/bb/ - beetle breeding general

>>2202848
Saw your last thread, very informative. I myself saw these videos by Ambuehl and also wanted to get into the hobby, but the short lifespan as a fully developed bug for most species was kind of a drawback for me. Is there something bug-like out their that lives beyon 1.5 years as a bug? I've heard good things about Hemiptera/Heteroptera as an order but haven't found much in terms of care.

To start things up:

The attached picture is of Hirofumi Kawano and the beetle sitting on his hand is a "hercules beetle" ( Latin/scientific name: Dynastes hercules hercules ) from the world wide known Hiroka Strain.
Mr. Kawano bred the biggest ever recorded Dynastes hercules hercules in the world in the year 2014. The beetle was exactly 171mm long and was the biggest "Hercules beetle" ever to be bred back in 2014.

But how did he accomplished that ?
Well, it required a lot of time, discipline and willpower.
Mr. Kawano bred Dynastes hercules hercules selectively over ten years, he always picked the biggest beetles for the next generation. So he accomplished his own personal strain of giant "hercules beetle", today widely known as the Hiroka Strain.
He also perfected the food ( substrate ) for the larvae. He makes his own substrate with a big mixer, but the exact recipe as well as the ingredients are, of course, a big secret, since Mr. Kawano still wants to be the world best breeder of Dynastes hercules hercules.
And if course he makes money with it, big time.

>>2202848
Have you ever experimented with live supplements for extra protein? When I had some Goliathus as a kid I gave them waxworm larvae/pupae and mealworm pupae, after it was suggested that they had specialised forearms for grabbing things. Seemed to work pretty well, but I was wondering if Dynastinae etc. would make use of livefood too?

>>2202858
I have this question as well. There is so much conflicting information out there.
Just how important is added protein anyway if you have good substrate?

Oh and do you sell your beetles OP? Are you gonna be in Hamm in 2 weeks?

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>>2202853

I personally never have experimented or better say tried to rear/breed Hemiptera or Heteroptera. I couldn't find any information on them either, I don't even know if there is any report on them or if they where ever bred by someone, but I will have a look.

There is actually a beetle and it's not even a small one, that can live more than a year!
It's the stag beetle Dorcus titanus ( attached picture shows a male ). I bred them only one time, back then I got a wild captured pair and the female lived for a year and the male nearly two years, but since they where wild captured I can't tell how long they actually lived.
Some breeders told me about individuals that lived up to four years! But I don't know if it's true, since I don't got much experience with this species.

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>>2202858

That's true, the genus Goliathus benefits from protein, actually it depends on it very heavily. That's why there are so aggressive and cannibalistic, they need protein... a lot of it.
I don't think that it makes a difference if it's live protein ( like mealworms or even other larvae ) or not. The question would be: what can they better digest ? What has a bigger amount of protein ?
Since mealworms contain a lot of indigestible chitin ( it's also a protein, but in such a form that the larvae can't use it ) and not that much actually useable protein, it's not a ideal source for protein.
If you want to use a living protein source it makes only sense to use it for the Genus Goliathus, because they are so active, search for it and can hunt it down.

Beetle larvae from the family of the Giant-/Rhinobeetles ( Dynastinae ) are not as active, as for example larvae from the Genus Goliathus. They are more sluggish and usually sit in little caves, in the substrate, where they feed on the surrounding substrate.
They don't search for protein, so a living protein source is pointless since it could avoid the larva.

Every Dynastinae larva eats protein and benefits from it, but you have to present it in another form since the larvae act so differently.
You have to bring the protein to the larva, it won't go in search of it ( normally ).

The best protein source are dried gammarus ( they contain nearly 50% raw protein ).
And I personally use them like that:
First I fill in 2-3cm of substrate, on top of that I roughly sprinkle a hand full of dried gammarus ( the amount depends on the species and weight of the larva ) and fill the rest again with substrate. That's it. Very simple.
And you barely can do something wrong, because dried gammarus don't molt that easy and don't attract mites ( as long as you don't overdo it! ).

>>2202861

It depends on the species.
For example I personally think that protein is nearly pointless for the genus Megasoma, they won't grow much bigger with it. And as adults they just become a little more bulky than the adults that weren't fed with protein.

As long as your substrate doesn't protein itself, it is absolutely right to give extra protein in another form.
Some breeders produce there Flake Soil with soy protein, so they don't need to feed extra protein, but that can get very expensive if you need a lot of substrate.
Other breeders use only the standard recipe for Flake Soil, so they can control the amount of protein they use. So they can only feed the males with extra protein for example.

