Is this sexual abuse, if not, then what is it?

>>18246786
cont-
This was a big 1980s bathroom, with mirrored siding closet doors. There was no angle at which the shower stall couldn't be seen. She had the entire day to do this shit. When I was sick and couldn't go to school [normally I was forced, but my sister always got to stay in… even if she just didn't feel like going] it became more and more evident that all she did in the daytime was sleep, smoke weed in the bathroom on the toilet/in her bedroom, and watch TV… for 7 hours.

But without fail, she would find that 15 minute shower-time window open to do something in the back bathroom. She wouldn't even knock. I could hear her coming from the sound of the door down the hall that had to be opened to go back there.

She never did that with my sister. I felt really invalidated and just… violated. Does that sound like sexual abuse? If not, is there a specific form of abuse that mirrors this?

>>18246786
>>18246789
She was probably making sure you weren't masturbating, because she was as terrified of and uninformed about sexual abuse as you are. I'd call it abusive in the sense that many things parents do to their children are inherently coercive (such as saying "no" without offering an explanation or alternative), but not outside the bounds of how a reasonable (well, average) parent might choose to raise a child.

Just like everyone that posts on this board, you should see a therapist.

Doesn't seem very sexual. Just a bit odd but not too much honestly.

>>18246811
I'm 27 now, and the last time it happened was when I was maybe either 17 or 22. I don't quite remember when it ended.

Thre were two baths in the old house; a master bath that all this shit happened in, and a smaller front bath with a bath/shower head combo. It was only after my sister moved to her first apartment that the front bathroom was useable.

My sister had claimed it as her own, and she would go nuts if she was inconvenienced for about 10 minutes. Seriously, she would scream and bang on the door for 10 solid minutes, and walk right in anyway if the door was unlocked. But any resistance to that would be met with physical violence. [ei. pushing, punching[ and ear splitting screaming. She was the golden child so she got away with it. If I tried that, she would call the momster, and there would be a sort of ritualized show trial.

Thinking back on this it was extremely demeaning and humiliating.

Anyway, now we live in a different house, and the baths are separate. My sister has a place of her own, but still every time she looks at me, even in passing, something feels fundamentally wrong.

yesterday a weird memory came back to me from a long ass while back;

I remember I was about 6 to 7, and in the back bathroom. she sat on the brown shitting rolling chair she did her makeup on [remember; she didn't wear makeup, and just smoked weed there] and asked "do you know those wrinkles on your *word I'm not comfortable with typing*?"

I said 'yes', and she said "you know what a how hard it is to clean those? Well I had to clean those when you were little, so -"

I think that at that point she said i needed to respect her or something. but seriously, who the fuck says that to a kid?

But the thing that's also weird is that she absolutely hated physical contact with anyone other than my sister. She would hug her maybe once a month, or twice. I have hugged her 3 times in my life - all of them forced via direct demand.

>>18246848
>*word I'm not comfortable with typing*
No seriously, talk to a therapist. She fucked you up good.

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>>18246786

Mmm mmm mmm mmm...

>>18246786
>>18246789
>>18246848
This sounds like your mom was repressing some sexual feelings about you, and I'm not saying what happened to you was right. It's not. There becomes a certain point where children should be allowed a measure of privacy in bathroom activities if for no other reason than to instill a little independence in them. If she were genuinely doing anything else while you showered, if it wasn't a pattern of constant attention, I would say it *might* not have been sexual. But some of the things you say she said, talking about washing your dick and then getting upset, insisting she wasn't watching you (why would she even suspect you thought that? who was she really trying to convince?), make this seem somewhat sexual.

That being said, I'm not sure what you want to do about it. If you want to keep talking about it, go ahead, I'll lurk. If you've got anymore thoughts, I'm curious what you think now that you've realized this is a mild form of mostly benign sexual abuse.

I have no idea if it was sexual or not, but it sounds creepy as fuck regardless. Like fuck, even up to age 16. Sounds like some Black Swan shit.

>>18246860
And in case you misunderstand me, the problem isn't that she made some comment about your anatomy, it's that you're so ashamed of your body you can't bring yourself to type a fucking word on an anonymous Laotian train robbery forum.

>>18246786
Yeah, that's definitely strange. Abusive? I'll say yes, but the thing is she might not have necessarily been doing it to abuse you, or for her own personal gain.

