Big Game Hunting

>>2209154
>Piers the gunbotherer Morgan

Do you know the differnce between propaganda and truth?

Hes about banning self defence guns for the vulnerable, banning big game hunting is just a vehicle for that.

Furthermore hes trying to draw a link in your mind between endangered species and hunting where there is none. Gun owners dont hunt endangered species, the majority of gun owners dont hunt atall and get squeemish about it, just ask /k/.

I could say more but thats enough for now.

>>2209154
Good for her. I bet everything bit of meat was used.

I get people being pissed when it is rhinos or whatever, but for some reason the general public seems to hate this because they think all large african animals are endangered.

Yet that 12 year still has probably done more for conservation on the long run that I or anyone else has even if it is indirectly.

>>2209163
>>2209188
>>2209200
>>2209211
Every comment so far is condoning her actions

Please let this be a vocal minority. Otherwise let me put some lead through your asses you sick fucks

>>2209244
I wouldn't hunt a giraffe myself, but please explain how this is any worse than going out and shooting a deer.

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>>2209244
Let this be b8

realistically speaking, there is no reason for people of the western civilization that wastes more food than it consumes, go out of the way for recreational purposes to shoot and kill an animal. Doesn't matter if it fed people or not. Its wretched excess and materialism still embodied in the actions. The people who get this food are being spoiled without consequence thus will become lazy. I wouldn't specifically condone someone for these actions - however they need to realize that their action is an empty void.

>people complaining about the posing

She's 12 years old. As long as her family continues donating all that money and meat, why give a shit?

Fat titties for a 12 yr old

>>2209279
You more or less summarize my feelings, very articulately put, anon. Big game hunting, especially these organized safari hunts where they put an animal in front of you and just let you blast it, are vapid, pointless, and just sort of silly on the cosmetic scheme of things. But at the same time, if the hunt was conducted legally under the laws of the government of the country, then what exactly can I condemn?

>>2209244
People who respect self defence have to be ready to debate every moment, precisely because they are descriminated against for being a minority.

What you may not like, is that their usually right due to this debating experiance.

This isnt simply vocalisation. This is debating. Incidentally, i noticed you couldnt refute my argument here:
>>2209163
So dont go stigmatising us as just being vocal when you arnt brining any counter arguments, because thats just bias.

There is no reason why the human species can not ascend beyond the savagery of slaughtering other wild animals for thrills.

There is no reason why, during the 6th mass extinction event, humans should not be charged/imprisoned for crimes against nature by killing threatened mammals

>>2209288
>But at the same time, if the hunt was conducted legally under the laws of the government of the country, then what exactly can I condemn?
>>2209279
>wastes more food than it consumes,

These safaries are not random violence. These animals are effectivly farmed for the hunters, arnt endagered and is one of the few ways african governments can make money.

However, i personally cannot understand the pleasure of killing an animal, but i recognise that some people want to keep the hunting mentality alive because humans used to hunt for food in ancient times.

>>2209244
This same edgy faggot minority materializes every single time this topic appears. The fact it's about a 12 year old girl this time will only make them more rabidly sympathetic to the primal-but-depraved enjoyment of incredibly unresourceful death.

>inb4 "muh deer hunting which is nothing like trophy hunting"
>inb4 "b-but you like eating meat and using animal products, therefore some rich cunt has the right to kill a big African mammal and leave it rotting in the sun after he's taken his selfies and fucked off"
Get some new arguments niggers

>>2209292
A giraffe is not a threatened mammal.

I don't support recreational hunting really, but it bugs the shit out of me that no one cares when someone shoots a deer, but the same people lose their mind when someone kills a giraffe or etc.

>>2209299
Her family ate some of the meat and donated the rest to the needy.

This is in addition to the money paid to the safaris just to be able to hunt there.

>>2209296
>people want to keep the hunting mentality alive because people used to hunt for food in ancient times
People still do hunt for food. Trophy hunting tourists are almost entirely Americans, yet America is internationally-known for its home-grown hunting culture, where people actually do often still use the meat and resources of prey. Maybe these spineless bores should actually hunt in their own country (for a fraction of the price) and help take out a few pest animals like deer with their fellow countrymen, instead of the elitist, wasteful, ego-driven shit they get up to in Africa.

>>2209296
If I were to condemn food waste, I would start at home. The volumes of food wasted by almost every first world country is staggering. It seems silly of me to rail against trophy hunting for food waste when the issue is horrible at home.

>>2209310
Would you also condemn rich Africans for traveling to America to hunt deer and buffalo?

>>2209244

Species traitor.

