/aq/-Aquarium General

>>2317917
Use a turkey baster to squirt the food directly at the cories or use a big net to put the betta in time out for feeding.

>>2317952
>[autistic screeching] edition

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>>2317952
>pic

Puffer teeth freak me out when freediving. They're much scarier than barracuda, which just peacefully hover.

Greenspot algae and PO4. Is there truth behind it or no?

Literally its the only algae I have in my tank and it comes back a week, give or take, after I painstakingly scrape it off the glass.

I have my CO2 as high as I can without killing the fish, lights for 8 hours, and I dose Excel, Excel Flourish, and keep my PO4 levels at 3.

Any idea?

I don't think my tank is cycling but idk what to do.

15gallon, one betta in it. Have had it running for a month. I put established gravel in it and tank water from an established tank as well (only about half of it.) Everything I put in it turns white and dies within literally a day.

I am doing water changes daily but I feel like that's bad for it. At the same time I'm getting 0 ammonia, 0 nitrates and 0 nitrites from my liquid API kit (yes I am shaking the bottles for 2min and hitting them against hard surfaces before testing.) Help, please?

>>2317992
Forgot to mention the betta is completely fine. No ammonia burns or fin damage or anything. But anything new I put in dies immediately.

>>2317992
doing water changes prevents the tank from cycling.

also you didn't mention your filter. You cycle your filter, not the tank itself.

>>2317994
ammonia burns aren't visible.

it burns the gills, which may not produce any symptoms in a betta since they can breathe air at the surface.

most likely ammonia isn't a problem though.
because you keep changing water.

>>2317996
>>2317997
Ok. How come everywhere says you need to change the water daily? I'll stop, but I haven't had a new tank in a long time and I figured that was still a thing you were supposed to do. Nowhere else says otherwise.

>>2318000
>How come everywhere says you need to change the water daily?
because "everywhere" doesn't understand cycling.

ammonia is poisonous to fish, so if you want your fish to survive you need to change water. However ammonia is what your biofilter eats, so if you want to establish a biofilter you can't be changing water and getting rid of the ammonia.

so your choice with fish-in cycling is to poison your fish or not cycle your tank. There's no way around that.

>>2317956
i feel stupid for not thinking of those, thank you

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Anyone know what type of snake head this is? If not a snake head what is the common name of the fish?

>>2318000
What >>2318005 said. You need to cut water changes back to once or twice a week until your test kit starts reading 0, 0, >0.

>>2318025
Looks like an ornate bichir, Polypterus ornatipinnis.

>>2318025
Polypterus ornatipinnis

anyone here own huge fish? i want to get back in to the aquarium scene and buy some peacock bass and build an 800 gallon fish tank

Got a python water changer. Holy fuck I wish I got one earlier. 50% water change and fill on a 60 gallon in about 15 minutes. Fuck buckets.

>>2318031
>You need to cut water changes back to once or twice a week until your test kit starts reading 0, 0, >0.
see, this is the kind of shit that floats around out there.

if you're changing water during a cycle you're doing it wrong.

your first water change should be AFTER the cycle.

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>>2318036
Explain?

posting cory love

>>2318035
I don't own large fish but I have built a large aquarium. About the size you're talking about.

>>2318046
How is anything supposed to survive that long with water saturated in ammonia to that degree?

>>2318067
survival isn't the main goal of fish-in cycling.
you usually use fish that you don't care if they die.

most fish survive it anyways. It takes a lot to kill the average aquarium fish.

I'm not sure where to post this as I'm from /vp/ and don't frequent this board, but I was wondering if anyone itt recognizes what I'm talking about. I saw a video one time looking through nautilus stuff that was of a cephalopod of some sort that had a completely clear "shell." It actually wasn't a shell, but I have no idea what it was. It used most of its tentacles wrapped around its body and on the inside of it to hold the "shell" in place, with a few out the front. It also rested in place on the floor of the aquarium occasionally. I THOUGHT that it was called a glass nautilus/false nautilus, but I can't find anything of that name, and I can't find the video, either. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

>>2318046
Ila go away

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>>2318072

>>2318074
>somebody knows how to cycle tank
>must be ila
he was right though, you guys are mostly drooling retards.

>>2318075
It was a cephalopod. Looked like an octopus or something to me.

Josh Nguyen I know you're here. Now hurry up and put up that plant shipment list.

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>>2318072
?

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>>2318072
??

>>2318089
It was see-through like that, but it was holding the "shell" using its tentacles. They were wrapped around its body and seemingly holding the clear stuff in place.

I'm beginning to suspect it might've been just a clear octopus that had a plastic bag wrapped around its body or something and was playing with it. It was in an aquarium, and the video was in japanese.

>>2318076
>a tank can't cycle with weekly water changes
Who's the drooling retard?

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>>2318094
Paper Nautilus? A few of the videos that popped up were in Japanese.

>>2318094
Is this it?
https://youtu.be/WYZGOl9tP8Q

>>2318072
Sounds like one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argonaut_(animal)

>>2318102
>>2318104
>>2318107
Yep, that's it exactly. That's the exact video I watched too. Thanks you guys!

this might be a dumb question but will different types of guppies school together?

>>2318113
guppies aren't schooling to begin with

>>2318115
so it was a dumb question, got it.

they do group together though, will they all be happy with each other? or do they prefer to be homogenous

>>2318118
ye, a good rule of thumb are 2-3 females per male guppy

>>2318052
Hook it up to your sink, turn on to create siphon, when done switch valves and turn sink in to fill. So much easier.

What would be a good species to have as tank mates for a Betta if your Betta isn't very aggressive? I have a 10 gallon tank.

>>2318138
one betta is enough for a 10.

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How much should a basic planted tank with shrimp cost? This is the first aquarium I've done in a while and my first planted tank. Right now I'm guessing about $250.

>>2318147
$25 for 10-20g tank (petco 1$ gallon sale is the best)
Light:$50 (Some finnex LED)
Filter: 30
Heater: not needed for shrimp ($30 if you live in coldistan and get a eheim jager)
plants:$50 get whatever.
substrate: $12 Sand from the pool supply or fancy dirt (Aquasoil, fluval etc.) ~$50
chemicals/fertilizer/food: $30
20 low grade RCS or 10+1 better shrimp: $25

>>2318167
so yah more or less $250.

>>2317965
Yeah but they're just curious and pretty bro tier.

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What's it gonna take to get rid of this BULLSHIT algae in my tank? I don't even keep the lights on long.

>>2318187
Syringe with hydrogen peroxide or some type of liquid co2 and squirt it all over it.

>>2318118
You mean different colors? They don't care one bit. Different "species" of guppies (endlers, swamp guppies) might not group together as much, but considering they'll try to mate with literally anything their own size, I don't think it'd actually be an issue.

>>2318124
Wouldn't you need a really powerful sink for it to work? Most sinks that I've seen would be level or higher than the midpoint on an aquarium.

>>2318138
Anything 1.5 inches or less that's peaceful and not too bright. Espei rasboras, CPDs, mosquito rasboras, ember tetras, etc.

>>2318147
Depends on how fancy you want to make the setup. I can make a shopping list for a 10 gallon shrimp tank for $50 sans shrimp/plants.

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Gave up on line breeding shrimp, so I just threw them all together. Racemixing here we go.

>>2318200
you realize that just makes brown shrimp right?

>>2318196
My apartment has shitty pressure and works fine.

