Was T. rex a bird?

>>2301048
it was a dinosaur

>>2301056
Obviously, but those two are not mutually exclusive.

>>2301061
Reptile

No. All birds are dinosaurs, but all dinosaurs are not birds.

>>2301078
They're not birds and birds are not dinosaurs.

>>2301080
>t. creationist

>>2301081
Birds and dinosaurs existed during the same time dumbass.

What is
>genus
>species

The Canadian goose is NOT a dinosaur, that's how evolution works you dumbass.

>>2301078
There is nothing more insufferable than this or the "all dinosaurs have feathers" meme.

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>>2301087
>Birds and dinosaurs existed during the same time dumbass.

>If humans evolved from chimps, why are there still chimps?
>checkmate atheists

>>2301087
That's completely wrong.
What you're saying is about equivalent to saying "Tyrannosaurs and dinosaurs existed during the same time dumbass, they're different things."

Dinosaurs are not 'birds' but they are the ancestors to birds.

If you're asking 'did T. Rex' have feathers then almost certainly yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM5JN__15-g&t=0m0s

>>2301088
Not really, it's just retarded when autists bring it up when it isn't needed because they can't handle that people use the term dinosaur to not include birds, even though that is technically incorrect. I brought it up because someone specifically asked about it, which is reasonable.

>>2301091
A tyrannosaurus is not a species of bird, actually. It's a species of dinosaur.

It's closest living relative is a bird, but it is not a bird.

Our closest living relative is a chimpanzee, but we are not pans troglodyte- and we both evolved from a gibbon like creature.

Dinosaurs are not birds.

>>2301095
>It's a species of dinosaur.
it's a genus of dinosaur, genius.

>>2301097
He's actually right. Also about the bird thing. The species is Tyrannosauridae

>>2301088
>Birds (Aves), also known as avian dinosaurs,[3]

literally the first line on Wikipedia article "Bird."

>>2301098
>The species is Tyrannosauridae
ah, retards.

the species is rex.
the genus is Tyrannosaurus.
the family is Tyrannosauridae.

>>2301097
We nitpicking now

extant (living) birds are quite different from extinct dinosaurs in many ways, so it's not safe to assume that all dinosaurs are the same. For that matter, extant birds are quite different from Jurassic and Cretaceous birds. Time passes, the environment changes... life evolves. Extant birds have been separated evolutionarily from the other coelurosaurian dinosaurs for some 150 million years, so they do look, act, and function quite differently, but science has shown us that they are closely linked by their common evolutionary history.

They're linked by evolutionary history. We evolved from all multi-cellular organisms, but that doesn't make US multi cellular organisms.

Birds may have evolved from dinosaurs, but that doesn't make them dinosaurs.

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>>2301097
Since we like Wikipedia here so much

>>2301101
>Birds may have evolved from dinosaurs, but that doesn't make them dinosaurs

>evolutionary taxonomy allows for groups to be excluded from their parent taxa (e.g. dinosaurs are not considered to include birds, but to have given rise to them),

>The concept found its most well-known form in the modern evolutionary synthesis of the early 1940s.
>the early 1940's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_taxonomy

>>2301095
Yes, like I said, tyrannosaurus is not a bird.
We aren't pans troglodyte, but we still are apes, whatever apes came from, etc etc.
Dinosaurs are birds, mammals are technically fish last I heard, the word reptile is borderline meaningless, and the whole system gets more and more retarded and nonsensical the more questions you ask.

>>2301102
kek

holy shit I want to believe you're this retarded

>>2301103
Your second greentext mate.
Fish gave rise to amphibians, but are amphibians fish?

Single cell organisms gave rise to amoebas, but are they single cell organisms?

Wolves gave rise to pugs, but are pigs wolves?

>aquatic weasel like animals became predatory whales, but are they the same animal?

No.

Dinosaurs are not birds and you're grasping at straws.

Evolution is one animal changing to become a new one. They are NOT the same animal.

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>>2301105
>doesn't refute anything just throws insults

Smart guy

>>2301107
You're just espousing evolutionary taxonomy, a method that was abandoned by science long before you were born.

>>2301108
>The first part of the name identifies the genus to which the species belongs; the second part identifies the species within the genus.

>The first part of the name identifies the genus
>the second part identifies the species

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_nomenclature

>>2301109
You are not a fish you vapid cunt. The reason why we still use taxonomy is classification.

>>2301111
Yes but I am bot arguing this, was just pointing out t-Rex is a species of dinosaur. It did have photo feathers, but was definitely not a bird.