>>2209312
Youd be much better off with starting with grocery stores and etc. It seems like people waste a lot of food at home, but it is an absolutely horrifying amount that is wasted by the actual stores.

>>2209244
Sure she is killing an animal. But even if not was a rhino she still would be contributing more money into conservation than most people get mad about it. If it wasn't for hunters I'm sure we would have lost more animals and habitats. Their goal might be a trophy but it has long inspired and encouraged, many protected land. Even in the US much of it used to be private land that was donated by hunters. They want to hunt, but they want the animals they hunt thrive. Even with more vulnerable animals, legally this is fine. They have a limit. That short pass they have to hunt doesnt even mean they will get that huge perfect male they want despite all those thousands of dollars. They have encouraged poor as fuck people to let animals live off their private lands. They encouraged them, despite having the full about to level everything into farmland to let nature grow just so these rich people can hunt and these animals thrive.

I morally do not think it's right to only hunt a animal for the biggest you can find and only take the horns/antlers/skin you can get. But that thousands of flats they put into it-, what place and game reserve they did it at all gets money back. They can save and rebuild populations. They already have to deal with poachers which costs money out of their pocket. Allowing regulated hunting not only lets some people want they want but you KNOW money is going back into them to help keep it stable and the area good enough for the animals. Think of it as the lesser or two evils rather than black and white. Actual poaching is enough of a problem. There are plenty in Africa who have been killed and risk their lives for to protect it enough. Rich people are not the problem now. Go out with those rangers who are poor as fuck trying to manage the jungle, get shot by real poachers and then complain.

>>2209324
It's life or death to them and they aren't fighting 12 year olds who actually contribute something. Even with rich people hunting elephants families flock to harvest the meat that would be fairly insane to try to import back into their countries.

>>2209211
You dont have to like it. It's be great if everyone can leave animals alone but realize it's not the case. Loving animals enough to want to leave them alone is not enough and realize these people have spent more money than you ever have to protect them, whether it's directly or not.

>>2209312
>"x is bad but y is worse, so x is acceptable"
Hello cucko

>implying anything done with unearned wealth is moral
they should all be in work camps

>implying killing a giraffe is wasteful
Mother nature reclaims her own. Scavengers, insects, plants; they all use the nutrients from the dead animal. There is no waste, unless you're a close-minded and humano-centric.

>>2209310
Boar are a bigger problem.

>>2209312
>The volumes of food wasted by almost every first world country

Im detecting a white guilt bias in you.

The level of waste of food in first world countries is partly due to the enforcing of strict sell-by dates intended to keep people from becoming sick. This is not waste, this is the running cost associated with a first world country. The third world isnt in difficulty because we are hoarding all the food, their in difficulty because they have not or cannot develop their coutry to a point where they can have their own sell-by dates.

>>2209330
The meat went to orphanages. Trophy hunting is fairly humano-centric.

>>2209325
>these people have spent more than you have to protect them
Clearly your definition of protection is different to others. It's like saying the meat industry has spent far more to protect livestock than any vegetarian, or animal testing facilities protect monkeys and chimps etc. far more than any typical animal lover.

I find all hunting stupid if it's for sport. Why hunt if you're not going to eat them or use their fur?

>>2209344
It's been stated several times in the thread that the meat is used.

>>2209346
>the meat is used
If this is standard procedure as you suggest, then some evidence would be nice

>>2209346

Then there's no problem. I'm vegan but I don't mind regulated hunting as long as the animal is not endangered or a mother.

>>2209333
And my point is, why would I give a fuck about some idiot paying 5 digits to blast an animal in the face, and outcry the food wasted there, when the problem is happening at home?

Both are low on my outrage meter, but I'd rather do something about food waste at home before condemning trophy hunters for engaging in an act that wastes food.

>>2209354
http://conservationmagazine.org/2015/10/what-if-we-banned-trophy-hunting-in-africa/

>>2209154
How about the zoo that killed a couple giraffes and fed them to their lions because they had too many and no other zoo wanted them?

>>2209370
I feel a little iffy about zoos, but this sounded like an acceptable solution.

>>2209255
It is no worse. Both are murder, and both are reprehensible, heinous, and unscrupulous exercises of a callous disregard for the sanctity of life.

>inb4 "muh mcdonalds"

I don't eat meat

>>2209270
Isn't it shocking that some visitors to this Cambodian handball forum actually care about Cambodian handball? Wow so b8 xd

>>2209291
Tunnel vision: the post.

Stop dragging everything down into a debate about "muh second amendment".

I don't give two shits about guns. Have them, don't have them, I literally could not be bothered to care either way.

