narcissism + low self esteem

>>18410759
>tfw too smart to give you advice OP

>>18410759
Age, gender, job, family status, why do you behave like jerk to everybody, long term life goals and how are you planning to obtain them?

>>18410780
>Age
19
>gender
f
>job
web dev who lost her job, looking into working in a gym or something now
>family status
immigrants from eastern europe, only have parents in this country, live with them. get along pretty well other than them being disappointed in me and me clashing a ton with my dad (probably because we're so similar). we'll go from screaming at each other to being happy family in a few hours. dad moved countries when I was 2-5 years old so only saw him rarely until we moved to join him.
>why do you behave like jerk to everybody
I wish I knew. I remember having anger issues as a kid, i would beat up my dolls so much my parents had to hide them. in fact i would hate presents people gave me for no apparent reason, like a book my aunty gave me. I used to shout at my grandma to leave my room as a kid when she came to take care of me. I don't know why I reacted like this. It hurts me to write, i want to die it hurts me so much how rude i was to innocent people.
> long term life goals
to not be miserable. i don't want to be rich like i did before, I just want to not hate my job or my life. I want to actually get along with people and feel like I deserve the relationships I have. in terms of career, I don't know, something in languages or fitness.
>how are you planning to obtain them?
Well I've started by trying to be nicer to people and actually see my friends. Asking for help here I guess is a start. For my career, planning on doing a PT course.

I'm not a psychologist, but I think a lot of narcacist use that as a means to compensate for their low self esteem. So to answer your question my opinion is yes.

>>18410814
To be honest you dont sound like femanon who has super problem.

You probably finaly started developing empathy (kids and teens dont have this) and you simply realized how shit kid you were.

As i see it, go and apologize to anybody you behaved like jerk in the past and try your best to be honest person from now on.

Good luck?

>>18410827
I am in fact a psychologist and yes, this post is pretty accurate.

>>18410832
>You probably finaly started developing empathy (kids and teens dont have this)
But others around me seemed to. My cousin also went through those typical teen phases but kept her kindness and was never a piece of utter shit like me.

>go and apologize to anybody you behaved like jerk in the past and try your best to be honest person from now on.
I'll try my best, just worried it's not enough to undo all the shittyness of my past

>>18410827
>>18410856
Makes sense. But how do i raise my self-esteem without making my narcissism worse? I feel like by bad self esteem is the only thing that keeps me somewhat human.

>>18410877
>never was a piece of shit
Femanon please, chill out. I have seen a lot of narcistic posters here, and you arent one. Why? Because true narcistic will never even think for a second that the problem is him. Their posts are like
>why is everybody annoyibg and telling me i am piece of shit when it is them?

You are within tolerance. Just the sole fact you feel bad for your past deeds is enough. Really. Apologize to them, hug them, offer making favor for them whatever. You are good person.

We all do mistakes. If you are confident to not behave like asshole anymore, you are good to go.

>>18410894
Thanks anon, I hope you're right. I am trying to be a good person.

Unfortunately my parents don't agree with my career choice therefore are sad or angry with me a lot of the time, which makes me feel bad for making them feel that way, but I can't pick a career wrong for me just to make them happy right?

>>18410922
Well, you will be going to some job for 40+ years. It is better to pick something you like.

On the other hand, it is understandable if your parents are worried about you, because that is what good parents do: they care.

>>18410759
yeah , it's called being a cunt, and as we all know, there's no cure for that

>>18410928
Yeah it's understandable, but I wish they could see other perspectives than the very rigid ones of communist Eastern Europe where if you weren't a doctor/lawyer/teacher you'd starve

>>18410759
>Is it possible to have extremely low self esteem yet be a narcissist at the same time?
>I am

I think you just answered yourself, OP
This is a matter of introspection. What do you think is the cause of your hate towards others?

>>18411081
>What do you think is the cause of your hate towards others?
I wish I knew, maybe then i'd be able to fix the root of the problem

>>18411145
Yup, that's the idea. How you treat others and how you treat yourself tend to be very related

Maybe you're projecting your hate for yourself onto other people?

>>18411193
Interesting point. Where would my hate for myself come from though... I mostly hate myself because I'm mean to people. It's just a vicious cycle I guess

>>18411226
It's a possibility. You are mean to people, which leads to you feeling guilty about being bad to them and thus dislike yourself more because of it and thus are in a worse disposition that makes you meaner and all that

And thus a cycle is formed. But even a circle has a beginning somewhere, and finding it is the key
You say being mean came first, right?