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My qt

>>2318192
How is that ok to put in a tank, it's not harmful?

>>2318167
Thanks. Most of that sounds in line with what I was thinking. I'm leaning towards a 20 long at the moment. Any idea on how many shrimp are necessary to get a colony up and running? I was thinking 10 to start with.

>>2318200
BLACKED

>>2318202
Meh. I'm tired of having four different tanks set up just for shrimp. The quality gets worse over time regardless of your initial stock unless you're rather aggressive about culling anyway, and I've lost interest in doing that.
Maybe I'll throw all the ugly ones in my larger tank. They'll blend in better.
I also do like the aesthetic of having the different colors together.

>>2318244
Store bought peroxide is already very diluted, and it breaks down into water and oxygen under exposure to light.
"Liquid CO2" is a misnomer for liquid organic carbon additives. The active ingredient is usually glutaraldehyde, which is fairly innocuous at the concentrations it's sold at.

>>2318272
I started with seven rilis and have several dozen now.

>>2318232
Looks like a cock

>>2318098
>trying to build up ammonia to feed bacteria
>changes water to get rid of ammonia
you're the drooling retard, friend.

it's ok, I'm sure you're cute or funny or something.

>>2318232
*Bzzt*

Sorry if this is a bit off topic but I thought I would ask here in case someone would have an answer.

My girlfriend has some turtles that she keeps in tanks with a good amount of water in them. She keeps the tanks against the window so she can get good sun. She also collects driftwood from outside to put in the tanks so the turtles can hide or bask on them. When I was visiting over the weekend, I noticed that one of her tanks was smoking. I knew she had some issues with the filters she was using so I pointed it out to her in case it was the motor burning out. It turned out that the driftwood that was in the tank was actually growing this white fungus on it, so she immediately scrubbed it off but instead of tossing the wood she put it back in as there was nothing else in the tank for the turtle to climb or hide under. My question is, should she toss it (I think she should) or is there a way to salvage the piece by drying it out and then treating it? If so, what would be the best thing to treat the wood with? Are there any alternatives to natural driftwood that she can use that are aesthetically pleasing to the eye and fun for her turtles?

>>2318378
Just dry it. Whatevers growing on it is likely harmless anyway.
Also that probably isn't enough water, and turtles need much better lighting than "just by a window"

>>2318244
I do it with black beard algae. Lots of people do it including salt water guys.

>>2318339
>implying nitrifying bacteria will starve at 0.25-0.50ppm ammonia and nitrite

I doubt you're even cute or funny. Pretty sure you're just stupid.

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>>2318378
this guy >>2318402 is right

It doesn't sound like your girlfriend is taking proper care of the turtles. Tell her to get a proper basking dock for them, or at least right something up for them to be able to climb out of the water all the way and bask under a heat lamp. Water turtles (terrapins) need to be able to get completely out of the water and dry off 100% if they want to. If they are unable to bask properly like this, they will almost certainly develop fungal and/or bacterial diseases at some point. The only water turtles that don't really bask that often are softshell and snapping turtles. And even then, they should still be offered proper means of basking anyway.

Heavy filtration is also key. Filter for AT LEAST double the amount of water in the tank. On that note, turtles are swimmers, fill up the tank with as much water as possible while still allowing for adequate basking

Also, they will most likely be needing UVB light. Without that, their body will be unable to properly process calcium, and they'll die. So that's 2 lamps they'll need (unless you get a self-ballasted bulb that provides both heat and UVB). Just putting them by a window will do nothing. They're definitely not getting proper heating this way, and also not getting their UVB, because glass filters UV rays from the sun

As far as the wood is concerned, it sounds like a bacterial bloom. Common, harmless, but unappealing. Heavier filtration and placing the wood by the output of the filter will typically get rid of this. Small fish will also eat the smoky gunk, but I wouldn't put anything else in there until you make sure your girlfriend has the turtles properly accounted for.

>senior in high school
>start hearing about "water bottle bettas"
>freshman & middlschoolers are bringing in bettafish in water bottles & whiskey bottles and making them fight to the death
>public school so nobody gives a shit
What the fuck is wrong with kids? Are they breaking any laws that I can bitch to administration about? I'm in the US, which should explain why this is even a thing that's happening.

any of you guys be interested in watching me stream setting up/aquascaping my 45p on twitch?

>>2318466
that's certainly animal abuse

>>2318466
US law treats fish as property, so unless they're stealing the bettas, probably not. You could bitch to the administration, though, or make a scene with the school newspaper.

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Fucking niggers. Why torture turtles for fuck sake? Something really messed up in their heads.

>>2318472
same thing about dogs but when it comes to dog fighting it's a crime. It's the same law. But no one cares about fish because they aren't fuzzy and you can't pet them.

Update: specifically, it's being done to settle fights between students who are too pussy to fight themselves. I am increasingly convinced that it's alright to hit your kids. God, who fucking raised these cunts?
>>2318470
>B-b-but they're just fish! A-a-and muh fragile 13 y/o ego and psychopathic tendencies!
>>2318472
I'll try. I'm sure I could get my mom to play concerned parent, and most public schools live in fear of angry parents so I'm sure it would do SOMETHING. I'm pretty good friends with my teachers and a lot of them have freshman classes, so I'll ask them to look out for them. I'm sure they could confiscate them on the grounds that it's a live animal on campus. And if they don't want their fish back, well, I do love bettas.

take video of it. report to humane society. fighting any vertebrate animals is illegal in the US.

>>2318487
????? Pet stores won't sell you a betta or almost any animals if you're under 18 especially chain pet stores. So I don't believe your story unless the parents keep buying them over and over.

>>2318466
>I'm in the US
>Im so fucking privileged and my life is so fucking easy that i literally don't know who to complain to even in a high-school setting and surrounded by administrative personnel
Sounds about right.

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I sucked up a bunch of baby snails in my first proper gravel vac/water change after getting back from vacation.

Don't want to dump them live, quite frankly my population is huge right now so I was thinking of Euthenizing them, but can't find anything definitive on clove oil.

If I have to sift through all of this shit to find them in order to kill them, I'm going to end up keeping them when I've already got god knows how many more in my 29, as well as my 20L.

what do

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>>2318501
Privilege is going to a school where said administrators care when students complain, actually. I already said I'd tell the teachers to watch out for them, but actual administrators don't give a rats ass unless you're an angry PTO mom.
>>2318496
I've bought fish on my own before I was 18 and they didn't say anything to me at all. I don't see why a parent wouldn't buy their kid a few cheap shit fish, anyway. Also, I'm not sure why I'd lie for the sole purpose of complaining online about something that didn't happen. Pic related, one of the aforementioned whiskey fish.

>>2318455
ah yeah, you forgot that nitrifying bacteria consume that ammonia. The more ammonia you have, the more bacteria you can support. The less ammonia you have, the less bacteria you can support.

your tank isn't cycled if it has too few bacteria to support your bioload.

>Pretty sure you're just stupid.
see, you ARE funny!

>>2318455
this can be a confusing topic for retards to grasp, so let me use a couple examples:

say we're raising bunnies and we need to grow some grass to feed them. I grow an acre of grass and you grow a foot. My bunnies live and yours die.

or say we're going camping for a week and I bring a week's worth of food. You bring one can of soup and starve.

or say we're growing nitrifying bacteria and I give them enough ammonia to reproduce to 100% of my tank's capacity. You give them 10% and your fish fucking perish.

get it now?

