Babies

>>18570066
depends, how old are you? Having children is synonymies with wanting to give to something and better another life. I find it comes from feeling charitable. But if all you care about is yourself then you'll never want kids unless your a narcissist

>>18570076
23. My sister wanted a family at this age, my mom already had kids by now, meanwhile I cry and nearly have a mental breakdown if my period's two days late

Well it's your nature as an organism to seek to reproduce so in that sense yea you are, but whatever right? If you don't want kids don't have them.

>>18570066

I'm a 30 year old guy and my desire for a kid has done nothing but diminish over the years. But I know at least a few girls who are starting to panic about wanting kids and not having a suitable option, so there's that.

>>18570081
why do you cry? is it the fear of having children that bothers you? are you in a committed relationship? are you afraid of being abandoned?

>>18570091
I wonder if I'll change when I'm 30 then

>>18570097
I'm just terrified of being pregnant. I don't want to be pregnant. I don't want to have kids. I've been in a relationship for over 6 years now. How does being afraid of being abandoned relate to not wanting kids?

>>18570108
what about being pregnant terrifies you? is it something growing in you? Taking care of something? did something happen as a kid that made you not like pregnancy?

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>>18570066
if youre thinking from a sociopathic angle to begin with, it could just be mother nature is telling your genes they've run their course.

>>18570066
Me and my gf dont want them either, we have to hid it from both our families tho just keep stalling I suppose they'll eventually tire of asking.

>>18570121
I don't like the thought of something growing inside me and permanently changing my body. I don't like the thought of having to take care of a kid. It's hard enough keeping a relationship strong and healthy, and while kids have occasional cute moments, it's mostly annoying. I don't think anything happened when I was a kid that made me not like pregnancy

>>18570124
What do you mean by sociopathic angle?

>>18570124
he's fucking up the white race, isn't he?

>>18570066
Nope.

Your life.

Life is meaningless, or better the meaning you give.

Dont want kids? Good on ya. Theres too many anyway. Live your life.

>>18570137
well it really comes down to your perception of child care then. You don't want to have kids because the process is to "icky" for you. The only way your going to change you thought process about this is when something matter more then being uncomfortable. You can work towards that or you can just not have children.

>>18570153
Well it's both because it's icky and I don't enjoy children. I don't find them cute, except for rare moments. I don't find them endearing. I hate when other people want me to carry their baby. I hate when other people's kids misbehave because I don't know if I'm supposed to spank them or discipline them in another way. It seems like a lot of work, time, and money to give to something that doesn't feel worth it

listen ppl have kids so they will take care of them when they are old and can't do shit by theirselves
they bring an innocent being to this shitty world to suffer and be their slave.
or because the condom broke one day

>>18570168
Thats faulty logic.

Your focusing on it like its just work. But having children is about bringing a life into this world and showing them the ropes. Then when they are older and you did parenting right. They come back to you with love and companionship and gratitude.

As a women you have an ability men don't have you can CREATE LIFE. Thats some wizard shit right there. I don't need to change your mind. But know this, that how you see children is faulty. Its just an idea you've associated with children. There are many great things that can come from them. Are there hard times? of course, everything has hard times. But its very worth it. Im not trying to convince you to have children. But don't think i wont call you out on your bullshit mentality when it comes to having children. Theres a reason why some many people have children.

>>18570088
>>18570126
>>18570151
>>18570177

Thanks for the reassurance guys. My bf doesn't want kids either, so it's been working out great, but I just feel like there's something up with me for not wanting kids. So many women want to be mothers or want a family, and my mom believes/hopes my attitude about kids will change, but I just don't see that happening unless something magically switches

>>18570177
>implying the world is inherently shitty
let me guess you grew up with shitty parents.

That doesn't mean the world is inherently shit bud. That was just your experience, you have the power to make it better.

>>18570184

What's your argument when you do everything right and the kid still comes out as a piece of shit?

As a parent you can't be there 100% of the time for all of your kids to guide them through and force them to make the right decisions - it's even harder if you have more than one.

>>18570184
>bringing a life into this world and showing them the ropes
I don't want to bring a life into the world and show it the ropes.
>Then when they are older and you did parenting right
Assuming I did parenting right. There's a million and one ways to screw up a child. Everyone takes some scars and emotional damage from their childhood, and it often comes from their parents and how they were raised.

I get that other people can more easily see the rewards children have. Some like the idea of a big family. Some even think raising a baby is fun. That's just not me, not at this point

>>18570189
oh boy
>what if they still turn out shit

thats on you

Children have developing brains that cannot full understand certain complexities.

You have a fully functioning adult brain, you can make it work. Thought taking child care classes or reading some books.

>As a parent you can't be there 100% of the time for all of your kids to guide them through

Ya obviously thats why you have to make sure to keep and open dialogue open and communicate with them always.

