Animal Training

it can be. i don't believe for a second that most circuses train their animals "humanely". a wild animal will be less motivated by food than fear of the humans jabbing it with sharp things if it doesn't do a certain action.

i don't believe animals enjoy being in shows either. loud, flashing lights, enclosed environment. stressful. thankfully animal circuses in developed worlds are seen as tacky and lame these days, and they struggle a lot. third world? another story. just like zoos.

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>>2418385
Depends on the animal and the training.

Domesticated animals aren't hard to train or keep in captivity. That's why they are domesticated. For this reason I don't mind things like trained dogs, horses, and pet birds. Many of them are even adopted from shelters and they make a point of telling you so. As long as they aren't made to do anything extreme and are handled with love, it's OK.

If a wild animal is being trained just to sit still or run on cue, that's not so bad in general. These basic "tricks" are how zoos can show off animals like wolves or falcons. They aren't doing anything especially complex or un-natural.

Now, the un-natural stuff is bad. Often the motions are ones the animal shouldn't be doing and can injure them over time even if the training is not cruel. For example, a bear on a bicycle. That's not natural or healthy for the bear! And then there's the dubious training methods.

Yes it is, one of the only things PETA is right about

>>2418436
>If a wild animal is being trained just to sit still or run on cue, that's not so bad in general. These basic "tricks" are how zoos can show off animals like wolves or falcons. They aren't doing anything especially complex or un-natural.
Not just show them off, but help them too. It's easy to train an elephant to lift a paw through a cage so he can show it to a caretaker or vet, or to open his mouth wide, same with a bunch of the more peaceful/tameable animals.
Don't need pointy sticks and prodding either, just treats.

I was asking because I am always skeptical about anything PETA does. Are they any works, papers or books to look at this subject?
I believe I found one so far but anymore can help. http://the-shg.org/Kiley_Worthington/index.htm#contents

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Although I think it depends on the species, I think some animals benefit from training, provided obviously that they are kept physically and mentally healthy, not abused, and given sufficient time and space to themselves between acts. A set training routine and variety of environments can prevent the kind of unhealthy stereotypical "zoochosis" behavior (like pacing or swaying back and forth) you see in under stimulated animals in some zoos and sanctuaries that don't receive sufficient enrichment.

Also it's useful in animal husbandry to prepare animals for necessary routine vet checkups and for transport and the like.

My concern with circuses is the amount of time the animals spend on the road venue to venue. I do see people's point with saying that transporting animals requires small spaces, and frequent transportation has them crated for maybe too much time. But I'm not sure how convinced I am how unhealthy that is.

Personally, I trust an animal trainer that has dedicated their career, time, money, and life to the care of their particular animal specialty before I trust some random protester on the street who hasn't studied or worked with that species before to know their shit about the species in question, whether it be someone who is employed by a circus or zoo or whatever.

I think a lot of people don't realize that there isn't a whole lot of money or fame or glory to be gained from animal training, so a trainer is sometimes involved in it out of a sense of passion for the species, sometimes in educational efforts to promote species conservation.

>>2418575
I hate to link to tumblr while I'm on 4chan, but this blog seems very informed and well sourced, and has started talking a little about the recent ringling tiger trainer controversy and animal training, lately. If you shoot then an ask they might direct you to good resources.

http://blog.whyanimalsdothething.com/

>>2418843
>Personally, I trust an animal trainer that has dedicated their career, time, money, and life to the care of their particular animal specialty before I trust some random protester on the street who hasn't studied or worked with that species before to know their shit about the species in question, whether it be someone who is employed by a circus or zoo or whatever.
That's terrible. You should question these professionals, not just accept their word.

I would say that animal training can easily be acceptable, as long as it is done with the safety and general well-being of the animal kept in mind. Positive reinforcement, not punishments, should be used whenever possible, and pain/fear should -absolutely- not come into play. The animal also should not be trained to do anything that would cause them direct harm, such as only ever walking bipedal when they should be quadrupedal, for example.

Plenty of training is perfectly benign, or even very important for the animal (see: teaching your pet to not run into the street or jump on strangers)

Circuses are a very difficult situation to make alright for animals, and in some cases it may not be possible. It isn't just the training that's an issue, but very often it's much much the circumstances the animal lives in that's a problem. Is there a way circuses could be redesigned so that they would be more-or-less issue free? Potentially, but they'd likely have to chose either becoming stationary, or not using a variety of animals.

>>2419527
Well of course I would compare their claims to that of other professionals in the field, and if something didn't mesh up, then I would consider looking into it and making some judgement based on data. But I think they still probably have a better understanding of their animals than some random putz that didn't even research how to take care of their own dog, if not for other reasons then simply because exotic animal owners and trainers are legally held to a high standard through regulations.