>>18411263
Yes I think. I've always been moody. I remember being 3 and being miserable for no reason. Then having anger issues. Ultimately that led to hating myself when I figured out how shit I was

Now being kind makes me feel guilty because I feel like I'm faking it just to get a positive reaction

>>18411305
Are you past those anger issues now? Do you consider yourself a stable individual?

I can understand why would you feel that way. After feeling you've done so much wrong, being nice is out of character for you, and thus "fake"

But that doesn't have to be the case. I think that, while you would do it at first, to feel better about yourself, you would become progressively more and more used to it, and end up doing it naturally when enough time passes

>>18411325
Don't think I'm past those anger issues. I still get angry and sad easily, but I can control myself now. I won't take it out on anyone anymore. Things annoy me really easily. I'm not stable, I have bad anxiety and depression and I'm worried about my future, but I'm still coping some way. I always feel on the edge of a panic attack

I sometimes feel like I should move away and change my name and have a fresh start.

If someone's been rude to a person before but starts to be kind and more talkative, do you think that person would forgive them or still view them as a rude, asocial individual?

>>18411335
It's good that you can control yourself now, but it certainly sounds like you're kind of, on edge. Granted, I'm not the best suited to speak, but maybe it would benefit you to go to therapy? Have you considered it?

>If someone's been rude to a person before but starts to be kind and more talkative, do you think that person would forgive them or still view them as a rude, asocial individual?
That obviously depends on the individual.

There's the possibility that, since that person was bad to you, that the niceness feels out of place and suspicious. It would not be strange for them to be a bit wary. Things don't happen in a vacuum, after all. But that stigma goes away

>>18411356
I've done 2 rounds of CBT for anxiety. Actually remembering that made me realize why I might clash with my dad so much, he's always called me a liar that I have anxiety. It would really help if my parents were either nice or mean to me, but the mixture of emotional abuse with typical happy-family situations makes it confusing, and even worse than if they were just abusive.

Thanks for the help so far anon

>>18411385
>he's always called me a liar that I have anxiety
I'm not sure I get this part, are you saying that he thinks your anxiety is faked?

You think it would help you to have them be good or bad, but not in between. Is that because you feel it makes it easier to categorize them as one thing or another, or is it, on the other hand, that that lets you set expectations instead of being caught with your guard down?

Since you say you clash with your dad, is your relationship with your mother better? Could you maybe talk about this with her?

I'm glad we hit something important. I'm happy to help, even if only a bit

>>18411418
>I'm not sure I get this part, are you saying that he thinks your anxiety is faked?
Yeah he thinks I did it for attention and to stop going to school (I had to go to one of those special schools for people who dropped out of HS for whatever reason, I went back to normal school later though).

>Is that because you feel it makes it easier to categorize them as one thing or another, or is it, on the other hand, that that lets you set expectations instead of being caught with your guard down?
Both actually. Probably the first one more. It'd be easier to either love or hate them, I don't like having my emotions confused by being hugged one day and told I'm a disgusting disappointment the next as soon as I open the door.


>Since you say you clash with your dad, is your relationship with your mother better? Could you maybe talk about this with her?
It's better definitely, but she agrees with him on everything and he's that typical traditional father than has the last word and decision so no one goes too far against him. I'm the kid so I'm in the wrong no matter what, it's just the culture.

>>18411433
That certainly sounds like a bad situation, I can't really think about much that can be done then. I'd still say that it might be worth a try to get your mother on your side, even if just to get advice on how to handle things

It must be a difficult situation to be in, how long has it been going for? Could it be what caused you to be moody and have anger issues, being thus, the beginning, or was your anxiety the trigger?

Have you any source of comfort outside of your parents? Friends? Close relatives?

Maybe you being mean to people is a way to cope with what happens within your family, or you copying what you saw, not knowing any better

>>18411449
>That certainly sounds like a bad situation, I can't really think about much that can be done then. I'd still say that it might be worth a try to get your mother on your side, even if just to get advice on how to handle things
I don't want to place blame on my parents though. There's no getting anyone on my side, the advice is always "you've always been an outsider and tried to do things your way" and to be like other people

>It must be a difficult situation to be in, how long has it been going for? Could it be what caused you to be moody and have anger issues, being thus, the beginning, or was your anxiety the trigger?
All my life I think. I remember always being told I was mean, a social recluse and being shouted at for small reasons. I've always been told not to move a lot because it's noisy and that I should always be "tracked". This means I cant move in my bed because it makes noise and wakes them up. I learned to walk on my toes everywhere
But my anxiety definitely made it worse because it gave another reason why I'm a failure.