>force them to make the right decisions

It always comes down to this. There is such a thing as peaceful parenting. Hitting children and yelling at them as been the top style of parenting since the beginning of time.

there have been scientific studies on better ways to raise children that are effective. Negotiation is one of those things.

theres this big idea out there in the world that children are evil little brats. There really just lower thinking humans with parents that were raised as little evil brats its a cycle.

If all the parents raised there kids well society would be completely different crime, rape, and theft all would be none existent. This is backed by studies.

Im not saying raising children is easy but its very doable and you can get good results if you do it right.

>>18570194
okay then don't have kids. Being negative to the positives of child care doesn't make it more true. All these if's if's if's
>what if it all goes to shit
Is that how you live your life?
no risks taken?

When you're on your death bed, will you be glad when no one is there to say bye to you because having babies is "weird and gross" and to much work. Fine be lazy. Live a comfy life with no hurdles. You reap what you sow.

>>18570228

Let me tell you a quick story. The guy is a friend, but he's a fuckup. His dad was an orthopedic surgeon, married to a beautiful and committed woman. He could provide tremendously for his family. They had a daughter first, she came out great. Kid number two, my friend, had all of the same resources and attention. They tried their absolute best. But regardless, he got introduced to drugs in junior high, and fell in with a gang. Nothing they could really do.

Now he's 31 years old and works developing film at a Walgreens, his parents are divorced over the stress of trying to get him on the straight and narrow, and his dad, the former orthopedic surgeon, lives in a small apartment, all alone.

Think he wouldn't turn back time?

>>18570239
Why do you assume that a life without children will be lazy, comfy, and without hurdles? When I'm on my deathbed, I'll have my boyfriend and relatives to say bye to, but I'm not sure why having someone to see me pass over is worth having a child

>>18570142
You tried

>>18570169
>we need meaning
Do we though?

Im 21 so i realy dont want to think about that children part yet.Also 25-30 yo women have highest possible chance of healthy offspring. Just have that in mind.

>>18570400
source? Pretty sure the having kids that age has increased risks for autism.

>>18570431
Different fag.

Nope. Sounds immediately like a crazy health myth.

Women can have babies as young as 8. Why would 21 be some magic age for autism. I think youre the one to be googling before asserting.

There is absolutely no reason to have kids. Anyone who says you're selfish for not wanting to (you see a lot of these people) is ignorant.

There is no right or wrong way to live, and there is no evolutionary requirement that you breed.

I've never wanted kids sans a short 5 month period where I got a little baby crazy a few years ago (was 28, am 31 now) and an thankful my husband and I didn't decide to go ahead and have one. We'd much rather focus on our own self betterment and lives, and children just don't factor into what we want to do.

Having kids isn't for everyone and it doesn't necessarily enrich your life either.

>>18570400
Women at that age have a 96% chance per year of having a baby. Women at 35+ have a 92% chance.

Not really a significant difference.

Did ya know all these fertility myths going around are taken from a census for 1600s french peasant women?

I happened to have learned this like last week before you think im being a know it all asshole. Its new to me too as i present it.

They even claim the chance of birth defects *doubles* if you have a baby at a later age.

Well the odds are 0.5% in the first place so doubled odds is 1%. Still pretty misleading.

But *DOUBLE CHANCE OF DEFECTS* sells magazines better than *rise from 0.5% to 1%*


Ive given enough info that someone here in this thread can guess my source... Any takers?

Parent here.

Some people love children and and very fulfilled by having kids and a family. This is fine.

Some people don't like kids or don't particularly want them. They'd rather focus on their own lives, their projects, and doing things they find fulfilling that are not related to kids. This is fine, too.

It's just people having different priorities. People whose greatest joy is their family can't understand why anyone would ever want to miss out on that, since it's so wonderful. But it's wonderful for them, and not necessarily for other people.

Same with people who hate kids. They can't fathom why anybody would find value is a large, busy, noisy family. They think it's annoying and can't grasp somebody not finding it annoying.

Both are perfectly valid. My advice as a parent is to only have kids if you want them. Don't have them out of obligation. Don't have them because someone pressures you to. If you do, you will not be happy. Being a parent can be very rewarding but it can also be very hard work. And if you don't want kids, that hard work is going to trump the reward.

It is your life, your body, your decision. If you never want kids, that is totally fine. If you do, good for you, and go ahead. Don't let anyone make you feel like it isn't your choice.

>>18570458
I know exactly where you got that info, anon. It's a good show.

>>18570076
I don't understand why not wanting kids is selfish. I hear this frequently, but I really don't understand what's selfish about it. It seems more selfish to bring kids into the world when you aren't fully involved in the process. That's not fair to the kids. It's irresponsible.

I have a ton of respect for parents who can take up that massive responsibility. It's a huge undertaking. I understand that it's fulfilling to some. But I've also seen some reluctant parents, and it's hard to hide that from your kids.

