Who was in the wrong here?

I know this is a bait thread, but...

"Who was in the wrong here?" implies that it's possible for the dog to be "in the wrong." Even if Cesar did nothing wrong, the dog didn't bite just to be a dick, she bit because she felt threatened

Moving on to the actual answer to your question: Cesar was absolutely in the wrong here. If you watch that whole scene, the dog is clearly very nervous, and gives Cesar every possible signal of "please leave me alone" as possible. She even backs away from him and tries to get out of the interaction several times, but he keeps menacing over her and coming at her. She was afraid, he was physically intimidating her and even "attacked" her (I know his little jab probably wasn't "painful" but it was aggressive and scary to the dog,) and after giving him every opportunity to leave her alone and he still didn't let up (she knew he wasn't going to stop,) she bit him to defend herself.

A professional should not be making dogs react like this. Whether it was just Cesar's actions, or his actions plus the presence of the camera crew that were making the dog uncomfortable, he should've read her behavior better and knew not to put her in that situation and push her into biting.* The goal (especially for potentially "dangerous" dogs) should be to work under the dog's threshold and set them up for success; care should be taken not to create situations where a dog feels they have no choice but to bite.

*I say he "should've read her behavior better," but it is my opinion that Cesar knew the dog was feeling threatened and was intentionally making her lash out because it makes for ~dramatic TV~. Cesar intentionally makes dogs react in order to show what a "huge difference" his "training" made after he bullies the dogs into a state of learned helplessness. This is not only irresponsible (comes with the potential of a dog later lashing out/attacking without giving warning signs since those warning signs were previously punished,) but also unethical.

I really fucking hate that guy. He breaks dogs like they are horses instead of socializing them

and he was wrong.
>clearly nervous dog
>suddenly he grabs at the most sensitive part of her body while she's looking away and startles her
>she snaps as a warning
>he doesn't back off
>gets bit like a fucking retard
>then kicks the dog he instigated a fight with

and at the end of the episode he stole their dog. He took it away to live with him and just never gave it back. I wonder if he even paid the family for it

taking that swipe at her muzzle while her attention was elsewhere seems like an overwhelmingly stupid move. to immediately advance on her after doing so when she was clearly startled also seems overwhelmingly stupid.

>>2351120
Dog was euthanized later, too.

>>2351100
Being "in the wrong" is a moral judgement, moral judgements to not apply to animals, therefore noone was in the fucking wrong. Animal felt instinctively threatened, because guy is too stupid to handle situation with nervous animal correctly, bit the fucking guy, and once that happens you have to get it off somehow. I don't think that kick hurt too bad

>>2351120
>He breaks dogs like they are horses instead of socializing them

Can you go into more detail about this? I'm not a dog owner, but my parents are fascinated by this guy and watch his show all the time. How do you do it differently?

This webm triggers me everytime

Stupid fucking beaner

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>>2351100
The owner for raising an unstable dog. Dogs are some of the easiest animals.

>>2351250
It depends on the breed anon.

>>2351120
Stupid, average tv consumers like such self-proclaimed """professionals""" like Cesar. Too bad his methods cause harm both to dogs and their owners. But who cares: money ain't stink after all.

'submission' isn't a thing. He is mistaking phenomena like decrease in adrenaline response over time and operant extinction with 'submission'.

As a behavioral psychologist for low function and highly aggressive humans, it is shocking that he can find liability insurance for these non-evidence based procedures.

>>2351300
its a lab retriever

>>2351233
his whole basis is trying to pretend hes the alpha of the pack! except these are dogs, not wolves, and there is no pack, it's a family.

dogs are taught rules and guidelines through positive reinforcement. when they do something good they receive a reward, when they do something wrong they receive a deterrent. I don't say bad, I say wrong, because the dog isn't consciously being bad its just a fucking dog and doesn't know better. It has to learn. In my case I used that bitter apple spray. If the dog was chewing or on a couch he gets a spray and learns that's not somewhere he should be. So he associates couch = gross taste = I don't couch anymore

that guy just beats dogs into submission, he scruffs them by the neck, makes a scary noise, and hits them on the back of the head.
He's not teaching the dogs right from wrong, he just making them terrified to do anything without explicitly being told to because the consequences are he beats them

I don't give a shit about the dogs so much as the retards who saw Cesar's muh alpha dog training and then tried to apply it to human societies. You know, the faggots from /fit/ and /r9k/ who define their lives by alpha and beta nowadays? Cesar was responsible for that. Truly a cancer to our modern world.

>>2351453
looks like we got a salty little beta here. let me guess, under 6 feet too?

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>>2351453
What? Applying it to human society makes perfect sense.

Are you denying there are dominant and submissive personalities?

>>2351510
>>2351507
Mexicans spotted. I don't understand why spics go into MUH ALPHA shit all of the time but it's full retard. It must be why your country is filled with drug dealing head hunters and you have to migrate over here.

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>>2351512
Coming from a country that made a macho billionaire their president.

Really gets you thinking.

>>2351516
I'd take white house being trump tower 2.0 over headhunters any day of the week.

