What are your views on vegans and a vegan diet?

That it's a subject relevant to >>>/ck/

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Vegans taste good. Their diet consists mainly of healthy vegetables, meaning more vegans have more fiber in them, meaning they have less shit in their system

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Never met a vegan that wasn't just generally high-maintenance. I love animals too but you can't just pretend that the food chain doesn't exist.

>>2277801
they're alright as long as they don't yell at me for not being one of them

>>2277923
Ditto

Why do people get so buttmad about people being vegan/vegetarian?

I am, and so are a lot of people I know, and basically no one says shit to anyone who eats meat. If anything, the people without dietary restrictions are more prone to trying to jam shit down your throat about what you should eat. Sure some vegans are pushy, but a lot more non vegans bring this shit up.

That said, I don't even have an inherent thing against all meat. I don't mind eating animals, I just don't want to pay people to keep mass quantities of animals in horrendous conditions their whole lives.

My sister and her family were like, super vegan 'nutritionist' for a while, and were basically insufferable.


Later on it turned out that it was completely fucking her hormones, which was part of what was making her crazy. They're normal now, and eat normal food.

>>2277918
Why is a hypothetical food chain relevant? If you like animals, and can survive healthily without killing them, why not do it?

>>2277801
It's a dietary choice.

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>>2279328
>implying agricultural practices don't uproot and kill local wildlife just you can eat a salad and not get booboos on your feefees
You're just as guilty as any carnivore--if only implicitly.

>>2279336
Right, and the net consumption of plant agriculture would go down without needing it for livestock feed. You didn't address why a food chain is relevant.

>>2279333
vegetarianism maybe, veganism is not, and thus a relevant topic for /an/.

>>2277801
I'd be apathetic to them if they could keep from being preachy fucks. But they can't so I have no respect for them. They're condescending, often have God-complexes because muh-saving-animals-through-armchair-activism, etc.
Also they don't enjoy the taste of a prime medium-rare steak, so by principle they're retarded.

>>2277801
Vegans are mentally unstable individuals that lack the faculties for reason, logic and objectivity. Their diet is only possible in today's society with supplementation as plants lack certain key nutrients in the human diet. They're 2x more likely to have mental illness and disorders than their omnivorous counter parts.

>>2277918
>>2279336
y'all do realize there are vegans who don't particularly give a shit about animals and do it for the environment, right?
>>2279695
i love the taste of steak, but i don't eat it because even the united nations climate report agrees that veganism is one of the best ways to limit climate change and reduce world hunger... so please explain to me how being vegan is armchair activism.

>>2277932
br a locavore instead. if the trend continues (and it is a trend that makes money) it will soon become commonplace and perhaps even the norm. let's get tyson out of business.

>>2279761
>let's get tyson out of business.
amen.

>>2279756

>y'all do realize there are vegans who don't particularly give a shit about animals and do it for the environment, right?

Do you really not care about animals, or are you just pretending not to because other people made you ashamed of your compassion?

>>2277923
Like>>2279328

>>2279347
Are you just going to ignore why it has existed since the beginning of time? Are you going to ignore evolution? Are you going to ignore a well balanced diet?

>>2279764
personally, i care about animals, but the main reason i became vegan was for the environment. this was a gateway to more thorough self-education on inhumane practices in animal agriculture, and now i consider both animal and human welfare to be major factors in continuing a vegan lifestyle. however, i do know other vegans who are not at all interested in animal welfare and instead choose to be vegan solely for health or environmental reasons.

>>2279756
Cows release massive amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Veganism would single handely destroy the world. No in all seriousness a few things that would make the world a better place would be to limit the brown people in 3rd world shit holes from constantly reproducing and consuming more resources than they have. Second is to have China and india use alternative forms of energy. They are the largest environmental polluters. Though China is phasing out coal which will cut down the pollution. Another thing is portions. People want massive portions of meat and don't even eat it all. To grow the amount of food for everyone to go vegan would take up massive amounts of land which would have to be made. Which will kill many things in the area and trees cut. Veganism will not save the planet.

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>>2277918
>Appealing to nature

Same dumb argument as "no animal in nature drinks another animals milk"

We are above that shit my man. I will suckle the shit out of a cows nipples while confused animals watch on, just try and stop me.

>>2279779
Go to China's back streets then come back. You'll want to be a vegan after.

>>2279786
I do want to be vegan. I'm not sure why you thought I was arguing against it. Saying veganism is stupid because of the good chain is just a terrible argument. Humans are above that shit.

>>2279786

See, this argument just doesn't wash with me. I'm a veterinary student, and want to go into farming - I've been to a slaughterhouse, I've done meat inspection, I've passed animals as ok for human consumption at a slaughter house and I've killed chickens/pigs/sheep/cows.

