Animal liberation

I shan't.

>>2288331
Sorry I don't have a mental illness

fact:

vegan food is grown in the blood and shit and bones of animals

so it's not really vegan, is it?

the only solution to suffering is humane, sustainable agriculture

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Wrong place to be posting that shit, also,

>>2288331
but I like tuna, and yogurt, and milk, and eggs.
I also like animals but I dont think some people changing their diet will have a significant impact.
also many vegans come off as high-and-mighty. thats not the way to go. tell people they can eat whatever but also tell them about the suffering of dairy cows etc.

that way they should naturally become sympathetic to the vegan cause

>>2288334
I'd argue that veganism is the most logical option, not just for ethical reasons but also for environmental reasons.

>>2288341
I think you seem to be missing the point. For me veganism is about reducing animal cruelty. Obviously, there is no such thing as a perfect vegan but that doesn't mean that your shouldn't try. I also fail to see how slaughter can be humane since it is still prematurely ending an animal's life.

>>2288395
I agree with the high-and-mighty part and that it puts people off veganism which is a real shame as it is the animals that suffer as a result.

>>2288428
>it is the animals that suffer as a result
animals aren't capable of suffering.

do you think carrots suffer too?
what about the suffering of your dishes?

>>2288331
I will gladly be a vegan when all of those fake vegan foods taste exactly like what they're mimicking.
Until then I'm going keep eating my delicious friends.

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How about you pledge to not kill ANYTHING? That way no living being has to suffer.

Going vegan does not stop harming animals. Agriculture ruins biodiversity and soil-based nutrients. Plus the animals that live in soil have their homes disturbed. Harvest has a yield of insects involved. Woods and forests need to be cleared out for farms since farmland does not occur in nature. Vermin animals are killed in order for harvests to be viable. Runoff from any agriculture practice pollutes the air, water and soil. So don't try passing along that veganism stops harming animals. It may lessen it, but humans harming animal life is an eventuality.

>>2288428
Environmental issues are pretty null unless you also plan on living in a Hut made of wood and mud. Ethics don't objectively exist so no one gives a shit about that. Nice try you mentally ill fuck.

>>2288331

I would, but I love spearfishing and it's unethical to not eat what you shoot.

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>>2288454
Veganism is an easy available self-appeasement for people with no understanding of the natural world. Don't expect them to understand that their 'clean' lifestyle is just as murderous as before, except different animals and lifeforms have to suffer instead.

>>2288465
>I've never heard of trophic levels or ecological efficiency

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>>2288331
How about you pledge to not eat because animals still die to get you your fresh organic crops.

>>2288341
I genuinely get the best growing soil for my garden using a mixture of blood and bone and sheep droppings. Nothing from my lemons to my lettuces are non-vegan.

>>2288473
same with you and every other grower on earth

>>2288473
Sheep droppings are vegan, everything else isn't.

>>2288468
>nor have I
To remain a healthy adult, you can't simply eat vegetation, you need supplementation also. And such supplements are concentrated products, working much in the same accumulative manner as trophic levels.

>>2288433
You think animals can't feel pain or distress?
Carrots can't feel pain since they don't have a central nervous system.
Even if plants could feel pain vegans would still be inflicting less of it since meat-eaters indirectly eat more plants due to all the plants that are eaten by livestock.

I'm going to eat extra meat on Jan 1st to undo the efforts of at least one Vegan.

But the remains of my yearly elk are in my freezer. That pretty much covers all of my meat consumption for the following year. If I go vegan, it will all go to waste.

>>2288331
kek <- That one
kek
kek
kek
kek

I am going to start eating game, fish, and the chickens I've raised and slaughtered myself
I'm cutting beef completely out of my diet and will only be eating heritage pork I've purchased from local humane farmers

>>2288645
>my yearly elk
you're doing some other shit you shouldn't be.

>>2288645
Hunting is much less of an issue than supporting factory farming.
Imo, the only problem with hunting is that trophy hunting ruins the vitality of animal populations.

Hell I saw a hunting video where a hunter wounded one large elk bull, then when it fled, proceeded to kill an other large bull. Fuck people like that, you lose the elk, your season is over.

Every time some faggot vegan gives me shit tell them that my dream is having my own small home on the country side and grow my own food, get rabbits and chickens, raise them, love them and then eat them knowing I gave that animal a happy life.

I haven't met a single fucking vegan willing to even grow their own vegetable patch so they never realize that agriculture still destroys the home or smaller animals. It's always some sheltered middle class hipster that is not able to function outside the city.

>>2288331
Fuck off. What I choose to slap on my plate is my business, not the business of some wannabe Eco-warrior lanklet with a piss poor protein intake and an ego larger than kanye's.

>>2288688
So it doesn't matter if it is an endangered species or if it's someone's pet?

>>2288695
he said it wasnt the business of fag OP, not that he would be a dick or would not adhere to regulations of agriculture/ecological organizations of which it is the business of.

>>2288695
Nice strawman. There are laws against that kind of shit. If its legal to eat and won't kill me then what I chose to eat is no one's concern but my own.

>>2288331
No.

