Identity Draft: Open discussion

>>18226903
>Asians
Who are you classifying as Asian? Eastern Asians, or 'brown' Asians as well?

>>18226914
My bad. I really should have specified. I'm talking mostly Korean/Japanese girls, in general, but especially the fob ones.

Thai/Filipina chicks love the white dick.

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>>18226903
/adv/ is a slow board. These shitty non-advice threads have no purposes here. Also nice spacing lmao.

>>18227069
If "ask the opposite gender" anything has a place, so does this.

>>18226903
Why do you think the way black people dress can be best described as "thug"?

The label came after the style.

Muslim girls:
Are you circumcised? Is it something that must be done to all muslim girls? If you answer say where you're from, so I can get an idea. I just read about this recently and I'm curious.

White people: why does your food have no flavour?

white agnostic 18 y/o female here

feminists: why is feminism still a thing? as a girl in the US i know that we have the same rights as our male counterparts. the wage gap doesn't exist. feminism is needed in places where women are still oppressed but not in america. what are you trying to prove? i just feel like it's embarrassing women as a whole.


black people: why blame the white man for your problems? i have to pay full price for college and you get it at a discount because of affirmative action plus other things. in my opinion, black people are better off than white people. i don't get why so many ignorantly jump on the "blame the white man" wagon. it's honestly making me want to move to australia at this point. why are most of you so ignorant?

>>18226903
>Male, heterosexual, no idea what fuck the rest of the shit you listed is, mixed-Mexican Korean in the US

>Hispanic people: why do you seamlessly switch into private conversations in Spanish while there's people present who you know don't speak the language. Do you not think you're being rude?

Because it's just more familiar. Like you're so used to speaking that way sometimes you just don't even realize you're doing it. This isn't limited to just Hispanics FYI, ask this about any other people in any nation that is multilingual but the culture is prodominantly of one type so words get mashed together (PS in case you didn't know English might be the primary language in the us, but it is NOT the official language)

>Hispanic people: why is your food so much better than everyone else's? A food truck taco has no right to put fine dining to shame, but it does. Every time.

It's called soul food my friend. Why the fuck are mac and cheese and mashed potatoes so fucking awesome? Because it's shit for your body but all the slow cooked butter/fatty shit/whatever feels so fucking good in your mouth and in your soul.

>Asains: Why are you so reluctant to date outside your race?
Either because racism, because natuonalism/xenophobia, or because of community,

Almost all Asian cultures are VERY tight, and when they immigrate they tend to form their own small communities and stick within them to keep their own traditions and cultural comfort alive.

My mom, for example, basically got kicked out of her family for marrying my dad, because they looked down on him as a Mexican, because she couldn't raise her son (me) as Korean, and because it felt like she was snubbing them as a community .

Kind of funny, my mom married out of her race, but she's still pretty racist.

anyway, that's a basic idea of why (too lazy to type more ATM)


>questions
Don't really have any.

>>18227233
my dad is from georgia but i live in the midwest. my dad makes our food and chicken with tons of spice and stuff. it's definitely a stereotype

>>18227184
Regardless of the chicken or egg argument, they could lose the look to improve their lot. It's not just the clothing, it's the attitude and culture that's designed to come off as intimidating, imposing, ignorant, and disdainful of authority.

Harris and Klebold weren't the first kids to rock trench coats, and Hitler didn't pioneer that mustache, but images carry emotions.

>>18227233
Clearly you've never had traditional European or Mediterranean cooking. We don't drown out shit in salt and fat, if that's what you mean.

>>18227240
>the wage gap doesn't exist
No, but the OT hours worked, hazard pay, and high risk occupation gap sure as shit does, which is why men tend to make more than women, but feminists don't like to talk about that.

>>18227243
>Because it's just more familiar
Well, I lived in Germany for three years, and in Europe at least a serious effort is made to keep the language spoken to one everyone present can understand. Just having side conversations in a different language is considered extremely rude.

>PS in case you didn't know English might be the primary language in the us, but it is NOT the official language
Not that it matters but something tells me this is going to change some time in the next four years. Americans are tired of being tolerant to the point of our own culture eroding; the whole "masses of immigrants with zero intention of assimilation" thing is getting old, fast.

>It's called soul food my friend
Latin food isn't soul food, and most of the Mexican food I've had is very lean, healthy, and fresh. It's why I like it.

>Re: Asians
Thanks for the insights. I don't really understand acting that way in a foreign country though, if you want to be around Korean culture why not just stay in Korea? I eventually plan on moving to Thailand, but that's because I love and plan on embracing Thai culture, I don't just plan on doing the cliché expatriate thing (which is pretty fucked up, IMHO)

>>18227233

so tired of this meme... its not even well thought out or funny.. its desperate

>>18227341
Why are white people so easily offended?

>>18227346

I'm not offended, I'm just annoyed you can't come up with anything better

its like white people saying all black people like fried chicken and watermelon, its just pure cringe

>>18227346
Why are minorities so resentful of white people? Is it just envy? Sorry you ape-faced dregs somehow managed to be 90% of the world's population whilst only contribution 1% to the sum of humanity's knowledge, innovation, and art.

Whites and east Asians are getting. shit. done.

>>18227353
I've never understood that stereotype either; fucking everyone likes fried chicken. Although, I think it's not what they eat, but how they eat; they don't just eat fried chicken and watermelon, they eat it whilst congregated on their porch, vacantly staring at you as you drive by, each kid wearing a diaper, regardless of age, with a perfect booger hanging from their right nostril.

>Who I am
Agender aroace feminist anarcho-communist agnostic multiracial AFAB with depression and General Anxiety Disorder (and suspicions of Asperger's) who lives in a Latinamerican country and is teetering on the poverty line

>My questions
To anyone who concerns: how does it feel like, to belong? To not have such a wrong existence as my own? I bet it must feel good.

To people with wombs who want to have children: Not really a question, but I admire your bravery to bring a child to such an awful world.

To the thinkers out there: if there are right and wrong ways to live, is all human life indeed precious, or are some human beings worthless enough that they should die, and would actually help the world by doing so? And if there are worthless human beings, why lie to them saying life is beautiful and worth living when in their case, it just isn't?

To the edgelords: where can I find cheap, not too painful and guaranteed ways to die? Helium canisters are absurdly expensive in the banana republic where I live and doing the thing with the carbon monoxide and a car definitely isn't an option, either.

>>18227233
I'm from Europe and my food tastes great.

>>18226903
>How can you support Islam, the most patriarchal and misogynistic ideology on the planet, whilst claiming to want to "smash the patriarchy?"
How many people actually do that? I'd consider myself a feminist and support Islam the same I support any other religion aka. we have religious freedoms and if one group wants to believe in their skywizard, it'd be insane to discriminate against another group who wants to do the same.

>How is the hijab not a symbol of female oppression?
How is it? It's meant to protect the females from male attention, which probably has some roots in insecure men who are scared of other men looking at their wifes but you can say that about most clothing. Assuming we talk about hijab in the first world where it's a choice and not the cancer in Saudi Arabia and the likes.

>>18227208
>>18227233
Nigga what?

>>18227240
>we have the same rights as our male counterparts
Legally mostly yes.

> the wage gap doesn't exist
Yes it does. Often not initially but women are often discouraged from attempting to get a promotion and are less likely to get one, their attempts to negotiate higher wage are less successful, etc, etc
Wage gap is more complex than "burger flipper with a dick gets 10 bucks and burger flipper with a vagina gets 7 or male lawyer gets 200k while female nurse gets 20k"

>feminism is needed in places where women are still oppressed but not in america
Look how many women in power you have, how your reproduction rights is regulated by couple old men, how men/women doing the same thing in the media gets painted in completely different right based on the gender alone, how common sexual harassment against women is ... and there is the whole gig how "feminine" traits are portrayed as worse/weak and so on.

Either you grew up in a really progressive surrounding or just got used to this shit.

>black people: why blame the white man for your problems?
It's less "white man" and more "system created by white man for white man" although if you don't notice how fucked niggers are by the system and focus on few balance attempts, you clearly never read much about the topic. Explaining that would be way bigger than this thread allows.

>>18227346
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
Business owners were offended by the working class demanding basic rights, so it's not really white centric.

>>18228168
>Who you are
Nigga I don't think there's an acronym for people like you.

>How does it feel to belong
Fuck. I wish I knew. I'm like 10 degrees off normal, I'm good enough at faking it to form relationships and I'm pretty damn charming, but I never feel secure in anything or am able to really trust anyone.

>but I admire your bravery to bring a child to such an awful world
Dude. Shut the fuck up. The world is actually better now than it's ever been, standard of living is at an all time high, violence is at an all time low; the problem is with the internet and social media we live in a world where everyone is constantly outraged about everything, regardless of how much it effects them. We're not designed to be constantly concerned and angry about shit. Try prioritizing your fucks given based on how close something is to your immediate life. A good example: what's your opinion of Trump? Trick question, you shouldn't have a strong opinion of him either way because he's not your president and Latin America is at the bottom of his list of shit he's concerned about.

>Re: the value of human life
I mean, a doctor working for an answer to cancer or multiple sclerosis is worth more than a heroin junkie. That's not open for debate. But in general? I think life is precious, and as long as someone wants to do better they should always have a path for redemption open to them; society tends to create it's own monsters by giving first time offenders no recourse and zero chance at normalcy.

>suicide
As bad as your life is, non-existence is probably much, much worse. Anxiety is a bitch, I get it, 95% of the time I'm freaking out about something I have zero control over, but don't give up.

>>18228168
>if there are right and wrong ways to live
Nope but there are ways that are better for most people involved and ways that are harmful for most involved.

>is all human life indeed precious
Based on the last answer, yes.

>and would actually help the world by doing so?
The amount of resources to keep a human alive is ridiculously low, so there isn't much of a benefit in them dying. The benefit of them living is harder to quantify and pretty complex, fast and easy answer is that even some fuckup who seems worthless might inspire others to try harder.

>>18228218
>we have religious freedoms and if one group wants to believe in their skywizard, it'd be insane to discriminate against another group who wants to do the same
First, "religious freedom" is one of the biggest oxymorons there is; 99% of people who identify as a follower of an Abrahamic religion do so because it's what their parents indoctrinated them to believe when they were too young to be capable of thinking critically. I should know, I was raised Baptist, and while I identify as an agnostic, when I'm scared or under duress I sometimes find myself talking to god because that's how I was programmed.

Second, Islam tends to have a toxic influence upon societies in which it's allowed to thrive, and because it's associated with brown people, it's not acceptable to call them on the shit aspects of their religion. Case in point, nobody gives Christians a free pass on homophobia, but here you are making excuses for female oppression because it's tied to Islam.

>It's meant to protect the females from male attention
The idea that women need protection from male attention is a problem, and it's tied to women literally being regarded as property.

>but you can say that about most clothing
Most clothing is worn for functional, ceremonial, or aesthetic purpose.

>hijab in the first world where it's a choice
Does a woman really have a choice if her parents will harass, threaten, possibly assault her if she doesn't wear it? How many Muslims do you actually know? How familiar with their culture are you?

>>18228221
The Trump example would work for most world leaders but not the one of the second biggest economy in the world. Besides, US of A tends to love meddling in South American policies, and his position on climate change is bound to affect everyone.

Not like caring about it makes much of a difference for the orange clown of course.

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>>18228220
Bitch you are spinning me out.

>women are often discouraged from attempting to get a promotion and are less likely to get one
Where I work I'd say it's the opposite, actually. A woman who is generally regarded as the laziest person in the building just got promoted for showing up for two years and having a vagina. This isn't unusual.

You're also not taking into account how women are generally held to a lower standard to men, and female preferential treatment in general.

And again, what about the overtime hours worked gap, the hazard pay gap, the high risk occupation gap?

