Why should I forgive her?

My question is: should I just pretend she doesn't exist, never bring her up again to anyone, outside of those people who already know?

>>18178650

i just wouldnt tell people. if they somehow find out about the daughter id just say 'were not close'. and if they pressed id say 'i dont like to talk about it' becuase its true, you dont like talking about it. you may like saying it out loud, but you dont like how people respond, which means you dont like talking about it.

i could forgive my daughter for that under the right circumstances, but i dont know what yours were. i dont really care one way or another.

you dont need to talk to people about it. i know you believe in being 'honest' but theres nothing dishonest about not talking about her or asking not to be asked if she ever comes up.

there's a difference between privacy and dishonesty. you dont need to tell everyone how many seperate logs of shit you had this morning, or exactly what you looked for on pornhub, or how many times you masturbated to the thought of your wife with another man.

thats private. whatever you want to be private can be private. you dont need to explain. if people press you just say 'like i said, i dont want to talk about it'.

anyone who presses isn't trying to get you to be honest, they just want gossip.

>>18178650
>>18178651
Uh... well, though I'm not you, nor am I in your situation...
Your daughter was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Would she have kept it secret if it had been you cheating?
Nevermind. Sorry, oldfag. I have no advice for you. I have a daughter, but she's far too young for me to even imagine myself and my daughter in your place.
Sorry it happened, broham.

>>18178651
>My question is: should I just pretend she doesn't exist, never bring her up again to anyone, outside of those people who already know?
That's what I'd do, honestly. You've made your decision and it really isn't anybody else's. I would volunteer that information, and I don't think I'd even mention her if directly asked about my children. If you feel the need to talk about her, just say that you and her no longer are on speaking terms, and that you don't feel like discussing it. You're not obligated to air your laundry like that to people just because they ask

>>18178654

>i just wouldnt tell people. if they somehow find out about the daughter id just say 'were not close'. and if they pressed id say 'i dont like to talk about it' becuase its true, you dont like talking about it. you may like saying it out loud, but you dont like how people respond, which means you dont like talking about it.

The problem is when I start getting close with people, and you can't really just brush off those questions so easily.

>i could forgive my daughter for that under the right circumstances, but i dont know what yours were

She knew about her mother cheating on me for the larger portion of her affair. On one occasion, she even covered for her, though she later said she was sorry about that and didn't do it again, but you have to understand that I don't believe a word she says anymore.

And I don't really bring up the family history to everyone I talk with. It's not something that happens the first or the second time we talk. But eventually, talk of family does come up, and if they met my other kids, who might have mentioned their sister, it's kind of hard to just push the issue aside.

>anyone who presses isn't trying to get you to be honest, they just want gossip.

Oh I had a few of those and I just tend to push those people away, don't engage with them at all.

>>18178660

>Your daughter was stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I was told that by several people, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. She wasn't stuck in the middle, she chose her mother over me. She chose dishonesty and deceit over loyalty. I mean, even her boyfriend at the time broke up with her once he found out what was going on. Doesn't that tell them enough about how what she did was wrong?

>>18178666

What about when I'm trying to build a relationship with someone new?

Yeah, keep that stuff private. We aren't close is sufficient. Also it might be the way you tell it, you sound pretty pissed off and while I assume you are socially adapt to avoid venting rage as you've displayed here, you might come across as kind of monstrous when talking in person.

In fantasy land where everything is fluffy and wonderful parents are responsible people who understand that children make mistakes as they grow and learn in life and they often sacrifice their own drives and desires in order to allow their children to grow and develop into healthy individuals without primary wounds and deep trauma due to the weaknesses and failings of their parents.

You have basically lumped your daughter with some of the anger you feel towards your wife, maybe transferred some because you can rationalise the weakness of your wife and relate, but your daughter has fallen from a higher place via a method you can't understand or relate to. In the eyes of others your wife is a fair target as the adult with autonomy and free choice over her actions, but your daughter is the potentially unwilling and manipulated stooge in your wife's wrong doing and by virtue of being your child she is supposed to get a few mistakes in order for you to raise a better adult.

In reality though you can do whatever the fuck you want to do. It feels good to make choices and stand by them and have standards, just doesn't feel good to have to constantly rationalise them and defend them and doubt yourself. So don't. Don't bring it up, people love a bit of drama.

That said, you will probably regret this in the end. You won't stay angry forever and you have lost a person who would have potentially been in your life until the very end. Parents are apparently supposed to take bullets for kids because of the bonding and the hormones and such. I remember being called monstrous because I'd save my girlfriend over my child in a life or death scenario.

>>18178674

>its hard to just brush it off.

its not actually, you just like to rant about it and that part of you wins out unfortunately.

put it this way, what is harder, brushing it off by being an adult and standing by your 'i dont want to talk about it', or having to deal with people judging you when they hear your story.

which is harder? whichever your answer, just follow the other one. there is no winning here. its life, you're 50, you know this, there's no magical solution, just a lesser of two evils.

so pick that lesser of two evils. my advice is to just be an adult and say 'i dont wnat to talk about it'. if you actually stand by that, you'll find its a lot easier than you thought

>>18178675
Also I can imagine so much is difficult because while your wife was your wife, she never was part of you, she was always another person. Your daughter has your DNA and genetically is related to you, she is part of you and as such you can understand your wife deceiving you, because while you were close she wasn't actually related to you, your daughter though?

That said, can you see positive reasons why she did what she did? Does she have a desire to spare you both from hurt or harm? To protect the family? To maintain an environment that she and her siblings loved and flourished within? It must have been a great burden for her to hold on to, your other kids by not knowing had a great luxury and a free ride in comparison to what she faced. I mean, sometimes you lie once and then you are committed and it eats away at you, but you can't go back now because you are scared because you lied even though you regret it so logically continuing to lie is the safest path to follow if damnation is the result if you don't.

Were you close? Did she look up to you? Is that why it was such a painful wound? Is it easier to cut her out rather than process strong thoughts like wanting to strangle your own child?

It must have been incredibly traumatic for you all. Can I ask what the scenario was? What ages were we talking for the people involved? How long had you been together as was it your first marriage? How long had the affair gone on? What were the circumstances?

>>18178650
>Why should I forgive her?
>whenever I've formed new friendship or tried starting new relationships, and this subject matter comes up, people look at me like I'm a monster for disowning my daughter

maybe you should forgive her because not forgiving her is having an adverse effect on all of your other relationships, but I'm just a shitposter on a Basque tile mosaic BBS so what would I know

>>18178651
There is no need to hide it from anyone. I get your point, and would do the same. What do you usually give as a reason for cutting contact with her?

>get betrayed by the woman you married
>divorce and never speak to her again
Is considered normal

>get stabbed in the back royally by your own flesh and blood
>do not speak with her again
"Hurrr watcha daughter did wrong?"

>>18178674
>What about when I'm trying to build a relationship with someone new?
I don't feel like that necessarily means you need to disclose that in that case either. Just like it's unnecessary to talk about notches on the bedpost. Dating someone doesn't mean they're entitled to every detail of your past.

>>18178650
I do feel a little bad for your daughter, but mostly because i dont know the details of the situation. it's just an incredibly awkward situation for your daughter to know her mom is having an affair, and that if she told her mom would probably disown her, but if she doesnt you will and she perhaps just wanted the family to stay together but too immature/naive to realize that the affair killed any chance of that from the start.

You sound like a fair man, so im sure the details are more sinister than the scenario I gave, however I'm sure this is how people think when you first tell them. I would recommend only telling the part about your daughter to people you are especially close with.

>>18178675

I held my ex-wife and my daughter in equal regard. I loved and cherished them as humanely as possibly. What they did obliterated any affection I ever had for them. I don't rationalize my ex's affair. I don't see it as weakness. It's a choice she made and like any choice it had consequences. Same goes for my daughter.

>That said, you will probably regret this in the end.

Why would I? It's been 4 years and I've never thought twice on cutting my daughter off. If she wasn't pestering me so often through others, I wouldn't even think about her anymore.

>>18178679

I come off as ranting here because I can let loose. In real life, I'm far more restrained and reserved.

>>18178686

I don't really care for whatever self-justification she used to get a positive spin on it. The hurt I would have suffered from finding out my ex cheated on me would have been far less than that of finding out my daughter knew, covered for her and kept it secret from me.

I'm pretty close with all my kids. We were close too.

My daughter was 25 at the time, her mother's affair had been going on for three months. We got married at 21. The man she had the affair with was just someone from her circle of friends. I don't really care much what happened beyond that, it wouldn't have helped me move on and heal from the betrayal, so I didn't ask for details.

>>18178696

That would mean she'd be back in my life. I'd rather not have that.

>>18178709

To people who'd gotten close with me enough to know the truth, I give them full disclosure: ex cheated, my daughter knew about it, covered for her and kept her mouth shut.

>>18178710

Yes, obviously I don't bring this up in the beginning, but I had one relationship implode on me because the woman in question couldn't fathom how I could just disown my flesh and blood.

>>18178713

She was 25. Not 15. The hole immature/naive angle doesn't fly.

Eh. I'm dating one of three daughters who have a train wreak mother. They all hate her guts and the drama she brings to the family, yet they all stick up for her and cover for her and generally try to protect her. Up to a point it is about trying to keep her shit off of themselves. I try to understand it as some kind of imprinting when very young, she made it clear they were all women in it together, that they had secrets, that their bond was special and different to other bonds, that they had to help her keep the peace and keep them all safe and they'd be responsible for bringing harm to the family if they didn't, they all had to work together to stop 'the man' getting angry or aggressive even if he actually wasn't or anger was actually justified based on her actions.

It is kind of fucked up. But I can see it. They go along with it blindly up to a point when they suddenly snap out of it and get mad at her for being such a controlling bitch unable to make good choices and as such trying to manipulate others for her own needs yet again.

The woman really is kind of evil. I have to be alert to similar behaviour in my girlfriend. She doesn't even consider certain lying dishonest, she thinks they are cute fibs designed to help others and her default reaction when caught out is to act like a toddler, it is kind of creepy like this infantilised defensive strategy.

I mean, I'm a big dumb monkey, but I'm not so dumb that I won't throw you out even if you are trying to act like a toddler to deflect frustration or criticism.

>>18178735
Situations like these will always cause a moral devide among people. So if there is some sort of a discussion about it cut it off quick and keep it at "different people have different moral standards, within my view of morality I did something justifyably. What I did probably doesnt fit your moral standards, so lets just leave it at that."

Leave no room for discussion, or reason to bring it up again.

Godspeed OP, best of luck

>>18178735
>The hole immature/naive angle doesn't fly.
Oh yes it fucking does, are you serious? People your age have disowned their brothers for 25 years over a fight they dont even remember. People 30 years older than you are sometimes immature as fuck.

Age =/= maturity, ESPECIALLY in a subject matter like choosing between mom and dad when all you want is for the family to instead just not fall apart.

>>18178650
Yes, you should forgive her right in the pussy man.

>>18178735
>She was 25. Not 15. The hole immature/naive angle doesn't fly.

This settled it for me, I'd do the exact same thing. If your daughter was young, I would have forgiven her, but not at that fucking age.

Don't bring her up unless it's brought up. Be an honest man and defend your actions.

>>18178650
Put yourself in her position 5 years ago. She finds out her mother is cheating. At that point ANYTHING she does will be wrong. If she tells you, she's being disloyal to her mother. If she keeps quiet, she's being disloyal to you.

She had absolutely no way out, and the only thing you can complain about is that at that moment, forced to make a choice, she chose the one she did.