>grieve
Lol they don't remember the last shit they took. Obviously they have maternal instincts but they are also dumb as shit

>>2288757
There are countries where it is legal to to eat endangered species. I was just trying to see where you draw the line and why.

>male calves are shot at birth
Do people actually believe this?

>>2288931
some are, but the ad uses liberal use of the word "many" based on the fact that it's more than 50 or so in america per year.

As a utilitarian, I see that Veganism is a foolish movement.
I much prefer the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. This will save far more animals in the long run, while preventing suffering in the short run via lack of nutrients.
Even still, the VHEM saves orders of magnitude more animals than Veganism, making Veganism a negligible movement.
The VHEM is also more environmentally friendly than Veganism in the long run.
Honestly why be a vegan? Opt into Voluntary Human Extinction.

>>2288955
The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement is also easier to implement because it asks far less of humans. All it demands is that humans do not reproduce. Veganism requires you to adjust your diet, and if you really follow the extremes, avoid vaccination, avoid animal products in soaps, etc.
I think it is obvious to pick the easier, and better choice here: join the VHEM, and as a consequence of the many more animals you would save, treat yourself to eating an animal if you enjoy the flavor or protein, or whatever. It is negligible in the long run.

>>2288434
Only when we can have replicated food like star trek will I become a vegan.

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Try veganry each Friday and the Lent.

>>2288945
Can I get some sauce?

>>2288923
My bad. I draw the line at pets and what the law says not to eat. That aside, why would I bother with eating endangered animals? I don't hold superstitious beliefs about magic animal parts, nor do I care for bragging rights surrounding eating a grilled Amur leopard sandwich when I could just have a cheeseburger.

>>2289013
Not him but I doubt it's a small number, most farmers will turn and sell male calfs to beef farmers as a majority of the beef you consume is male. It also depends on the breed, with Holstein meat being pretty subpar unless it's for ground beef.

>>2289072
*I doubt it's more then a small number

Fuck I'm out of it today.

>>2288955
because human is just an other animal worthy of preserving
you wouldn't shoot every single coyote, but they are a pest in some context where they need to be controlled

>>2288931
Since when? I thought they were castrated and then turned into hamburgers. Maybe they do things different where I am though.

>>2288636

This argument is retarded in so many levels. So the plants doesn't breath because doesn't have a respiratory system too?

I'm a paleontologist, and let me say something.
Vegan is based on ignorance in various scientific subjects, one example is here:

>>2288636

That's not the reason why plants don't feel pain, you stupid cunt. Go learn something before repeating this dumb retarded answer.
Of course you don't know, as I said, vegan is based on ignorance. Theres thousands of papers and books about how omnivorous feed had influence in all our evolution, vegans dont accept because they reject everything outside their stupid religion. no matter if theres thousands of researches or papers, if its against your religion, you'll refute.

There's a retarded guy idolized by all vegans (I forgot the name, fortunately) that said "humans aren't carnivores because they don't have claws", nice argue, that's why I see pandas and sloths eating cats, dogs and everything else. Again, carnivores have features, herbivores have features, omnivores have both features, but of course you'll refute because all the research it's a sin to your vegan religion.

>>2288428
>environmental
Do you realize how much land would have to be put away for all that tofu, which takes away land and also kills the animals living there? The most environmental, productive, cost efficient and space efficient way would be to switch from a primarily pork, beef and chicken diet to that of insects. Insects will eat anything, are easy to flavor, breed quickly so there's no huge rise in prices if a few babies don't make it, can be housed in small areas in the thousands, they don't need special grain and they are better suited for eating all types of garbage, even each other.

But that won't ever happen because 'ew bugs', people don't want to eat things that aren't cute.

>>2289092
I can understand why that alone won't appeal to vegans though. You'd have to explain that we evolved to eat like this and now have to, otherwise it's just an appeal to nature which is a logical fallacy

Why are people so obsessed with thinking all or even most vegeterians/vegans are insane?

Most of them just don't want to support killing animals, they aren't the batshit crazy "HUMANS ARE NATURAL HERBIVORES MEAT CAUSES CANCER ALL ANIMALS ARE AS INTELLIGENT AS US" people.

Thats like saying anyone who has anything to do with animals is clearly a peta member.

>>2289129
Vegetarians are normal people that don't eat meat for their own reasons but don't care if I do and aren't religious about it. Vegans are religious and never shut up about their unhealthy diet. It's scientifically proven that vegans have more mental issues than meat eaters.

>>2289129
It's probably the natural response. When someone tells you that what you've enjoyed your whole life they're rejecting on a moral ground they interpret it as an assertion that they themselves are immoral.

I'm all for improving the conditions of animals through willing consumer choice but the kneejerk response seems to be to instantly lash out at at the vegan hipster "meat is holocaust" stereotype.

I don't believe people should be forced especially if their culture, means or just preference leads them towards meat. Neither do i think for a second that just being a vegan or vegetarian will suddenly stop every single instance of suffering from the earthworms to the manatees. What I don't get though is why most anons ITT want to instantly take the discussion and end it their immediately. I like my meat but if someone think there can be a better way i'll give them a listen.

