Bull Terrier circa 1915

The breed became obsolete, and squat, ugly nasty people took hold of it post-war, taking the breed in a direction to appear like themselves.

Those still exist. They're called Hinks Bull Terriers. They're rare but people still breed them.

I don't understand the exact decision on why they changed the muzzle. There's no practical reason for it and, despite what they say, it isn't historical either. They probably just wanted a unique looking breed since the original is similar to a Staffie.

"breeders" happened.

Breeders are the worst enemy of dogs.

>>2205303
Literally what

>>2205306

Not that anon, but a lot of breeders are in some weird sense of denial about the faults of their breeds. Instead of doing what's best for the breed they try to stick as close to the breed standards, even if it causes numerous health and behavioral problems. They also make up histories to go with their breed standards. English Bulldogs noses are supposedly squashed to keep bull blood out of their eyes yet the dogs muzzles weren't squashed like that 200 years ago.

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>>2205306
People began breeding dogs to make their features look more exaggerated, fueled by the Pedigree movement.

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>>2205358
I have several of these. They are taken from the BBC documentary "Pedigree Dogs Exposed"

https://vimeo.com/17558275

Delves into the dark side of this intense selective breeding and the problems it is causing these dogs.

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>>2205359

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>>2205361

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>>2205362

>>2205349
I heard the nose was squashed so they could keep breathing while they have a hold of the bull

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>>2205363

It's terrible

>>2205359
Am I the only one who really likes the appearance of the modern bull terrier? Nice, long, equine face.

Also it doesn't cause any physiological ailments afaik and is partially responsible for their having among the highest bite force quotients of any breed.

I am staunchly opposed to inbreeding and "purity" pedigrees, but this specific case doesn't seem too bad honestly

>>2205264
They aren't purebred Bull Terriers though, hence the new breed name, Hink's Bull Terrier. They had to out-cross them and cross them back again.

>>2206082
It has been known to cause dental issues because of the skull shape.

>>2205375
That's not true. with how a Bulldog's nose is so flat, if they tried to bite on a bull they'd end up suffocating. If you look at care sheets for them, they even say to be wary of heat and exercise because they have trouble breathing. Not a good candidate for attacking a bull. They looked more like boxer snouts, but not as exaggerated as today's English bulldogs.

>>2206092
>It has been known to cause dental issues because of the skull shape.
Name a dog breed that doesn't have serious medical issues. They're all genetic trainwrecks because of how much they've been fucked with since the dawn of time.

>>2206098
Working dogs, like malinois shepherds and border collies don't have as much issues though.
>>2206092
Aren't there still some pure ones in Pakistan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbipjwrAVTo

>>2206104
Btw in this video you can actually see it bite a bull.

>>2206098
How about I name a dog breed whose structure alone doesn't cause health problems? Genetic health problems can be screened and even bred out of a breed. But the structure of the skull would actually have to change for that breed to not have teeth problems. Don't get me wrong, they have other issues too; eye problems including entropy, deafness, heart disease, skin problems and allergies... But those can be screened. Don't breed a dog that is deaf, stop breeding dogs if one has a heart problem. The skull, and therefore malformed teeth and spacing problems that comes with it, are part of the breed standard.

>>2206104
http://dogs.bsl-sbt.com/dogs/hinksbullterrier.php
It says on the first page, to create the Hink's Bull Terrier they had to bring in other dogs. APBT, Bull dogs, White English Terrier, and Dalmation.

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>>2206113
Well, even if so, I think that's a good thing.

As for Pakistani Bull Terriers, the article you linked clearly implies they were left intact since the 19th century.

>>2206117
http://dogs.bsl-sbt.com/dogs/gullterr.php?s=&l=
Hrm, turns out these Gull Terriers were also mixed with other breeds. So you were right.

>>2205363
"They're supposed to look like this. They're supposed to have joint problems and hop around like a frog."

>>2206119
An Austrian anon who owns a GS said they have lots of healthy German Shepherds with healthy back there. I don't know to what extent it is true though, but I do hope so.

>>2206117
>>2206118
From my understanding, Gull terrier is actually a different breed, although they are very similar. It's like a bluetick coonhound vs a redbone coonhound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQXTTar58Wc

>>2206122
It's so fucking UGLY I can't imagine the people who have been considering it beautiful all along. I just can't believe my eyes...

There should be a movement to outlaw the AKC and back yard breeders. Dogs should be bred based on mental and physiological traits, not appearance.

My Chessie has a wavy and oily coat. That's the appearance standard recognized by the AKC, however it's not one selected because of looks, but because it needs it to do cold water retrieves.

