Speculative zoology

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What if Chronoperates (Early Palaeocene) was a non mammalian synapsid?

what if birbs got big benises

>>2366192
Ostriches already exist

>>2366192
Google duck dick

>>2366503
oh

Very tasty topic.
Russia often has its own way, and finally Russian edition of Dougal Dixon's "After Man..." is published this April.

>>2367259
Is there any russian exclusive spec bio?

>>2367225
benis in bagina

but great drawing bro

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>>2367351
Google "Blue Chimera" page (I can't paste address of Russian site here) and look there. I gathered some links to various projects and sources there.

>>2365983
What if a group of hominids developed retractable claws?

I respect W. D. Barlow's art, but what about any original content?
I added new part to Neocene project - "Year of traveller goose", about animals of North America (Russian language).

>>2368069
Yeah I don't you're going to have much luck here trying to discuss stuff that isn't in english.

>>2368091
I hope I know English good enough to discuss anything here. And speculative biology is a topic of my interest. Of course, I know not all people here know Russian to discuss this part of the project. And here I just want to find people having an interest to speculative biology.
I translated D. dixon's books into Russian, and one book is officially published now. Sometimes I think it would be nice to publish Barlow's gem too. Maybe, someday...

I'm going to use this opportunity to ask a couple of questions pertaining to the subject:

For aquatic mammals, what are the advantages and disadvantages of blubber vs fur for thermal insulation?
Would underwater animals adapted to cold regions overheat if they traveled into warmer waters?

Are there any close analogues to a snake's scales in mammals?

Are there any rules of thumb for what is necessary for an animal to fly—e.g. how heavy it may be relative to its wingspan, or how aerodynamic its body needs to be?

What primarily affects the size of an animal (besides an evolutionary arms race between herbivores and their predators), and why can herbivores and other grazers (like whales) get to huge besides their poor diet? Efficiency of movement?

Anyone have any links to sites that discuss such topics in general?

>>2368125
Oh so you wrote the translation of dixons stuff.
Official or unofficial?
Unfortunately the russian spec bio community seems a lot more lively than the english one.
Most projects are either dead or long since finished.
The reason I made this thread is to hope to bring some life back into it.

>>2368137
>what are the advantages and disadvantages of blubber vs fur for thermal insulation
Blubber is better at trapping heat underwater while fur is better at it above water.
This can be seen from the fact that mammals that spend their entire lives in the water like cetaceans and sirenians only use blubber for insulation while pinnipeds who spends some of their lives out of the water still have fur.
>Would underwater animals adapted to cold regions overheat if they traveled into warmer waters
The ones we have right now don't so I don't think they would.
>snake's scales in mammals
There are only 3 mammals with scales.
Pangolins, rat kangaroos and anomalures so take your pick over which you think are closest.
>rules of thumb for what is necessary for an animal to fly
Actually yes.
For any flying animal of a decent size a good rule of thumb is that their wingspan will be 3 times their body length.
>why can herbivores and other grazers get to huge besides their poor diet
Their poor diet is exactly why they grew to their huge size.
When you look at these huge creatures like whales or sauropods you might notice their largest organ is their stomach.
Thats because their diet has such a low calorie count by weight so they have to eat huge amounts of it in order to get proper nutrition.
>Anyone have any links to sites that discuss such topics in general
http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/index/
Warning that these sites are kinda dead.
sivatherium narod ru (Add in dots on the spaces)
Russian site that sometimes has english versions of it's stuff.

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>>2368162
Thanks a lot Anon, these answers are great!

>>2368139
This year an official edition of "After Man..." is published in Russia. Corrected a little compared to previous editions.

Maybe, our speculative biology projects are younger than yours? I remember the wave of projects and forums on spec bio appeared after "The Future is Wild" series on Animal Planet channel. And now the most part of them seems to be dead. It looks as if the idea has a kind of life cycle, and needs to be fed on new ideas and insights. The new fresh idea is needed to burn the flame of imagination. Any new Dixon's book, for example, or so on.

As I know, one idea is still poorly developed in spec bio. It is the world without Permian-Triassic extinction. Just imagine the world where synapsids rule, and dinosauroids inhabit only marginal habitats. Lots of theromorph "bats" in air, false "whales" instead of marine reptiles in seas. It would be interesting world, and the K-T event may have quite different look in this case.

>>2368137
>Are there any rules of thumb for what is necessary for an animal to fly—e.g. how heavy it may be relative to its wingspan, or how aerodynamic its body needs to be?

If we are talking about Earth animals, just look at fossil and modern flying species. I say in these cases that the past hides the key to the future. The Mother Nature had a great lot of experiments and you can conclude the abilities of Earth lifeforms from the studying of fossil and modern lifeforms.

>What primarily affects the size of an animal (besides an evolutionary arms race between herbivores and their predators), and why can herbivores and other grazers (like whales) get to huge besides their poor diet? Efficiency of movement?

Remember about physics. Read about the physiology of Godzilla in Darren Naish's articles to understand what I mean.
Then, the ratio between length, mass and body surface is important also.

I've had an idea for an ocean planet for a while.

>star is middle aged and not tossing too much dangerous radiation at the planet
>2 small bolo orbit moons
>slightly less dense than Earth
>denser atmosphere (unbreathable, but you could use a mask and be fine at sea level for a short while)
>large portion of the surface is covered in water
>many islands and main archipelago continents cover about as much surface as the Americas, and form a slight S shape with most of it running along the equator
>overall hot temperatures cause constant strong winds and storms
>hardly any ice caps

Most animals here lived aeons in the oceans, and many adapted a form of jet propulsion that allowed them to live in the air. Their stiff cartilaginous skeletons didn't allow for much in the way of flexible movement, but many species adapted. It wasn't until later that the continents appeared and many creatures adapted to live on them after "plants" took over, it was a much faster than what Earth went through. Eyes are common and tend to be made of a crystal like structure that is smooth in most species, though few have developed strange rigid spheroids.

>>2368522
>Just imagine the world where synapsids rule
You mean like the one we have right now? :P
>It is the world without Permian-Triassic extinction
Yeah the reason for that is the farther you go back in time the harder it becomes to make a full fledged timeline just because you have more work to do.
Plus there are 2 mass extictions that predate the permian, the devonian and the ordovician, that get even less attention because they would be even harder.

>>2368633
>You mean like the one we have right now? :P
Of course, no, I mean the world of Mesozoic natural conditions dominated by groups of non-mammalian synapsids of Permian origin.
Hmmmm... Non-mammalian whales...
And marine amphibians descended from Permian eryopoids also.

>>2366070
That would be cool, although if it was a tritylodontid it was doomed since the mid Cretaceous. Competiton from multituberculates and small cimolestans was only the final nail on its coffin.

>>2367224
Cool drawing. Are those holocephalians?

