Is suicide justified?

No, suicide is for the weak

>>18585972
define "justice"

>>18585972
Is it justified?
Ask yourself that.
We've no say in what you do with your own life.
You're death is your's alone.
Now on the other hand if you wanna talk about
it. Let it fly and I'll try to give you some /adv/.

I don't think it represents complete control and liberation of your own life. People tend to commit suicide because outside factors cause them to feel a certain way. They only commit suicide because things happen that cause them pain. That's not taking control of your life, that's just reacting to life around you. Controlling and liberating your life is lifting yourself above reacting to things that happen around you and letting outside factors influence your decision

>>18585972
No, it's illogical.

>>18586226
Yes but it is certainly liberating you from the pain and a life you deemed a burden. You could of course choose to deal with the pain as many do. Simply tolerating the pain however certainly isn't freedom. Yes in this case solving the problem or committing suicide would be your two roads to freedom.

>>18586263
Why would ending your life be liberating it? Solving the problem sounds like the true way to free your life. Suicide doesn't free your life, it just makes your life no longer exist. There's nothing to liberate anymore.

>>18586078
Defining justice, as in opposing to moral rules. Moral tells us not to commit suicide but if we are our own gods and commanders, who's to say we can't do that?

>>18586272
Well the idea of nothing sounds nice compared to constant pain. We don't know what the "pain" is so we can't really judge it against oblivion.

>>18586208
I meant justified from a moral point of view.

>>18586283
It can be any level of pain, really. From not getting your dream job to being somebody's slave.

>>18586285
Are you talking about depression and mental issues resulting in suicide or medical Euthanasia?

But yes I think their are conditions for suicide.

>>18586272
Ending your life means not having to exist in that cruelty anymore.

Takes more courage to suicide than to live.

>>18586293
No, I mean completely conscious suicide. Like, you are happy with the thought of you ending your life whenever it goes the wrong way.

>>18586302
I am the OP, why do you think suicide takes more courage?

>>18586246
No it's not. We're intellectually evolved to the point where our instincts of self preservation are overidden by our search for meaning. Animals don't question why they're here, but we do because we're more intelligent. If some people cannot find meaning and don't enjoy life, then for them the most logical action might be suicide.

>>18586302
This. I have no will to commit suicide, but I have to hand it to the folk who do. Taking that leap must be frightening as all hell. I'm sure various mental illnesses make a decent push, but straight going through with it requires something I certainly do not have.

>>18586304
Fuck It I admit it.
I can be having a perfectly normal day sometimes and think to myself "I might kill myself when I get home".
No pain or self loathing. I just really don't wanna do it.
I've got a loving family.
Sweet GF.
Piles of good friends who respect me.
Money in the bank.
I just don't want to do it.
It's all just benign thoughts until or if it happens.

>>18585972
Hello, Mr. Schopenhauer.
"Life is meaningless, but death is even more" or something like that.
Really, life has no meaning. We're animals whose job is to reproduce and make next generation better. Complexity of our brains needs more though...
Best ways to feel happy and meaning of life is to make a goal the harder it is to reach the better. And while you try you'll feel like you have purpose.
Unless... You reach that goal... Then it's all misery again.
So... Make an impossible goal for your life.

And to a question if suicide can be justified: yes, it can. But, I think only person who can justify it is already dead...
No matter how hard you'll try to convince someone that this is best thing for you, everyone always will think that you have problems and that's why you want to kys...
Although, being dead means that there is no more "I". So really, this life is only thing humans have.
Having said that, I will kill myself before I won't be able to function as normal human being (physically). That's justifiable in my eyes.

>>18586317
I agree. I met a guy just like that, he was bored of life and wanted to kill himself. I talked him out of doing it by saying that we have to live just to see what the world will amount to, what great steps forward humanity will take. But ever since then, I have questioned my reasons a lot and don't know if I am right anymore.

>>18586302
Horse shit. You couldn't deal with the factors that life gave you so you ran from it by killing yourself.

>>18586341
You are correct and make a pretty valid point. My idea of life and suicide is similar to yours. I never considered the "high goal" idea. But it's just; if I were to tell anyone irl about my thoughts on suicide, they would call me crazy and a depressed social outcast. Keeping thoughts to myself is hurting me.

>>18586349
Tell me that after you kys. Its not as easy as you think. Stop being selfish. Why do you think some places offer assisted suicide. Derp.

>>18586307
Because I'm a coward. And I'm alive because of that. Any ONE who flees from battle is a coward. most ppl call you a heroes for dieing, even though you knew it would be suicide to go to battle. What's the difference ?

>>18586387
Well, running to die in battle means you at least tried to fix your situation.

>>18586370
I know what you mean. Another way to look at this: telling someone that you think about suicide, because of social norm to live and help others, is same as forcing them to be responsible for your life.
I told someone, tried to prepare that person to not change opinion about me, to not act differently... In the end I still can't talk about it openly with the person. And my jokes about suicide suddenly not that funny...

>>18586272
Lukemia ... Diseases that have no cure and cause massive pain and kills slowly.

>>18586394
> suicide is like cancer
nigger suicide can be cured by not committing it

>>18586391
As a soldier its rarely my situation I'm sent to fix. Hence, suicide.
The boy who cried wolf, was a suicide.

>>18586401
Cancer is cured by dieing ... Nigger.

