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Ok so late last year I had a choice:
>send kids back to one room preschool where they were eternally bored and with a bully (teachers kid literally got rewarded for being human daily in front of everyone)
>send kids to glorious six room preschool with twice the teachers and 1/3 of the students where the director seemed awesome young and fun that just so happened to be Lutheran
Salient points:
1. there are literally no other options (e.g. hour drive each way, stay at home) until kindergarten
2. kids are super fucking smart. not just being a parent here, they're sharp but it also means they get bored with repetitive lessons and can be a handful.
So I chose the multi room Lutheran school. Three weeks ago at the start we find out that the pre-k director we really liked has left and been replaced by basically a mom. Two weeks in my kids stopped eating lunch so we went and had a chat with the teacher, Ms. A. Basically she admitted she makes them eat their sandwich first, they may not eat it in parts, and have to eat all of everything before touching the chocolate, which is pretty much the story I got from them. This is absolutely diametrically opposite of what we do (and with good reason, my kids will try everything and eat and enjoy most of it, despite going chocolate first). Because of the disparity we arranged to meet the teacher and find out from her what is going on. She in turn changed her tune and said she didn't in fact make them eat the sandwich, the whole don't pick it apart was some other kids who are habitual pickers and incidentally maybe it was Ms. B who has them one afternoon who maybe was the one who was actually strict about lunch etc. She basically just dissembled and blamed Ms. B. We came away very dissatisfied, however there was already some indication Ms. B is a pretty traditional authoritarian so we couldn't really discount it entirely.
In any case this last week, week three, Ms. B was a full time sub for Ms. A away at a wedding.
cont.
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>>18704562
In addition two new “teachers assistants” have joined who we haven’t met.
The result being last night I found my four year old looking in the mirror going “You don’t RESPECT and you don’t BELIEVE” over and over, and I was of course like “what in the everloving fuck is this?!” to myself.
So in the ensuing discussions with the kids, my spouse and our occasional nanny today (no school) basically the subject (respect/believe) brings my kid to tears, can almost certainly be traced back to their full days without Ms. A and that someone (Ms. B, Ms C, Aide D, or Aide E) is an authoritarian who cannot conceive of a generation not taught to blindly respect God and therefore all his proxies.
So the natural reaction is to get my helicopter parent on and go have a chat to find out where (who) this phrase might be coming from, get the story from the horses’ mouth and see if it syncs up with the childs’ reaction. The problem is, as we saw with the lunch ordeal is we will have to get all the teachers together at once, and probably the aides so nobody can go, “ah well it must have been Ms. Not me” again.
But you pile that on top of the whole lunch thing and the serious damage that has already done to my kids’ formerly excellent eating habits and salt it with the fact that one of my kids is literally just crying at the mention of the subject and suddenly it’s more of a “what the fuck they are never going back” reaction.
They are back Tuesday, and the only course of action I see is honestly to go in Monday and ask for a refund and withdraw them entirely. Anything else would be an attempt at mitigating, and no matter what we do there will be no separating them from Ms. B or the aides all the time. I haven’t met the new aides, but Ms.es A, B and C are older and all seem pretty entrenched in their style so reagardless of lip service I don’t expect anything to actually change. We’re taking the weekend to consider it and so I’m asking /adv/.
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>>18704566
So the first question is: does pulling them out of pre-k without warning seem unwarranted? I understand they’ll have to deal with idiots and bad teachers their whole lives, but it’s clearly still early enough that these things are having lasting impact right now in ways that already may never be undone. I can only guess what is happening in the black box which is school but the effects are severe and may already affect them for life.
Second is, if I do pull them out, how important do you think it is to find out exactly what happened with the respect/believe scenario? I mean am I going “just give me a refund and we’re gone, we don’t need to discuss” or “just give me a refund and explanation and then we’re gone”. Do I care who/why/how, do I care if it was all a total accident/misunderstanding if that led to my kid in tears? Does it matter what happened in the box, or just removing them from it?
Any other helpful thoughts or insights?
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If you aren't making the adjustments in your life to home school your children you are fucking up.
Either do it right or just send them where the fuck ever because it's not going to matter at that point.