>>2351521
I'm not even a Shitskin you moron, but you bashing Alpha/Beta mentality while the USA is literally the Alpha/Beta mentality country PERSONIFIED is hilariously retarded.

>>2351525
>hurr estados unidos put da trump in that mens muh alpha male PUA bs is ritttee!!!

Is this Mexican male logic?

>>2351100
fuuuuuuuuuck cesar.

>>2351538
fuck off NCR

>>2351543
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear doggo

>>2351344
And inbred untrained labs (which are the majority of the labs middle class owns in America) cab be very unpredictable and dangerous.

German Shepherds, rat terriers, and labs gave us the most issue with aggression when I worked for a vet. At least pit bulls were predictable in their body language, as were nippy chihuahuas. Those presented more aggression more of the time, but because you could predict it, it was easier to control.

The most severe bite I ever got was from a lab. First he jumped for my throat and when I dodged, he clamped down on my thigh close to the femoral artery. Needed lots of stitches after.

What episode was this? I never pay attention to what this retard spic does. Did he really take the dog away? Are you guys sure it isn't just manufactured sensationalism?


>>2351507
Seems like you're the beta here, for using something that women are attracted to (height) in order to belittle another man.
I do disagree with the anon who said we shouldn't use alpha/beta in society. If we keep telling men that it's okay to be little pussies, and telling women that they should be masculine leaders our population will surely decline like no other. Men need support at home, and women need someone to lead. We exist as two sides of one coin and balance one another out. When that balance is off or broken shit gets weird like it has been getting since the early 00's. I wouldn't respect a man who let his woman boss him around or act like a sensitive priss anytime he's upset, just like I wouldn't respect a woman who made more than her husband/undermined his goals or rejected her femininity. Beta fucks who piss themselves at the thought of being in charge end up being the woman in relationships, which ends up making the woman grasp for any sort of control over things - they usually end up fighting constantly since the quivering pussy is too insecure, and the girl can smell it a mile away. Girls don't do well as leaders or "alphas." You can see this in any "progressive" relationship who "treat each other as equals." Why do you think lesbians are so prone to physical abuse? They're going against their own female nature and both struggle for control AND submission. There are outliers for "alpha/beta doesn't apply", but those outliers just prove the point that humans work in similar dynamics. They wouldn't be outliers if it wasn't a norm. Men can be both alpha and beta, versatile, but that doesn't excuse it. Women can only be beta - if a woman is alpha it's because of her man, not her merit/personality. I think anon is confusing alpha/beta in a pack sense with individual sense.

>>2351543
fuk u legion, we have the dam piss off

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>>2351619
woah there did I strike a nerve? You must think about your short height a lot to be able to write an essay like that.

>>2351100

My roommate uses this method on her dog. Her bitey, anxious, perpetually resource guarding dog who's hackles seem to be up 24/7.

Call it a hunch, but it seems like taking outdated advice rooted in an outdated misunderstanding about wolf behavior might actually cause more harm than good. Fuck do I know though, he's on TV so he must be good.

That dog was in the wrong for not knowing its place in the pack. Dogs are below humans. Putting the dog down was the right thing to do for everybody.

>>2351559
>inbred
Is this true?

>>2351209
good. no dog should bite a human like that unless the human is literally killing them. the dog being so nervous and jumpy and then biting the shit out of him after a little flick to the muzzle means it's too dangerous to be safe in society and deserves death.

maybe a little shit dog could've gotten away with it but labs are huge and powerful. must've been a defective one.

>>2351533
>Mexican male logic
>implying mexican females don't think like that too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ihXq_WwiWM

This dog is retarded. Literally a dog bite death waiting to happen. Really, she needed to be put down for the safety of the public and her dumbass owners. Some dogs are not able to be saved, and the unfortunate part is that this probably could have been avoided if she'd been trained properly.

But she clearly wasn't. By anyone.

>>2351619
>that fucking text brick
holy fuck anon

>>2352572
I mean there are no scientific studies to prove it, but a lot of vets and responsible breeders talk about it.
https://mysmelly.com/Archive/BreedersInbreedingTell/xxdl/post.htm
>I know another breeder who breeds labs and is very conscientious about it. He told me that inbreeding is such a problem in this area that he had to drive out to the midwest to find dogs he considered to be good quality lineage so he could breed quality puppies. So far, not a singly puppy has had any problems that he knows of. I know this guy quite well and believe he really does breed a high caliber lab. (His litters are not frequent and he has a long waiting list so I'm not going to give out his name in case you wanted to ask)

Dio cane

>>2352909
>must've been a defective one
No, it's perfectly normal for any untrained dog, that's why we train them.
The problem here is that the dude's job is to train dogs but he clearly doesn't know how to do it.

>>2351113
fpbp /thread

If only all of /an/ was this informed about what they argue about

Thread degrading
Abort, abort

>>2351815
Get back to Tumblr nu-male

>>2351113
>the dog didn't bite just to be a dick, she bit because she felt threatened

How the fuck do you know what the dog was thinking?