>>2301107
You realize what you're saying contradicts basically the entire scientific community, right?

>>2301111
Fuck you I wanted those quads

>>2301112
>The reason why we still use taxonomy is classification.
we don't use your form of taxonomy anymore.

phylogenetics replaced it in the 1970's.

>>2301114
Lurking paleontologist in uni here. He's bad at arguing but he's right. Dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago and the ones that evolved into birds did not stay the same animals.

>>2301113
>was just pointing out t-Rex is a species of dinosaur.
Tyrannosaurus is not a species.
that was my point and I'm glad you finally agree to it.

Pale anon here again.
>>2301117
There are far too many differences in the phylogenetic tree for them to be the same animal, yet.
>>2301119
It's a species.

>>2301118
>Lurking paleontologist in uni here.
kek

samefagging this hard.

what year are you? I can prove you're not a paleontology in about five minutes, if we pretend your comment alone didn't already prove that.

>>2301120
>paleo student
>doesn't understand binomials
the fuck you are.

>>2301118
>>2301120
Hey guise, electrician here. Electricity is made from a lot of jellyfish in big tanks in the power plants, where it is boxed and is injected into your meter in front of your house. That's where it comes from. :^)

If you want to pretend to be something, at least have some sort of idea what you're talking about. Or even worse, maybe you aren't pretending and are just -that bad- at what you're studying.

>Are Tyrannosaurs birds?
No
>Are all dinosaurs birds?
No
>Did birds evolve from dinosaurs?
Yes
>Does that make them dinosaurs?
Yes

All birds are dinosaurs, but not all dinosaurs (T. Rex included) are birds.

>>2301129
>Or even worse, maybe you aren't pretending
I doubt you could even get accepted to a college paleontology program without knowing how a binomial works.

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>>2301131
Thank you

HOLY SHIT THIS THREAD

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Can you guys recommend any new books and docos on Evolutionary research?

Both the historical progression of the research looking at the main connections between animal
families, as well as new discoveries out of China, etc?

Currently reading The Evolution Revolution, McNamara Long, and its great. https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Revolution-Design-Without-Intelligence/dp/0522853382/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1484822042&sr=1-2&keywords=evolution+revolution+mcnamara

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>>2301048
>No, it wasn't.
Dinosaurs are not birds, but birds are part of dinosauria(making them dinosaurs).
Meaning all birds are dinosaurs, but not all dinosaurs are birds.


All Muppets are puppets, but not all puppets are Muppets...

>>2301095
Chimps and humans both evolved from a semi-bipedal ape actually.

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>feathered tyrannosaurus
When will this meme end?

Why the fuck would a several ton warm blooded animal in a subtropical environment need to be covered in feathers?

That fluffy motherfucker in the OP would burst into flames and get swarmed by parasites if it existed. Why the fuck do you think elephants and rhinos hardly have any hair? Even today's largest birds lack feathers on some parts of their bodies.

>>2301229
I don't think T. rex had feathers, but comparing a carnivorous dinosaur to herbivorous mammals is silly.

>>2301229
T. rex in the OP is wearing a turkey vulture skin.

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>>2301229

>>2301048
No, but birds are Tyrannoraptora.

>>2301087
>humans and chimpanzees exist at the same time
>snakes and lizards exist a the same time

do you really think evolution means every fucking dinosaur just magically turned into a bird? it was only certain populations that evolved.

>>2301120
you literally just proved it wasn't a species though

the other anon said
>a tyrannosaurus is a species of dinosaur

that's a genus, a tyrannosaurus REX is a species.

>>2301209
it's like how all toads are frogs, but not all frogs are toads

>700 pound drumsticks
>KFT
>Kentucky Fried Trex

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>>2301090

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>>2301131

Look at this.....

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>>2301131

....and this.


Notice a resemblance?

We weren't there, we don't know what they looked like.

>>2301426
>>2301429
What's your point?

>>2301119
>t-Rex is a species of dinosaur.
>Tyrannosaurus is not a species
nigga he never said it was. tyrannosaurus rex is a species.

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>>2301101
>but that doesn't make US multi cellular organisms.
It`s time for a protist to stop posting. I`m fucking multicellular and going to keep it that way.
t. proud chordate

>>2301473
>Tyrannosaurus is not a species
>nigga he never said it was
>>2301095
>A tyrannosaurus is not a species of bird, actually. It's a species of dinosaur
>It's a species of dinosaur

if you're going to pretend to be a paleontologist on 4chan you should at least know which part of the binomial is the species name. That's science we teach 12 year olds.