I don't will be at hamm this year.

>>2202865
Cool, thx for the advice. Imma read up on the dorcus.

>>2202871
Chitin is a carbohydrate

>>2202887

Chitin is a compound of carbohydrates and proteins, yes.

>>2202875

If you would like I could write something about the Genus Dorcus ( or more specifically: Dorcus titanus ).
The special thing about this long living species of the Genus Dorcus is, that only the males get that old. Over two years sometimes.

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Why do Oryctini get so little attention?

From the few Dynastinae I've kept so far, I liked Strategus and Cyphonistes the most. Maybe it's their stubby appearance.
I wish I had known more about their breeding requirements though...

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>>2202906

That's a good question.
I think it's because that breeders, especially beginners, want to breed the biggest and the most amazing looking beetles and ignore the rather small ones.

The Genus Strategus is easy to breed. Their lifecyle don't takes to long and they are not too picky about the substrate quality. But nonetheless they grow best in Flake Soil.
I only bred Strategus aloeus from this genus and would do it again.

>>2202898
Sure, feel free to do so. I'm german aswell, so you can use metric values.

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>>2202848
what's your favorite beetle? and where is the best place to get larvae internationally.

as a side note, you'd probably appreciate those jojo's bettle chapters.

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>>2202998

My favorite beetle is most definitely Dynastes hercules hercules ( attached picture shows a major male ).


Now to answer your question where to buy:

Well, it depends on where you live. Even if you see it from a international point of view.
"Kingdom of Beetle Taiwan" ( here is there website, but watch out it looks... kind of special: http://screw-wholesale.myweb.hinet.net ) is a good place to get larvae and adult beetles, the only downside is the price. Since if you buy something it has to come all the the way from Taiwan to your location, so shipping will cost some money.
There beetles and larvae themselves are not cheap, since they are very professional breeders.

Otherwise I would recommend you to look for beetle forums like the German beetle forum called: "Internationales Käferforum" ( this forum mostly consists of German breeders, but there are also some from Belgium, France, Netherlands and even from Japan ). But I would only recommend this German forum if you want to buy/sell, since the information on there is old and some things they tell you and you can read aren't true.
But there are also many other websites and forums where breeders can exchange and buy animals. You just have to look for them.

To ask you a question:

What or who is jojo? Sounds interesting, could you please explain further?

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>>2203004
so in your experience, what would be the most rewarding larvae for a beginner to keep. preferable something that doesn't stay in the larvae stage as long as a hercules.

to answer your question it's jojo's bizarre adventure, not much to do with beetles. but I'm part 8 there is a character that has the beetle hobby, and they spend a few chapter on high intensity beetle combat.

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>>2203004
>>2203009
pic related

>>2203009

The best beetle for beginners would be the classic Japanese Rhinobeetles ( Latin/scientific name: Trypoxylus dichotomus - but some people still call them by there old Latin/scientific name: Allomyrina dichotomus ).
This beetle is very easy to breed, it's also pretty big, forgives you little rearing mistakes, is not picky about the substrate/food, is cheap to purchase and the life cycle is under a year long ( most adults take 8-10 months to develop from egg to adult beetle ).

Another choice could be Xylotrupes sumatrensis sumatrensis. It has absolutely the same breeding/rearing requirements.
The only difference is the looks.

( The attached picture shows a nice male of Trypoxylus dichotomus )

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>>2203031

( the picture )

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>>2203032
>>2203031

he is handsome to be pretty honest. thanks for the info, I guess it's time to go shopping for beetle supplies. would a personal compost bin with a good bit of dirt be a good place for the grubs to live?

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>>2203031
>tfw been out of the hobby so long that Allomyrina somehow changed names
The fuck, Trypoxylus just sounds tryhard

How do you find out that the beetles successfully laid eggs? Do you just wait some time and start digging for larvae that have hopefully grown a bit?

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>>2203037

No, the nutritional value of compost is only suitable for flowerbeetles ( Cetoniiae ). If you still use it, your adult beetles will be very small, or they don't even get that far and shrink as larva and die.

But nonetheless you can use it to mix it with leaf mulch and ( most importantly ) white rotten wood. They need a lot of that! Especially if they get bigger, they will eat big amounts of white rotten wood!
White rotten wood is easy to find in every forest, it's white, soft to very soft so you can crumble it up by your bare hands. Just make sure that it's not from a evergreen tree ( like confir ), best would be beech or oak.

