How far is too far? I met this girl online and had her over.

>>18246949
>did I push too hard?

Probably. But we aren't the ones with the answer. We don't know her, or how she feels. She's the only one that can tell you for sure.

>>18246949
>Is this ok?
She told you to stop and you kinda did, but then you kept going anyway, and escalated from there? Fuck no that's not okay you asshole.

>did I push too hard?
If you have to ask that, you obviously already know the answer. Anything in the slightest that is not a full and unequivocal YES means it's NO. That's what constitutes consent.

>did she just give in because she felt threatened
Probably. I'm sure it felt good too and that's something else that kept her from bolting. But now imagine how she feels. You did something to her she didn't want done. She asked you to stop. You kept going. Her body responded even while her mind pulled back from what you were doing. Can you really imagine how used she must feel? Turned into an object beholden to her orgasm and the things you're doing to her because you don't care enough about her to stop when she says no.

Kinda rapist shit bro.

yeah, i'm the same. i can't really tell someone no because i am afraid of rejection and also hugely socially awkward. she definitely tried to tell you in her own way that she doesnmt want this but you ignored her and kept going. she might stick around because she is too afraid of telling you no (even to hanging out). i strongly suspect that she will just ghost you one day. why did you feel the need to push further after she tried to stop you? did you think this is some kinky "take me oh big warrior, i'll pretend to resist but really i just want you to fuck me with your huge cock" scenario? switch on your brain next time.

>>18246949

Describe her looks OP.

>>18246949
Congratulations, OP. You're a rapist. You know those mental images you have of niggers raping women at gunpoint in back alleys? That's not actually how it works.

>>18246965

>didn't say no
>didn't scream
>didn't fight back
>is interested in hanging out again
>rape
???

>>18246949
She probably has a rape fetish if she's still talking to you and wanting to do it all over again.

>>18246971
Yeah, you know that mental image you have of crying, screaming women? That's not how it works, either.

>>18246949
>A
You did everything perfectly right and she wanted you to be dominant.

>B
You went too fast, too far but she was mostly okay with it. So it's not a biggie.

>C
She was totally not okay with it but didn't know how to make you stop but didn't hate what happened completely.

>D
She's an insecure wreck that was taken advantage of by a rapist and thinks she deserved it due her frail mindstate so won't object meeting you again.

Based on the information given it could be either of these. Personally I feel you went too far and given that you even have to ask, you probably did. Legally you definitely on the rape-y side.

>>18246956
>Turned into an object beholden to her orgasm and the things you're doing to her because you don't care enough about her to stop when she says no.

Sounds kind of hot.

I know this is crazy, but maybe she enjoyed herself, doesn't care, and wants to hang out with him again.

Stop assuming you know how someone you've never met reacted to a situation that you weren't there to witness or have all the details of.

>>18246971
>I literally have no idea what consent looks like

This is why you're still a virgin.

>>18246971
That's not how consent works. If there is no clear yes, it's always a no.

>>18246979
Yeah, sometimes it is.

>>18246980
This basically, only she can decide. Our opinions are irrelevant as to how she feels.

OP you just have to talk to her more.

>>18246979
>>18246985
>>18246984

Why don't you girls just learn to say no?

>>18246985
That's not actually how consent works either.

>>18246983
>I know this is crazy, but maybe she enjoyed herself, doesn't care, and wants to hang out with him again.
That's just as likely as him having actually gone against her will. He asked for opinions. Those seem to be the most popular 2. What was it about assuming how someone you've never met reacted to a situation? Is that not exactly what you're doing advocating for the other viewpoint?

The larger point is, and I feel a lot of you less enlightened fucks aren't quite seeing it here, if she didn't say yes. She did not consent. Full stop. Whether she wanted it or not, whether she enjoyed it or not, she did not actively confirm that she wanted him to do what he did. He did not get her consent before engaging her in intimate sexual activity. This is the basic definition of rape.

You are a rapist, op. You're exactly like my ex who raped me multiple times

I had shit self esteem and came from a lot of abuse, so I took it and stayed with him, but you are garbage. You took advantage of a girly who most likely was like me and too scared to say no to you

>>18246993
Why don't you just get permission before you start having your way with a girl? Seems more imperative for you to have the go ahead than for her to need to stop you from doing something. Unless you're a self-centered asshole, I guess.

>>18246993
WOMYN AREN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR RAPIST'S ACTIONS YOU SHITLORD

>>18246993
Jesus, use your head for a fucking second. The upper one.

>>18246993
>Why don't you say no
Because when I said no, he read on the fucking internet that no means yes to girls.

I was taught at a young age that saying no was rude and was punished when I said no.

>>18246949
Seriously just ask her. Voice your concerns honestly with her if you actually give a shit about her and want to be closer.

As others stated already, none of us have the answer, only she would know how the fuck she feels.

