HOW DO I STOP BEING SO AUTISTIC WITH WOMEN

The other part of this is that, I'm kinda a kissless no-friend virgin who just started making an effort to get numbers, go on dates, make friends, etc. But I feel like the difference in social experience starts to show after a while. Like, we got into a conversation about sex, and she was really candid about it, while I was like a shy debutante. She started talking about funny stories about her and her friends, having naked parties, getting lit, going to outdoor festivals, and I'm like, I have nothing to add to stories about doing normal fun human things.

I don't make known that I have no friends, that I'm a virgin, that I've never even had a girlfriend, that I started dating literally within the last year at age 22. You need friends to make friends, so I try to pretend I'm already social and hope that she already likes me by the time she finds out about the parts of me I don't lead with. But I feel like it comes through in my behaviour. I don't know how to make moves. Never kiss my dates. Barely flirt or touch them. Don't know how to respond to certain things. Don't even know what to order at bars because I haven't been to them enough to know shit about drinks (barely know the difference between whiskey and rum). How long until they see I'm not the confident "fun" guy I pretended to be for five minutes when I approached them and asked for their numbers?

>>18246682
I don't know if it will be much of help, but I think that the key-point were this
>I kinda knew being out of my element might be a bad idea, but I went against my better judgement...

I don't really know if decline the invitation would be the better out but still, accepting only made it worse, so if see yourself in this kind of situation again, you know what not to do.

>>18246682
Stop caring so much about how you're acting. Just be a fun person.

Everybody is too busy inside of their heads to notice what you're doing. They will notice if you're being negative/passive though.

Girls react to positive energy. If you are being fun and helping them enjoy themselves, they'll be attracted to you.

>>18246710
>I don't really know if decline the invitation would be the better out but still, accepting only made it worse, so if see yourself in this kind of situation again, you know what not to do.

That's true. It's a learning experience. Trial and error. My recent dates have certainly gone better than my first few.

I think it would have been better to decline. I mean, I had just spent hours with her on a date, it would have been perfectly reasonable to have a reason not to meet her again in a couple hours to hang out with her friend. It's the scarcity principle. I would have looked busier, like I have a life outside of her, and it would have reversed the dynamic of the guy trying to get the girl to hang out with him. And when we did eventually see each other again, maybe the next week or whatever, I could look fun by doing something that we both have fun doing, rather than being a fish in the Sahara.

>>18246712
Yeah, I don't know how to be more carefree. Like, I literally couldn't bring myself to dance properly because I was like "what if I look stupid?" but being autistic and standing around when everyone is dancing looks way stupider than just dancing badly and having fun. I've never known how to let loose in contexts that I'm not comfortable in. I have to go into everything with a plan, research what is expected, so I don't get blindsided.

I guess I just showed her that I'm not the kind of guy who can just forget himself and be spontaneous and have fun even if he's trying something new. It would show confidence to go to a dance hall when I've never danced before, but not be autistic about it.

I also don't know how to escalate things and be flirty on a date.

The date I went on this morning with a different girl, I was kind of thinking about how I fucked up last night by never going for a kiss or making a move, so I tried to be flirtier with this one, but I think I fucked up. I think the little comments I made came off as creepy and lecherous rather than sexy.

Like, we were taking photos because we're both interested in learning film photography and I suggested taking a walk around town and photographing shit, and she wanted to take a photo of me and was like, "can you take off your jacket? I like your shirt." I responded with, "I'll take off anything you ask me to." I dunno, I think it was more cringy than winky-facey.

Earlier in the date, since I was late (the second time in a row with this girl), I was like, "I suppose you'll have to think up some punishment for me." She was like, "oh no, that's okay," and I responded with "drats, I was trying to use reverse-psychology to try and get you to do something fun to me." Again, I think that was gross rather than cute.

It's like, I go all these dates playing it too safe and never going into flirty territory, and then when I finally try, I'm just that creepy guy.

>>18246750
>>18246705

How are you a KV but going on dates with different girls every day of the week.

>>18246750
>"I'll take off anything you ask me to."
Witty and good.

>"drats, I was trying to use reverse-psychology to try and get you to do something fun to me."
Pretty cringey and creepy.

>>18246682
You suffer from what I call "Nice Guy syndrome" You are way too concerned with pleasing others than you are with your own needs. If you didn't want to go to the reggae club you didn't have to go, you should have told her, but you want to keep this facade up of being a people pleaser when deep down half the things you do inconvenience you.

