Pet (Dog/Cat) Food General

>>1969035
my cat gets purina complete from sam's club. no problems there.

I fed my puppy blue puppy when we got him at 8 weeks. both the vet and our trainer STRONGLY advised against it, as they had experienced an outrageous number of gastro issues stemming from the food. Had him on it for 2 weeks, 1/4 of poop was normal. 2/4 was on the "soft", not liquid side. 1/4 was actually red tinged.
Been using Wellness brand since and haven't had an issue. he has more energy now too

How is Blue Buffalo? It's what my parents feed their dog but I've read mixed reviews about it.

feed raw, or orijen, grainfree acana, etc.
not the mainstream shit (royal canine is still shit even if its expensive)

Honest kitchen. Pricy, like all the dehydrated brands, but all my dogs have done extremely well on it. It has probably paid for itself in trips to the vet (for itchy skin, digestion issues) that I've avoided. I also foster dogs and every one of them has loved honest kitchen and thrived on it.

When im picking a dog or cat food, what do I need to be looking for on the label? What ingrediants do I need to avoid? What numbers of important vitamins should I be looking for? Whats the nutritional difference between wert and dry foods?

I dont wanna sit here and ask for a brand or type, I want to know how to read and understand the labels

I feed my dog and cat Purina pro plan. They both really like it

>>1969070
Try to avoid kibbles with grains listed near the top of ingredients, look for high crude protein percentage etc. The thing about cats also, is that need a specific amino acid called taurine that's literally essential for their health.

I worked at a Petsmart for 2.5 years, and I did a lot of research on the different foods we sell. If you really want to look into it yourself, go to dogfoodadvisor.com. They break down common foods by ingredients and give them ratings based on that.

But, imo, I really like the brands made/sold by petsmart themselves. Authority and Simply nourish. SN is a little more expensive than authority, but it's a really great quality food. Authority is a little more expensive than your typical grocery store foods, but it's MUCH better quality than your typical pedigree, purina etc.

Also, anything grain free is going to be a plus. Animals do not need grain in their food, long story short it just makes them poop more.

Good luck :)

Is Butchers a good brand of dog food?

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Raw. It's the food my dog is healthiest on.

>>1969296

What do you feed raw? Do you mix the type of meat? are you worried about parasites or diseases?

>>1969035

Why the fuck does this sound like an ad?

No seriously. You've "noticed" a difference to his daily behaviour and health? Bullshit. If the dog gets fat you're feeding him too much.

I feed my dogs authority. one on the senior formula, one grain free adult food, and the other on large breed grain-free puppy food. it seems like a good balance of price and quality, plus they all love it and are doing great on it

my cat gets simply nourish grain free canned food. her weight is perfect and her teeth are great, and she seems much more energetic than when I was feeding her the grain free purina kibble

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>>1969330
I source from local farms through a distributor, it is all meat intended for human consumption. Dogs are able to handle the bacterial load found in raw meat, but it's helpful to make sure the farm practices clean slaughter techniques.

>>1969337
actually food does affect health and behavior. my dogs coat was dull and he wasn't energetic when he was fed Purina. He is on Acana now and his coat and skin are perfect and he's always lively

My dog (Border Collie) was on Hills Ideal Balance at the pound and when I brought her home I switched her to 4Health Chicken and Rice. It's a tractor supply co brand, its got no corn so I'm pretty happy. Along with the kibble she gets fresh pumpkins, veggies, chicken livers and kidney from the market, and sometimes peanut butter and plain yogurt in a kong toy.

I wish I could afford Orijen lmao.

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Gonna hijack this thread sorta sorry
Pic related
my picky terrier mutt is not eating her food at all.
I give her a half cup of Purina 3 times a day but I switched to Pedigree after she stopped eating to see if that would help.
tried wetting it which helped for 3 days but now she stopped eating it again.
She has refused to eat her dog food at all but will still eat dog treats, garbage, and of course table scraps (we are very strict we never give her any but we caved to see if she would eat at all).
As a despair are measure we put cream cheese in with the dog food to help her eat and of course she ate it.
I don't want to keep putting cream cheese in with this assholes food because that's my food and not dog food. What do? (Also I did Google this and no help. She doesn't have bad teeth the asshole is just being stubborn)

>>1969919
buy her food that isn't so shitty. once my parents bought beneful or whatever that crap is for the dog and he refused to eat it until we got him back on quality food

>>1969919
Look at dogfoodadvisor.com and try a better food to start, otherwise try and get the dogs appetite worked up. Offer the food for ten minutes in the morning, if he doesn't eat, pick it up. Then take him out where he can run/play fetch for a good 40 minutes and try to offer the food again when you get back. Unlike cats, you can deny dogs food for longer than a day or two and they'll be ok. However, before doing that, I would strongly suggest You try excersise and check for other problems like bad teeth that could be causing pain when he chews the hard kibble.