>how your reproduction rights is regulated by couple old men
Tell you what, I'd be 100% on board with women having total reproductive agency... if you also abolish alimony and child support.

>how men/women doing the same thing in the media gets painted in completely different right based on the gender alone
You're acting like women never benefit from this.

Feminists claim to want equality, but it's only equality of power than interests you; you have zero interest in equality of accountability or responsibility. A stellar example of this is, in the US, feminists petitioned for, and got, the ok for women to serve in any military occupation, including combat arms... and these same feminists are vehemently opposed to women now being eligible for the draft.

True equality means giving up preferential treatment in social and legal terms, in no longer being the protected sex, in your feelings no longer being sacred, it means your life no longer being regarded as inherently more valuable than that of a man, and none of you seem to be on board with that; equality isn't something you can just opt out of.

>>18228235
>Most clothing is worn for functional, ceremonial, or aesthetic purpose.

Dunno, dude. I'm pretty darn sure that even if the most aesthetically pleasing woman in the world paraded around naked, she'd be arrested for indecent exposure. Clothes are also required by law.
I'm not Muslim, but I think the hijab thing is just a small expansion of that requirement. Think about guys with foreskin and guys without foreskin; some guys are required to not have foreskin, be it for religious or health-wise reasons. With the hijab, it's probably about the same thing.

By the way, do muslim dudes even circumcise? I know Jewish dudes and even some Orthodox Christians do, but now I'm curious about it.

>>18228236
>Besides, US of A tends to love meddling in South American policies
Trump doesn't seem to pay SA much mind.

>Not like caring about it makes much of a difference
First of all, liberals need to wrap their head around the fact that this is exactly why a lot of people voted for him. Second, this again proves my point. Prioritize fucks accordingly.

>his position on climate change is bound to affect everyone.
Après nous, le deluge. It's unfortunate, and something to be addressed, but it's not an immediate, in your face concern. Again, prioritize fucks accordingly.


>orange clown
Just remember two things. 1: Hillary would have been worse. 2: What his being elected symbolizes is much more important than the man himself.

>>18228243
You're justifying law with oppression, instead of understanding the reason why decent exposure is illegal. It's offensive to some people. It's not about oppressing the person going around naked but more about not making the people who have to see her but don't want to not having to see her naked.
Hijab is an exaggeration and should be illegal in western countries, for it offers no real solutions and is just a status symbol of inferiority when men are the ones who should be able to keep it in their pants.

>>18228235
I fully agree with "first" but currently the shit is simply too ingrained in society to do anything against it. We're not going to suddenly discriminate against Christfags, hence it's illogical to discriminate against other wackos.

> Islam tends to have a toxic influence upon societies in which it's allowed to thrive
Just like any other religion then. Only the Western world had really an enlightenment period, so it's silly compare it to places that didn't and blame it on their religion.

>it's not acceptable to call them on the shit aspects of their religion
There are tons of people who call them out on things like genital mutilation of young boys but some of the people who do it often just focus on Islam, hurting the argument.

>The idea that women need protection from male attention is a problem, and it's tied to women literally being regarded as property.
Which was a pretty common view and still popular in every other Jewish skywizard cult. Hijab is their way to deal with this imaginary problem just like other religions got theirs. It makes no sense to focus on it while their entire belief is based on sexist bullshit. It's like complaining that KKK robes look offensive.

>ceremonial, or aesthetic purpose.
These get dictated by society, which is more often than not patriarchal. See the whole thing about male-female nipples. A guy can easy skip wearing a shirt, good luck doing that as a women in most places.

>Does a woman really have a choice if her parents will harass, threaten, possibly assault her if she doesn't wear it?
It depends on many, many factors but I honestly don't know a single one personally who threatened to wear it, most do it based on indoctrination from childhood, so same as other religions. (But it obviously happens, just like a chick wearing a short skirt can be threatened by her butthurt boyfriend)

>How many Muslims do you actually know?
I live in Germany... Know 4 who wear hijab and about 10% who wear the more normal veil.

>>18228249
Do you know why it's offensive to some people, though?

It's religion.

We all were born naked. If we weren't conditioned to think nudity is sinful and ugly, people wouldn't be offended.

Difference being that Christians culturally don't consider a naked head "nudity", but Muslims do. (To the point some sects demand even their men to cover their heads; where do you think the term "towelheads" came from, after all?)

>>18228253
>Just like any other religion then.
Not even remotely true. You seem heavily biased.

>>18228243
>even if the most aesthetically pleasing woman in the world paraded around naked, she'd be arrested for indecent exposure
In most jurisdiction she can walk around topless, and this also applies to men. What's your point? The general consensus seems to be "fun bits need to be covered while outside, regardless of gender. Everything else is fair game."

>Think about guys with foreskin and guys without foreskin
You mean how my genitals were mutilated for no medical purpose without my consent before I was old enough to give it, and how society views this as completely acceptable?

Oh but go on, you were telling me how oppressed women are.

Sarcasm aside, society shits on men, society shits on women, the key difference is when a woman feels put upon people *actually give a shit.*

>>18228258
If your point is "religion was a mistake and has zero place in the modern world" I agree.

>>18228259
Take a look at western world before enlightenment. It was an absolute horror show held together by cancerous religion. Take a look at India with their castle system now.

>>18228168
>Agender aroace feminist anarcho-communist agnostic multiracial AFAB with depression and General Anxiety Disorder (and suspicions of Asperger's) who lives in a Latinamerican country and is teetering on the poverty line
That much categorization and labeling can only mean this is a bait post, my dudes. No point to replying.

>>18228258
>nudity is sinful and ugly
That's not what makes people offended. It has to do with people's own insecurities regarding their own bodies.
Long ago people decided to keep wearing clothes and feeling embarrassed whenever they took them because they feel self-conscious.
It has very little to do with thinking those who aren't self-conscious are "sinning" (it's actually considered simple childish behavior) but more to do with how others feel about that.
Considering a naked head "nudity" is not only retarded (no civilization ever felt "ashamed" of showing their faces) but highly oppressive.
You really seem to not understand much about anything regarding religion.

>>18228265
My point is: different cultures, same stupid crap; but the pot is calling the kettle black to feel better about its own blackness.

>>18228268
Why is covering your face more oppressive than covering your tits? Neither makes any sense.

>>18228266
That's not how Europe was at all dipshit. Only when puritans in Britain came along was that even remotely true.
Good to know you're an ignorant idiot.

>>18228273
Because humans needs their faces to communicate. It's a basic human right and if you fail to understand something so basic, you're biased.

>>18228253
>It depends on many, many factors but I honestly don't know a single one personally who threatened to wear it
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2024-when-religious-parents-kill-kids-inside-honor-killing.html

>>18228274
The churches fucked progress in Europe long before puritans were a thing.

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>>18228268
Do you know where said insecurities came from, though?
A hint: censoring, my nigga. And that whole censoring thing came from religion. Back then, people walked around naked, had orgies and fat bimbos made statuettes of themselves. (pic related)

>>18228270
No, the pot is saying "if you want to come to potland you better act like a pot and leave that kettleshit in kettleland."

>>18228279
>personally
I added in the second line that it obviously happens but how many girls were attacked by their fathers and boyfriends for wearing something they don't like?

>>18228280
Stop watching Family Guy and learn actual history, idiot.
Churches were the only place people we're actually studying biology, astronomy, medicine, chemistry.
Read some books or go to /his/.

>>18228282
No. Censoring is a result of people coming together and living in cities and big complex civilizations.
Shame was already a thing before that.
It just comes naturally from people living in big groups where they don't all know each other.

>>18228277
>Because humans needs their faces to communicate
They can communicate just fine in very cold or very hot climates by wearing similar shit.

>>18228289
>Churches were the only place people we're actually studying biology, astronomy, medicine, chemistry.
Due fighting any of the alternatives.

If 4chains happens to be the only site on the Internet, you can be sure that people will try to do the same shit here.

>>18228282
>Back then, people walked around naked, had orgies and fat bimbos made statuettes of themselves. (pic related)
Can not stop laughing at the thought someone actually believes in this.
Do you think native americans or australian aborigines were constantly fucking as well?
What a fucking clueless idiot.

>>18228290
But they don't? Only in deserts because sand might get in your airways and choke you. And anyway that comes out of necessity and has very little to do with forcing people do hide their faces when there's literally no excuse.

>>18228289
How big needs the group to be? There are many tribes who don't give a fuck about censorship.

>>18228287
In modern society? Not that often, and there's a fair to near certain chance he'll be arrested... as long as he's not a Muslim, because his whole family and extended social circle will lie for him, and the cops will be reluctant to get involved at all because they *know* they'll get jerked around and don't feel like being accused of profiling.

Anyway, you responded way too quickly to have read that article, how about you shut up and listen for a minute? Maybe educate yourself on the end game of the ideology you're giving the keys to the kingdom because you're so "tolerant."

Or don't. Part of me legit wants Islam to go mainstream just so feminists can watch their rights vanish, and know that they did it to themselves.

>>18228293
So what is it now?

>communication
Disproved by cold places and deserts.

>forced
Applies to any other part of the body too in most societies.

>>18228292
What alternatives? Universities all over the world started from religion, even the currently oldest one still standing, in Morocco, started from islamic religious tradition. There have never been "alternatives", studying and philosophy started together with religion.
Idiot.

>>18228296
Do you not know how to read or what? I said it had nothing to do with censorship. That only happens when you have a king or high ruler to command laws.
Shame naturally comes when you put more than two different tribes together. See: history of native americans.

>>18228282
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island
Talking out of your ass again? You feminazis never were very good at fact-checking. The most isolated tribe in the world use clothing.

Why? For the same reason I do; I don't like my balls being cold or sandy.

>>18228300
>>communication
>Disproved by cold places and deserts.
How exactly? They have a really hard time understanding each other. They only hide their faces out of necessity.

>>forced
>Applies to any other part of the body too in most societies.
Except it doesn't? You can show whatever you want, just not some tiny pieces because other people feel uncomfortable with it, which is normal in places where lots of people live together without knowing each other.

You're so clueless.

>>18228299
>as long as he's not a Muslim, because his whole family and extended social circle will lie for him
>because only Muslims protect their domestic abusers

>you responded way too quickly to have read that article
Believe it or not, I read it before. Cracked is pretty popular.

>end game of the ideology
Uhh oh. The /pol/ is coming out.

>>18228277
Wait, you guys are talking about niqabs and burkas, not hijabs.
Hijabs are the normal veils, the non-face-covering ones.
Only those crazy-ass fundamentalists demand their women to wear niqabs and burqas, much like only crazy-ass fundamentalist Christians use a hood and lynch black people.

>>18228303
This, there's a reason theology is considered the highest science.

>>18228313
I get those names confused, sorry.

>>18228309
But they aren't required by law to not use it, are they?

And stop assuming I'm a feminazi. Actual feminazis consider the word "bimbo" offensive.

>>18228310
>They have a really hard time understanding each other.
Not hard enough time to make a difference. Can they still communicate? Yeah. Rest doesn't matter.

>You can show whatever you want
http://gotopless.org/topless-laws
That's a first world country with pretty much no Islam.

>because other people feel uncomfortable with it
Some people feel uncomfortable looking at fat people, should they be banned from going out unless it's dark?

>>18228322
>Some people feel uncomfortable looking at fat people, should they be banned from going out unless it's dark?
Are you seriously asking it to 4chan and expecting a "no" for an answer?

>>18228303
Religion =/= Abrahamic cancer. The Greeks were way more liberal about it. Also how the fuck is an university in Marocco relevant for Christianity fucking up the progress in Europe?

>>18228267
Nah, not bait. I just suck at being a human being. Also, I'm pretty big on Linguistics, so, I need names to categorize everything must like we do with syntax.

>>18228322
>it's ok to justify oppression because in extreme environments people are forced to use it
That should be a reason not to force it, you idiot.
You muslim shitlords are all the same.

