How cruel is it to stay over at his house?

It's like you're asking for sexual harassment

>>18215800
to crash at his place? not cruel in and of itself.
to sleep next to him in his bed? that is cruel and leading him on emotionally.

unless you make it plainly clear you have no romantic feelings towards him he's going to get the wrong idea, and rightly so

>>18215800
>Sometimes he sort of flirts with me and he once told me he finds me attractive
Normal of guys to do this, idk about that facebook stalking thing though.

>>18215813
Pretty much this.

Take the couch.

>>18215800
Don't feel bad for the guys that offer. It's on them. I have a few guys that do a lot for me and I know it's because they like me and trying to impress. One guy gave me a new phone just because he knew another guy let me use his car for a month.

>>18215800
Not in itself if you make it clear you arent interested. Sleeping in the same bed is leading him on and not only is cruel, but could lead to something super awkward for both sides, possibly devastating the guy.

If you dont want to be a bitch, make it clear you want to take the couch.

>>18215935
Thanks /adv/ for letting me see what real women are like.

Jesus how hard is it not to lead someone on?
I felt like shit for refusing a friend, but here you go leading people on to get gifts and favors out of them.

These guys probably even think you would have the decency to turn away the offer.

>>18215935
Fuck you.

>>18215800
The crashing isn't a problem.

The sleeping next to him is. Yes, that is bad. Yes, his feelings for you will grow. And yes, you'd be fucking leading him on.

Listen, really closely.
If it seems romantically intimate, then, yes, you'd be leading him on by doing it while having no interest. You're showing interest without being interested, which is fucked.

>>18215800
dont be a fucking bitch. fuck him silly all night like the whore you are. then leave before he wakes up.

>>18216199
This.

>>18215800
If you don't follow that, do the world a favor and kill yourself.

>>18215800
He's an adult so treat him like one. Tell him that you suspect he has romantic feelings but you have no interest in him.

If he's still willing to have you over then he does so as a friend. You can talk about his feelings for you and deal with them together but you don't reciprocate.

DOn't listen to 4chan autists. Sleeping next to someone isn't all that intimate so it's not that big of a deal as long as you both know where you stand.

>>18216422
If you must share a bed with someone you've no interest in giving misapprehensions to at least go top and toes ffs.

>>18216422
Wrong. You dont share a bed with someone who wants to fuck you.

>>18216210
Those guys are clearly pussies bro, who gives chicks anything before fucking them?

>>18216422
This is crazy. if a chick slept next to me there is a 100% chance of me grabbing her by the pussy like the Don.

>>18215800
OP, are you mentally handicapped? You realize that hes literally counting down the days before he (expects to) fuck you, right?

>>18215813
This.

>>18216612
If you're at all attractive then some of your friends will want to fuck you. It's not that big of a deal. Your friend wanting to fuck you doesn't make them any less your friend.

As long as everyone knows where they stand, it's not a big deal.

>>18215800

He may just be horny. Why don't you just be a real pal and bone him?

>>18215800
If you share a bed with a man and are not expecting him to want/try to fuck you, then you're just naive. Don't dangle fresh meat in front of a hungry dog.

>>18216844
If you share a bed with them and you dont fuck them you are a malicious sadistic cunt.

>>18216844
Are you a female or a beta orbiter?

As Chris Rock once said, "men dont have platonic friends, just women they havent fucked yet"

>>18216978
Pfft. Yeah right. And would you say the same if I was male or if the ones who wanted to fuck were female.

Grow the fuck up. Either set boundaries, move on or get used to being sad you pathetic little bitchboy.

>>18217314
I would never sleep with a woman who wanted to fuck me without fucking her. Its wrong. You dont fuck with people like that you evil cunt.

>>18217387
Well I find that dumb but I don't really believe in saving people from themselves. It's up to everyone to be upfront and honest about their feelings and to act in their own best interests.

I also don't consider sharing a bed intimate. But I'm female so maybe for men it's more of a special thing. Females will share beds with relatives, friends and during organizational trips- people they don't even know so it's really not something special.

Maybe for guys, sharing beds seems intimate because you'll only ever do it with a partner, whether sexual or romantic.

Whatever, call me evil. I refuse to apologize for treating people as intelligent people who know what they can handle. If you can't handle sharing a bed with me then tell me to sleep on the floor. Your inability to communicate is not my problem.

>>18217441
>Females will share beds with relatives, friends and during organizational trips- people they don't even know

Not if they're male you heartless bitch. If a guy has a crush on you, of course he's going to want to sleep in the same bed as you. That's kind of the thing about having a crush--wanting to be as close to them as possible, even though you know you might never be together. And for you to even have an inkling that he feels that way, yet not see the issue with letting him sleep in the same bed as you? What the actual fuck?

>If you can't handle sharing a bed with me then tell me to sleep on the floor.
Yes because a guy is just going to kick a woman he deeply cares about out of the bed.

>>18217447
Or if they like her, have her take the bed and they take the floor. Either way, easy solution.

Sorry you don't wanna take responsibility for your own decisions but I expect nothing less on /adv/

>If a guy has a crush on you, of course he's going to want to sleep in the same bed as you.

Yeah but so will all my friends. Why's it my job to make decisions for you or figure out how you feel. It's not like I'm a liar. If someone starts showing signs of having a crush, I'll tell them straight up that there's no chance and I don't have feelings for them.

But either you're my friend or you're not. If you are my friend then I expect us to be honest with one another and I expect us to be able to coexist without walking on eggshells.

If you can't be my friend because of your own hangups then that's fine and I'll let you go do what's best for yourself. But don't wait in the wings and get mad when I treat you like any other friend.

Because that's what you are- a friend. Nothing more and nothing less.

>>18217459
until the next "friend" starts giving you free shit.

anybody else make sense of this lunacy?

>>18216350
T H I S

OP is a cumslut faggot

>>18218346
Its probably a 22 year old girl who really thinks that those guys are trying to be her friends.

>>18218346
While I get that women who take advantage of men's feelings are evil cunts, and men who let women take advantage of them by giving them shit out of romantic interest even though she's not interested are fucking beta dumbasses, I don't think that's what this femanon is arguing against.

As long as OP makes it CLEAR that she's not interested at all in the man, and the man is still okay with it, then it's fine. The thing is the man would probably not be okay with it. At the very least he'll make her sleep in another room or something. Femanon is an idiot if she thinks most men are completely okay with letting attractive women sleep next to them. It's like one step away from fucking.

Also women tend to underestimate how many of their male friends are mainly friends with them just because they're attractive.

Take what this anon said >>18216959
>If you share a bed with a man and are not expecting him to want/try to fuck you, then you're just naive. Don't dangle fresh meat in front of a hungry dog.

OP is looking to get sexually harassed if she sleeps IN THE SAME BED as him without making it explicitly clear. Even then, we don't know how much of a creep he is (I mean he stalked her on Facebook) so even then I wouldn't.

Basically, like everyone else has said to OP: FUCKING MAKE IT CLEAR. This was said in the last thread. If he no longer wants you to stay over, good. Better for him and you. This doesn't need any further discussion.

>>18218346

My friends don't give me anymore free shit than I give them.

>>18218352

This is basically my point. You're either my friend or not. Either I treat you like I treat all my friends, you establish boundaries or you're not really my friend and you fuck off.

Otherwise you're just waiting in the wings trying to fuck and getting mad when I won't try to read your mind like a carnival psychic.

>>18218352

Why do men lie about their intentions and then get buttmad when they don't get what they want.

>>18215800
crash there and pretend you're on your period. who cares if it's cruel?

>>18218415
Decent people.

>>18215935

This is the kind of thing that makes you stop and think about what sort of person you want to be.

Or it doesn't, if you're another sort of person.

>>18218427

They don't lose anything they weren't willing to give up. You're an adult, you can make your own decisions.

You wanna pretend to be my friend? Well I'll pretend not to notice.

>>18218427

Perhaps it's men who do shit like give women they're thirsting after new phones who should stop and think about what kind of person they are.

Seriously, why would you give someone something and then think that buys you access to having sex with that person? Like, beyond the shitty morality behind it, how could you be that fucking dumb?

>>18218412
Because they're cowards. Any adult ought to take responsibility for their own feelings and actions.

These guys apparently never get that memo.

>>18218471

It's like a Nigeria scammer getting mad when their intended victim reverse-scams them...

>>18218462
They're idiots for giving women shit in the first place, but if you accept their gifts knowing full well they're doing it out of romantic interest and you're not interested in them, that's called taking advantage of them, and you're an asshole for doing it.