Otherwise don't give in with treats and tidbits, it will only harm him more than do him good.

I feed my dog vegan food and vegan treats only. Dogs and humans do better without animal products.

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>>1969043
Just sayin' m8, Purina products are generally garbage. Purina complete is especially garbage. If you have the dosh to shell out for Wellness for your dog, I hope you'll consider stepping your cat up nutritionally too.

>>1969046
Wilderness is good but otherwise the brand is notorious for causing gastro issues, as the above anon stated. My kittens got sent home with a bag when we adopted them and they had THE most ungodly-smelling catshits I've ever had the misfortune to sniff until we switched them off. A week later, great improvement.

>>1969070
I've never owned a dog and as such can only speak for cats, but:

1. You're shooting for high protein %, low carb/fat.
2. NO corn, soy, wheat, (the three most problematic fillers/allergens, especially in dry food), or artificial colors/preservatives.
3. First ingredient is a meat, always. In terms of meat ingredient quality, [animal] > [animal] meal > [animal] by-product.
4. AT MINIMUM, 2 of the top 5 ingredients should be meats. More is always better - cats are obligate carnivores!
5. If not grain-free, grains should be farther down the ingredient list/not in the top 5 ingredients.

There's of course more to consider, but even just following these five rules will still net you some good foods. Wet is much better than dry due to having less fillers (unless you're comparing high-end dry to low-end canned) and higher moisture content.

>>1969070
>>1969976
Just pick Orijen. It's like 80% meat, 20% veggies, no cereals.

>>1969980
Orijen is really expensive for most people.

>>1969995
I don't know man, by the kilogram, it's a bit less expensive than the supermarket dog food everyone seems to always grab.
Now if you're buying supermarket-tier food from the Internet already, I guess Orijen is way more expensive, yeah.

We use Fromm for my dog. They have all these different flavors that you can add or switch and it keeps my dog pretty happy. Before that, he was on Solid Gold but it was definitely too rich for him.

>>1970002
Even on Amazon and Chewy.com Orijen is quite pricy. :(

My dog eats 4Health and I'm pretty happy with it, it's got a good score on Dog Food Advisor, but if I could afford it I would absolutely switch.

>>1970002
Nigga you playin', Orijen is one of the most expensive brands out there. ~$26 for a 5-lb bag not including S&H/tax. I'd buy the pricey high-end stuff like that if I was only feeding one cat, but I've got three.

>>1970017
>>1970018
Well I found some at 5,38€/kg. (70€ for 13kg)
Kibble in my local supermarket's like 6€/kg or even more.

>>1970020
Maybe it's a regional thing, considering I'm in the US? Lucky guy.

>>1970020
Damn you're lucky. In the united States it's almost $100 for a 26 lb bag.

>>1970021
Oh.

>>1970026
Oh shit what the fuck. And let me guess, that's 100$ before taxes?

>>1970028
Yep

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>>1970028
Yep.

I wish I was rich, my dog would be so damn spoiled.

Diamond Naturals for the dog mixed with taste of the wild when I can afford extra, and Perfect Bistro for the cat with an occasional Tykki Cat for a treat. Mostly stick to wet food for the cat. Its a little pricy but worth it cause he's growing fast.

Question for those saying Orijen is expensive- have you compared the feeding guides with what you're currently feeding? My dog eats Acana (same manufacturer as Orijen I believe) and only requires 2 cups a day. I know several people who feed other, cheaper brands that feed 4-5 cups a day. So although the bag is cheaper initially, it runs out quicker so works out to more expensive in the long run.
The 26 lb bag of Acana lasts about 4 weeks

Orijen for breakfast, and Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken for dinner for my two felines.