We need to bring back the clubs that gave us the Chesapeake Bay Retriever, the Border Collie, and the German Shepard. Clubs that cared only for the physical health, and mental suitability of the breeds.

>>2206122
I bet the Jews did this.

>>2206092

Crossing is good. Many breeds are unfixable on their own and need some crossing. I would love for people to fix the Pug already.

>>2205375

That's what I said but it's not true. Look at artwork from 200 to 400 years ago, back when bull fighting was big. Their muzzles are a lot less stout.

Pedigree Dogs Exposed has a good blog too if you're interested.

>>2205363

Only show line GS's have the curved posture.

>>2206130
>We need to bring back the clubs that gave us the Chesapeake Bay Retriever, the Border Collie, and the German Shepard. Clubs that cared only for the physical health, and mental suitability of the breeds.
all "pure" breeds have problems with genetic diseases due to high levels of incest, even the working breeds.

the whole idea of "dog breeds" needs to be exposed as a flawed attempt at recreating the "racial purity" doctrines that Hitler erroneously concluded from Darwin's theory.
it is not scientifically sound and leads to genetic impoverishment of the entire dog population

>>2206130
Woah boy you yanks really fuck up dogs

>>2206130
It's not the akc that determines breed standards, it is breed clubs that do this.

>>2206195
That's what I mean. If a dog looked mostly like a German Shepard, and passed Shutzhund, it was a German Shepard. I don't think pedigree mattered all that much, other than that both parents were also Shutzhund certified.

Chessies were mixed with pretty much every breed of hunting dog. All that really mattered was the result being able to retrieve a hundred plus birds a day from icy water.

I know that's not the way it's done now, and most people don't need a working dog, and select based on looks alone. I don't know how such a system would work today.

My wife wants an English Bulldog. I told her no way.

We saw one at the vets the other day, she was ohhing, and ahhing it until we left. "What's wrong with that dog? Bad respiratory infection"she asked. Then I explained to her for the tenth time that they can barely breathe because of bad breeding. She said it's sad they got like that just because of the way they look. Ten minutes down the road, she says "I still want one someday.'

Maybe I can talk her into an American Bulldog.

>>2205363
I know bad breeders say this all the time, but sometimes it really is the way the dog is 'stacked' that makes the back look like shit. To know for sure if a dog has a roached back, you need to see it in motion. The whole stacking thing is ridiculous though; they put more points in that than the range of movement, so people deliberately breed frog dogs so they can get a better looking stack.

>>2206130
I don't think getting rid of the AKC is really plausible. Unfortunately, the AKC is probably the best well known club running. Westminster KC is even worse with their standards and rules and regulations as far as animal well being goes. The UKC prematurely recognizes breeds before they are really breeds (like every single poodle mutt) and gives titles out for mutts, which further helps designer dog breeders. And the CKC is largely not taken seriously because you aren't required to keep track of the dog's lineage. Same with the NKC, you don't need proof of lineage for papers. Why else would you bother to get papers if not for Proof of lineage?

The AKC needs to push it's breed clubs (who actually make the standards) to change the standard to something more healthy. They've done small changes in the past; I remember they made some rule or change in rule so now Basset hounds with too much 'furnishings' (wrinkles and loose skin) are now faulted, and started encouraging a healthier Dalmatian strain. They just need more support for the dog's.

The AKC is definitely falling out of style though. With shelter dogs and designer dogs and people purposely buying dogs with papers or not caring because of what they heard about the AKC does put a huge strain on them financially. Having AKC papers doesn't mean what it used to mean, dogs can still be charged for the thousands without it and shitty breeders no longer need it to show their dog is purebred or worth it. AKC may not want to push breed clubs if it may mean more breeders leaving.

>>2206373

My family is the same way with Pugs. I explain to them that they have so many health problems but they want a cute, squash faced dog anyway.

>>2206373
Rescues do get them in. Just don't expect a healthy dog. My local shelter gets them in time to time, and they aren't picked up immediately Because of all the health problems. One poor guy needed a dental, had ball cancer (taken care of after they chopped his balls off), his face was in a position where he had to smack his whole head on the ground so his mouth could reach food, had bad allergies to grass of all things, and chronic dry eyes that we had to medicate at least 4times a day every day for the rest of his life.

Don't expect much better from one you get at a breeder though. They are goofy, happy little creatures.

>>2206388
If anything, rescues get them in for the same reason they get in dogs like pugs. Because the medical bills associated with the trash breeding of the dogs ended up piling on way too high and they just threw the dog away.

Sad. People are so gay.