Pet food general

>>2313469
copy-pasting from the thread I made a while ago

Hello /an/ I bring a question. My dog (no specific race, a street dog) eats my cats' food. I ask of you, is said food good enough for her? Can I simply buy the same food for both dog and cats and be done with their feeding?

This is the ingredient list:

>Rice
>Extruded soybeans
>Soybean peel, soybean pellet
>Chicken oil, fish oil
>Chicken meal, fish meal
>Taurine
>85% phosphoric acid
>Salt, mineral and vitamin nucleus
>Ethoxyquin
>Calcium propionate
>Liver hydrolyzate
>70% choline.

Is this food safe for dogs? Any specific nutrient is not included in this food that my dog might need?

Thanks in advance!

>>2313469
I don't mean to go off topic but I used to work for a pet food factory back in college. I was in charge of the big machine that made dry food. Here are the ingredients: Powdered Chicken Fat and Vitamin powder mixed with water.
This applies to most European based pet foods: Mackles, Brandy dog food, Cat Club, Champion, Cumfy, and Husky to name a few.

The more you know

I've tried getting my dog to eat kibble, and she just straight up refuses to eat it. Tried all of the brands that are readily available from the absolute bottom shelf stuff to the premium 5 stars with complementary jerk off stuff. Ive received one answer, nah.

I've asked the vet what to do, was told to give her food and leave her be. I endured it for 5 days and gave up after she started retching gastric acid.

Shes 14 month old malamute, sterilized, she'll eat canned food but only for short period of time, ie 4 days lamb and rice top shelf 10$ a can food and then a stint of refusing that food and only accepting the 10 cans I got for 2$ from the disgusting corner shop. Most of the time I dont even bother with kibble or canned I just get meat, bones, veggies and eggs from the shop and serve her that.

Do I just give up completely on kibble and canned, or is there some magic method of getting the prick to eat kibble? Oh and before you ask no she aint fed of the table or under the table there is time when she eats and time when I eat.

>>2315258
You made the mistake of feeding a picky eater raw food.

You made your bed and have to lie in "$5,000/yr dog food bill" bed for the rest of its natural life (10+ years).

>>2313922
Read our replies, you dumb dick. You're going to have to make the food yourself if you want them to share. Believe it or not, cats and dogs are different animals.

>>2315263
I ain't bothered with that, turns out its cheaper to feed it raw food than to donate couple bags of kibble each month cuz she hasnt finished a single bag yet.

What bothers me is the, that food aint enough, better for her to eat kibble/canned, line of talk. Seeing how I went to a dog nutritionist to get a decent diet how right are they or better yet how wrong am I?

>>2313469
Right, anon. I've taken a glance at my dog food spreadsheet. I'll give you a really basic reply.

Go! Fit + Free Adult is good enough that I feed it to my chronically unwell dog. It contains no rice, soy, wheat, oats, corn, millet, maize, quinoa, rye, barley, buckwheat, sorghum, triticale, or spelt, which my sick dog can't handle.

It hass 435kcal/cup, 3% fibre, 16% fat, and 34% protein.

The complete ingredient list is as follows: Chicken meal, turkey meal, salmon meal, de-boned chicken, de-boned turkey, de-boned trout, potatoes, peas, tapioca, lentil beans, chickpeas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural chicken flavour, whole dried egg, apples, duck meal, herring meal, salmon oil, alfalfa, de-boned duck, de-boned salmon, sweet potatoes, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), coconut oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed, potassium chloride, pumpkin, carrots, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, broccoli, spinach, alfalfa sprouts, blackberries, squash, papayas, pomegranate, dried chicory root, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, vitamins (vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, inositol, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, beta-carotene, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc oxide, manganese proteinate, copper sulphate, ferrous sulphate, calcium iodate, manganous oxide, selenium yeast), sodium chloride, taurine, yucca schidigera extract, dried rosemary, green tea extract, peppermint, parsley, rosehips, zedoary, dandelion, chamomile, ginger, fennel, tumeric, juniper berries, licorice, marigold extract, cardamom, cloves.

>>2313922
I already told you that food is inappropriate for both cats and dogs, and to go find something without all that filler shit. Cats are obligate carnivores, so you need to be looking into a canned or sachet cat food that contains only meat, taurine, choline, and a small number of stabilizers or preservatives. For your dog, check dogfoodadvisor.com and research the four and five star foods. It'll be cheaper to keep the dog on adequate dog-specific kibble than it will be to feed it the food a cat requires. Now fuck off and stop reposting every time you get an answer you don't like.

>>2313922
Cat food has supplements that will wear out a dog's kidneys and liver and make her at higher risk for disease.

Buy your dog dog food. Feed the cat on a table or a counter, somewhere the dog can't reach.

Also holy shit that cat food is garbage.

>>2315425
Anyway, that's regurgitation of facts you've probably already heard. So, I feed Go! on a rotation with a dozen other kibbles, and my dogs both do well on it when we have it.

I personally think it smells awful, but that's my only note.

Any aussie shoppers here?
We have been using Black Hawk for some time however we have noticed the recent ingredient list in the Grain free change since the change of ownership and the dog notices it as well, especially in her coat and skin.

I kind of want to stick with an Australian brand and wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with Ivory Coat? As far as I have read they still use potato based combiners, we are thinking the tapioca in the black hawk being the culprit.

>>2313922
>meat is 5th ingredient

Fuck that's not suitable for any carnivore

>>2313469
>Live in S. America
>only cat food brands to be found are Purina, Whiskas, Royal Canin, and Vitalcan
So, which one is the less shitty one? My cats need a low fat diet

>>2315454
Ivory coat is really good if you can afford it. Stay Loyal and Meals For Mutts Grain Free are two other really good Australian foods.