>>2367672
Interesting. It shouldn't happen anytime soon, mostly because they would need to get a predator niche. For this to happen, there shouldn't be another efficient ambush predator around (primates would become more likely an ambush predator because of their low stamina, Homo sapiens being a notable exception), which means no felids, but this guys are common around all areas inhabited by non human hominids.

>>2368654
Probably the point in time you would want to analyze is the late triassic. The early triassic Pangaea was filled with synapsids everywhere.

Also, Eryopoids became extinct in the permian extinction. Stereospondyls would have taken the niches of the now non-existant crocodiles, dicynodonts would have taken the grazer niches instead of the hadrosaurids, sauropods and whatnot, the stars of this scenario would probably be the cynodonts, which would have taken a wide variety of niches, and would have driven therocephalians to extinction by the jurassic anyways.
With probably a few exceptions, cynognathians would have taken the niches otherwise taken by the big theropods and probainognathians would have taken the same niches they did, in adition to the small theropod niches, with probably a big variety of small flying probainognathians.

>>2366486
What's that supposed to be?

>>2367761
>>2367763
>>2367765
>>2367767
>>2367768
Fibally got my own copy of Expedition for Christmas this year, I've never been happier

>>2369152
In Russia there is an idiom "toad is throttling" to say somebody is envious of something. It's about me now. Lucky you.

>>2369036
And what about the whole timespan of non-dinosaurian Mesozoic?
How big can theromorph reptile grow? Indicothere-sized or even larger?

>>2369320
The herbivores would probably get larger than Indricotherium because of huge conifer jungles in the jurassic would allow to sustain bigger herbivores than ordovician's caducifolious forests. The K-Pg extinction should have taken out all these big therapsids though.

>>2369358
I think you're being too cautious on the sizes.
Therapsids may be mammal like but they're not mammals and don't necessarily suffer from the same size constraints that mammals do.
I'd say they'd be able to rival the largest of the sauropods.

>>2369358
>ordovician
Meant oligocene

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anybody know any websites that would help with getting to learn how to draw animals? i have a lot of good ideas for realistic xenobilogy but i dont know how to draw

>>2369679
http://how2drawanimals.com/
Alternatively make a thread on /ic/ asking about it.

I want to pepper a low-fantasy setting with the occasional fictional animal (mostly derivatives of existing or extinct species)—without designing the setting around them, just being able to add them if I get an idea I like enough to flesh out. What do I need to keep in mind to make sure these creatures make sense in ecosystems that otherwise default to our Earth's?

The fictional creatures would have to replace any IRL species that occupy the same ecological niches, of course, and I would have to make sure that there are no other animals around that do things more efficiently and successfully than them. If they play an important role in the food chain, I'd have to consider how some immediate prey and predators would adapt to them, too. Any other considerations?
Having a ton of islands and relatively isolated continents like IRL Australia would probably also allow me some additional leeway.

Bump to the topic.
And plants in speculative biology are the most neglected ones. Even the invertebrates are more numerous compared to plants. But plant life determines the appearance of fauna.

>>2371334
Well, i think that plants are so well adapted to their niches and their roles are so well defined that they will thrive in an almost equal manner in much cases.
Taking the last case as an example, the jurassic would be filled with gymnoesperm jungles whether dinosaurs or synapsids are the dominant tetrapods.
Probably the biggest exception to this rule is the coevolution of angioesperms alongside hymenopterans, which 'what if they didn't exist' scenario would make an interesting case to theorize about.

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>>2370207
I feel like diplocaulus shrunk down to this size or smaller would fare pretty well.

>>2370207
One thing I like to do is take some extinct species (usually the weird ones) and try to imagine how they would evolve if they survived to the modern day.
So just imagine modern day sea scorpions for example.

>>2371344
Whats wrong with it's head?

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>>2372260
Nobody knows, it isn't alive to ask.

>>2372288
THICC
H
I
C
C

What would it take to get arthropods to be as big as they were during the carboniferous again?

>>2372554
A higher percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere

So these are apparently twice the height of the Statue of Liberty.

They also have mouths on the bottom of their feet so they eat whatever they step on.

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>>2372772

Forgot pic

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I can see cats evolving skin flaps like a sugar glider or a flying squirrel

Which animals are most likely to survive the anthropocene mass extinction?

>>2373578
Mammals:
Raccoons, squirrels (not all), feral pigs, cats, maybe, dogs. Also Virginian opossum, brushtail possum. Murine rodents, hamsters, any of New World caviomorph rodents. Primitive breeds of sheeps and goats. Weasels, of course, and part of civet family carnivores. Part of bats, of course.

Birds:
Pigeons, corvid birds, most common finches, tomtits and allies, starlings. Monk parakeets and budgerigars also.

Freshwater fishes:
Snakeheads, ost part of cyprinid family, perches, centrarchids, gouramis and other anabantids. Some characid fishes, of course (like Astyanax), poecilias and gambusia, guppy. Amur sleeper - the really immortal fish. Also pikes and sticklebacks...

And these are vertebrates only. And among invertebrates... So, think yourself.
First of all, you would see among survivors easily adapting forms and domestic animals easily going wild (less dependant on people). And least successful survivors are strictly specialized forms. Then, large forms and ones having long life cycle have lesser chances to survive. These are some clues. Try to estimate the chances of survival yourself.

>>2373768
We'd also probably still have snakes and crocs too.

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So I've been developing an idea that I don't think anyone has thought of yet.
Antarctica split off from australia about 40 myr ago but we know from fossilized leaves that antarctica could support nothofagus trees until about 3 myr.
Unfortunately while we know about what kind of plants antarctica had during this period we know almost nothing about what kind of animals lived there.
Of course we have a pretty good guess that since antarctica split off from australia that the dominant species living there would have been marsupials.
Also may have had large solely land dwelling penguins or other bird species.
Beyond this I'm kinda stumped about the specifics of what might have been possible during this unknown period.
Any ideas?

>>2373909
Snakes - of course. Not all, but yes. Also withlizards and a part of turtles. As for crocs, they are top predators in ecosystems, and their position is rather precarious due to overhunting and the destruction of habitats.
Also amphibians would survive, except for local endemics and the part of rainforest species. For example, anything like cane toad.

>>2374061
Migratory geese and ducks, plenty of passerines of South American origin. Tracks of large flightless birds are known from Eocene of Seymour Island. Also bones of astrapotherium Antharctodon sobrali are known. So, any relic monotremes are possible.

Maybe, Stephen Baxter in his "Evolution" had been too extreme in his fantasies, but you may like this book - at least one part of it.

>>2374138
>Tracks of large flightless birds are known from Eocene of Seymour Island. Also bones of astrapotherium Antharctodon sobrali are known
Thanks for pointing me towards seymour island but can I get a source on these 2 claims.
I can't find anything about large flightless bird tracks on seymour island and astrapotherium antharctodon sobrali doesn't seem to exist as far as i can tell.
You also left out that polydolopidae, didelphimorphia, microbiotheria and the south american gondwanatheria fossils have been found on seymour island.

