What's wrong with learning to become emotionally manipulative?

>>18611856

Because if you can't build normal rapport with people honestly, theres probably a lot of shit about you that needs work.

And youre shoving it under a rug by just learning to manipulate people through deception, the rest of your quality of life will suffer anyway because you aren't addressing serious issues.

First,you have to analyse people`s mind,and then,findweak spots on their minds.That should help you with that.

>>18611863
Well here's the thing. I don't let things bother me and I feel I am on good terms with people. As a matter of fact, I'm actually the least likely to lie with people as I've been told I'm too honest at times. I don't like to cheat, lie, or steal with emotions but I'd like to know how for the sake of it. I wouldn't take pride in it, but I feel like it could be handy to know and understand to be better defended against it.

>>18611875
What you're saying here versus what you're saying in your OP is completely different.

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>>18611867
Through questioning and observation right?

>>18611877
Yeah I should have specified. Still, what's the best way to go about this?

>>18611856
Topkek

I grew up with an incredibly, unbelievably manipulative and somewhat abusive (emotionally) mother. I came to take on and inherit those characteristics, albeit unknowingly; never in a million years would I imagine that anyone would want to *learn* to be more like that. It's such a remarkably fucked up way to behave. I have to make a conscious effort *not* to be like that. It's not surprising that I've never had a healthy relationship in my life. Jesus...

>>18611856

you will need this to defend yourself from women

>>18612004
I'm sorry to hear about that man, but here's the thing. Wouldn't you be able to say you are better at recognizing when anyone tries to be like that to you or anyone else? Don't you think you know what it takes to figure out how to act to attain a certain power to yourself? I don't want to be like that, it would suck I'm sure but what's wrong with practice of knowledge even if it's wrong? I'm just saying there's something to learn and I wanna learn it. Maybe you could give me examples?

>>18611856
>i want to become a con artist

>>18612092
What's wrong with knowing about that? Knowledge is half the battle right?

>>18612099
It was more of a tl:dr
>go read books about being a con artist.

>>18611856
I mean if you're that desperate I guess you could learn how. But know that you'll only be able to fool emotionally unintelligent people. And all the people that clock you will immediately hate you and talk shit about you because psychopathy is disturbing and unattractive in the long-run

>>18611856
it's morally wrong, but moral is subjective so you can do what you want, actually
a lot of people do so, if you didnt notice is just that you really suck at it since most of times it's a subtle art. if you are too obvious it might work once but people will immediatly realize it after that

>>18612085
>Wouldn't you be able to say you are better at recognizing when anyone tries to be like that to you or anyone else?

I suppose so, but it's so incredibly subtle sometimes that I can't always be sure. I can be sure with my mother because, y'know, it's my mother and I've had years to study her playbook; so I know without any uncertainty when she's being manipulative.

>Don't you think you know what it takes to figure out how to act to attain a certain power to yourself?

Are you asking me whether or not I believe that the ability to manipulate someone emotionally is a powerful attribute or skill? It undoubtedly is.

>...but what's wrong with practice of knowledge even if it's wrong?

Well knowledge and practicing that knowledge are two very different things. Knowing what manipulative behavior looks like is one thing. Practicing that manipulative behavior is another.

>Maybe you could give me examples?

I could give you countless examples, but I'm not sure I want to. Look, it's not voodoo or magic or anything supernatural. It's not like some insane game of mental chess that you're playing. It's incredibly simple to be emotionally manipulative.

You withhold affection. You bring things up from the past that you know still stings the other person a bit. You turn it around on them and blame your own bad behavior on something they've done. You make them pray for your forgiveness and crave your approval. Just writing this stuff makes me sick, honestly.

>>18612142
Are you my ex boyfriend

>>18612151
Might be

>>18611856
It's not hard, it's quite easy because I lack the moral fiber to give a shit if someone gets screwed over. Everything can be taken in this world, so why not?

>>18612105
Will do.


>>18612124
Surely with enough patience and subtlety anyone could be fooled right?

>>18612140
Yeah I figured people already do it, also yeah I thought exploring immoral practices isn't something to shy away from.

>>18612142
Sorry about your mom man, but thanks for replying. Much appreciated, and as far as those examples go it would best to just figure them out from others right?

>>18612170
How do you go about it? Daily or is it only occasionally that you find you need to be like that?

>>18612195
I can only hope whoever you're trying to manipulate will be able to see through your bullshit facade.

>>18611856

because manipulation is literally just trying to control people to do what you want, as opposed to letting them make their own decisions based on what is actually happening.

that being said, sure go for it, you'll pretend to be some master of peoples lives for a few weeks, forget about it and move on. everyone does small amounts of emotional manipulation but most people simply arent smart enough to run their entire lives off of it.