>>2318495
Good to know. I didn't even think cockfighting was illegal in all states. I'll see if I can find or take any videos of it; I'm not in any classes with people who do this shit, but I'm sure there's edgy cunts who put it on facebook like what I posted earlier.

>>2318527
Dump em outside. They don't feel pain.

Is my Cory going to be sad by himself :(

>>2318527
They don't feel pain. I left a 10 gallon out in the cold full of ramshorns.

>>2318568
Yes

>>2318569
They do indeed feel some form of pain, pain is a product of evolution that aids organisms in reacting to negative stimuli

>>2318590
>nociception

>>2318590
It's not the same pain most things feel. Just pressure.

>>2318569
>>2318558

It's pretty warm out, don't think it's enough to kill em. Also, I don't want to be yet another irresponsible aquatic pet dumper. They're apple snails, and I've got a stream nearby and I do not want to see that shit infested with them.

>>2318621
1. Put snails on ground
2. Smash with hammer

>>2318538
It does not work like you think.

>>2318621
I'm not saying dump them in a stream. I mean dump them in your backyard so they die. Give them away in Craigslist for puffer food or something if you don't want to kill them

>>2318538
So you ignore actual research and go for some made up anecdotal evidence?

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>>2318185

Ok, well I've never been attacked by one, but those chompers freak me out when it's a puffer the size of my head and ominously hovering under a coral ledge watching me.

>>2318538
This is one of those things where it actually doesn't matter if you change the water or not. If you're fish-in cycling you will want to do W/Cs on at least an every other day basis. If you're cycling with just ammonia, now W/C. If you're cycling with food/organic matter (we used to just throw in some frozen shrimp in a tank to cycle it) you will want to do water changes to keep the smell and organic filth/algae less. If you're cycling with something weird like aquasoil or organic potting soil you will want to do daily water changes until the ammonia levels are holding <4ppm so your cycle doesn't stall.

t. fishkeeper 20 years.

>>2318668
so in summary w/c for most methods of cycling are good. Pure ammonia cyclers don't have to change the water.

>>2318608
Right, thus why I said "form of pain" didn't mean to say it's the same, but they def notice something before death.

>>2318668
>t. fishkeeper 20 years
I've been keeping fish longer than you so your experience is meaningless to me. When I started keeping fish nobody knew about cycling.

that said, go on any reef forum and search "water changes during cycle."

you'll find actual experts agree with me 10 to 1.

>>2318668
The only time you should do water changes during a cycle is if ammonia goes over 8ppm.

this almost never happens because your fish will likely die before you can hit that point.

>>2318662
I saw an episode of River Monsters and fresh water puffers were supposedly responsible for a few deaths. They would bite on the femoral artery and cause the victim to bleed out.

>>2318378
>>2318462

Thank you for the tips. Sorry I wasn't very specific, I kinda typed it up before I was rushing into work. She has 2 40 gallon tanks, one for each turtle (both of which she's had for at least 10 years), which she fills with maybe 25-30 gallons. One she has set up with this huge log where one turtle can bask on the top and hide underneath the water if it likes, and the other has the offending piece of driftwood that also goes above and below the water to allow the turtle to bask. Also, she does have proper UVB lights set up for each tank (2 per tank). We were just concerned about it because she has a cat that likes to hang around her turtles and he seemed to be sneezing a lot. Antibiotics don't seem to be working for him. My girlfriend has also had some kind of respiratory infection for the past few months and during my latest visit, I had some breathing problems of my own and I also had some aching in my bones. I wasn't sure if it was some kind of mold around the tanks, since she has had some leaks and even a major flooding event in that area before, or if that fungus on the log was the offender. She does usually keep it next to the filter, which is how I noticed it in the first place. She also keeps some of those algae ball things in the tanks, which prevents stuff from growing underneath the water but above water is where most of the stuff is growing.

>>2318699
>When I started keeping fish nobody knew about cycling.

This is how I know you're lying. The idea of cycling has been around since the 70s. It's not like some fucking mystery. People have been doing aquaculture for hundreds of years.

okay sure:
http://www.3reef.com/threads/water-changes-during-cycle.130912/page-3

turns out there are times to do it and times not to do it just like I said.

Here's a quote from a STAFF MEMBER on 3reef:

"When live rock uncured was the fad hobbyist wanted to preserve all the cool inverts, and micro algae that come with the expensive LR. Hence you did the water changes to preserve the life on the rock.

It's very common for older more experienced hobbyist to do water changes ie soft cycles with newly set up tanks. The local fish stores do them all the time.

It really makes no difference in the long run, other than you avoid deaths of fish and inverts if they are added to a system too early or initially.

A tank will cycle regardless of if you add dry rock and no organic material, or if you add some shrimp. or if you seed it with LR. or if you use a product. Regardless it's not a length of time issue " how long does it take to cycle" it's a reflection of the values for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate once the tank is running, and after each introduction of live stock.

reefmonkey is 100% correct, it just not a common practice nor advisable to suggest to new hobbyist that are unfamiliar with the tell tale signs of new tank syndrom, nor know the appropriate interventions."

>>2318700
I was speaking in reference to fishless cycling using food or humus laden soil.

>>2318723
How big are the turtles? There's maybe 3 turtle species in existence who can possibly fit in a 40g at 10 years old.

>>2318662
If they did attack, just think of it like a triggerfish attack except without the speed.

>>2318724
>The idea of cycling has been around since the 70s
it didn't enter popular knowledge til the late 80's.
not that it matters since I have been keeping fish since the 70's. I know it's inconceivable to you, I must surely be lying. Nobody older than you posts here.

>it's a reflection of the values for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate once the tank is running
this is exactly the correct answer.

if you remove ammonia via water changes you will just grow less bacteria meaning your biofilter is less capable of supporting loads.

that's all that happens. You culture half the bacteria you need or less, and when you add livestock they produce more ammonia than your half-cultured filter can handle and you have to effectively cycle again.

>I was speaking in reference to fishless cycling
I was not.

>>2318729

You are probably right, but honestly I don't really know much about caring for turtles. I think they're red eared sliders maybe around 8-12 inches in length. I guess I should've mentioned that the reason she keeps the turtles near the window is that so in addition to the light, she can easily filter out the water through the window. Basically they're in a hallway so it's not feasible to fit a larger tank in her apartment. We could barely fit the new 40 gallon tank through her door.

>>2318731
you literally ignored all my arguments against what you said.

My premise is simply that "there are times to do it and times not to do it".

You've made the following mistakes:
1. Applied a blanket algorithm in dealing with fish cycling.
2. Misinterpreted the central point of my argument that there are instances where you would want to do a water change during the cycle. Ex:
a.) Too high ammonia levels during FISHLESS cycling.
b.) Preserving biota that are causing a cycle or are incident to it.
c.) Reduction in odors and algae (especially if using a complete source of nutrients to cycle)
d.) Reduction in superfluous nutrients and detritus, (important for reefkeepers looking for getting a head start in establishing oligotrophic environment).

Now there is a reason not to do it: potentially slowing down a cycle and potentially diminishing the effectiveness of the cycle. But the practical answer isn't so black and white and experienced fishkeepers have been doing it both ways successfully as I have provided evidence to.

Now are you going to provide evidence that only your way works in all situations as you have suggested?

>>2318738
>Now are you going to provide evidence that only your way works in all situations as you have suggested?
no.

I ignored your arguments because (while they are valid and true) they aren't relevant to the conversation.