( attached picture shows ( white rotten wood ) what you should be looking for )

>>2203043

It's actually was ( or even still is? ) for debate. But both names are currently still used by breeders. It's just two names for one and the same species.
Don't know which one is now scientifically correct. You maybe should ask a entomologist if you want to know at exactly.


>>2203052

Every breeder does it differently.
Since eggs, and especially freshly hatched larvae, are very sensitive and a change in substrate can mean death, it's best to not disturb the substrate and wait at least two months before checking for offspring.

However if you aren't sure if the female has laid eggs or you are worried if you used the right substrate, you can try to carefully check the substrate.
If you see eggs or very young/small larvae, just leave it.

But also the process of checking for eggs/larvae differentiate between species.

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Just curious - since Pachnoda Marginata are ridiculously easy to breed in large quantities, are there any reports about specimens bigger than 25mm (measured from abdomen to thorax)?

>>2203120

Yes, there actually is. But I am unsure what the absolute maximum size of this species is.

I think the biggest I have seen reported was barely 28mm big.
The breeder fed dried gammarus to the larvae. The adults became barley longer than normal Pachnoda marginata, but they also got a bit wider.

>>2203130

That's quite interesting. Seeing some of my Eudicella smithi (I think the name changed to E. euthalia bertherandi but I'm not sure) and Cheirolasia burkei turn out smaller than the average Pachnoda was quite embarassing. I had 2 C. burkei which barely measured 18mm instead of the usual 30-35.

>>2203066
Trypoxylus dichotomus is the correct name. For now.
http://www.eol.org/pages/1027285/overview

This shit changes all the time. I have relearn dozens of genus names every 6 months or so.

>>2203066
will a stag beetle larvae and a rhinocerous larvae eat each other if they share an enclosure?

Do most beetle hobbyists mount their beetles once they die? Any pictures?

>>2202848
I'm kind of planning on owning a giraffe stag but I don't know where to buy and how to keep it.
But I do have experience with Rhinoceros Beetles and Scarabs when I was a kid

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>>2203350

Most definitely.
Stag beetle larvae are much more aggressive and are more likely to kill and eat other conspecifics/larvae.
That's also why most stag beetle larvae are kept singly in their own box/container, since they could harm each other.
But it's not always the case, as long as their is enough space and food they could go along with each other, but I would never recommend to do so.


>>2203384

I would say every beetle breeder does that to a certain extent, but if you have many beetle, many different species it will take a lot of room, so some breeders sell their dried specimens to collectors or to a museum.

( Attached picture shows a mounted Megasoma mars ( left ) and a Megasoma elephas ( right ) )

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>>2203559

As I always recommend: start with larvae, if you want to breed them buy at least six larvae.

Prosopocoilus giraffa keisukei is practically not hard to breed, as always, if you have the right material.
The larvae of this species grow best in Flake Soil + white rotten wood pieces, but if you can't get your hands on Flake Soil you can also use white rotten wood pieces + white rotten flakes ( crumbled up white rotten wood ).
Be sure that when you feed white rotten wood that a larva always gets the same wood. If you feed a larva first white rotten beech wood and then white rotten oak wood the larva will lose weight, because it has to adapt it's digest system to the new substrate.

( Attached picture shows a male of Prosopocoilus giraffa keisukei )

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It got quite... Here is something to maybe revived this thread:

A very rare Dynastinae species: Agaocephala margaridae.

At the moment a regular pair costs around 900,00€ and you would have to import it from Japan.

What do you think of beetle jelly? Do you feed it your adults or just regular fruits?

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>>2203756

I personally only use beetle jelly.
The only time you should feed fruits is if you don't have beetle jelly's. Why's that ?
Because fruits rot and molt easily and attract fruit fly's, but beetle jelly's can be left open for two weeks and it's still good and a beetle can still feed on it and it got extra protein in it. That's most important for females to lay eggs.

Whenever it's possible use beetle jelly instead of fruits.

>>2203762

Is it normal that beetles pick fruit over jelly when given the choice?

>>2203798

Yes ( usually ), because fruits smell much more intense than beetle jelly's.
Beetle jelly's smell to, but not as intense as real fruits ( to speak out of the beetles view/perspective ).

