Expressing heterosexuality as a male?

It's a problem with girls that they can't make decisions, so you have to make them for them.

No children would ever be born in this world if men were not persistent in their pursuit of sex and relationships with women, because women wouldn't seek it out.

They passively wait for you to make decisions, and then you they turn down your suggestions unless you happen to be able to read their thoughts.

That's how it works.

>>18248737

>its a problem with girls that they can't make decisions, so you have to mkae them for them.

we can, it just seems silly when a guy hits on us, we are interested in seeing where it coudl go, but then they expect us to basically seduce our selves for them.

>>18248740
How fun do you think it is to go to date with someone who is like "hey, impress me".

It's like a fucking job interview.

>>18248740
Yeah sure, you have to do the whole damn job for us in everything right?

>>18248721
Take the frame that girls NEED your attention for their self-esteem. While catcalling is definitely annoying and sometimes dangerous for them, they still want you to notice them.

Imagine if girl putting on makeup for hours, in hope of getting a compliment, but only receives creepy stares or whistles. That would make her feel bad, or feel like a slut ot something Some girls like the whistles, but classy girls usually dont.

be sincere but direct, just say "I'm sorry to bother you miss, but you are really beautiful". Just think "if i dont approach her, i won't get laid and she'll think she's ugly"

>>18248744

>its like a fucking job interview

and in a way it is. you have decided that you like this person. this person has not decided if they like you. you are asking them out to get to know them, and they are agreeing to find out what you are about.

to end that interaction with
>k, you decide what and when were doing

why should they bother?

>>18248745

sometimes. if i get asked out by a guy about 60% of the time this happens
>we chat
>he asks if id like to hang out
>i say 'sure what do you have in mind?'
>he says 'im down for whatever'

so yeah, thats expecting me to do everything. when i do ask out a guy (which is more common than you'd think at least with tinder) i always throw out at least 'lets get sushi' if i have money or 'want to come play video games' or 'want to come make dinner with me?' if im poor.

>>18248748
Why do they need it from guys who they know have no interest in how they look? One friend constantly tells me when she gets her nails done as though I'm going to suddenly grow an interest in them.

>>18248721
>I also ask for permission a lot out of respect. I will ask "do you want to go out with me?" Or "may I have your cell number?" Mostly because I feel that PUA tip of saying demands rather than asking is weird to me.
I'm assuming because you made this thread that this hasn't been working

>If some woman said "we are going out at 10pm" to me in a demanding tone, I would be put off
That's because you're a man and not a woman.

>>18248765
Are you stupid? Just because someone is a guy or girl doesn't mean they're going to be okay with being told and not asked what to do. The proper advice would be to make suggestions instead of asking questions because constantly wondering makes you seem unsure of everything, which is a huge turn-off for most girls.

>>18248751
>thats expecting me to do everything
No, he just doesn't want to take you on a date which you will hate.

Of course, it's not hard to make a suggestion.. from the top of my head
>Go get a coffee
>Go out and eat
>Go get china food and have sex at a hotel
>Go to an anime con
>Rent an apartment in New York and have sex for a week

I did all these.
Anyway, the problem is not making a suggestion, the problem is that 90% of girls are always busy with college or with their sisters baby shower or with fucking summer jobs or thanks giving.. they never have time and it's always impossible to get hold of them.

They tell you they love you, until 2 years later when this conversation happens:

>- But... you said you loved me.
>- Oh. i meant that i love you as a friend anon!

Or some bullshit happens and they get mad and can never forgive you. Or they just fucking get bored with their lives and you're the problem because you're not entertaining enough.

Guys are not worth so much to women anyway, there is always another guy. If life is not fun, just get a new boyfirend and it will feel better.

>>18248788

>no, he jus tdoesn't want to take you on a date which you will hate

re: seduce my self for him. im not a mystery, im not a guessing game. im not going to agree to go on a date if i hate the basics and if a guy suggests something i absolutely dislike I will say so and offer an alternative.

but to just say
>whatever you want to do is cool'
is pretty shitty if you're the one into me and making moves on me.

>all those suggestions

and thats great. but if a guy comes up to me and asks me on a date, its not my job to suggest something for him.

id kill for some chinese food right now though.

>the problem is girls are always busy

if a girl is legit too busy to agree to coffee than shes probably not into you. I only had that problem once when i had just moved to LA just turning 18 and figuring out the how to actually live stuff.

>i loved oyu as a friend

dude, what? you're going off on some completely unrelaated tangents that had nothing to do with what we were discussing.