We were discussing water changes during fish-in cycling, nothing more or less.

the fact that water changes might be desirable in other situations doesn't mean a damn thing and I find it irritating that an obviously intelligent poster would veer off topic like that. You can do better.

I have already addressed preservation of livestock, nobody except newbs cycle tanks with fish they care about or spent a lot of money on. Your fish are fairly likely to die.

and even if they survive the initial cycle because you changed water, that just means they'll have to survive a second cycle because you changed water.

>>2318735
They need ten gallons per inch as a bare minimum, so they're sorely undersized. If they're 12 inches and in a fucking 40 gallon, that's just awful. She needs to get a bigger tank for them. If you're not smart enough to fit a tank through the door, though, i'd suggest rehoming them.
You can also put them in large tubs like stock tanks as they're less expensive.

>>2318742
See 2b) :^)

>>2318746
I know.

that is my answer in case you didn't catch it.

and if you go back and re-read my posts you'll see I posted that very same answer repeatedly over and over again before you asked for it.

ITT: egos pretending to be much older than they are

PROTIP: if you aren't prepared to back it up with a timestamped photo you might as well not even post

for supposed old farts you sure do you have lots of temper tantrums online ;)

>>2318531
>>2318538
If you're not ila, you're just as painfully fuckwitted as he is. Why do you even post? It just makes everyone aware of how unbelievably stupid you are.

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>>2318752
One of the first fishkeeping books I ever bought in the 80s.

I'm this fishfucker
>>2318738

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>>2318752
other anon in the argument here.
how old am I? Curious what you think.

>>2318767
>old dude.jpg
Not the aforementioned faggot, but I thought I was gross for continuing to use 4chan after becoming an actual adult. Christ, you could be my grandfather.

>>2318768
>Christ, you could be my grandfather.
the way your mom gets around I probably am.

>>2318731
Oh, cool, it's the geezer. Always nice of you to pipe up and demonstrate how it's possible to do something for nearly 50 years and still not know anything about it.

If ammonia is building up in the tank, it's excess and isn't being eaten by the bacteria, so there's no way they could possibly starve without it.

>>2318775
>it's excess and isn't being eaten by the bacteria, so there's no way they could possibly starve without it.
yes, assuming you don't want your colony to grow there's no reason to have excess.

but if it's building up that also means the colony isn't big enough yet and needs to grow. Which means you need that excess.

you are one of the drooling retards I was talking about. kys.

>>2318768
Nothing wrong with using it as an adult

>>2318771
That would mean you fucked tour daughter to produce me. You probably should've thought that one through a little more, anon.

>>2318778
Maintaining the excess at levels of minimal risk to the livestock, like 0.25-0.50 ppm, allows the colony to grow at a steady pace until it's as large as it needs to be to cope with the full load of the tank.

Keeping super high excess levels only makes sense you're hoping that the colony will somehow explode in the course of an hour to magically, instantly consume all of the extra food at once.

Which shows that you've been doing this for nearly 50 years and still don't know anything about it.

>>2318787
>implying he wouldn't go for sum wincest

it makes a lot of sense tbbbhhh

>>2317952
Are there any good fish forums you guys would recommend? I feel obnoxious always asking about things here and perhaps I'd like a website that's a bit more, uh... tame to ask about fish stuff on. I came to ask about cycling, but for some strange, unfathomable reason I decided against that. There's fish groups on facebook but my experience with pet groups is that people who take awful care of their animals come there to ignore people's advice and get angry when you advise against putting 8 goldfish in a 10 gallon.

>>2318787
or your mom fucked my son. I love how your mind goes straight to incest though.

>>2318789
>Maintaining the excess at levels of minimal risk to the livestock, like 0.25-0.50 ppm,
perhaps, but you're just trading chronic exposure for acute.

and the anon I was responding to wasn't tracking ammonia, they were just changing water every day.

Keeping super high excess levels only makes sense you're hoping that the colony will somehow explode in the course of an hour
it usually drops to 0 in a 24 hour period. You'd know this if you actually monitored chemistry during a cycle.

>you've been doing this for nearly 50 years and still don't know anything about it.
let me guess, you're the "fishless cycling is a meme" faggot.

people don't do fish-in cycling anymore. Try to keep up.

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Hi I have degrees sort of related to this:
from: "Optimization of free ammonia concentration for nitrite accumulation in shortcut biological nitrogen removal process"
"The optimal FA concentration range appeared to be 5–10 mg/L for the adapted sludge. The simulated results from the modified inhibition model expressed by FA and ammonium/nitrite concentrations were shown very similar to the experimental results."

In otherwords, you shouldn't let it build up. And having water changes can prevent that. Now as for how well this translate into the communal environment of aquarium microbes is debatable. The selective pressures of nutrient availability and source are different between waste water and aquariums. IE the bacteria we are trying to cultivate are not the same as those in waste water, but the premise is similar: you don't want your ammonia too high. Additionally, the growth rate does not appear to be that strong a function of ammonia concentration and the maximum population should be largely independent of ammonium concentration as long as there is excess (assuming batch process).

t. biochemical engineer

>>2318699
1-10

>>2318809
yes, I said this here:
>>2318700

the other anon mentioned it as well.

we aren't discussing that kind of concentration, it won't occur in normal aquarium conditions.

>>2318807
I don't know much, but isn't the whole point of cycling to make water safe and habitable for fish? Why would you subject fish to conditions that aren't considered acceptable in the first place? I've heard people say they use "throwaway" fish. Do people literally just kill a bunch of fish to make their tank habitable or something?

>>2318809
>the growth rate does not appear to be that strong a function of ammonia concentration
doesn't seem likely since we're expecting an exponential growth rate from a linear feedstock.

at best you'd retard the growth rate. In practice you just produce a smaller colony than you need.

>>2318827
>Why would you subject fish to conditions that aren't considered acceptable in the first place?
I wouldn't.
>I've heard people say they use "throwaway" fish. Do people literally just kill a bunch of fish to make their tank habitable or something?
yes.

>>2318807
>perhaps, but you're just trading chronic exposure for acute.
It's chronic either way. If there were enough bacteria for their population expansion to be hampered, in any way, by the absence of ammonia, the ammonia levels would already be lower than 0.5 ppm because it would be being converted. So you're deciding between exposing your fish to low levels of ammonia or high levels, either one for the same amount of time.

>it usually drops to 0 in a 24 hour period.
And when it drops from 0.5 to 0 in 24 hours, the colony will be strong enough to cope with the full load of the tank from then on, especially if it's a single betta.

>the anon I was responding to wasn't tracking ammonia
He had the means to track ammonia levels, since he mentioned test results. Sorry I didn't specifically mention that he should try doing that.

>let me guess, you're the "fishless cycling is a meme" faggot.
No. Fishless cycling is the best way to start a tank, but for someone who didn't know any better and started fish-in cycling, there are better ways of handling it than immediately giving up and treating your current livestock as sacrificial lambs.