Don't let any school system raise your kids for you.
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>>18704572
I'm not a parent, but this strikes me as the kind of thing where you need a very clear, outright explanation of what happened and what was taught, so you can reverse any further issues with your kids and address what was taught.
>>18704576
Home schooling should be an absolute crime. My cousins were home schooled and are completely socially crippled. They're both in their 30s and rely on their mom to still give them direction in life and permission to stray from their neighborhoods.
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>>18704613
Cherry picking shitty parents is easy as fuck no matter what demograpic.
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>>18704620
It's been pretty standard among all homeschooled people I know. With a few exceptions, they're undereducated or completely socially incompetent. Both of those things are important to be a well rounded adult.
Homeschooling teaches kids that there is always going to be an authority figure to hold their hand through issues and that they can retreat to a safe spot instead of addressing conflict.
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>>18704613
>>18704650
the whole homeschooling post is a basic logical fallacy, ergo bait.
also if you think homeschool kids are warped you should try meeting their parents- it's like mixing Charles Manson, vegans and the worst bits of /pol/. Literally Jehovah's Witnesses are better adjusted and less pushy.
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>>18704650
>>18704668
Say the people with no kids, and apparently no critical thinking skills.
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>>18704672
>pic related
just kidding. pretty sure it's both.
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>>18704562
OP, you seem to know your children really well and can tell when something has messed with them. I would agree with >>18704613, you need to demand an explanation.
Of course, don't feel like this is something that will fuck your children up forever. I was an extremely sensitive child, I'm still a pussy crybaby to this day, and apparently when I was 7 or 8 a stupid kid "teacher's aide" or whatever straight up yelled at me and hit me multiple times in front of many people and had to even come to our house to apologize, and I say apparently because I literally remember none of this. Oh, and when I was 6 some kid who had been molested at home would pinch at a bunch of kid's crotches including mine, and I don't remember that shit at all either. I'm not saying that something a kid has no memory of can't affect them, but I'm saying it usually is not as traumatic as it would seem to an adult. Don't stress to much about doing the wrong thing, I personally think 80% of how people turn out is usually genetics anyway. Just try your best to find out exactly what's happening and what happened, and counsel your child about it yourselves as necessary because you know what's best for them and if you know the exact situation I'm sure you'll make good choices about how to proceed.
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>>18704562
my advice is pull the kids out of pre K and have them spend that year with family instead. There is no reason to stick them in school so young, they would be better off spending that time bonding with their parents.
I am a parent of a 6 year old btw, and she just started first grade at a private catholic school after a totally fucked kindergarten year at public school.
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>>18705511
>claiming you're perfectly fine on 4chan
Thanks though, I appreciate the insight.
>>18705801
I can literally count on the fingers of one hand each full day I have been away from them since birth. They love school- they love the academic part anyway, the playground, most of the other kids and having some structure. They really thrive on it but the reality is they are more than ready for kindergarten academically (probably would qualify for 1st grade academically) but not socially.
I really think some part time pre-K is really good for them, particularly for them and also because I am fully aware I am not capable of providing educational structure at home- it's actually a little weird, but because I'm with them nearly 24/7 already I cannot even sit and work on a pre-K trace the letters workbook with them. As good as "I will just do it myself (homeschool)" sounds I have to admit that I am just not capable of providing that.
Despite that home is still a better option than souring on school before they've really started. In fact part of the reason we ditched the first school is the K teacher was widely regarded as being merely adequate or outright bad. Luckily for next year a 3rd school is being built just in time for their K year, and all signs look good for that to be their K thru 6th+
Still I have this year in front of me...
So what did happen with your kid in K if you don't mind sharing? How is the catholic school working?
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>>18704562
Honestly it sounds like you're both the problem. So they want your kid to eat a different way than at home and your parent instinct kicks in. Your reaction to the situation probably didn't help your kids grasp the reality that it's just lunch and you're supposed to eat it.
Regarding the respect/believe thing, it's a religious school and they will try to indoctrinate kids through ROTE. It's probably a classroom punishment or something. I feel like maybe your method of questioning that could have stressed your kid out on top of whatever the cause was. The teacher is overbearing but so are you but they won't back down so pull your kids because at least one of you can work on your skills for the benefit of your children.