>>2374518
Oh, maybe, I had been wrong with tracks, but here it is:
http://www.academia.edu/25028665/Ratite_bird_from_the_Paleogene_La_Meseta_Formation_Seymour_Island_Antarctica
5 minutes of search in Yandex.
And here it is something about Antharctodon sobrali:
http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/bitstream/handle/2246/6118/N3718.pdf

>>2372260
Probably really sensitive receptors of some kind, like a hammerhead.

>>2372772
Don't forget their top half is a bit hollow and they most likely retain the gaseous bladders that their young use for flight to help keep their "heads" supported, while most of their mass is in their legs and torso.


I do wonder what the hell goes on in their openings that the young fly through that re-energizes them?

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>>2373578
Future Evolution touches on that idea, though humans are still around when these species are around.

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>>2374637

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>>2374639

I think Ward's book is more scientifically related compared to Dixon's one.

>>2374622
>5 minutes of search in Yandex
God damn you and your russian websites!
But thanks for showing me your sources.
Can you find another one for the bird tracks that doesn't make make you sign up?
I found this website that mentions large bird tracks on south shetland isles.
https://www.nsf.gov/geo/plr/antarct/ajus/nsf9858/nsf9858h/ch5.htm

>http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/bitstream/handle/2246/6118/N3718.pdf
Interesting.
I didn't think there would be much in the way of large plancental mammals on antarctica.
I also don't know why it's impossible to find this stuff with google.

>>2374695
http://newfreeebook.com/Frozen-in-Time-Prehistoric-Life-in-Antarctica.html
I hope this book will be interesting for you.

>>2374703
Info about flightless birds footprints in Antarctica is from this book! Just checked it and found. Not Seymour, but King George Island and Oligocene epoch, but there is even a photo there.

>>2374703
>>2374706
>gotta sign up by giving my credit card info to read it
No thanks

>>2374748
http://magnetfox.com/download/5161028/frozen-in-time-prehistoric-life-in-antarctica-pdf
Torrent link here.
http://omskgidro.r u/dl/frozen-in-time-prehistoric-life-in-antarctica
Direct link to PDF download here. Just delete space between "r" and "u".
All people must help each other.

>>2374824
Thank you very much.
This is exactly what I was looking for.
I'll see what I can come up with in a few days.

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>>2374942
I think it's a great book for you. In Russia not as many educational books like this one are published, as in Europe and USA, and sometimes I feel somethhing like an envy. Glad you like this book.
IMHO, it's good to share book copies for free, at least when all paper books are sold. I think copyright laws are too strict relatively to educational books. Of course, commercial literature may be copyrighted for as long time, as copyrighters want. But educational literature is an exception here - knowledge must belong to all people.

Some help is needed.
Preparing the new chapter for the Neocene project, I need any ideas for the name of the small insect-eating descendant of introduced guppy from Hindustan. Name connected to Indian mythology or culture is preferred.

>>2367224
>>2367225
>>2367231
awful

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>>2371344
>>2372288
These are outdated.

>>2375781
You could call it the Bodo.
It's the name of a tribe in assam province that eats a lot of bugs.

>>2375974
Sounds rather strange. What about something non-human?

What if cats are bipedals?

>>2376083
They would look like woolly raptors.

>>2376082
You can call call it arunasura's salvation or something like that.
Shes a demon from hindu mythology that got stung to death by bees.

>>2365983

Any drawfags ITT?

I imagine that the descendants of domestic cattle will become the next major megafauna when humans either go extinct or move to space.

"Colossalo" would be 40 foot tall 200 ton walking mountains with two enormous 30 foot long jousting tusks protruding from their backs, facing forward for fighting each other.

>>2376896
And what about the limits of bone durability?
It is quite easy to invent any number of fictitious animals and plants. But there is even harder work neglected too often - to prove the opportunity of the appearing of such creature. You must analyze the possible survivors, their limitations in directions of evolution, and possible conditions of their evolution. And only then you may think about possible appearance of the futuristic species.
First of all you must think not about the coolnes of the invented species, but about the factors having an influence to its appearance.

>>2376896
I don't think domestic cattle would survive in the wild without humans to protect them.
Well not outside a tiny island with no predators on it at least.

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>>2376896
fuck it

>>2377168
looks cool

>>2376896
I think bears will replace humans as the apex species.

>>2377168
Picture may seem nice, but author of the idea must explain:
1) The evolutionary advantages of such location of horns (?)
2) The organs which will change to give such stuctures. Yes, evolution usually takes and changes the existing structure rather than invents something new from scratch.
3) The evolutionary advantage of all previous stages of development of such structures for the transitional forms between cattle and your creepy critter.

>>2377532
Actually i can see a case for horns growing on the neck.
Ambush predators, like felids, tend to go for the neck when attacking a bovid, so making their life harder makes sense. Also growing horns at an earlier age so young fellas wouldn't be so vulnerable.

But i cannot make a case for the horns growing there.

Is this considered sci fi? Can't wait for Alien Covenant. Prometheus also has speculative evolution. I love it.

>>2377168

fuck yes

got it almost perfect

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>>2376896
>>2377168

>>2377942

that's mildly disturbing

>>2377558
It is simplier to make neck skin thick and dense. No need for horns. Also horns are first of all tournament device, not a protective one.

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>>2377964
>I think bulldogs and pugs are really cute. It must be their faces. They are so expressive and human-like

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>>2377964
You think THAT'S disturbing, do you?

>>2374639
How does the obese pig survive?

>>2378017
In book this obese form is named as engineered form. It's just an example of artifically made variation of the animal.

>>2377942

your drawing skills reek

>>2378512

wow, rude

>>2378512
reek of talent

>>2377942

dafuq is with that head?

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>>2377989
>An hominid parasite which also happens to be an hominid.
That's fucking hilarious and awesome, they probably evolved from today's hominid hominid parasites: non-working 40 year old neckbeards that live in their mom's basement, such as myself.
>tfw when your descendants get to be cool parasites
>tfw when you won't get descendants

>>2377942
>doesn't afraid of anybody especially those jerks in gym class

>>2377974
Did it survive?

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I was actually given the task to create a species that survive perfectly in a city/urban environment by my college biology teacher as a work assignment.
Here is the result; A small omnivorous mammal with patterend fur (to break up it's outline in the shadows), a head-and-tail look alike defence (complete with dense loose fur around its tail, just in case) and intensely strong stomach acid (rivalling that of a vulture's). It is non-violent towards larger animals (such as humans) and is relatively non-destructive, it carries no diseases that affect humans, doesn't really smell and it's only defences are to bite, scratch, shriek and vomit on whatever caught it. It is normally most active at dusk and dawn, having large eyes to help it see in the gloom and long whiskers to aid in finding its way around the bins it usually feeds within. Very very acrobatic, scurrying up drainpipes, trees and even the walls of buildings to get a better view or to flee from predators.

