Ask a Herpetologist Anything

>>2198288
What's the longest timeframe I should keep rattlers in my freezer before skinning to avoid hide degradation?

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>>2198294
I concern myself with the living.

>>2198295
Darwin and Audubon would be disappointed in you.

>>2198294
Tsk tsk.

>>2198288
You know anything about species new to science? Any discovered this year or last worth mentioning?

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>>2198298
Ok, let me correct myself, because I do deal with dead lab specimens in formalin/formaldehyde/alcohol.

I don't support the killing of rattlesnakes for any reason (they have enough troubles), and I'm not going to help you skin them. Sorry.

Look up a taxidermist, or maybe consult one before you kill snakes and shove them in your freezer.

>>2198304
Oh man!! I could go on and on about the amazing lizards we've discovered. Not a whole lot of snakes ,but we have frogs and lizards galore. Here are a few if you want to look them up:

Lizards
Anolis landestoyi
Varanus semotus
Liolaemus spp. (I believe unnamed so far, but it was discovered in one of Bolivia's national parks)

Frogs:
Oreobates spp. (unnamed, again, Bolivia)
Pristimantis spp.
Dendropsophus mapinguari

Those are just what I can remember, but they're very beautiful.

>>2198315
Very cool; thank you the answer. Incredible that new species of monitor are still being discovered.

Do you ever do work in the field? How close are you to these discoveries?

>>2198310
I already knew the answer.
I was just curious if you were legitimately a herpetologist or just some neckbeard in a basement breeding pythons.
The fact that you so quickly pushed my question aside answered that.

Darwin and Audubon both personally killed tens of thousands of animals for study and mounting.
If you're not comfortable with that aspect, then you're not studying them- you're just taking some notes.

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>>2198316
Ergh sadly so, so far! They're found by people with a lot more funding and far closer to the source than I!
I did work in the field, at the moment I'm a recently graduated student looking for work. I had some fun with Crotalus oreganus doing population surveys and radio tracking (partially my reason for the response to Mr. Rattlesnek killer up there). I had a lot of fun with them.

>>2198317
Not him, but you're just being edgy.

Ever heard of the Macdonald triad? Killing animals as an amateur "scientist" isn't intellectually rigorous or useful; it's macabre, and you can't call people out for being uncomfortable with it, even if you're callous enough for it to be amusing.

Darwin, by the way, had a lifelong habit of killing things, and was certainly no saint. Don't invoke him as a model of moral fortitude.

>>2198322
I've had papers published on Colubridae, I'm not considered amateur by the community.

Virtually EVERY new species or subspecies is literally dissected in the field upon discovery. That's bio 101.

>>2198319
If I find any of the implants I'll mail them back to the university, along with a nice wallet.

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>>2198317
My issue is not with study. My issue is with people killing them for the purpose of skins. That's why I was so salty toward you. Randos killing rattlesnakes with shovels then wanting advice on how to skin them is not the reason I'm here.

And yeah, I know people killed animals for study. Here's a small sampling of the specimens near my office. However, most of them are from the 1940s, 50's, and 60's. Here are some of them. Say hi, kids. They've been dead 50 years, and we're still studying them.

>>2198327
Sounds like op works in ecology/conservation/field work type of stuff more than morphology, I'm in the marine mammal field but even I know that there are different types of sciences all dealing with the same animal, yes there are people who dissect dead whales but there are also people who do tracking/population projects and I'm sure it's the same for herps. Not sure what your problem is with OP not personally killing snakes lmao

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>>2198317
Oh hey look, here's my tissue station. I miss thee, tissue station. I miss thee so much.

>>2198327
Alright kids, no need to get salty.

I have no idea why you have such an issue with me mate. You're the one killing and skinning rattlesnakes....which eh...you might recognize as not collecting specimens for a scientific purpose. I don't recommend anyone randomly kill and dissect snakes on their own.