>topless laws
I said "except some tiny bits that make people uncomfortable". Learn to read.

>Some people feel uncomfortable looking at fat people, should they be banned from going out unless it's dark?
If they rally enough people to get it so a law gets past on that, sure, why not, it's called democracy, something your ass has a hard time reaching into.
But that won't happen because the majority of people in the western world are fat. In fact, in classical times, fat was considered beautiful.

>>18228328
>Christianity fucking up the progress in Europe
It didn't though? Every university in Europe started from religion. The same universities scholars like Copernicus and Galileo studies and developed their theories.

>>18228328
>The Greeks were way more liberal about it.
The Greeks didn't allow women to vote, forced women into marriage by choice of the father.
These are not "liberal" thoughts by any modern definition of the word.
You're a clueless idiot.

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>>18228311
>because only Muslims protect their domestic abusers
It's pretty much the only subculture where it's institutionalized and acceptable by his peers.

>Believe it or not, I read it before
So why are you so indifferent to it?

>le /pol/ meme
The last refuge of someone who knows they're wrong. Islam's *openly declared mission statement* is to "expand the caliphate. You ever hear of taqiya? You ever wonder why Muslims, more than any other group, show zero interest in assimilating into their host culture? Did you know that in Britain there are now courts which operate under Sharia law? As in, "to hell with all that separation of church and state stuff?" Do you know *anything* about the ideology you're defending?

>>18228337
>That should be a reason not to force it, you idiot.
Outside of couple extremists no one is forcing it, so your point?

>"except some tiny bits that make people uncomfortable"
When it comes to tits, it's just bits that make men uncomfortable. Almost like the men who decided on the laws were brainwashed by religion too.

>>18228341
>It's pretty much the only subculture where it's institutionalized and acceptable by his peers.
Apparently you missed all the articles about Christian cults doing the same.

>>18228339
>talk about science
>brings up feminism
But why?

>>18228348
>Christian cults
I'm talking about mainstream Islam and your response is to bring up "hey, there's like... a couple dozen Christians in the woods somewhere doing the same thing."

>>18228355
>I'm talking about mainstream Islam
Without any connection to mainstream Islam, not like it even exist.

>>18228341
Any extremism doesn't care about cultural assimilation, check your facts before talking.
Current context might have seen extremist islam raise but your hatred is no better than theirs.
Do you know anything about islam majority ?
Any ground on what a religion interpretation is ?
>le scared /pol/ meme

FYI go check islam difference between big and small jihad (hint : not what you're thinking)

>>18228339
Women's rights are at the bottom of the list of things I care about. But hey. Still on the list. In all seriousness, you do know giving women the right to vote was basically the deathblow for western society, right?

>>18228360
What. Are you serious? Western society was already fading since the French Revolution, mon ami. It wasn't "giving women the right to vote". It was "giving people in general the right to vote".

>>18228359
Islam is inherently extremist, you dumb twat. I don't hate anyone, the ideology is toxic and irreconcilable with western values. Period.

>Do you know anything about Islam majority?
Do you? That's what I've been talking about for the past hour. I'm seriously done with your ass, trying to have a rational debate with a feminist is like playing chess with a pigeon.

>>18228367
I mean you're not wrong. The "democracy = freedom" meme did a number on society.
>"How does democracy work exactly?"
>"Well, we vote on issues, and majority rules."
>"What about the people who aren't in the majority?"
>"Oh... they can get fucked."
>"That sucks. Any qualifications to vote?"
>"Nope! Everyone can vote. You don't even have to be a citizen, really."
>"How is this not oppression again?"

>>18228372
I mean, inbred, spoiled teens ruling over some random-ass lands kinda sucked too, but when you put their former illiterate servants to vote on some rich assholes who only cared about getting richer, it kinda ruined and is still ruining everything.

>>18228354
We're talking about burkas.
Do try to keep up.

>>18228348
>men
No, mostly women. Men want that shit.
Again, like I explained to you earlier 2 times, it has to do with the shame people feel about their own bodies when they look at other bodies, not the other way round.
You're grasping at straws here.

>>18228376
>it has to do with the shame people feel about their own bodies when they look at other bodies
Which apparently wasn't a thing before the Jewish cults who are scared of females and tits.

>No, mostly women.
There are barely any in congress.

>>18228380
>>No, mostly women.
>There are barely any in congress.
Except the puritan movement which started those laws was mostly made up of women? And they convinced they're husbands to pass those laws? Are you this dumb?

>>18228380
>>it has to do with the shame people feel about their own bodies when they look at other bodies
>Which apparently wasn't a thing before the Jewish cults who are scared of females and tits.
It's a thing in every basic society. Do yourself a favor and study some history around the world, anon. Every time humans leave the Paleolithic, they gather in big groups where they don't know everyone and start to develop lots of complex emotions related to this. Shame is just one of them.

>>18228383
How is the puritan movement related to tit-phobia in places of the world where there was no puritan movements?

>>18228385
Like Egypt? Scythia? Greece? Lower class in Japan? The majority of cultures in Africa and South America?

>>18228394
Uh yes? In all those cultures except those that didn't leave the Paleolithic in Africa and SA people hid their genitals in public.

The idea of this thread was a good one. But this thread quickly went off course and turned into complete garbage. This thread fucking sucks.

>>18228394
You're the one who said "congress" tho?? Are you daft? Really I can't argue with someone who doesn't know how to argue.

>>18228396
islamophobia, bro. instead of hating on rich assholes who exploit them and only get richer at their own expense, they're hating in a bunch of poor-ass brown people whose polemic religion is probably their only crutch at a time like this.

>>18228411
Who says I don't have rich exploiters just as much?
Nice going commie.

>>18228414
hate*

>>18228395
We're talking about tits, mate. Try to keep up.

>>18228397
That's were laws are made, not by brainwashed wimin.

>>18228417
Who says Europe had 'congresses' throughout its history? You're hopeless.

>>18228420
Europe had their own parliaments, where their own old men brainwashed by Christianity decides what's okay and what's not. You're the one who brought Puritans into this as if they matter.

>>18227208
I'm a dude, but I can answer. It's a cultural thing in Egypt and sub-Saharan countries. It has no religious basis, and the only acceptable circumcision is cutting the minor labia to increase pleasure for the women. (that means the esthetic surgery to cut the meat flaps is forbidden yeah)

>>18228424
No, for most of their history they just had absolute Kings saying how things were, period.
When the liberal revolutions came, they looked at those old laws and were smart enough to realize they had a reason to be there, unlike you.

>>18226903
>Hispanic people: why do you seamlessly switch into private conversations in Spanish

Because my mom called.. so I had to answer in Spanish..

Because the person I'm talking to only ever speaks Spanish, so why bother having the person speak broken or poor English near you, when I can simply speak my first tongue, then translate it. Surely this is the same in most translation scenarios.

>food better
>tacos

Usually it's a long ass witches brew of ingredients. Complete seasoning, adobo, sauces..meh. I'm more impressed by people who make deserts like rice pudding.

>>18228427
And what gave them their ideas? How did their justify their laws? Hell, how did they justify their rule?

>>18228443
Religion, science, reflection on the state of society.
Just like the modern muslim world.
Except, you know, the western world advanced.

>>18228425
>cutting the minor labia
Anywhere I can read about this?

I feel most circumcisions, female or male, causes less pleasure.
I want to know if there is a circumcision that causes more pleasure.

>>18226903
Me:

Straight white male, 30.

Black people:

I grew up in an upper middle class white minority. The black adults were doctors lawyers scientists and businessmen. I had the pleasure of meeting and interacting with all of them.

There is no doubt in my mind black people are intellectually equal and can acheive anything a white person can, BUT:

Their goddamn kids were still gangsters thug wannabes and crip and blood copy cats. I was mugged several times as a teen all by black people, and had a few acquaintances shot and even killed over marijuana. Theyd freestyle and brag about how poor they were and how hard the ghetto is when they werent poor and didnt live in a ghetto...

My question is...

Wtf guys. Is this a black hip hop culture gotta be the coolest with the most street cred thing? Would you say if that culture targetted white people theyd be the same?

Im most interested if you used to be like this and arent anymore because of this question:

Did you actually legitimately think you couldnt get a job because you were black and it was the NBA famous rapper or robbing banks?

Do the multitude of examples of successful black adults do nothing for these kids?

Half of my coworkers are black (and we make a lot of money). Some of them are former criminals and totally turned their lives around the very moment an honest well paying job came up..and their kids are all blm now. They go home and argue with their kids every night about how the white man isnt keeping them down and they can just go get a fucking job.. What the hell do we do about this?

>>18228805
Final question, sorry:

I didnt invent shit. Nor did i create this civilisation we live in.

If you thanked me for phones, internet, architecture, vaccines, or whatever the fuck else white people did during their golden age, id think that was absolutely ridiculous because i have zero contribution other than the fact i am a carpenter and built a couple buildings using technology and math i didnt invent...

If you wont suck my dick for that (and i dont want you to) why do some black people think its cool to pin slavery on me? Because i know those same types wouldnt thank me for anything they use made by white people.

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As a brown man, I'd just like to state for the record, no matter how racist you think your race is, my family is 100% more racist than yours as is most brown people. When you become truly redpilled you realize any kind of race mixing always creates mental illness in the half-children.

Also we invented racial purity and the swastika as a symbol of change before you caucasoids stole it from us. Hitler did nothing wrong, except steal our swastika. It's ours.

>>18228844
>race mixing causes mental illness

Gonna need a citation on that one, pal. Im accepting if solid evidence if you have it.

But in evolution its well known biological diversity solves a lot of problems, and the reason we can have such strong sexual interest in other races is an evolutionary instinct that makes better offspring.

So you have quite a hole to dig up their. Personal experience and anecdotal evidence doesnt count because every human alive is susceptible to strong confirmation bias.

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>>18228805
Black German children raised in post-WW2 Germany (born mostly from Negroid American soldiers impregnating poor German women) showed no discernable difference in IQ compared to white counterparts.

They were raised in a culture without, and I specify, "African-American culture". There was no gangster rap. Or gangster culture. Blacks in America before gangster rap and thug culture took over (along with the rise of abortion clinics and the welfare state, encouraging women to make babies for a paycheque rather than start families) actually had a LOWER DIVORCE RATE than their white and Jew counterparts. Black family values were 100% a thing in the 50s and 60s.

This modern wave of black youth are the biproduct of the single mother generations as well as the zionist owned and operated global record industry pushing "nigger culture" into young African-American minds at an early age.

Basically the tl;dr version is "Niggers + Jews = Bad News"

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>>18228864
Ok.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448064/

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_race_mixing

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/23/mixed-race-children-mental-health

Virtually every study has found a high correlation between mixed teens/adults having higher rate of drug addiction, mental illness, promiscuity etc.

The mental schism arises from not being able to identify yourself to one racial group or another.

Even if you are peaceful with other races, a strong sense of biological identity is still crucial to a healthy self-esteem.

>>18228865

Interesting.

Are you black? (purely curiosity).
And i suppose youre agreeing and even supporting my hypothesis its fuckin gangster culture getting into these kids?

>>18228877
No, I'm the Indian guy. But I realize how important culture is to building a human being's intelligence.

>>18228820
>>18228805
As a black person myself I think most of the black youth these days mostly get that "thug life" mentality from the cancerous black "rappers" and "role models" from media these days. And thanks to the invention of smart phones they're able to look and follow those types of people without their parents knowing about it, and instead of choosing to follow a better example of black men and women who contribute to society they would rather follow a bunch of trashy whores and ghetto street rats.

Honestly the the only type of black people who pin every single one of their problems on modern day white men are the ignorant, lazy black folks who have no form of responsibility and don't want to at least TRY to better themselves, it's just easier to blame someone else for their problems. To be honest I think that mentality is mostly apparent in the black youth, because I've met poor black people and they don't have the "blame all white people" mindset at all.