As for sociallity; very social, often living in family groups like that of a meerkat's, having one breeding pair and multiple family members to help care for the family, also like meerkats they'll have a lookout whenever the others are feeding. The breeding pair will have around about 4-5 kits every 2 months (as it only takes that time for the previous litter to mature).

Again, bringing up them being non-violent, non-destructive and not giving off a nasty smell, they'll usually make their drews in dry, low lying places such as; under houses, in unused sheds or playhouses and in small burrows they'll dig (if they can).

Can anyone suggest a common and scientific name for these little critters? It would really help because I suck at naming things.
(Also yes, I apologise for the drawing not being coloured but I imagine their belly/chin fur would be white and their head/back fur would either be dark grey or a chestnut brown colour.)

>>2380494
Fair enough, but why did you draw it in that neopets/pokémon cartoon style and not somehow more academically suitable?

>>2380494
>>2380513
Street chinchilla or city digger
Crepuscumys/Oryctomys homophylla

If it's a rodent or relative as it appears

>>2380513
yeah, sorry about that..
i'm a cartoonist you see and this is probably my most realistic art style (pretty pathetic i know)

>>2380575
thanks friend!
i suppose it kind of does look like a relative of the rodents doesn't it? plus its slightly smaller than a rabbit so i suppose it definitely could be..

>>2380494
What is it's closest relative?

>>2381085I would say it's closest relative would probably be a chinchilla, it being a similar size and stature. Also the fur on its tail is about as dense a chinchilla fur (but unlike the chinchilla its incredibly loose, it'll even pluck it out to line it's drew).

Do you lads reckon that if we humans wipe ourselves out then Chimpanzees might eventually evolve into hominid-like creatures?

>>2381085
Actually, they could possibly be a branch off of chinchillas..
evolved forms of abandoned pets perhaps???

>>2381168
I could imagine where most of the chimps stay in the forests but a curious minority of chimps start exploring human structures and inhabitating them, eventually diverging from the forest-chimp line.

>>2377942
>>2377168

I just realized that tusks in that configuration would be excellent for flipping an opponent over, where that opponent is then subject to goring.

>>2381168
I have trouble imagining something that would wipe out all humans but not all chimps.

>>2381296
Hm. Deadly plague maybe? Nuclear war?

Would dogs just become wolves again if people went extinct?

>>2381300
>Deadly plague
I know for a fact that most diseases that infect humans will also infect chimps.

>Nuclear war
Wouldn't even wipe out all humans let alone chimps.

>>2381308
Ever heard of dingos? Pretty much the same case, but with a little more diversity.

>>2377989
You never notice how fucking weird humans look compared to everything else on earth until you see these pictures. I wonder what animals think when they see us "what the fuck is that things?"

>>2381592
I always wonder what birds and other animals think cars and vehicles are. A weird rigid animal that only moves in straight lines? Or can they grasp the concept that they're artificial?

>>2380494
You drew a pokemon
Git gud fegghot

>>2381664
fuck you pokemon are rad

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>>2378017
By eating öats, of course.

>>2381642
No they think vehicles are animals because the concept of machine isnt in their brain, heck prehistoric human tribes in Papua New Guinea think airplanes are gods.

Can someone imagine a new skin covering for vertebrates?

We have scales, fur, feathers and slimy smooth skin. The first three are due to mutations in keratin scales. Most alien life in fiction tends to have smooth or pattern skin with no actual skin covering making them look mammalish.

I am curious what a new body covering would even look like.

>>2382424
Maybe armor plating like an armadillo?
Sure it's just modified hair but it's still no less different than scales to fur or feathers.

>>2380494
Invention of pokemons is not a speculative biology.
The main principle of spec biology is the following evolution rules and principles. And pokemons do not belong to it.

>>2382424
Maybe a series of tubes that weave together as the animal gestates?

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>>2382424
A skin that's a sponge-like foam would be good for insulating the animal on cold planets. Could be made out of something like keratin with millions of microscopic air pockets per square inch. Touching it would feel like squeezing a mushroom.

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Let's talk about how to make plants sapient
Would they need nervous system shoe-horned into them?

>>2383577
They'd at least need neurons

Is it at all possible for a jellyfish-like creature—i.e. semi-liquid, high water content, blobby—to retain its form and structure on land?

>>2382314

Holy fuck

I completely forgot about this meme.

Ok so what if the Maori never went to New Zealand and it was left as it was: A bird paradise island? Would Haast's eagles just keep in there or would part of their population migrate to Australia to hunt their largest fauna (emus, crocs, roos, maybe even people)? Would critically endangered species like kakapos and kiwis be abundant today?

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>>2384116
Brother could you spare some oats?
It's what I crave most. Had I some oats, I would spare them for you, but alas, farmer Joe forgot to give me some too.

>>2384031
Not without significant modification.

>>2383034
Now that would be surreal to see in nature, a spongy body covering.

>>2384149
Fuck you

>>2381308
No

>>2384149
Nice little rhyme

>>2384149
You may have

NO OATS

I see the commnts turn rather dumb. So, people, in Dougal Dixon's book there is one new group of mammals - predatory rats. I think if rats will survive after man, so weasels would do. And instead of predatory rat we'd see a new mustelid type. Or herpestid - in tropics. Mongoose is also well-adaptable creature.
Your thoughts?

>>2365983
Do you guys think a mixotroph animal could exist?
Mixotroph algae exists, meaning they get their energy both from the sun, and from eating.

Could an animal like this exist? Maybe it could stand still to conserve energy when food is scarce, and just feed of photosynthesis, then start moving about, hunting when food was available again.

>>2368538
Bad unoriginal ideas dude

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>>2369679
Give me your ideas and i can draw it for you.
Contact me. [email protected]

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>>2386064
>so weasels would do. And instead of predatory rat we'd see a new mustelid type. Or herpestid - in tropics.
Yeah but there are places where there are rats but no weasels/mongoose, ironically most of these places are tropical islands but also the southern cone of south america is completely devoid of weasels.
>Mongoose is also well-adaptable creature.
If you're still talking about becoming apex predators then this already happened o the mongooose once.
Just look up the fossa.

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>>2386102
Theres a type of sea slug, Elysia chlorotica, thats basically already one of those.

>>2386064
Mustelids could easily take over top predator niches.
Stuff I'd like to see (whether or not it'd be possible)
>4 foot long robust otter that hunts like crocs, but they use their forepaws like a cat, and live in colder climates.
>Skunk species that's the size of a medium sized dog and scavenges in small packs, and built to traverse long distances
>Black bear size raccoon (I mean they're like that anyway)
>Lots of weasel and stoat species gaining size and taking place of cats and dogs
>Jaguar like pine marten
>slightly larger wolverine


Rats and mice could become specialized scavengers and predators to small animals.