>>2318795
The only one I'm personally familiar with is plantedtank.net, but they're nice.
Here are some general articles about cycling.
https://www.petcha.com/fishless-aquarium-cycling-method/
https://www.petcha.com/freshwater-aquarium-cycling/

>>2318852
>It's chronic either way
true, but doubling or tripling the amount of time is no better than a short time with double or triple the ammonia.
>the ammonia levels would already be lower than 0.5 ppm because it would be being converted
unless you're using real-time testing hooked to a controller and dosing pump it often will be. Just because your ammonia is .5 now doesn't mean it will be in an hour.
>when it drops from 0.5 to 0 in 24 hours, the colony will be strong enough to cope with the full load of the tank from then on
It will drop from .5 to 0 in 24 hours REPEATEDLY if all you have is .5 available. And each time it does your growth stops until more ammonia is produced.
>especially if it's a single betta.
which isn't a problem unless the dude adds a second fish, instantly doubling his bioload.
Most people do that without realizing the tank will cycle again.

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Blue ramshorn :^)

>>2318863
Mmm my puffer would love to munch on that

>>2318856
Sounds like we have a difference of opinion. I'll leave it at that. Have a good night, grandpa.

ITT autistic faggots screeching about cycling a tank

>>2318866
So would my axolotl. If I end up with tons of them I'll put some in with her.

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>>2318863
Hell yeah, snail love.

>>2318830
Waaah.
Does that hurt babby's feelings?

I once used a group of the same 5 white clouds to cycle 4 different tanks.

Showed minimal to no signs of distress during any of them. This was 3 years ago.

They are all still alive and well, as well as spawning incessantly. So.... I fail to see why motherfuckers get all uppity about this shit. Its been practiced for decades.

>>2318856
>the tank will cycle again

This is not an accurate statement. When the ammonia spikes during the initial cycle, it spurs growth in the nitrifying bacterial colony. This causes the colony to grow to a size capable of dealing with far more ammonia than a single fish can produce. (With the exception of shit factories like plecostomus) Adding one more fish, will not necessarily cause a drastic enough environmental change to spur a mini-cycle, in fact he could easily throw three or four fish in and still not lose sleep at night.

>>2318852
Thanks, anon. I've still got some questions, though, but I guess I'll just go ahead and ask them here.
>plan on doing 25-percent water changes at least every other day. Bigger and more frequent water changes will be even better,
This seems like a lot more than i've seen suggested anywhere else. Is it really necessary to change water this
frequently, or is this just referring to tanks while being cycled? Wouldn't changing so much water interrupt the cycle in both established tanks and tanks being cycled?
Also, if the level of ammonia or nitrates did suddenly spike up, the solution is just a big water change right? Neither article was very specific about what the actual solution to having out of whack tank parameters is.

>>2318936
>hurt babby's feelings
>uppity
Possibly a minor exaggeration of the words "I wouldn't." and "yes."

>>2318885
>Have a good night, grandpa.
thanks, I have had.
>>2318936
>Does that hurt babby's feelings?
I don't care what you do. I just stated what I wouldn't do. I keep marine aquaria, we cycle with uncured live rock. Much less messy than your thing.
>>2318949
>This causes the colony to grow to a size capable of dealing with far more ammonia than a single fish can produce.
this is an ecological impossibility.
the colony will always be exactly the size allowed by its food supply. It can't get bigger in the hopes that more food will arrive in the future, starvation doesn't work that way.

t. The Reverend Thomas Robert Malthus FRS

>>2318972
The nitrifying bacteria processes ammonia. Algae also creates ammonia. You think a little bit of fish turd shoots the ammonia levels to upwards of 8ppm all by itself?

>>2318961
>Is it really necessary to change water thisfrequently,
no. Most experienced aquarists would tell you that changing that much water is harmful. The frequency and size of your water changes depends on a million different variables and what works for one tank may not work for others. Usually we pick a line where we want our nitrates to be based on the tolerances of our animals, then we test our water, and change water with a frequency that hits that goal for nitrates.

most of my tanks can't have any nitrate at all so I use a different schedule of water changes than say a planted tank where nitrates may be beneficial.
>Wouldn't changing so much water interrupt the cycle in both established tanks and tanks being cycled?
I'm arguing that it will delay or stop the initial cycle, others here disagree.

if the water is treated and matches the parameters of the tank water it won't have any effect on a cycled tank though. Your biofilter is located primarily inside your filter, just changing water has no effect on it.
>Also, if the level of ammonia or nitrates did suddenly spike up, the solution is just a big water change right?
yes, but in the case of ammonia that's just a stop-gap. The ammonia will keep coming after the water change. You need to identify the source of the spike and fix it. In most cases an ammonia spike indicates death of your biofilter, meaning you have to struggle through another cycle of an established and often fully stocked tank. With any luck the spike and the cycle will be short.

>>2318976
Algae doesn't create ammonia.

>>2318976
>Algae also creates ammonia.
yes, and it doesn't magically stop producing ammonia just because you add more fish.

so the ammonia from mulm and algae/bacteria is already being eaten by your biofilter. It needs to increase in size to take on more.

>>2318980
it does when it dies.
>>2318961
>the solution is just a big water change right?
we also use ammonia and nitrate neutralizing treatments, and the old bacteria-in-a-bottle treatment. Both are useful for random spikes.

>>2318976
>You think a little bit of fish turd shoots the ammonia levels to upwards of 8ppm all by itself?
The turds aren't the main problem.

Read up on fish physiology. Fishiology?
You may be surprised.

Shut the fuck up you niggers and get the fuck on.

>>2318979
>I'm arguing that it will delay or stop the initial cycle, others here disagree.


People have been doing W/C during the cycle for decades with good success. And yet you keep claiming that it will hurt it. Are you fucking retarded? Going fucking senile maybe?

>>2319025
See>>2318990

>>2319025
>Are you fucking retarded?
no, I propose that the "good success" isn't a result of their efforts but in spite of it.

most people don't actually test their water through a cycle or even know what to look for. So when they say it cycled just fine they don't honestly know if it did or not. All they know is they did some stuff and their fish didn't die.

your fish surviving isn't proof of a successful cycle on a normal time frame. Fish often survive failed cycles without the owners ever knowing it happened.

>>2319025
or to put it another way-
when I started keeping fish nobody did anything to cycle their tanks.

does that mean they didn't cycle? no, it just means people weren't aware of it happening. Now people are aware of it and everyone assumes they're doing it whether they are or not.

>>2318036
But you're putting chlorinated water into your tank?

I've been leaving an empty tank cycling for almost a week now but my heater only just arrived. I was planning to grab fish tomorrow from a place I've already scouted out but do I need to leave the tank empty with the heater for any length of time? Or just until it's up to temperature?

>>2319079
>I've been leaving an empty tank cycling for almost a week now
That's not cycling.

cycling means installing a filter, adding a source of ammonia, testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at least weekly, replenishing ammonia, and after a period of about 1-2 MONTHS finding 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and detectable nitrates.

>>2319082
Well I'm already out of depth then. I've been keeping tropical fish for years and successfully breeding but I've never done specific testing.

>>2319079
>>2319082

Petsmart employees tell people the tank will cycle even without a source of ammonia. They've been doing this for years.

>>2319086
it's fine, most people don't know how to cycle a tank and they manage. Just do regular water changes and the cycle doesn't matter.

>>2319087
kek
now I want a job there
they've got a point though, it really doesn't matter if they do it right or not, and the actual process is a pain in the ass. They sell more fish if people don't cycle right anyways.

Yfw someone has the spongebob's house ornament in their tank

>>2319082
>>2319087
S ammonia is generated for cycling by adding a few fish at the start, not just the biologica filter stuff?

>>2319090
yep, fish are a good source of ammonia.

>>2319089
My 3 year old son wants that shit in my tank. I scream no and smack in across his smug face.