I'm with you, OP. I feel like I have a hard enough time taking care of myself, much less adding another human being into the mix. I wouldn't want to fuck up their lives. I wouldn't want to fuck up my finances. I wouldn't want to fuck up my chances at my chosen career.

Plus my family has a history of awful postpartum depression that can result in psychotic breaks. And a history of depression and ADD and alcoholism and generally struggling through living a happy life. I've made a lot of strides with coping with my own brain, but I wouldn't want to make another being go through what I did.

I don't know why people are supposed to have kids. Yeah, there are a lot of upsides to it. But if someone doesn't want kids, I wouldn't only say that they shouldn't be forced to have kids, I would say that it would be a BAD IDEA for them to have kids. I've had friends who are the product of obligation. Their parents are bitter and regretful.

There are lots of bad reasons to have kids! My mom had me and my siblings because she wanted people who were obligated to love her. She wanted to be given a reason to be worthwhile. She thought that her identity as 'mother' would fix her self esteem. She wanted a hobby and a project and a result that she could be proud of.
I do my best to be there for my mom, but it was hard to establish my individuality when she viewed me as an extension of herself.

Kids shouldn't be a simple decision.

if you don't want to have kids, don't have kids. you'll be a horrible parent.
It's that simple.

>>18570472
Knew someone would get it.

>>18570066
my wife wants kids but I dont

I was hoping our lifestyle would convince her otherwise. but she REALLY wants to see shitty fucking toys lying around with fucking brats screaming 24/7 coloring shit on the walls, taking up all of our social time.

>>18570544
Parent anon back.

While they are pretty time-consuming as infants, they don't stay infants for too long, and they grow up surprisingly quickly. And if you teach your kids good cleaning habits, then it's not that bad.

If you are in a relationship, you do have to find a way to compromise. What about adopting an older kid? You can skip the infant section and go directly to a kid you can communicate and reason with.

>>18570553
I don't know if I would recommend compromise when it involves another human's life. There are a lot of careful things that go into being an adoptive parent and showing your adoptive child that you care about them. Particularly older kids, because they are old enough to understand that these aren't their bio parents, and have likely suffered emotional trauma. Adoption is awesome, but a reluctant adoptive father sounds awful.

>>18570570
Well, the way I see it, anon and his wife are already arguing about it. Neither side wants to give in. it's not an ideal situation anyways.

If neither side will budge, and it's important to the both of them, then chances are it'll come to a head and cause major problems. So the way I see it, if they don't compromise, there's a decent chance they'll be driven apart.

>>18570618
Im Reluctant Anon

we're not arguing. She's well aware that I'm neutral about having kids, but I'm afraid to tell her that I outright do not want them anymore. I'm afraid it'll be a deal breaker for her. One of us is going to be unhappy with a choice

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The motivation to have kids doesn't come when your evolutionary instincts kick in but when your ability for moral calculus fades away. Bringing a child into existence is always wrong regardless of its expected quality of life, expected iq, etc. It is causing and perpetuating unnecessary, significant harm. The choice to have a child is always primarily self interested, it's the decision to feel good instead of do good. This is made obvious at least by how people talk about whether or not they want kids. Reproducing is ultimately just another game in life to parents like buying a house or a purebred dog. The question you should ask isn't "should I have kids? " It's "should another person be brought into existence?"
Its not a hard question, people just don't like the answer.
Adoption is still very good if you want to be a parent.
inb4 the charitable, eternal, selfless parent explaining that adoption isn't what THEY want

>>18570618
I do see where you're coming from- you're trying to find a middle ground. But in my perspective, this is not really a compromise, because the two options are have kids and don't have kids. You can't really "sort of" have kids.
I figure it's safer to not have kids. Because if they don't have kids, that would make the wife unhappy, and they could be driven apart. But if they DO have kids, that would make anon unhappy, which in turn would make the children unhappy, and they could be driven apart, which would make an even more difficult living situation for the kids.

Anon is in a difficult situation, definitely. Sometimes there's not a solution that makes everyone happy.

>>18570066
>having kids isn't worth it
>most rational people won't have kids unless the negatives won't change their life much (cost/divorce/incorrect parenting)
>the only people having kids are idiots
Eh what does the current generation care

>>18570649

What's your point here? I should have a kid to go out and get pulled down by the drowning pool of idiots so he/she can help them float a little longer?

I'll be dead in the dirt eventually and won't have an opinion on anything.

>>18570636
What's the unnecessary, significant harm? I ask in an attempt to alleviate my ignorance and not to challenge you as wrong.
There could be a perspective of doing good, since I like the kind of people that we are, and I think the world could use more people like us. It is certainly self-interested, because it hinges on the idea that we are 'better' or something. And there's always the possibility that our kid wouldn't end up like us at all. And it's not really fair to have expectations for the child to make the world a better place, since their lives are theirs to make it.