>>18228883
*Met old black people

Phoneposting, sorry

>>18228876

Ok after reading i can only meet you in the middle.

I dont know metapedia so skipped. I trust your first source very much and the third is either quoting that study or similar ones.


There is no mention of this being genetic at all. I can meet in the middle for there being a clear correlation, but its attributed to environmental and cultural aspects, not some kind of deep reproductive issue fucking them up.

The fact seems to be they struggle with identity (like all teens) but have no role models to relate to, and they face a lot of racism from both of their races instead of one causing stress.

I would agree this would suggest race mixing isnt such a great idea for now, but with globalisation and mass integration going as it is i really dont feel this will be a problem in the next few decades let alone a hundred years from now in western civilisation (though im not an expert so count that as an opinion).


However i grew up with a lot of indians and chinese and i definitely know what you mean. Crazy, almost hilariously racist people. Probably wont be a good idea to race mix for quite some time in those parts of the world.


Tl;dr

Youve got me halfway but im still not convinced. We can agree where im at now, agree to disagree, or more sources niggah.

>>18228890
PS.

Thanks for good sources. If i hate you by the end of this youve proven yourself a very good, intelligent man.

>>18228883
Cool man. Thanks.

Its just confusing to me. Thanks to my demographic i grew up in Ive literally sat at high profile meetings with corporate big wigs where half the attendees were fresh off the boat jamaicans. And then theres their mongoloid kids. Doesnt add up.

Needed some affirmation and explanation from a black person who sees what i see to make sure im not crazy.

>>18228907
No problem. But it makes me wonder, do you think that parents of those children should limit internet access so they're less likely to believe that propaganda?

>>18228933

Lets just say with the last election (both sides, liberals and Conservatives) and anti science which is a huge pet peeve of mine which actively ruins a lot of shit (not being able to feed the 3rd world because gwyneth paltrow thinks organic is neato)

Ive recently lost my support for net neutrality.

I think publishing of internet content needs to be licensed and regulated. Because many topics, from race, to science, to general common decency are fiercely under attack by people with a free platform to post their opinions...

>>18228944
Net neutrality got not much to do with that though.

Besides, you can't force people to become educated, they will always find a way to stay in their bubble.

>>18228978
Yeah it doesnt.

Felt weird saying it. Its the part of favouring certain sources over others in whats available im about. I could have put it better.

And youre right. People will dig into their ignorance. Thats life. I just dont like where anythings going.

Thanks again.

>>18228669
I tried to search for it, but I can't find it anywhere, since the surgery is usually for cosmetic purpose and they usually go for the major labia (the hanging flaps)
However, if you think about it, if there is too much skin, the clit won't be stimulated enough, it's just to make way.

>>18228895
On the phone now. You can look up statistics on Eurasian health problems. If you need a bone marrow transplant as a Eurasian, you're fucked. If I need a transplant, there are roughly 1 billion plus people on this planet genetically highly similar to me, surely one of them just died as I write this; so you can see just from a health standpoint, mixed race individuals have more concerns.


Now I'm going to get anecdotal so you can feel free to stop reading. Virtually every Eurasian person I know has this obsession with becoming white. The rare exceptions almost universally appear to be fathered from an Asian man who courted a White woman. Elliott Rodger is basically the logical dead end of the "beta white guy marries some jungle Asian" syndrome. Often they seem resentful of their white parents for choosing to mate with an Asian. My brother married a Polish woman and his kids seem alright, but they're young so it's hard to tell. I have a few cousins born out of my aunt's string of deceased white husbands. They're varied, one is a valedictorian, one is mentally retarded, one is basically turning into a high school jock and my oldest cousin is the worst off. She constantly feels men aren't attracted to her, hasn't found a man to marry, going on 36; you can tell she has self-esteem issues but that just might be my high strung aunt raising her.


Also from personal experience, Eurasian women are usually kinky and adventurous in bed but have self-esteem issues so I've never really thought of them as girlfriend material.

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>>18226903
>Cisgendered heteroflexible humanist agnostic white male

God dammit why do you fuckers use that sort of fucking marxist newspeak?

Anyways, I'm a Finn, fuck you all.
And to you non-Finnic cunts, WHY THE FUCK CAN'T YOU STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY HOMELAND?
WE WILL HAVE TO GENOCIDE YOU WITHIN MY LIFETIME IF YOU KEEP POURING IN, IN ORDER TO PRESERVE OUR DEMOGRAPHIC MAJORITY IN OUR ANCESTRAL HOMELAND.
STAY THE FUCK OUT.

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>>18229213
Did you not vote for Adolf Nigler?

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>>18229224
I do not live in the Municipality where he was on the roster, so no.
He was pretty ebin tho.

>>18229213
>IN ORDER TO PRESERVE OUR DEMOGRAPHIC MAJORITY IN OUR ANCESTRAL HOMELAND.
Why won't you marry a nice Finn and have a lot of little Finns to outbreed them?

>>18229294
>trying to make white people realize they can just have more babies than brown people.

no dude don't you get it, it's the Jews. Always.

>>18227233
Tfw I'm white and still asking the same question.

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>>18229294
I haven't gotten around that yet, but if I am ever lucky enough to get there, I want at least 4 kids. I fear that I am getting too old though. I will be turning 24 soon and have no real experience with girls.

Also, it is not like our current society incentives having families in any decent way.
Instead of encouraging young people to start families and have many kids, our governmental policies encourage people to spend most of their youth studying, move to the cities (where living is super expensive) due to centralizing everything in them, and pursue careers well into their thirties, before starting a family, which will be small due to the insane living costs.

The only people who get plenty of kids and start having them early are welfare bums, and an ever increasing portion of them are of foreign background, that for some reason, are allowed benefits and even the ability to vote, despite not being Finns.

Add the above with the increasing mass immigration, and the constant push for multiculturalism, and you have a receipt for the ongoing demographic replacement of our people.
The people pushing for mass immigration and multiculturalism are traitors that should be shot. Our society is crumbling because the people in power have forgotten that THEIR PURPOSE IS TO SERVE THE FINNISH PEOPLE, not themselves, not foreigners, not financial elites, and least of all, the fucking EU. They are there, to serve OUR PEOPLE.

>>18229339
>and have no real experience with girls
That isn't going to change anytime soon. Though at least you have a scapegoat for all of your problems.

>>18229357
Scapecoat?
I do not blame foreigners for the fact that I fell into crippling depression for over 4 years, from which I have only recently started to recover.

Even if I had kids already, my views on the state of our country would be exactly the same.

You have in no way, refuted any of my arguments, and your attempt to claim that the only reason I have these views is my lack of success with women is completely intellectually dishonest.

>>18229369
>refuted any of my arguments
It may sound shocking but ramblings are generally not considered "arguments". If you make a claim, you need to support it with something resembling objectivity and reason.

Straight white male philosopher/poet here

To everyone: Why aren't you as good as me?

>>18229381
Except the situation of my country, as I describe here>>18229339 is accurate.
That is how shit works here, and my argument is that increasing mass immigration and the push for multiculturalism will lead to my people's demographic and cultural displacement in our own homeland.

That shit has already happening in germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF9V8POmuxg

You have offered absolutely nothing but thinly weiled personal insults, which I suspect are the only things you are capable of, given that you have distinctly avoided the topic at hand completely, and just attacked my character.

>>18229395
>Except the situation of my country, as I describe here>>18229339 is accurate
>offers a yt video as proof
>ignoring that what YOU want may not be what the majority in your country wants
>ignore that what YOU want offers no benefits for anyone

As for facts...
>our governmental policies encourage people to spend most of their youth studying
Is probably true, but why is it bad? You can study with kids, you know.

>move to the cities (where living is super expensive) due to centralizing everything in them
That's true too but again, pretty much how society always worked and makes sense.

>and pursue careers well into their thirties, before starting a family
One doesn't stop the other, so it's bullshit.

>which will be small due to the insane living costs
Balanced out by decent wages.

>The only people who get plenty of kids and start having them early are welfare bums
So it's not a problem to have plenty of kids if you want after all?

Disjointed thinking like that would hardly pass for a blog, anon.

>>18227240
Please tell me more about how feminism is no longer needed in America when you have congressmen trying to decide what a woman can or cannot do to her body in terms of abortion and having access to birth control.

Without feminism, you would have no right to vote. Why kill the movement that allowed that in the first place. You seem to be grouping a whole movement based on its fringe radical element. Tell me, how many times have you seen radical feminism in real life and not on the internet?

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>>18229419
The Youtube vid refers to germany you moron, and you can confirm all the statistics brought up in it by following the links in the description.
The video simply explains the German situation more eloquently than I ever could. Maybe actually watch it, instead of dismissing it right out of the bat.

>>ignoring that what YOU want may not be what the majority in your country wants
Mass immigration is not something most Finns desire. It provides absolutely ZERO benefits for us and outside of the utterly deluded lefties, everyone here fucking knows that importing tons of worthless africans and arabs here is a NET LOSS for our society.
>>ignore that what YOU want offers no benefits for anyone
What I want, is to maintain and preserve our homeland as a FINNISH nation, not some multicultural shithole. That desire is within the interests of majority of Finns, given that multiculturalism is inherently against the interests of our people. There is zero benefits in turning Finland into a multicultural nation for us Finns.

>Is probably true, but why is it bad?
Because it reduces the population growth to basically negative levels, which is then used as an excuse to import massive amounts of foreigners here to replace us.

>You can study with kids, you know.
Hardly.

>That's true too but again, pretty much how society always worked and makes sense.
Mass urbanization is very recent phenomena here. Less than 50 years ago, most Finns still lived in the countryside.
Even more recent has been the massive price increase in just the living expenses of city life.

>One doesn't stop the other, so it's bullshit.
Yes it does. People are discouraged from starting families young, especially girls, because having a child before you have "established" yourself can kill your career prospects.

Most Finns have children in their late thirties these days, and usually just have 1 or 2 kids. Our birth rate is barely at replacement rate due to that shit.
cont.

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>>18229448

>Balanced out by decent wages.
Lol nope.
Our taxes are fucking insane. City dwellers do not make significantly more than people in the countryside, because combined with the insane taxes, and general living expenses of city life, any increased pay city dwellers can actually keep is generally negligible to people still living in the countryside.

>So it's not a problem to have plenty of kids if you want after all?
Yes it is you moron. Welfare bums do not contribute anything to the society and the upkeep of our system and neither do their kids. They are a net drain on our nation. And nice going, ignoring the part about how increasing number of them are foreigners. Our government is literally paying child support for people who are here to breed us out.
It is disgusting.

Your drivel can be summed up as "let me tell you about your country".
You dismiss problems that we have out of hand, despite having zero knowledge of the situation here.

My country is going to shit, and importing masses of third worlders here is not fucking helping. It just means that when Civil War 2, Electric Boogaloo starts, we need to remove some brownies along with the fucking traitors that have sold out our country.

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>>18229439
Women's suffrage was a mistake tho.

>>18229448
>Mass immigration is not something most Finns desire.
Citation needed for all of the following claims, plus explanation what the fuck "mass immigration" means in the context, given it's a loose term.

>There is zero benefits in turning Finland into a multicultural nation for us Finns.
More claims without proof.

>excuse to import massive amounts of foreigners here to replace us.
Lack of population growth is only one reason for immigration. Outside of economical factors, there are simply international laws.

>Hardly.
I know dozens of people who did, some who still do. It's fucking Finland, not some shithole like Murica without social security where you need to study and work or have a rich daddy.

>Less than 50 years ago, most Finns still lived in the countryside.
Less than 50 years ago Finland was also a backwards shithole. Urbanization is inevitable to a progressing society. Sorry for the bad news but most predictions promise mega cities everywhere around the world.