Now whilst I'm going to bet I'm in the minority in terms of people who have actually slaughtered an animal, simply stating that after people have seen some animal cruelty (aka China's back streets), or have seen the inside of a slaughterhouse will make people want to go vegan isn't correct.

There are a lot of educated people out there who having seen the production plus consequent slaughter for our plate and still eat meat. That's not saying they don't care about animals, hell, I'm graduating into a job later this year that is out to protect animal welfare alongside many other of my meat-eating peers.

For me, and many of my peers, as long as production is achieved legally and with as much thought put into welfare as possible then its a business. I am more than happy to eat meat as long as it has come from what I would consider a 'good' life prior, and I know I'm not alone in that standpoint.

>>2279778
...??? the vast majority of cows on earth are farmed to be eaten/milked/used for leather and other goods. if more people were vegan, the demand for this industry would decrease and there would be less cows and less methane released into the atmosphere. dude, if everyone were vegan, cows would not continue to exist in the same populations they do today. you're not decreasing the methane in the atmosphere by using/eating cow products. you're continuing demand for something that is unnecessary and harmful in a variety of ways.

also, the animals that you eat have to eat, too, and they eat a lot of plants. why not just cut out the middleman here? it takes more plants and more land to feed the animals which you then eat than to just use the plants to feed yourself in the first place. look at a food chain which explains distribution of energy.

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>>2279778
look, i even did it for you.

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>>2279798

Actually, are you aware that ploughing fields/creating land that's viable for growing crops provides the vast amount of emissions? (Cool farming by Bellarby et al from 2008).

I do understand where you are coming from, but my alternative argument to that is that doesn't necessarily mean we have to become vegan. Just means we need to convert to eating more pork/chicken which require less land space to farm, and don't belch out methane.

I agree with you that pork and chicken are better for the environment than steak, but people have to eat plants to survive. animals also have to eat plants. people do not have to eat animals. what's listed in your chart for methane emissions from cattle is what's coming from them on top of the gases from the plants. what i'm saying is that it's unnecessary for people to eat animals and doing so uses up more energy than just eating plants, which is what both the charts we put up say as well if you look carefully.

>>2279804
yeah, if you do the research, it's pretty obvious that the best decision (environmentally and for your health) is to stop eating beef, at least non-local beef.

however, one should try to only eat local for any meat (generally) because most giant meat farms have terrible emissions.

also, diversify the grains we eat and use eastern methods to increase yield per land.

>>2279798
>>2279800
???? What does this have to do with reducing the biggest polluters on earth and 3rd world children?

>>2279348
Choosing to not eat meat is a dietary choice. Vegetarian and vegan are both choices.

Why should I care what other people choose to eat or not eat?

>>2279756
>i love the taste of steak
Well then good, you're at least somewhat sensible.
>the united nations climate report agrees that veganism is one of the best ways to limit climate change and reduce world hunger
While I wish I had the time to find that excerpt in what's surely a very long document to verify that myself, I'll have to take your word for it. Even assuming that's what it literally said, I disagree vehemently. Someone else kinda pointed this out, but the amount of farm land needed for /everyone/ to become vegan would very certainly require the sacrifice of gargantuan amounts of land world wide. And of course it's very susceptible to droughts. You seem fairly well spoken, so I don't think you'll dispute it takes a lot of plant matter to equal the energy and nutrients meat provides to the body. Even if we somehow magically made all cattle farms and such into fields, it'd be almost nothing in size. 7 billion people is a lot of people, needing to eat a lot of greens. Like the other guy said, eating local, ideally non-beef meats is probably going to be the way to go. Also, farming isn't without environmental impacts of its own so...
>so please explain to me how being vegan is armchair activism.
That was a generalization to be fair, but how is "I stopped eating x-thing, now I only eat y-thing, because x-reason" anything but slack-tivism? They're not /necessarily/ going to be active in environmental efforts or the like. Veganism on its own is basically nothing in terms of doing something. It's what you guys USUALLY do along side it that makes it part of really doing anything. But veganism itself is fucking pointless, especially here in the west, when you have Asia and Russia refusing to change their appallingly pollutant ways until only fairly recently, and still only begrudgingly. Until the biggest factors creating the problem are taken care of, veganism on its own will be like trying to put out a raging house fire with a squirt gun.
That's what I meant.

>>2279987
If only Beef weren't so tasty

>>2279987
>hurr I'll tell you to do research whole ignoring your image and the rest of your post after the first sentence

Fucking moron.

I eat a shitload of meat for the same reason I smoke weed and have multiple sex partners - I'm a hedonist.

>>2280123
I appreciate your honesty.

I have no problems with it. I believe the people who say they feel healthier and their quality of life has improved because of it. Dairy products isn't something we need as adults, it makes us fat, but we use it in everything when there are many good alternatives.

I mean personally I don't give a fuck, I drink milk and eat meat because it tastes good, but I can't see anything negative about people not choosing to.