>>2288331
all vegans should hang

>>2288923
well we already know china is full of savages.

>>2289078
>humans
>worthy of preserving

way too small a percentage of us though

>don't kill domestic species that exist for the sole purpose of being farmed and eaten
>it's much better for the earth if we all just destroyed more natural habitats to make farmable land :^))))))))

>>2289174
Guinea pigs just to be breed for eating.

And now they aren't, it's not really hard.

>>2289195
Guinea pigs are still bred for eating, you've never been to Peru if you think that.

>>2288469
This

Vegan cultists should kill themselves

>>2289078
Humans are much like mosquitos.
If we didn't exist literally every species would be better off with zero drawbacks.

>>2288331
Veganism is left wing libcuck propaganda. Almost every sjw I know is pro vegan.

>>2288331
B...But I like dog meat!

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>>2289320

>>2289075
this is true. i have no numbers, but my parents make good money on every cow they have (granted, i'm sure it:s easier to do this when you have 5-10 heads instead of 100 or more)

i believe that the implication that ad makes about male newborns actually has some truth to it in regards to chickens. who gives a shit though, if true, that wouldn't even be the biggest source of waste in mass chicken farming
(((daily reminder to boycott tyson)))

>>2289296
I took a trip to Peru last year and had a guinea pig empanada, they're pretty tasty though a bit stringy.

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>>2288955
>>2288964
Noble ambitions, but entirely flawed - the wilful death of intelligent and altruistic people simply gives more resources and space to destructive morons, industrial magnates and mass-breeders, and makes everything worse. Why should the planet be handed over to resource-owners, third-worlders and retards, when they're the ones who don't care about it?

>>2288331
Congratulations, you have done the exact opposite of what you set out to do and made me want to eat MORE meat.

>>2288955
>>2288964
Are idealism and utilitarianism at all reconcilable? Because the idea that humans would choose extinction over having children and families just so they could eat meat seems very naively idealistic.

>>2289320
>>2288955
>>2288964
You're right; but I, and most Humans, like existing. And while you might look forward to nature existing freely after we "voluntarily" go extinct, I look forward to humanity going on, exploring, discovering, and generally moving forward, even after I'm long gone; something that no other known species can do.

And unlike mosquitoes, we can learn to be less destructive to other species. In fact, we could easily make them thrive more, as we have with domesticated animals.

You might talk about utilitarianism, but in the long run, isn't the most utilitarian approach to both have your cake and eat it too?

>>2288331
so I should harm plants instead?? that doesn't seem to make much sense. If I'm going to harm a living thing why is it worse to harm one over the other

>>2288331

I really can't get behind the idea of being vegan when animals eating other animals is a natural thing to do.

>>2288331

What about all the animals that die so you can grow crops?

Pesticides that kill bees, and the other insects thatay damage the crop
Pesticides to kill rodents, and animals that die from ingesting poisoned rodents.
Traps used to kill rabbits and boar.
Pesticides and gun shots to kill birds, and other avians.

Plus, the land that is deforested and destroyed to initially set up a farm. Thus killing tons of animals in return.

Thinking here from another view, without saying "hurrrr you're eating the animals food". Growing crop kills thousands of animals a year too.

>>2289695
>unlike mosquitoes, we can learn to be less destructive to other species
[citation needed]

also mosquitos arent at the top of the food chain so they're far from useless to other species and they also arent destructive to anything, really.
diseases transmitted by mosquitos keep populations in check, but dont make entire species go extinct. (unlike humans)

humanity is causing the fastest extinction event that ever hit this planet, and there's no end in sight. we're worse than that asteroid that hit the earth and fucked the dinosaurs.

IMHO the only way to get a grip on overpopulation of human-garbage is to genetically engineer humans that dont want to reproduce, ie are less horny in general.
any other idea is just dreaming stupid dreams. you're not gonna stop such a powerful self-reinforcing behaviour (fucking) without getting rid of its ultimate cause (libido)

>>2288331
Test

>>2289806
Japan's already working on that with their "grass fed" population.

I'll only stop eating meat when they grow a plant that is as tasty

Retards don't even realise that if humanity exists, that's goodbye to all life. As far as we know and most likely, Earth is the only planet in the vast universe where life formed, and humanity is the only animal that is potentialy capable of preserving life beyond Earth's existence.

>>2289775
What do you think cows, pigs and chicken eat, air?

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>>2289806
Do you really think 6 billion ecologically-illiterate people in the developing world will submit to not being able to breed? An infinitely easier solution would be genocide.

>"What to do, when a ship carrying a hundred passengers suddenly capsizes and only one lifeboat, with room for only ten people, has been launched? When the lifeboat is full, those who hate life will try to load it with more people and sink the lot. Those who love and respect life will take the ship’s axe and sever the extra hands that cling to the sides of the boat."

>>2289843
Grass? Which unless you're utterly stupid, don't need pesticides to grow. Also pigs eat literally anything. Most farmers block feed them and chickens eat grains and bugs and random plants.

But in a vegans mind arent animals allowed to eat animals. We can't? Your precious crops kill too. So you can't say you don't contribute to any killing.