Change religion for your S.O.?

>>18201874
It's always acceptable to ask. It's also acceptable to refuse.

This is going to be tough. Realisticly you can't convert, it's a whole lot of work even if you believed it, which you don't.

Traditionally, women must convert to the mans religion and in Islam women are not allowed to date outside the religion. By design so there is never a loss of numbers.

You really have to consider if that dogmatic approach - completely changing your life - so there can be one more Muslim on earth, is something you support.

My wife is an athiest and I'm a Muslim. I personally didn't give a shit but I just asked her to convert in name so my family would shut up.

Nothing has changed. She doesn't wear a towel, doesn't pray, doesn't do anything religious, just "converted" and thats it.

If it's a religion someone believes in and practices seriously then you shouldn't be dating them if you don't agree about its existence. The will likely expect you to convert, and failing that any children they have they will expect to raise in their religion. It is not common as >>18202158 says to ask someone just for the sake of their parents, except when the parents are very serious and the actual partner is very moderate. Even then a lot of the time that means changing what you practice for the parent's sake.

If this isn't something you're willing to do don't date people who are very devout.

>>18201874
>Unironically considering converting to mudshit religion
KYS, faggot

>>18201874
Religions are a fucking cancer on society, with Islam being a particularly cruel one. Just remember if you join her religion, the punishment for apostasy is death.

>>18201874
>I started seeing this Muslim girl and she is adamant that I have to become Muslim too if we are to have any real future.
I had some of that back in college, but at the end of the day it's not worth adopting a stone-age cult for a girl. There will always be other women.

>>18202276

I'm honestly curious, but what experience do you have in the realm of contributing to society? What actual argument do you have that religion has had a net negative effect? I'm just wondering if you have any qualification to be claiming that something important to literally the majority of the world is a "cancer on society."

With respect to your question, OP, I think it's reasonable for her to ask you to consider her viewpoints, just as I think it's reasonable for you to ask her to consider your reservations. As a Christian with an atheist girlfriend (likely atheist wife in the near future), these are the rules of engagement that I follow when it comes to discussing religion with my partner. Personally, being able to discuss religion openly in these terms with her has strengthened our relationship as well as our understanding of our respective viewpoints.

You are also in a particular pickle, however, because there is a consensus among Muslim religious authorities that a Muslim woman should not marry a non-Muslim man. This standard is much harder than the civil one possible between a Christian and a non-Christian or (to a lesser extent) a Jew and a non-Jew.

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>>18202170
This. You're going to be unhappy being a liar, praying 5 times a day to a God you KNOW doesn't exist, going to temple/whatever once a week, and then having to raise your kids in that tradition and watch them grow up as backwards ignorant fucks.

Don't do it.

>>18201874
Be genuine.

If you want to change change. If you don't want to change, then don't. Don't change because someone wants you to. Explain to her that you would never ask her to change and that you don't expect her to. Request that she accept you the way you are. If she won't then you will need to leave.

>>18202419
>What actual argument do you have that religion has had a net negative effect?
the condemnation and execution of philosophers and early scientists for "heresy".
Early chemists and doctors being branded as witches.

brainwashing entire populaces with the doctrine "don't question, pray"

and honestly, most of these religions were formed back when humans didn't really understand the world they live in, and were ready to accept any answer that was "easy to understand"

Why do we have storms?
>because God is angry

Why does the sun set and the moon rise?
>because 2 angry dogs constantly pull it

How are we not falling?
>because 4 elephants, who stand on a turtle, who is also standing on a coiled snake, is holding up the world

>>18201874
>and I think the clock is slowly counting down to the end of our relationship.
that's her fault not yours
you were fine with her being a muslim
she is not fine with you NOT being a muslim

>>18202856

>the condemnation and execution of philosophers and early scientists for "heresy".

Which philosophers? Which scientists? In the course of history, how many scientists have been killed as a result of religious beliefs as compared to other causes, e.g. differences in political beliefs?

>early chemists and doctors being branded as witches.

When, where, and which chemists and doctors? What percentage of chemists and doctors capable of contributing meaningful things to society were killed as a direct result of religion? How many of these instances had no other possible source of agitation save for religion?

Similarly, how can you distinguish between religion being used as a tool to remove causes of fear and the essence of religion being the cause of fear?

>brainwashing entire populaces with the doctrine "don't question, pray"

Again, I ask, when and where?

These arguments, especially the ones relating to doctors and philosophers, absolutely must answer the objection that the religion of which you speak is also directly responsible for supporting countless other discoveries in math and science. On a broader scale, your argument is deficient in that none of these objections address your original claim that religion, broadly defined, is a "cancer to society.