>>1970196
Grainfree acana costs around the same as orijen. However as i feed raw instead, it is like 1/3 of what i would have to pay for orijen. But if i get my financial shit right, i would like to switch to orijen as i find that safer

My puppy was on Fromm Gold Puppy, but he wasn't crazy about it and I had to add wet food along with the S&C I top it with to get him to even look at it.

I recently switched him to Wellness Complete Small Breed Puppy, and he loves it. Problem is, since switching his poops have been soft. I don't know if I should try adding pumpkin puree, or if the food is too rich for him... If it's the latter then I'm kind of fucked since it's already on the lower end of 'high protein' at 28%

>>1970261
There's no such thing as "too rich", it could be there's an ingredient that doesn't sit well with him or he just hasn't had enough time to adjust. Give it 2 months, if he's still having problems switch to something else.

>>1970261
How recent was the switch? It's normal to experience some tummy trouble when switching foods, even if done at a gradual pace.

>>1970261
>>1970263
The transition to Wellness from Fromm was over a course of 10 days and he's been exclusively on Wellness for a little over 2 weeks.

I've never had a small dog eat plain dry kibble so enthusiastically, so I really hope it ends up agreeing with him. I'll give it 2 months as suggested - his poop isn't completely horrible, just noticeably softer than when he was on Fromm.

Dogs on Supercoat & sardines from the supermarket, cats are on raw. I'd love to put my dog on raw as well but shes got bad back legs so I don't want to mess around with her diet so much. She gets lots of raw meaty bones, though.

>>1969070
Don't get anything with "meat by-product" if the ingredient isn't clear on what it is don't get it.

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>>1969035
My cat refuses to eat any wet food besides the cheap shitty meow mix. I tried a high quality real chicken food that needed to be refrigerated but she wouldn't touch it.

I needed to switch her diet because she was shedding absurd amounts and had constant dandruff. I couldn't even touch because of my slight allergies were making my eyes sting to the point where I was blinded by tears. I read she might need more oils online so I switched to a high quality brand from petco that was mostly normal ingredients and freeze dried. I choose salmon. She still sheds a shit ton but no more dandruff and I can tolerate petting her.

My dogs get blue senior formula. They seem fine with it. What really saw improvements was when we started giving them freshpet vital for their dinner. My oldest had a dry coat that sort of sucked the oils out of it and they were both pretty lazy (at 11 and 10 respectively). Their coat really improved and they are both a lot more active now, they both still don't like doing stairs anymore though.

I'd definitely recommend freshpet, it's basically just a sausage made from normal meat. It's 80% meat either turkey/chicken and some egg or beef/bison and beef/bison liver. The rest is vegetables and fruit like carrot, chickpea, spinach, or cranberries. None of those simple fattening carbs with low nutrients. The whole thing is pasteurized instead of loaded with preservatives.

>>1969075
Woah, are you me? I currently work at Petsmart and I've done that exact same thing. But yeah. Everything you said is spot on.

My four cats all eat Science Diet's Ideal Balance. It's a little more expensive for my budget but they love it and they thrive on it. I supplement it with a can of wet food per cat (except one who refuses to eat anything except her dry food) every three days or so. I usually pick Friskies or Fancy Feast as the wet food because it's more of a treat than their meal.

>>1971137
So you feed them kibble in the morning and the freshpet for dinner? How do you portion it out correctly so you aren't over or under feeding them? I'm curious because I'm thinking of doing this for my dogs.

>>1971230
I leave their kibble out for them whenever they want it. They've never eaten that much of it at once and I only go through a 10lb bag once every two months. I feed them freshpet vital low end recommendation for a diet consisting only of it.

>>1969075
Grain free doesn't mean much if it's replaced with equally useless or detrimental filler, though.

>>1969075
There are certainly better food out there, but for the price, PetSmart brands are about as good as you can get in their respective brackets.
Grain free isn't going to make a difference unless your pet has a grain allergy. They just replace the grains with potatoes. It's mostly hype.

>>1969976
>grain free
See above.
Animal meal is higher in protein per lb. No reason to think of it as less quality than [meat].

>>1970020
5,38€/kg is still about 3USD/lb. That's not bad, but it's certainly pricier than the $1/lb "supermarket dog food everyone seems to always grab" (Pedigree).

>>1971229
Is the first ingredient corn? Science Diet has a habit of having a massive amount of fillers in their "very high quality expensive" foods.