She had her reasons. Have you ever asked her what they were? Maybe she loved her mother more than you. Maybe, as a woman, she felt she understood her better. Maybe she mistakenly thought not saying anything was not taking sides

You owe her the opportunity to explain, You owe her the effort to put yourself in her place back then and decide, rationally, just how evil her choice was. And if you still can't forgive her, so be it. But make that decision based on more than your smoldering rage.

>>18178771
>If she tells you, she's being disloyal to her mother. If she keeps quiet, she's being disloyal to you.

Except the mother was cheating, betraying the father. Why would anyone defend her?

Also, read thread.
>even her boyfriend at the time broke up with her once he found out what was going on. Doesn't that tell them enough about how what she did was wrong?

Lying categorised by omission of fact isn't really the same as taking sides and defending somebody. Did she actually lie to you or did she just not tell you she knew until asked? How did you find out that she even knew?

>>18178812

She lied to me. On one occasion that I know of, she covered for her mother, said she was with her, when her mother was out with the other man. I found out when I went through my ex-wife's phone and online messages.

>>18178650
>>18178674
You are completely failing to put yourself in your daughter's shoes.

Sorry, but that's a massively difficult situation for anyone of any age to deal with. I happen to agree with you that telling the wronged parent about the affair is the "right" choice, but you are showing absolutely no understanding of how hard it is to go through with something like that, knowing that it will completely destroy your family and probably ruin one of the most important relationships in your life, permanently.

It's unlikely that from her perspective it felt like "taking sides" at all. It probably felt like ... shutting down. "I can't deal with this. I can't deal with this. My mother will never talk to me again if I tell him. I can't lose my parents. I can't be responsible for my parents getting a divorce. Oh my god."

I want to emphasize that YES, I also believe she chose wrongly, but many, many people would have, in her position.

And hold on -- I'm not telling you to reconcile with your daughter. I mean, maybe someday, but I don't know that I'd be ready in your position either; not being able to look at her without seeing red is understandable and perfectly human.

But the complete lack of empathy (not sympathy) you're displaying here is really striking. I strongly suspect it is coming through when you talk about this, even if you think you're being perfectly restrained. It's not that you're unable to understand why she did what she did, it's that you're not even INTERESTED in understanding. Despite the fact that her decision, too, was understandable and human, although misguided.

Put more simply, it's not that your decision was wrong, it's that the thought process behind it is really cold and ugly and frankly would be immature in somebody 20 years younger than you. People can tell. It's coming through on here and I guarantee people can tell out there in the real world too.

>>18178650
OP,

your daughter isn't you. She isn't and doesn't have to be loyal or whatever standard you hold her to.

I'm 21, if my mother was seeing someone that wasn't my dad then it would be her business.

Why would i want to make my dad cry?

Women don't have a sense of honor like men do, women are more suited to emotional support.

You probably really fucking hurt her feelings too.

You gave birth to her, you're responsible to give her the best life possible it's YOUR job to give them the best life they can have

it's not her fucking job to please you. Your life ended when you had kids.

Get with the fucking program and stop hurting your kids. You're going to die one day and you will regret it so much.

The last thing my dad said was 'you're a dickhead' He died a few days later on my birthday.

>>18178840
This

It's not what you say, it's how you fucking say it.

It's your emotion, tone of voice and so on.

You are probably coming off like a prick op.

Get your emotions in check, it was 4 years ago.

>>18178853
>The last thing my dad said was 'you're a dickhead' He died a few days later on my birthday.
Based on your post I doubt he had any regrets about that.

>>18178858
No dude, while a lot of what he says is quite troubling, like it or not good father/good man basically means putting your children first. Women can let you and your family down, but men understand sacrifice.

Of course we don't want to be completely fucked in the ass by society while doing so, so we draw lines and have standards and we stick to our positions when they have been crossed, but we don't become shitty men and shitty fathers.

We've all known men who believe that because they created something, it owes them or they own it or they milk sympathy or negative emotions from the burden that it inflicted upon them. They did it for the wrong reasons, they look to create negativity and unhappiness because they can't deal with it. They don't want to let go of something, they can't process it. I've known lots of poor men with this attitude.

I hate my children because they are a burden, yet my children owe me because I give them things, yet these things are an unwanted obligation which I can't shut up about rather than things I gift freely without obligation or expectation. These are men as bad as women.

Women in general come under the category of children. Sorry ladies, you've got a part to play and a story to tell and a life to lead and I wish you every success with your goals, but without implying any negativity or inherent better/worse aspects between the sexes the world of men being men is denied to you just as the world of women being women is denied to men.

I'll never know childbirth. You'll never rationalise youth, potential, vitality, fear of ageing, fear of failure, weakness and death all in some complex equation involving your ego and purpose for existing being co-opted, reduced and gradually siphoned in a controlled way as a sacrifice made gladly for the next generation.

>>18178853

>Women don't have a sense of honor like men do, women are more suited to emotional support.

What the fuck does this have to do with honor? It's just common human decency.

>You probably really fucking hurt her feelings too.

Do you seriously think, after all that, that I give a shit about her hurt feelings?

>You gave birth to her, you're responsible to give her the best life possible it's YOUR job to give them the best life they can have

Unless I switched genders and wasn't aware of it, I didn't give birth to her, and my responsibility for her extended only so far. And yes, it was my duty to see her raised properly and in a loving and good environment. Sadly, it did shit all apparently in instilling some kind of decency or sense of right and wrong in her.

>it's not her fucking job to please you.

Where are you getting this from? Who the fuck said a word about children pleasing their parents? If she ever gave a shit about me, she owed me the truth. That's it. Instead she lied to my face.

>Get with the fucking program and stop hurting your kids.

Except none of my other kids, all 5 of them, are being hurt. And all five of them understand what happened was absolutely horrible and disgusting. Their relationship with their sister is barely there because of what she did. Because at the end of the day, if she could do something like that to me, her father who loved and cared for her for more than 20 years, why would she give them any more consideration?

>The last thing my dad said was 'you're a dickhead' He died a few days later on my birthday.

To be fair, you do sound like a dickhead, so I can't fault the man for his observation. And I doubt he had any regrets about saying it.

>>18178858
I flushed my brothers drugs down the toilet because he's a fucking addict you piece of shit

>>18178879

How does that relate to anything you posted, when you just posted your father called you a dickhead, without providing context?

Given how entitled you act, it wasn't far fetched that you're simply an obnoxious cunt.

>>18178877
You're obviously here to either

1) forgive her and be a positive influence in her life

2) cut her out of it and never mention it to anyone

Which is it?

>>18178888

She's already cut out of my life. I'm not looking to forgive her. I'm looking for advice on how to go about when meeting new people, whom I then start get to know better and share with details of my life, and the subject of my daughter comes up.

So far, I'm leaning towards just never bringing her up again.

>>18178877
I don't think some of the other posts are saying you should forgive her, but that you should understand at least a little of why she did what she did from her perspective.

That kind of shut-down mentality of not even wanting to know that side of the story makes you come off as quite callous, which is likely why some people respond so negatively.

No one's saying you have no right to completely disown her, I think most people agree that what your daughter did was if not short of, then completely unforgivable.

Like everyone else is saying you have two options:

- Start talking to her again, with the understanding that she deserves every negative consequence

- Just don't mention it. Lie, say you're not close, you don't like to talk about it, it's a personal matter, etc. if you don't want any judgement just make sure new people don't find out.

>>18178735
I think that despite what you say you're desperately trying to cling on to the idea that it's not your fault your wife cheated on you and that everyone who's behind your suffering is perpetuating it. I also think that your initial question of whether or not to just imagine she doesn't exist when you communicate with others vs explaining yourself constantly is a defensive mechanism for this ego construct. Explaining yourself constantly tests the foundation of it and in order for you to suppress your acknowledgement of failure in yourself with regards to your wife you wish to bury everything.

>>18178903

>I think that despite what you say you're desperately trying to cling on to the idea that it's not your fault your wife cheated on you and that everyone who's behind your suffering is perpetuating it.

What kind of bullshit have they been feeding you?

Of course it's not my fault the ex cheated. If there were issues in the marriage, she could have talked to me about them. She didn't. She cheated. That's 100% on her.

>>18178907
Ah thank you for that. And my question to you is what have they been feeding you. You poor soul. Almost 50 and you haven't figured out how to own your shit.

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>>18178903
How's that psychology major going newfriend?

>>18178912

>own your shit

What shit? I'm not the one who cheated.

Seriously, why are you so keen on blaming someone who's been a victim?

>>18178907
Also, Id suggest you truly reflect on your role in these coming years. Your life will stagnate and your children will be what's left of your essence. Forgive your daughter while you can. Come to understand rather than point fingers. You can find salvation in forgiveness of yourself and others but only when you come to terms with reality.

>>18178907
You're cherrypicking the stuff that's easy to respond to (yes, fucking obviously it's not your fault that you got cheated on, why even respond to that) and ignoring at least half of the advice (and challenges to your perspective) that you're receiving.

Why even bother, if that's how you're going to behave? Maybe it's satisfying but it's certainly not doing you any good.

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>>18178913
Kek, I just think that this is an aging man who has buried the truth of the matter so far down in his ego that a simple issue of ignoring vs forgiving someone is enough to cause such distraught

>>18178926
Truly, your experience and insight speaks volumes in the posts you write [spoiler]faggot [/spoiler]

>>18178932
<3

>>18178920

I didn't bother addressing the rest of his post, because he's clearly got an agenda here.

Everyone missed a point. I just read through all the replies prior to this.

The ex wife made a choice to cheat. Okay. The daughter could have either chose to tell her father, or not tell anyone. Those choices are equally hard. Excruciatingly painful.

But what everyone is missing is: the daughter fucked up. Instead of picking between the two choices, she also COVERED for the cheating ex-wife.

That's why op is so mad. He literally keeps having to repeat himself. I don't think he's in the wrong. If I were ever in the daughter's position, I'd probably secretly tell my dad what's up, so he'd find out sooner than later. But to know that my mom is driving the relationship apart...and basically defend her choice? Wow man

>>18178891
Ok...Why not the truth, that your entire family cut contact with her for her behavior?

>>18178946

The thing is there's still people who think I should just take my daughter back, forgive her for what she's done. It's not a constant issue, but it's annoying that they feel like I should defend my actions or repent when I've done nothing wrong to begin with.

>>18178943
And what agenda would that be good friend? This is a Polynesian basket weaving board.

What your doing now is throwing up more defenses to protect that fragile ego.

See
>>18178920
(I don't agree with the part about it not being your fault though)

I mean this with all sincerity, attempt to cast aside your victim card. Reflect on why thing might have gone the way they did (inb4 you don't think I have already). If you can't see why it's your fault I think you might have delusions of the nature of how love works.

Your daughter is young. Her decisions were not from a wise mind. You're a coward for not coming to terms with your own issues and forcing others to suffer in place.

>>18178650
You value honesty; you need to keep being honest about it. Default initial reaction to such news will always be sadness/shock; that's because it's a shocking/sad situation.

If you can't hack dealing with explaining it all over and over, maybe leave out the details "I don't keep in touch with that one; it's complicated") until you're deeper into a relationship. That way you won't waste the energy on telling the whole sordid tale to every damn person you meet; only the ones who stick around long enough for you to feel like elaborating.

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>>18178840
So you're saying that OP should forgive his daughter because she's a spineless coward with no moral integrity? Fair enough.

>>18178944
People aren't missing that, they just disagree with you that it utterly changes the situation.

>>18178943
I am not talking about the rest of his post, I am talking about the several other posts (clearly from several different posters) that you've utterly ignored at this point in favor of ones that overreach and say things that the vast majority of people would disagree with. The ones that are easy to reply to and shoot down, in other words.