>>18586401
I pray you die from leukemia ... Just to force you to eat your own words.

>>18585972
Yes, it absolutely is. It's the most responsible choice anyone can make. I don't mean "responsible" as a euphemism for "wise", I mean that it's the choice for which your own responsibility is most complete. A humiliated and abused person can still make a stand for their dignity by committing suicide.

>>18586402
You do have a point with that

>>18586040
medical assistance is also for the weak

medical assistance confirmed for not justified

>>18586420
I guess you are right with that. I will only kill myself once I see no fix in my life.

>>18586428
Same.

Suicide should be allowed because one should be the only person to decide about ones life.
However, it is causes great suffering to those who remain.
So you should be free to kys but it's a totally selfish and dickish thing to do.

>>18586417
> Implying
are you retarded leukemia isn't preventable you dumb nigger , suicide is only retards think suicide isn't preventable

>>18586449
That's what I've been struggling witht the entire time. Suicide is justified but it will immensely hurt the people around you. I am not blaming them, we are emotional beings. I would break down into sadness if someone I cared about died.

>>18586449
The selfishness thing is a shitty argument, because if you're hurt enough to consider suicide, you're not going to be convinced by the idea that you owe it to people not to harsh their mellow. Most of the time, it's the same people who've hurt us that would be most hurt. Fuck them, they can reap the whirlwind.

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>>18585972
read this and maybe you won't ask such fucking awful questions

>>18586449
> it only takes 1 person to get an abortion as well , fuck everyone else

> it only takes 1 person to drink and drive fuck everyone else

> it only takes 1 person to commit suicide fuck everyone else

>>18586462
It still depends on who would be affected by your suicide. Maybe someone who didn't cause any harm to you.

>>18586464
I will, thanks.

>>18586462
From someone who did consider it:
Wrong. Not everyone who considers leaving hates the people around them.

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>>18586464

>>18585972
Suicide is by definition justified, but by the wrong justice system.
You claim to be the ultimate judge deciding whether you'll live or die, your decision is *the* decision.
If you come up to the conclusion that you should do it, then has to be justified.
But there's a catch.

It's your own, personal justice system, that's — face it — far from perfect.
Especially when you consider the circumstances surrounding such case — can a suicidal person really make the correct judgement?
(Suicidal as defined by: wants to die; can such a person really stay true, unbiased, honest and not let emotion influence their choice?)
I say no.


Alternatively if you're asking if it's justified based on society's justice:
(Is suicide the right course of action considering all past, current, and potentially future circumstances regarding that person's effect on society)
I say in 98% of cases it's not. Remaining 2% it really is.
That percentage is a guess in the dark though, by no means accurate.

>>18586471
>abortion
killing someone else
>drunk driving
Endangering other
>suicide
Only offing yourself without any physical harm to others

>>18586485
Let's say I am not of suicidal nature. I just want to end life when it gets tough.

>>18586486
you make the decision to do all of that tard all of which are retarded

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>>18586483(you)

>>18586485
In the eyes of morality and liberalism, is it justified?

>>18586349
The biggest fear for humans is death, overcoming that fear and putting yourself in the situation is why they have more courage, are you scared of dying?

>>18586490
Tough how?

Financially? Your death deprives others of their rightful claim to your money. Socially unjust.
Physically (health etc)? This falls under whether euthanasia is justified. The world is torn on this subject and I don't want to claim either as "the society's" way. Decide yourself.
Emotionally? Back to suicidal nature.
You become a threat to society (to the point where an unbiased court would decide it'd be better for you to be dead than to be alive)? Yes. I imagine that's one of the few cases where suicide is really justified.


>>18586526
If you invoke morality then liberalism has no say, as it is subservient to morality (your freedom ends where other's harm begins).
I think it still falls somewhere near the societal justice sentiment, where it becomes justified if more harm would come from your staying alive than from you being dead.

But then again, future is not set in stone; so is a preemptive judgement still valid? That's another big question.
>tl;dr: From a moral standpoint, if suicide were to prevent notably more harm to other people then it's justified, but even then it's a shot in the dark (you will most likely never know if it *did* prevent anything).

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>>18586526
>Morality

>>18586473
They all caused harm to you if they didn't make you feel like living.


>>18586480
I've considered doing it. I still consider doing it. Maybe you don't hate those people, I'm not talking about hate, I'm talking about valuing yourself.

>>18586526
Morally it is not justifiable
Liberally? Yes, considering a twisted definition of self liberation

>>18585972
No, your soul belongs to the government.
When you die, you waste potential taxes; not paying your taxes is a crime.

>>18585972
> if it's because you experience pain
no you are stronger for not choosing the easy way out
> if you just want to kill yourself
sure

>>18586603
Dying is harder than enduring pain. People make out that enduring pain is brave because it dignifies their own cowardice, but this is an excuse we shouldn't knowingly give ourselves. The fear of death is harder to overcome than the suffering of pain is to endure.

>>18586450
So you would be okay with a cancer patient killing them selves then?

>>18586747
> killing yourself instead of living out your days
now that is retarded

>>18585972
Anything you do can be philosophically justified. Whether or not an action is justified has to do with what philosophy you subscribe to. I lean towards existentialism, stoicism, and a bit of modern Buddhism, so naturally I think we all suffer and that suicide is a coward's way out - among