>>18218412
Because being straight up doesn't work with women. Tell a man at a bar to go up to a woman and say "hey I want to fuck you" and see how well that goes, even though that's literally what women and men are at the bar for.

>>18215935
This is what Jewish media teaches females. Next this bitch will speak of feminism and prostitution/drug abuse in a favorable light.

>They're idiots for giving women shit in the first place, but if you accept their gifts knowing full well they're doing it out of romantic interest and you're not interested in them, that's called taking advantage of them, and you're an asshole for doing it.

It's only taking advantage if you make promises you can't keep. For whatever reason, some people like to live in their fantasy world and imagine that "I'm not interested in you" means "Give me enough shit and I'll love you".

I am not responsible for anyone's delusions. Grow up or get used to feeling sad.

>Because being straight up doesn't work with women.

And you think pretending to be her friend is the way into her heart? Yeah go ahead and lie to the object of your affection and never make your romantic interests known; I'm sure that'll make her wanna date you.

You want to date then ask for a date.You wanna be friends then be friends.

But you don't apply to work at Kroger if you really wanna work at Publix. And you don't pretend to want to be friends if you really want to date.

>>18218514
Stop accepting their shit and they'll get the message. By continuing doing it, you're enforcing that idea and are literally taking advantage of their love. You know what the fuck you're doing, so stop.

Also, most women only want to date people they already know (women here on /adv/ as well as many other places have said this), so if you want to date someone then yes you do have to pretend to be their friend.

>>18218526
Not if I accept while telling them we're only friends. At some point the men need to take responsibility of their own actions.

Knowing someone before dating them doesn't mean being their friend, it means talking to them a couple of times in a casual setting.

I am female and for many of us, once you are a friend, that's all you'll ever be. At best maybe you can go from friends to fwb or fuckbudddies.

Being a friend is an intimate bond and trust becomes impossible when it becomes apparent that all previous intimacy was under false pretenses. You lied to get close to me and I'm supposed to trust you now?

Feelings developing within a friendship isn't a problem because there is no deception and it is often mutual. Pretending to be my friend because you wanna date/fuck me is a violation of whatever bond I thought we had and means we were never really friends.

>>18218412
Seriously they are allowed to get mad that we don't wanna fuck them but we can't get mad that someone we thought was our friend was only pretending.

>>18218489

> They're idiots for giving women shit in the first place, but if you accept their gifts knowing full well they're doing it out of romantic interest and you're not interested in them, that's called taking advantage of them, and you're an asshole for doing it.

Why are women supposed to assume they're doing it for any reason? It's not my job to go around and try and decipher the hidden meanings behind peoples actions. If you offer a woman a cellphone and don't tell her you expect sex in return, you don't get to say she's a bitch because she doesn't give you what she never agreed to give you. You don't get to trick people into deals, it doesn't work and no one has sympathy when it backfires.


>Because being straight up doesn't work with women. Tell a man at a bar to go up to a woman and say "hey I want to fuck you" and see how well that goes, even though that's literally what women and men are at the bar for.

You know there's a middle ground, right?

Can't you just sleep on the sofa?

This is usually what I do if I'm staying at a friend's house, whether it's a man or a woman. It's a bit odd to share someone's bed who isn't your partner.

>>18218562
Different strokes for different folks.

I sleep in beds with my friends all the time. They're my friend and beds are comfier than couches. Just makes sense.

>>18218526

>Stop accepting their shit and they'll get the message

Lol when you try to refuse men STILL get mad and call you a bitch and try to force you to accept. There's literally no way to win.

>By continuing doing it, you're enforcing that idea and are literally taking advantage of their love.

You can't take advantage of someone trying to trick you.

>so if you want to date someone then yes you do have to pretend to be their friend.

No you don't. You can talk to them causally, you can let them know you are interesting in getting to know them better for the purpose of dating, there are a literally a million things you could do without the bullshit lying men chose to do.

>>18218568

Yeah I'll happily admit I have a thing with staying away from home anyway. I just like to be alone and in my own space.

>>18218553
>At some point the men need to take responsibility of their own actions.
And so do you, and that means stop accepting their gifts and taking advantage of them. Or don't, but don't pretend you're not a cunt for doing it, because you are.

What about the situation where he wants to date you from the beginning (or get to know you through dating) and you want to get to know him first and will only date him after you get to know him? You give him no choice but to pretend. Asking you out from the beginning is suicide. It's like you want men to be honest but then get upset when they are.

>>18218570
>Trying to trick you
They're not trying to trick you. It's fucking clear that they're giving you something and they expect something in return. When you don't do that and you still accept it, you're taking advantage of them. How is this hard to get?

In my world if you want to sleep in my bed you should first have sex with me.

Honestly I don't think I've ever been able to not, at the very least spoon her, you would need inhuman levels of faggotry to sleep next to a girl and willingly not touch her.

You're perfectly fine with using him to have a place to crash but now you're wondering if actually going through with it is cruel ? Girl, get some self awareness. What's cruel is that you ask the guy for favors in the first place when you know for a fact he's eager to please you while you have no intention of reciprocating.

>>18218587
No I want to talk to them in a casual setting. That doesn't make you a friend.

At most you should be a friendly acquaintance.

And are you talking about being a bf or just going on a date when you say
>will only date him after you get to know him

Because test obviously we need to know each other before we are in a relationship. But you do not need to be my friend to get me to go on a date with you. In fact, if you are my friend then you've shot yourself in the foot because any time we spend together will automatically be sapped of romantic potential.

Call me a cunt if you want but if I was lying or my actions were hurting me then I'd do something different.

>>18218570
>Lol when you try to refuse men STILL get mad and call you a bitch and try to force you to accept. There's literally no way to win.
Dude, come on.

I know the reverse (men negatively generalizing about women) is way more common on this board, what with men predominating on here, but it's still obnoxious, and more importantly, stupid and wrong.

"That's very thoughtful, and I do appreciate it, but I don't think I'm comfortable accepting this from you."

Plenty of dudes out there who'll get the hint and accept that without fuss. Yes, I know there are plenty who won't. I'm sorry you seem to have mostly run into the latter kind.

Regardless, so long as you've made your lack of romantic interest VERY clear, I don't think you're "taking advantage" of anybody and I think most people would agree with me. The problem is that men and women tend to communicate differently and despite hundreds of thousands of years of evidence not everyone seems to have gotten the memo, so a lot of the time people (of both sexes) think they've made their interest or lack thereof perfectly clear, and they absolutely haven't (which is also what's responsible for a lot of this behavior >>18218412)

If you literally say "I'm not interested in you" as in this post >>18218514 then you have certainly been clear enough. It's just that people (again, of both sexes) usually AREN'T that clear.

>>18218599

Only if she hasn't made where they stand clear. It's up to him whether he'd like to torture himself after that.

>>18218595

>They're not trying to trick you.

Yes they are. They're giving women things and expect to get sex from it, without ever actually stating that. That's a trick, a dumb, dirty, low trick and anyone who tries it deserves to be BTFO.

>It's fucking clear that they're giving you something and they expect something in return.

No, it's not.

>When you don't do that and you still accept it, you're taking advantage of them.

Again, when you're a sneaky little bitch, you don't get to claim you're being taken advantaged of.

>How is this hard to get?

How is it hard to get that buying a women shit isn't going to get you laid and you're a fucking little shit head for thinking it will?

>>18218595
Friends give each other things. It's not a big deal if you're not living paycheck to paycheck.

How am I supposed to know what you want if you don't clearly state it?

Even if they did want something in return, am I just supposed to guess at what it is?

Like does this meal come with a side of BJ or relationship?

No one lives inside your head but you. If you want something then you better at least ask for it.

I'd probably have more respect for these guys if they were honest from the jump: "Hey if I buy you this watch or give you a ride to the airport then you have to suck my dick." "Oh gross. I'll just ask someone else then".

At least then you aren't pretending as if being too much of a pussy you ask for what you want makes anyone who doesn't give it to you a cunt.

>>18217150
>As Chris Rock once said, "men dont have platonic friends, just women they havent fucked yet"
yes, but i can want to fuck my female friends and still be friends with them, cant i?

>>18218603

>Yes, I know there are plenty who won't.

You admit this, but you still get butthurt when it's pointed out that this is a thing that regularly happens.

>Regardless, so long as you've made your lack of romantic interest VERY clear

Why do women have to make their lack of romantic interest clear when men don't make their romantic interest clear?