>>18248788
>Guys are not worth so much to women
truth that hurts :c

Op here,

I get that the guy should probably pick the location of the date but I often wonder how I even get to that point. I don't think a woman has ever... EVER been into me. I have never felt that emotional high of someone being attracted you.

This why I kinda envy women. Even though catcalling sucks and getting hit on by strangers is probably annoying.. it's still a ego boost.

My ego as a male is completely shot. It's so weak that I can't fathom someone loving it even liking me.

When you are a dude... you can't get those ego boosts easily. When you are female, you make one OkCupid account and the ego boosts just flow in.

My confidence has been dead for years so everything I do that requires confidence is a suicide mission to me. The anxiety eats me alive. If only I had some way to boost my confidence.

>>18248943
Well, It's just the way life is all the time.
From my experience at least, and im almost 30 years old.

>>18248721
>If some woman said "we are going out at 10pm" to me in a demanding tone, I would be put off.
Yeah you also wouldn't like to get your hair pulled or lightly choked during sex. I know what you mean, but you have to find out what actually works for the women

>>18248943
If it makes you feel better I'm a woman, and have never been catcalled or asked out. I look like a tranny no matter how hard I try.

Were you raised by a single mother, though? I find that the guys who are terrified of seeming creepy are mostly from single mothers. After all, there are plenty of sexually aggressive ugly men. Mom got knocked up by a bad boy, he left her, then she takes out all her anger by raising her son to be asexual.

>>18248997
I was raised by a single mother but because my father died before my birth.

I don't feel I am asexual but assertiveness and aggression are emotions I don't feel too much.

It's really hard to rile me up

>>18248997
Not that guy, but my life has been exactly the same and i was just raised by old parents who hated each other.

>>18248943
You're right, I think that people are actually nicer towards women than men, especially the pretty ones. But as a male let me tell you something.
When you're a dude people respect you more and take you more serious for your skills. Granted that you have self respect and some skills to show for that's where you get your ego boosts from as a man

>>18249028
You can have tons of skills at your job, and get paid well, but it won't give you a girlfriend.

>>18249041
>implying money and status won't help with women

>>18248744
At least you know what gotta do so yeah I would rather prefer a job interview date.

>>18248748
>I'm sorry to bother you miss, but you are really beautiful
Should I wear a fedora too?

>>18249046
Actually it does not.
I work as a database dev at a fintech company.
Girls don't care, and women can make their own money these days.

>>18249054
It would probably be a different story if i were a dj at a famous club instead of being a suit wearing geek.

Girls like guys who have high social status, who are famous. You could probably be a multi millionaire virgin for all i know.

>>18248997
single mothers should be genocided to be quite honest.

>>18249054
What do they even need guys for, then?

>>18249068
living dildos and emotional tampons.

>>18249059
Multiple chicks told me that a suit automatically made a man more attractive to them. Problem is when you act like a total geek

>>18249078
>Problem is when you act like a total geek
so just don't bee urself? Nerds are usually nerds because they didn't fit in to begin with.

>>18249074
The fuck is an emotional tampon? Living dildo is pretty obvious but a guy can't "absorb" the feelings she's putting out.

>>18249078
Well, i just look like a goof.
But if started my own consultant business i would make six figures, today.
That's a lot of hookers.

>>18249084
>a guy can't "absorb" the feelings she's putting out.
You might just be autistic for taking that so literally. Most normal people like to vent their issues to others because it makes them feel better. An emotional tampon is one of those guys a woman has no obligation to but knows he'll always be there to listen to her issues and make her feel better. A "beta orbiter" kind of thing.

>>18248776
Look, I know that. OP THINKS that's what he's doing, but he's obviously not being assertive enough. He needs to be told to tell people what to do in order to get him to actually start asking.

>>18249099
It's just nasty rhetoric, like "cumdumpster". Personal cat would be better because it provides all the same shit a "beta orbiter" would, plus cuddles.

>>18249142
I don't care what you think is better you crazy old cat lady, I'm talking about things that actually happen.

>>18248721

Yo OP. I know what you mean about it being hard to navigate masculine expectations, because on the one hand, you're supposed to not make women uncomfortable with unwelcome advanced, but at the same time, all the onus is on you to initiate things because it's not likely that even a girl who finds you attractive is going to come up to you and ask for your number.

Being a feminist dude who also tries to be aware of things like catcalling and objectification, I feel you. But you gotta learn something: being respectful of women does not mean you have to treat them like they're made out of porcelain.

Lets say you hit on a girl, ask for her number, and she rejects you, or maybe doesn't outright reject you, but you can tell from her body language that she's not interested.

