Recent Grad, Recent NEET

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OK, so, I just graduated with my masters degree from a small university near my home in an east-coast state. It’s a masters in theology (MDiv), essentially it’s the same degree that priests/pastors get when they want to serve a church. Here’s the thing, I’ve never been a member of a church in my entire adult life (I’m 29 btw). I got the degree thinking that applying for a job leading a church was a lot like applying for a job in software or at a business -- if you have the skills and education, then you would be considered. Not the case. The process for becoming a church priest/pastor involves you going to church as a layperson for several years while you “form bonds” at your local church level, with the leader there, and then they recommend you for the next steps towards leadership. Every local church I’ve been to is filled with old ladies, practically dying, and theologically very conservative. They really aren’t my cup of tea, and I don’t want to commute a long distance from my home just to go to church every Sunday and Wednesday (a usual day for Bible Study). Plus there’s no guarantee they’ll want to recommend me for what’s called “ordination,” that’s the process to becoming a paid Christian church leader.

>TLDNR: I’m a 29 year old recent masters graduate with a degree that's in being a priest when i don’t go to church

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So basically I feel like I have a pretty useless degree. I started it because I liked religions rituals, different cultures, the mythology, the philosophy of faith (essentially theology -- the study of God) and I wanted to HELP people. I come from an upper-middle class family and I wanted to give back to the universe for all the blessings I’ve had. But when I started my degree many of the classes were not based in history, philosophy, facts and study. Instead I ended up writing about my “feelings” a lot. You know, how has God touched you, do something creative with this paper, talk about your personal experience in this class as opposed to a critical analysis of your reading or lecture. Etc. etc. And frankly there was a lot of “Well all this book learnin’ ain’t helpful cause in mah church we do this and that… Now you might wanna talk about what it says in yo book BUT I JUST FEEL THAT (and at that point I wanna snap and throw some people against the wall).” So yeah, all of my graduate education has been pretty meh, and low information. Mostly just writing papers, but I try to keep them on point and academically sound. However, at a certain point they actually told me it would lower my grade if I didn’t get all mushy and personal. Well, so much for serious theological studies :( but I came out better informed than when I went in, so you could call that a net gain.

>TLDNR: I feel like my degree is pretty useless, it certainly didn't lead me smoothly into a career. It’s a theology degree so even though I liked a lot of what I studied, there were parts that were objectively useless and low information. I chose the degree because I wanted to help people and learn about philosophy and cultures and stuff.

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So now, finally, to the problem. I’ve graduated, I’m officially a NEET. At 29. Living with my parents. I really don’t have many, if any, skills or experience. I’ve never held a job, even part-time, I’ve always been in school. At 23 I graduated college, spent about three years abroad teaching english and trying to “find myself,” then went into graduate school to become a priest (like I said, without ever really going to church). So now at 29, I’m without any other experience in my life other than volunteer work and school.

>TLDNR: So now that I’ve graduated I’m an old NEET with no paid work experience. Just a degree and three years of international volunteering from over six years ago.

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I’m not really super passionate about one specific thing, I haven’t found my “life’s calling” or whatever you call it. I really liked teaching English overseas, they fed me/housed me and gave me a little pocket money in exchange for teaching. It’s not a career -- with a pension or insurance, but I enjoyed myself. I still think it would be rewarding to do stuff like hospital/prison chaplaincy. At the end of the day all I really want is to be happy. I also liked school. I’m not too crazy about 4-5 years getting my Ph.D. but there are other programs that deal with my interests and probably won’t be boring and awkward “share your feelings” shit. Apparently the University of Indiana has a Ph.D. in Folklore and Mythology connected to their English department, that sounds cool. I still like studying! Even though it’s not Engineering or Actuarial Math, the preferred 4chan disciplines, (and I SUCK at math) I like studying the Humanities. Plus I’d like to get some sort of degree beyond my Masters for the prestige of it.