Most snakes we've discovered have specimens readily available at your local university, particularly if its a local species. Ask, and they'd be more than happy to let you see them and poke around a bit! Long as you're used to the stench of formalin/formaldehyde (which is an ugly, ugly smell folks).

My favorite newish discovery were the two species of venomous frogs found.

So do you think that its possible for a true gigantic boa to exist in the amazon. I know Percy Fawcett ended up being a bit of a loon, but he claimed to have shot a rather large anaconda. The indigenous people also talk of seeing a black anaconda, that is very large.

While we're on the weird tangent, the mesoamerican legends of the "feathered serpent" I know a few members of atheris have elongated keeled scales(hairy bush viper especially), but there is nothing like that in mesoamerica to my knowledge, do you know of any species that may have spawned the legend?
I am aware the root of Quetzalcoatl is the same as the resplendent quetzal, but there are other legends about the quetzal that are distinct from the feathered serpent mythos.

>>2198347
You're an idiot child.

>>2198391
Actually, I think they're some very interesting questions and I'm delighted to answer them. There are no stupid questions, just judgemental people.

>>2198347
I think I heard about that! I haven't done much looking into it though. I really don't think there are "gigantic" pythons in the Amazon. It takes powerfeeding (feeding a snake excessively and unhealthily leading to fatty liver syndrome, obesity, and other issues) to get an anaconda even in the neighborhood of 20 feet. I think the rumors are probably just from explorers who hadn't seen a 10 foot snake before let alone a 14-15 foot snake.

From there, I think it took a "My fish was THIS BIG I SWEAR IT" flavor. Not to mention that things like shed skins are bad evidence of "giant" snakes because shed skins stretch a huge amount.

A yes, Quetzalcoatl! The infamous and beautiful feathered serpent who, if I remember, was a bit of a dick to his people. I can't think of any south american snakes that might have spawned this legend, but I think an archaeologist or sociologist might be better able to answer this question for you!

I do know one story, and it's about the Quetzal that isn't part of the feathered serpent mythos. It's about a young prince named Quetzal (beautiful) born to a tribe named the Quiche. The wise sage gave him a necklace of a feather and said he would live forever.

This confused the tribe, who wondered how someone could bestow immortality like that. Quetzal had a brother who was jealous of his immortality, and they fought long and hard. Quetzal was injured, and his brother believed that was the end of him, when Quetzal rose from his body as a brilliant bird.

That's supposed to be the lovely quetzal bird we see today, which is still beloved by the Guatemalan people as a sign they will never be truly defeated.

>>2198288
what kind of research do you do? I'm an evolutionary biologist interested in arachinids/insects.

>>2198288
I have many questions, so I'm sorry in advance.
1. Have any snake or gecko species been reclassified recently? Thoughts?
2. Any good book you recommend on herpethology or reptiles in general?
3. What previous knowledge do you think one should have before studying things related to reptiles?

>>2198465
>judgemental people.

You mean like someone who supports the deplorable conditions cattle and chickens are raised in so they can have leather boots for field work and a bigmac, but look down on someone for harvesting wild animals for the exact same thing?

Hypocrite.

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>>2198468
I did ecology research on the Oregon Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus. Primarily, their place in the food chain in the Eastern WA area and their relationship to an endangered rabbit, Brachylagus idahoensis. Mainly, I was a research grunt. I tagged, weighed, photographed, and logged individuals for a local university.

What sort of research do you do? I love me some arachnids, but my favourite pet has to be my Damon diadema. She's a shy little thing, and she looks scary, but she's very sweet and likes to sit on my shoulder. Great animal.

>>2198647

1. Oh lord have mercy, taxonomy is literally shifting and changing like the wind. I usually find the taxonomic changes when I'm referencing or studying the animal concerned. "Oh, Bufo boreas is now Anaxyrus boreas boreas". Some suspected new species or species that are contested (come on, sometimes the difference between species is so tiny people have fights about it for years) get solved, others pop up. It's hard to keep up with.