>>2301473
he said it again here:
>>2301120
>It's a species.

Granted, Tyrannosaurus is a monospecific genus, but it's a genus none the less.

>Tyrannosaurus (/tᵻˌrænəˈsɔːrəs/ or /taJˌrænəˈsɔːrəs/, meaning "tyrant lizard", from the Ancient Greek tyrannos (τύραννος), "tyrant", and sauros (σαῦρος), "lizard"[1]) is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur.
>Tyrannosaurus... is a genus...

not that it matters, he fled when I offered to quiz him on some paleontology. Or he pretended to, am I right?

Lurking paleontologist in uni here. You all are wrong and don't understand classifications. Dinosaur is the species, tyrannosaurus is the breed, and rex is the name of that particular individual.

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>>2301579
this

and birds aren't dinosaurs because Jehovah created each one according to its kind.

>>2301087
Birds evolved from members of the dinosauria clade, therefore they are members of that clade, making them technical dinosaurs. All the non-avian dinosaurs then died off.

>>2301579
Uhu....

So Triceratops and T. rex is the same species?

>>2301602
are you a paleontologist too?

>>2301605
I'm asking a question.

>>2301607
You, my friend, have been trolled.
Search Poe's law.

>>2301611
everybody itt has been trolled.

OP has been posting this same stuff every week for at least the last 5 years.

only way not to get trolled is to know what he's doing. Sometimes you can troll him back.

>>2301621
Nope, this is the first time I've posted something like this.

>>2301631
also the first time you pretended to be a paleontology student in uni?

I remember the last time you told that story.

Hi, bugguy.

>>2301634
Top kek with lurking paleo guy in uni
Should be a meme

Lurking paleo uni student here, did you know tyrannosaurus was actually a herbivore and used its large teeth to eat coconuts? Dimetrodon was also a cool dinosaur, they clung belly to belly and used their sails to glide.

Lurking paleontology student in uni here.
Did you know that the Earth is really flat and pi equals three?
Also, fossils were put there by the devil to test our faith. Scientists look rather comical when they try to build "phylogenetical relationships" between them.

>>2301229
>Why the fuck would a several ton warm blooded animal in a subtropical environment need to be covered in feathers?
>subtropical
The western chunk of North America ranging from BC to New Mexico is sub tropical?

>>2301835
>The western chunk of North America ranging from BC to New Mexico is sub tropical?
it was then

>>2301429
We actually have a very good idea how the trex looked. The Sue specimen gave us skin imprints which showed that it had a pebbly skin texture, and no feathers. It also had the imprints where the muscles attached, so we know roughly what the musculature was like. We also know that it was most likely a warm blooded creature, keeping it pretty mobile and capable of running fast enough to hunt down it's prey. Put all these together and it's general size of about 7tons plus the climate of it's time means it more than likely did not have feathers. Maybe it's young did, and maybe it had small crest feathers, but it was not fully feathered as an adult, and no science fact has proven otherwise.

>>2301905
No one is saying it was fully feathered. Most of the feathered reconstructions are half naked.

>>2301905
Actually i believe it was less than 7 tons (it might be true,i don't have wikipedia to back me up,after all) since it was discovered that it's bones were hollow inside,just like a bird's bones,which dropped it's "estimated" weight significantly,possibly to around 4 tons? It could be that it's estimated weight with full bones was 10 tons and then it was dropped to 7 tons after the discovery,though.

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>>2301048
>Was __ dinosaur a bird?
>If dinosaurs were still alive, would they, ______ ?
>It's like a living dinosaur *points to cassowary*

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>>2302806
>dude this [insert modern day reptile] is literally a dinosaur
>dinosaurs got so big because there was more oxygen at the time

>>2303234
>dinosaurs got so big because there was more oxygen at the time
I work with a biology PhD that told me this the other day. I didn't correct him because that's rude and he's a friend, but it's a pretty common misconception.

/an/on is more educated than most when it comes to dinosaurs.

>>2301101
Humans aren't multicellular organisms?

>>2303278
So the uni paleo student meme is actually plausible?

>>2303364
nah, a freshman paleo major knows more about dinosaurs than a PhD biologist is all.

most geology students know more about dinos than your average biology professor. Just different areas of expertise is all.

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>>2302806
>>2303234
>(New Dinosaur Species) Move over T-rex!!!
>omg feathers ruined dinosaurs!!
>Megaladon

>>2301905
The skin imprints were only from the leg, which with birds are none feathered and even scaly to an extent

>>2304137
upper thigh and under the tail.

both of which are feathered in birds.
so that's a poor analogy.