> think they've made their interest or lack thereof perfectly clear

Except for in this scenario men aren't make themselves clear, on purpose. They give women material things and pretend like that's a reasonable signal, but it's not. There are a thousand reasons why someone might give a gift to someone else. Shit, I don't fucking walk into a Walmart and give a cashier $20 and get mad when that cashier doesn't run to get my toothpaste and accuse them of taking advantage of me and rant about how they should have know I wanted tooth paste.

>>18218622
>Shit, I don't fucking walk into a Walmart and give a cashier $20 and get mad when that cashier doesn't run to get my toothpaste and accuse them of taking advantage of me and rant about how they should have know I wanted tooth paste.

That's exactly what these guys are doing. Hilarious.

>>18218611
I never said it will. I've stated multiple times that these men are idiots for giving you free shit, but you're a cunt for accepting it.

You even stated yourself that "they expect sex in return" meaning you KNOW what they want from you and yet you're still accepting the gifts. So don't even pretend like you don't know or "its not clear."

If you know their intentions and you don't reciprocate on the gifts, no matter what context it is, you're taking advantage of them. If I buy someone a beer I expect one day the man to pay it back somehow, or at least appreciate me a little more. Not leech off me like spoiled asshole. If he didn't want anything to do with me he wouldn't have accepted my gesture.

>>18218616
Goddamn, I've stated multiple times, if you KNOW their intentions and don't plan to reciprocate on it, you're a cunt for accepting it.

>I'd probably have more respect for these guys if they were honest from the jump
No you wouldn't. You're advocating for people to treat you like shit from the get go. I guess fuck politeness and decency then.

>>18218622

>Why do women have to make their lack of romantic interest clear when men don't make their romantic interest clear?

Because it's not a legal contract, you goddamn sociopath, it's about empathy and understanding people's image and expectations of you. If you know someone's attracted to you and is acting nice towards you, but abuse it because "lol he didn't make his feelings clear, maybe he's just really nice to me for no reason at all !", you're not fooling anybody about what you really get from the situation.

>They give women material things and pretend like that's a reasonable signal, but it's not. There are a thousand reasons why someone might give a gift to someone else.

LOL
You're being disingenuous on purpose, nevermind
I'm not saying that their intentions are made clear, but it's pretty fucking easy to understand what's going on and it's unbelievable that you would pretend you don't.

>>18218626
The point is, in real life no one knows your intention but you. We can guess but it's no one's job to fucking sit you down like a seven year old and figure out what every one of your actions mean.

You're an adult. I don't know what you mean unless you say it. If you don't say anything then I'm going to assume it means nothing.

In case you aren't understanding, what we are discussing right now is communication skills. That is, recognizing how you feel and sharing that with someone else. You can't communicate based on gesture because different gestures mean different things to different people.

If I buy my friend dinner does it mean I wanna date him? Not for me but maybe it would for you. The only way my friend could know for sure is if I told him.

You gotta nut-up and say what you mean. It's a lot easier than lying or playing games.

>>18218626

>but you're a cunt for accepting it.

Out scamming a scammer doesn't make anyone a cunt, especially since half the time you're not even trying to outscam them, you're just accepting a gift someone offered you. Gifts aren't supposed to come with conditions, you socially illiterate scumbag.

>You even stated yourself that "they expect sex in return" meaning you KNOW what they want from you and yet you're still accepting the gifts. So don't even pretend like you don't know or "its not clear."

I've stated that because it's a thing men do. Men also give gifts because they genuinely like a person, because they feel sorry for them, because they have money to burn, because of a million other reasons. How am I supposed to know which of those reasons a particular case is? I can't, I'm not a fucking mind reader, no woman is.

>If you know their intentions

We don't.

>If I buy someone a beer I expect one day the man to pay it back somehow, or at least appreciate me a little more.

This is a really stupid, entitled assumption.

> Not leech off me like spoiled asshole

THEN DON'T BUT THEM STUFF YOU DUMB SHIT. NO ONE IS LEECHING OFF OF YOU WHEN YOU GIVE THEM GIFTS.

>If he didn't want anything to do with me he wouldn't have accepted my gesture.

Uh, yeah he would.

>>18218634
Right. The fucking women here are pretending like they don't know what's going on, even though the post that started this said

>Don't feel bad for the guys that offer. It's on them. I have a few guys that do a lot for me and I know it's because they like me and trying to impress. One guy gave me a new phone just because he knew another guy let me use his car for a month.

She knew what she was doing and she still did it. How are people defending this?

>>18218637
>Uh, yeah he would.
If he was a cunt like you he would. Pardon me for expecting decency out of people.

Sorry, didn't realize women are fucking retarded when it comes to this shit. Most men know how to respond to kind gestures. They don't just take it and say "fuck you lol"

>>18218636

Yeah, absolutely no one ever reads into a situation from contextual clues and forms an opinion, we all just wait for everything to be told to us directly.

I never fucking infer someone's likelihood to feel a certain way based on what I know about him and his history. I never think about what a gift could mean, I just take them at face value and assume the other person is just randomly nice to everyone.

You're perfectly right, that's how human interactions work.

It's hilarious that you'd think you have any license to call other people out on being bad at communication. You basically admitted to being autistic.

>>18218634

>Because it's not a legal contract, you goddamn sociopath, it's about empathy and understanding people's image and expectations of you

Exactly, it's not a contract and women don't owe you shit no matter what or how much shit you give them. It's not women's jobs to guess or assume what men expect of them. We don;t know who is and isn't attracted to us, unless they say so, and no, a gift isn't saying so. Same with "being nice".

>You're being disingenuous on purpose, nevermind

No, I'm being realistic, it's you and men like you who are liars and disingenuous.

> it's pretty fucking easy to understand what's going on

No, it fucking isn't.

>>18218630
I definitely would. I've had guys who wanted to fuck me but lied about wanting to be my friend. I didn't respect him after that and began to find him a little repulsive.

I've also had guys straight up hit on me and I turned them down. I wasn't interested but I respected them more. than that other loser.

>I guess fuck politeness and decency then.

There is a difference between tact and outright deception. Pretending to be someone's friend is the opposite of decency.

The dude telling me a ride costs a BJ is a total cunt but he's less a cunt than the other guys who feel the exact same way but are too cowardly to say it.

>>18218639

Because she never explicably agreed to anything. If you dance around what you want, don't bitch when we dance around not giving it to you.

>>18218634
I buy my friends gifts and act nice to them because they are my fucking friend.

>>18218645

Accepting a gift with grace is begin decent. Trying to trick people with gifts isn't. You're a liar, and bitching because people either see through your lies and outplay you, or genuinely misinterpret your motives and still don't give you what you want. Either way you're the asshole here, not your victims.

>>18218650
Not saying you want a BJ from the get go increases your chances of getting a BJ, because you're hopefully building a connection with someone who will give you one.

You want them to be honest up front so you can shut them down quicker. That's not what they want.

>>18218645
You're using gestures instead of words and you're mad they are misinterpreted.

Just say what you mean. It's not that hard ffs.

>>18218647

>Exactly, it's not a contract and women don't owe you shit no matter what or how much shit you give them

of course not, who the fuck is arguing the contrary

>It's not women's jobs to guess or assume what men expect of them

that's completely fucking wrong tho
it's your job as a decent human being, it's everyone's job to feel empathy for other persons and treat them in a way that isn't harmfull to their well being. You sound like an incredibly bitter person that doesn't mind behaving antisocially because you're just that infatuated with yourself, but for us to live in an harmonious society we also need to be mindfull of not being abusive towards the people we have power over. That's what it means to be a decent person. I understand the concept is foreign to you but this is what /adv/ is for.

>No, it fucking isn't.

Yes, it is. You just admitted to doing it on purpose. Why are you lying about this ?

>>18218646

>Yeah, absolutely no one ever reads into a situation from contextual clues and forms an opinion, we all just wait for everything to be told to us directly.

When it comes to certain things, like romance and sex, yes, you better be direct. On top of that, reading into a situation ALWAYS comes with assumptions and misunderstandings. If you're not going to be clear, don't be butthurt when your messages aren't interpreted the way you want, because it comes with the territory.

> I just take them at face value and assume the other person is just randomly nice to everyone.

Why are you so fucked up you think this is an unreasonable thing to do?

>>18218659

Whatever happened to show don't tell ? Or did you never go to school ? That might explain the autism.

>>18218659
Tell that to the women who use "signs" in hopes the man will get the message and approach them instead of approaching the man themselves.

Women in general are way worse when it comes to not making things clear.