Here's a list I hit up (it's not conclusive and doesn't have everything, but it gives me a heads up) from a European/Mediterranean Herpetological society: http://vipersgarden.at/ARdb/systematics.php

2. Herpetology: An Introductory Biology of Amphibians and Reptiles by Laurie J. Vitt
Herpetology by J. Harvey Pough
Herpetology by Martha Crump.

As you can tell, people who study herps are amazing at picking book titles.

3. If you can get a foothold in any field of biology, that's a good place to start. Herpetology is rarely offered as a major in itself nowadays, and oftentimes you have to specialize from a Zoology degree as I did. Get a solid knowledge of ecological terms and systems, anatomy, and physiology. If you throw some biochemistry in there you'll be ahead of the game. Also, if you want to study herps, you need to study their prey items/predators, which means a lot of bullshit like the picture attached (telling a prey item apart from its 50~ taxonomical brothers in the area).

>>2198288
I'm torn between entomology and herptology. Do you know of any places in Ohio with great herptology programs? I live there and I'd love to be able to visit a professor and see what is actually going on.

>>2198656
Eating meat when I have to gas thousands of rodents to feed snakes per month is a bit par for the course don't you think? I've also eaten rodent. Because I got curious.

I respect life as much as possible, mate, but I also can't deny that humans are omnivores. Factory farms suck, but are they a part of having a bloated human population that loves its fried meat sticks? Yep.

Oh, and I don't support leather products. I actually support something in the herp world called Eden Bio-Skins, which creates snake leather from the shed skins of the animal as opposed to the animal itself. They're a great alternative to actually butchering a snake. Check em out!

>>2198711
Oh Ohio. The only place I can think of where I want to strangle people who have legal rights to keep an Indian cobra in an apartment and a tiger on a farm if they so choose.

Sadly not a lot of Universities offer specific herpetology programs, but a great place to start is looking at their professors in the Zoology, Ecology, and Evolutionary Biology department. Oftentimes they list their "current research projects" on their websites.

By the by, timber rattlesnakes are disappearing at an alarming rate in Ohio so...-cough- researchproject -cough-

At OSU, it looks like Dr. William Peterman (http://senr.osu.edu/our-people/william-peterman) and Dr. Thomas Hetherington (https://eeob.osu.edu/people/hetherington.1) are your peeps! Email them!

>>2198721
Las Vegas.
You can have a tiger or babboon or cobra or god knows what.
Every once in awhile you'll get something like a news report of a white tiger that escaped and is walking down the road.
Some lady had a pair of (orangutans?) That kept escaping. Police had to shoot one- lady told them to because it wasn't tame.

Never makes national news, always stays local.
Saw a nice e 5+ foot albino diamondback rattler n the pet store I go to, $499.

Hell, guy in the shop next to me at work has a sidewinder in his office that he found out in the dunes.

I've been looking at schools for the biology program, going for an education minor to teach highschool.
Currently looking at both University of Pittsburgh and Penn State University. Any dealings with either of them, or opinions?

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>>2198743
Well my faith in humanity just took a hard hit to the kidneys.

>>2198768
Sadly I don't have opinions on either. Wish I could be more help! Talk to some of the grad students if possible, and start looking at some of the individual professors' published articles in the last 5-6 years. If you can, ferret out a research grunt position as quickly as possible, and hang onto it.

>>2198721
Thanks, anon! Also, if it makes you feel any better, a couple years back they actually did a bunch of new wildlife laws. I can't recall them all, but for herps, you can't own a venomous herp or a snake over 15ft without a permit.

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>>2198801
I really am not a fan of private collectors having venomous snakes. Most of them don't keep them in secure enough enclosures, or have a safe room dedicated to them, or a plan in place in case one escapes. Viperkeeper on youtube is an exception, but he was taught by some of the best people in the industry, and is pretty responsible. I don't agree with his cohabitation, but that's about where Viperkeeper and I disagree.

As for large snakes, Im torn. On one hand, I've rescued enough large snakes to support having a permit before buying one. On the other hand, it's incredibly hard to GET a permit as a responsible keeper, which just forces the practice underground.