>>18247008
>Seriously just ask her
This OP, ask her about that "incident", and fucking apologize.

>>18246997
I'm not advocating the other viewpoint. I'm saying that no one knows the entire situation, and you can't make assumptions without knowing the whole story.

> if she didn't say yes. She did not consent.

Funny, my wife didn't say yes last night when we fucked. I didn't ask her. We just started fooling around and ended up fucking. I didn't stop to ask her if she wanted to. And yet, some how, I didn't rape her.

>This is the basic definition of rape.

No, it's not.

>>18247002
>>18247004
>>18247005
>>18247007

If you can say "No I asked for a flat white not a cappuccino", why can't you say "No I don't want to have sex"?

Why can't women into confidence?

>>18247022
>my wife
What goes on in your bedroom is in no way comparable to what some guy did to a girl he just met who showed signs of resistance to what was being done. Apples and oranges.

>no it's not
I dare you to provide a better definition of rape than sexual advances without consent of the other party. Of course if you're going to argue it in a court room, Captain Literal, there's always mitigating circumstances. This is pretty cut and dry. This is a girl he just met. He did sexual things without her consent. She showed signs of resistance. There's a 50/50 chance he raped that chick, and that's ONLY if you graciously provide for the ideal scenario where non-consent is her fetish.

If you're not advocating for the "totally not rape" crowd, I don't know why you're still arguing except out of willful ignorance.

>>18247027
Why can't you ask a girl for consent before you sex her? Why is it her responsibility to make you stop doing something to her body? Are you really so much actual human shit?

>>18247027
Let's make the example closer to reality...

>you're alone in the basement of 6,6" 250pounds NegroMcBlackface
>five of his even bigger roided friends join you on the couch
>one puts an arm around you
>one of his buddies pulls out a gun and casually plays with it
>the other strokes your dick
>NegroMcBlackface is fingering your asshole
>it's unlikely that anyone will believe you what happened
>if they do, you will labeled as a dumb slut who deserved it
>you don't know what happens if you say no besides it seems too late for that either way

Wonder how you will react?

>>18247038

Maybe you should stop going on dates with 6.6" 250pounds NegroMcBlackface.

>>18247060
So back to victim blaming and missing the point?

>>18247064

Look, if I were to walk pants down a notorious gay neighbourhood, I'm pretty sure the blame of getting buttfucked would partly be on me.

if you go on a date (and take note, this is 2017 where fucking on the first date is basically expected), and can't even muster the simple courage to mouth one single fucking world "NO", then yeah, the responsibility of having a dick slipped in you is yours to share as well.

>>18247068
>doing something retarded is the same as having someone force themselves on you
>you're responsible for someone forcing themselves on you if you're not capable of telling them to stop

Not sure if troll or just retarded, I just take solace in knowing wherever you are, you're alone.

>>18247068
> a notorious gay neighbourhood, I'm pretty sure the blame of getting buttfucked would partly be on me
Not really, no.

Also how said it is in this example? NegroMcBlackface acted like Niceguy Smalldick and you just wanted to watch movies or play games. Are you really a silly as you pretend to be?

>this is 2017 where fucking on the first date is basically expected
Where the fuck do you get that bullshit? Even on Tinder it usually takes till the second unless both of you only look for a quick fuck.

>>18247073
>>you're responsible for someone forcing themselves on you if you're not capable of telling them to stop

That's exactly the fucking case. If you go to a restaurant and they give you the wrong order but you eat it anyways, you're partly to blame for not getting the right food. If your professor gives you the wrong paper back but you don't talk to him, you're partly to blame.

You got a fucking mouth for a reason. Use it. You're a human, we communicate for a reason, just because you're a woman doesn't give you the right to just sit back and assume everything you want or need is automatically recognised by men. Males are not telepathic, and if anything low on the emotional intelligence scale.

>>18247077
You keep coming up with simplistic nonsense trying to draw parallels between things that have nothing to do with rape, and rape. Ordering at a restaurant and having your order fucked up is not the same as a guy walking up to you, shoving his hand in your pants, and fondling your genitals. You are a complete ignoramus or an immature child for even entertaining such a notion. The complexities of human interaction, particularly pertaining to sex, are so widely varying that comparing sex to anything other than sex is a disingenuous act of futility. Stop saying dumb shit.

It is not for a person to ever impose their will on another without their permission. This is wrong. When that will is imposed without their permission in a sexual manner, this is rape. Rape is wrong, regardless of whether it is actively stopped by the assaulted participant. Stop trying to normalize or explain rape with your false equivalencies. It's fucking disgusting.

>>18247077
She still pushed his arm, twice.
She protested when he was fingering her.
That's even more explicit than a "no" imo.

Her only reaction that might say otherwise is when she asked to wait. But even then, maybe she understood that he won't stop.