> massive price increase in just the living expenses of city life.
Well, that's more of an economics/policy thing.

> People are discouraged from starting families young
Sure but nobody stops them. If you'd find a Finn qt, you're free to have 20 qt Finn kids with her, just how scary brown people are free to make 20 scary brown kids.

>Our birth rate is barely at replacement rate due to that shit.
That's usually the case in developed countries. Too many kids are simply not worth the effort and resources for someone wealthy.

>muh taxes
It's all whining on high level. Not incorrect but ridiculous when compared to the rest of the world. Life in Finland is easy in the top 10.

>Welfare bums do not contribute anything to the society
Actually they speed up the advancement to automation by not contributing to an inefficient system. Unless your job requires semi unique skills, it's you who takes more from society by filling a position, a machine could do better and faster.

>>18229462
> ignoring the part about how increasing number of them are foreigners
Nobody sane cares about that after all.

>"let me tell you about your country"
Living somewhere doesn't guarantee knowledge about the place, giving how most relevant data is freely available these days.

>My country is going to shit
By what metric?

>It just means that when Civil War 2, Electric Boogaloo starts
Certainly in your head.

>with the fucking traitors that have sold out our country
#Finnlivesmatter ... unless they think differently.

>>18226903
im muslim, ill answer. the koran is a symbol of female oppression in it self, and disguises it by saying that it is unholy to act otherwise. many women refuse to believe this because their parents embedd this idea of heaven or hell in all of their actions.

>>18229508
Come on dude, at least make better baits, it's not that hard.

>>18227346
honestly im white and i laugh at the joked that black people make all of the time. i know one monentrgro girl that gets offended from white people jokes. i dont understand why, i guess people take life more seriously than others or are more sensitive. also, she was pretty overweight, so that must have made her more sensitive. (she was skinny before)

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>>18229492
>Citation needed for all of the following claims, plus explanation what the fuck "mass immigration" means in the context, given it's a loose term.
I do not expect you to be able to read Finnish, but here.
https://www.verkkouutiset.fi/kotimaa/HS%20gallup%20maahanmuutto-42275

The crucial part is this:
"Lähes 70 prosenttia kyselyyn vastanneista vaatii Suomelta tiukempaa linjaa turvapaikkahakemusten hyväksymisessä."
Which means "Almost 70 percent of participants of the Gallup demand Finland to have stricter line on the approval of refugee applicants."
And that gallup was taken 2 years ago, and shit has gotten worse in terms of these fucking "refugees".

As for mass immigration, it is a rate of immigration where the number of immigrant allowed is great enough to cause significant demographic change in the population of the nation.

>More claims without proof.
Explain to me how it serves us Finns to weaken our cultural and demographic position in Finland? Because that is what multicutluralism essentially does. It weakens our position, by arguing that non-Finnish cultures are just as valid to exist here. Such state of affairs does not serve our long term interests in any way, for it weakens our cultural dominance in our own homeland.

>Lack of population growth is only one reason for immigration. Outside of economical factors, there are simply international laws.
And none of those serve the interest of us Finns. Again, importing foreigners to our land to replace us, offers no benefit to us.

>I know dozens of people who did, some who still do.
Yes, and?
Most people who are studying do not have children, because of the burden having to both study and raise a child at the same time places upon the person.

>>18229602

>Urbanization is inevitable to a progressing society. Sorry for the bad news but most predictions promise mega cities everywhere around the world.
And that will lead to increased crime, societal problems, corruption and all kinds of other detestable shit.
It is not fucking progress. It is regression.
We may have been a poor, backwards shithole 50 years ago, but back then, people didn't have to worry about being robbed or murdered in their homes, or beat up on the streets for being white, because such crimes did not fucking exist back then. The more we have "progressed" the more we have had to endure all sorts of social problems.
The only thing where progress has happened is with technology. Socially and culturally, we are dying.

>Well, that's more of an economics/policy thing.
Wrought by the people responsible for the rest of this crap that ills our society, because they serve themselves and their financial masters, not the Finnish people. They are traitors.

>Sure but nobody stops them.
Except the realities of life that have been discussed earlier.

>just how scary brown people are free to make 20 scary brown kids.
In his/her OWN FUCKING HOMELAND.
Why on earth should I be Ok with a foreigner living and breeding on the land of my ancestors?
They will never, ever be Finns, and they will never, ever fucking belong here, and neither will their kids, just like I will never be Japanese even if I moved to japan tomorrow and lived the rest of my life there, nor would be my children, even if I had them with a japanese woman. No japanese would see me, or my mongrel kids as his/her kin, nor should they. The same applies to non-Finns here.

>That's usually the case in developed countries
Yeah, it's as if all of the developed countries are undergoing these same, nation destroying issues.

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>>18229642
> Life in Finland is easy in the top 10.
For now. That is not in any way, a guaranteed state of affairs. Our wealth and prosperity was earned trough hard work, blood and sweat, and it will fade away unless it is protected and maintained, at which our leaders have been failing at spectacularly.
Also, the taxes were brought up only due to your claim that high wages supposedly make having families easier in the tax heavy nation that Finland is.

>Actually they speed up the advancement to automation
Automation is another can of worms that will cause massive problems for us in the coming decades, due to the mass unemployment it will cause. Importing masses of unemployable third worlders will not make any of those problems any easier.

>Nobody sane cares about that after all.
On the contrary, anyone who can reflect upon history does care. The breakup of Yugoslavia was due to ethnic conflicts, which will repeat themselves all across Europe in the coming decades.

>Living somewhere doesn't guarantee knowledge about the place, giving how most relevant data is freely available these days.
Given that you are utterly ignorant of the state of my homland, I can't say that the modern access to information has done you any good.

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>>18229646
>By what metric?
Shit tier economic growth, increasing unemployment, crumbling infrastructure and social systems, government that is knee deep in debt, rising social problems among the people, the fragmentation of our people and the loss of unity, the increasing strife between natives and foreigners that will just keep increasing, falling birth rate, the pension bomb, shittons of useless, and costly bureaucracy, laws that discourage companies from operating here, the increasing divide between the different income groups of our nation, the EU and it's continuing encroaching upon our sovereignty, to name a few massive fucking problems.
Immigrants are not the sole reason our country is in trouble, but they bloody well ain't making the problem any better.

>Certainly in your head.
Do you know anything of Finland's history?
The civil war between communists and patriots was barely 100 years ago. The idea that it could not happen again, is naive, given that many of the reasons that caused it, can be seen again, namely the fracturing of our unity and increasing economic differences between our people.


>unless they think differently.
Picture related.
A traitor is worse than an enemy.

Anyways, it is far too late for me to continue this bs.
Don't talk about nations and their problems that you know nothing about, cunt.

>>18229602
>have stricter line on the approval of refugee applicants
Isn't exactly "brown people stay out", you're talking about is it?

>rate of immigration where the number of immigrant allowed is great enough to cause significant demographic change in the population of the nation
That's pretty damn vague on every level. Not even a percentage?

>weaken our cultural and demographic position in Finland?
Assuming all non Fins vote the opposite of what all Fins vote, or that there are issues on which all non Fins and all Fins have opposing positions about. Like sure it's possible but pretty unlikely.

>our long term interests in any way, for it weakens our cultural dominance in our own homeland
These things tend to change with time either way, as the culture itself. Though at least your life is good enough so you don't have to worry about serious problems.

> because of the burden having to both study and raise a child at the same time places upon the person
Well, having it both ways is not always easy. Is it doable? Yes. Case closed.

>It is not fucking progress. It is regression.
All the problems get balanced out by benefits hence urbanization is still a thing and given for every developed country.

>because such crimes did not fucking exist back then
Well, others did. Plus all the other downsides of being a poor backwards country. But hey, if you prefer to get raped by Swedish or Russian invaders instead of shitposting about how bad the situation is ... you're free to. If that isn't progress what is.

>Wrought by the people responsible for the rest of this crap that ills our society
There aren't that many options. Sure, there is one country that doesn't give a shit about reasonable policies and economy. It also has tons of natives and very low level of immigration. It's north of South Korea.

>Except the realities of life that have been discussed earlier.
Except "things are harder when you want X and Y" doesn't mean you can't have them. Hell, you don't even have to study.

>Why on earth should I be Ok with a foreigner living and breeding on the land of my ancestors?
Why should you be not okay with a person living and breeding on the land where your ancestors lived? Besides a massive dose of autism of course.

>nation destroying issues
Low birth rates in the developed world are stable for generations now, still not a single nation destroyed.

>it will fade away unless it is protected and maintained
That's not how capitalism meme works. It's all about growth. Maintaining alone leads to regression.

>high wages supposedly make having families easier in the tax heavy nation that Finland is
High wages do that, yes. Just because high taxes make it slightly less easier doesn't mean that it's hard in the end.

>Importing masses of unemployable third worlders will not make any of those problems any easier.
Pretty much everybody will be unemployable either way in the medium-long term, leaves you with more time to make qt Finn kids.

>The breakup of Yugoslavia was due to ethnic conflicts
These existed there long ago. There were other political factors and of course good ol' economics, which in the end decides.

>will repeat themselves all across Europe in the coming decades
Do you even European history? We happily killed each other for millennia, all without the help of scary brown people.

>I can't say that the modern access to information has done you any good
Sadly still better than the delusions you make up despite living right there.

>Shit tier economic growth, increasing unemployment, government that is knee deep in debt, falling birth rate, the pension bomb
These things are bound to happen in every developed economy and pretty much unavoidable because that's how the system works. Plus of course technical advances, making more and more jobs useless.

>crumbling infrastructure and social systems, shittons of useless, and costly bureaucracy, laws that discourage companies from operating here, the increasing divide between the different income groups of our nation, the EU and it's continuing encroaching upon our sovereignty, rising social problems among the people
Hardly at a "going to shit" level or even anywhere near it but sure these things are real at least and even something to legitimately blame on politicians.

>the fragmentation of our people and the loss of unity
Not wrong but pretty vague and a topic much more complex than "muh brown people".

>they bloody well ain't making the problem any better
Just like you then?

>namely the fracturing of our unity and increasing economic differences between our people
Nowhere near of being close enough of being near to be enough for anything serious. There is a much higher chance of WW3, and that is silly low already. Amerifats had MUCH worse fracturing of unity for centuries and a much larger economic difference between the people and even they are no way close of doing anything silly. Additionally the Finns got a much better education too, well most of them.

>A traitor is worse than an enemy.
So why even trying to bullshit yourself into thinking that you give a shit about muh ethnicity? All you care about is forcing your delusion on others.

>Don't talk about nations and their problems that you know nothing about, cunt.
Writing out inner monologue is rather unorthodox but sure, I agree with you here. Good night, anon.

>>18229888
>>18229885
>>18229878
I ain't gonna bother with the rest of your idiotic leftist drivel, because it is 2 am and I am posting from phone, but I will comment on this
>So why even trying to bullshit yourself into thinking that you give a shit about muh ethnicity? All you care about is forcing your delusion on others.

These fucking traitors, that push for mass immigration and multiculturalism, actively work towards a future where we Finns, including my potential children will be a fucking minority in our own homeland. They fucking cheer and champion a future where my people have become demographically replaced in our own homeland.
Killing them is an act of self defence, for if they succeed with their treasonous ambitions, we Finns will once again fall under the thrall of foreign people. They are fucking traitors, that want a future where my children will have to fear violence from rowing gangs of shitskins that do not belong here. Just like killing the communists fucking traitors that wanted to sell our country to the ussr, killing these leftist multiculturalism advocates is a righteous act of defending our people and our freedom.

>>18229919
>I wanna kill everyone who disagrees with me, FOR FREEDOM

>>18229945
No, I want to kill people who actively work towards a future where my children's lives will be endangered.

