nano reef sadness

>>2460306
>32 degrees C
lol
that's some bullshit you're telling me right there.

all of those animals regularly survive temperatures higher than 32C in the wild. Hell, corals are supposed to be kept at 29 or higher.

>>2460310
>Water Conditions: 72-78° F, dKH 8-12, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.020-1.025


also great barrier reef temperatures: 24C/ 75F in the winter, peaking at 30C/ 86F summer


basically my poor little clowns went from winter to summer in a few hours

90+ degrees water temp is enough to kill any fish. It might not even of been from temperature but dissolved oxygen levels. oxygen is depleted faster at higher temperatures especially in saltwater

>>2460316
>https://www.thespruce.com/reef-tank-temperatures-2924179

84-89 F is normal for these animals.

the time period of the change also isn't relevant, fish swim through thermal gradients in the ocean that may instantly change temperature by 10 degrees or more. It doesn't kill them or even bother them.

If OP doesn't understand this then his livestock undoubtedly died of his ignorance, not heat.

>>2460316
>oxygen is depleted faster at higher temperatures especially in saltwater
I appreciate the lesson from someone that just killed off his entire tank. I'm sure you're qualified to teach.

Now let me tell you as someone with a not-dead saltwater tank, 3 little fish in a 30g tank is not enough to consume all the oxygen even at 32C for a month. It simply isn't enough fish.

It IS likely they died of depleted oxygen, but from a bacterial bloom because you put livestock in an uncycled tank.

>>2460322
>> you put livestock in an uncycled tank.

this tank has been well established for years

my clowns were a true mating pair

>>2460319
>thinks going from 78 to 90+ degrees can't kill fish

go set your heater to max and see what happens

>>2460319
there a big difference between a fish being subject to a temperature change in nature and a fish that's being cooked to death in a tank with nowhere to go

>>2460327
I used to regularly keep tanks at 89 F and they went well above 90 in the summer. I know for a fact it won't kill fish.

>>2460330
a valid point except small fish usually live near the surface or in the surf zone where water typically goes over 90 in the daytime.

Heat alone didn't kill OP's fish. Maybe it killed a snail and the ammonia spike killed the fish. But it would take days, not hours, for a snail or other dead thing to rot even at that temperature.

>>2460319
did you even read what you posted? it actually makes a lot of sense why my clowns died. perhaps for the reason i already said

>There are some potentially serious problems with higher water temperatures in saltwater aquariums, however. The higher water temperatures in saltwater (and freshwater, too), the less dissolved oxygen (DO) it will hold, which is detrimental to every one of the organisms in your tank. In general, dissolved oxygen levels are about 20% less in seawater than in freshwater. Without getting into all of the scientific calculations, formulas, and data, let's just accept that the saltwater at the equator, where the surface water temperatures are in the mid to upper 80's, holds about two-thirds of the DO as the water at the poles, where the water is really cold.


>As an example, the Clownfish requires a Dissolved Oxygen level of about 7 mg/l while the Marlin requires a DO of about 3 mg/l. Ironically, most of the critters in saltwater aquariums require higher levels of DO than do most of the other fish in the ocean. In the wild, most of the saltwater tropical fish are found on or near the reefs, as opposed to the deeper waters of the oceans, where the DO is higher due to the waves breaking on the reef, aerating the surface water


tl;dr hot water and salt water = low oxygen levels
and clowns need high levels of dissolved oxygen

>>2460334
>tl;dr hot water and salt water = low oxygen levels and clowns need high levels of dissolved oxygen
yes, I know.

as I said, three tiny fish in a 30g tank are not going to run out of oxygen at any temperature.

that is an extremely understocked tank. I stock heavier than that and I live at an elevation that has 20% less oxygen than you and my tank still goes over 89F in the summer. My fish don't die from lack of oxygen.

Yours didn't either. Not from fish consuming it anyways. Bacteria maybe, but if the tank is years old that also seems pretty unlikely.

>>2460333
i'm sure you kept your tanks at 89 degrees. whatever. they surely were not subject to going from mid-70s to low 90s. water temps should not change drastically and rapidly. just a 2-3 degree change in one full day is considered stressful


>But it would take days, not hours, for a snail or other dead thing to rot even at that temperature.

i just checked on this tank two days ago. it was fine and the clowns were as healthy as ever. (to move a hermit to a different tank)

tbf it was a very low maintenance setup but and it would go several days without attention but these fish did not die from neglect

>>2460338
>these fish did not die from neglect
fair enough. You say the tank is mature I believe you.

but I know from personal experience that heat didn't kill them. Nor did a temperature change. My tank is always at 79F at night, and when the sun hits it and the lights come on in the summertime it very quickly goes over 90. My entire upper floor of my house does.

this isn't some secret or arcane knowledge, anyone that dives in tropical waters knows temperatures like that won't kill fish, and large temperature changes have no effect on them at all.