>>18247080
>the same as a guy walking up to you, shoving his hand in your pants, and fondling your genitals

We're talking about YOU, willingly going to another guy's apartment ALONE, with the intention of a DATE/SEX.

If a stranger did that shit, sure, he's a fucking creep. But don't act like an angel and pretend you're just there to stare at his wall or whatever. In that context, it's clear what's expected, and it's up to you to set the boundaries.

>>18247068
Except she did say no, dumbshit. Several fucking times. Read it again.

>>18246949
>you're on a date with a girl
>she super shy and quiet and not really saying much
>you start groping her
>she's not reciprocating or acting like she enjoys it at all, but she "doesn't really protest"
>eventually you make out for a while
>you grope her again, she physically stops you, you overpower her
>you reach up her skirt, she physically stops you, you overpower her
>you start biting her neck, she verbally protests, you ignore her protests and continue anyway
>you start going down on her, she verbally protests, you ignore her
>at this point she stops saying anything and lets you fuck her
If you don't think this was rape, you're a fucking idiot, whether or not she enjoyed it.

At virtually every step of the way except the very last one, she made it VERY CLEAR that she didn't want any of this. And at that point it was blatantly clear that OP was just going to ignore whatever she said or did and do what he wanted regardless, physically forcing her if he had to.

I can't help but feel in a generation with porn warped fetishes among men and a BDSM book as a women's best seller that consent has to be based on the "no".

However, the owness is on men to know their sexual partner to better guess when there's a no in their head but not on their lips.

>>18247085
>because she went on a date the man is entitled to sex
>because she went to his house the man is entitled to sex
>if he gets what he's entitled to it's her problem if she doesn't stop him, not his

Please explain how this is OK? Do you really believe you would be in the right to fuck a girl just because she went out with you and came back to your house whether she wanted it or not? How does it feel knowing you'll literally never touch a woman with a mentality like this? I mean, unless you rip off and rape her because, hey, that's what you're owed, right? :^)

>>18247090
If you think this phenomenon is new, you're really not paying attention. You think most men in the 80's gave 2 shits about whether the woman gave overt permission for him to do whatever he wanted? Proper consent hasn't really been addressed as a serious issue except in the last 10 years or so.

>>18247085
Jesus, think if this was your fucking daughter, man. Young adults are still complete morons but it doesn't mean they should pay for it by getting fucking raped.

>>18247091
>How does it feel knowing you'll literally never touch a woman with a mentality like this?
Unfortunately some girls have confused ideas about consent too. Dude you're replying to is an absolute idiot, but I don't like comments like this, because if he's convinced some poor girl to date him or let him put his penis inside her at any point in the past, it lets him walk away from the conversation dismissing everything everybody said because you were "wrong" about him.

Whether he's fucked three hundred girls or he's a 30-year-old kissless virgin, he doesn't understand consent, and instead of admitting his mistake he's digging his heels in like a moron. I think it's better to leave it at that.

>>18247031
>What goes on in your bedroom is in no way comparable to what some guy did to a girl he just met who showed signs of resistance to what was being done. Apples and oranges.

No it's not. Its sexual contact between a man and a woman. I'm capable of raping my wife. I could be arrested and charged with rape if I did. Yes, I'm much more familiar with my wife, and I can read her non-verbal signals very easily, but just because I've been with my wife much longer doesn't actually make the situation different.

Or are you trying to claim that rape within a marriage is some how different than rape outside marriage?

>I dare you to provide a better definition of rape than sexual advances without consent of the other party.

I'm not disputing what rape is. You're missing out on the fact that consent doesn't necessarily need to be verbal. When I was younger and traveling in Germany, I made the intercourse with a young woman that didn't speak English. I unfortunately didn't speak her language either. I promise there was plenty of consent. Having sex without a specific verbal agreement is not by definition rape. Which is what you claimed. Which is what I take exception with.

> I don't know why you're still arguing except out of willful ignorance.

Because your making claims that are just wrong.

>There's a 50/50 chance he raped that chick, and that's ONLY if you graciously provide for the ideal scenario where non-consent is her fetish.

Listen, the problem is there are important details that we don't have before anyone can start claiming rape on behalf of someone else. Should OP probably respect a girl's boundaries more? Yeah. It honestly makes me kind of uncomfortable reading his description. But this is the thing: I don't know. And rape is such a serious thing that I don't appreciate when people make claims without actually knowing what happened. There is only 1 person that can decide whether or not a rape occurred, and that's the girl OP slept with.

You kept on pushing her after she pushed you off and then had sex? And you have to ask if that's okay or not? Newflash: she was and is probably scared of you and what you'd have done to her if she'd said no outright.

>>18247100
Except marriage comes with physical rights over each other's bodies, which is one of the many reasons why it's unethical and shouldn't be financially incentivized. So no, it's not the same thing. Also, I'm guessing your wife didn't repeatedly push you away as you groped her.