>>18178964
>I can't infer from context clues the point being made by this individual

Yeah... okay

>>18178856
>Get your emotions in check
Yeah, I don't get why his daughter should be upset about being ignored. If she is, she needs to learn to control herself.

>>18178650

I'll be honest OP, it sounds like you are treating both your wife and daughter like the grown adults they should be treated as.

Godspeed OP.

>>18178903
Internalized cuckoldry: The post.

>>18178964
>So you're saying that OP should forgive his daughter because she's a spineless coward with no moral integrity? Fair enough.
Hm, let's look at what I wrote.
>And hold on -- I'm not telling you to reconcile with your daughter
>Put more simply, it's not that your decision was wrong

You skimmed my post and misread it, badly. I didn't tell him to forgive her, not even once. In fact, I quite explicitly avoided saying that.

But I understand -- nuance is hard. It's much easier to distort what people wrote into an (inaccurate) one-sentence caricature and dismiss it with a reaction gif.

>>18178969
>>18178920
>>18178840
These, the people here who are opposing you and basically calling you out can see that your emotions are not legitimate. You're hiding behind so many defenses you just won't open yourself up to getting over it. No shit it hurts knowing your wife cheated, no shit she shouldn't have, and your daughter shouldn't have done what she did but the thing is, if you were such an outstanding man as to not be cheated on, you wouldn't have been. Accept that you have faults. Fix things with your daughter. That's the hard way of dealing with whether or not you should just pretend she doesn't exist so you can stop explaining to others your whole fabrication of bullshit. Influence your daughter for the better.

>>18178999

>if you were such an outstanding man as to not be cheated on, you wouldn't have been.

Oh wow, even more victim blaming.

>>18179001
>victim blaming

If I were your wife I'd cheat on you too. You sound like an insufferably dense cunt where no ray of shining light can penetrate. Maybe there is a handsome goodlooking fellow out there who doesn't need my emotional support who would be willing to penetrate my rubber wreaking canal, my husband obviously doesn't fit the bill.

>>18179005

t. cheater trying to excuse its own behavior

>>18179010
Cheating is absolutely decadent but to ignore the reality that you can be an inadvertent driving force for it to happen is delusional.

>>18178674
>The problem is when I start getting close with people, and you can't really just brush off those questions so easily.

I say that you tell them as soon as it comes up. If they think you're a monster for it, it indicates that your values are too different for you two to get along in the long term.

If you wait until they're attached to you before telling, they might feel obligated to accept it, but deep down harbor contempt for your attitude---Also bad for a long-term relationship.

If you never tell them at all, you're a hypocrite for keeping things hidden, the way your daughter did.

>>18179017

I mean, you do realize there's people out there cheating in perfectly decent relationships as well, right? It's not that there's something wrong with the relationship or the other (innocent) person, it's just that cheaters themselves that are fucked up.

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>>18178674
>>18179020
>If you never tell them at all, you're a hypocrite for keeping things hidden, the way your daughter did.

>>18179020

>If you never tell them at all, you're a hypocrite for keeping things hidden, the way your daughter did.

That's one way to look at it, but the truth is I don't feel it necessary to keep it hidden, because I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Has she tried to apologize and explain her reasons to you op? Or your wife?

You want to know if it's right or wrong to tell people about your daughter and what happened on the first few dates? My advice, no don't tell them a thing. You are not obligated to. Would they be in danger if you didn't, like if you were a molester , rapist, or had aids? When I first read the story, you turned me off by saying you disowned your daughter. My opinion is different than yours about the situation. I would be furious and deeply hurt, maybe not talk to her for a long time but never disown. I believe people are not perfect and make mistakes. If you fool me once shame on you kinda thing. I believe in second chances maybe three depending on the situation, but that's me and I'm not you. But anyway, your story will be a turn off. Maybe in time if you are seeing the person for a long time, maybe you can go into more detail and even then it may cause trouble because they will feel you hid something from them, especially women. It would take an understanding person to understand that it's really none of their business what happened with your family and daughter, that if you do tell them it's because you want to and it's not a need, they won't be in danger because you didn't tell. Trust and understanding is earned in time. It would be better for the person to get to know you, know that you really are not a monster, that you are kind and gentle with a lot of love to give. You have your reasons for making your decision. I was not there to know every detail so, in good faith I trust your decision was just. But yeah at first, the story sounds bad. Use your judgement and in time if you feel comfortable with the person but not necessary.

Good luck, OP I feel ya.

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>>18178999
>if you were such an outstanding man as to not be cheated on, you wouldn't have been.
That's not how this works you cunt

>>18179005
Did you ever get cheated on? You wouldn't talk like that if that was the case

>>18179010
There are two sides. I 'cheated' on my wife because she was insufferable and refused to end the relationship, believing that she could be stronger than anything as long as we were committed and faithful. It was like, I've been asking for a divorce for two years now and sleeping in the spare room for one and we've done counselling and they've told you that you are completely crazy and not listening and this is a choice you are making which you are aware do you now realise?

At that point it was "omg my perfect marriage has fallen apart because of a corrupting snake omg betrayed despite my constant effort and loyalty omg". Like for fuck sake.

OP while you were wronged your reaction and actions since then don't sound particularly mature. I can imagine that anybody you date at that age has baggage and has learnt to recognise somebody who is damaged and not over their own baggage. After all you don't find yourself on the market at that age without damage. You can choose to enter a relationship because you are older and hopefully wiser and you are financially stable and it is a choice you make out of a positive desire, not because you are running from the demons of your past which you are clearly still processing.

I don't want to assume too much, but honestly you are painting a one dimensional story here and if I was hearing it I would be thinking, woah this guy is angry, yet trying to maintain high ground as a victim. I can relate to the anger, but once the lesson is learnt a wise person starts to let go over it rather than trying to utilise it to influence others. If you can't let go of it then you aren't over it, if you aren't over it you aren't in a position to enter into a relationship unless the other person is willing to take on that burden and it sounds like they can smell this on you.

Is cheating right? Is it justified? Does it still happen? Can it be justified? You need to be able to relate to show understanding to show that you have processed.

>>18179034

I haven't talked to the wife since I found out, aside from the cliche cheater bullshit she tried to peddle.

I did talk with my daughter and I have to say it hurt me deeply at the time. I just couldn't understand. Most of our last meeting she spent crying, telling me how she didn't mean to hurt me, but whenever I asked her why she covered for her mother, she just didn't say anything. I desperately wanted to know if this was something my ex-wife bullied her or emotionally blackmailed her into doing, but no, my daughter found out and kept silent for the first month, before even talking with her mother about it and then later on even covered for her.

People think I'm some kind of uncaring monster based on how I feel now, but back then I was absolutely crushed and devastated that the little girl I loved and raised could be like that. For me, my daughter had died and there was this horrible monster in her place, trying to get me to forgive the unforgivable.

>>18179041
Did you expect her to be I give zero fucks? Of course she was going to try to apologise, attempting to apologise for the inexcusable is not the sign of a monster. Having no answer for you is a sign of having no answer and being unable to explain it. Your little girl wasn't suddenly 25, you were supposed to come to terms with that when you caught her smoking, or trying to sneak boys into the house, or clearly riding all the dicks. You were always going to unearth a snake with tits and this image of her as a child to be protected is kind of weird and unrealistic and I imagine something you've created to simply trigger yourself when you go looking mentally to recall and paint yourself the mythology of what happened.

It sounds like your feelings and the pain you felt overrode everything else and nothing can get through to you because nobody else felt those feelings and as such nobody can speak to you with an opinion worth anything.

Like I've been divorced 8 years now. I talked about it maybe for a month or two, but I quite quickly realised I didn't want to be defined by a traumatic experience and if there was any social capital to be found amongst it I didn't want to benefit from it or attempt to exploit it.

Your reaction was very strong. People when they hear of this will want to know why it happened because it speaks volumes about you. You disowned a child for trying to cover for her parents because they didn't know how to deal with it based on your apparent code of honour. People are going to assume she was a child molester or a murderer or something.

>>18179023
Sure but the point is to illustrate to op that he can get past this and reconnect with his daughter if he's willing to come to terms with the force of his mind telling him that his daughter died and that she's a monster.

>>18179037
All women have the potential to do this, you can still decrease the probability if it happening

>>18179041
All of which is consistent with what all the posts you've been ignoring have been telling you: that it was an immensely difficult and stressful situation for her and that she just kind of ... folded under pressure. Her actions were not intentionally malicious. They were, however, cowardly.

People are beating up on you (in this thread and in RL) because you see your daughter as a monster. But her big failing is that she lacked moral courage. That is a serious failing, make no mistake. It makes her, at least in this one way, cowardly, and above all it makes her *weak.* It doesn't make her evil.

I've said it three times now and I'll say it one last time, I'm not telling you to forgive her, I'm telling you to open your fucking eyes and see her -- and the situation -- as they actually are. If, with your improved understanding, you still do not want your daughter back in your life, then fine -- I can promise people will be more accepting of your decision. For the last time, the problem is less your decision to disown her and more the complete lack of empathy and perspective behind that decision, which could not be more apparent.

>>18179054
Thanks for being concise. I'm sure a few of the others in this thread are lurking and agreeing with you but could not put it in terms you could. Best of luck to all and op.

>>18179041
Good for you OP.. Your daughter is probably a cheating whore herself and good thing you showed her how good, honest, loyal men should treat lying skanks.

>>18179052
Who are you to tell people they deserve to get cheated on (if you are that guy I responded too).
I cheated, I got cheated on. It was never something that my partner or I deserved. It's nothing I wish on anyone. The person who cheats know exactly that they are doing wrong even if they find their partner lacking

>>18179054
Yeah this. It isn't really worth debating or arguing over any more. Just accept that if you need to tell people about it, they'll react strongly to what you did and you will need to say something to the effect of ..

"of course the more time that passes since the raw emotional pain I felt in the moment the more perspective I can gain and I understand now that her actions were not calculated to be evil, they were just the icing on the cake at a very difficult time in my life. She just lacked the moral courage to do the right thing and she didn't deal with what was going on at the time very well. There has been a lot of fall out amongst the family and even now we've been unable to reconcile the situation"

Then you don't sound like a complete cretin babbling on about how your little baby girl was gone and suddenly before you stood a monster. Even if it is a lie because you aren't actually that empathic and emotionally insightful.

Also the boyfriend and family members who now 'hate' her? They likely do this out of a sense of loyalty towards you because they don't want the same treatment. You marriage ended, but you've forced people to take sides and declare loyalties, like the stupidest breakup ever because it takes the longest for everybody to recover from. In private, they likely discuss how they'd all love to move forward with a healthy healed situation (not forgiven or forgotten, different, but healed) but they don't want to trigger your dumb ass and cause you to spit your dummy out.

Also lol old people and muh will, muh money. I see so many try to maintain control as life disconnects them bit by bit from relevance with this and they never seem to learn shit like that is WHY life is disconnecting them bit by bit.

>>18179062
I am in agreeance. Human interaction is inherently deterministic and the actions of one individual are relative to the environment which they occupy. These vectors within said system must determine whether or not such an event will take place. Should there be no mechanism for interaction there will be none. I've cheated and been cheated on as well. I recognize that there are dos and dont's. With experience our perceptions become more in tune with those mechanisms and we can act accordingly.

>>18178650
Fact. Women cover for other women cheating. Men have a bro code and women a hoe code.

Look around OP and you will see nearly every family has one child that has either betrayed their parents or the child blamed a parent for a real or perceived slight and now estranged. When asked, just say you and your other children have a strained relationship with one daughter and then drop it.