>are there any books on this topic

only pop psychology pieces that will say shit like 'OH ASK THEM IF YOU CAN BORROW A PENCIL THEN GIVE IT BACK WHEN YOU'RE DONE CUZ THAT MAKES PEOPLE LIKE YOU :3'

the whole point of manipulation is that you are catering to someone. people arent robots. to make a woman fall in love you don't just do the same 3 tricks to all women, you have to read the people, figure out their weaknesses, then exploit them. a book can't really help you, its real world, real time problem solving.

This doesn't work except on people who are already predisposed to be susceptible to emotional abuse because it's how their parents were or etc.

If you try to pull this shit on a normal person they will just not take you seriously and write you off as either a retarded pscyho or just plain asshole and have nothing to do with you.

>>18612195
>I thought exploring immoral practices isn't something to shy away from.
E D G Y
study all emotions and the basic reactions they trigger, then move accordingly to your aim
remember, you are disgusting, and i hope some day you try your tricks on the wrong one and get killed

>>18611856
>Because if you can't build normal rapport with people honestly, theres probably a lot of shit about you that needs work.

This is a fallacious argument. Maybe someone doesn't need to work on those things, because you're assuming that first those things actually need work and second they're inherently good things to have, as evidenced by your suggesting they need work.

>>18611856

Just do it, op. If you don't have it in you, you will get used by others. Women learn this skill and understanding in primary school.

>>18612204
It's not anyone specific, just to see what it's like.

>>18612221
I see, thanks for some advice.

>>18612253
Are you sure? I think anyone could be prone to it someway or somehow.

>>18612287
Oh dude I don't wanna take it that far at all... jeeze

>>18612346
Okay so you're another person who said to go for it but nobody has really given much advice or examples. Can you start?

>>18612221
>because manipulation is literally just trying to control people to do what you want, as opposed to letting them make their own decisions based on what is actually happening.


We literally manipulate people all day every day.

If you 'connect' with someone, its not like there's some metaphysical or magical god-given connection there, its just that you remind them of someone and they're drawn to you for inherent traits.

This is why so many women get used up vaginally by 'assholes'. They're drawn to someone without any conscious reason why, and end up sad and lonely.

Just being alive is manipulation of others. When you talk to a sales clerk, you are manipulating them into ringing you up, and they are manipulating you into a sale.

When people talk about bad manipulation, they mean basic crafts of lies, fake personalities, and button pushing.

All interaction is manipulation. Not all interaction is 'bad' manipulation.

And what is good and bad manipulation changes depending on the point of view of the people involved, the microculture, etc.

For instance, a woman could brag about being a strong, independent woman who doesn't take shit.

In 'reality', she could be emotionally manipulative by making people afraid around her and 'walking on eggshells', so they'll 'behave better' to not 'set her off'.

Consider if she will get pissed and punch you as the boyfriend for looking at some hot girl's ass. Or she'll yell at you and then withhold sex later on. These are her being 'a strong woman who won't be disrespected' in her view and possibly a LOT of other people's views as well, but it IS also easily labeled as physical/emotional abuse and manipulation to get the boyfriend to keep his eyes down and away from other women as a means of her controlling him.

Manipulation, good or bad, its all dependent on what side of the coin you're on. I see people/friends/acquaintances engage in the same exact shit they claim other people do on the daily which they hate.

>>18612372
>Okay so you're another person who said to go for it but nobody has really given much advice or examples. Can you start?


Here

>>18612377

And further.

For instance. Who here agrees that being fake is shitty manipulative behavior?

I have a girl that gets drunk and will say "hey, thats a nice shirt" to me constantly. She's not being sincere in my opinion, she's married to some other guy, but she does this as an 'opener' to connect with me.

Is she looking for me to 'turn on' and start desiring her sexually because of some deep seated broken need in her? Im willing to bet yes because she drinks like a fish, and she's young.

>>18612387
Or she could just be doing it as a form of communication that is just 'small talk' in order to have a small connection.

Maybe she has learned that people will find her boring or be unwilling to talk to her if she doesn't compliment them.

Google Succeedsocially, a good website. Google "How to win friends and influence people". These places and books sound 100% like 'learn to manipulate others into liking you' from my point of view, because it reduces the organic process to a set of instructions, and when you follow a script you're being manipulative, right?

Well, people do this all the time with each other anyway. People act nice to each other, take interest in each other, etc, and reap benefits from it.

No one stays friends with a person that insults them, throws them on the ground and then kicks them in the head. We DO stay friends or grow in closeness with people that are


Good for us.