I care about animals. Own whatever weapon you want, but don't use it to dispatch innocent lives for your twisted enjoyment.

>>2209299
Agree on everything, except the fact that funding animal products industries while maintains those views is a little hypocritical.

Anyway, beggars can't be choosers, so you're a friend in my eyes.

>>2209314
>muh humanzzz

Bet you frequent pol too? No human suffers from being disallowed from fucking slaughtering non-humans.

False dichotomy; it's not us vs them until you force it to be by taking lead to a benign zebra's skull.

>>2209324
>The best way to save animals... Is to kill them!!! Who would have thought, right?

Please fuck off. Large mammals have very long gestation periods, and no one in their right mind could reason that hurling cash at a dead animal is better than just not killing it to begin with.

>>2209394
B8 is overboard m8 you tried too hard and it isn't working 3/10

>>2209279
This

>>2209394
>murder

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>2209475
Did you get what I meant by it? You did? Then stop pettifogging with pedantry and address my actual arguments, thanks

>>2209296
>is one of the few ways african governments can make money.

Animals must suffer because African governments are incompetent? If your only form of incoming is taking animals and having white people shoot them then why are we keeping them alive? We might as well just have no contact with these africans and just have the Africans go extinct.

>>2209300
Just because its not threatened doesn't mean you dont fuck up the genetic diversity by killing the alpha males and healthy strong adults that would normally never be killed in the wild.

>>2209506
They don't. They kill the really old males, or problem animals that are fucking up farms that would be killed anyway, or ranched animals, etc etc.

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what's so glorious about hunting with a rifle

you're always gonna win or at least go home safely no matter your skill level

it'd be like an mma match where one guy specializes in firearms and gets to carry a loaded pistol

>>2209244
Every comment on what? Youtube? congratulations retard. You're listening to a vocal minority who aren't even old enough to understand how the real world works. Most far right people were that dumb and idealistic at 13 as well.

>>2209279
Yes, People who get treated to some nice meat a couple times a month are now being spoiled.

Fucking retard

>>2209211
One might argue that paying large sums to hunt an exotic animal does a lot to glorify the activity. And given that the animal that comes from an ecosystem that's not only more biodiverse but more sensitive to poaching, that can risk doing a lot of damage in the long-run.

>>2209487
Use your big boy words, fuckwit. Use the word that is appropriate to what you're trying to say instead of appealing to emotional anthropomorphism. Otherwise, you can expect nothing but pedantry in return.

You laid out a string of opinions, not arguments.

>>2209154
The fuck? How the hell can anyone be stupid enough to compare an invasive domesticated species with wild species in their own native environment?

Forget everything else, someone needs to call this idiot out on this bullshit!

>>2209163
I thoroughly enjoyed watched Ben sharpiro fuck Morgan up the ass on his own TV show.

>>2209503
This, fuck Africa
>>2209515
Simply untrue
>t. used to have a South African lecturer who worked on the lion farms and got disillusioned, and turned to big cat conservation

>>2209665
Eh, don't frame an entire continent for the poor judgement of some politicians and landowners (and the hunters who pay them). Although I tend to agree with both of you.

>>2209394
>I don't eat meat
You still use a shitton of animal products whatever you know it or not.

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Animals aren't more valuable just because you find them cute.

Hunt whatever the fuck you want, so long as its not endangered. And feel free to hunt endangered animals too if it's part of a program that supports their conservation - i.e. hunting old genetic stock and paying exorbitant sums of money for the privilege which goes on to fund conservation.

Everything dies. So long as animals are killed humanely and sustainably it doesn't matter if it's when they are two weeks old or two decades old, and it doesn't matter if they're ants or lions.

Trophy hunting and canned hunting is degenerate, though. But we don't ban everything that's degenerate because it takes all sorts to make a world.

>>2209370
>>2209372
Other zoos did volunteer to take them, but only because of public outcry. The giraffes had no genetic value so they would have been a waste in any zoo.

>>2209669
>b-b-but you can't b-be a true vegan!!!
>animals r in EVERYTHING

If the purchase of a product does not fund industries which exploit animals, I don't give a rat's ass whether some cat fur found its way into my fucking toothpaste.

Find a better argument instead of the same old canned retorts a toddler with autism could shut down.

>>2209394
Animals murder each other and humans are animals. Cats and Orcas kill for sport/fun, and most humans disagree with that notion.

As soon as I can I'll hunt just to put natural meat without the fucking chemicals on my plate since meat is a necessary part of a human's diet and why we evolved past other great apes intelligence wise.

I disagree with trophy hunting but this is more of a gun grab thing, which I'm entirely against.

