple od questions for people that have experience in boxing.

I've always wanted to get into the sport for fun and fitness, but my shitty city never had a single gym until recently. I'm 27, am I too old to start? Obviously I know I could never be a pro, but is it too late to start and still compete at the amateur level? I can dedicate a lot of time for training if I need to. What could I realistically expect to accomplish starting this late, other than learning some self-defense and increasing my fitness level? Could I compete at any level at all?

>>1214745
>Obviously I know I could never be a pro
You never know until you try, really, really hard. And then when you've tried and failed, you try again, really, really hard.

>>1214790
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone that has had any success or even become a pro-level fighter after starting in their late 20's. It's not pessimism as much as I'm just being realistic. I would be happy being competitive at an amateur level if that's possible given my starting age, really. I mean, I plan to start training regardless (for fun, fitness and defense), but I would like to compete somehow in the future potentially.

>>1214802
>It's not pessimism as much as I'm just being realistic.
You're not being realistic. You literally cannot know until you try, and then try multiple times because of the various possible errors and variables.

>>1214803
Has there ever been a pro-level boxer that started this late? I'm actually genuinely curious.

>>1214807
I started at 27 but I'm not trying to go pro (unless I show a LOT of promise in the amateus which, based on my current level, is not likely). The boxers who typically started later or are used as examples (Wilder, Marciano, etc) were exceptional athletes in other sports or had a history in boxing before going pro.

That being said, there's nothing stopping you from going pro. With some dedication and good coaching you can go pro on six months to a year and work your way up. It's just very unlikely (not impossible) that you'll be fighting for millions of dollars and world championships, but you'll never know if you don't try.

So i'm legit fat, should i start boxing?

>>1215545
Yeo. You'll suffer but quickly grow accustomed to it !
It's tons of cardio too. Nobody cares about someonz so don't give a shit about that. Just go ,get yelled at for your poor fom and awful cardio and improve from that

>>1215557
Thanks man

Would going to a kickboxing or Muay Thai gym give me the same type of boxing skills as a regular boxing gym? Or do they train their punching differently or not as well? I'm not really interested in KB or MT, but I don't have a pure boxing gym near me. Fucking MMA everywhere.

>>1216029
The technique is the same as I understand it, the implementation is different. There's a guy who goes to our gym that also does MMA in a different gym above us. His technique for his actual punches is pretty good. His stance and the way he puts them together, though, is off.

Speaking of which, our gym went to a Golden Gloves tournament last weekend with three entries. One lost early, one placed second (the coach thinks he should have won, but relied too heavily on body shots that the judges didn't score well enough), and one placed first.

>>1216029
Additionally where are you? USA Boxing has a gym finder that might help.

>>1216057
Unfortunately I'm in a small town in middle-of-nowhere Arkansas. The closest place with a boxing gym is Little Rock which is over an hour away or maybe Hot Springs, but I've never seen one when there.

>>1215567
It will be so worth it in the long run, I do boxing focused for mma for 1 hour 3 days a week and weighed 385 when I first started; 10 months later I reached 335.

>>1216076
it annoys me how arkansas is pronounced arkansaw

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So I just signed up for a martial arts gym, pretty neat place but most of the time we end up doing some stuff that I have no idea how to do like slips and hooks, besides watching the videos in the OP what else can I do to learn more about the basics?

Question,

At my gym there are two people, an older guy and a younger woman, both of whom shorter and lighter than I am - being 5'9" and 140 pounds at the most. I'm kinda interested in how they punch. They both do these very light punches. Doesn't move the bag too much, but it's still hard, you just hear a quick little "snap". I guess a quick little snap is a great way to describe the whole punch. Both of these people have more experience than I do, is there some reasoning behind this? I mean, I can punch just as fast, but when my punch lands, as long as it's not a jab, there's a LOT of force behind it and the bag moves a good deal, like, I don't want to try to show off or anything, but there are guys that are pretty darn big that don't hit the bag as fucking hard as I am.

Is there something that I may be missing with regards to these two people's technique, who I honestly know would trounce me in a bout, that I should be learning from. Is that punch with a lighter snap something I should emulate, or should I keep going with the punch with more weight behind it? Or, better yet, should I learn to incorporate both into my technique?

>>1218623
>should I learn to incorporate both into my technique?
This. We don't have the science on what's better so we should use both since they're both effective.