>>18229969
>my children
Might as well worry about winning the lottery without having a ticket.

>>18228285
If by "potland" you mean the USA, you couldn't be more wrong. All religions are equal there, it's in the constitution

>>18229982
And there you go again, having no arguments, you resort to attacks on my character, as if they somehow counter anything I have said. It is typical of your contemptible ilk. There is nothing more for us to discuss

>>18230001
Anon, go to sleep already. The brown people under your bed won't hurt you.

>>18230012
Typical pathetic leftist drivel. Your head will be on the spikes along with the rest of your treasonous ilk in due time.

>>18230033
Have a pre sleep fap about that then. Sweet dreams.

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>>18229439
>Please tell me more about how feminism is no longer needed in America when you have congressmen trying to decide what a woman can or cannot do to her body in terms of abortion and having access to birth control
You're acting like this is a cut and dry issue, you keep talking about "MUH RIGHTS" well, what about the rights of the unborn child? What about the rights of the man in question to opt-in/out of being a father? This is the running gag when it comes to feminism; you want "freedom of choice" without having to own said choice. How can you argue for total reproductive rights without abolishing child support?

The problem with feminism is you people only want half measures where you take but don't give, the moment people start talking about you needing to "man up" to earn all these new privileges you enjoy, you get triggered as fuck.

You think women are oppressed? There are men in this country right now paying alimony after a no-fault divorce. The first thing a man does when he turns 18 is register for selective service, he acknowledges that he is expendable, and that a woman's life is inherently more valuable than his. Men are the victims of domestic violence at almost double the rate that women are, and yet they're generally invisible or ridiculed. Men are more like to commit suicide, be killed on the job, have their freedom taken away.

Understand: literally every facet of society is working to make you happy, comfortable, and placated. You are addicted to the pursuit of your own happiness, that's why there's an epidemic of single mothers; we live in a society where women see nothing wrong with destroying their family and crippling their children's development because they've decided "I'm just not happy." You women have it so good you actually think you're entitled to constant, uninterrupted bliss.

Third/fourth wave feminism isn't a response to oppression, it's a symptom of a culture of narcissism that has come to define the western female.

>>18230163
That was like poetry Anon. Thank you.

Why is there a thread for saying racist and misogynist shit. Bunch of hateful creeps.

>>18227240
>why is feminism still a thing?

not a feminist but they want to play the victim to get more funding for their feminist groups.


>why blame the white man for your problems?

same reason feminist do to get more funding for their support groups. The problem is not white man the problem is the black culture and the welfare state that is destroying their community. If you go to places with no welfare state you don't see 70 percent single mothers. also the black culture is fucking stupid and blacks would be more successful if they stole some of the Asian Culture that is all about studying hard.

>>18228414
Not even about communism; we're doing God's job by hating rich exploiters. It's even in the Bible that God hates the rich.

>>18227233
Have you ever had French? Spanish?

Bisexual white woman here.
Muslims/ arabs:
Why do you treat women as property and harass non muslim women?
Also, Asian guys:
Why are you so shy? I like Asian men but they're so shy and awkward to talk to.

To non feminists, or at least those who believe gender equality/equity is a bad thing (as in, believe that women's suffrage is wrong etc.) why.

>>18229439
>congressmen trying to decide what a woman can or cannot do to her body in terms of abortion and having access to birth control.

because men pay the most taxes and you want free abortions/free birth control therefore men have a saying to your body.


>Without feminism, you would have no right to vote.

which you never earn because women never fought in wars or are require to be drafted. also authority goes hand to hand with responsibility. Women want all the authority without any of the responsibility. Why should we give you the right to vote when women are not responsible people mentally.physically or emotionally like men?

>>18228326
Im uncomfortable smelling indian people. They should be allowed out unless its windy.

>>18226903
>>18228432
And every Latino worth their salt knows Mamacita must be respected and never have to pass through embarrassment by the hands of their own child.
Disappointing your mother while being Latino is equivalent to a seppuku-worthy dishonor for a samurai.

>>18228820
Something about basking in the leftover privilege or something of the sorts. They don't blame you for slavery, they just want you to stop thinking you don't get at least a smidge of social advantage by being white.

>>18228890
>>18228876
Though, it's not genetics, just lack of support from either sides of the family. The whites don't like you because you're tainted, and the non-whites don't like you because they think you're stuck-up for being lighter skinned than they are.

>>18229339
At least you can change your life for the better by studying. In my awful country, our Dracula cosplayer of a president is doing a "high school education reform" that's basically destroying public schools. We're slowly regressing to Middle Ages because some rich assholes decided having Dracula orchestrate a coup d'etat was a good idea.

>>18229448
Finnbro i feel you. And at least know i know your right. Fuck all the fat sjw slobs that will tell you you need a jew article citation to say your point of view that multiculturalism is fucking your country up.

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>>18230582
>To non feminists, or at least those who believe gender equality/equity is a bad thing (as in, believe that women's suffrage is wrong etc.) why
Because, as I've mentioned earlier ITT, you don't just want equal opportunity, you want an enforced equal outcome, in the absence of equal accountability. The image provided by >>18229474 gave a pretty solid breakdown of the damage caused by women's suffrage, despite being a bit cringe here and there.

And, simply put, you haven't earned it. Men are expected to lay down their life in defense of their nation at a moment's notice, you've never been asked to take accountability for the fate of your nation, your very way of life, in fact the very same women who petitioned for women to be able to serve as combat arms/infantry are now vehemently opposed to women being subject to the draft. There's this recurring theme of feminists wanting to opt out of equality the moment it stops being fun; it's like crying your way out of speeding ticket only the stakes are much, much higher. This has never been more relevant than it is now; with everything going on in the Middle East and the Korean Peninsula we may very well see the draft come into play sooner rather than later. Eventually, at any rate; peace is relative, and it never lasts.

Ergo, some time soon, we may wake up to a world that expects the very same men who have been demonized, shamed, and told how privileged they are, to lay down their lives for a society that hates them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sycv9Yqwcak

^This video is worth a watch

The tl;dr: of it is this, you expect an equal vote without an equal contribution, and on a fundamental level that's fucked. Ergo, you want something haven't earned, constantly refuse to earn, and which has had universally negative effects on society, and the only rebuttal you really have is "but muh feelings" and that just makes it more offensive.

>>18230600
>because men pay the most taxes and you want free abortions/free birth control therefore men have a saying to your body
A lot of women who feel entitled to state funded reproductive health seem to forget it's paid for by taxes, taxes paid by the populace, whom are supposed to have a say in how the money that is stolen from each paycheck is spent.

>which you never earn because women never fought in wars or are require to be drafted. also authority goes hand to hand with responsibility. Women want all the authority without any of the responsibility. Why should we give you the right to vote when women are not responsible people mentally.physically or emotionally like men?
Echoes my sentiments. It's worth reiterating that women received the vote without earning it, and so now vote without thinking about the long term implications because they assume no accountability for it.

“You was in on the heist, you just don’t like your cut,” - Dave Chappelle

What I'm saying is, if feminists and the so-called progressives continue to get their way, we could find ourselves, forty years or so from now, in a world where Sharia law is mainstream, where feminists have lost all the rights they've decided they're entitled to, and then they'll turn around and blame it on the patriarchy, it was male privilege that made the world that way, not women voting far left on every issue by default for decades with zero fucks given as to what, exactly, they were enabling.

>>18230633
>And every Latino worth their salt knows Mamacita must be respected
Blind loyalty and unearned respect is cringe as fuck.

>>18230897
It's less "blind loyalty and unearned respect" and more "if you don't do it La Chancla will happen".

>>18230903
Tolerance was a mistake.

>>18230841
My country doesn't even have the draft, and besides does that mean old people, sick people etc. shouldn't vote either? Personally I think that everyone who pays taxes should get the vote.
I'm not even an advocat for equal outcome. Just equal opportunity. I'm a feminist in the sense that Simone De Beauvoire was a feminist. Not in the way that Everyday Feminism is "feminist". I don't go in for identity politics beyond thinking everyone should have an equal opportunity.

>>18230841
So how do you go with getting girlfriends? Do you tell them they don't deserve any say in society?

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>>18231016
>My country doesn't even have the draft
Good for you, mine does. Don't lose the forest for the trees, the draft was just one example. The point is, in pretty much all things, women are only as accountable as they want to be, they can opt out at any time, this even applies to motherhood; do you realize how hard a woman has to fuck up to lose custody of her children?

>>18231020
You actually think I'm naïve enough to think any good will come from discussing these points with women? You're adorable. Every aspect of society is constantly telling women they're in the right, even if they're wrong; social media was a mistake.

To answer your question I generally keep things casual, I try to keep a fwb or two most of time, and I'm not adverse to lying to a woman/playing games if I just want to fuck her. I occasionally do relationships but I'm very selective, and they tend to end amicably once discussion of marriage starts. Pretty much every woman wants it, because it's a zero risk proposition for them, and I just don't see the point in it. It's big risk, and a pointless one; I have about as much respect and reverence for the institution of marriage as society as a whole does, that is to say, not much. Between divorce/family law being as biased and misandric as it is, no-fault divorce being a thing, and how self-interested modern women are, I have trouble seeing marriage as anything other than a meme.

Besides, isn't the idea of lifelong commitment kind of absurd, especially in a society comprised not of families, but individuals, like our own? The nuclear family is dead, so why do we pretend like it isn't? I think it's much more healthy for men and women to just meet people, enjoy their company and the growth that comes from a relationship, and accept when it's run it's course.

tl;dr: Fuck bitches, get money. The rare relationship I find myself in tends to end (usually amicably) when the girl brings up marriage/kids.

>>18231016
>old people
Have already paid their dues.
>sick people
Have a valid excuse.

You're missing the point, that women have demanded, and received power equal (and in many cases, in excess of) their male counterparts and simply refuse to assume the same responsibilities.

>>18231078
What do any of those things have to do with the right to vote? I agree with
>>18231016
paying taxes is the best starting point for who gets to vote. All your other issues like inequality in custody rights can be tackled separately.

>>18231084
Which women? Which responsibilities? What if a woman want to live as a productive tax paying American without any pandering? Why do you single out women and not unproductive citizens as whole no matter their sex?

>>18231078
>agree that the institution of marriage is fallible and subject to the whims of society
>agree that it's healthy to ust meet people, enjoy their company and the growth that comes from a relationship, and accept when it's run it's course.
>still think that women's entire existence should be tied completely to the family unit politically and economically
??

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Normal white dude here.

To Christians: Why do so many Christians ignore many rules in the bible? Since when was being gay okay from a Christian standpoint?

To Muslims: What are the actual restrictions on alcohol, and do you follow them?

And finally, to homosex men: Do you think you are failing your ancestors by not producing children to continue your line?

>>18231125
>still think that women's entire existence should be tied completely to the family unit politically and economically
I don't think that's how it should be, I'm just pointing out that women still enjoy a lot of privileges and protections as though things have never changed. You cannot have equality of power without equality of responsibility, not for long anyway.

My issue isn't that women are independent, or that they aren't broodmares, my issue is that they're straddling the fence.

The other thing is, frankly, I'm tired of hearing about women's issues. It's just nonstop outrage and victim posturing all day, every day, I can't log into normiebook without seeing it. I'm tired of it. I'm burnt out.

A great misogynist once said "be the change you want to see in the world." I don't mind women, I mind women's studies majors complaining about the lack of women in STEM fields.

I will never attempt to impede a woman's rights to be whoever she wants to be, so long as she owns the choices she makes, and her fellow women make for her.

Want complete reproductive autonomy? I am 100% ok with that if, and only if, child support is abolished. Alimony should have been abolished in the 1950s.

Coming back to the draft thing, if you are opposed, even a little, to women now being subject to the draft, you're not a feminist, you're a female supremacist. Period.

Equality means making your own way, even when it sucks; *especially* when it sucks.