>Have you any source of comfort outside of your parents? Friends? Close relatives?
All relatives are back in my home country. No close friends, all moved away, and I changed schools right in the middle of making friends then never made long lasting ones as everyone had established friendship groups already.

>Maybe you being mean to people is a way to cope with what happens within your family, or you copying what you saw, not knowing any better
Maybe, feels kinda greasy (if that makes sense lol) to put it all on my family.

I feel like I'm in a very negative atmosphere right now, but with a lack of money I can't move out (I live in an extremely expensive city)

>>18411477
I understand not wanting to put blame on your parents. After all harbouring negative feelings towards people is rarely a good thing to do, but I'd still say it's important. Not so much the placing blame part, but looking for the root of the problem, in an attempt to understand what is happening and setting it right. Sadly, if it's actually your family, not much can be changed

One thing is clear, though. It's a destructive environment. With your parents treating you in such a way, calling you an outsider, as if you weren't one of them

You need to find a positive environment as soon as possible
Do you have any hobbies? Anything you like doing?

>>18411550
I like the gym (hence why I'm trying to find a career in that field) so I go as often as possible, as a way to be out of the house too. I also like learning languages but I have to do that secretly because according to them it's a waste of time

Maybe I can share a flat with a bunch of other people since I can't cover the rent to live by myself (even a 1 bedroom tiny apartment here is above what minimum wage can cover). But I don't know anyone well enough to live with them.

>>18411569
I see. I was asking because you might be able to use your hobbies to meet new people.

For example, I like acting, so I joined a drama group and I met a lot of people because of it. It was very helpful because I wasn't particularly fond of my peers back in high school
You might be able to do something similar

Excercising is a very good hobby to have, though, good going. Keeps you healthy and on the move
Do you feel satisfied when doing your hobbies? Or are your problems too much to avoid?

The fact that the city is so expensive is quite a hassle, but if you see you could get out of your situation (and not fall into a worse one, of course), I'd say it's worth checking

>>18411598
>Do you feel satisfied when doing your hobbies?
I used to, now i can't stop thinking about my problems and dreading the moment I have to get home. I've take to waking up at 4am to be alone then going to sleep when everyone wakes up and I'm sure that's not healthy lol

It seems like my decision is between moving out and not having a single extra penny, and staying at home and being able to save up (I want to invest in real estate eventually). But the situation is so bad at home I might just move out anyway, most days I just want to keel over and die

>>18411644
I'm afraid I can't tell you much more. I'd say that the thing would be to find a "place" that helps you handle your situation until you make the choice on whether you're ready to move out or not yet, and go through with it.

How do you feel now about people?

>>18411766
Alright, thanks anon, you've helped me a lot so far.

I like meeting people but my anxiety is bad so it's difficult to open up

>>18410759
Are you sure what you're experiencing is narcissism? I do something similar to what you do but I would call the emotion I feel contempt. Like "because I'm a piece of shit I shouldn't be beating you at anything" or "you have so much potential yet you still suck."

>>18411811
Contempt towards yourself? Yeah I feel that definitely.
I called it narcissism because i'm obsessed with how i look and comparing myself to others (even though i hate myself).

>>18411803
That's understandable, but it's a very good thing that you like meeting with people as keeping sociable will help you to not always be thinking about your problems. And you may be able to befriend people that can brighten up your days

I am not the biggest fan of people myself, but you do need to have someone or someones you can fall back on

In the end it boils down to finding a way to hang in there until you're finally free, but being social is a good thing to be too

You sound like a pretty decent anon, so it's a shame you had such a bad upbringing, but don't let that be all there is to you

>>18411861
I feel like I get/have had so little social contact that when I do, I'm almost too talkative. Like my body's like "here's my chance, just unload" lol

thanks for your reply anon

>>18411859
What I'm saying is, my own self worth isn't changing when I judge people. I think I am terrible, so when they perform worse than me at something I consider them worse than terrible. At no point does the thought "i'm great" enter my head. Instead the negativity from my own self loathing gets heaped onto their minor defect that shouldn't otherwise bother me.