>>18218622
>You admit this, but you still get butthurt when it's pointed out that this is a thing that regularly happens.
Yes, and there are plenty of women who DO deliberately lead guys on, but I suspect you'd still find a flat statement like "women are teases who lead men on" to be a little obnoxious, despite the fact that it "regularly happens." You understand?

>Why do women have to make their lack of romantic interest clear when men don't make their romantic interest clear?
Are you a child? Other people behaving badly doesn't give you carte blanche to behave badly in turn.

Both sexes are under an obligation to make their intentions clear.

>Except for in this scenario men aren't make themselves clear, on purpose. They give women material things and pretend like that's a reasonable signal, but it's not.
See above:
>The problem is that men and women tend to communicate differently
You don't understand their signals, they don't understand your signals. Both parties think they're communicating clearly. Both are convinced they're objectively in the right, and that the other is being absolutely unreasonable. Who's right?

Neither, obviously.

Communicate directly. Communicate EXPLICITLY. Don't send "signals." If you're not willing to do that, then accept that when miscommunications happen (and they will happen) that you're just as guilty as they are.

Incidentally, this is also good advice for people who are already in relationships, even married, and are frustrated when their partner doesn't seem to understand what they're trying to get across.

>>18218646
>I never fucking infer someone's likelihood to feel a certain way based on what I know about him and his history. I never think about what a gift could mean, I just take them at face value and assume the other person is just randomly nice to everyone.

Id they became friends with me because they wanna date me then their behavior would have been the same at all points of the relationship.

'm not expecting an adult to want me to guess at what they're feeling.

This whole conversation is basically men's version of "Well if you really loved me then you'd know why I'm upset".

>>18218639

That woman is a opportunist. That is one woman (who might not even be a woman) responding with clear bait which you all fell for. Not really representative of the entire female population.

I don't know why you're all getting so mad.

>>18218661

>Why are you so fucked up you think this is an unreasonable thing to do?

Because it is an unreasonable thing to do, the only reason you don't think so is that you've become so accustomed to using people attracted to you that you don't even realise what normal human interaction is like.

>>18218657
You don't need a connection to get a BJ, you just need a hookup. The fact that men try to form a connection just for sex is exactly why women feel lied to.

>>18218663
They are both stupid. Using signs is dumb, ineffective and juvenile.

>>18218665

>This whole conversation is basically men's version of "Well if you really loved me then you'd know why I'm upset".

That's all because you have extremely poor overall communication skills and you're not understanding what's being said at all.

Nobody is asking for people to reciprocate favors for affection. People are telling you to not accept favors from people you might suspect are trying to win you over with this kind of behavior out of basic human decency.

How hard you argue for your right to play dumb in those situations and take every favor you can get speaks volume on your character, to be honest.

>>18218660

>of course not, who the fuck is arguing the contrary

Men like you

>that's completely fucking wrong tho

No it isn't.

>it's your job as a decent human being, it's everyone's job to feel empathy for other persons and treat them in a way that isn't harmfull to their well being.

No it isn't.

>You sound like an incredibly bitter person that doesn't mind behaving antisocially because you're just that infatuated with yourself, but for us to live in an harmonious society we also need to be mindfull of not being abusive towards the people we have power over

Lol women don't have power over men, and not splending you every waking moment trying to decipher lies so mens's fee-fees don't get hurt isn't antisocial. Again, why aren't MEN the ones who are supposed to interpret MY feelings? Why can't YOU read a woman's expressions and actions when taking your gift and either realize you wasted your money? Why isn't the burden on you? Oh, that's right, because you're a spoiled brat.

>Yes, it is. You just admitted to doing it on purpose

No it isn't, and no I didn't. Why are you ignoring that there are multiple possibilities of why a guy might give someone a gift, and pinpoint ONLY ONE of those possibilities? I'll tell you why, it's because you're a liar and scammer, and you're trying to trick people.

>>18218677

>Men like you

Okay, you're actually clinically retarded or baiting, either way I'm out, good show

>>18218662
If you weren't a fucking idiot you'd realize that advice is for creative works because exposition makes things boring. "Show don't tell" would apply if you were writing a screenplay.

Communication is the opposite. It needs to be straight-forward, honest and unambiguous.

>>18218668
>opportunist
You mean a cunt right? I mean she can accept the gifts all she wants but don't try to argue that she's not a shit person for doing it.

>>18218670
Yeah, go to a bar and tell men to just walk up to women and ask for a BJ and see how well that works, even though everyone there is there for a hookup.

Spoiler: it never works because being straight up and honest like that doesn't work.

>>18218677

Absolute savage.

(I agree though)

It's funny because I see so many guys on here talk about female entitlement but they have a higher sense of entitlement than any woman I have ever met. The irony.

>>18218674
And what you aren't getting is that no one is playing dumb.

I legitimately don't know what you want unless you use your words instead of 'signs' like some housewife stereotype.

>>18218685
Right because tinder isn't an app made exclusively for hookups. And craigslist doesn't have tons of ads for chicks who won;t to suck a dick.

What you're really saying is that in order for you to get sex you want from the women you want, you have to trick them.

File: 2342.png (785KB, 723x632px) Image search: [Google]

785KB, 723x632px

>>18218677
>spoiled brat.
>Says the woman who takes shit from men for free

>>18218669
>Because it is an unreasonable thing to do,

No it's not

>the only reason you don't think so is that you've become so accustomed to using people attracted to you that you don't even realise what normal human interaction is like.

Yep, because none of those other scenarios EVER happen. Just listen to yourself. It's you who have such a fucked view of women, gifts, and the world that you don't know what normal human interactions are.

>>18218660
Practicing empathy means putting myself in someone else's shoes. If I were to give someone a gift, it wouldn't be because I wanted to fuck them. If I were to buy someone a meal, it wouldn't mean I wanted to date them.

All anyone knows is how they would feel in a situation which may or may not be how another person would feel. The only way to know is to say your feelings outloud.

>>18218691
No, I'm saying you can't be outright and obvious about it because women don't want that. Honestly tell me how many people you've fucked because they straight up went up to you and asked for it? How many people do you know do that? Hookups don't work that way.

Getting a girlfriend isn't as simple as walking up to the girl and asking them to be your girlfriend.

Again, you want them to be honest just so you can shut them down quicker. In reality being honest like that doesn't work, and you have to be tactful on getting what you want.

This whole thread reveals the results of years of telling men not to talk about their feelings and to just suck it up.

All of these guys are trying to use actions to get away from having to honestly talk about their emotions.

>>18218700

Good job literally failing at empathy
You don't literally put yourself in the same situation as they are in you goddamn autist

You take their feelings and history into account to try to understand their tought process, your own personality and decisionmaking is completely removed from the experience.

Jesus christ everyone in this thread is a goddamn sociopath

>>18218664

> I suspect you'd still find a flat statement like "women are teases who lead men on" to be a little obnoxious

I do find is obnoxious, because I don't think it happens regularly. I think it's very rare. Nice try though.

>Are you a child? Other people behaving badly doesn't give you carte blanche to behave badly in turn

Women not being able to clear state their lack of interest because men chose not to clearly state their interest isn't behaving badly. You can't turn down a sales pitch if it's never given to you, and again, a gift is not a sales pitch.

>You don't understand their signals, they don't understand your signals.

But their signals are the ones that come with conditions, and their signals are the ones that when you apply to other scenarios are shown to be complete bullshit.

>If you're not willing to do that, then accept that when miscommunications happen (and they will happen) that you're just as guilty as they are.

Again, you aren't guilty of miscommunication when you aren't given correct information. If you cable line is bad and that makes the TV picture bad, it's not the TV's fault, it's the cables.

>>18218692

Next time you accept a free sample from a company I hope they call you a fucking slut and a bitch when you don't buy their product. After all you KNEW they gave you that sample jsut so you would buy their product and you took advantage of them and didn't, you fucking bitchwhoreslutpigfatwhaleshitbitchpussyhavingfuckasspieceofshit

>>18218701
Getting a girlfriend is as simple as talking to a girl you find attractive in a casual setting and then asking them on a date.

And yes obviously on a hookup you don't just ask for a BJ, but you damn sure don't pretend to be their friend either. You flirt and keep it casual and let things build from there.

Either way you don't fucking deceive women just to get what you want. That's not tact, that's taking advantage of someone who cares about you.

>>18218712

Companies don't expect people that try free samples to buy the product

>>18218680

Lol flounce out.

>>18218705
For instance right now, practice some empathy. Put yourself in my shoes?

Why would I be saying the things that I'm saying?

You can call me an artist all you want but if you think you are able to perfectly guess what someone else is thinking then you either have a very low level of self-awareness or you haven;t met that many people.