Some animals are just mean

>>2353099
>How the fuck do you know what the dog was thinking?
Obvious visual cues.

>>2351100

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MWEythWtuE

This video is a good explanation.

Cesar Millan made a small mistake when he took his attention off the dog at the wrong moment, but he remained calm and corrected himself quickly and handled the situation well after that.

>>2352915
There is no need to put her down when a great trainer like Cesar Millan can help her. She just needs a bit of tough love and then she can live happily ever after.

>>2353099
How do you know someone is sad, or happy, or think something is funny?

They cry, smile, and laugh.

>>2352999
Beatings work

>>2354127
Video is a poor explanation. Cesar did not make a "small mistake," his entire methodology was wrong. If you bully a dog and ignore its attempts to get you to leave it alone, you're going to get bit.

>>2351113

nah pham casar is the man, that dog clearly had issues

I would have had it put to sleep but cesar is such a fucking boss that he was able to retrain it.

this is also a textbook lesson on how to react when a dog attacks. the moment you express fear or curl up, the dog smells blood and goes in for the kill.

tl;dr you're an idiot, cesar is a savant

>>2354139
>just use anthropomorphism: the post

none of you understand qualia

>>2354638
>doesn't understand that social creatures use social cues
Tell me, did you tell your mother you are autistic?

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>>2354645
>every species uses the same social cues
>I can substitute my own primate social cues because muh feelings and muh emoshuns

The future otherkin reveals all.

Explain me how the dog could possibly be wrong
I.
Don't.
Get.
This retarded Cesar.

>>2354646
>otherkin
what do those weirdos have to do with anything here?

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>Dogsitting for a distant relative
>Doberman
>At one point bit me for seemingly no reason, pierced the flesh between my thumb and my index finger
>Never been great with dogs so still not sure why it did this
>Never told the owner because they would have put the dog down
Was I in the wrong here?

>>2354633
Oh, Ok I guess Cesar should have just let Holly have her way then. Is that what you are thinking?
Or do you feel sad that poor Holly was traumatized for life by a little tough love? How horrible! Death would have been preferable to that!

You think the owners were just so silly. They contacted Cesar Millan instead of a true certified professional! Absurd!
A quick google search would have revealed that esteemed professionals like Victoria Stilwell condemn the use of punishment! And she is super smart and scientific, unlike Cesar, that lowborn scum from Mexico. Cesar Milan is a big bad bully so make sure that you hide your precious little fur babies from people who like him. They are not to be trusted and the CAPDT people I know told me so it must be true.

How about you open that narrow-mind of yours and watch the video again? You might actually learn something. Like or not there is a reason why Cesar Millan is the greatest dog trainer. He gets results. Open your eyes more and you will understand why.

>>2351100
He's a complete tool who knows nothing about truly training animals.

>>2354993
The only times that I've ever gotten bitten by a dog was because I was being an idiot and I clearly deserved it.

>>2354984
I don't know if this is a troll or you're actually a spic who thinks beating dogs into submission is a good way to handle them

Either way, drink cement

>>2354993
Lots of people don't.
>push down on dog's ass until it sits, hold it there
>"sit"
>hand treat
>"good boy"
>release
>ask dog to sit
>repeat until it works
>reinforce for a week, especially when you have good food to hand off

The idea that you can train a dog by death staring and making it fear you and becoming the "pack leader" has infected many American minds because of this. It's easy a fuck to train, but tedious to achieve full control. Not having a fucking retarded asshole dog/dog breed is a good place to start.

>>2352915
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlN6NsbWAQg
She was saved though check it out

>>2351209
Glad to hear it.

>>2351113
This

I mean, fuck, even after pushing the dogo to the limit and then touching her, after she snapped at him he COULD have just stood up and backed off and he would have been fine.

But then he fucking squatted right back down and THAT is what really set her off. With the OP webm just play seconds 3-5 a few times and you'll see it.

I don't even think it was intentional on his part, (just look at his face after she snapped at him, you can clearly see the confusion on his face) but even if you can argue away every other action he made up until that point the moment he started squatting back down was when he unarguably fucked up.

>>2355006
>Pushing down the dog.
>Not just luring him into sitting.

>>2354733
Depends
Maybe if it had a history of doing this
When I was a kid I was left with my uncle's mutt and he bit me in the face without warning, I think maybe because I was petting it too hard and made it uncomfortable without noticing
I never heard of him biting anyone else and didn't hate/fear him after (maybe because the next few times I saw him I was older and knew I could handle him) but I also kept an eye on him whenever he was around

>>2355236
I tried to teach a stray ratdog to sit the other day. Couldn't force him, couldn't lure him. Settled for teaching him to lay down instead.
I don't think I ever saw him sit once.

How fucking terrible of an owner do you have to be to make a Labrador aggressive?

>>2355169
He's a monster because he made a mistake, omg

He's only human

You faggots don't even think a person should scold a dog, you are symptomatic of the rot eating away our civilization

@2355284
3/10, I nearly answered. No (You) for you, though.