I've yet to meet a vegan who wasn't preachy, and constantly had to mention their veganism at every chance they had though. A girl I often I talk to in class is a vegan, and every single day she complains about the school cafeteria not catering to her. There is plenty of vegetables and fruit/pasta dishes, but that isn't good enough! She seriously expects the cafeteria to prepare varied vegan food specifically for ONE student every day.

When someone brings cake to class she also has to mention it. Just as a side commentary "oh haha another thing I can't eat. You can use soy you know!"

It's annoying to listen to and no one cares.

I could not healthily be a vegan because of other food restrictions.

Also, I feel it would be hypocritical. First because I keep for carnivorous pets. Second because I'm getting into taxidermy. And while I'm doing the taxidermy on pest species and for an educational purposes, it still feels like it would be hypocritical.

>>2280190
*four carnivorous pets.

Anyway, I don't care what other people do as long as they don't rub my nose in it. That sort of behaviour pisses me off.

>>2279795
>Makes the impossible to save some animals.
>Mass murders and eats the others.

Logic pretty much?

I thought this was going to include discussions on people who feed their dogs' vegan diets. I'm sure many dogs can survive on it, but can they truly thrive? It seems cruel to impose your lifestyle onto an animal that naturally eats meat.

>>2281100

I'd eat cat/dog/guinea pig/rabbit/any other 'pet' animal if it was farmed for food: the problem is that farming dog/cat for meat is not only woefully inefficient given it is a carnivore, but also not culturally acceptable in my country.

For me, there's a huge difference between produce animals and pets, sure you can get a pet cow but then you accept it no longer becomes produce animal.

Now before you jump down my throat, I still believe any produce animal should be treated with a relevant level of respect, a level of welfare whilst its alive and is entitled to quick death.

>>2281110

Technically, from a purely nutritional standpoint - dogs could in theory survive on a vegan diet provided the correct ratio of nutrients were given. Cats however could not, due to the taurine requirement (unless someone else can dig up data otherwise I believe the current research suggests cats cannot digest synthetic taurine properly).

'Thrive' to a nutritionist is a very objective statement. To put this in perspective, we currently have a client with an overweight dog under one of my supervisors. We have stuck said dog on a weight loss diet, it's a low calorie kibble which is nutritionally complete: the dog is not malnourished, however his coat is 'duller' on the new food.

Technically, both his old diet and the new one cover his nutritional needs, however does the fact his coat is not as shiny indicate he is not 'thriving'? I could dig up a full set of bloods for you to prove he is not deficient in any vitamin/mineral/nutrient, and he is also loosing weight on this new diet.

Whilst I would personally agree that our dog here isn't 'thriving' on this new food, his coat is an indication of that, it's a really objective statement. My supervisor would argue that because his nutrition needs are being met he is 'thriving' nutritionally. So technically, yes, if the food is nutritionally complete a dog could live quite happily on it- you have to understand the word thrive is an objective statement. Thriving to one person might be very different to another!

>>2281247
Always great to hear from an expert and to hear an objective and informative response. Thanks!

>>2279804
>Just means we need to convert to eating more pork/chicken which require less land space to farm, and don't belch out methane.
Remind me what chickens and pigs eat

>>2279756
>lifestylism

Read more you bleeding heart fag, there is no ethical consumption.

As long as they aren't fussy and preachy about it, I don't care. Personally I think veganism is dumb though.

>>2279756
World hunger is only an issue because the poorest countries are the ones where the birthrates are sky high. Let them starve, hopefully it'll curb the overpopulation they're contributing to.

>>2280115
i agreed with the post you dumbass.

>>2279328
>can survive healthily without killing them
I respect vegans, but they need to watch out for a number of health problems caused by nutrient deficiencies.
I actually know someone who was a sensible, non-preachy vegan for environmental/animal rights purposes that didn't push it on others.
She had to partially recant and revert to a vegetarian diet because of various vitamin and calcium problems that came up.
I guess you could take shitloads of supplements, but it's expensive and not as good for you as getting these nutrients naturally.

>>2279804
No, we need more soldier fly larvae.

The only thing I hate about vegans is if you're friends with them, you'll have to make constant accommodations for them when together if it involves food

>having to look for a vegan place if people want to stop by for a bite to eat
>other people in the group may not even like any of the options there for food
>only "nearby" vegan places are fairly out of the way and hipster as fuck teeming with nu-males and are expensive as fuck
>if throwing a party, unless they're bringing their own food as if it was a potluck, needing to buy vegan party food options that's not just salad that everyone else may not even eat.

>>2277801
Lame and gay

Seems like a try-hard, holier-than-thou way to redeem themselves for being inherently terrible people

If I get a $1 for every time I see a vegan who hates people, I'll have buy myself a new PC