>>18218714

According to your logic, yes they do, and it's the consumers job to have EMPATHY for that poor company and either refuse their samples(which still makes them a bitch) or take their sample and then buy their product because WHY ELSE would a company EVER give ANYONE a free sample? Other possibilities DON'T EXIST and you KNOW IT.

>>18218713

I'm honestly having a hard time keeping track of all your retarded arguements with how hard you're gish galloping

Are you implying this is a male-specific behavior ? Are you saying women don't act this way ?

Are you losers seriously giving people gifts and getting mad when they don't date you?

This mindset is so foreign it's hilarious.

>>18218720

So how long did the doctor stare at you asphyxiating before they realized you needed directions on how to breath ?

>>18215935
what a sad post

>>18218722
Do women pretend to be men's friends and get mad when treating them like a friend doesn't get them laid.

Maybe but I've never heard of it happening.

>>18218724
No, I'm not giving women shit for free. I'm not retarded. I'm simply arguing that the women accepting these gifts knowing full well men are doing it out of romantic interests are shitty people. Doesn't make the men doing it less stupid though.

>>18218725

>I don't have an argument so here's a piss weak insult

Very poor showing

>>18218716

>For instance right now, practice some empathy. Put yourself in my shoes? Why would I be saying the things that I'm saying?

I don't need empathy for that, you're ignorant of the meaning of a word and instead of admitting to it and making research you default to saying it's actually impossible

not being autistic helps, sorry this is a lost cause for you

>>18218732

I don't know that I agree with this.

I also don't think women know what guys are thinking nearly s much as guys think.

>>18218736
Yeah drip that sweet irony all over me baby

>>18218735

You implying your middle school grade spazing out was worth debunking ? lol

Look up reductio ad absurdum one time in your life, maybe it'll give you some self awareness on how bad you are at this

>>18218732

Again, even in the cases where a woman suspects that a man is doing this, why is out scamming a scammer bad? Why do you consider someone defending themselves and getting revenge from being lied to as shitter people than the people who lied to them in the first place?

>>18218740

So you also don't know what irony means ?

Jesus fucking christ dude read a goddamn book

>>18218741
>Doesn't understand analogy
>Thinks it makes the other person dumb

>>18218742

>why is stealing from a thief bad

you are this retarded

>>18218741

Still don't have an argument I see. I would tell you to fuck off because you're shitting up the thread, but honestly you're not shitting it up any worse than you already have with your entitlement and weaselly little bullshit.

>>18218744

It being an analogy would imply both situations are analogous
They aren't

>>18218745

>shooting a thief trying to rob you is worse than the thief trying to rob you

Are you a BLM supporter?

>>18218743
em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/Submit
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

>>18218736
>Doesn't understand another's feelings
>While talking about how the other person sucks at empathy

i·ro·ny1
ˈīrənē/
noun
a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result

>>18218750

Dude your analogies are embarassingly awfull

>>18218749
a·nal·o·gous
əˈnaləɡəs/
adjective
comparable in certain respects, typically in a way that makes clearer the nature of the things compared

>>18218751

This might come to a shocker to you but there are big boys dictionnaries that have definitions longer than a sentence

We typically move to those once we graduate from highschool

>>18218752

Lol k.

>>18218742
Who's lying? The man is giving the woman a gift out of romantic interest. The woman knows this. She isn't interested in return. She still accepts the gift with no intention of reciprocating or recognizing the romantic interest. She is effectively taking things from the man for free.

If she knows he's interested but she isn't interested, denying the gift confirms that. Accepting the gift signals that she is interested or that there is a possibility. The woman is now lying about her interest.

>>18218745
I don't feel bad about scamming someone who is actively trying to scam me. I wouldn't feel bad about killing someone who was trying to kill me. That's basically what the situation is.

You don't have to agree but morals are personal, not universal.

>>18218754

In what respect is a company giving free samples so word of their product gets across analogous to someone trying to buy affection through gifts ?

A company doesn't expect anything from the person that tries the sample besides them giving feedback on the product and talk about it to other people if they liked it. They don't expect them to buy the product, they expect them to do some indirect advertising for them. They don't mind that a lot of people don't, because advertising's impact is usually hard to quantify, they just care that the word gets across that their product exists.

>>18218755
>Is still trying to come across as an authority
>Doesn't understand the meanings of basic words

>>18218710
>I do find is obnoxious, because I don't think it happens regularly.
Then you're naive. There's plenty of shitty people out there. I am sure that YOU and your friends, lovely people that they must be, aren't guilty of this, but that doesn't change the fact that it happens. The reason we have an idiom for it, "leading people on," is that it happens.

Cold truth is that many, many people of both sexes often behave badly in lots of ways, none of which justifies statements like "men/women do [bad behavior]", given how many of them ... don't.

>But their signals are the ones that come with conditions, and their signals are the ones that when you apply to other scenarios are shown to be complete bullshit.
You mean your toothpaste analogy? Dude, I didn't respond to it because it's moronic.

I'm inclined to agree with the guy above who said you were being disingenuous on purpose, at this point.

>>18218760
>The woman is now lying about her interest.
In other words, leading him on, taking advantage of him.

Just to make that clear.

>>18218760
They are pretending to be their friend to lower the woman's guard as they try to win romantic affection or sex rather than making their intentions clear from the get-go.

>>18218764

and your uneducated ass would believe that's ironic, but it isn't, because irony doesn't mean "someone pretending to be something they aren't".

>>18218772
>making their intentions clear.
I'm talking about the case where the woman knows the man is doing it out of romantic interest. That's why people are upset over >>18215935

>>18218767
Friends give each other gifts. Maybe male or poor people friendships work differently, I wouldn't know.
But I buy all my friends gifts and tokens of appreciation and it's not an indicator of romantic interest.

A gift isn't a romantic gesture unless you are already in a romantic relationship.

>>18218773
>Is still talking
>Has nothing interesting to say

>>18215800
Tease him sexually and lead him on, see how far he'll go for you.

>>18218778

who are you quoting

>>18218776
The point is that he is giving it to you out of romantic interest and you know this, and yet you STILL accept it.

I'm not talking about the cases where maybe it's not. You know and he knows, and you still accept it.

>>18218776

It's almost like context is important and a gift from a recent or distant acquaintance is different than a gift from a longtime friend.

People's resources are finite and there's a good amount of decision making that goes into deciding how to spend said resources. If someone is spending money on you, that means he has a lot of appreciation for you, and unless they're a close friend, there's something suspicious going on.

That's literally all that's being said, yet all of you sperg out like that's some fucking secret uncrackable code.

>>18218760

>Who's lying?

The man, because he never outright says "I'm giving you this and I'm expecting sex in exchange for it and if you don't give me sex I'll become hostile and call you names".

>The woman knows this.

The woman may suspect this, but again, because she isn't a mind reader she never truly knows.

>She still accepts the gift with no intention of reciprocating or recognizing the romantic interest. She is effectively taking things from the man for free.

Because he's trying to trick her. Because he's not being upfront and honest.

> Accepting the gift signals that she is interested or that there is a possibility. The woman is now lying about her interest.

No, the woman is turning the tables and not clearly stating that she'll accept the gift, but not sleep with the man, the same way the man never said he expected sex.

Don't bitch when you get what you put out.

>>18218760
Accepting a gift doesn't indicate romantic interest.

You can't attach stipulations to other people's actions without telling them.

>>18218788

>The man, because he never outright says "I'm giving you this and I'm expecting sex in exchange for it and if you don't give me sex I'll become hostile and call you names".

That's not what the gift means tho.
The gift means "I'm giving you this so you'll consider me in a more positive light than you would otherwise, so that I can speed up the progress of our relationship."

I understand you've had a few bad experiences but you trying to generalize this hard that this is what a man's gift means is fucking cringeworthy

>>18218763

You are so fucking stupid.

Companies both expect feedback AND people to buy their product. They accept and realize that either or none of those things can occur.

Men give a gift to women for free,and then expect only when possible outcome when there are multiple possibilities. It is perfectly analogous. It is people give something away for free with a certain set of expectations, only at least the companies account for different outcomes don't bitch when their expectations aren't meet.

>>18218788
The original post that this stems from is from a woman who KNOWS the men like her and she is accepting the gifts. Holy fuck I feel like I've made this point multiple times. Oh wait I actually have

>>18218775
>>18218760
>>18218489
>>18218639

She KNOWS she's taking advantage of these men. And you're defending it because you're a cunt person.