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>>2319089
>mfw

>>2319074

It basically dilutes the chlorine to cause very minimal damage and even then, you can always add dechlorinator after the water change or just as it's filling up, making only a very brief amount of time they're exposed to it. Unless you have very sensitive fish or your municipal water is incredibly shitty, most fish will be fine as you do as long as the water coming in is roughly the same temperature.
Don't even try it with a reef tank though as you need RO water to not fuck everything up

I have a 110L (about 30gal?) tank, but it's quite tall. Would it be suitable for a large pleco or do they generally require a large footprint tank?

>>2319178
For a large pleco? No. Maybe one of the really small species. 30 gallons in any dimension isn't enough room for a large pleco.

>>2319181
Are there any smaller species that are common with suppliers?

>>2319097
These kind of ornaments can be fun for like kids who are just starting to get into the hobby, but I can't take any adult who has stuff like that in their tank seriously. That shit is just tacky. Stick to plants for your decor, either live plants or silk ones if you don't want to deal with the extra up keep in the tank. If you want a bit more personality in the tank than add in some colorful substrate.

>>2319186
This, you can get some really nice environments going on with rocks, treated wood and natural plants are interesting to deal with too. No one likes your "No Fishing" ornaments.

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Had CO2 tank running for a week .
Its only a 1 L cannister, however still would have thought it wouls last longer than that. FFS !!

>>2319214
Must of had a leak somewhere

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Why is there brown algae all over the glass i brushed it off and got it the last time i did a water change and now its back wtf

>>2319228
Diatoms, do you have any algae eating fauna ? SAE s ,BN plecos, amano shrimo, otos etc ....?

>>2319243
no ive been on the fence now about an sae or amano shrimp but i thought i could take care of it myself

>>2319243
What are some good diatom eaters for an African Cichlid tank? I done fucked up and used playsand, paying for it now.

>>2319183
Yes. Look for clown, rubbernose, and bristlenose plecos. Any of those should be fine in a well-maintained 30g, only growing to about 4-6 inches long

>>2319074
>>2319139
I do one full dose right before I start adding water and another right after I'm done.

>>2319183
Bristlenose, rubberlip, and clown. If the tank is 60 cm long it meets the bare minimum for them.

>>2319290
They're now breeding a dwarf bristlenose. They reach like 3 inches and the god damn Chinese are marketing them for nano tanks.

>>2319260
Larger bristlenose plecos or gaara are usually ok as long as the water isn't stupid hard, from what I understand.

>>2319321
And yet retards still put plecos in African cichlid setups

>>2319320
Oh god, now we have tiny shit factories.

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>>2318927

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>>2319337
Good stuff, love golden mysteries.

>>2319320
Link?

>>2318856
>real-time testing
Do you have something like this? And would you be willing to answer some questions about them?

Anyone know what this is? Saw it a few days ago and it was much smaller.

Too big to be ich and doesn't look like the white stuff of a fungal disease. Maybe he got hurt or something?

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>>2319451
Picture didn't post?

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>>2319337
Blue mystery <3

>>2319245
It will die off eventually. It depends on how patient you are

>>2319245
Someone can correct me if I am wrong but dont SAE get a bit too large and can kick up sediment/plants when looking for algae? Especially if you have a school of them?

I can 100% recommend amanos. Very interesting to watch and keep your tank rather clean as long as you don't screw it up. Mine swim upside down and divebomb the flakes at the top of the tank.

>>2319458
Is there a way to smuggle them into New Zealand?

>>2319461
Why cant kiwis get shrimp ?

>>2319384
no, I don't have real time ammonia monitoring, I'm not sure if that exists.

I do have temperature and ORP probes and controllers. Others here have far more sophisticated controllers than I do though. I bought mine in the early 2000's. Now they have wireless enabled controllers that you can adjust from your smartphone or laptop anywhere in the world. I don't know anything about those but I've seen people post about them on /aq/.

>>2319476
Because it would become a pest if dumbass people release them in the wild. reee

>>2319509
A pest that would be obliterated by fish even the smaller fish

>>2319451
Looks like an injury. You'll want to keep the water extra clean so it can heal as quickly as possible.

>>2319458
SAE get about six inches max. They can knock newly added plants loose, but anything with good roots is usually safe.

>>2319518
I know its fucking retarded

Post hotdog

>>2319458
They get 6" which IMO is too large for a fish that you're utilizing as an algae eating tool plus they can get aggressive, I like oto's, small, peaceful and zip around the tank destroying all the algae in sight, very good in groups.

>>2319596
I'm not home currently. But he's now big enough to eat salad shrimp.

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Anyone have a clue who this little faggot is?

>>2319656
dragonfly larva

>>2319657
For real? It's a totally indoors tank with no outside exposure. I'm not quite buying it.

6 skunk cories or 9 pygmy cories, which one will be better?

>>2319611
What would be the minimum tank size for otos im reading all different sizes and shit all over the web

How many whitecloud minnows can I keep in a two gallon tank? They seem like the smallest possible fish I can find...

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>>2319658
yes it is a dragonfly larvae, they are the scum of the earth, one of my ponds was infested with them; i would recommend you do a full check on whatever you found it in for more of them.

>>2319684
0

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It just keeps growing

Is a pair of SAE good enough or do they really need to be in a small school?

>>2318496
>>2318472
>>2318466
> work at petco
> keep finding empty betta cups
> mfw
it used to be that it would be kids trying to put them in with other bettas in the store and i would find a betta cup with two fish and a puddle of water, or, an empty cup would mean to look in focal tanks such as where the koi/plants are or even the coral tank on occasion. but this shit. is taking it to a whole new fucking low. as if it isn't bad enough that people who buy them don't want to treat them right. as if it isn't bad enough that kids are breaking all my "look mommy it's nemo/dory/TMNT/spongebob!" ornaments. i don't want to live on this planet anymore.

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>>2319730
I know how hard it can be to not generalize people working in retail. Just take solace in the fact that for every fuck head, there's at least someone else helping there fish thrive!

>>2319761
What've you got mixed with your sand? It looks good, very natural.

>>2319777
rat poop

>>2319778
Very natural indeed.

>>2319671
They're pretty small so I'd say 30 gallons for a group of 6

>>2319657
Damselfly larva, not dragonfly. It doesn't have the jaws or fat abdomen that a dragonfly larva has.

One time I was over at the house of my friend's cousin to pick my friend up for his doctor's appointment, and I saw his cousin's tank. He used Funko Pop figures to decorate it

>>2319671
The reason suggestions vary so much is because while it's possible for a couple otos to survive in a small tank, it's very difficult to meet their nutritional needs and it doesn't reflect their natural schooling behavior.
Otos can very easily starve if there isn't a large amount of naturally occurring biofilm in the tank, which becomes very difficult to provide in tanks smaller than 20 or 30 gallons.
A small tank might have enough biofilm for one to three otos, but keeping only a couple of them together very badly compromises their social nature. In the wild, otos live in schools of hundreds and hundreds of fish. And all otos you'll find for sale will be wild caught, which means they've been taken from those schools in South America and shipped around the world before you ever see them.

>>2319669
Pygmy cories all the way. If you get a lot of them they'll even school in the mid level of the tank.

>>2319684
A two gallon tank isn't big enough for a proper school of white clouds and it would hardly give them any room to swim. If you already have the tank, get some shrimp for it. You could fit a dozen or more shrimp in a two gallon tank.