>>18178650
Curious OP. Is your daughter in a relationship or married now? Her bf 4 years ago realized what she was and dumped but has she fooled so other sad sap?

forgive her, don't hold grudges, sooner or later we'll all die and she's your child, do you want to die as an old man filled with hate and regrets? it's hard to overcome your human nature and i understand she did you a lot of wrong but it is the way to spiritual growth and making the most out of our limited time here. just my 2 cents.

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>>18178999
>if you were such an outstanding man as to not be cheated on, you wouldn't have been

>bad things only happen to people who deserve it

>>18179067
>Just accept that if you need to tell people about it, they'll react strongly to what you did

Do you have the emotional intelligence of a 5 year old? You think that everyone will have the same opinion as you?

>>18179135
Oh yes of course I believe that everybody has the same reactions to me. I'm completely unable to perceive at all that others might have minds separate to my own. Occasionally in life I encounter situations which seem to run counter to this idea, but I just put this down to a quirk of the universe as basically I am the only sentient being and everybody else just simply reacts to my presence, a bit like trees or wind I guess? Man, you've caught me out so hard. Let me correct what I said so you can get back to rocking an erection pointlessly shooting fish in a barrel there, *most* people will feel strongly about your reaction.

I mean, come on, people who are curious about it in the first place are kind of self selecting to have a strong opinion about it. Somebody who feels nothing about such a situation likely wouldn't ask about it, wouldn't be in a conversation leading towards it in the first place, or even trying to get to know OP.

How is the date going? I AM INDIFFERENT TO ALL.

>>18179084
>Men have a bro code and women a hoe code.
*Man-hoes have a bro code, and hoes have a hoe code. FTFY.

>>18178650
>The problem here is that whenever I've formed new friendship or tried starting new relationships, and this subject matter comes up, people look at me like I'm a monster for disowning my daughter.

Because people these days are complete irresponsible faggots who think with feelings. You did nothing wrong. I've disowned my family just for being completely retarded and ignorant in general (and no, I'm not taking about me being "woke"). People should be held accountable for their actions. Forget the dumb bitch. You did good. Don't think you have no one on your side.

You can pretend she didn't exist. It doesn't really matter. Just forget about what touchy-feely, immoral faggots think. Such people should be shunned and hung by their entrails from a lamppost. They aren't people you should take seriously as human beings.

>>18179161

You have very naively idealistic expectations of how humans work and, unless there's a nuclear apocalypse and you end up being Caesar, there's a fair chance you'll end up killing yourself if you don't accept that morals are a fantasy ideal to aspire to, rather than something that can actually be consistently achieved.

>>18178874
>You'll never rationalise youth, potential, vitality, fear of ageing, fear of failure, weakness and death all in some complex equation involving your ego and purpose for existing being co-opted, reduced and gradually siphoned in a controlled way as a sacrifice made gladly for the next generation.
Really makes you think.

>>18178650
If tomorrow you were to get a call that your daughter had died in a car crash, how would you feel? Really do your best to imagine the situation. If you feel guilt and sadness, then try to reconnect with her. You don't have to forgive her and you don't have to trust her, but you only get one eldest daughter.

>>18178651
If you don't like how people react to what happened don't tell them about her. You said you legally disowned her, so just pretend she doesn't exist. That makes it easy and in the future if they learn you do have "x" daughter just be vague, we had a falling out several years ago, etc. If they press you say, "I don't want to talk about this" and move the conversation elsewhere.

>>18179174
Not everyone has morals, but there exist people who aren't immoral as fuck either. I'm not him but I totally get why someone would disown family.

You're naively idealistic for thinking you can coexist with scum and not have it rub off on you.

Look, I'm not a paragon of virtue. But to keep maliciously people around you is worse than having no one at all. The contrast widens once you realise normal people exist (again, not paragons of virtue, just those who aren't a shitbag).

>>18179174
>there's a fair chance you'll end up killing yourself
Or it'll end up with scum like you lined against a wall. People use moral relativism to justify their lack of them. I think people would straighten up real quick if things had consequences. Is that not how Hell worked? You're the one who loves in a fantasy, riding the coattails of a once successful and moral upholding civilization.

>>18179161
Thing is, here is what happens with normal people.

You disown somebody because withdrawing from them is supposed to be the ultimate punishment. At first they are hurt by this, but after a while, maybe they are angry for a bit, but they eventually are forced to accept that this choice was your own, and while they had an influence in the choice, this is now in the past, they have no influence over it now here in the present and any in the future is outside of their control because it depends upon another who cannot be ethically be controlled or coerced. So you learn from it and then you let go.

Meanwhile nobody is being held accountable for anything. The person who did the disowning should also move on from it, there is no further harm being done, no need to deal with it, process anything. If they are still angry about it then they are doing it wrong.

Ultimately this is why people end up forgiving or getting over things, because what is the point in holding onto a wound with somebody who doesn't even acknowledge your existence? Eventually you have to let go of it, once you do so, what is the point in remaining mad? Nobody is help accountable.

>>18178771
She had absolutely no way out.

Bullshit. These were not two equal options. It literally was covering up a crime vs. telling the truth about it. Obviously telling the truth about it was the harder path to take because she would be instigating a lot of anger and stress in her life and in the lives of others. She took the easy way out by ignoring the problem.

>>18179184
I'm saying he should be able to kill his wife and beat his daughter. Disowning her is another thing; no one should keep a snake in their chicken coop.

But you're an idiot with no real solutions.

>>18178853
You sound like a dickhead.

>>18178650
the answer is always: MOVE ON.

Unforgiveness is wrong. She hurt you and you're right to feel angry but you need to forgive her. She's your daughter man, and holding a grudge will hurt you just as much (if not more) it hurts her. What she did was wrong and there's no getting around that, but you should forgive your daughter anyways. Do you want to spend the rest of your short life holding on to this? Wouldn't you like to be reconciled with her and to put all this in the past? I know some part of you has to love her. Let it go. Just let it go.

I'm sure what OP wants to hear after the dust has settled is basically. I'm really sorry Dad. I made a massive mistake and I betrayed you because I was weak. I took everything you've done for me, all you've taught me and the sacrifices you've made for granted and I completely understand your reaction. You should be disgusted by me because I turned out to be everything you hoping I wouldn't.

Then you are like, great I won, and you can either talk or not, whatever, just as long as she knows she is always a completely irredeemable piece of shit failure.

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>>18178651
Stop telling people about it.

OP, I've been in the middle, my sis did basically exactly what happened to you to my Dad with only a few minor differences.
I quite honestly do not blame you in the slightest. Cheating is in under no circumstances ever ok, not from a religious view but from a basic human being's point of view, that's a whole other convo but my answer to you is-
No. It's ok to contact her and try to patch things up a little bit, but no matter how much you fix a sunk boat it wont unsink. Your ex started it all, she hit you in the worst parts a man can be hit, she instigated the fucking attrocious things she did, yet despite all that when you were both hanging off the cliff she chose your mother. If she truly cares that little and thinks you're such a terrible person she's not only not your family, but she's also very clearly been fucking hypnotized by your bitch ex wife, my Mom did the same thing to one of my sisters and my """Sis""" did the exact same thing as your daughter.

I've seen both sides of view and even been ON both sides of each person before and I could safely say by the time I was 12 my mother was a cruel malevolent bitch, family isn't blood, that's lineage. Families rely on each other, families help each other in times of need and at the very least are there for the "leader of the pack", I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you made the money, you paid the bills, you did the shit and everyone leeched off it and gave back scraps and called it fair. She's not family, she's a parasite in a symbiotic relationship with the other parasite, your Ex. You're 50 you should be settling down in a cabin on the hills. Not desperately hoping the leeches that crippled and destroyed you for at MINIMUM 20 years come back and do the same. I'm not a nihlistic person but this is one place where anything but putting your foot down is fucking vomit inducingly idiotic at best.

>>18178840
You know how the say "Walk a mile in my shoes?"
You clearly didn't do that. You just saw this and started bitchposting about >"Muh morals" >"Muh personal opinion on how u should raise ur chiled" >"Muh never had a chuld but I kno more den u" >"Muh never been in dis sishuation buh ah know better then u"

>>18178650
>whenever I've formed new friendship or tried starting new relationships, and this subject matter comes up, people look at me like I'm a monster for disowning my daughter

People who think like that are not even people

You should wish for them only the same and much worse, I would do it out loud but I don't know if I can recommend that, a lot of people already hate me for doing and saying things in that manner. But I don't regret it at all, looking at those people it would be unbearable to pretend I respect them.

>>18178651
>>18178666

I'd go for a slight version of 666 Pegafag's advice.
> just say that you and her no longer are on speaking terms
Bound to lead to follow-up questions.

Just tell potential partners that your daughter resents you for reasons you never understood, which lead to her keeping her mom's secret, and since the divorce SHE doesn't talk to you. It's not really a lie, but you don't have to write large about resenting your daughter, because honestly my man, this is fucked enough for you to regretting it on your death bed.

Try being a little more zen, you never know what her real reasons were. Have you ever considered that your daughter was scared of what would happen? Some people, even 25 year olds, get severe anxiety sometimes. Not trying to defend her, but you'll benefit from less anger in your life.

p.s. haven't read the thread

>>18179054
This anon has presented a fairly cogent argument. I don't think OP is wrong, but I don't think his daughter intrinsically acted maliciously. However her inability to articulate why she acted the way she did when he sat down with her is fairly damning.
I think OP should just be judicious about who he shares the full details of this story with. My mother is estranged from her daughter, and she chooses not to share the details of that with people just because they ask. Once a relationship progresses into an actual relationship then maybe you can share those, but a budding/blossoming relationship doesn't obligate you to share, even if they ask. Just say you'll talk about it when you're ready. Anybody OP is dating that's worth a shit will understand and respect that

What a bitter, lonely old man you are.

My 60 yr old father has had a crappy life, especially after my mom died and we found out a bunch of shit (especially financially) she did behind his back. Stuff that put us in bankruptcy.

But he didn't let it bother him, didn't fully resent her. He picked up and carried on. He has since reinforced friendships and found a woman he is head over heels in love with, and I'm happy because he is happy.

I hid financial shit from him related to mom because she was bald and dying from cancer while desperately pleading with me to not tell dad about open credit cards and debt.

My father acted like an adult, sat me down, and explained why what I did was very wrong, and I should know better about fibbing to him at 20 years old. But then he stated he saw my reasoning and emotions behind why I did what I did and said he forgave me, and to always tell him everything.

We are really close now, I'm pregnant with my first and he is the most excited I've ever seen him.

Think about the bigger picture.

Dont blame your daughter. I knew my dad was cheating and didnt tell my mom eighter. I had some hope by not telling that they would stay together. And for the record its really hard to know that about your parents. Dont hate your daughter for it. Think about what is was like for her. Hope u can forgive her. Life is 2 short for hatred

>>18178650
You should not forgive her.

>>18179824

I hope your mother suffered in her last moments.

>>18179084
Nah, it's more like KNOWING it's fuck shit but you shouldn't be a snitch, because the man or woman should have the balls to come out and say it him or herself.

And it's no business of mine to be destabilizing people emotionally. Let the fuck-up take responsibility.

>>18179824

In my mind, this is not on the same level as cheating. Cheating is inexcusable, and OP has the right to completely drop his ex-wife, and I commend him for doing so. The daughter one is a little trickier... I too would resent her, but that's just me.

>inb4 hur dur you're not a REAL man

>>18178650
>Suffice to say, I have cut off all ties with my daughter.
Mate, what the fuck? It'd be silly if a kid did that but a grown ass man?