She would have respected you more if you told her you didn't want to go, instead of being a push-over and going then essentially ruining the night. Also people who get on the dance-floor and do nothing but stand around and look at their phones irk me to no end. You don't need to be a pro-dancer but don't just stand there, sway around if you have to, don't worry if you look stupid, seriously no one cares or will remember your dance skills in a club full of people you don't know.

>She started talking about funny stories about her and her friends, having naked parties, getting lit, going to outdoor festivals, and I'm like, I have nothing to add to stories about doing normal fun human things.

These don't sound like normal stories at all. You on the other hand need to start doing things you enjoy more so you can have your own stories to do.

>>18246768
I just really pushed myself to make a change a few months back. Part of it is that I'm on meds now. Part of it is just effort. I realized that I'm near the end of my degree and never made friends in school, so I made it a goal to be more social and make university friends, because it'll be harder to meet folks once I'm out of this environment and working. Also made an effort to start approaching girls, chatting them up, and getting numbers. It's a numbers game, most of the numbers you get won't turn into dates, but if you keep at it enough, you're bound to get some. It gets easier the more you do it, because you learn not to fear rejection because it's honestly not the worst thing that could happen to you. Sometimes it still goes really badly and awkward and I totally embarrass myself in front of a girl, but instead of it being the end of the world, it's just something I can look back at myself about.

I guess I've only gone out with a few women since I started doing this, but I'm so timid that I've still never even kissed a girl yet. In fact, never even held hands.

Get your mother to act like a decent mother but you'll have to go back in time. Either that or you're genes

>>18246772
It's funny, because she seemed to be more comfortable with the creepier one. But I felt like both of them were kinda like... you know that kinda fake uncomfortable laughter you do to be polite?

She still seems interested enough to see me again, so at least I have another shot and can turn it down a notch next time, try to read the moments better, and only escalate at high points in the date instead of just trying to slip some things wherever I can to meet some flirt quota because I'm worried about not flirting enough.

>>18246792
I swayed around for a little bit, but I dunno, you kind of just sway when you watch music in general, even with bands. But it's still different from actual dancing during a DJ set. I looked like I was listening to Low while folks were getting low.

Yeah, I think I am way too much of a nice guy, but my thought process was honestly not even "I should go to make her happy." Maybe it was subconsciously, but I was more thinking, "I'd like to spend time with her, and I don't mind checking out stuff that isn't my scene because I'm open minded, but I am worried that I'll look lame."

Even when she told me "you look like you're not having fun, you don't have to stay," it was like, I hadn't even thought of that. I wasn't thinking "I can't wait until this is over because I want to go home" the entire time, because it never even occurred to me that I could just totally go home and there was no reason for me to be there. Like, I was just on auto-pilot or something, I dunno. Or autism-pilot.

Yeah, she does seem to be a free spirit who goes on crazy adventures, experiments with drugs, is super candid about things like sex, travels a lot, and I'm like... never been out of my country, I smoke a joint or drop acid now and then but never get crazy, hardly even drink and have been drunk few enough times to count on one hand, etc. I'm basically really sheltered and inexperienced because I never had the opportunity to do anything social.

>>18246847
>Either that or you're genes

But i don't want to be genes. I barely know how to work an excel spreadsheet, let alone code.

>>18246867
Plus genes are alive

Which you do not wish to

>>18246837
>>18246682
Good on you that you made such an effort to change. But since you feel so inadequate sexually and socially why don't you just do the "crazy" things she told you about?
>>18246862
>>18246750

Your idea of flirting is strange desu. You aren't there to please girls. Girls can sense that shit and if they do they can be pretty mean. I can't judge whether the stuff you said was creepy or she's just a boring person but remember it's mostly how you say it than what.
To capitalize on this, I approached this gorgeous girl at a supermarket the other day. Not long after talking I came to the subject of her naked body and in a giggly voice she said: " I'd show you my boobs but not here"
My point is: you can say the most outrageous stuff if you don't care what she'll think and you're not being all secretive about your sexual thoughts

>>18247173
>why don't you just do the "crazy" things she told you about?

I don't really know how I'd go about it. It's kinda like when my sister would say things like "are you going to see this new movie that's playing?" or "hey, why don't you go on a road trip?" and I'd wonder why she would ask me those things when she knows that the answer is "no," because I have no friends. Like, am I going to go to a theatre alone? Whose car would I take a road trip in? (I couldn't even go alone cuz I don't drive).

That's what most experiences are like for me. Normal things people do, like going to visit the mountains, camping, going to a restaurant, I don't get to do those things. Much less things that are more adventurous and less normal than those things.