>>2386327
Raccoons aren't mustelids, but I can see them becoming bear-like.

>>2386310
dis thing steals chlorophill from algae, don't count

>>2386629
>Elysia chlorotica
I'ts pretty cool anyway! But it would be cooler if it synthezised chlorophyll by itself.

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>>2386113
http://sivatherium.narod ru/enfish.htm (dot instead of space) and other pages of Bestiary. Welcome and join our project!

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>>2386328
Here it is something like your idea from Neocene project - picture by fine artist Eugeny Hontor.

>>2386675
This is a work for super-virus! Only viruses can vector parts of genome between different groups of live organisms.

Could primates thrive in deciduous forest?

>>2386794
they already do

>>2386708
Yeah if you want to create a plantanimal yourself, true, but maybe there's a planet where animals evolved differently, and most animals are plants as well.

>>2365983
>If the non-avian dinos were never wiped out which one would've been most likely to evolve intelligence?

Definitely raptors. Predators hunting in groups puts a selective pressure on intelligence.

>>2387022
there's no evidence they hunted in groups though.

The Deinonychus/Tenontosaurus site would be good evidence except for the fact that all the dead raptors were eaten by other raptors. Which indicates they were probably also killed by other raptors.

which is the opposite of group hunting.

>>2386708
>Only viruses can vector parts of genome between different groups of live organisms.
Nope, they're not the only ones. I wish i could remember the names, but I know there are microbes that can steal DNA from other cells and there are plenty of them that can share DNA/RNA.

>>2368069
Is that you, Pavel?

>>2386802
I mean non hominids anon, and with the exception of Japanese macaques.

Roundhouse kick them to extinction

>>2387506
I am, yes.

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Could humans ever become something like this after some catastrophic disaster?

>>2375811
CHANGE IT BACK

>>2388035
The only thing humans become after a disaster are dead or cancerous. We could achieve it through thousands of years of selective breeding or genetic manipulation maybe.
It has my exact arms if you want to fuck, senpai.

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>>2372773
Such a stupid concept, but awesome looking.
I'm convinced it inspired metroid prime 2.

>>2373768
I think this only addresses the top of the food chain though. Lots is damage is being done to the bottom too, which will eventually work its way up. Ocean acidification is especially is terrifying to me.

>>2388094
That's why in my Neocene project I supposed the "plancton accident" leading to extinction of the most part of planctonic species of invertebrates and also of pelagic fishes and marine mammals.

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why no animals have evolved wheels
its much faster than legs

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>>2388379
Because legs work where wheels can't reach or grip. Not only that there has never been a case of any multicellular animal developing rotary axles in exchange for limbs.

Now unicellular life does have a little motor and whip that acts like a propeller called cilia or flagella.

>>2388371
>my Neocene project
Would you share what you got?

>>2388390
Look the "Blue Chimera" page (link above). Not all parts of the project are translated into English (it is originally made in Russian).

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>>2388426
You got some nice artwork for it.
Also why are all your artists named alexander?

>>2379496
You should try reading Ringworld, a Dyson ring several billon times bigger than earth, inhabited ONLY by Homo habilis descendants occupying all known ecological niches.

>>2383577
They have already, but its slow as fuck.

>>2386629
>>2386675
>>2386310
It still count, it hase stealed algal DNA need to run chloroplasts, in some million years it would be able to breed his own chloroplasts.

Also, some salamandrae do photosynthesis with algae living in their skin and eggs. Plant lices create energy from sun with carotenoides in their body and hornet's skin can create electricity from sunlight.

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>>2365983
A bresilian/french comics artist created simple but stuning plants and animals for his series.

http://www.dargaud.com/blog/mondes-aldebaran/

>>2366503
use duckdickgo insted

>>2388992
Oh, not all, of course. But Alexander Smyslov did the great amount of nice pictures for site.

>>2389199
Theres also alexander tartarinov

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>>2376083
>>2376137

>>2377532
>1) The evolutionary advantages of such location of horns (?)

Sexual selection via battles with other males, able to keep face out of the way and protect the neck.

>2) The organs which will change to give such structures. Yes, evolution usually takes and changes the existing structure rather than invents something new from scratch.

Modified jointed scapula.

>3) The evolutionary advantage of all previous stages of development of such structures for the transitional forms between cattle and your creepy critter.

Belted Galloway breed begin rubbing/pushing fights for male dominance. Eventually, a mutation causes a nodular bump to form on the scapula that allows slight advantage by increasing a bit of pain in the opponent allowing the nodular bumped animal to breed instead. It just goes on from there.

>>2389084
Humans use melanin to create in infinitesimally small amount of energy from sunlight.

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>>2388379
>>2388385
Already a thing, sorta.

>2,640rpm
>350km/h if it was the same size as a car tire

>>2377989
is this from the same author as the meme "there must be more to life"?

>>2389414
That more for escape, and the animal does not have much control on where it goes as it rolls down hill.
I know there are caterpillars and lizerds (and maybe salamanders) that do this to. Of course everyone knows about armadillos, pillbugs, and trilobites doing this for defense.

If any animal was to adapt an axle and wheel I'd have to go with dung beetles.

>>2389668
>If any animal was to adapt an axle and wheel I'd have to go with dung beetles.

Good one, but there's no axle since their legs are always pushing/flipping it along instead of having two in the center of the sides while the rest push.

I'd love to see art of a fully marine avian, such as an ovoviviparous penguin descendant which spends its entire life underwater.

>>2389384
No, no, no. Not Alexander, but Alexey.

>>2389822
The ability of vivipary is restricted for birds. At them embryo takes calcium for bones from eggshell. At squamates the stock of calcium is in yolk. That's why they easily pass to vivipary compared to archosaurians and birds.

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New chapter is added to Neocene project - "Big one and small ones" (Russian language) - about Nanditherium, its parasites and symbiotes.

Just keeping the topic afloat. Bump.

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Whats the best specbio fiction out right now?

>>2391386
Stephen Baxter's "Evolution" seems to be great. There are elements of cryptopaleontology, alternative evolution and futuristic evolution in this book. But it is strictly 18+.

>>2389639
Yes, both are from the book "Man After Man". It's from a series:

- The New Dinosaurs (Best)
- After Man (Okay)
- Man After Man (Worst)

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Has anyone here read Nemo Ramjet? You can find All Tomorrows and Snaiad online, All Tomorrows is about future evolution of mankind and Snaiad is just speculative evolution on an alien planet.

>>2391478
I think civilization as on the small scale crumbled too quickly to be realistic. It was nearly instant feral children and no civilization anywhere after the volcano. I think humans are far too clannish to let it devolve to that level. I think that mat be specifically because the author doesn't seem to have any children of his own and thus has more of an introverted outlook on things.