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>>2301118

You kind of failed Phylogenetics 101. Avialae is classed under Dinosauria. Birds are maniraptoran theropods.

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>>2301905

>>2304141

These guys have so far done the best work for a popular artistic restoration of T. rex, and gathered it all in one picture, for your viewing pleasure.

Tyrannosaurus rex is a species of Tyrannosaurid, Coelurosauran, Tetanuran, Theropod, Saurischian dinosaur. Birds share all of those classifications except Tyrannosauridae.

And by that logic, modern birds would be Avialan, Paravian, Pennaraptoran, Maniraptoran, Coelurosauran, Tetanuran, Theropod, Saurischian dinosaurs.

>>2301095
The entire set B (for bird) is inside the set D (dinos)

Most of us agree that birds are dinosaurs.
But are birds fish? Is a latest common ancestor of birds and latimeria a fish?

>>2304448
Fish is a paraphyletic term which is useless in taxonomy. It includes every non tetrapod vertebrate and is akin to 'invertebrate'. In this sense, birds are not fishes. The term that includes bony fish and tetrapods, but not cartilaginous fishes is called Teleostomi.

>>2304464
"fish" is only paraphyletic because it excludes tetrapods.

so if you define it to include them it's fine.

The only reason it's not used to name a clade including trout and humans is that it's not a latinized name. Neither is "bird." So the same objection applies to both names.

so if we treat them equally, birds are indeed a type of fish. Which is to say, Aves belongs in clade Osteichthyes.

>>2304464
>Teleostomi.
also of course "Teleostomi" is polyphyletic and hasn't been considered a clade for over 3 years now.

>>2304472
Well, of course you can do that, and is a valid reasoning, but I don't like the idea. First, fish would be synonymous with teleostome, and it would include animals that traditionally aren't classified as fishes.
It's like making the term 'invertebrate' monophyletic, it would be synonymous with animal, and it would lead to vertebrates being invertebrates, which of course, makes no sense.
Personally, I'm comfortable with paraphyletic terms, as long as they aren't used with scientific rigor.

>>2304474
You're totally right. With 'Teleostomi' I meant a clade with Actinopterygii + Sarcopterygii. Apparently this clade is called Euteleostomi, which differs from Teleostomi by not including the extinct acanthodians, which are themselves stem chondrichthyans.
Oh well, Euteleostomi is what I meant. Thanks for the correction, anon.

>>2304484
we're seeing this whether we like it or not. Obvious example is "Reptilia." I think currently clade Reptilia includes Aves, so we're left with interesting circumlocutions such as, "Birds are reptilians but not reptiles."

I suspect either the paraphyletic common name will become synonymous with its equivalent clade or the common name will fall from use.

I further predict that this will happen 150 years from now, because that's about how long it takes the American public to ratify new evolutionary science.

>>2301061
Birds are dinosaurs
not all dinosaurs are birds

>>2301095
>>2301087

>humans arent primates, humans and primates existed during the same time dumbass.

>>2304493
Interesting... reptile and reptilian. Well, in that case the common term is paraphyletic and the valid term is synonymous with sauropsid, which is all right if synonymous don't piss you off. Myself, they piss me off, unlike non scientific paraphyletic invalid terms.

>this will happen 150 years from now, because that's about how long it takes the American public to ratify new evolutionary science
Lmao

>>2304498
I may be off a bit on my estimate.

I notice it's been over 150 years since Darwin first published his work on evolution and about half of Americans still can't believe it.

>>2301048
i like the image, it's like a huge bipedal vulture.

>>2304503
Those folks don't know what they're missing. This is so funny, sad, and cringy, all at the same time.

>>2304506
on second thought vultures are already bipedal, so i guess it's just huge and wingless

>>2303436
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>2301092
Love this guy's videos

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>>2303436
>Dude, like EVERY single dinosaur had feathers
>Durr, dinosaurs weren't real, they were juts planted there by the government
>Feathered sauropods
>Calling pterosaurs 'pterodactyls'

>>2301850
How is 60 degrees on average subtropical?

t. Living in the continental United States' only tropical area

>>2305560
winter and night time are things.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humid_subtropical_climate

No.

T.Rex isn't a bird in the same way that humans aren't chimps.

Just because the dinosaurs were related to birds does not mean they were birds.

>>2301090
Um not every plant evolved into grass. Not every monkey evolved into you. *Rainbow confetti* .... diversity. ...