>>1218623
You could be hitting the bag harder but the difference is the amount of follow through. People in here talked about it earlier and we don't know if more follow through adds more mass or not but if you punched someone in the head with more follow through it really strains their neck muscles more and make them lose their balance.

>>1218623
Light slappy tappy punches is point boxing baby bullshit with no power and usefulness to it in a real boxing match. Keep doing what you're doing.

>>1218623
That slow follow through bullshit is stupid shit that's going to get you knocked out. It doesn't add power and takes longer so you'll get fucked up in a real boxing match.

>>1218623
It depends.

To an untrained eye, "light" punches that have the good "sound" might actually be harder than some of the bigger "pushing" punches that cause the bag to swing and sway more. Ideally the bag should shake and shiver, not sway too much, even with a ton of power.

There is no one single way to punch, light punches, heavy punches, pushing punches, snapping punches, they all have their purpose and use. Trying to do only one makes you a one-dimensional and predictable fighter.

>>1218705
>>1218656
>>1218649

These all make good sense, I think I'll ask them about it when I get the chance. See What they say. I can guarantee that the one guy is definitely a hard puncher. I've done some mitt work with him. Not sure about the blonde woman, but if I can admit she'd easily beat me a bout, it's probably safe to say she hits harder.

>>1218668
>>1218665
In a way, both of these are probably right in some sense.

>>1220666

sorry for the shit grammar in this post, I try to be better with it but it's been a LONG day.

>>1220666
>In a way, both of these are probably right in some sense.
That's life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv77YF1vkeQ

>>1175630
I could knock you out mate

>>1216029
No it won't. Your hooks will be a bit worse ,and your uppercuts will be non existent. You won't have the same stance or the same movements. You won't learn much about slips and ducks because you could be throwing an elbow or a kick instead.

>>1221886
I bet you could! My head movement isn't that good but I'm working on it.

>>1214802
The older you are the steeper the slope

>>1177713
Go to a gym, man, all you're doing is developing bad habits. You're literally worse off than a newbie on their first day.

>>1217937
Shadowbox
Practice on bag
Follow instructions from coach

>>1217937
Didn't see this originally. Are there any videos you want me to make to help?

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recommended boxing shoes or are they all the same? i was gonna get some cheap ones off amazon or something. dick's sporting goods any good?

>>1223492
Adidas, Nike, and Everlast all make good ones. Title and Ringside aren't bad either.

Got a strong shot to the left side of the bofy under the ribcage. 14oz gloves. A few hours ago and it still hurts. Should I worry?

>>1224578
Can you breath well???

>>1224744
Breathing just fine, yes. Only 'symptoms' are pain that gets stronger in certain movements or when it is pressed.
Possibly the spleen I think.

>tfw going away to college and trying to find a good boxing gym to work at in sarasota

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>watch boxing movie or anime
>reminded I like boxing and feel inspired
>browse asp
>get too scared to go to a gym or shop around
>remember I'm a social retard nerd who is 100% out of shape aside from weight
>shadowbox in my room for a week or two
>do bits of exercise inbetween Internet browsing indoors with no equipment
>eventually give up
>don't want to walk into a gym with nothing to offer
>don't even know what gym to go to
>sit at home
>consume media
>repeat

>>1225468
>nerd
You did good in pre-school, right?
You didn't have shit to offer, nigga.
They gave you your shit so you could go into kindergarten, in which you didn't have shit to offer (for the most part).
A Boxing gym is the same shit, dawg.
It's a school, in which you go to mother fucking class, learn shit, and then impress everyone by how well you obtained knowledge and developed skill, nigga.

>>1225468

Dude, just go to a gym already. I thought I'd get laughed out with how skinny I was and how shit I always was at jump rope. But honestly man nobody cared at that and everybody was just plain great and helpful. If they're douchebags, it's not because you suck, it's because THEY suck. Everybody starts out bad, that's why you go to learn - you don't get better by not learning.

>>1225502
>you don't get better by not learning.
That's debatable.

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>>1225468
Just go for it, I'm the lightest guy there weight wise and no one gives a shit. I got my ass beat in sparring when I first started but after a couple months now I can hold my own against some of the bigger guys. No one gave a shit about me being new.