In my case it's not narcissism, it's contempt for other people stemming from an inability to take pride in my accomplishments. I'm suggesting that might be what you are doing too.

>>18411877
Yep, I get what you mean.
You have to make it count, huh?
That will work itself out the more you socialize. But I understand that you might find that you're too pushy or that you overwhelm people
I can't really tell you much there, but socializing is good, and you'll get better at it the more you do it, like everything else

And thank you for taking the time to read and talk about all of this. I know it's not always a comfortable experience to have to open yourself up to others

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>>18411888
Oooh I understand. I don't think that's my case. I've never caught myself thinking that someone's terrible because they're worse than the shit I am. I just feel pleasure in how bad they are at something compared to me, then feel guilty for feeling that.

>>18411902
Yeah I'm worried when I finally get a bf I'll end up being too clingy for this reason. It'll feel so good to be true i won't even know how to manage it

Thank you for listening anon, 4chan is actually nice today

>>18411917
I don't want to overstay my welcome, but I forgot to touch on that, and it sounded interesting
How is it that you feel pleasure at others' failures? Do you actually feel good about it or is more along the lines of "I feel cooler than them" so to speak?

And, I'd say that if you have to worry about being too clingy with your bf, things are improving
But I can't help you there, I'm a bit of a clingy fuck myself

i herd that it's possible to have extremely low self esteem yet be a narcissist at the same time

>>18412016
It's more of a "haha look at you fail I'm better than you" type thing than enjoying their pain. Whatever I feel it's always a comparison with me

yes. low self esteem is one of the hallmarks of narcissism. self-awareness is not however so hey good news there

>>18410759

Ignore what the other idiots have probably said (I'm not reading the thread since these people are unlikely to also be licensed psychotherapists) the answer is simply yes.

If you have any knowledge of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (an you aren't a rabid chimp holding the DSM) then you know that NPD often manifests as a highly "ego broken" individual seeking external validation (oftentimes extremely dramatized, disproportionate, and outright false praise) from codependent enablers.

Without someone buttressing the NPD's ego they crumble under the weight of their inner critic.

learn to have empathy for people, narcissistic people tend to not be able to feel what other people feel. If you can feel what other people feel then it'll help you be more considerate of others and make you less of a narcissist.

>>18412046
>Whatever I feel it's always a comparison with me
That you always compare yourself to your surroundings, right?
I can understand that. It's not that bad
Feeling a bit superior from time to time never hurt anyone

And with that, I think I'm pretty much done here.
Take care of yourself, and I hope you manage to better your situation and feel better about yourself. It's been nice talking to you

>>18410877

Genuine self-esteem is not narcissism.

Being able to objectively look at your situation and understand that you did something well is different from the false belief that you are inherently better than someone else.

Healthy (non-narcissistic) people view others as humans with equal worth and diverse abilities. They recognize and accept their own shortcomings and acknowledge their own strengths in a realistic fashion.

e.g. while running a race

npd winning:
I ran faster than everyone, I'm an advanced athlete, why did these losers bother competing?

npd losing:
I am worthless. I'll never be a renowned athlete now. I knew I never should have tried at this race. This institution is a joke. The track wasn't shaped for optimum sprinting. I'm an idiot for wasting my time with these lowly marathons. I could be running with the pros.

Healthy individual winning:
I won the race, I am proud of my athletic abilities. All of my hard work training really paid off!

Healthy individual losing:
I am disappointed that I didn't win the race this time. Maybe next time I won't skip as many training sessions if I seriously want to place in the top 3.

>>18412051
That's scary to read. I feel like I'm charging on people's compliments if I ever get any. Maybe it's because I looked like sin when I was young so now it's a bit better I can't get enough of it

>>18412057
Yeah I've started doing that. It's been a bit better since I made the realization that every person is as complex and has a unique life with different hobbies and problems as I do. Before I kind of viewed people as objects, kind of like the world revolved around me

>>18412072
Thanks for your help here anon, I appreciate it

alrighty just finished reading through it all. the comparing yourself to everyone around you is going to be a hard habit to break until you stop feeling so much like you "need" to do it. so make it work /for/ you rather than against you and that'll be killing two birds with one stone. what i mean specifically: when you notice something about somebody else, be happy for them. this will get your focus off yourself and it will also get you used to fostering goodwill towards other people without it feeling faked somehow. it'll form into good habits that'll go a long way in helping you with the other things you're struggling with.

>>18412108
Good tip anon, will start trying it out. Thanks!