>>2353004
>tfw we had a actual discussion for the first 10 posts

>>2355290
Maybe this is nostalgia, but it didn't seem to be this way two years ago.

I hate what /an/ has become.

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>Living in fear of an animal because it's a nervous wreck

Dogfags explain yourselves

>>2354646
Look up what an analogy is and come back to me. You are painfully unaware of what an example is trying to portray.

>>2355309
No, he's just a trolling shithead. Ignore him and move on with your life.

>>2355304
I miss the /an/ that was almost always nice to trolls to a point it was comedic.

>>2355307
>explain yourself
My dog is trained, properly socialized, and well adjusted. Of course it's an animal that has free will so I can't say with 100% certainty nothing bad will ever happen, but I have done everything required to raise a well behaved happy and content dog. Because of this I can afford to take a calculated risk, like many, many dog owners before me who have had dogs that live long and incident free lives.

>>2354637
The problem isn't how he handled being bitten (I don't blame him for kicking the dog to get her off of him.) The problem is that she should have never been pushed to bite him in the first place. It was irresponsible and unethical.

>>2354984
>Oh, Ok I guess Cesar should have just let Holly have her way then. Is that what you are thinking?
I am thinking he should be setting the dog up for success, not forcing her to fail (react/lash out) and then punishing her for it. It's bad practice.

Fixing resource guarding isn't a matter of bullying a dog into "submission," it's a matter of changing the dog's emotional reaction to people being near his food. i.e. teaching the dog he doesn't have to feel threatened or afraid. Not only is this a more effective and less dangerous method, but it involves less stress on everyone involved. The reason Cesar doesn't do this is because if the dog doesn't react and act all scary, then it doesn't make for dramatic TV and the audience doesn't see what a "dangerous" "redzone" dog this was. It's ridiculous.

>>2355169
Honestly, a dog that large and unpredictable is a child-mauler waiting to happen. It's funny how everyone gets so ass-blasted about pits and then defends a clearly defective dog because it's a lab.

>>2351448
>scruffs them by the neck, makes a scary noise, and hits them on the back of the head.

So you've literally never watched his show or read a book. Cool.

If you had ever watched even a single episode, you would have seen he rarely does anything other than a tap and vocal deterents. He uses power of presence. And guess what? Dogs follow leaders. If your dog walks ahead of you, which he probably does because lolz he thinks he's a human, why bother to learn dog body language means! He sees you as his bitch.

>>2352572
Really?

It's not common knowledge puppy mills and back yard breeders don't give enough of a fuck to stop and test DNA or bother to not breed aggressive or mantally ill dogs. "Breeds" are family lines that have to be carefully watched or they will end up with horrible breed issues from inbreeding and not having diverse DNA.

King Charles Spaniels came from literally 10 dogs in America. They die from heart diseases constantly because it is a issue associated with the breed.

Shit head Shihtzus came from around 20 in China that survived a Chinese revolution. Peasants attacked the royal family and the dogs had to be smuggled out of the palace.

>>2352909
Sadly most bleeding hearts here won't agree with this.

>What is breeding for specific traits and bite inhibition.

>>2352999
Nope.
>Breeder A breeds only dogs that have never bitten and trust humans unconditionally.

>Breeder B breeds only the winners in dog fighting competitions.

Breeder A's dogs can be trusted to not care if a toddler pulls their tail without any training.

Breeder B's puppies have to be removed from their mom as soon as possible or she will kill them in one bite if they bite her nipple too hard while feeding.

Source:Dog behaviorist interview went he went undercover to a dog fighters breeding kennel.

A untrained puppy from a good breeder has never bitten me when I have done anything to them in my groom salon. They look at me scared, but with complete trust.

Puppies from a puppy mill 95% of the time: shit themselves from fear before anything has been done. Try to bite for everything no matter how small or non threatening. Show aggression, not fear biting.

Go out and find a puppy bred to be a helper for the disabled. Then find a puppy from a pet store that is a terrier. Bonus points for Scottish terrier, the breed most prone to bite.

Try to piss off both and see which tries to bite, and which wouldn't try even if they were raised by a crack head in the worst ghetto in the world.

>>2355006
>Deathstare is somehow the same as a look of confidence they will listen to you.

Sure thing person who has never worked with scared animals. I work with dogs that would bite me if I didn't give off the body language that I was confident they would listen.

>>2355246
Small dogs tend to not like to sit on hard floors. My local dog trainer brings soft mats to teach small dogs to sit.

I guess I'll post it here because I don't know where else to post it.

Why does my dog whine when I'm on the roof cleaning the gutters? He also whines when he sees cats on the fence he's very friendly to cats though I own two and he's very loving with them. The only thing I can think of his anxiety he doesn't like us being up there???

>>2355518

What are your favorite types of doges, groomerbro?

>>2351209
nice

>>2355472
I totally agree with you on Cesar being unprofessional. He really needs to start taking his responsibility as a role model seriously. This kind of intervention would be disastrous if performed by an amateur. Just because his show has a disclaimer, doesn't mean he can just do whatever he wants!