Accepting the gift is an expectation of SOMETHING. When you don't reciprocate KNOWING that he expects you do, you are a cunt.

He's not trying to trick her. He knows what it's about. She knows what its about. There's no trickery involved on his part.

I've repeated myself so many times, you people are trying to not understand.

>>18218788

Do you split the bill on your dates or do you assume it's the man's role to say you guys will before you walk into the restaurant ?

>>18218787
>suspicious
Possibly but a suspicion isn't a fact and I'm hardly a bitch for taking a gift from a friend if the other party hasn't made a romantic intention clear.

Also don't know why you are bringing up acquaintances. That's a different situation and one that is much easier to deal with.

>>18218793
Maybe that's what the gift means to you or maybe for another guy it means "at some later point I am expecting sex" or maybe it means "you're a good person and I know you don't have enough money to buy this for yourself".

The point is there is no way for a woman to know what a man means until the man is straightforward.

>>18218766

>Then you're naive

No, I'm realistic. I have never lead anyone one, none of the women I know have ever lead anyone on, and by all statistics I've ever seen it's not an issue.

>You mean your toothpaste analogy? Dude, I didn't respond to it because it's moronic

Ah yes, every analogy that shows how bullshit your lien of argument is is "moronic".

>I'm inclined to agree with the guy above who said you were being disingenuous on purpose, at this point.

The feeling is mutual

>>18218796
Dumbass, there are multiple people here arguing multiple points. It's not all about you.

>>18218795

>Companies both expect feedback AND people to buy their product. They accept and realize that either or none of those things can occur.

They don't literally expect the person that tries the sample to buy the product, not to the point that they feel offended if they don't, anyway. You have a very poor understand of how advertising works.

>Men give a gift to women for free,and then expect only when possible outcome when there are multiple possibilities.

that was almost a sentence, good attempt

>It is perfectly analogous

no it isn't
a company isn't targeting a specific individual. It is relying on word to mouth for indirect advertising. That's what samples are for. A man is targetting a specific individual and hoping to get their attention through that gift and manipulate them into either feeling endebted or associate positive virtues to them (generosity, affluence, availability to you). A company delivering samples is doing none of those things. It doesn't expect you to think better of them because they gave you a sample lmao.

the situations have literally nothing in common. Only a retard would think they do. This is as bad as a fucking food analogy for books.

>>18218798
I usually pay for my bill because of exactly shit like this. Guys buy you dinner and then start acting entitled.

>>18218799

>recent or distant acquaintance that has demonstrated attraction towards you
>a friend

it's starting to make sense
this is how you view people
people that give you things are friends

>>18218807
Glad you agree then.

>>18218816
I literally said bringing up acquaintances doesn't make sense in this conversation.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. Maybe it's time you go to bed.

>>18218813
What's so hard to understand about returning a gesture? If you don't want to return the gesture, deny it in the first place or at least make it clear that you won't if he decides to do it anyway.

>>18218793

>That's not what the gift means tho.

It is what it means

>The gift means "I'm giving you this so you'll consider me in a more positive light than you would otherwise, so that I can speed up the progress of our relationship."

Even if this were true, it's never stated. You're still lying. On top of that, a women isn't obligated to view a man in a more positive light because he gives her something. Even the very basis of your line of thinking is false and ridiculous.

>but you trying to generalize this hard that this is what a man's gift means is fucking cringeworthy

I've given multiple possibilities of what a man's gift could men, it's men like who who keep insisting that the ONLY meaning could be "want sex you give yes?"

>>18218796

I'm defending her because that man is a cunt first. Lying to people is being a cunt. Trying to trick people is begin a cunt. Obscuring your motives and then claiming "WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING" is being a cunt. YOU ARE A CUNT. Stop fucking defending mens shitty behavior, and stop doing shitty behavior.

>>18218813

so it took you getting burned a few times and getting called out on it before you realized you weren't owed the bill being paid for free then ?

>>18218824

>It is what it means
>it's men like who who keep insisting that the ONLY meaning could be "want sex you give yes?"

lol

>>18218798

I always split bills, and I've been given flack by men because of it. Do you always act like a spoiled brat and then bitch when you don't get your way?

>>18218824
THEY'RE NOT OBSCURING THEIR MOTIVES. Both parties ALREADY know. GIRL U DENSE

>>18218822

Because you not understanding why they were brought up doesn't mean they aren't relevant to the conversation, which is about the meaning of gifts in an ambiguous situation

You're contradicting yourself in saying that you can't necessarily infer the meaning of a gift, which is true, but then you go and say gifts from acquaintances don't relate to the situation, only gifts from people you barely know do. So are you saying it's hard to understand why a man you barely know would spend money on you ? Is that the parameters we're working with ? Keep in mind you can't go back to arguing "I give gifts to my friends all the time and I don't wanna have sex with them" if you say yes.

>>18218829

You're a goddamn fucking hero for paying for your own meal. You should get a monument or something, what a strong and independent woman.

>>18218818
I don't entirely actually. Giving a romantic gift is a hope not an expectation.

Accepting a romantic gift when you don't reciprocate is only cruel if you lie about the way you feel.

Many times people (men and women) are completely honest about having no romantic interest and the other person keeps jumping through hoops because they want what they can't have.

In my book, you can only lead someone on if you lie to them. Whatever they read into your actions is in their own head and has nothing to do with you.

If that accepting party is being honest then I don't think that makes them a cunt. I get where you are coming from, I just don't agree.

>>18218843

>Accepting a romantic gift when you don't reciprocate is only cruel if you lie about the way you feel.

Agree on that, but the situations we're often given involve the woman not being very straightforward with her rejection either. A lie by omission is still a lie, dodging the subject and responding with half assed "I don't think I'm looking for a relationship right now" isn't exactly communicating your feelings openly and honestly.

>>18218823
The problem isn't that I'm unwilling to pay. The problem is that when guys pay they get clingy, possessive or entitled.

I'd rather always pay for myself and avoid the headache.

>>18218810

>They don't literally expect the person that tries the sample to buy the product, not to the point that they feel offended if they don't, anyway.

Yes, they do. They hope that by getting someone to try the product, it will directly lead to that person buying more of it.

> not to the point that they feel offended if they don't

Because companies, unlike men, aren't delusional and don't think that a person accepting their free sample means they're obligated to buy their product.

>You have a very poor understand of how advertising works.

Says the person who think companies aren't trying to increase their sales.

>a company isn't targeting a specific individual

A company is targeting anyone who takes their free samples, their gifts.

>A man is targetting a specific individual and hoping to get their attention through that gift and manipulate them into either feeling endebted or associate positive virtues to them (generosity, affluence, availability to you).

First of all, how is any women supposed to know that a man is only buying her gifts? He could be buying gifts for every women he meets for all I know. Second, a company is also targeting a person in order to manipulate them into feeling positive about them so they'll buy more products.

>A company delivering samples is doing none of those things. It doesn't expect you to think better of them because they gave you a sample lmao.

Yes they do, they hope you'll associate them with good things and enjoy their product so you'll come back for more.

>>18218830

Yes, they are. Sometimes they don't know, and even when they do they're still not telling their conditions for the gift. THAT IS LYING. You so fucking stupid and unrealistic. Yuo are life a child, who doesn't realize that people don't know what is going on in your head and have different experience. Women are not NPCs.

>>18218825
No one has ever called me out on it because I've never let a dude pay. I've seen these patterns in friends and acquaintances. I realized men's favors or gifts always come with strings and I'd rather go without then be treated poorly for no reason.

>>18218846

Stay in school kids

>>18218841

And you're a god damn fucking martyr for pretending to be a woman's friend and thirsting so bad so buy he shit and then get mad when she doesn't give you something she never agreed to give you. The burdens Jesus bore PALE in comparison to your poor trails and tribulations.

>>18218843
It would be more acceptable if the woman says
>Thank you for the gift but I'm not interested.

Not as good as denying the gift, but better. Some men might still interpret this as you taking shit from them for free, though. Most might not. At least they know not to send her more. But I think some women keep this a secret just so these men can continue giving them free shit, and to that I say those women are cunts.

>>18218848

>I realized men's favors or gifts always come with strings

so we agree it's completely possible to understand why a man would give gifts to a woman, and thus its possible for the woman to refuse the gift to not lead the male on exactly like you've been doing

so why did it take 150+ posts for you to admit to it, and why does it seem to make you so bitter

>>18218838
Are you not a native English speaker?

The conversation was about friends not acquaintances. Acquaintances and friends are not synonymous.

An acquaintance is someone you know and have conversations with but aren't close to.