>>1971268
First ingredient is chicken.

>>1971268
I'll add that I looked at Simply Nourish's "Grain Free Salmon Formula for cats" or whatever it's called, and the first ingredient on the bag is actually potatoes instead of meat like in their regular foods.

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>>1971269
I think you could do better for the money, but that's just, like, my opinion, man. If your cats are doing well on it and the cost isn't an issue for you, I wouldn't worry about it much.

>>1971280
I'll look into it! Thanks for the advice.

>take this entire thread and every post in it
>replace "grains" with "carbs"
It's like people don't know the difference.

Two cats, on 2/3 Wellness Core mixed with 1/3 Orijen. I can't remember why I started combining the two, but it's what they're settled on now and they seem pretty fucking healthy on it.

Thing is, though, they absolutely despise the food itself. Every day I dispense it, they take one sniff and nibble at it then give me a glare like I'm serving them literal dirt. I spent just one summer with a roommate who had a cat and fed her the lowest of the low, Special Kitty. My cats invaded her space and horked it up like it was crack cocaine. I think they have a permanent craving for nastified grains now that will never, never ever go away.

Special Kitty: not even once.

Well, I heard Whiskas causes tooth decay, liver failure and digestive system problems so I feed my cat with meat, cheese and other dairy products.

Can anyone vouch for one of the car food brands Sam's usually carries?
I got a fuckton of kittens, and buying small bags is getting expensive as fuck. But I also want them healthy.

I feed mine Pure Balance, and even though it's only at Wal-Mart it's surprisingly pretty good and cheap.

two meals of weruva fowl ball a day, and some fromm family to munch on in between.

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If anyone ITT is interested:

I attended a pet nutrition seminar this evening hosted by a prominent nutritionist with decades of experience and expertise, feel free to ask general nutrition questions and I will do my best to answer based on information he discussed.

>>1972304
What was their opinion on the wet vs. dry cat food debate?

>>1972027
I don't know Sam's Club, so I just looked at their website... buddy, I'm sorry, but literally all of their dry food is total garbage. I can't even recommend a particularly shiny turd from the shitpile.

I think you can get 15lb bags of Taste of the Wild for ~$32?

>>1972304
What would be the best brand considered for a non working type puppy?
I'm leaning towards Acana.

>>1972304

Does the quality of food REALLY have an impact on the longevity/health of your pet. I don't mean shitty anecdotal "his coat is much shinier". I mean If you had 3 identical dogs on 3 seperate foods, one the most espensive, one in the middle and one on the lower end, would their really be a difference between them?


Is there a difference between cat and dogs? Given dogs reputations for being able to eat pretty much everything.

>>1972348
there is one study of hunting dogs done with side-by-side comparisons using different dog foods and apparently the dog food company that paid for the study produced food that improved their hunting abilities and stamina.

not that that says anything about health or longevity, but presumably matching nutrition to activity level would improve health?

not the anon you're asking, just a random dood that has read way too more scientific studies on canine nutrition than is strictly necessary.

>>1972350

Well my two major issues with that are
>company that paid for the study
>improved their hunting abilities and stamina.

It seems like such an easy thing to study. Get a litter of dogs, a large breed so they have shorter lives and then feed them different foods.

I mean it would make sense that feeding "healthier" foods would lead to healthier dogs, but who actually knows. I mean, if a dog can be fed lower quality food and still live a long life (just as long as a dog on expensive food), then what's the incentive to buy the expensive stuff?

>>1972352
I don't really know if you posted here before being a namefag, so I'm not sure if you were in on those talks a couple years back.

my own findings dredging through google scholar for hours on end were that grains are more digestible and nutritious than meats, and that meat byproducts and scraps were more than dogs need, i.e. anything better than scraps and shit is probably wasted on them.

unless you have a working dog that uses a lot of calories and burns a lot of protein. In that case you probably will see benefits from better quality meats and less plant matter.

but I don't think most of /an/ keeps that kind of dog....

>>1972352
>It seems like such an easy thing to study.
easy but pretty unlikely.

you say you studied science, how likely would you say you are to complete a study that requires keeping up to 300 dogs for 8 years or more?

where would you seek funding for this study? Dog food companies are unlikely to fund it because only one of them can come in first place and they don't honestly know which one it would be.