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Yeah, you know what? Don't have kids then, woman.

Children do much better with parents who have positive attitudes. From reading through yhis thread, it is apparent that your problem has less to do with being afraid of childbearing (which is a biological instinct, mind you) and more to do with you being a negative Nancy.

You can wait until your instincts go into overdrive as you come closer to menopause to shit out a kid that you don't truly want or love; while many of the women with more positive outlooks on life will have already started loving and fulfilling families by then. Your kid WILL turn out inferior to the kids from the happier families, and it will almost entirely be your fault - because of the negative atmosphere that you will be creating for him/her.

If I'm to offer any sort of constructive advice, it would be to stop being so God damn unappreciative. You claim that you don't want your potential child to 'suffer through life' as you feel you have; and yet, you have absolutely no idea how good you have it.

Encountering women like you makes me more grateful to know many more women who aren't so unnecessarily cynical and out of touch with nature.

>>18570675
Instincts are more nuanced than that. Humanity is diverse and adaptable, that's how we got to be where we are. Some people have the instinct to help the group, some people have the instinct to help themselves. There are different advantages and disadvantages to these for different scenarios, so they both survive in the population.

There are things that humans do that seem to not advance their genes- being childfree, being gay, being asexual, being socially isolated, what have you- but they do it and they're still around. We simply don't know enough about humans in order to make sweeping statements like that every woman ever will always have the instinct to bear children always.

I don't see where OP is being super negative. Some of the other femanons coming in have been more negative, but OP hasn't been that bad. Where are you seeing this?

there are a lot of women like you who do not feel the itch to reproduce until they are much older. for some of them it is too late to reproduce.

that being said, dont have kids if you really do not enjoy raising them or even being around them. children can sense when their parents see them as a burden and it is soul crushing.

>>18570639
That's a valid point. Honestly I think it depends on the relationship, the kid, and how strongly everyone feels about their opinions.
Not disagreeing, it's just one of those things where you have to guess at the outcome and make the best decision you can in the moment.

>>18570626
of course its a deal breaker. Either give her a child or divorce. Because this women will die never having the one thing they wanted, a child. All you do by waiting is letting her eggs waste away. do the right thing.

>>18570760
You're right. There's probably some situations where it would be a safer choice to have the kid. I appreciate hearing your perspective.

I'm 30. Don't want kids. Considering the snip. If I change my mind at any point, I'll adopt.

I have no interest in impregnating a woman and putting her through that process. Awful

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I only give a shit about myself. I hate kids - they want and need everything and I don't want to give them shit they haven't earned. I would never have a shitty, loud brat that I have to give things to for eighteen years.
As you can see, I'd be a shitty father - that's why I don't want kids. It's fine if you don't want them. Don't have kids if you aren't going to take care of them properly. Don't have kids just because you feel you need to have them.

>>18570228
>that's on you
lol no it's literally not.

It's a mix of parenting and mental development, which, by the way, isn't in the control of the parents.

If you have a kid with chemical imbalances good fucking luck trying to raise him right.

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>>18570066
Here yeah go OP my bonafide "should I have a baby" litmus test.

>I am so worried about having kids because I'm going to fuck their life up

>I am so worried about having kids because they're going to fuck my life up

If you picked the first, congrats! You're more worried about the kid, so should make a good parent.

If you picked the second, don't have kids! You can't properly prioritize them, so live a happy life without!

>>18570066
>child bearing instincts

Do ever ever want to have sex? Thats your child bearing instincts.

The biological clock is a social construct. People just panicking that they have to have kids now or never and they feel they have to make a decision even though they dont fully want to.

Thats not an instinct. Thats anxiety and/or indecisiveness

>>18572900
Sorry.. Forgot the point...

You already have child bearing instincts kicking in as long as you have a sex drive.

If you are firm in your decision you dont want kids, not likely some increased desire is going to strike you later unless you legit change your mind fully.

>>18571817
So I'm guessing discipline was never a thing where you come from?

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>tfw autistic INTP
>logic and autism curb stomp the shit out of retard ape "instincts"

it's a convenient excuse to let depression overpower any motivation I would have to actually live my life but at least I'm not suffering

>>18572870
>>I am so worried about having kids because I'm going to fuck their life up
>>I am so worried about having kids because they're going to fuck my life up

But both are true in almost every case, parentfags just deny it 99% of the time and the others literally kill or abandon their children with little to no middle ground, despite most parents treating their children like advanced pets that only need to be fed, clothed, medicated and shipped off to their indoctrination centers.

>>18572925
Yeah it's about picking which one worries you more. Figuring out your priorities. Who do you put first, yourself or your kids.
People sitting there making a well thought out choice can at least consider this beforehand.