>>2209715
It's trophy hunt where the meat goes to starving dumb Africans

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>>2209719
What a waste.

But nah that's fine if it gets use, honestly. Saves charities some work.
So basically the girl did nothing wrong and OP is a retarded vegan, like, the "MY SISTERS DIDN'T ASK YOU TO EAT THEIR EGGS" kind?

>>2209723
Yes. Money supposedly goes into helping conservation and the community and the lazy negros get free meat.

>>2209715
>Animals murder each other and humans are animals. Cats and Orcas kill for sport/fun, and most humans disagree with that notion.
Animals also engage in non-consensual sex and cannibalism, doesn't mean that we should do it too.

>>2209154
No doubt that daddy's money paid to shoot the animal went to some conservation effort and the carcass was used, etc. etc. I don't really have an opinion on it as long as the shooting itself had an ethical outcome of some kind.

I just don't recall many 12 year old girls I knew growing up who, upon looking at a giraffe, would think "Yeah, I wanna shoot that!" What kind of kid wants to shoot exotic wildlife that can't be found in their backyards, nor in every zoo? Wouldn't it be more fun for them to go on a safari or feeding experience with this kind of animal, and maybe shoot other traditional game animals? It's honestly hard for me to flesh out what exactly I find unsettling about this, but I find it hard to believe a kid would take specific interest in this kind of shit unless the parent were puppeteering her to do so. That to me is skeevy.

>"But anon you can't just spare cute animals. Most animals are fair game to shoot with the correct permissions."
I know, but we already anthro so many other animals I just don't see how making one more anthro connection to add to the pile is a bad thing. It's not like giraffes are insanely common. Like how in western societies we refuse to eat dogs or cats because people distinctly consider these as pet animals who have the same emotional weight as babies to some folks. It doesn't matter that they're numerous and often feral, fact is if you were caught shooting at these animals you'd be arrested.
Yet cows and pigs can be quite cute in environments where they are taken care of as well and yet people largely regard them as meat animals.

>>2209154
They support the reserve by paying money for the hunt. The rarer the beast, the more money it costs.

Consider threatened species like the elephant and lion. In a perfect world, you would have massive reserves, and expand both their space available and their numbers. In reality, they may have a limited space, a small number, and a male that is too successful. In order not to have every animal in the reserve related, they will cull the male. They usually do this by asking these big game hunters to pay big bucks. The male is culled, and the reserve gets funding.

You also have corrupt counties such as Zimbabwe, where the ruler gets a lion pelt for his 80th birthday, and he tries to get cash anyway he can so that his wife can have a shopping spree in China.

If it does some net good (e.g. supports conservation efforts or something) then as a program that they have set up I am basically okay with it.
However, when it comes to the actual people that take part in the program, I think they're useful villains, so to speak. If I give some poor inner-city child a full ride through college provided I get to stomp his pet dog to death, the two actions don't negate each other (I understand that this is an extreme example, but I wanted a situation where the point is clear). It was great of me to help this kid out, but at the moment when I hold that foot above his dog the morally right thing to do is to stop, because I don't need to kill this animal in order to give the kid the promised ride (note the difference between my moral situation and the child's, who is letting his dog be killed for his own personal gain [an immoral act, surely]. The child has to let the dog die for this net good to take place, but I don't.).

Essentially, I'm saying that you can't "buy" morality, and if you place any stock in animal life as something with innate value then it is a moral wrong to end it. Therefore, while the contributions that these trophy hunters give to conservation efforts are appreciated and are a moral good that they should feel proud about, they don't negate the moral wrong of killing an animal that you don't have to kill.

However, there are subtleties, as well, like if you eat meat anyway and use all the meat from this animal you killed then you're not really committing any more moral wrong than the sum of all the meat you would purchase typically (and possibly less if you are more efficient with the animal's body than the slaughterhouse and butcher are with the meat you would have had in its place). Of course, this scenario assumes that what you're killing has the same "value" as a meat animal like a pig or a cow that you would typically be eating, which is really up for debate depending on the specific animal.

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>>2209747
>non-consensual sex
serial rapist reporting in

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>>2209154
>Piers Morgan asked her "How would you feel if I killed your pet cat?"

>>2209154
>Piers Morgan asked her "How would you feel if I killed your pet cat?"
I had no idea Piers Morgan posted on /an/.

I guess thats cool. Kind of bugs me that a 12 year old can take down animals thrice her size though. Hunting in african hunting preserves must be like shooting fish in a barrel.
May as well line them up in an abatoir and let the hunters push the button.

Does help conservation, but i hope the hunters dont take too much pride in killing an essentially caged animal.