I dont use treats to train, what is the best way to start the

Take it to a vet.

>>2397279
>I am against treat training so would like to avoid it if I can.

Why?

>>2397301

Grew up with family owning dogs my whole life which were basically just kept on the property and in the house amongst the family as a security measure when my Dad was a policeman so they never underwent any more training than toileting, sit and recall.

When I was financially stable enough to get a dog I took it to obedience classes and did the whole bag of treats puppy school thing. The dog was basically an addict fixiated on food and not me as a handler, recall was abysmal as he was only after food and not working with me becuase of our bond.

Been treat free for about 8 months and the training has been so much easier and I feel like we are on the same page now.

>>2397314
I wouldn't compare my dog to a policeman's dog but I found through personal experience that there is no "one size fits all" training method. You use the treats to help the dog understand the desired behavior and once you are certain that the dog understands the command you administer corrections if the dog does not adhere to the command.

>Recall was abysmal as he was only after food and not working with me because of our bond

Recall cannot be trained without corrections, 10 times out of 10 that dog will choose to indulge in a new sensation rather than receive a treat or affection.

Sorry for veering off subject. Unfortunately I don't know much about scent training even though it's on my to-do list for training.

>>2397356

I use an e-collar or slip leash and the release of pressure to direct and reward. I spent weeks researching and reading though as the timing is absolutely critical.

>>2397356
I've never seen a dog whose only undergone "positive" training have an extremely strong recall. I had my pup taught the same way K9s were, trained him to stay near me in the woods as well.