>who knew of her mother's affair and kept it secret from me
Maybe she didn't want to butt in into a thing between you and your wife and risk more conflict in the house? Have you at least tried to understand her reason or was it all knee-jerk reaction?

>as if I was the one who did wrong
It makes sense when it comes to your wife, I'd make sense if it'd be a friend but this is your kid and instead of acting like a father, you act like a faggot. Is it really that surprising that people see it as an overreaction?

>But I've reached the point where I'm considering just not telling anyone new I meet about my situation
It'll work fine with random acquaintances but it won't work with people closer to you in the long run and will cause even more conflict, making you look even worse and so on.

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>>18178650

You're a giant cunt and your daughter is better off without you.

>>18180102
Both are breaks of trust, (and financial shit tends to have bigger consequences) the only reason you perceive cheating as worse is due your ego ... which is perfectly human but also pretty silly.

Also it's less of not a real man and more of not a real parent which is so much worse. Cutting contact with wife (and let's say the best friend she cheated with) would be all normal and understandable. Treating your own kid like shit because she was in a lose-lose situation and didn't decide in the way you like ... that's beyond pathetic.

OP I can change your life if you read this message. Do not think this is an april fools lie because it will work and you will see for yourself that it does. Your situation is no joking matter.

I tell you the truth. I was actually cured of a medical issue I had that wasn't responding to anything the doctors were doing for years. Cured in less than 30 seconds. By doing a specific prayer from the bible. As a last resort with almost no religious beliefs. As I said this prayer and while I was suffering so much, I felt this indescribable sensation in my head move down my spine and it gave my whole body chills. And then suddenly I was fine.

So I give my gift to you and everyone here. Proof that GOD is actually real. Placebos couldn't have done that.

It wasn't an ordinary prayer. Most people use regular prayers if they pray at all. In the bible, there is a special prayer that Jesus says to use.

I want you to think about all the pain this has caused you.And then in that suffering say this prayer out loud.If nothing happens, then say it again and again until it does. It WILL happen.

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.

You will feel all your pain suddenly taken away. But in that moment although you will be helped, at that point in time you will not be doing everything to get into heaven. So it will still be possible for you to run into the snags and evil issues in life that threaten to take your soul to hell that will cause you more torment in this life. So after this experience go to this website to study the bible and learn what jesus says must be done to get into heaven. Those teachings are in the new testament. Mainly in matthew/mark/luke/john https://www.biblegateway.com/

>>18180147

You make a good point. I suppose the most prudent thing I would do in this case is to carefully gauge why my daughter did what she did. Was she somehow trying to save her mother from the fallout, spare me of the pain, avoid the family being torn apart, or all of the above? This would certainly impact my decision. But then again, if she was trying to look out for her mom, what about me? Don't I have the right to know that my own wife is cheating on me?

I haven't read all of OP's posts to understand the motive behind the daughter's actions, but I still think under certain conditions I would not be able to forgive her.

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>>18180296

>but I still think under certain conditions I would not be able to forgive her.

You can't understand fatherhood until you have children. If you had children you would understand what an utter piece of shit OP is.

OP's daughter was put into a position where she had to either keep a terrible secret or single handedly destroy her parent's marriage. She had to make a choice between crushing her mother by telling her father or crush her father by not telling him. We don't even know if this was a secret OP's daughter was intentionally holding back or if she was just so terrified having the information and what it could do to her family that she just wasn't able to do anything. Hell, if it were me, I'd probably pretend like I didn't see or anything or I didn't know. I couldn't possibly begin to imagine what it must be like to be in a position where I have to destroy my parents' lives.

In what universe could any decent, empathetic father not understand the inherent terror and dread of being a child in that situation? How torn up she must have been? And then, on top of that, to respond to this situation by completely abandoning your own child? Your own flesh and blood?

OP is a hunk of shit and terrible father. It doesn't matter what your child does, you never abandon them. You never give up on them, even if they make mistakes. Building a relationship again may be difficult and require a lot of communication and perhaps an apology but to absolutely abandon her and allow the rest of the family to turn on her is reprehensible.

Prioritizing your pain and vengeance over the well-being of your own child makes you a cunt and an unfit parent. Period.

>>18180220
This. So much this.

>>18180337
And also this.
Listen to these wise anons OP

>>18180337

That all makes sense. I'm only 24 and not a father, so you're probably right that I don't understand fatherhood yet.

Cheers.

Do not forgive your daughter. If her relationship with your sons is nonexistent, it's because she deserved all that has happened.

If I knew one of my parents had an affair I would berate them and disown them. I would shame them for life, for your daughter to go so far as even side with you Ex-wife she is not your daughter.

Don't mention it and just tell people you don't want to talk about it.

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I'm not saying your daughter was right, but in her shoes, hiding the affair probably meant a chance of her parents sticking together. I can see why you're pissed though and you certainly know the details, but tell me this.

Why did your wife cheat on you?

>>18178650
Fuck gramps, im just sad your sense of decency and justice destroyed your relationship with your daughter.

Sure you have your morals and your way of life. And sure 5 more kids so one more or less can't be that much of an impact.

You do sound like an old codger that puts discipline and manners before understanding and love ( to an extent), and that is in no sense a bad thing.

A youngfag here with a father that cheated on his mother. Found out about it when the maam sat the whole family down and recited the emals the man shared with the mistress.

Hated my dad so much after it. Still if i found out first, i dont think i could have just tattletaled him to my mom. Sure i was younger, but come on. Your parents are always the older, more sensible adults then you are. Always. Even when they are idiots.

Sorry, you said you don't care for comments like these, but my man old codger, im asking of you to reconcile with your piece of shit daughter, just to humor me.

>>18178650
Okay, first, the average person just isn't going to understand your choices. The fact that you have to defend your actions like you're in the wrong is sort of an indicator of this. I'm really not trying to attack you, and you're a grown man that can handle his business however he likes, but honestly, it's the sort of thing that's going to raise red flags with people.

The next problem is, if you get close to people, eventually the fact you have kids will come up. You don't have to tell every person you meet your situation. And you don't have to tell everyone right away. But outside of superficial relationships, eventually the fact you've disowned child is going to get brought up.

I just don't know what it is you want to hear. Do you want to hear that it's okay to lie to people about your situation? Because if you're in a committed relationship, it's not. As you already said, you believe people have to face the consequences of their actions. Having to defend your choices is your consequence.

>>18180220
If saying Our Fathers repeatedly could cure disease there wouldn't be a sick Catholic in the world.

>>18180337
OP screams of narcissism. And I don't mean regular old "I'm just kind of self involved and haven't thought out how my actions affect other people" narcissism. I mean like Nothing in the world is more important than me, my family exists for my sake, personality disorder level narcissism.

>>18179859

From OP's post, the daughter didn't just keep her mouth shut. She covered for her mom. Those are two completely different things.

>>18180889

You sound like someone that's never dealt with an actual narcissist, because I'm not getting that from his posts at all. Maybe a little projection on your part?

>>18180981
OP is making a massive deal out of stupid relationship shit

He is acting like an angry child

>>18180983
>OP is making a massive deal out of stupid relationship shit
He's not. He has personal standards that you disagree with (and that's okay) but that doesn't make him a narcissist.

>teach a child to be an upstanding human being
>they do the exact opposite and even spit in your face
>after raising them to adulthood and investing all that time and money into them

Perfectly valid reason to disown a child.

Just like how it's perfectly valid for a child to cut ties with a parent who never provided anything.

If anyone gives you shit OP then they've probably lived a very sheltered life.

>>18180997
Different Anon, if he had those standards he wouldn't be considering lying through omission about his situation to others. They're an excuse to protect his ego, as much as running away from any self-doubt is. Every time he explains it he's forced to examine his choice, in the one last way he has left. He's pushed away any reconciliation with his daughter and pushed her away so that he doesn't have to examine the feelings. He's held onto his anger and kept it raw so that he doesn't have to examine his actions. And now he's looking to start lying about it, so he can push away those actions in general.

I'm not fucking stupid, I've done the same thing. It's entirely human to want to protect yourself and take the easier road out (much like OP's daughter did- regardless of whether she lied on behalf of her mother or merely lied through omission). She could have lied to OP and said that she WAS pressured into it as he so desperately wanted to believe. She didn't. She didn't know what to say, but she was willing to own up to her actions. If anything that speaks to a higher level of self-reflection OP possesses. It's not easy to think deeply about yourself and decide you might have done something bad or worse - might be a flawed person.

I get he was upset and hurt - who wouldn't be? But instead of processing those feelings and working through them once he decided it was too hard to he spent the rest of his life running away and is looking to hide evidence of that now, so that he can start lying to himself.

>>18181044
>a higher level of self-reflection than OP possesses.

Fixed.

>>18181044
>Different Anon, if he had those standards he wouldn't be considering lying through omission about his situation to others.
But that's the thing. The whole point of this post is that he doesn't want to lie, and so far, he hasn't. He's looking for solutions.

>He's pushed away any reconciliation with his daughter and pushed her away so that he doesn't have to examine the feelings.
Having cut off several toxic family members myself, including my own father, I don't see anything wrong with his choice. It's under completely different circumstances, but I still don't think that someone being family gives them certain rights to being part of your life. I've processed my feelings, and when I think of him, I'm no longer angry or hurt. But I still don't want to interact with him.

>>18181089
I cut my father out of my life too Anon. He threatened to kill me, and prior to that he was physically and emotionally abusive. Know what the difference between us and OP is? He's holding onto those emotions still. He hasn't examined any of his negative thoughts or feelings, or anything he should have or could have done to handle the situation better. He's still hiding from those with his anger. He's now looking to run away even further by lying. He didn't ask if there were better ideas, his question was literally should he never bring her up again. He wants validation to avoid the doubts he's having about doing that. His whole shtick is running away.

I absolutely agree with you that someone being family does not make it okay for them to do as they like and it's definitely okay to cut them out of your life. In this particular situation OP was not justified in doing so, he reacted out of hurt and spite because the alternative was too painful for him to deal with, and has maintained that because, again, it was too painful for him to consider an alternative. Cutting out people from your life who bring concrete harm to you /regularly/ and are abusive /regularly/ is very different from cutting out people who have made an error in judgement that caused you to deal with negative feelings but you had a very positive relationship with up until that point.

>>18178650

Another oldfag here. You needn't forgive your daughter. You also needn't EXPLAIN or DEFEND your decision to cut her out of your life.

If someone asks about her, you keep it terse and simple; "We're no longer close and i don't care to discuss the matter." That's all you need to say.

If someone presses for more information, tell them it is none of their business. If they keep asking, tell them to fuck off.

It's really that simple.

>>18180337
>You never give up on them, even if they make mistakes.
Except there are many mistakes that would make it worthwhile to give up on them, we can look at death row to remind us that blanket statements are pretty fucking stupid.

We're actually arguing if this is bad enough to drop the child which is a bit harder to demonize.

>>18178650
You shouldn't. Don't tell them - they couldn't begin to understand the situation anyway.

>>18178879

Just because you may have a just cause, doesn't mean you aren't a dickhead

Ya dickhead

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>>18178853
> if my mother was seeing someone that wasn't my dad then it would be her business.
>The last thing my dad said was 'you're a dickhead'
Truly this retards father was taken from us too soon.

>>18181089
The parent/child relationship isn't a two way street. A parent's relationship to their child is not the same as a child's relationship to their parent. A parent has obligations to their children that a child does not have to their parents. Cutting a shitty parent out of your life isn't the same as cutting a shitty child out.