>>2203762
Plus beetle jellies are insanely cute, I used to sit small Cetoniinae on top and watch them wobble whilst filling their faces

Are 15cm of substrate enough for Eudicella Hornimanni to lay eggs?

>>2203762
The guy you recd a dorcus titanus to. So I did a bit of research, mind you that this is the first bug I'm caring for.

I saw offers online for 8€ per larvae. All I need is kinshi/protein flake soil, one big tub with a lid, 30l at least for the larvae and later smaller containers when I seperate the larvae, if I have multiple ones.

Set up tub with soil, compress it, put larvae in there, make sure it stays between 20-25°C. If I have multiple larvae, seperate them after 2-3 months to single containers and beetles should be complete and done after about 10-15 months total, if humidity is somewhat stable and it neither get's too humid nor too dry. The larvae feed just off of the kinshi/flakesoil? So no extra feeding needed?

When the beetles are done I feed beetle jelly and enjoy them and let them mate/ seperate males?

Would 5 larvae be a good starting size if I would wish to start this up?

Is there a special subspecies of dorcus titanus you would recommend for middle european climates and beginners in general?

Is there a good german onlineshop where I can get a good price on beetles and supplies like soil?

Thanks in advance.

>>2204581
Not him but www.coleoptera-xxl.de is alright if a bit expensive.

With the next Terraristika so close by I'd recommend just going to Hamm next saturday though. Even if that's a bit far awway for you, it's worth it.

>>2204581

Dorcus titanus titanus is the nominotypical taxon I meant.

So you should look for Dorcus titanus titanus, because it's very common among European beetle breeders.

All the information you gathered so far is correct.
The only thing I don't really understand is why you should put all larvae in one container, just to separate them again (?). That's absolutely pointless and dangerous.
You (normally) separate them right away, as long as their are young.

Extra feeding (like the use of dried gammarus) is never needed, of course you could do it if you want to breed/raise very big beetles, but since you're a beginner you wouldn't recommend that.

There are two internet shops who sell standard quality Flake Soil:

1. www.garnelenprofi.de (
also sells larvae and beetle but to absolutely insane prices)

2. www.flake-soil.de (only sells breeding materials/substrate)

>>2204592
>>2204639
Thx for the info. Imma research some more and put up a list for myself on what I need so I'm ready to go when I'm buying larvae the next few weeks or months.

That thing with the larvae all in one tub was in one of the caresheets I read, as to why the guy who recommends this does this, I can't say, but it in hindsight it seems kinda pointless when the larvae need to be seperated later anyways.

>>2204745

I totally forgot to answer your last question (if five larvae are enough to start up breeding this species):

As I wrote earlier: you should always buy at least six larvae to start breeding a species. You always have to expect that 10% of animals die during larva or pupa stage, so it's always recommended to buy more.
Even if this species is easy to breed/keep/rear I would recommend you (if you have the money and space) to buy eight larvae, that should be enough to stay on the safe side.

But remember, to buy more is always a good idea, since you never know what happens.

>>2204639
thepetfactory.de also sells a lot of stuff

Everytime i see videos of beetles kept they move very slowly. I guess most people keep them cold so they live longer and are less active? I tried to keep a Cotonis mutabilis once, a beetle that spends most of its day flying. it would ram into the top and plummet onto the bottom where it would usually land on its back and be unable to flip over so i just let it go.

>>2204771

True, but to be honest with you they sell crap.

They also sell Black Soil and in the description it says "fermented plants". Which is strange, because Flake and Black Soil consist of 100% wood. I ordered, right as I saw it I knew why the description said "plants": this Black Soil was simply compost.
They sell low quality compost as Black Soil... Also the animals they sell are poor quality and the prices are same as the other beetle shops: insane.

You should always buy from private persons.

>>2204778

That really depends on the family the beetle belongs to.

Flowerbeetles (Cetoniiae) are much more active than Giant- or Stagbeetles.
If you would see two males fight you won't believe how active they actually can get.

Do all flower beetles need a light source or is it enough if the box/terrarium is located close to a window?

>>2206494

If close to a window means that a day/night cycle, that reaches the box/terrarium, exists then yes.

Flower beetles are most active at day, so a light source of some sort is needed.

Is black soil exclusively used as larvae substrate or can it be used as egg-laying substrate too?

>>2207405

Black Soil is (commonly) used for difficult to rear/breed species like Dynastes granti.

But it's also widely recommended to use Black Soil at the Bottom (2-4cm) of a container for egg laying.