>>18231133
>To Christians: Why do so many Christians ignore many rules in the bible? Since when was being gay okay from a Christian standpoint?
First and foremost when it comes to being a Christian is love thy neighbor and judge not lest ye be judged. We're imperfect, vile, craven things. Christ doesn't ask of us perfection, he asks that we try our best.

Leviticus also prohibits the consumption of shellfish, and yet you never see Westboro Baptist church picketing Red Lobster with "god hates crabs" signs. Bigots using the faith to justify their cunt behavior have completely missed the purpose of said faith.

Both the "don't be gay" and "don't eat shrimp" rules have more to do with survival in ancient times than anything else; don't be gay because bloodlines and making more people for your tribe was everything back then, don't eat shellfish because it was often very unsafe to do so.

I'm not saying it's ok to be gay, I'm saying it's just another sin, and we're all sinners. You don't have to be perfect, you just have to do your best and accept him as your savior.

>>18231243
I find your views completely understandable. I just thought you shared many of the views expressed in
>>18229474
which I find very dishonest in its view of history and extremely liberal in what justifies taking away rights from tax paying americans

>>18231251
God saying it's okay to eat shellfish is in the bible. God never says sleeping with men is fine.

>>18226903
The concept of this thread was dumb at the very beginning. Cannot believe it got these many replies.

>>18231280
Leviticus 11: 9-12

>These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

>And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

>They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

>Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Eating shrimp is literally the same as sodomy according to Leviticus.

>>18231310
Leviticus only applies to Jews.

Non religious white girl here:
To religious people, of any faith, how do you come to believe? I've often thought it would be really nice to be part of a religion, but I'm always stumped when it comes to actually believing in God or gods. So what makes you believe?

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>>18231277
>I just thought you shared many of the views expressed in
I mean, I do. Women's suffrage has done irreversible damage to our economy, our society, our way of life.

But... there's no going back. So, logically, the only thing we can do is move forward to full gender neutrality, but that also means women relinquishing their position as the protected, favored sex.

A good example of this is the term "violence against women" and the implication that said violence is inherently worse than violence against men.

For true equality to be achieved, women themselves, and society as a whole must embrace this truth: women. are not. special.

I'd like that. I'm all for that. But the biggest obstacle to this, is, ironically, women themselves, because (spoilers) most women revel in the pussy pass.

This >>18230163 is me, and I'm not trying to be edgy, I'm not tipping a fedora, I'm being completely genuine. Feminism has a lot of nobles goals, but unless more people start openly calling feminists on instances of double standards and hypocrisy in the movement, we're just spinning our wheels in the mud, aren't we?

Here's an example of the "culture of narcissism" I brought up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNHwhHWPoQ

That video should be immensely disturbing to anyone who views it. Imagine if the genders were flipped; social media would implode.

For us to move forward, women have to come off the pedestal, not taken down, they must step down of their own accord.

>>18231330
So only Jews aren't allowed to be gay.

>>18231347
Athiests cote the Big Bang as the ultimate source of everything in our lives, but fail to explain what caused the big bang, or most importantly how the individual consciousness works. Why are you you, and not someone else? There are so many mysteries that cannot be explained by modern science. Science itself is a faith based system for the average person. Many do not know why things are true, and are relying on "smart" people to tell them how the world works, which is no different then being told by holy men how the world works.

I went a little offtopic, but think about why you are you, and why all of this exists. My belief largely stemmed from those questions.

>>18231347
Brainwashing from birth from parents. Not even trolling.

Getting a grown adult, capable of critical thought, to believe in a dogma with zero proof and rapidly diminishing context in the modern world is a hard sell, that's why they get you while you're young.

If you want to be part of a religious community, and to embrace a legitimately constructive ideology, look into Buddhism. Buddhism has some pretty cool ideas. "Don't be a cunt. Take care of your body. Accept that change is the way of the world."

>>18231361
Romans 1:27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

>>18231374
You are naive and unaware of the world. Atheists become religious all the time. You don't need to be brainwashed to believe that some kind of higher power is at work.

>>18231363
But where's the evidence against say, Descartes' demon or something similar?

>>18231363
I don't claim the Big Bang is the source of everything, I believe we can't know. I'm more of an agnostic person, but I really can't believe some vindictive person with divine power made everything.

>>18231387
There's as little evidence for the demon as against it.

>>18231397
And therein lies why I can't bring myself to believe in 'God', for the same reason.

>>18231399
There is no evidence of anything, if you aren't confused you are an idiot.

>>18231385
Eat a dick, I'm speaking from experience. I was raised Baptist, and grew out of it, but I still find myself defaulting to talking to god when I'm scared or lost.

People find religion, sure, it happens, but most followers of Abrahamic religions are lifelong followers of the faith.

>You don't need to be brainwashed to believe that some kind of higher power is at work
Of course not. I'm an agnostic theist, I believe in powers beyond my understand, I just don't presume to understand them.

If it makes you feel any better, I think atheists are bigger fools and generally more insufferable than the religious, except maybe Muslims.

It's like, in a universe as mindfuckingly vast you can say with utmost certainty there's nothing out there?

Why do religious people hate gay people so much?

I'm a lesbian, and my girlfriend is middle eastern in origin (although an atheist) and her family won't talk to her. Nor will a good percentage of mine (who are catholic). Random people yell at us if we're remotely affectionate in public. We're not hurting anyone, we're not crazy SJWs, we're both moderate politically, neither of us even care about gay marriage. We just want to live our lives in peace.

>>18231418
Gay people are not common, and therefore not normal. Society has been working to counter homosexuality since the fall of rome, and it takes more than 30 years to make people accept a group they have traditionally reviled.

>>18231418
>Random people yell at us if we're remotely affectionate in public
Where do you live?

>>18231469
Australia.

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>>18226903

10/10

Excellent bait.

>>18231133
>What are the actual restrictions on alcohol, and do you follow them
Alcohol is completely forbidden, as we follow the saying of the prophet :"Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small quantity of it is forbidden"
So that includes every drug that can intoxicate you.
And yes, I do follow it, I don't like the alcohol smell and I can socialize totally fine without it, so I'm okay with it.

>>18231535
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08GnFszwvI

Why do you guys straight up refuse to assimilate into your host nations, are you aware that your culture is shit, and is taqiya widely practiced?

>>18231535
So why do you treat women like shit, even when you're not in your own backward countries? I get harrassed by middle eastern guys regularly and I'm not a particularly revealing dresser or anything.

>>18231559
Okay so that's completely cultural. Actually, we're not even supposed to look at foreign women (foreign = not your wife, family, old women etc..), we're not supposed to be impolite, let alone harassing random women.
Them acting like apes has nothing to do with religion sadly. It's like honor killing, who the fuck decided that it was a good idea?

>>18231588
But the holy books say that men are allowed to beat their wives and women's testimony is worth much less than a mans.

>>18231594
Fake news.

>>18231588
>This entire post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
You people are a disease.

>>18231596

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/women-worth-less.aspx

and

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/wife-beating.aspx

This isn't some kind of right wing propaganda either, it's quoted directly from the quran.

Of course it depends on each individual how strictly they want to take the religious texts. I'm pretty sure there are some shitty bits in the bible as well.

Muslims: why do you hate white blonde females so much? Everywhere I go I'm harassed by them, often even by groups and I don't even dress in revealing clothes. If it's about some war revenge I think it's the most vicious thing to go after women. I have done nothing to you.

>>18231588

Do you not think it's directly linked to middle eastern culture though? You're told you can't touch foreign women, cannot fornacate out of marriage and cannot even masturbate. That must cause a lot of sexual frustration which manifests itself as sexualising women when you're not being judged by others who follow your religion.

>>18231602
Yea nigga every single muslim is practicing your made up theory to lie to everyone to trick them in the global conspiracy to take over the world which all muslims know about but never tell about.

Im not him or muslim but you're fucking ridiculous.
>>18231613
And this website is the very definition of a bias source.

>>18231553
Taqiya is something that I first heard about on the internet, and when I searched a little, j found that it's prohibited in every religious current, beside a small branch of shiism, knowing that shiism constitutes 10% of the Muslim word, people actually using it is probably less than 10 million.
And it's because Isis and the like uses mental gymnastics to use it like they want.

>>18231621

But it literally quotes the book. You can't really misinterpret what it's saying, as it's so clear.

I understand that the website itself has a agenda (which is clearly anti-Islam) but the information it gives is all accurate.

I'd genuinely be really interested to hear how it's incorrect from somebody who has a deep knowledge of Islam. I'd be interested to hear why you feel it's not valid information.

>>18231620
Even in our countries, harassment still happens. It's sad, but it became the norm. People are trying to change it, but it's hard to change the mentality.

And I was going to say it, since back in the days marriage was really early (my grand parents married at 18 and 13) and porn was non existent. But then I remembered a cousin of mine who has sex with a different women every week and still harasses women, so I don't think it's the only explication.

>>18231594
Okay, if you really want to understand it, I can give you a link which will answer your questions about that. Now if you're just going to scream taqiya, have a nice day.

>>18231621
Islam's openly stated end game is a "worldwide caliphate."

But you're right, I'm sure it's pure coincidence that they *never* assimilate into host nation culture, commonly send "refugees" over in mass to work and take money from the host community and send it back home, got state recognized Sharia courts in Britain, and simply cannot stop raping Nordic and German women.

You need to get woke, son. Western values are irreconcilable with the insanity of Islam.

>>18231631
There : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1azySjz4edk
It's a bit long, and made for Muslims (that speak Arabic) so you might miss some words, but I think you'll get the meaning.

>>18231635
M'kay. Everything else aside, I just don't like them and I don't want them here. Whenever I see some poor girl wrapped in a hijab, conditioned from birth to think of herself as some unclean piece of property, my skin crawls.

Not in my country, period. Oh, and clearly I'm not alone with these sentiments.

I'm at the point where I don't care if I'm right or wrong anymore, I'm tired of watching my culture erode, cannibalized by barbarians in the name of "progress."

So go ahead, call me a bigot, call me ignorant, I don't care. My convictions will not change. I'd rather be a villain than a traitor to my own cause.

>>18231632
Fuck off. Go home.

>>18231639
But tl;dr taken with context, the only situation where you can beat your wife is if she cheats on you (amd you don't want to go to court). And according to the prophetic tradition, only with a toothbrush, nowhere near the head and there should be no marks after that.

>>18231635
I do want to understand.

>>18231645
>conditioned from birth to think of herself as some unclean piece of property
Okay, who the fuck does that? I lived in a North-African country and I've never seen that. Like I'm confused, where did you heard about that?

>>18231647
Sorry, I thought you were>>18231631
Here is the link>>18231639

>>18231639

Thanks for the link, really interesting.

I still don't understand how you can misinterpret the religious text though. The video seems to be saying that it happens and it's excused by the Quran in one sense but it shouldn't happen (which makes sense) and wouldn't happened if it was interpreted correctly. Regardless of how much this guy is defending it, the Quran still states it is okay to hit a woman.

The guy seems like a very intelligent person and is doing a good job of explaining things but I can't help but feel it's going round the houses to excuse very negative behaviour which comes hand in hand with being a Muslim.

I should add, I'm not anti-islam and have no agenda to paint Muslims out to be evil. I'm just looking for explanations for issues I don't understand and I can only really find information with an obvious agenda either way.

I have another question for you (or anybody who wishes to respond). Do you feel Islam supports women's rights? And if so, do you feel it's equal to women's rights in general, or do you feel it's at a lower level in line with the religion?

>>18231637
>that they *never* assimilate into host nation culture
If you're talking about alcohol and the like, a hell lot of Muslims drink. They shouldn't but still.
If you're talking about the educational side, you can find a lot of PH.D. that are Muslims.
I don't understand, can you specify what you mean by *never*

>>18231673

I think what this anon is referring to is the habit of Muslim communities failing to integrate with existing white communities in certain countries.