>>18247100
>but just because I've been with my wife much longer doesn't actually make the situation different.
That ability to read her body queues and know what she's thinking is something Joe Dipshit should have cultivated with a girl on the first date? You're really going to sit there and insist there's no difference?

>Or are you trying to claim that rape
You're the one pretending consent isn't necessary, I'm not claiming anything. I get there's a difference between seeking permission from a girl you just met and the average sexual encounter with your wife, the fact that you don't astounds me. Then you go on to acknowledge that spousal rape is possible? Are you just playing devil's advocate for shits and giggles now?

>consent doesn't necessarily need to be verbal
No, but there does necessarily need to be consent. Again, I acknowledge that it's possible to have non-verbal consent. I'm also saying that non-verbal consent isn't really possible outside of a relationship in which you know your partner relatively well, and almost impossible with a girl you just met. You can argue till your blue in the face about verbal consent v. other types, but the fact of the matter and my largest point here, which seems to flow so easily over a lot of people in this thread's heads, is that YOU MUST HAVE CONSENT OR IT IS RAPE. FULL STOP. If she's resistant at any point to sexual advances, PROTIP, it's probably rape.

>rape is so serious I don't appreciate people making claims without knowing what happened
If it's so serious, why are you going to dismiss what looks like a rape out of hand entirely simply because you don't have enough evidence? You know in the average rape there's very little evidence outside of he-said-she-said, right? Are you the type of guy who's going to tell a girl to her face you don't believe she's been raped because she didn't get it on film? Or is it just that you're worried about the "false rape claim" phenomenon that almost never happens?

>>18247100
>No it's not.
Yeah. Yeah, it is. You clearly read his post, you quoted the entire line, so why are you selectively responding to the bit about being married and ignoring all of this
>who showed signs of resistance to what was being done

OF COURSE consent can be nonverbal, but if you don't know the person and have a prior sexual relationship, that nonverbal consent needs to be VERY CLEAR (as I'm sure it was with the young German girl you "made the intercourse" with). In OP's case there was emphatically NOT clear nonverbal consent - rather the opposite.

>There is only 1 person that can decide whether or not a rape occurred, and that's the girl OP slept with.
No. Absolutely not. Sorry. Rape is rape regardless of how the girl feels about it, and as noted above, plenty of girls have confused ideas about consent too. It's not about whether somebody was traumatized or not, or whether they secretly wanted it deep down. Nonconsensual sex is rape. No consent was obtained in this case, verbal or nonverbal.

I sincerely HOPE she doesn't "feel raped", I hope that against all odds it was an enjoyable experience that she ultimately did "want" and was just too shy to actively pursue, because the alternative is absolutely horrible - but if a girl never verbally consents or nonverbally encourages you and tries to stop you four fucking times before falling silent and just letting you do your thing, then you raped her. End of story.

I really should not have to explain this to a married adult.

>>18247110
Looking forward to that dude selectively replying to this (which is arguable)

>I'm also saying that non-verbal consent isn't really possible outside of a relationship

as an excuse to reply to you while continuing to ignore the fact that, REGARDLESS of whether or not nonverbal consent is possible outside of preexisting relationships, in the OP's case, THERE CLEARLY WAS NO NONVERBAL CONSENT.

>>18247110
>I'm also saying that non-verbal consent isn't really possible outside of a relationship
Sure it is. If she's an active participant, that's nonverbal consent. If she's taking her clothes off, that's good enough. If she stands there rigid as a board, that's a lack of consent, which is rape. What we have here is a case of active denial of consent, which is why I'm baffled that there's literally anybody in this thread arguing that this is anything less than rape.

>>18247122
I've kinda stopped being amazed at the lengths people will go to in order to not admit something was rape.

I am resistant to the whole "rape culture" rhetoric - in general I think it is pretty eye-roll-inducing - but after a couple conversations on here I sometimes find myself taking the idea seriously. I remember a post on here a year ago about the whole Brock Turner debacle that started with "I support harsh punishments for rapists, but when it comes to borderline cases like this one ..."

In case anybody's forgotten, in that "borderline case", Turner was fingering an unconscious woman in public behind a dumpster.

Granted, that was on /pol/, which of course is a cesspool, but as evidenced by this thread that kind of shit isn't exclusive to there.

>>18247128
>Brock Turner
Who got released after three fucking months in a comfy "jail".

>>18247116
That is horseshit, and non-verbal consent is totally possible outside of a relationship.

But, you're right. I'm making shitty arguments, not getting my point across, and making an ass out of myself. Honestly, it's 5 a.m., I should have gone to sleep 6 hours ago, and I'm half brain dead at this point. At this point I can't even really think of what the fuck my stupid ass point was to begin with. Rereading the original post just makes it seem worse and worse to me, and yeah, you're probably right about there not being any consent.