This is why I never would date greeks or muslims I met.
they wanted other muslims or greeks

i guess u could change.

>>18201874
>He doesn't believe in anything
>To her religion is more important than love
How do two people that different even get together?

Do you even fathom how important it must be to her to become a dealbreaker in the relationship? Simply faking it won't do, if you want something long term.

>>18201874
umm no OP. you beat thaty fucking muslim whore to death. then make sure to anniliate her family. get as many of them as u can at a mosque too. fuck those goat fucking sand niggers

>>18201874
No. You can't force yourself to believe in her religion and the only other option is lying about it. If she can't deal with that, you've got to let her go.

>>18201874
You realize that with Islam conversion would include getting circumcised, right?

>>18201874
And if it doesn't go further after conversion even?
If you split up?

The punishment for Apostasy in Islam is death.

>>18203583
>not being preemptively circumcised just in case of conversion
You're unprepared for the future, anon.

>>18203161
>Which philosophers? Which scientists?
http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gbh_philosophers.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

>When, where, and which chemists and doctors?
do you not even know what early chemists were called?
they were called alchemists
https://www.thoughtco.com/alchemy-in-the-middle-ages-1788253

>must answer the objection that the religion of which you speak is also directly responsible for supporting countless other discoveries in math and science.
Do you honestly believe the church would not take advantage of the opportunity to claim credit for beneficial discoveries? Do you honestly believe that the church would just stand by and allow someone to openly question the authority of their beliefs? Do you honestly think they would just let their source of income (tithe) to just go elsewhere?

I don't know whether your naive or just ignorant to believe a religion to be above corruption
And what makes a religion is it's followers
So what it's followers do IS the religion, regardless of the actual religions tenets.

so to clarify religion itself is not the problem
It's the believers

Even I know the bible says "not to suffer a witch"
the believers on the other hand interpret it as:
"do not allow your self to be suffered by a witch"
And when the believers start making their own interpretations and not questioning them...

Well, if you've been paying attention to the world around you, then you should already know.

I'm agnostic, though, and I view all religions as just different philosophies
people who try to interpret their religion literally are just fucking idiots who have given up on thinking for themselves
Those who interpret them spiritually though are much more level-headed and pleasant.

Agnosticicism is not Atheism
Atheism is the belief of no god
Theism is the belief of the existance of god
Agnostcism is more of an admission that we have no method to prove either to be definitively true, as of yet.

>>18202158
My friend did a similar thing. She's nominally a Muslim and asked BF to convert so her family will shut up, since it's pretty fast and easy it was never an issue for him.

Personally, as an agnostic leaning towards atheism, I could never be happy with myself if I pretended like that- but I'd never date a religious person anyway (particularly a Muslim, as I'm a girl and muslim men tend to be sexist and authoritarian).

But it's your life. It depends on how important your lack of faith is, and how much you love her. But you kind of have to question whether you've got different values and are actually all that compatible in the first place.

How did you even get together? Religious and non religious people tend to be quite different.

I wouldn't do it. I couldn't live a lie like that.

>>18202856
>Early chemists and doctors being branded as witches.
Read the Kybalion, those were followers of hermeticism, the problem with it is the belief in reincarnation, essentially giving you a pass to be a bad person now and redeem yourself in the next life, it is what spawned astrology, which I am sure you believe 100% in it.

>brainwashing entire populaces with the doctrine "don't question, pray"
You are not entitled to anything. Don't like it? Leave the empire while you are not considered a subversive parasite, lose the protection of the empire in the process.

>>18203850
>Galileo
It does not matter where the center of the Universe is, but let's pretend it does and claim the Sun is the center of the Universe instead and drive everyone mad for contradicting Aristotle. I wonder who also tried something similar... oh yeah! Socrates!

>I don't know whether your naive or just ignorant to believe a religion to be above corruption
MANKIND* is not above corruption.

>And when the believers start making their own interpretations and not questioning them...
You are not thinking for yourself, you are using a Fedora thesaurus.

>>18204266
are you trying to go somewhere with this?
you are not exactly denying his points

In fact I'm pretty sure you've just proved all of his points that you seem to believe you're refuting.

It is impossible to change ones religion. Once you are infected you are a gonner. It is no different from AIDS. Only date your own kind to begin with.

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>>18204266
>Read the Kybalion, those were followers of hermeticism,
>google'd hermiticism
>"Hermeticism, also called Hermetism, is a religious, philosophical, and esoteric tradition based primarily upon writings attributed to Hermes Trismegistus"
Oh would you look at that, it's a fucking RELIGION.

oh but...