And I'm not saying that there aren't circumstances where it's not necessary. I had to watch my aunt remove her daughter from her life because my cousin was a raging drug addict, and after years of trying, it was obvious nothing was going to change. And I support my aunt in that decision.

But this is the difference: OP cut his daughter out of his life over making a single bad decision, in a shitty situation, where making a bad decision was pretty easy (For fucks sake, I've been in that situation with two friends and I struggled to figure out the right choice, I can't imagine what it must feel like to be stuck between your parents like that). Not because she had a history of being a shitty daughter. Not because her behavior was inherently selfish or malicious.

>>18181219

>Except there are many mistakes that would make it worthwhile to give up on them, we can look at death row to remind us that blanket statements are pretty fucking stupid.

"Giving up" on a child is not a vindictive experience. Its not something that a parent does as an act of revenge. Death row can remind us that loving our children is often not enough to put them on the right track in life but even in their last moments, when they stick the needle into them you still love your kid. You have to. That's what being a parent is.

Its the same concept we have with all of our family. Just because we don't like them or even hate the things that they do doesn't mean we don't love them.

You don't abandon your child, especially if its an act of revenge. OP is a shitty father. Thats the long and the short of t.

>>18181248
>when they stick the needle into them you still love your kid. You have to. That's what being a parent is.
If I found out my kid was butchering kids I'd probably be rooting for them to pull the lever myself and there would be no love lost. Am I using an absurdly extreme example? Sure. To remind us that blanket statements are fucking dumb. "Never" is an extremely strong word that you are not giving adequate weight.

>>18181248
>"Giving up" on a child

He's not giving up on a child. He's giving up on an adult.

Adults own the consequences of their decisions. She decided to help her mother hide her adultery. She can now live with the consequences.

>>You don't abandon your child, especially if its an act of revenge.

It's not a act of revenge. It's one of self preservation. His daughter has proved she cannot be trusted.

>>18180981
I have dealt with a narcissist before. I was raised by one. And it could be projection. I don't think it is, but it could be.

It seems to me that OP's reaction is extreme (and most people would agree with that). Nobody is saying he doesn't have the right to be mad at his daughter. No one is saying that this wouldn't strain their relationship. But almost half a decade later, he's still mad at her. He's not just mad at her, he's demonized her. For fuck's sake, he literally referred to his daughter as a monster.

He has NO empathy or sympathy for her. He doesn't care about how his own daughter feels. He doesn't care if the whole situation caused her any harm, back then or now that he's cut her off. He doesn't care that he relationship with her siblings has been strained. He give no shits about a person that is supposed to be one of the most important people in his life.

And all this, why? Because she didn't choose his side. He won't even acknowledge that maybe it was difficult situation for his daughter and she didn't know how to act. His exact words are , "She wasn't stuck in the middle, she chose her mother over me." He's pissed because his daughter chose to protect her mother, rather than side with him.

And his big problem is, not that he has some sort of conflicting feeling over his daughter, not that he misses her or has any regrets about what happened, that he's tired of people acting like he's in the wrong, and doesn't want to have to defend himself. He's tired of people looking at him like he did something wrong.

At the same time, he says that everyone being mad at his daughter is proof that she was wrong, but suddenly, when everyone else acts like he may be wrong, it's a fucking burden and they don't know what they are talking about.

So yeah, the focus on himself over others, the lack of empathy, the overreaction and vindictiveness, this all kind of says "Narcissist" to me. I could be wrong, but that's what I see.

>>18181279
They don't stop being your child, even if they are adults.

>>18179030
>the truth is I don't feel it necessary to keep it hidden, because I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Therefore…

>>18179020
>I say that you tell them as soon as it comes up. If they think you're a monster for it, it indicates that your values are too different for you two to get along in the long term.

Not my post, but why reinvent the wheel?

>>18181332
>They don't stop being your child,

True, but there eventually comes point where you need to start treating them as an adult instead of a child. Isn't that one of the major complaints you millennial faggots make? Stop treating me like a child?

The OP's daughter made her choices. She can now own the consequences.

>>18181329
>He has NO empathy or sympathy for her.

She had NO empathy or sympathy for him.

>He doesn't care about how his own daughter feels.

She didn't care about how her own father felt.

>He doesn't care if the whole situation caused her any harm

She didn't care if the whole situation caused him any harm.

>He doesn't care that he relationship with her siblings has been strained.

She didn't care that her choices would mean her relationships with her would be strained.

>He give no shits about a person that is supposed to be one of the most important people in his life.

>She gave no shit about a person that is supposed to be one of the most important people in her life.

>And all this, why? Because she didn't choose his side. He won't even acknowledge that maybe it was difficult situation for his daughter and she didn't know how to act. His exact words are , "She wasn't stuck in the middle, she chose her mother over me." He's pissed because his daughter chose to protect her mother, rather than side with him.

She didn't choose a "side". She chose to LIE REPEATEDLY about her mother's disgusting actions. Her mother CHOSE to destroy the family and she CHOSE to help.

It's worth noting that the two people who chose to destroy the family, the mother and daughter, are the only people now estranged from what's left of that family. The father and the other siblings are still a family. The two cunts who having and hiding an affair were more important than that family are now no longer part of it.

The punishment in this case neatly fits the crime.

>>18182350
So now OP wants to lie to other people due being butthurt over his daughter and wife lying to him. Sounds reasonable.

>>18182364
>So now OP wants to lie to other people

No. He's tired of explaining to people like you why he's cut his daughter out of his life so the actual advice he's been given is to stop trying to explain.

While I'm not surprised by all the childish whining in support of the two women posted this thread, I cannot help but wonder what the response would have been if the genders had been reversed.

If a woman had started this thread and explained how she cut her son out of her life after he knew of her husband's affair and kept it secret, I'm mortally certain that the same simpletons urging the OP forgive and forget would be advising the woman NOT to.

The "Pussy Pass" is so ingrained and reflexive that many people aren't even aware when they're applying it.

>>18181260

>If I found out my kid was butchering kids I'd probably be rooting for them to pull the lever myself and there would be no love lost.

That sentence right there shows that you're not a parent, therefore, you don't really know what you're talking about. Its easy to say it now but after you've look at your child for the very first time everything changes.

If you ever have a kid you'll know what I'm talking about.

>"Never" is an extremely strong word that you are not giving adequate weight.

When it comes to the things you do for your child "never" and "always" are the only words to use. Again, you don't have a child so none of this is going to make sense to you.

>>18181279

>He's not giving up on a child. He's giving up on an adult.

Your child is always your child, regardless of their age.

>It's not a act of revenge. It's one of self preservation. His daughter has proved she cannot be trusted.

There is no danger here. He's angry at her and now he's punishing her. That is revenge.

>>18182413
>the actual advice he's been given is to stop trying to explain
That was the advice given to him which is indeed better than what he had in mind. He considered not telling about it, which is lying by omission. Bit weird over a guy who had such a fit over lies.

> I'm mortally certain that the same simpletons urging the OP forgive and forget would be advising the woman NOT to.
I'd worry about your mortality there. If a women made a thread like that 90% of people would call her a crazy, bitter cunt and would be just as right as the people criticizing OP. Though most would probably blame her for a random problem in society too.

The idea that gender is relevant for a parent acting like a little kid is bizarre at best.

>>18182426
>Again, you don't have a child so none of this is going to make sense to you.
I agree with basically everything you say sans this shit. You don't need a parent to have a minimal amount of perspective and empathy.

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>>18182350

>She chose to LIE REPEATEDLY about her mother's disgusting actions. Her mother CHOSE to destroy the family and she CHOSE to help.

All of this is your assumption. OP never said any of these things, you did. You're also not providing any reverence to the fact that a child was faced with the burden of having to destroy her family. No matter what she did she would of had to crush either her mother or her father.

You're painting this story to make the daughter look like a vindictive cunt on purpose to fit your narrative, not because its the reality of what happened.

>>18182413

>While I'm not surprised by all the childish whining in support of the two women posted this thread

Then you haven't been reading the thread. We've been criticizing OP, not supporting the two women. Those aren't the same thing.

The fact of the matter is that his wife is a cheater and he left her. Ok, we get that. OP, however, has a duty to the welfare of his child that surpasses his own hurt feelings.

His daughter was shouldered with the responsibility of destroying her family and you guys pretend like telling everyone and watching your family fall apart is supposed to be an easy choice.

There is SO MUCh we don't know. Maybe OP's daughter was terrified and couldn't bring herself to do it. Maybe she just wanted to pretend she didn't see anything and hope her parents would stay together. Maybe OP's mother promised she would break it off and begged her not to say anything.

There are so many possibilities that allow some sort of empathy for OP's daughter being stuck in such an awful position but you don't want to see any of those possibilities because you're a red-pilled faggot that only likes stories in which you can hate the women.

>>18182438

>I agree with basically everything you say sans this shit.

I understand what you mean but its true. I heard that shit for years and felt it was a bunch of condescending nonsense but honestly, there are so many things that aren't going to click for you until you look into the eyes of your child for the first time.

A minimal amount of perspective and empathy can give you insight into what you might do with your child in certain situations but none of that means dick until you're actually a parent and have to shoulder that responsibility yourself.

So, like I said, when you have a kid you'll understand what I'm talking about. I'm sorry if it sounds like grown up talk down shit like "You'll understand when you're older" but its true and, unfortunately, the most simple way of explaining it.

>>18182426
>Your child is always your child, regardless of their age.

Sooner or later you must treat your children as adults and I say that as someone with adult children.

>Its easy to say it now but after you've look at your child for the very first time everything changes.

Spare us the Hallmark card schmaltz, faggot. If you child is in the wrong you child is in the wrong. While you'll want to do anything and everything for them, you also know that if they are ever to become adults they must accept the consequences of their actions and choices.

Sooner or later they have to grow up. Sooner or later you can no longer act like a fairy godmother and make everything right again with a wave of your magic wand.

>There is no danger here.

There is no CURRENT danger. She was a danger in the past and she will be a danger in the future. His daughter has already proven she cannot be trusted on the most fundamental level so there is no reason to trust her now or in the future.

>He's angry at her and now he's punishing her. That is revenge.

He feels sorry for her and the situation she now must face is the direct consequence of her own choices and actions.

I know it's hard for many people nowadays to understand this and especially as their entire lives have been little but people making excuses for them and their actions, but adults own the consequences of their choices.

>>18182466
>I know it's hard for many people nowadays to understand this and especially as their entire lives have been little but people making excuses for them and their actions, but adults own the consequences of their choices.

I find it really ironic people keep defending OP with this when his question was asking if it was okay to run away from the consequences of his own actions. >>18178651

>>18182438
>He considered not telling about it, which is lying by omission.

No. He's considering not sharing the episode with all and sundry. I know it's hard for many people these days who are so programmed to share every jot and tittle of their banal lives on social media, but privacy and keeping one's own counsel are good things.

By choosing not the "share" this incident with everyone he meets, the OP isn't lying.

>>18182446
>You're also not providing any reverence to the fact that a child was faced with the burden of having to destroy her family. No matter what she did she would of had to crush either her mother or her father.

What you're failing to understand, because it's reflexive to absolve women of all agency in their lives, is that the mother ALREADY DESTROYED the family. The daughter then chose to cover up a crime already committed and thus compounded the offense.

Whether the daughter made that decision out wishful thinking or "terror" or something else is beside the point. The daughter made her choice and she can now suffer the consequences like all adults should.

It wasn't in the daughter's power to choose or not to choose to destroy the family. Her mother had already done so.

>you guys pretend like telling everyone and watching your family fall apart is supposed to be an easy choice.

The moral choice is rarely the easy one. The moral choice is still, however, the right choice.