>TLDNR: I don’t have just one interest, I have a few: getting a PhD (or similar degree) in a humanities discipline, teaching (in the us and abroad), seeing more of the world and helping people as a chaplain.

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My shittyness at Math is a big reason why I’m terrified of becoming an American schoolteacher. They test you on it in order to become a teacher, and it’s not simple math either. Even if you just want to teach at the Elementary (Primary) school level, young kids, you need to know how to solve complex (complex for me) word problems that require you to memorize formulas and shit that my brain just doesn’t seem to want to make room for. I barely passed my remedial college math requirement -- barely (D), and that was with having a tutor help me with homework/tests.

>TLDNR: Teaching in an american public school is a tough gig, and even when you pass the requirements there’s still a lot of red-tape.

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I don’t know what to do with my life anons. A big part of my identity as a full time student is at a close. The way I see it there are a few options.

1. Get on a plane and go abroad again and teach for as long as I can till I figure out a more sustainable plan
2. Try REALLY hard (and probably fail several times) to become a teacher in an American school
3. Enroll in a 4-5 year PhD program and work a regular menial job to pay bills and rent and such.
Some combination of the above?

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That’s essentially it anons. I’m sure you need more information to give me advice, so just ask but I tried to cover the basics.

I’m a NEET and it scares the shit out of me, right now I’m writing this in bed. It’s noon and I just woke up an hour ago maybe. Living with my parents is a huge embarrassment and a drain on my self esteem. I NEED TO DO SOMETHING!

But this bed is so warm, and I don’t have to worry about food (and I’m getting really fat, I was healthy at 150 lbs, now I’m pushing 210.)

I’m petrified about the future, and scared of striking out on my own. I’m also kind of spoiled because I’ll think of a million excuses to NOT act, NOT move forward, and weasel my way into the easiest way out.

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>>18342618

>>18342366
>>18342372
>>18342386
You done fucked getting a Masters that requires connections without having them. Was your Bachelor's in something you could springboard off of?

>>18342393
The volunteer place(s) don't have anything? You could always volunteer at a place you think is likely to turn into work.

>>18342400
Prestige is overrated. Happiness is far more important than being able to force disinterested young adults to call you doctor. Focus on happiness if that's your goal regardless of how your perceived. If you make enough of a difference, people will come to respect you anyway.

>>18342405
>>18342414
Does the abroad teaching pay? Does it pay well? If so and you like it I don't see the problem with just doing that. Also, I find just putting a solid effort into job searching is a good but temporary relief from the self-esteem loss.

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>>18342822
>You done fucked getting a Masters that requires connections without having them. Was your Bachelor's in something you could springboard off of?
nope: BA in religious studies. yeah, hindsight is 20/20 but i probably should have picked schooling options that had clear pathways to a career. couldn't help it, i felt compelled to study what i did, and by the time i realized i might not be able to get a job, it was too late.

>The volunteer place(s) don't have anything? You could always volunteer at a place you think is likely to turn into work.

i volunteered overseas. they sort of liked it when i only took up one of their extra bedrooms and they only had to feed me 3 times a day, even getting them to give me pocket money was a stretch. but it could turn into a career at some point. english teachers are in demand in the developing world. going overseas at least until i can formulate a long term plan will help me search for a job, look for research avenues in Ph.D. studies, and get me physically active and out again.

i just get nervous about it because i need to figure out a long term strategy that gets me to retirement on a boat or in a cabin innawoods. im not sure i'll be able to do that teaching english in 3rd world countries.

>Prestige is overrated. Happiness is far more important than being able to force disinterested young adults to call you doctor. Focus on happiness if that's your goal regardless of how your perceived. If you make enough of a difference, people will come to respect you anyway.

i think the phd is part of the happiness. there's a whole bunch of reasons i want one, principally because my parents have theirs, i want to say ive finished my schooling at the top level of study, i want to produce some genuine work of scholastic interest, and i do want people to approach me with a certain defacto respect...not just young adults either, everybody.