>>1972358

Yeah, but not that far back. That's really interesting though.

>>1972361

I meant on the technical side...

Ps, you wouldn't do "300" dogs at once and there's always surveys you can run on the general population.

>>1972364
>there's always surveys you can run on the general population.
surveys run into all kinds of biases as you know.

also of course surveys don't control any variables so they're pretty meaningless in a scientific sense whereas a lab experiment would be meaningful but wouldn't be applicable to reality.

The biggest opponents to science in this regard would still be pet food companies though, whether you did a survey or an experiment. Simply because only one of them is likely to benefit from it and they don't know which one.

The simple reality is that the public thinks high quality foods are natural and beneficial for their pets while in practice the animal probably just wants to feel full and doesn't care if that full feeling comes from corn or prime rib.

>>1972328
I'll look into that, thanks.
It's a shame they don't carry at least one decent brand.

>>1972358
Suppose you have a dog with a daily caloric requirement of about 2200-2500Kcal. He's 35kg, but highly active. Many of the cheaper dog foods average about 250-350Kcal/cup. To maintain my dog's weight I would literally be feeding him between 8 and 10 cups of food per day, which is unwise -- feeding too much in any one meal can increase the risk of bloating in a large dog. I want to feed him the same amount of calories in a smaller meal.

To give perspective, Eukanuba Performance 30/20 Sporting Dog Food only has 385Kcal/cup.

Now, compare that to a dog food such as Addiction (LaPorcetta.) 485Kcal/cup. That's only 5-6 cups daily.

Suppose he's grain intolerant as well as being an extremely high-energy dog. Grain, while it may offer short-term energy, is also one of the highest food intolerances among dogs, next to chicken.

Orijen (Six Fish) is an option 478Kcal/cup.

So is Acana (Grasslands) 423Kcal/cup.

In the long run, it's safer, healthier, and more cost effective to feed the dog the better food.

Of course, you can always just take your chances with the cheaper food and leave your dog itchy from his grain intolerance and running the risk of bloating every day because he's eating two or three cups more at every meal than he should be and over-distending his stomach just so he can maintain weight.

>>1972374
>In the long run, it's safer, healthier, and more cost effective to feed the dog the better food.
I agree entirely.
you need to take the activity level and tolerances of your individual pet into consideration.

the simple reality is that most dogs aren't allergic to grains and don't have problems with bloating. If your pet is an exception you'd be far better off feeding it what it needs.

just like if you own a Porsche you'd best be feeding it premium gasoline.

most people don't own a Porsche.

>>1972324
Wet, absolutely.

He is a major proponent for raw diets. Just for background: he has a PhD in animal nutrition, he started off decades ago formulating veterinary diets for kibble manufacturers before leaving due to his disagreement with the quality of ingredients chosen by manufacturers, he then went into zoo nutrition where he was a major advocate for species-appropriate whole food diets, now he's a consultant for several formulated raw brands for dogs and cats.

One thing he recognizes as a fundamental problem with kibble manufacture is the high proportion of soluble carbohydrates, which are broken down as sugars. One statistic he brought up: when you look at naturally-occurring foods soluble carbohydrates make up on average just 7% of what's out there in the world (3% if you remove the outlier--honey). Compare that with kibble which is (at best) 30% carbs.

Now one thing he did mention, is some is better than nothing, so if you can't afford an all meat-based diet your pet will still benefit of you include as much as you can. He has a pack of fox hounds, for example, whom he must feed 50/50 kibble/raw for cost reasons. Ideally, though, it should be as close as you can get to a 100% meat-based diet.

>>1972332
We did not talk about specific brands, but rather what makes up a healthy diet in general. Universally he recommends looking for a food with as few soluble carbohydrates as possible, so Orijen at 30% is better than Acana which runs 40%. If you really want to lower the meat inclusion in a food it's best to do so by adding whole fresh fruits and vegetable rather than carbs, but in general even the best kibble with a "high" meat inclusion is relatively low from an evolutionary standpoint.

>>1972348
>Does the quality of food REALLY have an impact on the longevity/health of your pet
Yes, but high price does not necessarily indicate quality, you have to look at what the food is actually made up of.

>Is there a difference between cat and dogs?
Surprisingly, not much from a digestive physiology standpoint, outside of a cats inability to synthesize taurine.