I mean it still could have reached the same endpoint of human evolution at the end of the book, but that one part of the events just seemed off.

>>2391569
I have.

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>>2391569
>speculative evolution

I'd like to see asymmetrical evolution. True asymmetry, not just symmetric animals that develop some asymmetry (like snails or fiddler crab).

>>2391581
It happens, but it's not common because symmetry is generally more advantageous.

>>2391592
Of course, but I'm trying to come up with a land dwelling creature that moves around and have it be truly asymmetrical. Quite an alien concept, more so than I initially thought.

>>2391593
Movement is assisted by symmetry. There's a good reason most asymmetrical organisms are sessile.

>>2391597
Well, I can come up with something mobile and have it be asymmetrical, but god damn, drawing it is nearly out of the question. Basically it is a sea sponge + Google's Deep Dream. Movement looks like amoeba, slime mold, etc. If an entire alien planet was based on that, it'd look like some crazy sea sponge landscape where the "animals" are like mobile sea sponge nightmares.

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>>2391607
>spaghetti + Google's Deep Dream.

mmmm bananas

>>2391593
High gravity. Land-crawler flounders.

>>2391569
hello /tg/

We need more shitty mspaint speculative biology

>50 million years from now, most of northern hemisphere frozen over
>these fuckers are apex predators that use their armored axe-shaped heads to ram through the thick ice to surface for air and ambush prey

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>>2392135

forgot pic like a dumbass

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>>2391578
How did you like him?

>>2391581
He has some stuff like that but as the other anon said it just isn't practical under any environment we know, before making an organism that's asymmetrical one would have to think of an environment where that is advantageous.

>>2391743
Hi! I'm not /tg/ but humanity is the best.

>>2392136
god i hate this

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>>2392135
>>2392136
Whilst the concept is kinda neat, that nomenclature is terrible.

Also I'd figure something like that would evolve out of Narwhals or Sperm whales, unless the blue whale is just there for "its so yuge xD" points.

>now for something as equally ridiculous

>>2392173

Yeah, I envisioned it as a decendant of modern sperm whales.

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Why did specbio fade out?

>>2392668
I think we need more interesting discussions here to keep this topic in top.

>>2392668
It's a very niche hobby, and takes a lot of thought to enjoy. Kind of like DnD.

>>2392136
>Princepus Dei Mare
Why is it so hard to understand binomial nomenclature and to look up Latin words?

>>2393028

Because you touch yourself at night.

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>>2393037
Tell me more

>>2391741
Flounders are symmetrical then later become partially asymmetrical.

>>2392140
The only known truly asymmetrical creature on earth are sea sponges.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/293094072/Wayne-Barlowe-Expedition-pdf#
Here a pdf for expedition.
You can also get the new dinosaurs and after man here as well.

>>2393157
Thanks for posting. I had forgot about a few of the species that I liked like the Finned Snapper, Mummy-Nest Flyer, or the module Scavangewing. Also forgot how massive a lot of the species are.

>>2393157
In "Alien Planet" movie Eosapien is shown as one having vision. So, as for me, I think the inhabitants of Darwin IV can develop secondary organs of vision. At the Earth starfish and scallop developed functional secondary eyes. And I think beasts of Darwin IV are able to the same evolutional trick if vision organs give them certain benefit.

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>>2365983
>which one would've been most likely to evolve intelligence?
The obvious candidate for such an evolutionary path is Troodon. You can Google "dinosauroid" for some pseudoscientific bs about 'em.

>>2393385
Zoologist Darren Naish had criticized this kind of "dinosauroid" a lot.

>>2393398
zoologists hate most of this stuff because evolution went the way it did for specific reasons and speculative zoology ignores those reasons.

>>2393417
This.
Don't get it wrong tho, they don't deliberately ignore them. Speculative aficionados need a ton of info about what's happening around the world at any given time. Info that they don't have.

Due this lack of info, you can make a really broad, short term prediction that wouldn't result very interesting, at best.

I don't understand how now, in relatively low oxygen conditions, the supposed largest animal (blue whale obviously) exists. 99.9% of organisms are extinct so how has this come about?

My best guess is that mammals only recently conquered the sea and that for whatever reason reptiles and invertebrates couldn't reach that kind of size. Meanwhile nothing on land could support it either.

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>>2393539
Because blue whale's have big hearts.

>>2393765
Very compassionate whales!

>>2393354
They have pits that sense ultra violet light. That's why they have still have bioluminescence. The Eosapien could have slightly better pits than most inhabitants, but really I think we saw how it senses it's environment with its sonar.

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>>2393385
Grampa please, we know better now. Besides, that humanoid was made around the peak popularity of UFOs and extraterrestrials.

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>>2393434
>Speculative aficionados need a ton of info about what's happening around the world at any given time. Info that they don't have.
this is the difference between the scientist and the science-fictionist.

Not to say one is better than the other, but scientists tend to look down on imagination without a solid grounding in reality. And of course nobody knows reality like they do.

>>2393539
vertebrates tend to get larger as oxygen decreases.

so do invertebrates in general, but both topics are well above /an/'s paygrade.

suffice it to say it has things to do with economy of scale and nutrient dilution due to increased plant productivity favoring grazers.

blue whales are of course grazers. All the biggest animals have been. This is why some paleontologists suggest that ginormous theropod dinosaurs were flesh grazers.

>>2393539
Also of course, Cope's Rule.

the amount of oxygen doesn't matter nearly as much as the length of stability of the environment. A relatively stable environment with harsh conditions and few resources almost invariably produces larger and larger animals.

>>2393910
They tend tend to get larger as oxygen increases, in reference to Invertebrates.

>>2393933
this is a common myth.

individuals get larger with more oxygen, but species become larger with less.

the largest arthropods of the Carboniferous lived during times of reduced oxygen.

>>2393951
Could you elaborate as to why this is the case?

>>2389084
The salamander species that does that is Ambystoma maculatum, if anyone cares to know.

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>>2372772
>They also have mouths on the bottom of their feet so they eat whatever they step on.