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>>18342822

>Does the abroad teaching pay? Does it pay well? If so and you like it I don't see the problem with just doing that. Also, I find just putting a solid effort into job searching is a good but temporary relief from the self-esteem loss.

as i said, it doesn't really pay, and even if it did it certainly wouldn't be any bankable amount, nothing to squirrel away for retirement

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>>18342947
>>18343044

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>>18343096

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>>18343044
>>18342947
>>18343096

>>18342372
>masters in theology
Oh for fuck's sakes.

>>18342393
Sounds a lot like me. I graduated college at 23, couldn't find a job, ruminated teaching English overseas and gave up, stayed at home for a few more years, then went to law school at 27. I'm still sort of NEETing but handling family legal matters.

Actually maybe you can help me a little OP. Can you give me a quick rundown on exegesis vs. eisegesis, particularly as how it might be relevant in interpreting the constitution or statutes? One of my criminal law profs used to go on about that and I really didn't pay close enough attention (tfw catholic law school)

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>>18343212
>>18343212
>>masters in theology
>Oh for fuck's sakes.

yeah i know

>exegesis vs. eisegesis
exegesis is translating the literal meaning of a text, eisegesis is interpreting a text in light of experience or with a particular goal in mind. so for the constitution i guess it's the debate between what the founders actually meant at the time it was written (exegesis) and how we interpret it in light of modernity (eisegesis)

canon law is fun!

Have you ever considered becoming a monk?

Isn't there a career path where you could go priest overseas? Like combining your English instruction experience with your religious shit?

Oh also another option, if you're into South America, might be working with SIL International (formerly Summer Institute of Linguistics). They go out and document dying foreign languages; doesn't sound religious, but the purpose is usually to form a basis for missionaries to make contact and interact with them.

>>18343385
>canon law is fun!
I wish I'd taken that, actually. It was offered. My "fun" course was medieval English legal history. I learned more about advowsons and parsonage than I ever needed to learn.

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>>18343212
so did you think i'll be alright if i go back overseas, spend a little more time in school before i hit "career mode" and start really knuckling down.
honestly the end game of a cabin in the woods or a boat takes 200,000. that should take me a relatively short time to save up if i live a meager existence and make at least 50k a year

maybe that's thinking too far ahead tho, honestly i just want to get out of my parents hair, assure them (and myself) that im moving forward... and enjoy life.

>>18343406
all the fucking time.
>>18343426
perhaps, i'd have to do some more research, and i think a large part of it will be going over there first, i have guaranteed lodging and food in two countries, from friends and people i volunteered with

>>18343433
>needed to learn
but that wasnt the reason you did it right? it was fun, see there's a lot of logic in getting degrees and taking courses in the practical stuff, but sometimes your heart just tells you to do medieval legal history or psychology and religion

>>18343443
>honestly the end game of a cabin in the woods or a boat takes 200,000.

I think you could do innawoods in Montana for FAR less than $200k. Especially if you build it yourself (and it's not fucking hard).

Anyway, yeah, it's fine to do the overseas thing again. Sometimes it's more important to keep moving than to make the perfect move.

>>18343460
Hah. My interest was more in common law pleading and a few very specialized writs. That said, litigation over parsonage was a massive English legal tradition that hugely influenced real estate law more generally (because the right to nominate the parish parson was considered a form of real estate... sounds crazy, doesn't it?)

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>>18343466
>Sometimes it's more important to keep moving than to make the perfect move.
thanks, i needed to hear that

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>>18343466
hmmm, how far less? it's pretty much the dream, i mean i can grow my non-meat food on less than an acre for just myself, hunt for meat, read, write, enjoy life.

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>>18343472
dude all of that is way over my head
nominating a parson used to be a real estate move? or making parsonages?

>>18343488
Found a 20 acre property with some utilities for $78k in Montana after about a minute's searching, and I only looked on Craigslist. I'm sure there are ways to find smaller properties in the middle of nowhere for a pittance.