>>18247173
>My point is: you can say the most outrageous stuff if you don't care what she'll think and you're not being all secretive about your sexual thoughts

I don't fully understand the weirdness of my idea of flirting. I thought flirtation was to signal your interest, build casual rapport, and to make the other person more likely to be interested by arousing them. But at the same time, you can't be a pig. Is that different from how most people see flirting?

>>18246682
>There were times when she'd bump her ass against me, and I'd just kind of stand there not knowing what to do. I don't know where I'm supposed to look during a DJ set. Like, do I stare at the DJ?
sounds like you were far too self concious/insecure to enjoy the night. she made a clear escalation and you were focused on where your eyes should have been? (tip: you can watch the DJ but you should be watching your friends if you're dancing with them)
i'm sure she would've been happy to teach you how to dance or whatever if you'd asked

i understand the struggle you're going through and it really does fucking suck because there's no easy way through it without moments like this. the key is not to get stuck thinking over and over about the embarassment and replace it with thoughts of genuine self love (meditation helps a lot)

>>18247481
>I thought flirtation was to signal your interest
yes, how is pretending you don't wanna kiss and hold her close signaling interest?
But to be honest you sound kinda boring yourself. Is it that you're too awkward to have fun in front of people or is it that you can't have fun period? I'd be more concerned about that than women- your success with chicks is just a reflection of yourself

>>18247525
>yes, how is pretending you don't wanna kiss and hold her close signaling interest?

I don't think that pretending you don't want to do something and not being comfortable enough to express wanting to do something are the same. It's not like I'm thinking, "what can I do to make her not think I like her?"

I mean, that is exactly my problem... that I don't know how to flirt and can't do it. Not that I don't understand what the concept of flirting is. This is why I'm asking how to stop being autistic with women.

>But to be honest you sound kinda boring yourself. Is it that you're too awkward to have fun in front of people or is it that you can't have fun period?

It kinda depends... I am definitely too awkward to let my guard down in front of people. People who know me well always tell me I'm funny and smart (I don't think I'm smart, I think I just have an armchair interest in a lot of different areas and like to talk about them, but I'm not an expert in any of them), but it's always a long time before I'm comfortable enough with somebody to be myself. When I do get comfortable, I can get in long engaging conversations about physics, psychology, philosophy, politics, art, and generally like to talk to different people about this stuff and expose myself to viewpoints I haven't thought of. So, I can be a good conversationalist sometimes. But when it comes to things like just drinking and dancing and having a good time... yeah I can't into that.

>>18247485

Yeah, I am probably the most awkward, self-conscious, insecure person on the planet. Used to be worse, too. My social anxiety used to be so bad that I couldn't eat in public (what if I get food on my face and people think I'm gross?).

Part of me wants to just kinda apologize to this girl for being an anxious neurotic mess and explain that I wasn't trying to be standoffish, but the worst thing I could possibly do would be to turn her off even more my vomiting all my hang-ups onto her and looking even more pathetic. I guess the best thing is to just ignore the whole episode and not swell on it and hope that I haven't already done enough damage that she's second-guessing going out with me.

>>18247724
>>18247711
it sounds like you need therapy, my man. In yurope it's free.
I used to know these feels as well. What really helped was not being afraid to make mistakes ( and you're bound 2) and getting the pressure off yourself trying to please people. It's really quite simple: either you click with someone or you don't. Yeah it sucks in the beginning but after a while your "circle of concern" tightens.
Honestly I wish someone would have told me this shit earlier

>>18247825
>>18247724
oh, and don't apologize. What for? Just say it like it is, faggot: you don't like dancing cause you feel awkward. She'll think you're quirky and probably laugh.
See what you I did there?

>>18247826
not op

this is a great piece of advice, man

>>18246682

Naked parties aren't a "normal" thing
unless you're a hoe. She honestly sounds way too wild for someone like you imo. There are plenty of normal nice girls looking for bfs out there.

You can meet a bunch of different people in places like dance clubs but they're often the most childish people and unreliable friends.
I ended up with a ton of acquaintances that would be there for the food or alcohol but otherwise absent emotionally. And the sex scene in those places is sleezy at best. I imagine if anything she might see your innocence as a fetish so she will likely use you until she gets bored and dance her ass back to the club to find herself another man to toy with.

I feel like you dodged a bullet, only because I've known too many basic bitches not to see the signs. You can do better than that op. But hey, it's your choice. Just don't forget a condom.