>>1224900
mmm....it sounds like a bruise, but its better if you go to see a doctor

>>1225504

>that's debatable
>debatable
>batable
>bait

>>1224900
It's always best to see a doctor just in case, even though doctors often think people go too often for stupid shit.
But that's part of it.
A majority of people are stupid, uneducated when it comes to knowledge of medicine and physical well being, that's why doctors are in business.

Starting as someone that is more or less completely out of shape, how long should I expect to get into decent shape when I start boxing? I'll probably go to the gym three or four times a week. And do cardio on some of my off days. And how long does it usually take to learn the fundamentals and begins sparring?

>>1226372
>Starting as someone that is more or less completely out of shape
>go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week
>do cardio on some of my off days
These things don't seem to fit together.
If you're tight on money, you should spend a month or two to get into shape, so you can physically afford to go to class 3-4 times a week, and not be too tired to learn and perform well.

>how long does it usually take to learn the fundamentals and begins sparring?
Depends on your ability to learn and develop skill, depends on how good the methods you use to learn and develop skill are, depends on how dedicated you are, depends on how much effort you put in, and it also depends on how good your teacher is.

>>1226372

>how long should I expect to get into decent shape when I start boxing?

If you're an average /asp/oster then a couple years with proper diet and exercise. More or less depending on how much work you put in.

>how long does it usually take to learn the fundamentals and begins sparring?

You need to be in good shape before you start sparing. You also need to know how to protect yourself and box safely and responsibly because it is a dangerous sport. I'd take at least 6 months to learn fundamentals before getting in the ring if you're totally new.

>>1226372
If you really apply yourself and actually spend the time at the gym working and not just sticking to what's comfortable or hanging around and watching others, six months to a year. We've got a guy that goes to our gym that really grinds my gears. He's the "watching others" guy:

>>Been going for six months
>>Runs a half mile
>>"Shadowboxes" one or two two-minute rounds
>>MAYBE jump ropes for half of two two-minute rounds
>>Talks for 15-20 minutes in between exercises
>>Takes 10 minutes to put on his handwraps
>>Asks me if I want to spar him
>>I agree
>>He ducks his head, charges in without punching, aims haymakers at my chest and arms
>>Proceeds to get the shit beaten out of him

I've stopped really "sparring" him and have been training him when he comes to the gym (which has become less and less frequent once he realized he can't Billy Hope-rage his way through a fight). I've been making him shadowbox, do bagwork, and do mittwork while instructing him on the right technique, and it's actually made a difference (another coach who gave up on him commended him on actually snapping his jab on the bag after I spent a night training him), but then he leaves for a few weeks, then comes back and forgets it all. I've tried to tell him what to do at home/when I don't have time to work with him, but I usually get an "Uh huh, ok" and a glassy stare that tells me he's not paying attention. The few times I have "sparred" with him more recently has been me coaching him up while throwing weak arm punches at him and giving him openings to attack properly. I really don't like him and want him to either start coming regularly so what he learns will actually stick or stop coming all together.

Don't be that guy. Listen to your coaches, ask for advice on what to do for strength/cardio training, and don't spend too much time at the gym resting. You're there to get better, you can't do that if you're sitting around not working.

>>1225456
There is nothing in Sarasota, boxing is dead

>>1227323
Did these guys close down?
SARASOTA BOXING CLUB
1325 NORTH LIME AVE.
P.O.BOX 53272
SARASOTA, FL 34237

YOUNG GUNS BOXING CLUB
5708LAWTON DR.
SARASOTA, FL 34233

>>1223082
How to uppercut would be cool

>>1227769
What? Go to a fucking gym, literally like asking how to jab or cross.

>>1227843
>literally like asking how to jab or cross.
Coaches usually wait until beginners have a few more moves under their belts before they teach the uppercut.

>>1227769
OP should make a video explaining things EB doesn't cover in his video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmxyguvPwlo

>>1226619

That sounds like a tough guy to coach on any level.

>>1226619
Why the fuck are you coaching after only a year of boxing

>>1228484
2 times a week for a year is a year's worth of Boxing, right?
Then 4 times a week for a year is two years worth of Boxing.

>>1228534
>right?
No.

>>1228484
Getting certified isn't that hard. You register, get a background check, take a class, take a multiple choice exam, and bam you're certified. Even though it's all official and whatnot I refuse to think of it as such and instead refer to myself as at best a junior coach while my head coaches (60+ years training/fighting/boxing combined) refer to me as a trainee or novice or whatever.

