Border Collies

>>2459448
Dogs in general tend to reflect their owner's personalities to an extent. Also they say ACDs are also hyperactive but I've seen plenty that are lazy fucks. They're pretty intelligent from what I can tell, at least enough that they can get jealous. Give them a job and they probably won't shred you couch.

>>2459448
They're sought after enough as pets to have a lot of the population bred into retardation by pet and show breeders, so while they will still display a lot of the traits they were bred for, the truly good ones will come from actual working lines and not the pet / show lines.

They're good dogs, very smart, and like to "work", whether it's catching a frisbee / ball, or herding kids. Some of them can be nippy, which can be problematic with kids since the kids think they're being attacked when the dogs are just instinctively "coaxing" the kids along via their herding drives.

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>>2459448
They are very smart and biddable, which can be as much a blessing as it is a curse.

They don't need any more exercise than your typical fit breed of dog, and in fact can be detrimental if you go in thinking they need obscene amounts of exercise. What they do need, is mental engagement, though again within reason.

They do indeed have an "off switch", though it may have to be taught.

They are good dogs, but it's imperative you do your research, and acquire them from reputable breeders (bred for working).

Here's my guy

>>2459448
Smarter than the average american.

>>2459609
This.

Beautiful dog, by the way. What coat coloration is he?

>>2459448
I had one for seven years or so - got her when she was about 5 and I think she was 12 when she died. Whole family loved her and we got another collie a year or two after she died, who is now like 2 and a half I think.

Really awesome dogs. We got girls both times because they tend to be a bit more chilled out than the boys. Both were/are happy with a 1-2 hour walk every day, the younger one we have now tends to run around a lot more during the walk though

>>2459609
>What they do need is mental engagement
This 100%
One thing I've seen in both dogs is that they love being around people and will only get destructive if left alone for longer periods, even if they've had a lot of exercise that day. They definitely chill out way more as they get older though

>>2459448
my gf has one and he always looks at me condescendingly all the time. What the fuck is their problem?

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>>2459674
He's a Blue Merle

>>2459797
They do tend to stare at and/or stalk things they like (which can get them in trouble with other dogs sometimes) and it can be a little unnerving. I think it's just their face.

Border collies are amazing. I miss mine so much.

>>2459797
>he always looks at me condescendingly all the time.

he's probably judging you for your dirty thoughts and your procrastinating of important things all the time

>>2459812
Looks more wolf than those meme huskies of wolfboos

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wtf stay away from that poor snek

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Good, there's already a BC thread.
There's these breeder I found that has this puppy for sale. How does it look?

>>2459860
bye bye snek

>>2460117
Forget how the dogs look, does this breeder do genetic testing? Specifically for border collies, hip dysplasia, deafness, Collie Eye Anomaly, CL, and TNS should be screened for.

>>2460122
They said the parents were 100% disease free since they worked with the Kennel Club so the dogs were regularly checked by them.
I did send an email to the Kennel Club and ask them if they did require all their registered dog to be disease free but they did't reply yet.

>>2459448
>How smart are these guys for real?

Smartest dog I have ever met by far. It starts to get uncanny at times. They're basically little children.

>And how much exercise to they really need?

All-the-time sort of exercise. My BC needs constant stimulation to keep her mind and body busy.

>Is it true they never turn off?

My BC will constantly try to boss the other dogs around and herd them. She won't stop when she gets into this mode, which she does all the time, and gets very aggressive at times. She will want to play ball with you or jump on top of you with glee nonstop when she interacts with people.

She's very neurotic and extremely emotionally expressive.

>Who has experience with them?

I've had years of experience with my family's BC.

>>2460125
No. That's not good enough because "kennel club" means nothing, there's plenty out there with no standards at all and only exist to help breeders sell subpar puppies. If they don't actually do genetic screening and are willing to show you the results, pick another breeder.

>>2460133
Ok man, thanks for the warning. I've look just about every breeder here (I live in a very small country) and it looks like none of them are THAT good to even do genetic testing.
But I don't want to get a dog that will *probably* get very sick later either. Most of them are bred for work so that's good at least I guess.
This dog looked cute and the parents look good so I was very tempted. Also I liked the fact that it's old enough that it already got all its shots so I could already take it out and not fear that it might catch some nasty virus.

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I own a Collie Shepherd mix. She is an escape artist. She escaped for 10 hours on Thursday and freaked me out. They can be pretty smart. Mine is 12 and she tends to act like a 5 or 6 year old.

my girl adored agility classes and 3/4 hour walks like nothing else on earth. i taught her all sorts of tricks, she picked up things so quickly. they are so fucking bright op if you've never had a dog before, get another breed. not for the inexperienced owner or somebody lacking time and/or energy.

>>2460211
How many days a week did you take her to agility classes?

>>2460122
MDR1 gene testing is important for collies too

>>2460143
Send a message to the breeder and ask if the parents have had any health testing done. If so, they should be willing to provide you the results.

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>>2460286
I asked them if the parents were genetically tested for any diseases and they basically gave me a very long response saying they had great instinct, they were championship dogs, etc and finally that since they worked and were registered with the national Kennel Club they had to be disease free to be allowed to breed...
From what I read on their website, the Kennel Club only requires Hip dysplasia radiology on the German Shepherd for the Herding group to be provided before allowing them to be bred.
I'm tempted because the dog is cute and has all its shots, also I was sent some videos and he seems chill af. But I don't appreciate being lied to.