>empathy for OP's daughter

I've as little empathy for the daughter as she had for her father and siblings.

>you're a red-pilled faggot that only likes stories in which you can hate the women.

I don't hate women. I acknowledge them for what they are: Human beings with agency in their lives and not perpetual victims.

>>18182480
>I find it really ironic people keep defending OP with this when his question was asking if it was okay to run away from the consequences of his own actions.

That wasn't his question. As he explains, "I'm tired of explaining myself to people, and then having to defend my actions as if I was the one who did wrong."

He's asking whether he owes anyone an explanation and whether he needs to constantly defend his decisions. He doesn't in the former and he needn't in the latter.

>>18178651
You should forgive your daughter. Watch Crazy Heart and Tender Mercies. Imagine if you were in the wrong and lost your relationship with your father. Just forgive her.

You've made your point. Nobody thinks your dick is any smaller or that you're less of a man because your wofe whored around.

If I were you I'd get into shape and write some stuff.

>>18182494
His own words were "should I just pretend she doesn't exist". That is lying. At the very least that is lying to himself, forget other people. He's a coward and incapable of facing the consequences of his own decision to cut contact. Otherwise he would be over it and have no trouble talking about his daughter in neutral or even happy subjects and would not still be feeling bitterness and rage four years later.

>>18178650

Your judgment is not wrong. Your anger is justified.
There is nothing you should be bothered about. We are just living in society where women should be sheltered, forgiven everything and free to get away with the worst shit. You don't have to follow this.

You know why she kept it secret, has she explained?

Oh wow, this thread is still going. I see a lot of people are keen on conjuring up this bitter, old and lonely man image of me, which is nothing but hilarious. You seem to think that I harbor great hatred for my daughter. I don't. I made this thread in passing, because I was reminded of her at the time. I am not consumed, as much you might wish it otherwise, with some thoughts of guilt or anger. I was angry once, I'm not any longer.

I can't really understand the whole "She's your family" angle, though. If I was a poor father to my children, they'd be advised to cut off contact with me, and no one would badger them about renewing contact with me, would they? Yet here we are, where she was a poor daughter who not only kept silent on her mother's adultery, but also covered for it actively, and I'm getting told that I should have taken being shat on and just accepted it as part of being a parent, as this was the growing pains of a child.

>>18182502

> Watch Crazy Heart and Tender Mercies

Why? I'm not an alcoholic, I never hit my wife or daughter, nor have I ever been in either of those kinds of situations that the films are concerned with.

>>18182515

Not really. I'm just tired of people wanting some kind of feigned contrition from me, when I don't feel any need for any such thing. I don't have trouble talking about it. The problem is that other people take offense that I didn't take what she did lying down and accept her anyway.

>>18182517

No, she didn't answer. Just crying, sobbing, bawling. I sat with her for more than twelve hours that day, trying to get to the bottom of this. But there was no resolution, no answer. Sadly, real life doesn't work like a movie might, with satisfying conclusion, where everything is answered.

I didn't just disown my daughter on the very same day that I found out about it, or the next one. It was almost a year later that I decided on legally disowning her.

>>18181279
You will change your line of thinking if you have children.
>>18182350
Come back to me when you find any parent who claims the death of their parent is harder to get through than the death of their child.

I am pregnant with my first, this little human won't be someone I ever stop guiding through life at different stages. I am gonna need my dad's guidance once the baby is here. You never stop raising your kids and helping them, because there is always another new milestone in life they might need education or help with.
>>18182364
Makes you wonder why the daughter didn't want to say anything? All this lying,on his part too.

>>18182544
>interrogated my daughter for twelve straight hours.
Isn't that a tad extreme?

>>18182544
Welp, maybe she was afraid of you both divorcing, that's why she would not tell. You know, hard choice for a kid that wants to have family, unless she was an older one, mature enough to take it.

In any other case this was really evil thing to do, and she deserves to know what she did and take the consequences just as her mother.

>>18182556

>interrogated

You seem to be very quick on twisting up what I write, aren't you? I sat with her, I tried to talk with her, tried understand her, but all you want is to push some kind of fucked up narrative that supports your bias against me. Why is that? Do you have some family troubles of your own and I'm just the convenient way to vent?

I am more than sure that all of the people bashing OP ITT are actually females.

>>18182560

>You know, hard choice for a kid that wants to have family, unless she was an older one, mature enough to take it.

She was 25 at the time. She already had a life of her own, lived outside the family home. This isn't a underage girl we're talking about here. This isn't someone who was blackmailed emotionally or bullied into keeping her mother's unfaithfulness.

>In any other case this was really evil thing to do, and she deserves to know what she did and take the consequences just as her mother.

What?

>>18182562
Is this fucking thread still going? Holy shit.

How long are you going to let this hurt you? How much time needs to go by before you can have a relationship with your daughter again? Is it or is it not true that she reminds you of your wife's deception and you want nothing to do with her for that reason?

>>18182570
>In any other case this was really evil thing to do, and she deserves to know what she did and take the consequences just as her mother.

>What?

I'm speaking about keeping it a secret.

>>18182562
No, I just know that criminals become a slobbering mess and police accomplish nothing after questioning them about the same thing for 12+ hours. Let alone your own daughter.

Then you let this hate fester around your wound for a year, then cut her off. It wasn't cold hard logic, it was petty emotion and being hung up STILL over your loser cheating wife that motivated you to cut ties.

The only personal thing is that I'm glad my father is a good man who doesn't let his emotions get the better of him.

>>18182577

But I'm not hurt. Not any more. I'm past it.

The thread was never about me feeling hurt.

It was more on deciding how to handle people who might want to know more. One poster pointed it well out (>>18182413), but people just keep thinking they know better how I feel than I do.

If I really was hurting so much, if her absence was hurting her siblings or me, don't you think my kids would have said something? I raised them to be upfront and honest about this kind of shit. I suppose where I might have failed with her, I at least managed to do right by her sisters and brothers.

And no, you silly little cunt so eager on projecting your own take on the situation as the only valid one, this isn't about my daughter reminding me of anything than her own willing and conscious deceit. That's it.

You can't understand, can you? You never felt anything of the sort, let alone experienced it. To you, I'm supposed to be this mythical kind of figure, to take shit and welcome it, to forgive everything bad done to me, just so long as the person doing harm is my family, or in this a case a child of mine. That's insane, to me. It's masochistic.

>>18182579

Oh that. I could have possibly understood that. It hadn't gone on for too long, though admittedly even it happening just once was once too much, but her lying to me? Telling me her mother was there with her, when in fact she was with the other man? That was just plain horrific. Never in a million years could I have ever imagined she'd do something like that.

>>18182595

Yes, but this wasn't an interrogation.

Yet you phrased it intentionally that way because you think the worst of me.

And you? If I'm not mistaken, you're that pregnant poster, and I can't help but feel immensely sad for that child. You're going to make an awful parent, and your ineptitude will only make its life worse, not better, by teaching them they can do all sorts of harm to family, and that all will be forgiven, no matter what.

>>18178989
>elementary reading comprehension
The post

>>18182544
You're an immature philistine. You should have read more before you got old.

>>18182544
>If I was a poor father to my children, they'd be advised to cut off contact with me
Absolutely. If you had a record of doing terrible things to your family, people would understand why they cut contact with you.
>and no one would badger them about renewing contact with me, would they?
However this is false. People are very quick to judge the reasons why we cut contact with our parents, if it was justifiable. If your parent is abusive, of course, cut contact. If your parent does something shitty now and then, no it's not okay or justifiable to cut contact. And you'll hear often how people do judge them for that and won't consider them relationship material for that.

>Yet here we are, where she was a poor daughter
She was not, you've mentioned she was a very good daughter and you were close up until this. She did hide things from you and cover for your wife, that's a mistake. People make those, even parents can as you mentioned yourself. The problem people have with your decision is not that you cut her out of your life, but the reasoning behind why you chose to do it. It was one incident, and one incident is not indicative of a person, no matter what that incident may be.

I cut out my father from my life. He was physically and emotionally abusive throughout my childhood to me and to a lesser extent my mother. This culminated in threatening to kill me when I was eighteen. My aunt and her entire side of the family cut contact with my mother, grandmother, uncle, myself, and anyone who lives anywhere near her over a retarded passive-aggressive Facebook post that was basically "if you don't like what I say, delete me" after they said something she posted bothered them.

I understand your relationship was damaged, of course it would be, but a family bond is meant to be resilient. You're meant to repair and rebuild it even when it's difficult to. That is one of the big reasons people judge you, for throwing it away prematurely because it got hard.

>>18182626

I didn't throw away anything. She did that all on her own.

>>18182552
>Come back to me when you find any parent who claims the death of their parent is harder to get through than the death of their child.

You don't need to lecture me on loss, cunt

I buried my 26yo daughter after a car accident. She was driving to her shift at the hospital, hit some black ice, and that was it. At least it was quick or so they told me.

A little over a month later, breast cancer finally took my wife. She'd been in remission for a while, it came back, she was slowly dying, then our daughter died, and her grief hastened the end. It wasn't quick that time.

>I am pregnant with my first,

So you're not even a parent yet? Get back to me when you are.

>this little human won't be someone I ever stop guiding through life at different stages.

You'll guide up to a point and always be there with advice. If you want to raise an adult, however, you have to let them walk their own path eventually and own their decisions.

>I am gonna need my dad's guidance once the baby is here.

So you'll be a single mother? Even better. You've already fucked up your child's life before it's even arrived. The statistics don't lie and the "helicopter" parenting style you're bleating about should only make things worse.

>You never stop raising your kids

Get back to me after you've actually raised one, cunt.

>>18182556
>>interrogated my daughter for twelve straight hours

Interrogated is you word. She came to him wanting to "explain", he spent 12 hours with her, and she explained nothing. All she wanted was a pussy pass as her constant sobbing, crying, bawling, etc. proved.

>>18182607
Kill yourself, faggot.

>>18182607
>never forgive, never forget when it comes to your own flesh and blood.
>blaming kids when being torn apart by the parents' failing marriage, ignoring the likely emotional blackmail of the mom.

Yes I'm pregnant Anon, the one whose mother financially betrayed my dad and I hid it when she told me about it when she was dying slowly. She used emotional blackmail essentially to keep me quiet. I'll never stop feeling guilt about this when I interact withy father.

He was angry, very angry with me and the world. But he also saw the motivation behind what I did because he used logic rather than emotions, which funnily made him more empathetic towards why I did what I did.

The crime is not absolved nor completely forgotten. But our relationship was patched and our bond now stronger as father and daughter when we overcame it.

Because I'm willing to forgive my older child doesn't mean they won't be punished when they do wrong.

>>18182625

What are you even talking about? Have you actually run out of all possible arguments, so you resort to nonsense?

>>18182641

Why should I? My life is quite good. I have friends, I have family, both of which know me and love me, and vice versa. I'm going to be a grandfather soon as well, so really, I see no reason to end my life, simply because your own sensibilities are offended with how I live my life.

>>18182648

>Yes I'm pregnant Anon, the one whose mother financially betrayed my dad and I hid it when she told me about it when she was dying slowly.

Well that at least explains to some degree why you're so damaged yourself.

>>18182653
Then stop giving a shit what other people think. Fucks sake, obviously you care or you wouldn't get this fucking riled up.

>>18182658

I'm not riled up at all. Where are you getting this from?

>>18182648
>But he also saw the motivation behind what I did because he used logic rather than emotions

So the man had to use logic while you as a woman are excused for using emotions?

Your kid is going to be a fucking mess.