Basically they let me work with newbies on the basics (stance, footwork, punching form, movement, BASIC strategy) but otherwise I'm still at the beginning of the learning curve. Having a Master's degree in education helps a bit, too.

>>1228035
EB did a good job explaining it. The only thing I disagree with (and it's a minor quibble) is that I do bend my knees and sink into my uppercuts (I don't pop back up the way he does to illustrate the "mistake" he's identifying, though). I didn't really realize it but I'm doing exactly what he recommends (shifting to the side of the uppercut) without meaning to. The only thing I would add would be to relax the arm and clench the fist (which is what you should be doing anyways), otherwise it over sails or relies too much on the shoulder when the power should be coming from the feet.

>>1228721
>You register, get a background check, take a class, take a multiple choice exam, and bam you're certified.
Where?

>>1229046
USA Boxing. The class has to be with a Certified USA Boxing coach, who can also administer the test. In my case my coach is a pretty big name in the Virginia boxing scene so he did both for me as part of a four hour class.

>>1230825
I will add that there are levels of boxing coaches. Right now I'm a level 1, which means that, at most, I can start a club (not happening) and work a corner at local boxing events (right now my coach wants me to be a second to the corner man for a while before he feels I'd be ready to work my own corner).

>>1230840
>right now my coach wants me to be a second to the corner man for a while before he feels I'd be ready to work my own corner
Our actions effect others. People don't always plan very much before doing things that will effect others, because of how much the person doing the thing could benefit. But that could negatively effect other people. It would cause the person to gain strength at the expense of others. This is one of the many reasons to fight impulsivity. Not just in more social things, but in fighting as well.
A fighter could strengthen one part of his fighting ability but at the expense of another part. And since these parts are connected, the whole thing could lose structural integrity.
rambling/bump

I've been boxing for 2 years and have noticed lately I don't keep my hands up high as I used too. My right goes up when I'm up close in sparring and both when I'm trying to get really up close.

Is this a bad habit starting to form, or is it just a level of comfort you eventually hit?

>>1235613
Most likely a combination of both. I've noticed a lot of more experienced boxers let their hands drop when they know they're not in range and bring them back up as they close in. As long as your head movement is still good then it probably isn't too big a problem. I'd ask your coach if it needs to be fixed.

PUNCHING POWER:

Reminder

The hips help add power, but they're not the only thing.

The pectorals add speed.
Rotation of the upper body, that adds mass, but it also adds speed.
Rotation of the hips, that adds mass, which is important, but it also adds speed.
Those muscles aren't about muscling through, but about contracting quickly to generate speed, all through the pectorals, upper body, and lower body (hips).
It's not just that, no.
There's also the legs.
The legs really get that mass in there, as well as speed.

FEMA

Family
Equals
Martial
Arts

FEMA

F=MA

F = M * A

Force
Equals
Mass
Multiplied by
Acceleration

Force = Mass * Acceleration

FEMA

Are hooks in the head supposed to even hurt?

>>1237432
Depends. I utilize it as a jab sometimes to throw people off. My first fight was a knockout with a hook

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What do you guys think about overhands?

>>1238023
Really good. My coach was teaching me a combo with a jab followed by an overhand for when someone tries to lean away from you.

Go watch some Lennox Lewis, that guy knows how to use the overhand.

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Reminder to exercise your neck muscles to strengthen your "jaw."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U_k1q66cTY

>>1239073
Good neck muscles will definitely help with absorbing punches.

Hopefully though your defense and footwork will help you not get hit flush at all.

Bump

In training for my amateur bout in June, so I haven't been as active lately.

>tells someone i'm debuting in this gym
>starts sparring with them lightly
>i land a clean kick
>his face changes, he makes it personal and goes full power on me
Not sure what happened here or what I did wrong.

The circumference of my hand is approximately 9 inches, I am 63kg and 5'8, would it be better for me to buy 14oz gloves instead of 16oz?

>>1241285

Go to a sporting goods store with your wraps, and try on a pair of each with the wraps on. It's the only way to know. I use 14oz for bagwork, though 16oz is used for sparring, with very few exceptions. If you're just starting, might as well get the 16oz gloves anyways. I've still got to get a pair of 16oz gloves, maybe titles.

Also, I'm more or less your weight and height.

>>1241285


>>1241531 here again. Just also saying that I've been fine with 108" wraps by everlast - though they DO stretch out a lot. I'm starting to think of getting another set of something different.