>>I don't know whether your naive or just ignorant to believe a religion to be above corruption
>MANKIND* is not above corruption.
apparently, you believe all religion is perfect and infallible, including hermiticism, which for some reason you're angry about.

>It does not matter where the center of the Universe is
It mattered enough to the church, so much so they almost had Galileo executed for even mentioning it, they would have done the same to Socrates if the church had as much power then as they did in the 1600s

>>And when the believers start making their own interpretations and not questioning them...
>You are not thinking for yourself
read 2 lines down in my post

>You are not entitled to anything. Don't like it? Leave the empire while you are not considered a subversive parasite, lose the protection of the empire in the process.
what does this even have to do with religion?

Actually what are you even trying to say

Are you FOR religion?
Are you AGAINST religion?
Are you FOR philosophy?
Are you AGAINST philosophy?
Do you even know the definition of the word philosophy?
Do you even know the definition of the word agnostic?
And whats with the talk of empires?
Is it even relevant to the discussion?
If it is then you better state why.

It seems like you had some knee-jerk reaction to some random word I said, which rustled your jimmies so much you forget to include the point you were trying to make.

>>18204448
Not him and agree with most of what you said but the Galileo thing is a bit more complicated. He acted like an annoying cunt, was WRONG at that and since it was the 16th century, people dealt a bit more extreme with trolls.

>>18201874
Hi OP are you still here?

>>18201874
Muslim women can't marry non-muslim men.

>>18204497
Can muslim men marry non muslim women?

>>18204459
>but the Galileo thing is a bit more complicated
I'm sure it was, and admittedly, I don't know much of Gallieo's life, and focused more on his discoveries and contributions.

But the point I wanted to illustrate was that the church used religion as a pretext to punish him for disagreeing with a commonly held religious belief.

>He acted like an annoying cunt, was WRONG at that
wait, was he bad at being a cunt?

>reading his wikipedia page
I see he kinda pissed off the Pope, which is a really bad move.

>>18204502
of course.

>>18204541
So why the discrepancy?

>>18204543
because

>>18204524
>was he bad at being a cunt?
The whole "sun as center of the universe thing" was incorrect after all. There was more things he was wrong about and many of the things we was right about weren't discovered by him.

>I see he kinda pissed off the Pope, which is a really bad move.
Not just that, the Pope tried to play it cool and gave him chances to chill out but Galileo really had to push it. Someone in Russia now calling Putin a faggot wouldn't be much better off.

Though yeah it doesn't change much about the picture in the end, just overall Galileo is one of the weakest examples of them abusing their power.

>>18204497
Well, duh. Those fuckers are so ugly no-one else would agree to marry them.

>>18204490

Yeah, I'm here.

I'll add another detail: she has been diagnosed as bipolar, and has spent time in a few different mental hospitals. Sometimes it has been hard to determine what part of her is the illness, what part is due to how she's been raised, and what part is separate from both of those.

Here's an example. One time we were having a conversation about clothes. She told me she believes that any girl who would wear a bikini at beach is a "bitch". I asked her why, and she said that by putting their bodies on display, they are automatically making women who don't have such bodies feel bad. I told her that one of my good friends (almost like a sister to me, really) had been known to go to the beach in a bikini sometimes, and asked if *she* was a "bitch". The response was yes. This view, whether due to her religion or not, struck me as being seriously unbalanced.

One time she found a jar of bacon-maple-onion jam from Stonewall Kitchen in my fridge and freaked the hell out about it. I told her, truthfully, that it was from before I even knew her, but she was clearly unhappy that I hadn't already gotten rid of it. And because we live in different cities (she in Baltimore, I in Hartford), I'm still lying to her; I regularly eat pork products because I love Italian and Polish food and there's a ton of that up here. I just don't tell her, and I bury it deep within my freezer whenever she's here.

:(

>>18204251
>>18203267

OP here again. Missed these before.

We met in a strange way. She had the apartment next to mine, because we both worked at the hospital across the street - she was a doctor doing her residency, I was a sysadmin. One night we were both coming home from somewhere, rode the elevator up together, discovered that we lived next to each other, and naturally began chatting. At the time she was married and her husband had come over from Egypt to visit her for a week. I tried to be neighborly. Baked some cookies for them, let them borrow some salt when they needed it (how old-fashioned is that?).

Then one day, while in what she would later recognize as a period of bipolar mania, she quit her residency in the middle of its third year, with plans to move overseas with her husband, who was moving to Saudi Arabia soon for work. We began a physical affair which turned into a purely emotional affair once she left. We talked a LOT - but mostly about work and other topics, never about religion - and it progressed from conversation to sex.