Cesar was being a total asshole to Holly. Imagine some strange guy you barely know suddenly "claims" your food! No wonder Holly got so pissed off! And rightfully so! I don't blame her at all for her reaction.

I understand the concept of tough love, but Cesar went too far here. That is why when Holly was in a "submissive" state, she still wasn't completely over the shock. That is why she swung back quickly into aggression over a trivial matter.

It's a real shame. I don't really have any beef with Cesar Millan, kind of like him to be honest, but he let me down here. I hope that bite, at least, was a humbling experience for Cesar. He deserved it.

>>2355343
>incident free
I shouldn't have to worry about incidents in the first place

>>2351113
>*I say he "should've read her behavior better," but it is my opinion that Cesar knew the dog was feeling threatened and was intentionally making her lash out because it makes for ~dramatic TV~. Cesar intentionally makes dogs react in order to show what a "huge difference" his "training" made after he bullies the dogs into a state of learned helplessness. This is not only irresponsible (comes with the potential of a dog later lashing out/attacking without giving warning signs since those warning signs were previously punished,) but also unethical.

I've never seen any post sum up why all Caesar and other pet trainer shows are such fucking trash in so few words and clear language, 10/10

>>2355612
The post I was replying to implied there would be an incident.
I agree you shouldn't have to live in constant fear and worry of incidents with a dog. Confidence in your abilities and decisions is important, especially when trusting a large animal to behave and react the way you expect.

>>2355646
Sorry mate, your obviously in the right here. Just had several bad experiences with dogs during developmental parts of my life and now I loathe them

>>2355651
That's unfortunate anon, sorry to hear.

>>2355506
>If your dog walks ahead of you [...] He sees you as his bitch.
This is laughably absurd. Dogs don't walk ahead of humans because they're ~dominant~ they do it because they naturally walk faster than humans and are--get this--just excited to go go go!

Not every interaction with your dog is a constant power struggle where they're looking for any excuse to outrank you. If you stop viewing your interactions with your dog through this lens of power struggle, you'll both be a lot happier, have a better relationship and a deeper understanding of each other.

>>2353001
>>2355632
Thank you. This is something I'm really passionate about, so I try to educate where I can. Unfortunately, not many ears are willing to listen.

>>2351100
The stupid taco for kicking a dog that wasn't even biting him hard.

>>2351250
i also agree with anon, how hard is it to raise a fucking Labrador right?

>>2351516
>a single person =/= 300 million people

Go back to Tacoland, faggot.

>>2351100

EA.

dogs are shit

>>2351100

Doggo voted for Trump. Doggo said Build That Wall.

>>2351113

Say, what do you make of the video shared by
>>2352915
Holly doesn't seem to hold any grudge against Cesar at all. Even if Cesar was unnecessarily harsh Holly will now be able live as a happier pet dog now.

People who are on the brink of surrendering their dog for Holly's same problems might see this and hold on to a bit of hope that their dog can be redeemed. More dogs will be able to keep their homes because of Cesar's efforts to educate the public on canine behavior.

I know it might be hard for you to imagine, but just pretend for a moment. What if Cesar is actually a completely genuine guy? I feel like he is motivated by a desire to improve the welfare of dogs in America. And he has! One only needs to look at his success story as proof of his qualifications. He would have never amassed such a devoted following if his code of ethics was a poor as you think it is.

Like everyone else Cesar Millan makes mistakes. He even admits it! How can such an honest, humble guy like him be unethical? If you examined his TV Show and its effects in the context of the big picture, could you really come to the sound conclusion that he does more harm than good?

>>2355846
Ack I quoted the wrong video. It is the one with Holly being all friendly and affectionate with. Too tired to find it now.

>>2355846
Even if Cesar is a completely genuine guy and really has dogs' best interests at heart, he's incredibly misguided and misinformed and as such is in NO position to "educate" the public about dog behavior.

No, not everything he has said or done is wrong. But his understanding of dog behavior is fundamentally flawed, and his training methodology involves intentionally setting dogs up for failure and then punishing said failure, rather than just setting them up for success. It's irresponsible and unethical, end of story. He should not be spreading this methodology and "information" to the public.

So yeah, I think that big-picture, given the huge impact his show has had on the public leading them to believe and do the wrong things concerning dogs and their welfare...yes, the impact has been more harmful than good, in my opinion.

>>2353099
Because animals are perfect angelic beings and humans are the only animals in the universe capable of being in the wrong.

>>2355518
Anon, labs and goldens bite a shitload too, because "they're nice dogs", so it's okay if little Timmy pulls their tail and ears unsupervised. And I doubt anyone ever bred those to fight other dogs.

>>2351559
Psh I've had 2 full german shepherds, an american bulldog, bernard/retriever, 2 mastiffs and a shepard/chow and they've all been correctly trained and trusted enough to meet the babies in the family. Note every dog was adopted from the pound as well, some being given up for "issues" with the previous owners. It's the owners fault. Shitty owners make a shitty dog they reflect one another. Like saying the car crashed itself not the driver or the computer gave itself the virus. Jesus take responsibility or never own a living animal.