In terms of closeness it goes:
stranger<acquaintance<friend<best friend

Does that make my previous statements clearer?

After 180+ posts, we finally learn it was really about a couple of women bitter that they have to split the bill of a date so the man doesn't think they have a foot in the door.

Amazing

>>18218861

>The conversation was about friends not acquaintances

No it wasn't. The conversation is about women accepting gifts from men that have shown romantic interest in them. Those are not friends. They may invest themselves emotionally in you in ways that are similar to that of a friend, but that does not mean they want the relationship to limit itself to that.

>>18218847
>Sometimes they don't know
God fucking dammit, I'm saying IF they do.

Honestly, it's pretty fucking obvious when men send you gifts romantically. The original poster knew it. Maybe you're just socially retarded.

Women expect men to pick up on their "signals" yet you can't tell if a gift is romantic or not? Fuck off. Men deal with that shit all the time.

>>18218858

A gift by it's very nature should not come with strings, and trying to disguised a contract as a gift is lying and a trap. Knowing that men frequently lie isn't that same as accepting those strings, and accepting a gift that you know is trapped in order to turn the tables on the person doing you wrong isn't cruel.

Again, I will ask why a woman accepting a traped gift is cruel and more important than you than the fact that a man is lying and making a gift a trap?

>>18218858
No what I was saying is that guys will act as if accepting a gift is leading them on, though I was really referring to in the context of strangers.

Within a friendship these rules don't apply. I've seen friends get gifts from their male friends and vice versa and it wasn't a big deal which is why accepting it as a marker of romantic interest is dumb.

>>18218870

And I'm saying that IF they do know it doesn't fucking matter, because we're still being lied to. You're still not being clear, even if we see through your obscurity. We're still not obligated to give you anything in exchange for your gift. Fuck, these are not hard concepts.

>Women expect men to pick up on their "signals" yet you can't tell if a gift is romantic or not?

No one in this entire thread has said this, you shitidiot.

>>18218866
Nope. Bitter that guys who pay get aggressive and creepy.

>>18218871
The man expects the woman to know that the gift comes with expectations. It's not hard to tell when the gift is a romantic gift. Don't blame the men, blame yourselves for being socially retarded.

>>18218869
>>18218870
There are like three fucking conversations going on and we are all anonymous.

There is no way to track what you are arguing in reference to.

Goddam I am sick of doing these captchas.

>>18218887
>It's up to the man to know that I only want to be friends. Don't blame the woman; blame the man for being socially retarded.

Cuts both ways numbnuts.

Dude who was talking about the two ways of communication probably has it right. We're just taking in circles.

Peace.

>>18218887

>The man expects the woman to know that the gift comes with expectations.

Exactly, men place unreasonable and unfair expectations on women. He shouldn't expect, and if he does that's his problem.

> It's not hard to tell when the gift is a romantic gift.

Yes, it is. You're not even the one who's getting gifts, what the fuck do you know about it?

>Don't blame the men, blame yourselves for being socially retarded.

Men are the socially retarded ones who try to make something that is supposed to be free and with no strings attached into a trap.

>>18218871

>A gift by it's very nature should not come with strings

Now who's being naive
Sure, it shouldn't. But it does, and not only in romantic situations. In human relationships in general, a favor is usually expected to be repaid with a favor, and if you're aiming to be anyone socially at your job you should damn well learn to pay back the favors you're given.

>trying to disguised a contract as a gift is lying and a trap

Not saying it isn't if the other person isn't aware, but if you are aware of the situation and it's expected for you to be, it's neither lying nor a trap, it's more akin to a contract. Which makes it not a gift at all, of course, but like you said it never was in the first place, and you knew it, so why act surprised.

>Knowing that men frequently lie isn't that same as accepting those strings

You keep going to this defense that "men lie". You sound exactly like those bitter men that shit talk women all day long on this board, are you not aware of it ? Do you really think you have any cause to generalize like that, and if you do, why are you still dating in the first place, when we're all lying cunts ? Jesus.

>accepting a gift that you know is trapped in order to turn the tables on the person doing you wrong isn't cruel

it depends entirely on the situation
accepting a gift from a player that wants to impress you with his money isn't cruel, I would agree to that
accepting a gift from a guy that has a crush on you but is too weak / shy to come out and say it, is cruel. That person isn't necessarily being dishonest, he's just that wimpy. There are frequent examples of women taking advantages of these kind of males. Men and women are equally shitty in comparable proportions when it comes to these things.

>more important than you than the fact that a man is lying and making a gift a trap?

it's not more important to me. This entire thread, [...] (cont)

gift
ɡift/
noun
1.
a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.
"a Christmas gift"


Your parents don't expect something in return when they give you Christmas or birthday gifts, women don't expect something from men when they give them gifts, gifts by their very definition can not come with expectations of payment in the form of reciprocity, it's only shitty fucking stupid men who think that give a women something means they are entitled to have sex with her and she's an evil cunt if she says "wait a minute I never agreed to that"

>>18215800
Are you sure he Facebook stalks you? That could be the decider

>>18218895

(cont.)

you've been acting like us condemning the behavior of a woman taking advantage of the situation, means we don't condemn a man that created the situation in the first place, but that's just not the case. I think most of us will tell a man that buys these sort of gift in the first place that he's a dumbass.

But for some reason you seem convinced we wouldn't, like you're alone against the wordl, when the reality of the situation is that we think both persons are equally shitty in that situation.

So calm your fucking tits holy shit.

>>18218892
>Exactly, men place unreasonable and unfair expectations on women.

Right because women certainly don't send ambiguous signals and expect the man to pick up on it. Ooookay.

>Yes, it is. You're not even the one who's getting gifts, what the fuck do you know about it?
If I got a gift from a woman I'd assume it's a romantic gift. How many men have given you gifts just out of friendship? Do men seriously do this, or have you just interpreted all the male gift-giving as friendly (betting right now that most weren't)?

>Men are the socially retarded ones who try to make something that is supposed to be free and with no strings attached into a trap.
>trap
You not picking up on it doesn't make it a trap. They didn't send it expecting you to be tricked. They sent it expecting you to pick up on it.

>>18218907

>They didn't send it expecting you to be tricked. They sent it expecting you to pick up on it.

Holy shit this

>>18218895

>But it does, and not only in romantic situations

And when it does, the person trying to make is so is in the wrong.

>In human relationships in general, a favor is usually expected to be repaid with a favor

A gift isn't a favor. Furthermore, unless you clearly state "I will do this for you if you do something for me", you run the risk of your favor being interpreted as a gift and that's not the person who you did the favor for's fault.

> but if you are aware of the situation and it's expected for you to be, it's neither lying nor a trap, it's more akin to a contract

No, it isn't. You keep trying to make it one, but it's not. Knowing that someone's trying to trick you doesn't mean you agree to being tricked.

>You keep going to this defense that "men lie".

Because in this case it is a lie, period. Dressing a contact up as a gift is a lie.

>it depends entirely on the situation

No, it doesn't.

>That person isn't necessarily being dishonest

Yes they are, and they don't have a significantly good reason for being dishonest.

>There are frequent examples of women taking advantages of these kind of males.

By your logic men know this happens so it's their fault anyways.

>>18218902

Because all of your post focus on how terrible the woman take the gift is, while defending men lying and trying to trick us. Even in this post you don't acknowledge that pretending to be friends with women and presenting something as gift when it has strings attached is a shitty thing to do, you just say that someone who does it is a dumb ass.

>>18218915

>By your logic men know this happens so it's their fault anyways.

I agree they share a part of the blame, but both persons should be blamed in that situation.

Taking advantage of weak persons is morally deplorable AND illegal in contractual situations. That's something we as a society have decided on, you can decide to be the lone wolf not giving a fuck and taking advantage of everyone you damn well please, but that behavior is highly antisocial, and to be honest, generally seen as reprehensible.

>Yes they are, and they don't have a significantly good reason for being dishonest.

They're not being dishonest. They're sending signals you don't understand because you are too caught up in yourself to notice them. Which isn't necessarily a wrong thing, happens to anyone, but if you're made aware of it later you should be able to recognize the pattern the next time you see it. Treating weak people like "they should just be stronger" is both ignorant and bigoted.

>Knowing that someone's trying to trick you doesn't mean you agree to being tricked.