I would've thought that to most people, without you having explained in detail the weird and questionable academic content of your degree, it looks like you just "did a humanities degree." You don't need to carry that weight around and try and shape it into a fitting career, especially as it seems like you really didn't agree with a lot of it.

Have you thought about trying to work for a charity or a nonprofit? You seem to have an inclination towards wanting to help others.
There's usually a pretty wide range of positions they might need, either office monkey work or more active campaign stuff. I imagine they'd probably look fondly on someone with that kind of background. I know that's not really a foolproof career trajectory, but I'd say it's more important that you do *something* or you'll go crazy with option paralysis and will have achieved nothing.

>>18343501
Okay so the way it worked was a manor lord had the right to build a parish church. Prior to the thirteenth century, he actually got a percentage of the tithes, but of course the church ended that practice. Even after that, he retained the right to "nominate" the parson of the parish, subject to the approval of the bishop (who basically rubber-stamped the nominee). This was valuable because the parson had the ability to influence morality and social order within the parish, and moreover, having an "in" with the parish gave you a place to send your useless sons; the parson could let them be lay priests if they were smart, or would just make them caretakers.

Anyway, the right to make this nomination was something that was part of the "bundle" of rights that came with owning your manor, and as a consequence the legal rules for its transfer were ones that applied to the transfer of land rather than the transfer of moveable goods.

Here's a concrete example: All title to land ultimately flows from the crown. At some point in history, the king made land grants to feudal lords. These were very large, usually regional grants that were too large for these lords to efficiently administer themselves. As a result, they would grant portions of their fief to their underlings, children, etc. This would continue down through the ranks of nobility until you got to the local lord.

The local lord's manor rights consisted of basically everything to do with the land he owned. He could grow what he wanted, carve it up and sell it as he wanted, build a parish church and nominate a parson, etc. What he would usually do is carve it up and lease small parcels to farmers or merchants to use in exchange for rents, but of course that lease didn't include the right to nominate a parson. He retained that right for himself.

(continued)

So what happens if the manor lord dies without legitimate children? The seigneurial rights typically went back to the family that granted him the estate. The problem with this is, usually, a few generations have passed, and it's possible the family that originally made the grant has long died off, or there was a will at some point... it gets really fucking complex in those days, and you need to figure out which rights go to whom.

Well, this might not be a big deal for awhile; the guy occupying the manor continues to operate it as though it's his even though there's some question as to his title, and the person with the competing claim just stews off in some other area.

And then the parson dies. The guy in possession of the right to nominate his replacement has something like a year to do it or the bishop will make the choice for him. Then what'll happen is BOTH people competing for title to the manor will nominate a replacement. The ecclesiastical law procedure when receiving nominations from different people is to notify both that the nomination has been impeded, and the bishop will act as though no nomination has been made. And because it's a real estate problem, the ecclesiastical courts wouldn't touch it: It was an issue to be decided by a writ proceeding in the law courts. And it had to be decided within a year of the parson's death or the bishop would appoint whomever he wanted.

These disputes were hotly contested back in the day because, at least back then, it was seen as a right to control the beliefs and morals of the peasantry of a manor, and the parson would obviously favor his patron. It was a big deal not to be the person to appoint the parson.

This practice is mostly dead. In the 19th somewhat into the 20th centuries, the church undertook a large campaign to get the people who still had these rights to donate them to the church, and from what I've read almost all of them have been donated.

>>18343555
shit if i found out i had some ancient right to be a church parson i wouldnt give that shit up, instant stability

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>>18343515
>Have you thought about trying to work for a charity or a nonprofit? You seem to have an inclination towards wanting to help others.
>There's usually a pretty wide range of positions they might need, either office monkey work or more active campaign stuff
how do i get experience with this...paid experience? do i have to "intern"? that would mean getting a paid "menial" job, interning, and abandoning a phd, because i dunno if theres enough hours in the day

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>>18343185
>>18343103
>>18343096
>>18343044
>>18342947

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>>18343750

You talked about teaching K-12, but have you thought about teaching University? You have a masters degree and teaching experience from abroad. So why not try and get a University job where you can teach your subject, be around like-minded people, and do research?