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>>18705896
Yeah the 4chan thing isn't great but hey if I never came here I wouldn't have met my fiancé so I think it all worked out in the end.
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>>18705896
>So what did happen with your kid in K if you don't mind sharing? How is the catholic school working?
The school she was attending was a brand new "Expeditionary Learning" school. My daughter stagnated in the completely unstructured environment for a year. The place was like a glorified day care with overcrowded classes and overworked teachers in a high minority neighborhood.
The Catholic school is good so far, small class sizes, no minority kids, better teachers. I'm not too hot on the religious aspect of but the quality of the education is orders of magnitude superior. My daughter likes it better to, and is, at least so far, making steady academic progress.
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>>18705925
>it's just lunch and you're supposed to eat it.
They used to eat just fine, food has never been an issue until they were made to feel bad about how they were eating by the school.
And they are supposed to be teaching/disciplining through "Love and Logic", not through whatever happened. I assumed they'd bring religion into it and I'm not questioning their use of Jesus or God as their authority, the other part- the part you mistakenly call rote, is thought/discipline through authoritarianism, e.g. because I said so no questions.
It's the authoritarianism that's the root of the problem I have with the school, both that they avowed they were not like that and the effects- which I feel is totally disproportionate to anything they should experience in school at this age. If it was a little bit, like the lunch issue, I'd just move forward, leave it as a life lesson and continue to deconstruct their sandwiches and not include dessert*. It's the whole scolding yourself in the mirror, crying about the subject that's got me worried- and incidentally I'm proud of my kids for being disturbed, it's the appropriate reaction in my opinion. I mean they even question me when I parent (how dare they!) and I welcome that because you can't expect your kids to stand up for themselves but blindly cow to you yourself.
*I think this is a good example of the fallacy of authoritarianism as applied in this experience (arbitrary rules regardless of behavior). A hershey kiss is a minor thing, however- if I pack a King Sized snickers as their morning snack (separate bag) they get to eat as much of it as they want- before lunch. Put one single hershey's kiss in their lunch however and they are not allowd to touch it until they've fully finished their sandwich and sides in a pre-approved manner. It's beyond fucking daft to me.
Regardless, thanks everyone for the discussion and for letting me prattle on my keyboard about it so far, it's all been helpful.
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>>18705987
>"Expeditionary Learning"
Yes they call that Montessori school here. We had a friend who's kid just literally sat in a corner all by herself all day. The good news is they are too expensive (25k+ most basic pre-K) for us to even consider.
There are a lot of glorified daycares around as well, I've been trying to avoid them but they aren't really close enough to be an option anyway.
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Wow. Just goes to show how fucked everyone is, the one anon with a legitimate answer just gets shit on and ignored. You basic bitch parents disgust me and you're all part of the bigger problems of shitty kids, whether you're a parent or not. School as we all knew it does not exist anymore. You fail to change with the times then your children, and by proxy all children, suffer. Get your kids out of school and raise them yourself. Take them across the country, fill their minds with useful, amazing things instead of fucking Sid the Science Kid and Paw Patrol (which in case you didnt know yet, pre through 4th grade now shows cartoons as a block of education)
If you think home schooling only leads to half retarded shut ins you need to get your head out of your ass. If you are a parent who believes these piece of shit schools can do a better job with your kids than you can, you should never have had kids. When you have children, they come first. First. Before your spouse, before your job, before your life, first. If you arent doing everything you can to make them awesome people then you are a shitty fucking failure.
The thing that kills me is im sure you faggots have been in a walmart. You know full well your kids are sitting next to Bubba and Bailey's six molested trailer trash half functional feral kids and you just shove your head further up your ass so you dont have to deal with the damage you're causing by not taking action for your children.
Fuck all of you shit enablers.
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>>18706062
Protip: even if you homeschool, your kids are still going to have to deal with Bubba and Bailey's trailer trash kids despite the years you spent hiding them from that reality.
That's why homeschooled kids are failures. Plus you're not as smart as you think you are, so your kid is going to be behind the curve compared to kids who get an education from a professional that has trained in this shit.