I'm just going to stop talking, because I'm just making a bigger and bigger asshole out of myself, and I'm starting to go some place I don't want to go, and don't actually agree with.

>>18247142
Welcome to 4chan friendo. Don't forget, you're here forever.

>>18247142
>That is horseshit, and non-verbal consent is totally possible outside of a relationship.
For what it's worth, I do agree with this.

Get some sleep, dude.

Also, sage b/c double post in a dying thread, but I have to say I'm legitimately impressed that you read the replies, reread the OP, thought about it, and reconsidered your position.

I mean, that happens to all of us every now and then, but it's rare on here for people to have the integrity to actually admit it.

>>18247142
>probably right about there not being any consent.
>probably
>There's no point in the whole encounter at which she's not resisting him
Go to sleep, hopefully you'll be less of a rapist in the morning.

t. Man that doesn't actually like women but has a basic understanding of the concepts of consent and willingness

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>>18246949
>she is interested in hanging out again.
dont listen to neonazis anon
shes a masochist and wants to fuck you as you dominate her

>>18247249
Feel free to fuck off. I will probably still mean that when I wake up later.

>>18247249

aka a lil bitch

you do know as a guy you have pretty much complete control over how the emotions of a situation between a guy and a girl goes. the only reason it might be awkward is because you're the one being awkward. it's classic dom/sub. a girl will more than likely submit to your vibes/emotions.

anyway, i wouldn't fake trying to not make it awkward. you're already an awkward fuck. i would just like move on and focus on something else in your life. maybe occasionally paying attention to her when you're feeling lonely or horny or miss her or whatever. or when she messages you wanting attention from you

tldr don't be a clingy fuck and move on with your life

>>18247262
also. reading a few of the comments and some people were typing some shit about verbal consent

i honestly do think some of you are autistic, so ill >break it down real quick

verbal consent is the least sexy of any consent. im thinking back to this one time i met a girl at a bar. i maybe talked to her for 2 minutes before i grabbed her and pulled her out of the bar. we fucked in my car and at no point in that whole experience did i say anything like "can i take you out of here?" or "can i start making out with you" or "is it ok to pull your pants off now?"

read the mood. and do it. as far as ops case she's probably just shy but most girls like when a guy takes control. especially if they're young dumb and shy and don't know how to lead a situation for shit cause they're too big of wimps to make any concrete decision

she came. you came. she liked it. keep on with your life

If she didn't want it, she would have gotten up, and walked away. Women tend to push away not because "I don't want it" it's because the emotions and pleasure build up to levels where women's reactions don't match to how they are feeling, which is sometimes pushing away.

Since you said she's shy, it could also be nerves and her simply being embarrassed at first. But if she doesn't bring it up, neither should you.

Holy shit this thread thread is depressing.

>>18247275
>another rape apologist
Like sure it's 4chains but this is still sad.

>>18247279

>Chains

Dumb mobileposter

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>>18246997
>she did not actively confirm that she wanted him to do what he did. He did not get her consent before engaging her in intimate sexual activity. This is the basic definition of rape.

Damn. So all those times I started foreplaying with my girlfriend out of the blue, I was raping her? Fuck.

>>18247295
>>18247265
Gotta love them strawmen.

Nobody is saying you have to say "OK, please confirm that you consent to sexual intercourse between my penis and your vagina." You don't even necessarily have to SAY anything at all, yourself. But you sure as fuck have to listen.

If you barely know her, and you keep going for it and she stops you four fucking times, cut the shit and accept you're not getting laid tonight.

I had pretty much the exact same setup as OP, but after she brushed my hand away the first time, I asked her if I was misreading anything.

She said no, only that she wasn't sure how far she wanted go tonight and she didn't want to be put into a position where that might become an issue.

So I told her that I'm only having fun if she is. If she wants to stop anywhere, for whatever reason, we will. No questions, no hard feelings.

So she sucked my dick that night and I fucked her a few times a day or two later. She told me that I made her feel safe and comfortable, and that what I said to her was a massive turn on, because she was able to drop her guard and let her inhibitions out.

Is that so fucking hard guys jfc

>>18247248
Same, I've never seen anyone here do the same before him.
Good night >>18247142

So I have been reading the whole thread, and I decided to bluntly ask her about what happened and if she has ill will. She replied basically telling me that she didn't really want me to stop, and that she wants me to push harder. Shes apparently extremely repressed and basically was fine if I full on forced her.

so thats a thing that happened.

>>18246949
Ask her you idiot.

>>18247865
Tell her you think that's fucking hot, but let her know that if she says "stop" (or another easy to remember and easy to say word of her choice), you'll stop. Tell her that as long as she doesn't say the word, you'll take that as the go-ahead to use her however you please.

That'll cover your ass legally and ethically, and get her all worked up as she imagines what you'll be doing to her next time. Just make sure you respect the safe word. If she uses it, go back to what you were doing immediately before and ask if that's better. If yes, lead into something else. If no, then you should stop and figure out what the fuck's going on. Remember, BDSM is built on trust first and kink second.

