Are zoos actually bad? I'm so fucking sick of articles popping

>>2169364
They're both good and bad.

>>2169364
Some animals fare better than others.
The lions in my local zoo are realy stressed out and miserable because of visitors, they pace in a tiny part of their enclosure where a reed curtain covers them from people

>>2169364

In general, yes. The whole idea of locking animals up and cages so humans can stare at them - I mean, you don't need to watch a documentary to know something is sort of fucked up about that.

Zoos do host breeding programs for endangered species, which is sweet, but 99% of the stuff in zoos is not part of any program.

I don't hate zoos and I've been to some that actually had space, was maintained, etc but my local zoo is just complete shit and hasn't changed in more than 20 years other than they tried to be very quiet about getting their elephant removed due to how shit it was for her. Was there last month, visibly sick animals with mites(mange? almost completely hairless), the 'river/pond' which takes up half the goddamn place is pure, bright green from the sheer amount of the ducks they introduced, their birds look like shit, younger goats getting trampled half to death due to the vast amount of overcrowding and overbreeding, animals constantly pacing and attacking each other which did not seem playful at all, etc.

Not that reporting shit would even do shit since this shithole hasn't changed in apparently longer than I've been alive. The amusement park next to it isn't any better with all the duct tape but I don't really give a shit about that.

>>2169364
There was a nice walking zoo in Dundalk, MD.
I got to pet their giraffe. Got tongue destroyed.
Not sure if it's still there.

>>2169588
which zoo is this sounds awfuly familiar

Maybe I was lucky but I grew up near a zoo active in conservation programs and with decently sized approximations of habitats. There's a huge open air rainforest in an exhibit. They've had their share of unfortunate decisions in the past, but on the whole they rank highly in terms of space. I can understand why people dislike them. My mother did. I think captivity is okay for certain animals more than others. I wonder how they feel about, more than how people do. Some animals have ranges that span for hundreds of miles. Personally for stuff like that I think a wildlife reserve is better. We have a pretty good one of those around here too, actually.

>>2169364
>articles popping up in my news feeds that talk about how animals are "clearly distressed and despairing 24/7" inside of zoos.
how much of a vegan pussy do you have to be for facebook to decide you want to read that shit?

The truth is that zoos can never adequately provide for their animals. For example, naturally many of the large predators (wolves, lions, tigers, etc) have gigantic territories and ranges in the wild that stretch hundreds of square miles. But a zoo cannot be that big.

Zoos also cannot feed the animals wild, killable game as it is too dangerous and inhumane for the other animal.

But then again, you must consider, would the animal be 'happier' in the wild? Ticks and parasites and disease and fighting all the time? Would they be happy when their cubs die off as opposed to having a medical staff that makes sure they survive in captivity?

It's impossible, for me anyway, to have any strong opinion on it. Real life is too complicated and fucked up for there to be one answer to anything, much less animals.

>>2169627
York's Wild Kingdom.
I'm not even sure why it's such shit. It's the only zoo around in a very tourist area. I think there was some protests a few years ago and the zoo official said they were there to help endangered animals and what enrichment she mentioned they provided for anything was the primates with just some plastic box they spin once to get a treat. From what I have seen they don't really breed shit other than goats, saw a young mandrill a month ago and patas monkeys(something ive never seen in a zoo). Three patas monkey in an enclosure that is pure branches, the father drew blood on the little one for getting too close and the mother for seemingly trying to intervene. I know primates squabble and fighting is just a thing but the enclosures are small, bare, and they are constantly pacing, shaking their heads and whatnot.

Zoos aren't perfect. Some are better than others. Some animals thrive much better than others even if it's a 'good' zoo but I have seen and heard nothing but shit from this zoo for 15+ years.
Shook hands with some spider monkeys and lemurs though so I guess that was a thing.

They say the zoo is mostly 'hands off' as in most animals are kept away from the public but it's a lie. Otherwise they wouldn't have obviously sick animals on display, plus while its been a few years since I've gotten up to no good - we used to jump the fences and explore and there was no 'hidden enclosures'. Rare to find employees around anywhere but the goat pen(which easily allowed us to shake hands with animals. It's dumb but even if we got hurt - we wouldnt tell) and we did spent a good hour trying to steal a sickly premature goat that just kept getting trampled by all the other goats. Yeah sick premature goats is not uncommon anywhere, but there was over 50+ goats in a small pen(not the petting pen, which only has three or so these days) constantly trampling the smaller ones.

>>2169666

The baby goats is probably the only thing anyone gives a shit about so they have a constant stream of them. Go there and I bet you will witness at least two goats giving birth and at least five still gross as shit from giving birth.
Been there five times in the past couple months, only paid once since its not hard to just walk in without paying.
Other than that there is about one or two fallow deer that will allow you to feed or pet it. They reduced their numbers a lot, at least.