Family members can be super messed up in the head in their own right, and it's possible that when she started she was more concerned with preventing you from drowning, and later one she was more concerned with preventing you from succumbing to the devil's temptation: masturbation. It's also possible that she struggles with OCD and once she started watching you bathe/shower, she Just. Couldn't. Stop.

Or maybe she's a closet pedo and wanted your hawg. Either way ...

As for the question of what type of abuse that is, I think it could be seen as sexual abuse only insofar as it inhibited you from jerking off in the shower which should honestly be everyone's right. What the abuse is more likely is just an abuse of personal boundaries.

But yeah, if you can't even type out "wee wee", you should probably check with a therapist on these things. This could just be the first loose thread of many to come out, but don't worry, you'll be a more complete person by the end.

>>18246874
Doesn't necessarily need to be sexual. It could just be that she was uber-feminist and thought her son was evil and wanted to make sure he always had his mother looking out for him. Could also be she was eerily worried about him committing suicide, and so kept a tight watch on him at all times (although that's a bit of a stretch).

>>18246901
Whether she derived sexual gratification or not, objectifying your child while they're naked and bathing is sexual abuse. It matters very little what she meant when OP has described the way it made him feel as a classical response to sexual abuse.

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Once there was this kid who's...
mom would check out his wiener when in the bathroom
And when he took a shower
she smoked, and pleasured herself after
He couldn't quite explain it
She'd always just done that

Mmm mmm mmm mmm... mmm mmm mmm mmm...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JzhfSIZ7eY

>>18246912
>classical response to sexual abuse.
There are no symptoms of sexual abuse; all of the symptoms are caused by your normal, everyday, run-of-the-mill physical, verbal, and emotional abuse. There's no evil penis magic that makes everything worse when sex is involved. It's also why there's a substantial number of "CSA victims" who are asymptomatic: there was no physical, verbal, or emotional abuse involved (I.e. it was voluntary by both parties despite the fact that it can't be considered consensual due to a quirk of legal definition).

Source: Rind, et al 1998

>>18246963
>quotes source
>has no source

That's not how sources work anon. And if you're going to sit there and say that sexual abuse has no symptoms outside of other forms of abuse, then it's entirely reasonable that if the OP were experiencing ANY kind of abuse (psychological or otherwise) then he would have abuse reactions. His reaction to this long and systemic impediment to his privacy in the bathroom is a classic reaction to abuse. Just because it's not blatantly obvious or genuinely physical abuse does not mean he isn't experiencing abuse. You are being harmful in this discussion by marginalizing the OP's feelings about what happened to him. Basically trying to tell him to suck it up because nothing really happened. Please don't ever try to counsel professionally.

>>18246969
I provided a source, just not a link. You can Google it, I believe in you.

And no, I'm not saying OP isn't experiencing symptoms of abuse. He's lived his entire life in a panopticon with zero expectation of privacy. This is some straight up Nazi science shit right here.

What I'm saying is that your phrasing reflects an outdated mode of thinking that actually promotes abuse. This is the third thread in as many days in which anons have claimed or implied to have been raped by their mothers based on a broad set of symptoms that only loosely correlates with rape.

>>18247016
Rape is always sexual abuse. Not all sexual abuse is rape. I'm not even sure why you're trotting that point out, OP didn't say he was raped. Is this really that difficult for you and whatever supposed specialists you're parroting to wrap your heads around? Is the only mode of sexual abuse actual physical sexual acts? In what way does categorizing things as sexual abuse actually enable abuse?

Please let me know, I'm genuinely curious whether you're just misguided or the worst kind of pseudo-intellectual trash.

>>18247037
OP's mom didn't fuck him up by washing his asshole when he was six months old, she fucked him up by playing mind games on him for two decades. Focusing on an undefined sexual aspect distracts from the real issue at hand, and contributes to stuff like >>18246811 (attempts to prevent ""self-abuse"" could easily result in a situation just like OP's), emotional abuse by avoiding physical contact (which is extremely important for infants and young children) by parents terrified of scarring their children for life by parents afraid of seeming like they're enjoying themselves too much, all sorts of problems caused by parents not allowing their children to go out by themselves due to hysteria about child molesters (in fact, children are orders of magnitude more likely to be raped by family members, and by cooping up children in the house you're exposing them even more to other forms of abuse), and all sorts of other problems.