As in, they give us something we like, so we keep going back for more. Classic Pavlovian training.

>>18612387
>>18612404


This is how relationships in the sexual vein work as well. When we cry and are sad about a breakup, its because we lost something that it "good for us".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMcHtSjtNBY

We tend to want more of things that make us happy, and less of things that make us unhappy. So we gravitate towards those who make us happy, and away from those who make us unhappy.

Are we using those people just to fill up our happiness meter? Do we actually care about them?

>>18612411
>>18612404
>>18612387
>>18612377
>>18612346


Consider the following.

I've said before that we see fakery a manipulative and wrong.

However I was hanging out with some older people, and they were talking to each other about wine, of all things. They had a length discussion. They looked like they were enjoying it.

One got up and left, and the other turned and said "man every time he talks I just want to throw a bottle at his head".

Whoa!

I thought this guy was a nice guy. He was so pleasant and willing in that conversation, but he ended up acting like he found it a drag and hated having to do it.

At the same time, previously, this same guy said "how come you don't talk more?" to me prior to this event.

So on the one hand he's saying I should be more social, on the other hand he exposed exactly what I thought, that you might talk to someone and they might smile and engage in you like you matter and they care, only to be trash talked the moment you leave.

And this person is not unrespectable. He's a musician, has a decent job, is married, and loving attentive etc.

But then he puts on this fakery show.

I've actaully gotten people mad at me for NOT being fake. For blowing people off Im not interested in talking to. I think they think I'm being manipulative because Im not interested in talking to someone, especially a girl, unless I'm going to 'gain' from it.

But that's what we all do. Consider another example. An old man in a bar talks to a couple of hot young girls. They keep on blowing him off and using him for drinks money, but they have no intention of putting out. Eventually they want him to leave them alone and my friend asks me if he should do something.

But... they did not make it clear they didn't want to talk to him, and they were clearly using him to get some desires of theirs filled in the moment.

He was looking to them to get his desires filled.

I don't talk to a girl unless I want to date or to fuck.

>>18612426
So I don't really talk to girls in general unless I'm sexually interested in them. This might come off as creepy or manipulative or self-serving.

But that's how the girls above acted as well. They used a person to their own benefit but had no intention of 'putting out' for his desires.

It seems like everyone uses others, and I want to say that it appears as though if everyone gets what they want out of the human transaction, then no one is the 'loser' who's been taken advantage of, right?

But people still want you to be fake. Its called social graces or manners.

>>18612435
Interesting way of thinking and behaving man. I also think countries need to fly out the window, they're just annoying to keep especially when you want to get something out of someone. When you give courtesy to someone, sometimes you end up hating them.

>>18612435

In a world of manners, blunt honesty and self-involvement looks like manipulation and selfishness.

Pretenses of manners make a person look like an honest and moral person.

>>18612490
Yeah what's the deal with that.

https://youtu.be/0e58SiFSxLs?t=72

>>18611856
For an easy, accessable start read or listen to the audiobook versions of Robert Greene.

>48 laws of power
>The art of seduction
>33 strategies for war
>Mastery

After that, I guess you could read actual psychology books, and more importantly start experimenting in your daily life with social manipulation. Nothing you read will actively make you better.

>>18611856
>Teach me how to be a sociopath
Is what I'm reading. Which might also answer your questions.

>>18613188
Yeah, whatever man.

>>18613188
You're either a shark or a sheep. If you're a shark then you don't look back because sharks don't have necks. Necks are for sheep.

>>18612287
>edgy
>I hope you die

WOW EDGE, SUCH DOUBLE

>>18611856

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgJ1n9DF1WE here you go you fucking slut.

>>18613777
Thanks man

>>18611856

sounds like something a woman or a gook would do.

>>18614405
What the fuck

>>18611856
Take advantage of people's lack of confidence and try to remain almost indifferent of their feelings unless it's the feeling you want them to feel. Finding out what makes them tick first is key to later jabbing at it with a big stick.

>>18615434

Are you saying its not? Women chronically lie about their motives and say PC things. They are really selfish evil incarnate.

>>18611856
I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as you're just using it as a tool to get ahead and not specifically to hurt people because you find pleasure in being manipulative.

>here are some ways you can be better about going about this?

I don't think you can become good at this if you don't have the baseline personality to disregard morals. You'd have to learn to go against your personal beliefs without caring about consequences, while also not giving a shit about the other person. You'd have to be able to naturally disconnect yourself from people so you don't care about how you are going to screw them over.

I can't imagine this kind of behavior can be learned without already having a natural lack of empathy.