>>2301048
no, it didn't even have wings

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>>2307982
Sad kiwi is has identity crisis.

>>2304306
>>2301048
Why would a T. rex need feathers? They're fucking huge. If anything they'd need an effective way to cool their body down, not keep it warm.

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>>2301090
kek ur retarded.

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>>2307986

>>2301048
Lol nigga did it really look like that? Hairy dick looking fucker

>>2304306
>only known T-rex skin impressions are scaled, coming from the tail and upper leg, which are feathered on birds and even other feathered dinosaurs like Yutyrannus
>"let's just remove the feathers from there and keep the rest“
Fucking feather fags

>>2308339
He was making fun of someone that believes in a replacement model of evolution.

either you didn't notice that and you're retarded,

or you believe in a replacement model of evolution and you're retarded.

>>2301429
Posting a shoebill is cheating.

Why does taxonomy keep changing so much? Is it because of DNA analysis or something else?


>>2307986
To be fair a kiwi barely looks like a bird as well.

>>2308437
Because beings are fluid and connected so they'll never fit into boxes.

>>2308335
Feathers can be cooling as much as they can be for warming

>>2301112
>You are not a fish you vapid cunt.
Actually all tetrapods are still fish just VERY MUTATED lobe finned fish.

>>2301229
>Why the fuck would a several ton warm blooded animal in a subtropical environment need to be covered in feathers?
Scientist arent too sure why the fuck some synapsids went HEY DUDE LET LOSE THIS ARMORED SCALY SKIN FOR SOFT FURRY SHIT, evolution is just random mutations that are filtered by the environment.

Oh yes thank for reminding me fur cause mammals to be parasite havens as well.
>Hurr it was to keep them warm
A clusterfuck of shit survived the Permian volcanic winter though WITHOUT MUTATING FUR.

>>2308340
Why did birds lose their teeth? They could ingest food easier with teeth.

>>2308437
If the changes are more recent I'm pretty sure it's due to comparative genomics.

>>2308614
>armored
Scales don't mean an animal was even remotely armored. Scaled animals also get tons of parasites and shit too.

>>2308617
Flight. Makes them weigh less, and birds do just fine without teeth.

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>>2308380

> hating on science

fucking scalies.

>>2307977

Nigga do I have to repeat myself?

See >>2304302

>>2308617
Teeth are only absolutely necessary for herbivores to chew and digest plants better. Carnivorous use their teeth to tear big pieces of meat and swallow without chewing, but if the prey is small enough for them they swallow it whole. See fish, birds, reptiles, etc.

>>2308720
most herbivores don't chew.

most vertebrate carnivores have teeth they don't use for slicing or chewing. See fish, birds, reptiles, etc.

>>2308638
Most Pterosaurs were larger than the average bird and had teeth as well.

>>2301068
Reptile is a very general terms. Crocodiles are reptiles and come from the same period, but aren't dinosaurs.

>>2308851
Reptiles and dinosaurs are completely different species. Two major differences is that reptiles are cold blooded and their legs come from the side of their body instead of straight down.

>>2308863
Reptile is just a meme word. Dinosaurs can also be reptiles, and synapsids too. It just means that they aren't covered by fur or feathers, and may include scales and terrestrial eggs.

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>>2301229
>subtropical environment

But that's where you're wrong kiddo.

>>2301099
>Wikipedia

>>2309277
>he thinks crocodiles and palm trees live in temperate climates

>>2309499
>>he thinks

GET OUT OF MY HEAD XAVIER

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You're all wrong.

>>2301048
>>2301061
it was a dinosaur that had feathers

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>>2301048
You tell me

>>2309826
fukin' raptors dude

>>2307986
Calling palaeognathae bird was a mistake.

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>>2301080
>>2301087
>Using proper terminology, birds are avian dinosaurs; other dinosaurs are non-avian dinosaurs, and (strange as it may sound) birds are technically considered reptiles. Overly technical? Just semantics? Perhaps, but still good science.
>ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/avians.html

Daily reminder chickens are direct descendants of theropods and trex most probably had feathers unlike popular represenrations in media like jurassic park, the scaly reptoid dinosaurs is a XIX century archaelogic meme

>>2309768
YEEEEE

>>2310874
>Daily reminder chickens are theropods and trex is known not to have feathers
ftfy

>>2301091
>>2304497
>>2301298
Why are you people so retarded?

>>2301048
Hollywood still ignore this even if it's make the chance for beautiful cg dinos.