>>18182636
You chose to cut contact with your daughter over a one-off incident instead of a pattern of behavior. Instead you could have worked out that behavior, even if it took years and even if the relationship was strained and infrequent in the interim. That is exactly what people will perceive as throwing it away and that is exactly why people perceive you and your actions so negatively as compared to what happened with - for example - me and my father.

>>18182640
No, I'm not single. Is it so bizarre to modern families when both grandparents will be involved? That the whole family and community is involved? That I will ask my dad for advice when trying to get my new baby to nap, because according to other family member he was an expert at lulling babies to sleep?

My cousin will be my midwife (she is also a nurse practitioner) and my nursing coach if needed. If my husband and I want to escape for an evening dinner out, my mother in law will gleefully babysit for the night.

You stated in a previous post that forget anything about forgiveness because she is an adult.

>>18182666
Where did you get I was an emotional mess? I brought him the tax forms from that year to finally come out with the truth, especially once I started having to pay our bills.

I was saying unlike OP he didn't let his emotions stagnate for an entire year to motivate him to cut ties. Instead, he saw that I wasn't alone in my decision, my cunt of a mother was using deceptive shit to motivate me to lie to him.

>I'm dying and your dad is hurting so much, please don't hurt him anymore.
>You need to take care of your younger nonverbal autistic sister, don't worry about family finances.
>I cashed in your prepaid tuition because I banked on you getting a scholarship because you're so smart, Anon! I knew you could do it.

OP's ex sounds like the same generation like my mother who are queens at emotional manipulation of their children. I'll never do to my child what my mother did to me.

>>18182683

How does that theory of yours hold up in the fact that people who had already been intimately aware of the situation happened to side with me on this? Are you going to theorize now that we're some kind of group of narcissists or sociopaths? That my own children are brainwashed by me or coerced by me to not talk with their sister? Before you do go down that road, I never forbid my children to talk with their sister. I never told them to cut down on how much they talked with her or anything of the sort. All I did was tell them the truth, just like all my friends and family, and they all happened to understand and empathize with my decision. Which is something I suspect you are incapable of doing, because you perceive me as some kind of enemy and I have no idea why that is.

On one hand, I get it. This hits close to home to you. You had a terrible relationship with your father, you didn't care for him or love him or respect him at all. So now you're trying to make up for it with maximum effort. Kudos to you for that I suppose, but our cases are nowhere near similar.

>>18182683
>You chose to cut contact with your daughter over a one-off incident instead of a pattern of behavior.

It was a pattern of behavior. The affair lasted four years and the daughter lied for the mother throughout it all.

>>18182724

Uhh no, the affair lasted for three months. I just happened to divorce my ex-wife 4 years ago.

>>18182703
>Are you going to theorize now that we're some kind of group of narcissists or sociopaths?
No. I'd say they feel empathy and a sense of kinship with you. That because of how near they are to you, your betrayal is their betrayal. In your family's case your other children might even partially blame her for yours and your ex-wife's relationship failing especially if they were younger and not as capable of processing it rationally at the time.

Humans aren't perfect, we're not so great at distancing ourselves from a situation when our emotions and us are involved as opposed to when they aren't.

>Which is something I suspect you are incapable of doing, because you perceive me as some kind of enemy and I have no idea why that is.
Does the kind of stuff I'm writing here really sound like someone devoid of empathy? You're being ridiculously presumptuous and I get that this thread would make you defensive, but you're doing yourself a disservice by being so closed off to advice with a conflicting view.

>but our cases are nowhere near similar.
Which was the point of my post. I contrasted why people don't judge me for it and why they do you.

>>18182662
Is this sort of dialogue normal for you? You're like a cartoon character.

>>18182726

My bad. Should have checked your 1st post.

Still, it wasn't one act by your daughter but instead was a pattern of behavior.

>>18182653
You're a child bro.

You do you. I'm going to continue reading and writing so I don't stagnate as a person and have my wife cheat on me.

Lots of replies here, lots of opinions and theorycrafting behind OP's story, some better than others. My opinion on this matter has already been expressed by a previous post, so I'll spare you that. Instead, I'll answer your question, "Why should I forgive her?"
Simply put, unless you experience a traumatic life changing event real soon, you will never forgive your daughter. I don't think you have the capacity to forgive your daughter or ex wife at all really, even if there's some dramatic change to your situation. I believe your culture has a lot to do with this, as I guess you are probably an American right-leaning individual with an appreciation for the manly country life, or something similar. Not sure how conservative or how much of a red neck you are, but that's what you sound like. I know plenty of people like this, and I hate to pigeonhole all of you, but your family ties are so strong, that once broken, they are impossible to repair in any way. This seems to be a recurring trope among your kind, but I digress.
You won't forgive her. (unless you have an epiphany about the good times you had with your former family, if any, or if one or more of you gets cancer or gravely wounded in some way and you manage to grow a heart for each other again. But I doubt it.) Close this thread and go blow off steam or something, be happy you've cut the lines you have because you can't fix them now. Do something you enjoy instead of wallowing in anger.

>>18179824
I hope your mom died in agony you pathetic fool.

>>18182350
>you need to start treating them as an adult instead of a child

That's fine. No one thinks OP shouldn't be upset with her. No one thinks their relationship shouldn't be strained or damaged. Most people view OP's reactions as being overly spiteful and extreme. That has nothing to do with treating her like an adult.

>he OP's daughter made her choices. She can now own the consequences.

But he's now tired of dealing with the consequences of his actions and is looking for a way to not have to deal with them anymore.

>She had NO empathy or sympathy for him.
>She didn't care about how her own father felt.
>She didn't care if the whole situation caused him any harm.
>She didn't care that her choices would mean her relationships with her would be strained.

That's not necessarily true. If she's truly sorry for what she did, sorry she hurt her father and family, and understands why she probably made the wrong choice, and regrets her actions, that would denote caring and empathy.

It's possible to care for someone and still screw up and hurt them. It happens pretty regularly. It's possible to have empathy for someone you've hurt. OP has outright stated he lacks those emotions for his daughter. Those are his words, not mine.

>She didn't choose a "side".
Again, literally OP's words, not mine. That's how he views the situation, not me.

Listen, he's welcome to do what he wants. He's a grown man, and obviously isn't going to be convinced he's not right. That's his choice. But if he wants to take the moral high ground and insist that people face the consequences of his actions, he should at least have the moral fortitude to stand by his choice and deal with his own consequences.

>>18184009
All hail Anon, Lord of the Edge!

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>>18178650
For your own daughter find it in your heart to forgive her. Never forget. This does not mean that you have to like her, leave inheritance for her, or even talk to her, but don't hate your own daughter. She isn't responsible for your wifes action. Don't hold her accountable for it.
Now as to what your interaction with your daughter will be, depends. Did she pick your wifes side. As in does she still interact and play happy family with her mother. If yes then let it be. Let by gones be by gones. Remember the happy times with your daughter but understand that they are over.
When you are talking to people about your daughter you don't need to say
>I HATE THAT WHORE OF A DAUGHTER
Just say you daughter sided and enabled your wifes affair and that it strained the relationship beyond repair. Anyone who hears that will understand and not feel the need to pry further.

>>18178650
Not gonna lie though. You are gonna regret it more than she does. You can sum up your accomplishments in your life with your children. Her failures are your failures. Her accomplishments are your accomplishments. If another 40 years when the pain of being betrayed has subsided and you have found happiness elsewhere, you will think of her. Fuck your wife, your daughter and her children. You will want to see them. And be part of the generation you helped create.

To all the cunts, disagreeing with OP's decision: Fuck you and I hope you die. He didn't ask for judgement.

To OP: If people still broach the subject of family, then just do as you always did and be frank. What's the point of sympathizing with folks who are empathetically retarded and don't bother to understand your grief at all?

I can imagine when becoming older you are more prone to lower your standards, in order to be more tolerant of the one's who are already set in their ways in their age. I think you don't need to do that, especially if the rest of your children support your decision. The only reason people somewhat sympathize with your daughter (they never met) is because they lack spine, something you have and are therefore incompatible with them.

I cut off contact with both of my elder (and only) sisters because they always treated me horribly since I can remember, and as soon as I move out I'll cut off contact with my parents too, since they always and still treat me like cattle, or like a pet.

>>18184203
He has a bunch of other kids. I don't think he's going to care, even with your guilt tripping.

There is 1) forgiveness, there is 2) acknowledgement without forgiveness, and then there is 3) cutting someone out of your life.
OP chose 3. Not forgiving your daughter doesn't mean you need to pretend she is dead.

e.g. You could accept a call from her on Christmas and ask about her life without forgiving her. You don't have to become friendly with her or act like everything is fine.

>>18178650
As another have said, imagine your daughter's position at that time. Everything she could possibly did would result in BAD things, and it's scary no matter what age.

But again, I don't see anything wrong with your actions. Your daughter, even if she had no malicious intent in hiding the affair should learn that her choice has done damages.
Nobody more fitting to teach her about that than you. As cruel as others' said your actions might be, it'll be something that necessary for her growth and life lessons.

I say forgive her, for she's a weak coward that through her inactions made things worse, but don't go easy on her. Teach her that shit will always has consequences.
Of course if anyone else asks, just go silent and don't tell anyone your story. If you must, tell, but don't explain or defend your action. Just let it be.

You've got your beliefs, don't compromise that, or else it'd truly make you a bad example for your children.

My father stabbed me in the back years ago, and I stopped talking to him. Zero fucks given. One day there was a terrorist attack in his town, and as soon as I heard about it I was scared. What if he was one of those who died? What if he was gone forever, and I would never get to speak to him again? That convinced me to pick up contact with him again. The memory if getting betrayed has never left me, but in the end I feel I did the right thing by talking to him again. How would you feel if your daughter got run over by a truck or blown up by a Mohammed? If you truly think that you wouldn't care then I can't help you.

>>18185021
Nah doesnt matter how many, you'll always care. Its your legacy. I don't really want to guilt trip, but a child is kinda the meaning of life. At least the biggest most objective one.
>>18185012
Siblings are not the same thing as a child. Your siblings are not your responsibility, you child is the product of your work.

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>>18186198
>Siblings are not the same thing as a child. Your siblings are not your responsibility, you child is the product of your work.
What a shitty argument. Everyone can be the product of your work if you manipulate them accordingly. His daughter backstabbed him when she was in her late 20s. By your logic she shouldn't be taken accountable because she's still a retarded infant, guilt-free of her own decisions. Parents have a lot of influence, and based on OP's post he seems to be a frank man with spine, but there's also the mother to consider, who also had a fair share of raising her backstabbing daughter. Guess who's fault it is by your logic then?

The amount of spineless, self-castrated and rationalization-filled enablers astonish me.

>>18186366
No, your child that you raised from birth is not just someone you manipulated. Im not saying she isnt guilty because she definitely is. Im saying her short comings are also your own. He raised someone who would stab him in the back. As a parent I think he should try to set her on the right path instead of just cutting her off.

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>>18186380
It should be illegal for you to give advice. Your misguided fallacies make me puke. Good job.

>>18186403
not an argument

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>>18186408
>not an argument
>using Stefbot catchphrase
I see where you're coming from.

>>18186416
you can only use so many logical fallacies. Still not an argument.

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>>18186467
>you can only use so many logical fallacies.
Oh my, the lad here doesn't even know what a fallacy is. Back to FDR with you.

>>18185012
> and as soon as I move out I'll cut off contact with my parents too, since they always and still treat me like cattle, or like a pet.

And I'm sure once you do that, everyone will be very sorry for how they treated you for the first 35 years of your life.

It's sad that your parents don't have more sympathy for you and your condition.