>>18247904
use a word other than stop. Clearly she is going to say stop in the course of things.

>>18246949
>she pushed my arm away, but I reached again
>she protested for a little while and I fingered her.
>she wiggled and told me to wait, I stopped and looked up at her, she just stared at me and I continued
Literally rape. In the classic sense of the word, not even some modern feminist bullshit. Just literally textbook rape.

>>18247865

kek

females and white knights ITT BTFO

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>>18247865

I'm really curious what she's like OP. White? Skinny?

>>18247912
Literally not at all.

People have acknowledged -- several times -- that she might have enjoyed it. Rape is usually traumatic, but not always. Lack of consent makes something rape, not whether or not she enjoys it.

Or put more simply, the fact that sometimes - very occasionally - she really DOES want it deep down doesn't make it okay to just fuck women without consent and hope or assume that. Ever.

I'm glad this girl wasn't traumatized, but OP's still a rapist and this still wasn't okay. Sorry. Changes nothing.

>>18247904
I will set up a safe word and respect it... right now though I have to go because she basically gave me the green light to go and fuck her, If the thread is still up when I'm back I'll give an update.
>>18247918
Shes a mix of white, native american, and Mexican... She is overweight, not even going to sugar coat it, shes pear shaped, and hadn't shaved her legs before we hooked up.

>>18247912
fuck off
im female and im rooting for him before your sorry ass even got here

>>18247022
You didn't read OP where she said "No" multiple times out loud and pushed his hand away?

That is how it starts looking, then the situation can escalate. That is how my rapist started. We were hanging out with mutual friends, two of them went home leaving the two of us alone in his backyard. I move to get up and leave too, he tugs me back down. He immediately starts trying to fondle me, I tell him in a calm tone to please stop, I don't want this. I pushed his hand away.

He then took my hair and pulled it hard to pull my head back and restrain me. I started fighting physically. He was 6'4", I'm 5'6" no chance. He pinned me and over powered me and then raped me.

When he went to do the deed I was kicking and biting, he put one hand to my throat and then getting the picture I just went limp and let him.

Then he just got off me and went into the house, I got my shit and went to the police. Rape kit plus bruises on my neck were enough.

That girl went limp before I did probably because you aren't a friend close to her social group. None of us knew this guy was this way until he snapped with me.

The chick in OP didn't want to struggle because she didn't know if the struggle would severely hurt or kill her.
>t. Actual rape victim whose rapist went to jail for it. He also raped another girl after getting out in less than 2 years.

>>18247363
/thread

>>18247940
How overweight we talking? Obese or chubby?

>>18247865
>I'm OP
Right.

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>>18247940
g-gimme a pic that looks like her
I bet shes a cute

>>18247937
>OP's still a rapist even though the girl he """""""""raped"""""""""" wanted him to do what he did, enjoyed herself, and will be seeing him again
Kill yourself

>>18247961
You know without a doubt that is OP and not some r9k sperglord hijacking the thread talking about his hairy Mexican squeeze?

>>18247909
It doesn't sound like she's very vocal at all. It might not even have crossed her mind to say stop in the first place. If she wants to verbally protest as part of the experience, it's on her to pick another word.

That said, there's actually times where it's the perfect safe word. It's alpha as fuck to make her admit that she wants it more than you do. If she accidentally says it, back off and make her beg you to keep going.

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>>18247960
Basically the girl on the right, but brown and with frizzy, curly black hair and THICK ass glasses, brown girl freckles, and a small black mole on her cheek.

>>18248000
thank you
i'll use it for science

>>18248000
>19 FAT
>20 FATTER
>21 FATTEST

>>18247961
Yeah. That's how it works, you idiot.

If a girl says "no" multiple times in multiple different ways and never once encourages you or says "yes", and you go ahead and have sex with her anyway, then it was rape, regardless of whatever feely-feels she has deep in her deepest heart of hearts.

Think about it like this. Lots of women have rape fantasies. Now, obviously most of those women wouldn't be turned on at all by actually being raped, reality is rarely as sexy as fantasy. But there's certainly a few women - and obviously I mean a tiny, tiny minority, but they exist - who would legitimately enjoy *actually being raped.* And I'm talking about stranger-in-the-bushes, assaulted-in-an-alleyway, man-in-a-ski-mask rape. Not date rape.

If you, hypothetically, broke into some woman's house and raped her, and through some fluke coincidence she happened to belong to that tiny minority and she came sixty bajillion times and enjoyed the whole experience, YOU'D STILL BE A FUCKING RAPIST, and what you did would still NOT BE OKAY.