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>>2377974
>That face

>>2394014
Vizier Three did nothing wrong

>>2393961
>Could you elaborate as to why this is the case?
that was a bit vague, I made several statements in that post. I'll try:

>this is a common myth
this is because of a study finding that dragonflies exposed to elevated O2 atmospheres grew ~15% larger, indicating that O2 concentration was a limiting factor to growth. The authors of the study took that to mean O2 also limited evolution of size.
>individuals get larger with more oxygen, but species become larger with less.
O2 is indeed a limit to growth but not to evolution of growth. Giving more oxygen to a bug and making it bigger doesn't result in the evolution of bigger bugs any more than feeding you more sugar will result in the evolution of fatter humans. That is Lamarckism and it's NOT how evolution generally works.

also there are other limits to size than O2, for example most insects are smaller than the largest insects, so their size is not limited by O2, rather something else limits them. Even the dragonflies tested are far from the largest insects in existence today, so again their evolution of size cannot be limited by oxygen, something else limits them.
>the largest arthropods of the Carboniferous lived during times of reduced oxygen
for this one I refer you to the Wikipedia article on Meganeura-
>The presence of very large Meganeuridae with wing spans rivaling those of Meganeura during the Permian, when the oxygen content of the atmosphere was already much lower than in the Carboniferous, presented a problem to the oxygen-related explanations in the case of the giant dragonflies. However, despite the fact that meganeurids had the largest known wing spans, their bodies were not very large, being smaller than those of several living Coleoptera; therefore they were not true giant insects, only being giant in comparison with their living relatives.
this pattern shows up in most cases, the giant arthropod is found to be smaller than modern equivalents and/or to exist in times of reduced oxygen.

>>2393961
as to very specifically WHY Carboniferous arthropods got large, I prefer a few explanations:

1. they weren't large compared to modern equivalents, they're just well known.
2. Carboniferous arthropods were on average smaller than modern arthropods.
3. the handful of cases of gigantism were all in detrivores or detrivore-based food webs, indicating that lower O2 and higher CO2 was driving plant productivity and thus favoring grazers and detrivores and those that preyed on them.
4. CO2 feedbacks produced a very wet climate that was great for aquatic arthropods as well as insects with aquatic larvae.

>>2394014
YEERKS BTFO

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>>2372773
Ya know every time I saw that picture I thought of them as moving and facing a certain direction but now I think they could be moving/facing into the opposite. Which way are they moving?

>>2366486
>>2369045
DUDE
SPACE WEED
LMAO

>>2388035
>>2388083
Have you seen some of the mutations people experience in India?
Shits weird.

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Is there any way for arthropods to overcome the need to molt as a limiter on their max size?

>>2395395
I think no way for them. The molt seems to appear early in their evolution, and such mechanisms are quite stable. Ith is about the same as to grow the extra pair of legs/fins for vertebrates.

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>>2391581
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homalozoa
Echinoderms got pretty asymmetrical before they figured out radial symmetry.

>>2395526
I don't need them to get rid of molting I just need ways for it to not be such a limiter on their size.

>>2395809
if it helps any mammals, birds, and reptiles all molt. they found ways to do it without limiting size.

an internal skeleton would be the first step.

>>2395842
How exactly would arthropods evolve an internal skeleton?

>>2395875
Highly reinforced trachea branches that serve mechanical function, instead of respiratory?

>>2395875
They could do it like a kind of reverse hermit crab: stealing the bones of other creatures and wrapping their bodies around them

>>2396195
Theres no way any amount of evolution is going to turn arthropod trachea into bones.
They're nothing like vertebrate trachea.
Besides even if it could you really can't have an internal skeleton with how an insects respiratory system is set up.
Lastly what mechanical function would these theoretical trachea bones serve that isn't already adequately serviced by their exoskeleton?
>>2396206
How exactly do now boneless arthropods go about acquiring the bones of other organisms?
If they still have their exoskeletons why do they need bones from other organisms?
How would they envelop bones without dangerously exposing their organs?
How do they go about finding bones of the right size?
It's not like a hermit crab where they can grow into it, the bones either fit or they don't.

I think both you guys are way over complicating his question.
A much easier answer that at least works for social arthropods is to get other individuals to help each each other molt.

>>2394014
ANDALITE SCUM!

>>2395395
Maybe molting a section at a time and using their limbs to remove it, or they pull in their legs in, force water/air in between and crawl out?

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What bird could had evolved to be large enough to be domesticated and be ride by man?

>>2396928
the moa

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I just discovered this https://sites.google.com/site/worldofserina/home

What do you guys think of it?

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>>2396953
Humanity really did learn animal husbandry way too late in the game. Imagine all the cool shit we'd have domesticated if we knew how 100k+ years ago.

>>2396953
>>2397240
What about a bird that flies and that humans can ride?

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I've done some things here and there with a friend. Basically we took modern animals and replaced them with monster-versions/slightly modified or prehistoric ones like amphicyonids.

Pictures of intelligent insectoid/(sapien like?) Off branch of species

>>2381286
Thing is, animals that physically compete with each other for mates evolved to not kill each other when doing that, since that would just create needless risk.

>>2381308
They wouldn't become wolves in that they would somehow revert back to being the same species, but some dogs could evolve to fulfill the same ecological niche as wolves do (medium-sized pack predators) just as has already happened with feral dogs in real life.

>>2388035
I doubt it. Humans seem to be successful enough at changing their environment to suit us that we could probably endure any cataclysm which doesn't make us outright extinct without much changes.

>>2388379
Wheels don't work well in many conditions. As an example, Several Native American civilizations invented wheels but never used them for transportation because they were impractical for use in the mountains, hills, and dense forests where they lived. And even in flatter, more open terrain wheels are still near useless without man-made roads.

Mechanically, a wheel would have to be disconnected from the rest of the animal, which would make its formation and maintenance impossible without any veins, nerves, etc traveling to it. I think this problem could be solved though, if the wheel was the product of some sort of secretion rather than the flesh and bone of the animal.

Wheels also wouldn't be useful for much other than transportation, and very few animals use their legs exclusively for that. Cats scratch, dogs dig, lizards climb, horses kick, etc.

Finally, a partially formed wheel would only be a detriment in every scenario, so such a thing could never evolve no matter how practical fully-developed wheels would be.

>>2393910
>This is why some paleontologists suggest that ginormous theropod dinosaurs were flesh grazers.

What do you mean? Scavengers? I wouldn't think dead bodies would be a common enough food source to support huge animals like grass, leaves, or plankton do for others.

>>2393028

What would you rather name a 300 foot long sperm whale descendant with bony, segmented armor?

Could we have a whale that lived on land?

>>2381308
Most would die out due to all the genetic defects.

I remember in highschool there was a project where we had to give a dinosaur a mutation that would make sense to the environment and explain it. I however was not there the first day and my group relied on me for ideas. We gave a brontasaurus a watermelon tree that grew from its neck. Idk y or how but we passed

>>2397574
>what is Pakicetus

>>2397609
Doesn't count and not a whale.
I meant if any modern whales could end up living on land

>>2397613
Does count and is a whale.

>>2397411
Most part of dog breeds will become extinct because of their high degree of dependance from humans. Only primitive breeds have a chance. Also crosses between dog and coyote or jackal may evolve to new species. Tthe case is known in bovids - European bison appeared as a result of prehistoric hybridization between fossil Bison priscus and aurochs (Bos primigenius) extinct in 1627. So the same is probable for canids.

As for me, I think tthe surviving is possible also for primitive local chicken breeds/races from Africa and Asia. I have some ideas of this kind in Neocene.