You keep saying they're trying to trick you, yet you're not seeing the contradiction with them expecting you to be aware of this "trick". A trick you expect people to see and understand is not a trick, like >>18218907 said

Honestly I just think it comes down to you being an horrible person making excuses for yourself

>>18215800
All men are ready to have a crush on any woman that is at least average in looks and with a passable body.
You just need to friendzone him hard as fuck before any closer physical contact happens.
>haha, ur like my brother
That sort of stuff. It will fuck with any male's mind.

>>18218920

>Even in this post you don't acknowledge that pretending to be friends with women and presenting something as gift when it has strings attached is a shitty thing to do, you just say that someone who does it is a dumb ass.

You're really that retarded huh

>By your logic men know this happens so it's their fault anyways.
Not responding to the whole thing because I'm not that guy, but I think every man here knows that sending gifts to a woman like this is fucking stupid. They're dumb for sending it, but that doesn't make you fine and dandy for accepting it. If you accept a gift knowing the person expects something in return and you don't return, I'm going to think less of you as a person. Just deny the gift. You don't need whatever it is they're offering you. It just makes you look like a materialistic ass who doesn't care about people's feelings.

We're probably going in loops now so I'm going to hop out.

>>18218907

>Right because women certainly don't send ambiguous signals and expect the man to pick up on it. Ooookay.

No, we don't pretend to be mens friends or give them "gifts" with string attached. When has that EVER happened to you?

>If I got a gift from a woman I'd assume it's a romantic gift

That;s a fucking dumb assumption. I can tell you I've given guys gifts that really were gifts, when I wasn't attracted to them, and I know that women have done the same to you.

>How many men have given you gifts just out of friendship?

I've had male friends in relationships give me gifts, so yeah, it is a thing that happens. God, you don't even know your own gender, and you're trying to lecture everyone one mine? You're a social reject.

>They didn't send it expecting you to be tricked. They sent it expecting you to pick up on it.

And that's an unreasonable expectation. In what fuckign world is it reasonable to expect for someone to pick up on your lies?

>>18218928

> I'm going to think less of you as a person

And I and every other women think less of people who add strings to gifts. I'm not going to be nice to people who lie to me. I'm not going to show them mercy when they don't show me any. If you try to trap me with a gift, I'm fucking taking it and you're getting shit in return and fuck you for trying that bullshit.

>>18218929

happened multiple times to me
Girls act like friends, jump on your bone and then expect a relationship out of it
You denying it happens because it's not a gift that costs money is irrelevant, they're still giving me something (sex) expecting me to give them something they want that I never agreed to (a relationship).

And they treat you like human garbage when you tell them you don't want any of that, calling you immature and afraid of commitment.

It goes both ways. You're stupid.

>>18218929

>girl never play the part of the dotting girlfriend when they want something out of you

LOL

>>18218929
>That;s a fucking dumb assumption. I can tell you I've given guys gifts that really were gifts, when I wasn't attracted to them, and I know that women have done the same to you.
Depends on the age of the girl and context. If it's not clear what the intentions of the gift are, if its seemingly out of nowhere, and the girl is about my age then it's not unreasonable to think that it may be romantic.

>And that's an unreasonable expectation.
So you are retarded.

>>18218933
And you admit to being a materialistic ass, as well.

>>18218922

>I agree they share a part of the blame, but both persons should be blamed in that situation.

Or maybe men just shouldn't dress up gifts as things they aren't and expect to get anything in return for gifts. Then they won't "be taken advantage of"

>Taking advantage of weak persons is morally deplorable AND illegal in contractual situations.

They aren't weak if they're capable of lies and deception.

>They're not being dishonest.

Yes they are.

>They're sending signals you don't understand because you are too caught up in yourself to notice them.

Nah, they're putting strings and expectations on things that shouldn't have strings or expectations.

>yet you're not seeing the contradiction with them expecting you to be aware of this "trick

Again, IT DOESN'T MATTER. It is not fair or reasonable to expect people to know that you are lying to them.

Honestly it comes down to men being fucking weaselly little piece of shit and being mad when your tricks don't work. You're vile.

>>18218940
>it's not unreasonable
Is not the same as being definite.

>>18218945
Could always ask why they sent the gift.

>>18218940

>it may

Congrats on admitting that romance is only one possibility and that there may be others. You're making progress!

>So you are retarded.

No, anyone who expects others to deal with their lies is the retarded one.

>materialistic

This word doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>18218934

Well then by your logic that was 1000% your fault and your a slutcunt for taking advantage of those poor women. You KNEW they want more than friendship.


>It goes both ways.

You're right, it does, and that;s why you're a fucking bitch whore I you deserve to be raped up your ass until you bleed out and die for being so cruel to those women.

>>18218952
Please remind me how not picking up on their expectations means they've lied to you.

>>18218950

And men could always just ask if the girl they like wants to date them.

Also, >implying men wouldn't just lie and say it's really just a gift when it isn't.

>>18218959
Also, >implying men wouldn't just lie and say it's really just a gift when it isn't.

I mean in that case they've made an explicit statement in which you can fall back on. If they lied right there then they're just stupid.

>>18218957

It's not women jobs to pick up on exceptions. Why can't YOU pick up on women's expections A gift by it's nature does not come with strings or exceptions, and putting them on a gift is a lie. I have said all of these things multiple times, why are these things so, so hard for you to accept? Is it because you're a ugly, loser piece of shit that has nothing to offer and you think the only way to get a gf is to try to trick them? Even though it NEVER works?

>>18218962

Why is it my duty to pull teeth and extract an explicit statement?

>>18218963
I never said I'm the one sending gifts, lol

>It's not women jobs to pick up on exceptions.
It is in this case. You want us to be clear 100% of the time? How about women do the same. Stop sending signals. Straight up tell us if you like us or not. Women do this way less then men so it aint on us. You're kind of getting a taste of your own medicine by getting something that isn't explicitly clear.

Still, I think the people who send gifts are idiots. It should be explicitly clear, and not making it clear is a sign of weakness or fear of rejection.

>>18218966
>simply walking up to them asking them what the gift was for
>pulling teeth
You're further proving your social retardery. Again even if he doesn't tell the truth, any explicit statement will work. If you think this is pulling teeth, lmao I don't know what to say.

>>18218977

>It is in this case.

No it isn't.

>You want us to be clear 100% of the time? How about women do the same.

How about you do it first, since you're the one's lying first.

>You're kind of getting a taste of your own medicine by getting something that isn't explicitly clear.

Lol no we don't, but hey thanks for admitting you actually demonstratively are lying in order to get back at some imaginary slight.

>You're further proving your social retardery.

Social retardery is giving someone something and expecting them to know you want something back without saying so. If you think I should have to go around being the Inquisition to find out which men are lying to men and which aren't you're fucking wrong. Men shouldn't lie or gift nongift-gifts in the first places. It is not my job to sniff out mens intentions, fuck you for trying to make my job.

>>18219027
>but hey thanks for admitting you actually demonstratively are lying in order to get back at some imaginary slight.
Right so a woman sending signals is lying because smiling and touching others playfully can also be interpreted as friendly. That's your definition of a lie. It's not the correct definition but okay.

>It is not my job to sniff out mens intentions
That's literally what men have to do all the time, women are the masters of not making things clear when it comes to romantic interest.

Keeping trying make it seem like we're lying somehow. Someone must have really hurt you in the past.

>>18218955

you don't seem like you're fit to have this conversation to be perfectly honest, you should look for clinical help for that case of raving lunacy

>>18215800
You suspect he has feelings for you of which you have supporting proof, and you want to use him for his shelter.
I'm assuming that you don't like him the way that he likes you.
In which case, you'd be using him, leading him on, and then leaving.
Which is a terrible thing to do.
Socially and technically you could do that, morally you'd be a bitch for doing this on purpose.
What you're probably looking for is that silver lining, that technically that allows you to use him as you see fit and not feel bad about it in any way.
The better option is to crush his hopes here, so he can move on to someone better.
Unless you like him too, don't spit in his face by sleeping in his bed.

Stop responding to bait, /adv/

>>18218556

Men don't make "friends" with women cause women make awful friends. We only act friendly towards you cause either we wanna get our Willie's wet or you have a friend we wanna bone. We go to guys because guys actually value the meaning of friendship.

>>18215800
I wouldn't say it's "cruel" but it's an unnecessarily blurring of the lines. Why not just find somewhere else to crash?

>>18215800

Yes you vile harlet, it is cruel.

>>18219270
I've got as many female friends as I have male friends. You're an idiot.

>>18219051
>women are the masters of not making things clear when it comes to romantic interest

Dude, coming from another guy, maybe you just suck at reading signals. Because I've literally never had an issue knowing whether or not a woman was interested in me since I was in middle school.