I work in a city and I see this very clearly. However, I also see young Muslims integrating well - they just tend to be those who are educated or in university.

What I often see is Muslims who have been here for decades who for whatever reason, refuse to learn and speak English. It tends to be women.

I can completely understand why some Muslim communities choose not to integrate with existing communities. Firstly, their values are entirely different and secondly, white communities especially in the UK can be very intimidating. It makes sense that you would want to be around a group of people who hold the same core values and beliefs.

I do think this does more damage in the long run though and is one of the reasons why there is so much tension between the two communities, at least in the UK.

>>18231666
>the Quran still states it is okay to hit a woman.
Yup, fair enough. But if we follow the prophet's actions (which is considered as the 2nd most important origin of our religious rules), he never beat his wives, not even once. So I think that despite being able to (but just in case of cheating, which isn't supposed to happen), I still think it shouldn't be done by anyone

> I can't help but feel it's going round the houses to excuse very negative behaviour which comes hand in hand with being a Muslim.
That's not what I felt, this video for me was the reverse, he stated that beating shouldn't be allowed and he condemned the negative behavior.

>I'm just looking for explanations for issues I don't understand and I can only really find information with an obvious agenda either way.
That's really good, but you're right, it's hard to find good information. There is a certain site that I like, which is completely against the "Wahabism/Salafism" tendency which sadly kinda took over mainstream Islam, and really clears up a lot of misunderstandings. It's https://asharisassemble.com/ (however it's the Hanafi point of view, the laxest major school of Sunni Islam, so there is that)

>>18231689
>Firstly, their values are entirely different and secondly, white communities especially in the UK can be very intimidating. It makes sense that you would want to be around a group of people who hold the same core values and beliefs
Then why even come? Seriously. "Hey you know how where we live is completely shit because our culture is shit?" "Yeah." "Well lets move to another country, and not change at all."

>>18231689
I see what you mean, and you're right, when you're living in a foreign country, losing every "landmark" you had, you either blend in the existing community, or you stay with your peers that you can relate to.
But it's funny how some times ago an anon complained her about his asian (chinese iirc) parents who do the exact same in the US. His mother lived for 40 years there, and still don't speak a word of English. I don't think it's just Muslims who have this problem, it's more foreigners who just can't adapt.

>>18231718
>Then why even come?
I'm asking myself the same question, I don't really understand. My parents moved to France to study, and later came back to their homeland. Beside the fact that they wanted to be close to their family again, another reason that lead them to leave was that they didn't felt "at home", when you have white people eyeing you because you're wearing a scarf, the snarky remarks because my mother had 3 kids, etc.

Now that I've typed all that, I know why. Because life is easier, that it. You have every commodity you could wish for, roads, public transit, healthcare etc.Why would you leave then?

>>18231709
how do you deal with doubt? I'm a cultural Christian, or a non-theistic Christian if you will, in that I try to emulate Jesus. However, my ethics all though founded in Christian morality will always have secular reasoning behind it. If my secular thought contradics Christian doctrine as I understand it, I have no problem renouncing that bit of the doctrine. The story of Christ is more descriptive, than prescriptive for me. And I think that's the case for theistic Christians as well, even though they have trouble admitting it. What do you do when your secular reasoning contradicts the tenets of your scriptures?

The main way in which Islam differentiates itself from other Abrahamic religions is that you guys believe the Quran is not only the word of God, but the actual speech of God. Christians agree that scripture is man-made through revelation and thus lends itself better to interpretation and secularism. Islam is inherently more resistant to secular thought and lends itself better to literalism for the reason stated above. Couple this with the time at which it was written (religious state-building, warrior figures were heroes, environment conditioned our morality in an entirely different way from today) and it seems like you as a moderate Muslim will always lose an argument with a fundamentalist/literalist. They could always say if God wanted to give us a more nuanced take on these things, he would have dictated it as such. How do you deal with this resistance to secularisation? Do you see a reform under way?

>>18231756
>how do you deal with doubt?
With faith. Not the delusional "It's right, and asking more questions is bad" type, but more "I don't have every information on the subject but I'm confident someday I'll have enough understanding to clear the issue"

>What do you do when your secular reasoning contradicts the tenets of your scriptures?
There is always something that can reconcile both of my views. But I won't drop a bit of the doctrine just to satisfy a worldly desire. I just ask myself "What can I win from that? In this life? And in the After life?". Take interests as an example, what can I win from that? Money? I can have that from other sources, so I won't use money lending that involves interests. Done.
But I can't see anything that would be strong enough to make renounce to my doctrine, so I'm a bit biased.

>it seems like you as a moderate Muslim will always lose an argument with a fundamentalist/literalist
It seems like, but by rejecting everything that doesn't match their worldview, they are rejecting the basis of the religious doctrine, and that's exactly the reverse of what they claim to do. I may "lose" the argument but arguing to a wall that rejects every argument of mine won't change a thing (I don't know if I'm clear enough)
>They could always say if God wanted to give us a more nuanced take on these things, he would have dictated it as such
He did, it's just that by rejecting the contextualization (not complete contextualization, just the middle ground), you can go easily go overboard and that's what they did

>Do you see a reform under way?
Not a reform, but a returning to the roots. When critical thinking was more important than ideological bullshit. The Muslims need to have a greater understanding of the religion, on a theological (?) level, so we need to educate them first and that's really hard, when people don't want to. But I have some hope for the future, and I'll try my best to change how things are.

>>18231780
hey, I really wish you were right anon, but I feel that it's you who has a skewed historical contextualisation of Islam. Will get into it if this thread's still alive later, but have to go now and can't do it justice in a couple of lines. Anyways, I hope the contents of your moderate views will prevail. Whether you agree or disagree with me that Islam is problematic in itself, I'm sure you'll be on the same page as far as muslims being in a crisis goes. I hope your camp prevails. Really do.

How do you feel about ideological colonialism through marriage restrictions for women?

Even if you are right and I don't mind how you interact with Islam, I still wouldn't want Islam to be the most powerful philosophical beacon in the world. And it's not like the growing numbers are a mere natural product, doctrine clearly helps growing numbers.

>>18231795
>but I feel that it's you who has a skewed historical contextualisation of Islam
When I say historical, I really mean historical, how the companions of the prophet acted after his death, what was the reasoning behind it etc.
But I'll be glad to hear your reasoning, maybe we'll get to an agreement.

>I hope your camp prevails. Really do.
Thanks anon, I appreciate it.

>How do you feel about ideological colonialism through marriage restrictions for women?
That's a thorny issue lol, that's only my opinion but I think it's normal. I'll explain : if you have faith, then you want your children to go to Heaven, to have the right religion. Now, in a patriarchal society, children usually follows the father, you see where the problem is?
Of course, that completely forget that children have their own opinion and the father would only guides them but as the Baptist anon earlier said, when you're indoctrinated from birth, it's hard ti let go and having a Muslim husband will make it easier for them.

>And it's not like the growing numbers are a mere natural product, doctrine clearly helps growing numbers.
Yeah, I know, but it's like the number of Christians, if we count how much aren't just practicing Christians, the numbers would be much lower.
The main difference is that cultural Christians lean toward secularism while cultural Muslims usually tend to go for the honor killing bullshit.

>>18231709

Thank you very much for this - it really helped me to understand the difference between the actual writings and their interpretation.

The prophet Muhammad also married a 9 year old and consummated this marriage when she was 12. With this in mind, as the prophet married and had sex with a child and his image and existence is deemed to be the perfect Muslim existence, does Islam condone underage marriage and sex?

I know this is a very, very sensitive subject so please feel free to bypass the question if you'd prefer. It's one of the things I hear again and again with many people who are anti-Islam and I thought there must be more to it.

>>18231855
I just wrote a long answer but I erased it by accident, ugh.
I'll copy what I read elsewhere and give the sources :
"First of all, “Child Marriages” have never been allowed in Islam or at-least the consummation of these marriages. What Muslims have differed about is the definition of “Children”. Just two centuries ago, puberty in most cases was the defining point of physical and psychosocial maturity in most of the world. Because Muslim scholars are generally speaking mostly conservative people, they have been hesitant to change their views even in the face of mounting evidence that shows, contrary to earlier times, psychosocial maturity is delayed during today's times.

According to one author: because of the contemporary delay in maturity, marriage at puberty today would violate 6 basic Islamic rules:

1) “Rushd”, psychological maturity, or “prudent judgement” is required before marriage.
2) No one should harm anyone else.
3) People’s best interests must be observed.
4) No one should bear any burden beyond their capacity.
5) Governments and guardians are entrusted to act correctly.
6) Compliance to “urf”, new social norms that are considered good.”

http://www.muhaddith.org/earlymarriage/EarlyMarriage-part1.html and part 2 : http://www.muhaddith.org/earlymarriage/EarlyMarriage-part2.html

Also, I read an article that stated that she was 19 and not 9 that's conviced me, but I've read another article that refuted the arguments, so I will first research a bit more about it before talking about that

>>18231920
not the guy you replied to, but I can force myself to accept apologetics for behaviour driven by different environmental/historical factors. so yes, our definition of children has changed over time. yes, there is room for apologetics and rationalising these behaviours in accordance with our now evolved morals. but this is going to make you spend a lot of your time on reconciling a lot of Islamic theology with secular ethics, since Islamic scriptures are prescriptions from God, not fallible human revelations. You can do that, but is it not a Quixotic effort, since you're at the mercy of your biases and your Imam's biases, where you can pick and choose how to glide between the interpretative and literal reading according to your context/envornment?

>>18226903
>Black people: why do you dress like "thugs" and then complain about profiling?
I don't dress like a thug, is it ok if I complain about profiling now?

For you white guys and girls

How do you feel about having an Asian guy as a boss? I'm literally the only minority in a large office and I'm getting bumped up.

Would you have any different feelings or expectations regarding it or should I just chill out and stop over thinking?

>>18231963
Yes

>>18232186
mate, no one really gives a shit in real life unless you're particularly 'Asian'. To clarify, by that I don't mean an anti-Asian bias, but a distaste for people who visibly express their identities by tying solely to their ethnicity. Goes the same for any other single-issue identities.

I've had Muslim south-east Asian bosses, East Asian bosses, etc and never had a problem even though I might find parts of their cultural heritage objectionable. They never projected their identity like that so why would I go into full autistic rage over things like that.

You'll be fine, be professional, be nice, but don't look to buddy up with people under you - some like this but there's nothing that hurts work more than being forced to relate to someone both as a buddy and a superior. Good luck.

>>18232186

I don't mind at all - as long as you're suitable for the job. If you were a shit boss then I'd probably have an issue...but it'd be because you were shit, not because you were Asian.

>>18231920

I just wanted to thank you for this answer. I have to be honest, I was one of the people who had serious concerns about underage marriages within a religion. Your explanation has really changed my view. I feel like perhaps I haven't read enough independent sources regarding this, and will make an effort to do this going forward :)

>>18232244
You're welcome. I had the same concerns too, so it's only natural to help people see another point of view.
Finding real independent sources is really hard, I wish you luck in your research :)

>>18232186
Wouldn't bother me at all. My boss is black, and he isn't exactly an uncle Tom, but he takes care of his subordinates and gets shit done.

Contrary to what the left says, most white people aren't racist. Most of us don't give a shit what color you are as long as you're a good person, the only time we mind working with/below a PoC is if it's blatantly obvious they're getting hired/promoted for "diversity" and nothing else.

But for real, most of us couldn't give a shit what race you are. We're generally not fond of Muslims though, myself included, but that's an ideology, not a race.

>>18232244
Taqiya, anon. Those "people" will lie to us without hesitation to improve their PR.

>>18232710
>We're generally not fond of Muslims though
Why that?
How can you know that he's a Muslim?