>>2352915
Correct. Dog could have been trained correctly, but seems to have had autistic owners. Poor dog.

>>2354667
The owners did not inbed what we take as right and wrong into the dog through training. So the dog did wrong as we see it but did not know better. Does not mean it wasn't incorrect, just shitty trainers thinking they were smart enough to raise an animal.

>>2355524
Yeah. Dogs hate pussies

>>2351113
Dogs attack for no reason all the time. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>2356207
>Dogs attack for no reason all the time
Care to back that up with some sort of proof, or are we supposed to just ignore your bias and prejudices and accept your opinions as facts?

>>2351100
I would have sued the shit outta him. He kicked the damn dog.

>>2356036
This.

You can't be half-hearted when you communicate with your dog. Nobody likes a doormat.

>>2356269
The dog deserved it.

>>2355927
>his training methodology involves intentionally setting dogs up for failure and then punishing said failure, rather than just setting them up for success. It's irresponsible and unethical
>rather than just setting them up for success
Pretty much this.
>>2355683
This should be applied to life in general.
If you are always thinking something is out there to outclass you there is no peace of mind.
Not everything has a threating meaning behind it.

>>2351113
This

Mostly. I mean some dogs just have issues. Still, mostly Cesar.

The owners of that dog were in the wrong.

They fucked up majorly in raising it. ALL dogs are dangerous and need to be carefully raised and cared for. If you don't realize this you should not have a dog.

I hope that dog's owners were put down.

>>2356207
They really don't, though. Under normal circumstances, a dog that isn't sick (brain tumor or something) does not attack "out of nowhere." There is ALWAYS a reason, and (almost*) always warning signs. Just because people don't know what warning signs to look for, and/or intentionally ignore the warning signs or get more threatening when they happen, doesn't mean the dog attacked "for no reason."

And if you are trying to imply that Holly attacked "for no reason" you are either really dumb or willfully blind. Cesar was menacing at her and she felt threatened enough to bite because he wouldn't leave her alone. This is not "no reason."

*I say "almost always" because dogs who have been previously punished for warning signs like growling can go straight from 0 to 100 (biting) without warning. This is because the dog knows giving warning signs will lead to unpleasant things (getting yelled at, hit, etc.) If you punish the growl, you may effectively stop the dog from growling at you in the future, but you've done nothing to change the dog's emotional response to whatever triggered the growl in the first place, so what you end up with is a dog who is still scared, threatened, or upset but will jump straight to biting when they've had enough with no "warning." This, however, isn't naturally how dogs do things. Naturally, dogs will give plenty of warning and try to avoid a fight if at all possible, until they feel there is no other choice.

>>2356413
This is not true. Pitbulls regularly attack without warning sign, and even mimick traditional dog play gestures before attacking. This is one reason why they are so dangerous.

>>2356215
The bias that I love dogs?
>>2356413
Dogs DO attack for no reason at times. I guess all the pitbull hate is unjustified by your logic. But dogs do attack unprovoked all the time. Dogs are great but being blind by "muh dog is muh child" is top tier fucked in the head.

>>2351100
Dog, duh. Cesar maybe pushed his luck too far in this situation, he could have avoided being bitten. That being said, psycho dogs like this that bite that aggressively are by and large raging assholes to deal with by that age and doubly so when they're that size. They're largely unfixable unless you send them to a paid professional, and at that point there's no guarantee you can maintain the gains they make with regards to behavior. Most dogs that act this way don't last long. They're so dangerous they end up biting a kid and getting euthanized. Whether this is due to the owner being negligent or the dog just being bonkers, the end result is the same.

>>2351448
positive reinforcement and very small negative reinforcement is great providing the dog is reasonably even-tempered to begin with. in some cases, if a dog is behaving dangerously such as the case in OP, you should physically pin them and use your superior strength if you have it. Bitter spray doesn't work if an 80 pound lab wants to bite the shit out of you.

>>2356032
>muh anecdotes

>someone works at a vet for years and has seen at least 200 more animals than you

>NO I'M THE AUTHORITY!!1!

i worked for a vet for 6 years too, and will back up what the other poster said. this is aside from the fact that true nutcase dogs are pretty rare on average. your odds of actually finding a psycho are low, especially since most pounds euthanize the really vicious ones out of hand because they endanger the staff.

>>2356581
Then why are there so many (80+) unprovoked dog attacks?

>>2356583
there are around 78 million dogs in america, the rate of dog bite attacks accounts for around .2 or .3 percent of that on average. 98% or so of dogs aren't bonkers.

>>2356418
>>2356572
[citation needed]

I never said dogs don't attack, or are harmless. Dogs are carnivores with sharp teeth and a powerful bite, and they can and do bite when they feel the need to. I just said that they don't attack "for no reason." Prey drive is a reason. Territorial aggression is a reason. Fear is a reason. There are no "no reason" bites. There is always a trigger.

>>2356578
This is kind of...untrue. Positive reinforcement training is even MORE important for "dangerous" or unstable dogs. If the dog attacks, by all means subdue it and don't let it fuck your shit up! But! The goal is to NOT bring the dog over threshold. The idea is to work under threshold and change the emotional response so the dog does not feel the need to bite.