They still own a lot of the property they haven't touched and with what they charge + being the only zoo around, you'd think they would have expanded in the past 30+ years(more according to some reviews I've read from older folk).

The woe is south Maine, I guess. People come to Maine for our beautiful wilderness and wildlife in the wild. It's a shame south Maine is just complete tourist shit.

Yes and no. Things are improving, but a lot of time it's simply not feasible to recreate habitats perfectly. As a result zoo animals suffer from diseases they rarely do in the wild, and their life expectancies are a lot lower.

>>2169364
>>2169374
This. Zoos are a mixed bag. They've helped a tiny number of species avoid extinction, but they've helped cause others and are even now net consumers, rather than producers of animals. That means more animals die in zoos than are born in them.

I feel like zoos wouldn't be so bad if the animals couldn't see or hear the humans looking in on them.

>>2169978
ah yes they would have the company of a soundless void lmao

>>2169664
>But then again, you must consider, would the animal be 'happier' in the wild? Ticks and parasites and disease and fighting all the time? Would they be happy when their cubs die off as opposed to having a medical staff that makes sure they survive in captivity?

I bet they are all happy with being captive and laying in a cage all day. Some zoo's try to imitate their natural habitat wich sometimes is difficult or impossible to do. But hey, at least there are no diseases in zoo's.

>>2169664
>he would rather live in a cage than die in freedom
These people vote

File: 1785026755.jpg (69KB, 321x482px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 321x482px

Don't eat me!

>>2170451
What is freedom when you're still bound to and commanded by your bodily needs.

There is really nothing like seeing an animal live, the noise it makes, the smells, the movement. Zoos are flawed in their basic concept since they can never be big enough, but they are necessary I think. Besides, with proper habitat and mental stimulation most animals can be content in the zoo.

>>2169688
where did you read that life expectancies are lower? I always read animals in capticity live longer. I zoo I live nearby has a lynx that's 23, while in the wild they usually get no older that 16 or so.

>>2170451
At least in zoo they get food for free. In nature they need to hunt, sometimes the prey injuries them to death or they starve to death.

Lol zoo apologists

"hey let's put nature in a can it's gonna be awesome"

>>2172756
What about a compromise? Would a zoo with only fish, perhaps reptiles, 'petting zoo animals', insects and butterflies be fine?

>>2169364
I think zoos are a great idea as long as the animals are very well cared for. I'm in Australia so I don't get to see things like sun bears and elephants in the wild. I also think they play a crucial in keeping endangered species alive.

Depends on the zoo.

Large, well-funded zoos like the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans are T O P T I E R and take incredible care of their animals, and have some of the smartest staff. I remember their black bear exhibit, which was huge, along with the big cats exhibits which were also huge. Some animals there they even let free-roam, like the peacocks and other fowls you don't find in Louisiana. Even the smaller animals got suitable cages- the house mice they kept in the "swamp" part of the zoo had a fairly large 20-gallon cage (For 2 mice and it's litter, that's a nice size, some hiding spots, ect. I could keep going on and on.

TL;DR: bigger zoo with better funds, better animals are kept.

>>2172815
>strayan
>implying dissatisfaction with all the cool shit you can see in the wild in your fuck-off amazing country
Maaaaate. Although to be fair, you should also have been able to see bear-sized koalas, dinosaur-tier Varanus/roos/birds etc. if the early Abos hadn't wiped them out.

>>2173124

Also depends on the animals.

Obvs "lower" animals and animals that don't need big ranges are perfectly suited to zoo's.

The issue only occurs with the large cats/mammals with massive ranges. Particularly the predators as they miss out on a big part of their biology in hunting for food.

>>2170451
did you miss the part where he litteraly said he wasn't sure and that zoos provide both pros and cons to the animals inside?

>>2171911
Depends on the animal. Many big cats live twice as long in captivity. Most cetaceans live half as long in captivity.

>>2172815
I'm not 100% sure about this but would like to discuss the topic; are there particular laws that keep Australian zoos and aquariums mostly environmentally friendly? Almost all animals are part of a breeding program due to being endangered or kept to recover and recuperate in zoos. Aussie laws seem really strict when it comes to ecological preserving.
This might skew the opinion on how well kept zoos are depending on their country.

the bad ones are obviously bad and the good ones are in an elite category.

Most fall in the life of pi territory where you wonder if the animals, who are very bored would rather be dying slowly of infection in the wild or just be lazy outside all day waiting for the next meal at the zoo.

Everyone in this thread needs to read "The Invisible Ark" by Dave and Tracy Barker. /endthread