>>2460339
>and large temperature changes have no effect on them at all.

then, please tell, why do we acclimate fish

>>2460341
also i just remembered, i tested the water parameters of both my nano tanks when i was moving the hermit.

both had perfect water chemistry (the two tanks test vials were indistinguishable)

>>2460341
>then, please tell, why do we acclimate fish
mostly because many dealers keep their fish in brackish water.

>>2460342
it's fine, if you want to think 90F temperatures killed your entire tank be my guest.
Just don't expect any experienced reefkeeper to believe you. We've all had our tanks swing over 90 for hours or even days. Chillers exist for a reason.

Some people probably even had fish die from the lack of oxygen, but they're not people with one inch of fish per 5g's of water.

>>2460344
>keep their fish in brackish water.

true lower salinity can be less stressful on the fish, the lfs keeps salinity low to reduce acclimation times

but; why do we acclimate FRESH water fish? surely its not salinity ;^)

>>2460345
an abundance of caution.

I personally don't acclimate SW fish. In fact I take a new clown fish in my hand and run it under tap water for about 5 minutes before it goes in my tank.

which not only has chlorine, but has 0 salt and a wildly different temperature and pH than my tanks. It has never killed a fish I own. It could, and that's why I don't recommend FW dips to people that don't know what they're doing, but if you're careful and would rather risk losing a $34 fish than infecting a $1000 tank it's effective enough.

>>2460349
>using untreated tapwater to dip a fish instead of ro fw


whatever bro


theres abundance of caution and then theres carelessness

>>2460350
>theres abundance of caution and then theres carelessness
I used to agree when I was new to the hobby.

I did everything exactly according to the book and still killed thousands of dollars worth of fish.

Later I got cheap fish and stopped worrying about them and suddenly I was way better at keeping tanks alive. I think a lot of inexperienced people monkey around with their animals too much. It's not rocket science, and these animals rarely die from temperature or pH problems. Or directly from chlorine for that matter.

It almost always comes down to O2, ammonia, or nitrate. In some rare cases it's a problem with feeding.

>>2460351
>I think a lot of inexperienced people monkey around with their animals too much

this tank has been literally untouched for like months

>>2460353
was your cardinal tank-bred?

>>2460354
i'm not sure actually he was given to me, it never looked super healthy when i first got it i had the feeling he was used to cycle a tank

>>2460357
Probably then. Wild ones are less likely to survive cycling.

>>2460306
thats why you make your own controller on arduino or some shit, and let it operate heater/lights/cooling fans.

>>2460361
It's impossible for a digital controller to reset itself to a higher temperature. There is no processing failure that would produce that result ever.

What actually had to happen is the solenoid that closes the 120v circuit became welded shut. This could be avoided by building your own, but frankly the parts you'd be able to buy are the exact same ones the Chinese are using to assemble their controllers. So nothing would be gained.

OP suffered a fluke mechanical failure, it happens sometimes.

>>2460363
we can rule out operator error because OP said the tank was running fine prior to the failure.

We can rule out probe failure because presumably the probe was reading the same temp as the water.

One possibility I've seen before is if the probe is out of water either because of evaporation or disturbance. One time my cat pulled my temp probe out of the sump. I didn't notice until I touched the tank and it was hot. I dropped the probe back in and it read 99.9, the highest it will go. I don't know how long my tank was over 100 degrees, but nothing died so it probably wasn't more than a day or two. But anyways, if OP's temp probe was exposed to air it would cook his tank.

OP, what if it was not the heat that killed them but the heater releasing electric waves into the water?

>>2460368
usually trips a breaker or kills the aquarist.

That's the reason experienced aquarists spend the $7 for a GFCI adapter.

>>2460369
If the heater was broken (and setting itself on a higher temperature indicates it was) then it could have possibly sent some shock waves into the water, strong enough to fry the fishes but not to harm the OP.
OP, did you turn off the heater before putting your hands in the water?

>>2460371
>and setting itself on a higher temperature indicates it was
It would if he wasn't using a controller.

>>2460372
il be using a heater controller for my tank now

>>246037
pretty sure it just failed and set itself to max temp (some chinese digital 300w heater i bought for live rock buckets that i was using temporary)

>>2460366
>But anyways, if OP's temp probe was exposed to air it would cook his tank.

this is what happened 100%

the heater was a probe style that was never intended to be used in the tank

it evaporated enough to stop reading temp