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>>18705987
>No minority kids
Stopped reading right there. Go fuck yourself and take your shitty kids with you.
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>>18704572
Parentfag here.
>does pulling them out of pre-k without warning seem unwarranted?
This is completely your choice and it doesn't matter what the preschool thinks.
>how important do you think it is to find out exactly what happened with the respect/believe scenario
Minimal importance. When you leave, the teachers will not change. What is more important is undoing this thinking on your children. Which is what will be up to you when you take them out of this school.
Honestly OP, if I had the choice when my kid was in pre-k, I would have kept her home, looked up kindergarten learning goals, and taught based off of those. I put my daughter in a preschool I hated, but needed because it was the only one I could get. It was terrible. Like, 36 kids, one teacher, two aides. Once my daughter came home crying because an aide called her a "hot mess" because she has long curly hair and she took out her ponytail during school. As well as many various incidents that just came off as rude.
To end it all, they gave me a report before she went into kindergarten which determined she was ready to thrive in that environment. Only to find that when she started kinder, she was one of the lowest-preforming kids in her class. They had changed the standard about a year before, and I stupidly had no clue. Apparently, most kids now have to be able to read right when they start kindergarten, whereas it used to be they actually learn to read in that first year. She was very aware that she wasn't on the same level as her peers and it crushed her and my spouse and I.
Had I just been able to keep her home and do it all myself, it totally would have benefited her academically and confidence-wise much more.
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>>18706096
You're a fucking idiot. I never said hide your kids, but you're not concerned with that. You'd rather sit around with your head up your ass than face reality. Fuck you, and fuck everyone like you. You think 4 years of cuck college somehow make Ms. Basic Bitch more qualified to raise your fucking spawn than you? Get bent faggot.
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>>18706096
Anon pls. One on one teaching will ALWAYS be more effective than group learning. It is painfully obvious that you did not even bother thinking about the drivel you just posted.
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>>18706105
>Stopped reading right there.
well you can live in denial if you want but there is a direct correlation between how shitty a school is and how many brown/black kids it has.
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Lmao, this is what you devoted your life to? Breeders are wild.
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>>18706125
Pulling your kids out of education IS hiding them. Opportunities for kids to be exposed to environments where they can be independent and safe are hugely limited. Most homeschool kids are stuck with their church, parent organized activities, or maybe possibly sports as their only outlets for social interaction, and in that case you as the parent are still pretty much around to be the enforcer and make sure that they don't have to stand up for themselves since they can rely on you to keep them safe and fight their battles.
4 years of education specifically focused on crafting a lesson plan around mathematics and sciences for children of a specific age DOES make them more qualified than your ass, who I'm assuming is some small business owner or tradesman that hasn't had to use geometry or biology or chemistry in 20 years.
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>>18706134
>One on one teaching will ALWAYS be more effective than group learning
[citation needed]
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>>18706162
>[citation needed]
are you retarded or something?
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>>18706171
are YOU?
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>>18706152
Why do you just assume that nobody can compensate and raise their kids in a healthy way? You are either ignorant as fuck, or just jaded. I love it when people like you meet my kids. The look on your simple ass faces when you have irrefutable proof that what I do works better is wonderful. Then we walk the fuck away and leave you to your Braydens and Rileys who cant speak and still shit themselves at age 5. My children have more life experience than most of the adults I grew up around. They are incredibly well rounded and excel at absolutely everything including adademics. But don't take my word for it, I home school so I must be raising shut ins with no social skills. No way around that amirite?
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>>18706173
>are YOU?
I think you probably are.
There is a direct correlation between the ratio of teachers to students and academic performance. 1 to 1 is the optimal situation. Or maybe you think classes with 35 kids and 1 teacher is just as good as 1 teacher with three kids?
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>>18706192
>There is a direct correlation between the ratio of teachers to students and academic performance.
yes
>1 to 1 is the optimal
does not necessarily follow from the first point. this is where I would like you to provide something other than "well OBVIOUSLY" to support your opinion.