I usually feed my pets a mix of Applaws and Black Hawk. The dog hasn't had any issues but the cats have been getting really soft, smelly poops from the Black Hawk over the past three weeks. I'm reluctant to drop the brand since it's one of the few foods that is relativity cheap and good quality.

>>2315570
A quick look at ingredients for Vitalcan it seems about equal quality to Royal Canin. They are both filled with wheat, rice and corn which is something you really don't want in a cat food. Even so they are significantly better than Purina and Whiskas. I'm pretty sure Royal Canin has some specialized foods for animals with specific needs.

Since green tripe is illegal here, does the dehydrated powdered version have the same health benefits?

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>>2313469

>buy chicken leftovers from meatshop(no bones obviously), potatos and carrots
>make chicken soup

>mfw its way cheaper and more nutritive than giving my money to the dog jew

>>2315570
Which Purina brands are there? I'd consider ProPlan or even Purina One to be better than Royal Canin.
You could also supplement her diet with meat scraps, but you'd have to be careful to make sure that she doesn't get picky.

>>2315865

I highly doubt that, your dog is likely deficient in calcium for starters. Unless you've planned this diet through with a veterinary nutritionist, you're likely killing your dog slowly through malnutrition.

Vet student here in my final year, have done quite a bit on canine and feline nutrition during my time so happy to answer any questions anyone has on here.

>>2315258

You really need to follow your vets advice and stick with it- have you tried making the kibble more interesting? Microwaving wet normally coaxes picky eaters to eat.

Honestly, you don't want to be feeding her raw. I don't want to start the anti-raw debate, but the risk of impaction/ nutritional deficiencies/ perforated guts just isn't worth it.

I have an 10 yo west highland terrier (I think that's the breed, it's a small white dog) and he's pretty fat. Well, it's my grandma's dog, but I still love him as if he was my dog. Anyway, to the point, my grandma feeds him basically human food. Rice, pasta, vegetables and meat too. He does get dog food too, but he mainly just eats the human food. I'm just wondering how bad is it for him? I'm mainly asking because he pukes pretty often and it kinda worries me.

>>2316380
Completely unrelated to the raw debate, but...
It seems like many of the longest-lived dogs lived on a diet with a significant amount of table scraps, and I've read a couple different vet and vet nutritionists confirm that it seems to be a trend.

Comment?

>>2316658
Vets are all in pet food industry pockets and won't admit anything besides dry kibble is good for beasts because it lines their pockets. It's like asking a psych about non-medication treatments for mental illness, you're basically just asking to get shilled at by someone who really wants your patronage.

I disregard all supposed vet posts on here.

>>2316456
The pasta and rice are unnecessary but are fine to feed him from time to time. Meat should be a majority of his diet. I'd be worried about nutrient deficiency if there isn't enough variation though.

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>>2316658

I'd love to see your sources for starters. Second, long-life is a multifactorial approach: it's a mixture maintaining health and avoiding disease. Yes, nutrition is a cornerstone to disease prevention, but as is exercise, weight, genetics and I'd even argue a bit of luck.

So, whilst I would say table scraps aren't going to harm a dog, I'd also argue that the general public are idiots. If you say "go feed tablescraps" that likely won't do it in moderation (and then you get an obese dog), or will feed their dog all sorts even toxic products such as chocolate. It is far easier to blanket suggest no table scraps as that avoids the dog taking in excess calories and dogs being fed onion/chocolate/grapes etc.

>>2316665

Oh of course, I'm just in it for the profit. Right anon- what we want as vets as for your dog not to have malnutrition. That means feeding a diet with a suitable nutritional profile. 99.9% of pet owners DO NOT have a clue what their dog needs to eat. The easiest way for us to ensure that we know the dog is getting a good diet is for us to recommend AFFCO 'complete' kibble- where the company has a legal obligation to ensure their product meets all the nutritional guidelines.

Every vet I have ever met, or spoken to, does not care if you feed wet/kibble as long as it is complete. Heck, if owners want to, the practice I work at will happily refer owners to a qualified veterinary nutritionist to produce a homemade diet that will meet their pets nutrition needs.

Take your tinfoil hat off for a second, kibble is just easy- and thus has high owner compliance. If we were to demand every owner meets up with a nutritionist for every pet then you'd have some very miffed clients. None of us are against homemade diets, we just want to see it done properly- and it VERY rarely is.

I've been feeding my 9 year old small dog Orijen Senior dry food recently and she's doing great on it.

However, last March, before starting Orijen, we got a senior panel and her ALP was elevated. Other liver values were fine. In July a new test showed elevated ALT (161/118) but normal ALP (139/150). Finally, her most recent test in November shows totally normal ALT (45/118) an elevated ALP again (161/150).

After all 3 tests, the vet pushed Denamarin, which my dog takes daily now, but didn't have any opinion on foods or even seem that interested in discussion.

Tl;dr My question is can she continue to eat Orijen Senior even with her elevated values or should I switch foods to something else? The high protein concerns me but she does so well otherwise

>>2317312
Switching food to something more suitable for your dog's health probably will help.

This seems like something that should be discussed with a qualified animal nutritionist.

>>2317312
would switch to Acana for a ~10% drop in protein, which would put less stress on the liver

>>2317152

How come vets sell overpriced food for diabetic cats, when regular low-carb cat foods like the unsauced Fancy Feasts, and Friskies Special Diet, etc. are just as low in carbs and nutritionally complete and much cheaper?

>>2319200
quality of the sourcing of the ingredients can play a large role in cost fluctuations.

in the case of vet pet foods, because vets sell them personally and assume their clients are literally retarded and will spend $50 for a 7lb bag of food when they could just buy sojos/honest kitchen and slop some boiled pork in for a fraction of the cost while having 3x the quality and nutrition

tl;dr jews, surprising nobody