She was, predictably, very unhappy in Saudi once she got there, because life for women in Saudi is of course nothing like it is here, or even in most other Arab countries. She ended up sneaking out of their apartment and flying home on EgyptAir (she didn't need a permission slip because their marriage was done in Egypt, not Saudi).

She came back to the States and lived with her parents in New Jersey for a while. Her bipolar disorder was exacerbated by everything that was going on and she spent some time in a hospital. Then she moved down to Baltimore to stay with a girlfriend of hers and checked into another hospital.

>>18205017
Fuck yeah bro. Convert, without faith, for a insane girl with even more insane convictions, that are already making you have to lie to live your normal life. Sounds great!

Are you mental?

If you're stupid enough to even consider this, you should instead kill yourself.

>>18202158
You should also kill yourself.

>>18203459
You're cool.

>>18205047
So you started fucking while she was having an episode?

>>18204543
Women need religion to be worth something. Guys are horny murderers no matter what they believe

>>18205082

Yeah. I didn't realize it until later, though. This was my second 'relationship' in my whole entire life (I'm 36), my first vaginal intercourse ever, and also my first time directly knowing someone with mental illness.

I did feel a little bad about having sex with her while her husband was overseas but that fact just fell away in the face of other things.

>>18201874
what u gotta do is get all those goat fucking sand niggers from her family all in one place. then kill them all with a couple homemade pipe bombs. you are now a hero in the west. no fucking jury in trumps america will convict you.

>>18205211
This is actually a good idea. No joke.

>>18202856
>still believing in the conflict thesis in 2017

>>18205017
Why the hell are you staying with her? Dump the bitch now?

>>18205479
>not reading my later posts where I basically deconstructed the conflict thesis by separating a religion's tenets from it's believers interpretations and pointed out religious beliefs being used as a pretext to inflict violence on those who disagree with the popular consensus, for petty reasons

>>18201874
Muslims believe humans are made out of mud.

>>18205781
Christians believe humans are made out of dirt

No, it will not work. Muslims are very religious and her family too. Don't do it atheist, end it. Religions don't mix and not having one especially.

>>18205182
Nah, do not convert. This woman has an untreated mental illness that could make her change her mind and become devout. There is no predicting her behavior.

Also, I don't really know the success rate if relationship that stem from affairs, but probably not very good.

This is the question I have for people who pursue someone for a relationship that is committing an affair: How sure are you they would not do the same to you down the road?

Also, the fact you state your age and how this is your first foray into relationships is not good, and will cause you to make decisions for a likely temporary relationship that will really hurt you emotionally and possibly financially down the line.

>>18205017
Why the fuck do non-devout Muslims freak over bacon and pigs and are terrified of dogs?

This one girl I work with wears a lot of makeup, curses, and doesn't wear a habib or anything. I think she even has one small tattoo that says "family" or some shit. But she makes a face at bacon or sausage (even though she never has tried it once. Wouldn't even try when I brought elk sausage to work, because wild animals freak them out too?)

Once she found out that at university and that I actually worked with pigs, raised pigs, even fucking cloned a mangalista pig, she was disgusted and asked how I could work with such disgusting creatures. She wouldn't listen when I told her they are actually quite clean and a product of the environment because they cannot sweat, and are very smart, nor that the research I was helping keep said swine for was diabetes and obesity and Altzeimers, and that diabetics would not have insulin before 1994 without the pig. She wasn't having it and actually didn't talk to me much the rest of the day.

Same in college. Neighbor was a non devout Muslim man who got drunk all the time. But Allah-forbid his roommates cooked bacon while he was in the house. He got violent about it, actually taking the iron skillet, slinging grease everywhere even on himself, and chucked it into the kitchen wall and caused a big hole.

Could someone explain to me these strange reactions to pork, but every other haram is just fine?

>>18205897
>Why the fuck do non-devout Muslims freak over bacon and pigs and are terrified of dogs?
religious indoctrination, why else?
well actually it's psychological conditioning/brainwashing

and that's pretty much what religion is nowadays

>>18206372
But then why do they do other things/sins that could be seen as worse than consuming bacon?

If both alcohol and pork is against your religion, yet you consume alcohol, it is baffling to me. One alters your mind and can cause sickness and violence if overconsumed in one session.

One is delicious and might eventually give you heart disease if you consume 5+ thick slices of bacon two times a day.

The historical reason to avoid pork was contaminated meat from trichonosis or other forms. Thus the practice made its way into religion. The modern poultry industry is probably the most disgusting and filthy livestock production there is. Most food poisoning epidemics in first world countries are now caused by vegetables.

>>18206403
>implying religion needs to follow logic or adapt to modern times