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He fucking made it bros

>>2397287
The only thing that *might* have been large enough would be Argentavis, but it could probably only barely carry its own weight.

>>2395542
If there are any extraterrestrial species that have come to this planet, they'd have to be these.

>>2398349
There are some raptors that can lift and fly while holding prey even heavier than they are, like the eagles that grab monkeys off trees. Argentavis was ~150 pounds, so if it could lift heavy animals like a raptor it could maybe do the same for a human. Of course that probably doesn't apply to Argentavis assuming it was a scavenger like modern condors.

There were some pterosaurs that are estimated to have been hundreds of pounds though, I believe. I don't know how the mechanics of pterosaur and bird flight differ but maybe a flying bird of that size could theoretically evolve even if it never actually happened.

>>2398446
> I don't know how the mechanics of pterosaur and bird flight differ
They differ greatly. A recent study in pterosaur biomechanics showed that they were more efficient flyers than birds, and Questzalcoatlus is estimated to have been capable of flying 10,000 miles nonstop, rather like an albatross.

>>2398551
If they were more efficient than birds then why were birds able to eliminate them in most of their niches? Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, most pterosaurs, excepting the massive azdarchids, were already extinct by the time of the K-T extinction because birds had out-competed them. Hence why no pterosaurs survived the event even though other tiny flying animals did, there simply weren't any tiny flying pterosaurs around even before the mass extinction.

>>2398568
Maybe they were just better at all the other stuff pterosaurs did

>>2398349
>but it could probably only barely carry its own weight.

Just like how bumble bees can't actually fly.

>>2398568
Feathers are warmer than proto-feathers or bare skin/scale.

>>2398568
More efficient flyers, but probably less efficient at everything else. One example is that from what paleontologists have found of pterosaur eggs and young, they weren't as nurturing as birds.
>>2398665
>Feathers are warmer than proto-feathers or bare skin/scale.
A thousand times yes.

Rewatched TFIW recently because I was bored as fuck and didn't have much else to do. It's still interesting overall but good God some of the ideas seem really badly executed.

The first episode is pretty good but the second half has a few things that make me incredulous. The monkeys can build traps more advanced than any non-human animal has ever made, yet aren't shown to use any other tools? And why were they depicted with such human faces? Why would bats have evolved to be the major aerial predator over birds?

The second episode is where stuff really gets ridiculous. Corals are extinct despite having survived since practically the dawn of animal life?
Why are the turtles so fucking huge? They say it's to avoid predation and reach new food sources but you don't need to be the largest land animal that ever lived to accomplish that, especially when they never show any predators of them. How are mammals all extinct except for a single species? They're the dominant group of animals on the planet and hasn't been any major extinction event to decimate them. They say it's because mammals are doing poorly even today but that's an outright lie. The only reason some mammals are going extinct today is because of human interference, but there are no humans in the world of the show, and there are many groups of mammals that are massively successful even with human interference. They're just arbitrarily made extinct for some reason, probably for shock factor.

The third episode just goes full retard. A mass extinction has wiped out not only every fish, but EVERY SINGLE VERTEBRATE, except for sharks and flying fish, despite the fact that fish have survived nearly every mass extinction event in the Earth's history? And the only bony fish that survive are fucking flying fish, who would probably be one of the most likely to get wiped out. An entire ecosystem is able to thrive based solely off of the flying fish being occasionally washed ashore into a very specific are? It's fucked.

>>2398568
>birds had out-competed them
This is a common misunderstanding of evolution.

in real life tiny pterosaurs were already gone by the time birds had spread around the globe. This is due primarily to Cope's Rule- animals tend to get larger in a lineage over time.

Larger animals are much more prone to extinction because there's less of them, they need more resources, and they're usually extremely specialized to a particular niche and disappear when their niche does.

There was probably extremely little competition between birds and pterosaurs. They went extinct because that's what lineages do eventually when their habitats change.

Birds have so far avoided this problem by (mostly) defying Cope's Rule and staying small and not particularly specialized in exchange for powered flight and endothermy.

>>2398568
For a complete explanation of why birds had nothing to do with pterosaur extinction, see:

Butler, Richard J.; Barrett, Paul M.; Nowbath, Stephen & Upchurch, Paul (2009). "Estimating the effects of sampling biases on pterosaur diversity patterns: implications for hypotheses of bird/pterosaur competitive replacement". Paleobiology. 35 (3): 432–446.

They present solid evidence that small pterosaurs were extinct long before birds showed up.

>>2397549
Something consisting of a genus and species name and not involving semi-made up words.

>>2373578
Birbs will do well, they are the most successful of reptiles and one of the most diverse on the planet.

The possibility of a fully aquatic dinosaur-whale has always inteterested me, possibly spinosaurids could have taken such a step given enough time.

>>2399997
Dougal Dixon in "New dinosaurs" had paid attention to this theme.
But the impossibility of vivipary for bird-archosaurian clade makes it impossible.

>>2388379
You clearly haven't read His Dark Materials

>>2400235
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/earth-and-environmental-science-transactions-of-royal-society-of-edinburgh/article/morphology-of-the-sacral-region-and-reproductive-strategies-of-metriorhynchidae-a-counterinductive-approach/AE3A4183C5925CFE4F6F3108B3B2C147
If this is correct, then metriorhynchids must have figured it out, so it may not be impossible.

>>2393354
Eyes will always exist as lobg as there is light since its a good sensory ability.

Even jellyfish can tell which direction light comes from.

>>2388379
I think if an animal were to evolve wheels, it'd have to be a caste of some eusocial insect. This gets around most of the problems with wheels, the other members of the colony could build a road for it, and the wheeled caste could be solely devoted to transportation so that the issue of gathering food with wheels is gone.

The only problem remaining is how a system like this could even evolve in the first place, though, since a partial wheel isn't useful.

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>>2400718
>how a system like this could even evolve in the first place, though, since a partial wheel isn't useful.

>>2400728
Somersaults are different from a wheel and axle.

So, I just cite W. Barlow's point of view. And it doesn't mean my agreement with him.

>>2397589
You mean the pokemon Tropius?
>>2397613
Best chance would be a "micro-dolphin" that has adapted an almost salmon like breeding cycle, minus the dying part. Maybe as the rivers these micro-dolphin use slowly dry up a few species adapt a means to walk on land to reach bodies of fresh water until later on we get some freaky tripod or saurian like creature.
>>2398345
Now everyone will see his penisauruses.

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>>2384149
Sorry, bröther. I've already eaten the öats that once were in my possession. You must procure new öats.

>>2400691
Sometimes mistakes happen in paleonthology. I'd prefer to have direct evidences.

>>2397224
Fucking great. I love the pixel art.

>>2397224
Many interesting projects in speculative biology have no special site and are based on platforms of other sites like DeviantArt. So, it's great to know about well-formed projects.