Does that make you a rapist? No. If you don't pressure her or harass her, you've made somebody mildly uncomfortable for three minutes, and then let her go on with her day. It was no worse than being asked for change. Probably nowhere near as bad as being approached by a missionary or salesperson or a volunteer for a local political candidate.

It's okay to show interest, and it's okay to show it in ways that doesn't make it sound like her going out with you is a favour she is bestowing upon you. You chat her up, and when you find that you're gelling, pull out your phone, open the "new contacts" thing and say, "hey, I'd love to talk to you, why don't we grab a drink some time?" It's even better if you already have a specific time and place in mind. "I'm going to this concert on Thursday. You should see it!" You see, you don't ask for the number, you raise the idea of spending time together. The number is just what's going to facilitate it. You're not demanding anything. She's free to decline. She's free to never answer your texts. She isn't signing a contract. If you don't text her "pls respond" seven times a day, you're not some harasser. Things just didn't work out, big deal.

TBC

>>18249201 con't

And you're going to get a lot of shit advice from all over. PUA redpillers or whatever who tell you that you have to be an asshole to get chicks. Or people who will tell you things like, "it's not okay to approach women on the bus or in the library, they are going about their day, not looking to be talked to! Only approach women is places like pubs and clubs!"

Here's the thing: women are people. And people are different. There are women who absolutely hate being approached by men under any circumstances. Does that make them bitches? No, it's their preference. If you hit on a woman who turns out to be one of these, does that make you a harasser? No, you couldn't have known.

There are other women who are very open to meeting new people wherever. Grocery shopping, at the book store, at the park, whatever. They might find that it's a pleasant upset of their routine when somebody comes up to talk to them and share good conversation. Especially because it's not super common for folks to talk to strangers these days.

And honestly, do you really want to troll bars for the rest of your life to pick up women? No, you probably want to meet them in "the wild," in real life where you're going about the things you're interested in or just plain have to do to live, and come across other people doing the same thing. There's still times that are almost always inappropriate to hit on somebody during, but don't automatically feel like you're violating somebody's rights by talking to them. They may love it! And if they don't, as long as you're respectful of their preference, no harm, no foul.

tl;dr you can be a respectful feminist man without being a wuss

>>18249245
I like your optimism, but when it comes to hitting to women at work, i really can't do it, because they happen to take it bad i could get into serious trouble.

I doubt i would get fired, but just having the whole office know that i was rejected by some half-fat tattooed customer service girl really won't make my life nicer to live.

And women at grocery stores... they are really just going about their business man. Are you in the mood for flirting when you're at the grocery store? No, you're just there because you have to get something for dinner.

Have you ever seen anyone hit on anyone in a grocery store? Probably not.

Have you seen anyone hit on anyone at the gym, well maybe you have. I have, he failed pretty bad.

>>18248721
better asking and looking nerdy than having them hit you up with " i didnt even wanna have sex"

>>18248943
You could try getting gud at things women would respect like cooking.
Also women like it when they're not just peasant D to you. You have to show her she's special and "not like the other girls".
Honestly, if you don't have any confidence in yourself women won't either.
Try to work out and hone your social skills by engaging in more activities with other people.
Jump in at the deep end.

>>18249263

Well yeah, work is one of the places where you can't hit on people. I mean, it's unprofessional to hit on customers. You can flirt with coworkers if you read them well enough to be reasonably certain that they won't be weirded out, that one is more contextual.

And the gym is also a bad place to try to pick people up, yeah.

As for one customer hitting on another customer? Yeah sure, why not. Yeah, I'm in the mood for flirting when I'm at the grocery store. If an attractive woman came up to me in the dairy department, I wouldn't be like, "pardon me, ma'am, but I'm kinda in the middle of selecting Yoplait flavours right now."

But yeah, everybody's different. Maybe you don't want to be bothered at the grocery store.
People are different from each other. Some people will be open to it, some won't.

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>>18248943

>>18249201
>>18249245
That's all fine and dandy but what do you actually say as an opener in a library, bus, park or cafe especially in a city?

>>18248943
Somehow manage to get gf one day, constantly thinking to myself: what does she see in me? We have a lot of shit in common and a good connection but how can she possibly be attracted to me physically, it still fucking boggles my mind when someone tells me I'm a good looking guy, I usually think they're lying to be nice to me, I don't even know how to properly respond to compliments about my looks
(I have a babyface)

>>18249426
You have to learn to think on your feet. You can't pre-package lines, because they only make sense if they are relevant.