>>1241044

Good luck.

>>1241044
Noice.
You might want to get more comfortable fighting in front of big crowds by sparring in public parks or something, maybe even start and play in a small event if you've got the networking, time, energy, or what not.

>>1241650

>sparring in public parks

is that legal?

>>1241720
>is that legal?
It's just like playing any other sport in a public park.

But as an extra precaution for bystanders, people might want to wear athletic looking clothing, and gloves.
Headgear also makes things look better.

>>1241531
>>1241545
Sadly there's no sporting store here in my town that sells any fight gear, so I have to get my stuff online. I was planning on buying some Sandee or Windy gloves, probably going to get the latter since I've heard that they can last for a long time.

I used to have the same wraps as you 1but it was a bit too short for my liking even though I have small hands. So far I'm using Duo Gear 180 mexican handwraps and they're pretty good so far so i'd recommend them.

>>1241650
The crowds we'd draw in the park is probably no bigger nor intense than the ones we have in the gym anyways.

>>1241545
Just get some 180s from title or ringside.

>>1241081
One of two things:

1. He either took that shot to mean you knew what you were doing.
Or
2. He lost composure and started fighting you harder, which is bad on his part.

Either way he should have backed off if he saw you were overwhelmed.

>>1241880
Hey Benry, I sometimes have a bad habit of lowering my hands whenever I throw combos. Is there a specific training method I can use to rectify this? I looked at some resistance band shadowboxing but I'd like your advice.

>>1241880
>The crowds we'd draw in the park is probably no bigger nor intense than the ones we have in the gym anyways.
I guess it depends on where you live. Parks could have hundreds of people during a summer weekend where I live, not including the homeless people.
Smaller parks almost always have at least a dozen people doing something on a clear day where I live, not including the homeless people, and depending on the time of day.

>>1241918

When you're practicing the combo, go slow at first so that you can catch yourself doing it better. Then slowly increase speed until you can do it without lowering your hands.

>>1241918
Another suggestion is to work mitts with your coach. Let him know you're worried about dropping your hands. Have him throw over your hands if he sees you drop them.

Your hands should go in a straight line from your cheeks to your opponent, then straight back.

>>1241941
Roanoke's a pretty big place, but it doesn't get big crowds in the parks. Additionally, it's not the gym and that creates liability issues.

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>>1241941

I'm the anon you're responding to. Honestly, I've seen a couple guys doing mitt work in a parking lot once. I don't think I'd full-on spar in a park though.

>>1190490
Can we see a video of you then?

>>1194142
Just like James Toney!!!!
Or like Gokhan Saki!!!!
Or like Badr Hari!!!!
Or like Errol Zimmerman!!!

LOL, boxers typically go at it back and forth for many rounds before a KO occurs, but they're going to consistently KO a MMA with the first punch every time? lol

>>1244266
Three of those guys were kickboxers and Toney was old, out of shape, and desperate by the time he tried MMA.

I agree with the general point, but they're bad examples.

How do I into jumping rope, and why should I care about it?

>>1246111
Start slow and work your way into being comfortable.

Rotate from your wrists, not your shoulders/elbows

Small bounces off the balls of your feet, not springing from your knees.

Jump rope helps with cardio and rhythm. It also makes your feet "lighter" and "bouncier" in the ring when you move so less of your movement is heavy and planted. We have a guy who just recently got to feel that difference. He normally charges in and attacks the body relentlessly, but lost in the finals at the Regional Golden Gloves because it looked like the other guy "did more." Our coach put him on a regimen that included twice as much jump rope a day and told him to keep his feet light in the ring during sparring, "like you're skipping rope." After about two weeks he was able to jump in and out of engagements and move laterally more effectively, which made him a hell of a lot harder to hit.

>>1246143
When you say start slow, what do you mean?
Also, I'm rotating from my wrists but I'm still feeling a bit of a burn in my shoulders. What gives?

>>1246881
Most people want to start jumping as fast as they see the pro/actors do it, so starting by not forcing the issue and skipping slowly is a good way to get better. If you're already at the point where you're using your wrists instead of your elbows, you're probably already past that issue.

>>Also, I'm rotating from my wrists but I'm still feeling a bit of a burn in my shoulders. What gives?

That's normal. It's that your arms and in particular your shoulders are stabilizing the entire arm as the rope goes through its motion. They'll get stronger as you do it more.