>35:1 vs 1:3
false dilemma
In any case all teachers are not created equal, nor are all students. It's fine to consider all this in a vacuum with ideal actors, however I am very well aware through experience I am unable to teach educational material to my kids. Therefore I will always reject that with me as teacher 1:1 is better because it's not- I know the actual actors and environment involved. The statement is simply not universally true even if it could ever be said to be true in any case.
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>>18706220
During college (civil engineer) I spent a couple years as a volunteer high-school math tutor at a YMCA.
For me it was always easier to get one kid to learn something than trying to teach three at once.
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>>18704572
I've been home-schooled until the first grade (no preschool basically) and I'm really smart, and also the youngest in everything I've achieved because parents taught me how to write and read from an early age, and we often did read stories together. Why not do just that, when you take your glasses off and see that preschool is literally nothing and will do more harm than good on a young mind.
That being said, I'll never send my kids to preschool myself, when I am 100% certain that I can do a much better job at home.
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>>18706220
You didnt take the time to learn how to get through to your kids, shame on you.
You do not belong in a thread on parenting advice, unless you are seeking to unfuck yourself and your children. It is painfully obvious that you'd rather fight to show everyone that you'll never change or accept any ideas but your own, or people's who you view as above you. Shame.
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>>18706180
In most cases people can't. More power to you if you can educate your kids well, but I'll also caveat that if your kids are only 5, there is a LOT of work ahead that you will be less qualified for. When you're teaching handwriting and simple addition, I'm sure it's great. But when your kids are of middle school age or in high school, they will continue to fall behind the curve because I doubt you still remember the more complex subjects well enough to navigate them through complex problems or analysis.
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>>18706283
My five and seven year olds do long division past 5 places and understand more subjects than i'd take the time to post here. I'm not going to get into them though because if your only argument is along the lines of, 'well maybe in the future you will run into issues' then I think I've already convinced you to a point, or that you already knew that it is a better option for some. I dont think every parent is capable, obviously since I'm the one that mentioned Bubba and Bailey and their trailer trash hordes, but for young kids it is a much better environment to be taught by their own parents. When my kids are old enough, i will have no problems enrolling them if that is their choice. For now, though, they are years ahead of the curve and no one should give up on that level of functionality just because they cant fit their children's education into their schedules.
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>>18706281
Why does it bother you so much that I am aware of my limitations and instead of bulling through and acting like everything will be better if I only just pretended to be superhuman? Does it somehow reflect on your own choices? I mean you seem to be taking my limitations VERY personally.
In fact, you have no idea what the situation is yet you're just spewing "just try harder faggot" as advice and saying I don't belong in my own thread. It's like you're berating a guy for not standing during the national anthem. You're thinking you're proving how amazingly patriotic you for doing it, but in reality you're simply too dumb to consider maybe there is some information you don't have, e.g. the guy is in a wheelchair having lost his legs due to serving the same country. It's embarrassing but it's exactly what you're doing in ignorance.
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>>18706328
Jesus christ anon, do you literally have no self awareness?
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>>18706328
Well, I definitely can't dedicate the time to kids to educate them instead of sending them to school - and there are fewer and fewer parents who have the schedule flexibility or income to do so. I work 9-5, and basically always will unless I leave work, at which point the kids wouldn't have money for food or shelter.
I have nothing against Pre-K or even Kindergarten education under a parent, since they're all capable, but by first grade, I think it's time to let professionals handle it.
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>>18706334
I dont say try harder faggot, I say make whatever changes you have to make to raise your kids right and don't let any preconceived notions get in your way. I don't say I'm some hero for doing what every competent parent should do. You made the choice to raise children, now you make a choice to let someone else raise them. I'm not going to find your own situational answers for you, that's up to you. It is all in your hands anon. You make all the plays. You need to decide what you can live with and what you can't. Im not even sorry to say that I don't care if you're a model A stand up pillar of your community, if you are leaving it up to some shitty school to raise your young kids then you are fucking up. I'm hostile because I have seen the environments that parents let their kids live in due to muh job or muh schedule. No matter what reason or excuse you give it will never stack up in importance to your children's minds. You have a chance to raise awesome people, or basic bitch ones. Doesn't seem like much of a choice to me, but I guess I'm just sitting on my high horse or what the fuck ever.
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