Of course you can't think of a witty thing to say for every given scenario. It's perfectly okay to just ask how her day has been going, compliment a piece she's wearing, ask about a book she's holding, talk about the weather, etc. The very first line doesn't make or break shit, it's if you can get good conversation rolling.

>>18248943
You gotta go on a 1,000 suicide missions OP.

Calcify your ego like Thai boxers do their shins. Be rejected ten thousand times.

>>18249480
Why does everything you say sound like shit? He's obviously trying to get to the point.

>Excuse me, miss? Do you have someone?
>Her: what?
>Are you dating someone right now?
If yes
>Can I talk to you anyway?
If no
>Can I get your number and maybe change that?

Wow, so hard.

>>18248997
NICE TITS LADY!!!

There, you happy?

>>18248721
If you like a woman, then you have to do something to share time with her. You have the role to initiate something. There are also women which do the work, but it's not very common. In a perfect situation both should work together an do their parts to initiate a situation to share time together. But mostly (even more in the beginning part, where you got to know a woman) you are the one, who has to do most parts of the work. I don't like it too and I think it's very helpful if both are interested in each other, but that's the way it is. Accept it and use it.

Furthermore: A woman wants you to be the one who shows interest and tries to initiate events/meetings. She wants to see, that you are thinking of her and that you want to have her around you. If you like a woman, then it's you job (at least in beginning). But again: Keep attention, so you don't are in a situation, in which only you are organizing and she's laying back just "waiting". She has also an important role to make the situation for you both a great time.

>>18249053
only if you talk like chris chan while wearing it

>>18249858
this could only work if you're George Clooney

>>18249858
But you see, that doesn't work most of the time.

Think about it: if you approach somebody for a date and do nothing but ask for their number, you haven't given them any reason why they should be interested in you. You haven't told them what's in it for them. All you've said is what's in it for YOU, that you want to go on a date with them.

If you get into conversation a bit, show a bit of your personality, show you are good at conversation, can make her laugh, or that you have similar interests, then when you ask for a date, she has something to go on to decide whether she likes you enough to give it a shot.

I use a salesperson analogy. Some salesperson comes up to you with a product they want to sell, but instead of telling you the product's merits and how it would benefit you, they only tell you that they want to make the sell because then they can make money.

Cool. You make money. What's in it for me? Why would I want this product? You have no reason to buy it until you know anything about it and how it might help you is demonstrated to you.

That's why, unless you are a supermodel, just going up to somebody and saying "hey are you single and if so wanna date?" makes zero sense.

>>18250358
You guys have no balls. A guy on the train uses a puppet to get girls numbers and you're saying it's hard. It's really not.

>>18250946
It doesn't matter if it doesn't work "most of the time". You're ranting and thinking too much about something that's basically human fishing. All you need is their attention and a bite, you build from there afterward. With the number, she knows you not only want to, but have the courage to keep up prolonged conversation and aren't worried about perfecting some ultra one liner that killz all da ladeez

>>18251065
I'm not saying that a ultra one liner is better but something to just open a conversation other than "hey are you single" and then leave it at that after you get the number especially when you're in a coffee shop, park or bus where you will stay for a while. Grocery store would be weird as well desu

>>18251065
>. With the number, she knows you not only want to, but have the courage to keep up prolonged conversation

Wait, how does just asking for a number demonstrate one's conversational skills better than asking for a number after or within an actual conversation?

Lol, I just said that what the opening line is isn't the most important thing, and it's all about showing her a bit of your personality and seeing a bit of hers so you know if you're interested in further communication. Where did I say anything about "perfecting the perfect one-liner?" Opening with something funny that isn't a pickup line is a bonus, but I just said that if you can't think of anything clever about your current environment, you don't have to, you can just talk about whatever.

Out of curiosity, how many women's numbers have you gotten?

>>18249787
This.

I no longer feel embarrassed when I get rejected

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>>18249858
>Telling people to just go up to women and ask for a date with no actual conversation whatsoever
>While criticizing somebody else for giving shit advice

>>18249330
I do think you're right that it's easier for women to feel appreciated because they actually get approached by strangers, unlike men do. But I'd like to point out that if you're approached by someone who'd obviously take anyone anywhere and do anything to get there, nevermind the lies and blatant sleazy flattering it takes, then it does not function like an ego boost at all to be on the receiving end. On the contrary: if you fall for it, your ego will be worse than before.

>>18248748
>Imagine if girl putting on makeup for hours, in hope of getting a compliment
I think imagine is the key word in this sentence.