Otherwise I imagine your good at writing. So maybe try grant writing, or technical writing. If you picked up a language will you were abroad, are you proficient enough to use it in a business setting? If you did, then that will be an asset you can rely on.

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>>18343778
>have you thought about teaching University? You have a masters degree and teaching experience from abroad
most of the college profs ive had have phds
but yeah, college professorship is like this HUGE unattainable awesome goal ive dreamed about

i am a pretty good writer, not on here obviously, but in general. i've no idea how to write a grant, much less what that actually means. what's technical writing?

as far as language is concerned, i feel like if i stayed put in a foreign country for 6-12 months id pick up the language at a rudimentary level, nowhere near business proficiency tho :(
but isn't English the international business language?

>>18343814
>most of the college profs ive had have phds
There are a ton of adjunct and low-level associate professorships/instructor positions at every college. Don't just aim for research universities, but consider small Catholic colleges, women's colleges, historically black colleges, etc.

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>>18343778
another reason i think a college professorship is a moonshot is it's basically 500 applicants for one job, they all have phds, and teaching experience and connections... but a lot of professors where i got my masters have connections with community colleges, if i do a doctorate at the same place i can let them know im interested

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ps. thanks for everybody being so cool on this board, honestly, the words of support mean a lot, it calms me down and i have less anxiety about the future. i'm gonna be ok guys, and a part of that is this online community

>>18343814
>>18343827
Like >>18343825 said, you can get a job with your skill level if you aim for different Universities, or you can try community college. Also if you do go k-12, most charter schools only require a bachelors degree in whatever your teaching. And a charter school means smaller classes, and more focused students anyway. Some community colleges only require bachelors too.

So don't pack up the dream of teaching yet. A lot of people apply everywhere, but if you make an effort with your resume/cover letter and utilize connections, you'll be ok.

As for technical writing, its writing things like handbooks, manuals, etc. They look for people that know how to explain complex concepts in simple terms.

>>18343879
>explain complex concepts in simple terms.
i can do that.
>charter schools
that's definitely on my radar, im still unclear as to whether or not you need to take the PRAXIS (it's the exam that qualifies you to teach in public schools) to teach at a charter school.

if im enrolled in a doctorate and working, it'll be hard to squeeze in study time for the praxis

>>18343451
>all the fucking time
So what's stopping you. I feel like if I was Christian it's a life that would suit me very well.

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>>18343931
being a disappointment to my family. They're very successful career types. Retired now, but very professional/productive. Definitely wouldn't look kindly on it, it would cause a lot of heartbreak.

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>>18343970
but yeah, always thought it'd be really nice to spend a long time in a monastery as a monk, or even as an itinerant

>>18343986
Well have you ever actually talked to your family about it, don't assume how they'll feel. I obviously can't speak for people I've never met, but in my experience what parents most want is for their children to be doing what makes them happy.

Even if they're surprised or don't understand your desire to enter a monastic life as long as you show them you're serious about it and enjoy it they'll understand. And even if they don't, you can't live your life for others, you have to live it for yourself.

Obviously they know how important religion is to you, and there are active orders that focus on helping others for the glory of God.

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>>18344063
i have, several times, they think it's a "phase" or something i'm talking about doing to avoid "real responsibility"

>>18344196
You're 29, who cares what they think?

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>>18344372
i do. im an only child raised in a house with upper middle class professionals. there's issues of family honor, inheritance, legacy, expectation, etc.

>>18342366
>I went to college to become a pastor but I can't be bothered with waking up early on a Sunday or listening to conservative old people
Wow, you may be the stupidest person I have ever seen here

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>>18344461
it's a bit deeper than that boss

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last bump

>>18344461
Really OP should probably just bite the bullet and travel to another church with younger people. Like maybe in a college town.

When I was in grad school, one classmate's wife was working as a youth minister kind of thing and was commenting on how great it was to have so many young people around.