>>2356581
Wow six years of seeing an animal for a moment of their lives in an uncomfortable environment. Being a nurse's assistant doesn't trump a 20 year span experience with 9 plus dogs while noting their interactions with all the people, dozens of other animals, and dogs they've met. I've trained all my dogs to accept and protect the chickens, pigs, goats, turkeys, doves, and peacocks on our ranch. Admittedly a few would chase the peacocks and nip at the hind legs of the goats and pigs if they caught them and would have killed them,following basic instinct, if allowed. Guess what, I taught them otherwise. When you know animals in and out the truth is plain as day, but you're entitled to your opinion.

>>2356032
>Shitty owners make a shitty dog they reflect one another.

This is spot on.

There are very few dogs that are "psychotic", so to speak, but they do exist. Most problematic behaviors develop because the dog simply wasn't taught the proper way to behave, or consistently corrected by the owner.

Too many people treat their dogs like children, and not like the bad ass, tough as nails, pack oriented canine companions that they actually are.

>>2356652
>Being a nurse's assistant doesn't trump a 20 year span experience with 9 plus dogs
are you serious? it 100% does

>>2356672
Oh okay you win

>>2351250
ANGERY

>>2351113
>"Who was in the wrong here?" implies that it's possible for the dog to be "in the wrong." Even if Cesar did nothing wrong, the dog didn't bite just to be a dick, she bit because she felt threatened
I'm not going to argue on what you said about the dog feeling threatened because it's clear on that webm that the dog was scared shitless, and from the few episodes I've seen of this show, Cesar is a fucking dick.

BUT

Saying animals cannot do anything wrong is just plain stupid, animals can be massive assholes for no reasons at all, such traits are not exclusive to humans.

>>2356691
I don't think the point was that "animals can't be assholes," rather that dogs don't attack people just to be assholes, they do it for a reason (in this case, the dog being afraid and feeling threatened.)

>>2356269
>man gets bit by dog
>man kicks dog
Gee wiz anon wonder whose gonna win that court case, and whose gonna be desperately hoping they won't get put down in the best case scenario

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlN6NsbWAQg

>>2356670
This. With few exceptions, America babies and indulges their dogs. Just look at how huge and ridiculous the pet industry is as proof. The problem with that is that when a pet owner spoils their dog they aren't really respecting it. They are just using the dog as emotional crutch to massage their own insecurity about being a "loving pet parent" like they imagine society expects them too. That is why so many dogs are becoming fat and unruly. Their owners "love" them too much.

People think that a dog can only become fearful and aggressive if they are treated like slaves and harshly beaten. What they don't understand is that this kind of behavior also happens when a dog gets its way too much.

The danger to coddling and pampering dogs, is that it sets the dog up for failure in life. The truth is the world isn't always such a kind place. Dogs need rules and structure as a security measure against an unpredictable world so that they aren't in complete shock when something unusual happens. That is what it truly means to set the dog up for success.

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>>2357076

>tfw you realize this aplies to human children as well but will be scolded if you bring up the comparison

>>2356827
>whose

>>2356691
>>2356717
I think he was more talking about dogs actually doing wrong on purpose as opposed to just reacting to their environment because, you know, they're still animals.

>>2357076
I absolutely baby my dog and let her do stuff she likes sometimes, but she still obeys me perfectly, m8. It's not just either "spoiled babied dog" or "perfectly trained cop malinois", you know.

>>2357212
I don't believe he meant anything like that. You can train and love your dog at the same time that's the point, but many just love the dog and let them do as they please.

>>2357227
Nah, he reads like the usual "well my grampa used to beat up his dog and only let him sleep outside and it worked out fine" moron.

>>2357232
It's not just either "beat your dog" or "do absolutely nothing", you know.

>>2352909
obvious nigger post

>>2357212
>most of them end up being a failure
>BUT MY DOG IS PERFECTLY OKAY
Fuck off retard

>>2355612
then get a fucking hamster or a cat that way you will have two pussies

>>2357232
Yeah, your right. I did kind of sound like a cranky old guy. Thanks for pointing that out.

I didn't mean to imply that people should go back to the old school military style Koehler dog training. That's an old-fashoned way of training and it doesn't suit most households today.

I'm not harsh with my dog at all. I give her plenty of love and affection. I play a lot of games with her, like helping her chase lizards, hide and seek, go find the treat. She is very well behaved and she gets a lot of compliments. Because she is so reliable, I can take her to many places.

The are two extremes in dog training and both are equally as bad. There are people who push their dogs too hard and thus break their spirit, and on the other end, there are people ask too little from their dogs, which holds back the relationship from reaching its fullest potential.

My source of frustration comes from seeing dogs that aren't living up to their potential because their owners are too self-absorbed too pay attention to their dogs. They make up all kinds of excuses for why they can't handle their dog, but it really isn't difficult with the right mindset. It just requires people to leave their comfort zone which isn't easy in the age of safe spaces.