Because what matters isn't whether the victim enjoyed it, or secretly wanted it, or how traumatized she was or wasn't. What matters is whether or not there was consent. Barring the controversy about how drunk somebody can be and still consent, rape is really not that murky an issue. Either there was consent or there wasn't. In this case there was no consent. So it was rape.

TO OP: You got incredibly lucky. Count your lucky stars this turned out OK and never, ever, ever do anything like this again, because the next time there's a good chance she'll simply be intimidated and won't want it at all.
The same goes for anybody else thinking "hey, it worked for him ... I wonder ..."

TO THE POSTER I'M REPLYING TO: I don't expect to get through to you, so I'm just going to take this chance to, again, call you a fucking moron.

>>18247961
Rape has nothing to do with how much she wanted it and everything to do with consent. In the OP, consent was never sought or offered. It's great that this time it turned out that she wanted it, but next time that might not be true. There is literally no excuse for not getting consent for every sexual encounter. As pointed out in this thread, consent takes many forms, and could be as simple as spreading her legs and arching her back. Seeking consent does not imply sperging out and requiring her to sign a bunch of officially notarized liability waivers and reciting a solemn oath in front of a forum of witnesses.

tl;dr:

Yes, rape is still rape, even if you get lucky and it turns out OK after the fact.

>>18248030
Actually it's really common to orgasm during rape. To the point where sexual gratification from orgasm happens at almost equal rates in cases of adult female rape victims with adult male rapists (though while considering this keep in mind that it's common for men to be unable to cum while raping someone).

>>18248044
Yep. I specifically didn't mention that because I didn't want to cloud the issue too much (any more than the dumbshits above already have), since "orgasming during sex" and "enjoying the sex" are obviously completely separate things (and "wanting the sex" is yet another ...)

But yes, I suppose it's probably also worth saying that people frequently orgasm during rape and that has literally no implications for whether or not they wanted OR enjoyed it.

>>18248070
So what do you think about hug rape? Because I used to hug rape my girlfriend all the time and she loved me for it.

When she was in a terrible mood, when she was crying or angry, (as long as it wasn't ME making her upset) I'd grab her and pull her up into a big hug, and hold her there. She'd often be angry at first and not want it, but over time she'd be reminded that yes, cuddling is awesome, and it makes you feel good, so she'd be happy for it after.

So. This is an obvious false equivalence to rape.

BUT.

Let's set up a hypothetical based on the same principle.

Girlfriend doesn't want to fuck, but you know from experience that you just happen to be EXTREMELY attractive to her, you know you can make her wet easily. Set it up the same situation as the hug rape. "I don't want that," "Yes you do," "Oh yeah, guess I did."

Is the former scenario okay? Is the latter? No wrong answer here, not going to chew you out or le debate you for your answer, just curious what you'll have to say since you seem to have a strong opinion on this.

>>18248029
>FATTEST
I have bad news for you about the state of the world

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>>18248000
Ive finished the science
here you go

>>18248000

That's pretty fucking fat bro. What are you doing?

>>18248091
Not the same anon, but >>18248040
Regardless of how it turns out afterwards, forcing yourself sexually on someone without consent is rape

>>18248116
So does that mean the forced hug thing would be sexual assault regardless of what either of them thought about it?

>>18248120
No, because it isn't sexual.

>>18248127


Yeah but if I just walked up to some random chick on the street and force hugged her, I'd get charged with sexual assault.

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>>18248105
crap its too small
here is the larger image size

tried doing your description of her

>>18248129
I honestly don't think you would, just regular assault. It would be extremely fucking weird though

>>18248134
Okay, so skip the sexual. So he'd just get charged with assault?

>Assault is always assault, regardless of whether or not your girlfriend really wanted that hug!

>>18248142
If your friend is drunk and trying to do stupid shit and you forcibly pull him away, is that assault? Guess what, sometimes whether it's a stranger or a friend matters. The whole thing is just false equivalence, you're trying to compare sexual assault to something entirely different, for which completely different rules apply.

So if a girl pushes your arm away are you never allowed to make the attempt again without being a rapist? Let's say OP and that girl hang out a week later and start kissing, and when he goes to finger her she doesn't push his hand away. Is it different because the second attempt was made a week later, rather than a few minutes later?

>>18246960
>did you think this is some kinky "take me oh big warrior, i'll pretend to resist but really i just want you to fuck me with your huge cock" scenario?
Much MUCH more common than you might think.

I often tell girls I'm fucking that I really don't have time for this, and it turns them on that I'm doing the opposite of what I'm saying.

The girl I've been fucking for about five months tells me that if I want her to give me a blowjob, I got to grab her by the hair or neck and force her. The gives really nice head and handjobs, but will refuse to admitting she's into it. She wants me to lead, and takes my hand so I can lead her hand to my cock. Probably ashamed of liking sex, but got a higher drive than I do, so I got to force myself slightly on her.

OP sounds fine, she pushed him away, but some women need their man to be persistent and insistent.