>>2319803
I know but I kind of like that bottom feeding aspect, do they do it at all?

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>>2319816
For sure, you'll just also catch them drifting through the water column from time to time. They also like to hang out together on top of plant leaves.

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Who /vivarium/ here?

I just ordered a special cut tank and is looking to keep vampire crab. Any advice?

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>>2319228
>>2319243
Diatoms are cute!
Cute!

>>2319837
That would actually make a pretty cool wedding ring.

>>2319803
Well shit, alright.

>>2319777
>>2319778
It's eco complete mixed in with Caribbean river sand, didn't intend on the mixing but now that it's happening, not too bad!

>>2319975
Dumb fuck corys ruin everything.

Electric blue acaras have paired up and are trying to mate.

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>>2319979
DELETE THIS

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>tfw somone comes to visit and they go right for the tank
>TAPTAPTAP

everytime.

>>2319778
I can't scroll by this without laughing ,what the fuck

>>2319778
This anon is just JEALOUS

>>2319831
thats a paludarium

>>2320036
>TAPTAPTAP
Misread that for a second and was wondering just what kind of company you usually have over.

>>2320036
I tap on the glass just before I feed.
that way when someone comes over and taps on the glass all the fish come out to see them.

>>2320087
You don't jerk off in your fishtank? My cichlids love the protein

Do people ever have pet octopus'?

What's that like?

>>2317952
Is it OK to keep fish at off temperatures? Somebody told me that neon tetras need to be kept at temps below 74 deg -- which is a fair point considering the area that they're native to generally sticks in the low 70s -- but they seem to be doing just fine. They're in with a betta and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be comfortable at 74-77 degrees. (my tank temp usually fluctuates a bit daily) However, I don't actually have a decent argument to present to them or any evidence.

>>2320139
They are extremely hard to care for properly, and they have a natural lifespan of like 2 years anyway.

>>2320149
>Is it OK to keep fish at off temperatures?
it shortens their life spans and speeds up their growth rate. They also produce more waste at higher temperatures.

other than that it's fine. Most fish can also survive in much colder water than they're kept in. This just has the opposite effects of warming-
it slows growth and waste production. The fish eat less and aren't as active.

>watching one of my new SAE swimming almost vertically upwards into the filter downflow for like 10 straight minutes
I think I managed to pick an autistic one

>>2320152
Less than two years most of the time actually, especially all the smaller ones that you could consider for a tank only get a year old or so. And they're semelparous.

If you want an intelligent and interactive invertebrate get a mantis shrimp.

What' are good ferts for carpeting plants? I have fllourish and excel, should I get others? I'm carpeting DHG and DBT. I also am using flourish tabs and lighting provided by 2x 24/7 planted plus.

>>2320185
Sounds fine. If you want to cover it all get some macros. I personally use dry ferts and make my own tabs.

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Wtf, my blue mystery snail just started eating my polysperma hygrophila today, but I fed him blanched zucchini earlier? Should I put more zucchini in for it to eat?

What would you stock a planted 20 long with?

>>2320234
LOAD UP DEM SHRIMPS FAGGOT.

>>2320220
Snails are grazers, it'll fuck you over regardless.

>>2320234
harlequin rasboras, sterbai cory, shrimp, honey gourami

>>2320234
20 Cardinal Tetras and a black backing board.

>>2320234
Thin sand bottom, lots of smaller and big round rocks and grow algae on them first, few plants, decent circulation pump, and a few hill stream loach with maybe some white clouds. Black background. Would look nice and minimalist.

>>2320277
>grow algae on them first
Is this just letting algae bloom then only cleaning the glass when you change the water? Or is there a way of influencing it?

>>2320281
There's a few ways. The easiest for me is to take rocks and sit them in a window with lots of sun or work ligh with CFL bulb in some water. Then I put the rocks back in and the loaches wil graze on it.

>>2320281
Only clean algae off the glass.

Everywhere else looks nice and is beneficial to tank health.

>>2320287
Except when you're using a large substrate, then it just seems unclean. >>2319761 has it down though.

>>2320207
Ill get Seachem Potassium and Phosphorus. Looking at Iron it seems rather unnecessary.

>>2320057
Symantics

>>2320277
>hillstream loach
>thin sand bottom

You retarded, son?

The amount of flow required to keep a hillstream loach healthy would blow sand all over the aquarium.

I am pretty sure I did a fishless cycle properly. But when I put new fish in they die within a week. IDK what could be going wrong as my parameters are all at 0, 0, 0.

Am I maybe buying the wrong fish? What are some really hardy ones for a 20 gal?

>>2320369
If you are cycled you will have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and some nitrates.

Don't think you are quite done there friend.

>>2320369
Did you add a source of ammonia?

>>2320370
Man is it really just that? Feels like when I was a kid like 20 years ago it was so easy for me/mom/dad to just get a tank and throw shit in it without any of these testing supplies or knowledge of it and everything was fine.

>>2320373
No way, me too, like 20 years ago. Personally I enjoy monitoring water parameters and the science of fish keeping is fascinating to me.

Will two female sparkling gouramis be ok with ember tetra?

>>2320377
Generally. I keep three spots (a pair) with my white clouds (school of 15) in a heavily planted 50 gallon no problems. I think as long as there are a large number and plenty of space for evasion, you shouldn't have an issue.

>>2320379
Mine is a planted 15 gallon, with good plant cover

>>2320382
Sure. Sparkling gourami don't get much bigger than about an inch and a half, so if its a longer footprint, I think you should be okay. I would avoid it in a taller tank, just not much wiggle room.

>>2320386
So maybe get 2 females to prevent territorial behaviour?

>>2320387
Would be a smart move in that much water, IMO.

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So I just got this set up today. On the left is a one gallon vase, and on the right a two and a half gallon punch bowel I found in q thrift store. The plant on the right I got at a local nursery and they pulled it from a pond for me.

My plan is to get one Betta for the bowl, and ten cherry shrimp for the vase. I'm also going to get some more foliage for both, some fine metal mesh for the bowl (so the Betta doesn't jump out), and once the Betta has had a day or two to settle in, transfer about five of the cherry shrimp to the bowl. I do think the Betta will eat them, but I'm hoping not right away at least.

I will get the rest of the supplies and fish on Thursday, so just letting the water sit for now and looking into tiny aquarium heaters like the 7.5 watt one they have at Walmart.

What do you guys think of this set-up?

>>2320220
You should put in as much as he'll eat before losing interest to minimize the risk to the plants, but you might just have a fucker.

>>2320234
I have an axolotl in mine, but I'm upgrading to a 40B because she's a dirty girl.

>>2320382
>15 gallon
Tall, long, or column?

>>2320369
What kind of fish are you trying to put in?
Harlequin rasboras, zebra danios, and white cloud minnows are some of the hardiest fish I've dealt with.

>>2320370
That's true, but if ammonia and nitrite are at zero the lack of cycling isn't what's killing the fish.

>>2320373
Certain fish are far more inbred from farms now vs 20 years ago.

>>2320396
Those tiny heater are usually an "always on" design, so I'd suggest thermometers to make sure they don't get too warm. Petsmart has a 20 watt heater with a preset thermostat (78F) that would be okay for the 2.5 gallon. That plant (Elodea/anacharis) usually does better in colder water.
Since you'll already have wires coming out of them for the heaters, I'd also suggest sponge filters. Without some kind of airflow the very narrow neck on the vase is going to limit oxygenation of the water for the shrimp. That way you could cycle the containers before adding animals, but I don't want to start up that shitshow again.