I see more spoiled dogs than beaten dogs so that prejudice did cause me to generalize before. Growing up I was overprotected and wasn't challenged enough. I used to have very low self confidence because of that. It wasn't until I got some reality checks and started going outside more that I started to come out of my shell. My dog has been a very supportive part of this process.

Becsuse I have experienced what a Joy a canine friend can be, I want other people to be able to experience that too so I very passionate about encouraging people to really connect with their dogs.

>>2357327
>the old school military style Koehler dog training.

This method, as well as the old school methods taught to Koehler himself, employed and emphasized the use of positive reinforcement in the form of praise as much as it did what would eventually be called negative reinforcement and positive punishment. If you actually read Koehler method, and Conrad, you'll find that praise is used more often than anything else, as the dogs learn quickly, and are constantly being praised for performing the correct behaviors.

>>2357457
Yup. I really admire Koehler. I learned some important things from reading his book. Truly one of the greatest, and very passionate about what he did. I remember reading something like emphatic praise should follow after an emphatic correction and how it is important to end each session with your dog on a positive note. And also he emphasizes the importance of being fair to your dog and making sure he knows what is expected of him before you push him. From Koehler and others I've learned that dogs don't respect uncertainty! One firm correction is better than a dozen half-hearted ones.

I do believe that Traditional training methods like Koehler are not as obsolete as the politically correct side of the dog world would have you believe. The reason why I call them old-fashioned is that they were geared and therefore more natural and fitting for the culture of the generation that used them. They are still viable today for sure but might be harder to understand for today's novice. I think dog training has evolved to the point where there are more efficient methods for the average dog too.

From Koehler I thought it was really smart how he set up his corrections in such a way that the dog would quickly understand but, I question whether you need to use maximum force to get your point across. I know that dog's can handle pressure, but I'd feel kind of weak-hearted about giving a very strong correction over a minor offense. If I handle my dog in a way that is unnatural to me I know I'll get bad results. So I think the best way to learn from Koehler is to just read his book critically, and apply his general philosophy to whatever your own personal style is. I think anyone who is serious about dog training should study from him, whether or not they chose to follow his method to the letter. Most is on my reading list too. I'll take a look at his philosophy one day.

>>2351448
You dumb bigger you're just using a milder form of deterrent than he does. I guarantee you're dog is a barely trained asshole that runs around while you call it and ignores you, you fucking faggot

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He even said it was his fuck up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imoIPMYodNk

>>2357076
>The danger to coddling and pampering dogs, is that it sets the dog up for failure in life
You can't be a failure if you have no purpose or ambition.
Unless you're specifically training your dog to guard your property or hunt for truffle its sole purpose is to keep the owner company, something that a spoiled dog will still do.

>>2357777
Not wanting your pet to be a fucking wreck is a good enough motive to set "the dog not being a fucking wreck" as an objective, and you can fail that pretty easily.

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>>2351100
Cesar is a cuck who never truly got over his childhood fear of dogs and this is his way of compensating.

If you're obsessing over alpha-beta dynamics with a fucking dog instead of just enjoying the companionship, you're a fucking loser and probably need serious psychological help. You can punish a dog for breaking shit or generally being a nuisance without being a sperg over who walks in front on a walk or how your dog eats his food.

>>2356691
he means they don't have the mental capacity for malicious intentions

>>2357872
That is the stupidest explanation of Cesar I've ever read.

Totally agree on some dominance type trainers taking it too far though. I've read things like "you need to always eat in front of your dog so that it knows you are the alpha" which is completely stupid.

I think The idea of walking in front of your dog is just so that the human has a consistent rule in mind and the dog is less likely to get in trouble that way.

>>2357872
but those pack dynamics are literally how dogs operate

cesar uses those dynamics to correct neurotic and potentially dangerous behaviour that their owners have caused in the first place by trying to "enjoy the companionship" as you say

It appears /an/ hates on Cesar the same way that /fit/ hates on Rippetoe.
Two proven practitioners who get phenomenal results but they must be wrong because they're popular and not "evidence-based", LOL.

>>2358226
This. Cesar Milan is the dog world's favorite punching bag. A lot of the ivory tower type professionals are really envious of him because they grew up thinking their degrees are like badges that make them more special and smart. They consider him a threat to their own feeling of importance, so they call him all sorts of names instead of actually thinking about what makes him so successful. They claim to be all scientific and forget that science is not a religion and is meant to be challenged. They won't admit it, but In truth they would have a hard time adapting to a new theory that implies things that they don't like. Because like most bullies, they are cowards at heart.

In my opinion you can sort out an smart dog person from a dull one just by baiting them with the name Cesar Milan. If their answer isn't any more intelligent then "REEEEEEE" or "You need to always be the Alpha becuase your dog will not tolerate any weakness and will immediately Dominate you" then at that point I know they are just a narrow-minded idiot and I can discard their opinions.

>>2355263
This
Labs are some of the chillest dogs around, how badly do you have to fuck up to make them bite?

>>2351113
FPBP

The rest of this thread is shitty trolling attempts.