>>18248155
Yes, it is different because it's a week later. Basic human interaction
>>>/r9k/
Also read this post: >>18247363
>Is that so fucking hard guys jfc

>>18248152
Yeah but I'm wondering why assault, sexual assault, and rape get different rulesets here.

And my "bad logic" was meant to highlight what I don't get here. Yeah, context matters. Relationship matters. Knowing the person matters. There's shit I can do with my friends that would get me arrested on assault charges if I did it to a stranger. There's shit I can do with girls at a party that would get me arrested for sexual assault if I did it to a stranger. There's shit I can do with my girlfriend that would get me arrested with a stranger.

What's that you're thinking? That's a total false equivalence when compared to this rape example? YES. I agree. So why do we apply important social context to every other situation but in this "rape" case we don't apply the important context of their relationship?

I think you guys are confusing bdsm/kink to an actual assult
she liked it and he liked it

im cringing so hard as I say this but im an m so its understandable for her to be turned on..

>>18248174
>important context of their relationship?
OP and that girl were almost strangers. Context matters, but "she was ok with it AFTER" is NOT context. He forced himself on her without being given consent. If she was just too shy to give it or something in those lines does not change the fact that consent was not given. What OP did is unquestionably rape

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>>18246949
>>18246980
This. You're not a rapist if she doesn't consider you a rapist senpai. Get rid of that guilt conscience. That will make her think that you are a rapist.

Trust me from experience if you act like something is wrong, even if nothing is wrong, the girl with see that and think that you ARE guilty of something.

Similar experience happened to me except I didnt get some. I stopped when she said stop and had a guilty conscience talked to her apologeticly and she said "she might never forgive what I did" then I was like hold the fuck up I didn't do a damn thing. I stopped when she explicitly said stop. So I met up with her in a public place and the convo went something like this.
Start
>I think you tried to rape me
End
>I fucking missed you dude

This kida shit is grey but some times just like in your case op, it works out.

>>18248187
>unquestionably
I mean... No dog in this particular fight, but just read the thread dude. That's demonstrably false. People are questioning it.

>>18248203
They aren't people, they are robots

>>18248206
>People who don't agree with me aren't human!
Calm down there Adolf.

>>18248091
>So. This is an obvious false equivalence to rape.
Okay, thank god you said that, I was developing a cramp.

I can't bring myself to seriously type the words "hug rape" (just too silly) but my real answer is that it depends on the girl. Girls do exist - and I've dated a few of them - for whom that would absolutely NOT be OK, because for various reasons, past trauma or just their personalities, they're skittish about physical contact and something like that would be genuinely upsetting. In your case your prior relationship counts for a *lot*; you both have an understanding of where the boundaries are and that falls within them. And if, hypothetically, you did it once and it really was unwelcome, it wouldn't be a HUGE deal - a class B misdemeanor, unlike rape, which is a class A felony (speaking metaphorically, though of course that's also literally what it is legally).

cont'd

cont'd

As for the second question, my (unsatisfying) answer again is that it depends on your relationship with the girl. In long term relationships, consent can be implied (i.e. we've had sex hundreds of times and it's NBD) and it can be given ahead of time. Of course, it can also be withdrawn at any time. But on that note, giving/withdrawing consent can be a little different in relationships too - the obvious example would be safewords, where "no" is understood not to mean no, but "dandelion" does mean no.

But even couples that aren't into BDSM and don't use explicit safewords can have tacit understandings like that - "Sweetie, I'd rather not, I'm tired tonight" might not necessarily mean no; it might mean "You can keep trying if you want, but I don't like your odds." Or, it might actually mean no. Depends on the couple.

That's all a lot of unsatisfying verbiage that amounts to "I can't really answer that, it depends too much on the couple." I will say that if there's any doubt, and I mean any doubt at all, as to whether both people are on the same page ... seriously, don't do it. Have an explicit conversation about it so you know where you stand. That isn't directed at you specifically, just at the peanut gallery. It takes five minutes to have a casual conversation about your expectations and boundaries, safewords, etc, and it doesn't have to be awkward at all. It costs nothing, whereas misunderstanding your partner's boundaries even one time can cost everything.

>>18248275
I may have been slightly unclear in this post when I said "depends on the girl" - what I really mean is, it depends on the RELATIONSHIP, which in turn depends on the girl.

The rules are essentially identical for this hypothetical "hug rape" and full-on sex; you still need consent. However, in relationships, the rules for what constitutes consent can be changed, provided both partners are on the same page and are doing so freely (in other words, you need consent to change the rules on consent ... oy).

Although the rules are the same, obviously with the hug the consequences for "breaking the rules" are much less severe, because an unwanted hug is enormously less traumatic than unwanted sex. It's much more OK to be wrong about the hug.

>>18248230
It's a figure of speech, Morty, they are /r9k/ users, I don't respect them