Feel like I have to be the seduced rather than the seducer

>>18531766
Op sory to be the bearer of bad news, but unless the girl previously likes you for something other than your personality (like being a musician or famous) the man is going to be the one doing most of the grunt work attracting and seducing the girl. Its just how it is, if you were a girl and went to the club and sit down you'd get aproached all night. If you do the same as a guy, probably no one will come talk to you.

>>18531766
>I start to feel guilty about using the power of my will to make someone act in a way that I want them to

That's not seducing. Seducing is convincing them that you are fun, cool and sexy. What they do with that information is up to them.

You are not making anyone do anything unless you jump into rapist territory.

>>18531791
Yes that's been my experience too for the most part (not entirely, I've had a few experiences a bit like this, but they never led to anything). I don't know what I should do though - I'm still very attracted to women, but don't meet any who have the right sort of personality. Do I just learn to be the one who makes all the moves, even though it doesn't turn me on? It's a difficult one.

>>18531828
Yep.

>>18531825
But all seduction is manipulation to a certain extent, because you want something from the other person (e.g. sex, a loving relationship) and you act in a particular way to achieve that aim. I can learn to act in the sort of assertive way that is attractive to most women (either through trial and error like most people or through pick-up artist sites like autists), and keep trying until I get what I want (sex, relationship). I acknowledge it's not really rational to think like this, because this is the way all relationships must work and that's how I want a girl to treat me, but I think that's the reality nonetheless.

>>18531844
Feel free to keep thinking like that but it'll get u nowhere. See reality as it is and not how you'd like it to be. The price of doing otherwise is banging your head against a painful wall

>>18531844
>But all seduction is manipulation to a certain extent

No, seduction is communication. If you think you are worth a damn and share it, then the other person can decide if you are worth a damn and date/make out/suck you off in the bathroom.

You seem to believe "seduction" is the same as "lying". It can be, but it can also not be. Seduction is communication, and like with any form of communication, some people are not honest. But some people are.

Why are norwegian girls so great?

>>18531953
What's weird is that their men are not that good looking. It's just their women that are incredible looking. I have no idea why.

>>18531953
>>18531990
Wasn't it Bill Burr who said that he could understand Hitler on some level, after having a gig in Norway? The women were just THAT good looking.