Do you think of the snake as an end in itself (as I would presume of Bentham), or, a la Descartes or Kant, merely a means to an end?

>>2198319
>recently graduated and looking for work
so, you aren't a herpetologist then

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>>2198849
Yeah, I recognize there are a lot of older people more experienced than I am. I'm no Attenborough. Never said I knew everything (hey, I admit as such several times in this thread). But hey, I guess the past ~10 years of my life don't count as studying herps either.

I guess I better tell my mate she can't say she's a veterinarian because she's still in school specializing. Despite you know, being fully qualified to actually treat cats and do surgery.

But hey, whatever totes your goats. I'm just here to answer questions to the best of my ability. If I don't know something, I'll admit it.

>>2198821
Not a philosophy major mate. I faintly remember Kant from an ethics class I was required to take in undergrad. I think sneks are sneks. Just livin along, doin snek things. Eatin mice, rats, fish, frogs, and arthropods. Typical snek shit.

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>>2198288
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foc4dn90n3E

Was watching the video and saw the beautiful poor fella roll out from the bin. Wondering what the species is as I can't find any indexes of sea snakes online to find it.

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>>2198288
I have a question, Snakebitch.

I own an albino king (pic related) and while I was away, my well meaning parenta got her a mouse that was a little big for her. The little shit lived in her enclosure for a day or so, and bullied her the entire time. Now she won't go near white mice, no matter the size. I also don't have an option in fur color, as there is only one store in the area that sells feeder mice

How do I get her to eat?

>>2200011
Buy a baby hamster.
Catch a garter snake.
Steal baby bird from sparrow nest.

Or just wait a couple weeks.
You really should feed them dead mice though, they can get bitten by live critters.

>>2200019
I wish she would eat dead. She refuses to touch anything that she didn't kill

and thanks for the advice, small animals are hard to come by though. I'm in Alaska

>>2198888
>I guess I better tell my mate she can't say she's a veterinarian because she's still in school specializing. Despite you know, being fully qualified to actually treat cats and do surgery.
yeah, probably

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>>2199942
Ergh, this breaks my heart. Poor kids. Sea snakes have no belly scutes, since they spend 100% of their time in the sea, so that explains the flopping and bad movement.

There are 54 species of sea snake, but I believe this is a Stokes' Sea Snake, also known as a Turtle-headed Sea Snake (Astrotia stokesii). Not 100% sure, but that's what they look like off the top of my head.

>>2200011
Ok first of all? DO NOT BUY A BABY HAMSTER, CATCH A GARTER, OR STEAL A BABY BIRD. That is how you get parasites, and if she can't eat a mouse she's sure as hell not going to get near a hamster (which are sassy as all get out).

Again, this is why we don't feed live and if you feed live, make sure to stun the animal and take it out after an hour. If the snake continues to refuse the next day, congratulations on your new pet mouse (sorry man, this is why I don't feed live).

I repeat, do not feed them stuff from the outdoors.

Here's something you can try. Try her on fat rat pinks/fuzzlets. They smell a little different, and while they're not as big as a mouse they've got a slightly higher fat content. That's probably your best option. If you can find hopper rats in different colors (this might work, because rats come in all colors and blanket patterns are common) that will help as well.

Look around Facebook and Craigslist to see if you can find a local rodent breeder. If you let me know your location, I can track one down for you!

>>2200025
Oh, another thing. Will she take things that have been 'zombie-danced'? I find that moving a dead rat/mouse around in a similar fashion to the way a live mouse/rat would can help stimulate those hunting instincts.

>>2200025
Ya I've had some picky kings unfortunately.
>>2200035
This is what I did with rosys.

Kings will eat a wide variety of critters. Does the pet store sell anoles? Cheap little lizards.

>>2200034
Thanks m8!

>>2200025

With picky snakes that won't eat pre-killed mice, I've fed them baby birds, lizards, and other mostly harmless live animals to buy time as I figured out how to get them back on pre-killed.