Defining things in terms of sexual abuse adds nothing that couldn't be better explained in the context of physical or emotional abuse, and pathologizes things that are natural and part of normal human development, such as masturbation (at all ages) and sex (especially between minors during or after puberty).

>>18247106
Those are valid points and I hadn't considered it like that. I still maintain forcibly watching your child bathe has a sexual component to it, but in the broader terms of actual abuse it does detract from the argument overall. Plus, I'm all for normalizing sex at all ages. I don't think it's good to punish or stifle young people's sexuality.

Sorry for being a shit. Average stance for a 4chan argument.

>>18246811
This sounds about right. OP's mother was being paranoid about the sins he'd get up to in the bath. That probably showed in other areas (Did it, OP?) like monitoring his social life.

It doesn't qualify as sexual abuse, but it can be a legitimate fucking-up-your-kids parental neurosis, that might affect OP with an extreme sense of guilt or sinfulness, which a herapist could help with.

>>18247119
Yes, there's a sexual aspect to it in the sense that we've tied nudity to sexuality in most of the modern Western world. That hasn't actually been the norm in practically any other place or time in human history, though. The only relationship between the two is that it's more difficult (though not impossible) to have sex while clothed. It's the same relationship as drinking my coffee and driving to work in the morning.

The main problem here as I see it, is the denial of privacy, which is one of the most basic human rights, as well as the disempowerment of having his protestations disregarded and the constant dread of expectation. That's all the evidence you need to explain all of OP's problems and more.

Thank you for keeping an open mind and being willing to modify your beliefs to account for opposing viewpoints. It's a breath of fresh air here. Normally I futilely engage these arguments in the hope that I can make some people realize that there's even another side to this argument, and it's not a bunch of autists demanding to legalize violent rape.

>>18247145
>The main problem here as I see it, is the denial of privacy, which is one of the most basic human rights, as well as the disempowerment of having his protestations disregarded and the constant dread of expectation. That's all the evidence you need to explain all of OP's problems and more.
Totally agree. My only contention was arguing that it's not a sexual sort of abuse, because there's no way it isn't to some degree, but I also agree with the reasons you gave for ignoring that label.

I find /adv/ to really be the only place anyone goes where you can find a fruitful semi-intelligent argument. Most of the people here are either in trouble or wanting to help, it takes a certain kind of person to be the latter. Talking with these sorts (you) isn't so bad most of the time.

>>18247145
>>18247135
>>18247147

OP again - The thing of it is that she wasn't a prude - she just invasive, and insane.

She kept a cigar box in her room, which had the only pair of scissors in the house so in order to use them they had to be asked for. They were kept next to the cigar box, which would shift from her room to the bathroom, to the kitchen. It was only when I was 13 that my dad explained to me that she kept her weed in it and that she had been fired from 5 different clinics/hospitals/nursing homes for stealing meds and trading them with her sisters. This was pre-internet days, so I thought it was just tobacco.

I also learned her friends we [my sister and I] were forced to visit twice a week were also her drug dealers, who were very nice people, but they would call all the fucking time. She claimed that her friend wanted to go shopping and that I was not to answer the phone, but in reality she was dodging them due to owing a shit ton of money. She would bring in hundres of dollars of worthless shit every week. Wine no one was allowed to drink because it was for collecting ($3 pink zinfandel at walmart). Vinegar no one was allowed to open because it was decorative. Even a $10 clothingless doll she got at a goodwill because she said my goth sister would like it. It went into the trash 12 hours after purchase.

She was never shy about saying semi-sexual things. Once she called her brother a 'stud muffin' [wtf?] while looking through old photos, and once while pumping gas she told my sister about a time when she was little; she was at a gas station, her mother had warned her about strange men. Her father opened up the back door for some reason, and she freaked out and scream, "He's trying to get my p*ssy!"

I'm about 99% sure that no one fucking says shit like that to kids. Do they?

>>18246939

Just buetiful.

Magnificent

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>>18248506
Thank you, thank you... OP's story just fit the song so naturally, I couldn't resist.

>>18246786
On a more serious note, OP...

I'm also 27, I also grew up in the shadow of an older sister, with no brothers, and no real father figure. My mother didn't have any sexual interest in me, thankfully... but she sure loved to fill my brain with liberal feminist nonsense, which for years completely fucked my life up. Is that abuse? Yeah... kinda. But, good luck doing anything about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I625zPMQ4r4

I had similar experiences and frankly it ruined my life. I don't know if I'll ever recover.