>>18247870
It's funny, my initial impression wasn't that she was too "wild" for me, but that she is too... I dunno, driven or something.

Like, she's a bartender/server, so she works sometimes 50-hour weeks, 15-hour shifts, all the shitty labour practices that come with working in the bar industry. On top of that, she seems to be an achieving student, and is engaged in a million extracurriculars in administrative positions and shit.

I literally only have one of those things (being a good student, tend to make dean's list). Otherwise, I work 16-24 hours a week at a grocery store, and have never fucked with extracurricular shit because school and work drain me so much that I barely even engage in hobbies anymore, much less take on additional committments.

I asked her what she wants to do after she graduates, and she said that first she wants to get a couple jobs and just save up money working like crazy. For me, even the prospect of working some 9-5 office job depresses me. I kind of intend to be a career academic because I just like studying things. Doing shit I'm not passionate about just because the money's good, that sounds soul-killing to me.

Yeah, I was wondering if I'm just an innocent novelty that she will soon grow tired of and ditch for a guy with some actual gravitas. She seems sincere and authentic to me, so I'm willing to see how things turn out. Not too emotionally invested. I like her, but I'm still trying to date other girls. I also like that other girl I took out the next morning (though there's sketchy shit about her, too... that'll be another post!)

>>18248403
Okay, might as well talk about the other girl, too.

I've already made a thread about her (maybe some of you guys have seen it and don' know that's also me) because some weird shit happened.
Part one: http://archive.4plebs.org/adv/thread/18187413/
Part two: http://archive.4plebs.org/adv/thread/18236653/#q18236657

This girl, it's hard to say, but I think I'm leaning toward her more-so than naked-party-bartender girl. She's in uni doing Econ, but she hated it, and just dropped out because she actually wants to go to art school and be a tattoo artist. She was talking about how she doesn't care if her job isn't something that'll impress other people, and that "do what you love" thing resonated with me.

I guess the other wrinkle that I didn't have space to talk about is that, this second date, I don't even know if it was a date. After the boyfriend comment, he never came up again. I tested the waters a bit, though. She made a joke about how mad her parents will be when they find out she dropped out and is also moving out (already signed her lease), and she was like, "I should add that the guy I'm dating just got out of prison." I responded with, "hey, I'm ALMOST off parole!" She didn't say anything like... "uh... we're not dating, anon..." so I don't know if that was a sign? And she seemed stoked to see me again next week, I feel like she would have been less enthusiastic if she was thinking "oh god this guy thinks this is a date, how do I let him know I'm not into him?"

So basically I suck at communication and am drawn to girls who are kinda out there? An earlier girl I took out was a "nice girl," but we had zero chemistry and she broke things off and I think she made the right call.

>>18248425
I dunno, I just want a girl who will toke with me, but not expect me to do things like dance (it's totally cool if she likes doing that with her other friends, though), will do things like go to art galleries and wine tastings and the science center with me, but will also have those days where we just stay in and make pizza and then watch a movie while cuddling. Someone who'll talk about art and science and culture, trade dry, sardonic banter with me. Somebody who also has her own life going on and her own passions and projects, so that even though we're partners in crime, we're not one of those weird gross couples who are joined at the hip and can't function independently.

I think that was part of what excited me about tattoo-artist girl. Like, she's so passionate about her art. It'd just be cool to be with somebody who has a "thing" going on, and I have a "thing" going on (probably research and publishing, and maybe some music on the side), and we support each other and are involved with each other, but are still different people.

I wanted to see if she's into toking by offering her one, but she had to work directly after our... maybe-a-date, so I just thought nah I'll ask her when she doesn't have anything important to do afterward.

I guess I kinda like how bartender girl is into drugs. I only really do the occasional weed and LSD even less often, but am interested in other psychedelics, and she seems experienced with drugs like shrooms and MDMA... and of course, being in the restaurant industry, I'm guessing she's come into contact with coke, but even though that's an "I'd try that once" thing, I don't see myself wanting to be a regular user. I like soft drugs.

Okay I'm just blogging now

Hey guys, need advice on a text I was going to send to tattoo girl. I don't know if it's autistic or not.

So on our last maybe-a-date thing, she met me at this board game cafe and showed me how to play Pandemic.

I was thinking of sending something about how we should infect each other with our pathogens again sometime soon. But I don't know if she'd get that I mean that as a reference to kissing, or if it'd sound weird because she'd assume I mean venereal diseases or something.

>>18249341
Yeah op do it