>>2320407
Would a good couple plants in the vase help with oxygen? Or is the neck just too narrow?

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>>2320396
>one gallon vase
>two and a half gallon punch bowel
stop

>>2320369
Even if you hadn't cycled the tank at all, putting some standard petshop fish into a tank wouldn't usually kill all of them. "New Tank Syndrome" is usually when people dump a shitton of new stuff into an uncycled tank. Obviously it wouldn't be good for them but if you're only adding a few things they shouldn't all die.

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Can anybody help me identify what shrimp this is? They were sold to me as feeder shrimp and only 4 out of 12 survived to grow big enough to walk around without hiding. 3 look like pic related and the 4th looks different. I know there not ghost shrimp but i cant figure it out

>>2320407
That's true. Could be a water hardness issue, possibly. Or lack of proper oxygenation.

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>>2320414
This is what the 4th one looks like

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Another one to help out

>>2320407
>That plant (Elodea/anacharis)
Disregard, I didn't look at it closely enough. I'm not actually sure what they are.

>>2320410
Marimo would help, but I wouldn't trust to do the whole job.
In filterless shrimp bowls people use tons of both submersed and emersed plants in wide-mouth bowls with bright lights, and even then it seems like doesn't work out half the time.

>>2320411
>punch bowel
Kek, I didn't catch that.

>>2320418
Palaemonetes paludosus?

>>2320368
Are you possibly retarded? You must have never set up a stream tank in your life. They don't require the amount of flow you're thinking of. They need a strong flow. Many videos and tanks set up that way.

>>2320414
Macrobrachium lanchesteri?

>>2320416
Ugly Macrobrachium lanchesteri?

>>2320419
>In filterless shrimp bowls people use tons of both submersed and emersed plants in wide-mouth bowls with bright lights, and even then it seems like doesn't work out half the time.


I feel like I just did weeks of research and got nothing but false info :(

I just wanted something freshwater and low maintenance...

>>2320423
>>2320426
Well they do kinda look more like some type of ghost shrimp looking both of these up. Either way im getting rid of them anyway

>>2320432
>low maintenance

if you had to eat sleep and shit in one room of your house for the rest of your life would you choose your broom closet or your living room?

The larger the body of water the easier and more low maintenance your aquarium will be. Anything less than 5 gallons for shrimp and 10 gallons for even the smallest of fish is too small. Idk where you read about keeping animals in vases but it was all bullshit.

>>2320439
>Idk wher you read

Literally every where says you can keep a few cherry shrimp in a one to two gallon tank...

I'll just keep researching till next thursday and maybe just get the shrimp for the two gallon...can't really get anything till I get a proper heater anyway.

>>2320396
If you want my honest opinion, both are fucking awful ideas and I don't think fish should even be considered for tanks under 10g. 5g at an absolutely bare minimum, especially with no filtration whatsoever. If anything, I would put shrimp in the big bowl. Just buy flowers for your mom and put them in the vase or something, I don't know. But regardless, it's going to be awful hard to maintain any water quality in any container without a filter.
Some bettas eat shrimp, some don't. Depends on their individual temperament. My betta doesn't care about fish or shrimp, but he lost his marbles for a while when I added a nerite snail to his tank. Your betta could never touch them, kill one or two every few weeks, or kill them all as soon as possible. It depends.

>>2320448
can =/= should

>>2320448
>welcome to petsmart
>heh, sure you can keep 8 goldfish in that bowl
>just make sure to pick up our color+ flake and some ornaments to keep them happy on your way out

>>2320368
Oh boy here's the old man again with absoutely zero knowledge

>>2320477
I would never torture a goldfish in a bowl, I'm not that fucking stupid. And believe it or not, I have been trying to do research..it's just all so goddamn different it's difficult to sift out what's absolutely necessary, what's just general recommendations, and what is just going to kill everything and waste all the money you invested.

Maybe I should be looking in the library at published books instead of online though.

>>2320488
>here's the old man again with absoutely zero knowledge
that's not the old man, I am.
I don't usually comment on freshwater livestock.

unless you're keeping discus or RBP's I just don't care.

I'm more of a water chemistry and reef tank guy. Sorry.

whats the recommended tank size for one senegal bichir and how fast do they grow?

>>2320491
>I'd never torture a goldfish in a bowl
>I'd torture a Betta in an unfiltered 1gal vase however
At least you have some morals.

>>2320511
>>2320511
Did you even read my post? The vase wa going to be for a few cherry shrimp, nothing else.

>>2320515
>I'd never torture a goldfish in a bowl
>I'd torture a Betta in an unfiltered 2.5 gallon punchbowl I found at a flee market however
At least you have some morals.

>>2320516
Fuck off mate

>>2320523
Enjoy your fin rot and a Betta that'll live for 6 months instead of 6 years.

>>2320525
Jokes on you buddy i dont have fins that can get fin rot

Check mate autist

>>2320527
It's not autism to want to keep fish in a decent environment.

>>2320528
if you care about animals more than you do people you're probably autistic.

>>2320531
What makes you think keeping a fish in something better than an old punch bowl and caring about people are mutually exclusive?

>>2320532
I didn't say they were.

false dichotomies are also normal symptoms of autism.

>>2320534
Fuck off mate

>>2320536
no you

>>2320537
u first

>>2320448
Unfortunately it's a little more complicated than that, but if the punch bowl is as big as you say, it really not as bad as people are making it out to be. Two gallon shrimp tanks are very common, though the shrimp may not breed, or breed as prolifically as they would in a larger tank.
With some more plants and a light, the larger bowl would be okay for some shrimp. I'd still suggest a small filter of some sort, but you can do without one if you have enough floating and emersed plants.
If you specifically look up Walstad bowls, that may give you a better idea of what direction to go.

>>2320425
I've owned and operated several at my local aquarium, as well as in my own home.

>>2320515
Dude, honestly. Fuck these faggots.
Do your research at a reputable site or from books at the library, and join a reputable community like plantedtank.net or the Barr Report, shit even aquatic quotient. I come here to shitpost and troll the amateurs, and that old fart who thinks he's the hottest shit to walk the earth.

>>2320621
I doubt it if you think that.

>>2320643
Hue, go fuck yourself then. Can't reason with an idiot.

>>2320621
Ahh I'm sure. Otherwise you would know.

>>2320644
The idiot being you in this case.

Reeeee!! My electric blue acara are uprooting plants looking for the perfect spot to lay eggs. Reeeeeeeeee!

>>2320494
If one day I try out a reef tank, what would he a good easy starting size? With freshwater I started with a 20 long and seems ok

New thread:

>>2320693

>>2320693

>>2320693

>>2320523
>asks for help/advice
>receives it from people with actual experience keeping fish
>FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING AUTISTS ONLY RETARDS CARE ABOUT THEIR PETS
If you have no intention of listening to anybody, don't fucking ask for advice, dipshit.

>>2320735
That wasn't me. I stopped responding because it was turning into useless shit posts clogging up the thread.

>>2320763
Still applies to the rest of what you said.

>>2320765
I was listening. I'm going to wait to get the fish or probably not get one till I feel like I've done enough research. If you weren't such an assuming cunt you might have realized I wasn't really argueing with anyone, just pointing out that the info I've been finding is very conflicting.

This is quite possibly the most useless fishkeeping community in the world.