>>2460300
Lol no.
Don't get a dog from those folks. Anything they've told you is BS.

Instead, look into finding your local (Or closest) stock dog/herding club or find out where/when trials are taking place and go there. Talk to some handlers about their dogs, and try to get them to point you in the right direction for some pups.

Alternatively, join a good border collie forum, and lurk/make inqueries there.

Stay away from conformation breeders, those aren't the dogs you want. Be wary of those who dual register their dogs in both conformation and work registries as well.

Do not fall into the trap of falling in love with the first pretty face you see. All BCs are adorable, and there will always be chill individuals with health testing done, papers, and shots. Take your time.

Also, consider looking for a local BC rescue group. They will often have perfectly good dogs (and puppies too) worth considering!

>>2460300
Yeah, sounds like they were beating about the bush and trying to mislead you but not actually answer your question. If the parents had health testing done, they would tell you.

I would consider hip screening and MDR1 gene tests to be bare minimum for working collie breeds.

The pup is VERY cute but I wouldn't buy from those people. They sound shady and dishonest.

>>2460309
>>2460314
Thanks for the insight. I've wanted a BC for years and I can wait longer for the right one.

>>2460300
Two disease free dogs could still each carry the wrong genes and have diseased kids together, Anon. That's why you need genetic testing.

>>2460314
>>2460325
Why not just pay for the MDR1 gene testing an ask the owners to knock the price of that off the dog if it A-ok if it comes back positive get the owner to reimburse you for doing the deed, WIN WIN.

>>2459448
Seriously considering adopting if I can't find a breeder with gene testing, it's coming up to winter and I do shorter hours where I work which means more time with doggo I'll probably spend 5 hours max at work, I can walk a good 7-8 miles in a go with literally no difficulty, and there's a big fucking park near where I live for Frisbee and fetch, only problem is I'm paranoid about the BC chewing wires or my mattress and I don't want to leave him/her in a cage or one room all day, anyone got any suggestions?

>>2460488
Same here anon, are you me?

Who here actually knows and has experience with these dogs for working? I assume everyone on /an/ just owns them as family pets.

I want to know the difference between the Border Collie, English Shepherd and Australian Shepherd. They're all cousins of each other, but all are separate breeds. What are the differences?

>>2460485
The dog is 200usd right now, used to be 400usd but since it's the last one they're selling him cheap. I'm not sure how much the test would cost but I don't think it would be that cheap.

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>>2460658
200 sounds way too cheap for a working dog from a good line, honestly.

>>2460662
I know the father comes from a good line. Actually the breeder was my anatomy teacher when I was studying Veterinary (dropped.) But the mother is theirs.

>>2460662
Really? Most actual ranchers don't care about the money and do it for continuing the breed and keeping those good traits going. The money isn't important.
A couple hundred seems pretty normal compared to the $1500 """"breeders"""" are asking for these batshit retarded poodle crosses that are all the rage right now.

>>2460662
Actually, it sounds pretty fair for a typical working dog, at least around here.

Aside from conformation show lines (or bybs), you won't see outrageous prices for this breed.
The exception being already trained, titled (or having titled parents) proven trial dogs that can go for as much as a car.

>>2460488
You sound like you're gonna be a good owner for a BC, but I'd just like to point out that they shouldn't be doing high impact directed excercise like fetch, frisbee or walking for miles and miles until their growth plates have closed (just like all dogs).

Also, unless you can find someone to keep an eye on him when you're away, or afford to keep him in daycare while you work, your options are limited. Not all BCs are the same; some will be destructive, some won't. If you'll end up with a chewer, I highly recommend looking into crating. It's really not bad or cruel, if done correctly.

>>2460639
They are very similar breeds, but there are subtle differences.

Out of the three, border collies have the leanest, slightest build. Australian shepherds are more stocky in build. English Shepherds are usually between the two.

Both border collies and Aussies carry for merle coat pattern; English Shepherds don't.

English Shepherds have a more upright, loose-eyed herding style vs. border collies have that intense stare and "crawl." I'm not sure where Aussies fit in here, but I think their herding style is more similar to that of the English Shepherd.

English Shepherds are not just herding dogs but also all-around farm/working dogs, so they tend to be a bit more versatile/"jack of all trades" type. They are often used for working all types of stock, from cows to chickens, and can also be used as hunting dogs, etc.

Border collies are usually more intense than the other two, and I'd say more specialized towards herding. Although, all three breeds are herding breeds of course.

All three breeds tend to be "velcro" dogs--very much like to stick with their owner. In my experience English Shepherds are more "shadows" to their owners than the other two, but all three are pretty handler-oriented, and obviously the extent depends on the individual.

They are very similar breeds for sure, and I think which one is "best" just comes down to personal preference. I will say, because Aussies have become so popular (border collies too, to an extent,) many of them have had their original "purpose" become not as important (in favor of catering towards show/conformation breeding and appealing to the general public,) whereas the ES is less-known and so it basically still bred only for work. So if you go for an Aussie or BC, make sure to look into ones bred for work/sport instead of ones bred for show/conformation.

>>2460485
>>2460658
MDR1 test is $60 for one dog, you'd want to test both parents so that's $120, and ordering the test, having it shipped, shipping it back to the lab, and getting results can take several weeks.

Besides, you really want hip screening done on both parents as well. I'm not sure how much that costs but my guess is it's not cheap, and it involves getting x-rays for both parents.

Blump