What manly stuff can men even do anymore?

What are you talking about

>>18109549

Retarded shit

>>18109549
He has a point, but his tone makes me think he is like 18 and got dumped for the first time or something similar.

>white people

>>18109546
You're a faggot.

If you have to ask, maybe weenie hut Jr. is more your speed.

>>18109556

>He has a point

No he doesn't

>>18109556
If you know what he's talking about, can you explain? I actually have no idea what he's talking about.

>>18109546
Maybe the road to becoming a real man has a bump in it called "realizing feminism isn't an attack on my masculinity or even about men"

>>18109568

Stop samefagging, OP. No one cares.

>>18109568
I think he is just feeling overwhelmed and wants something to take that feeling away. This is pure conjecture btw

>>18109572
Please learn to read. Why would OP ask what OP is talking about?

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>>18109549
>>18109552
>>18109556
>>18109559
>>18109561
>>18109562
>>18109566
>>18109568
>>18109571
>>18109572
>>18109574
OP here

I'm 25 and a web developer. I started going to the gym and it opened my eyes. The gym brings masculinity out of you. When you're lying on the bench, holding 60 kgs of metal above your head and chest, you don't have a choice of whether to be a feeble, "sensitive", metrosexual man - you have to use all of your strength to support that weight and pump it up and down.

Yes, maybe I've spent too much time on /fit/ and /pol/, but the problem with the truth is that it's addictive. All I wanted was to find out what was true about life, and what masculinity actually was. Well I found out what it is. It's having high testosterone levels. It's being dominant. You can tell yourself it's not these things all that you like, but dominant masculine men will still exist, no matter how much you want to deny it. And what will you do when those masculine dominant men challenge you? Will you be a fag? What about when one of those masculine men starts chatting up your wife? What will you do then?

It is true that employment is a way to become masculine in a way - you get money, and money = power, and women are attracted to a man who has a stable job and can provide, this is true. But with today's declined wages, and the fact that twenty-something women EARN MORE than twenty-something men these days*, what the fuck do men have left? Seriously, what the fuck do we have left? Shitposting on a Javanese shadow puppet internet forum? Playing fucking video games? These things are not fucking substantial

As I say, I want my goddamn big family, how do I even get that these days?

I have considered the military; I think that's the only manly job left.

*Source (and see pic): https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds

>>18109546

having lots of kids is actually a more lower income family thing.

>>18109591
You chose to be a web developer and you're complaining about masculinity?

>>18109591

>i work out
>ITS SO MANLY

lol.

>I want my goddamn big family
>how do i even get that these days

by finding a woman who wants lots of kids. there's a chick on /adv/ who wont stop spamming about how she wants like 20 kids.

go fidn your self a baby factory and have at it.

having a large amount of children is more common in lower income families than large income families.

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>>18109591
Oh and by the way, testosterone is BIOLOGICALLY what masculinity is linked to. So, it is BIOLOGICALLY TRUE that high testosterone = masculinity.

Testosterone causes every physiological and psychological feature that defines a man. Facial hair growth. Logical thinking. Masculine shaped body (broad shoulders, narrow waist). Strong jawline.

This is why females who take testosterone supplements (to try and become men) develop these features - see pic related. This is a biological female who has developed a masculine body, facial hair, increased muscle development, due to testosterone.

>>18109593
Which is completely fucked up. Middle-class cunts have completely deprived themselves of their basic instincts. They are in denial.

>>18109596
What should I choose then? As I said I've looked at the military

I've worked more physical jobs before. And I fucking hate web dev. I went to uni because i felt my parents wanted me to. And I didn't even study computer science, I studied some humanities bullshit.

But yeah, web dev is fucking shit, so I'd like to do something else really

>>18109546
Part of being a man is being adaptable, flexible. The world changes, you change to fit it. The masculine model from the 50s and Nazi era are over for now. A new model arose, now you can adapt and win or flounder drowning in the past.

I will give you a few hints:
>We live in an for-individual world now, not for-society. The "good husband and father" of the past is now "successful, unique man"
>Relationships of the past were one man and one woman in loyalty, relationships of the present are Chads and betas. R and K.
>What is manly is anything that a woman CAN'T do. (Not what they wont do. Plumber=won't; CEO=can't). Think about this with a very creative and open mind, it is not as hard as it sounds.
>There is a Male and Female spirit. It lives in everyone, with one being dominant. "The world is run by women" means the world is run by the female spirit. Luckily for you, women are incredibly easy to dominate. Learn female nature, take the red pill, learn MGTOW stuff, and then start recognizing the female spirit that pervades both women and men in the western world and dominate them.
>The reason I'm speaking to you in hints, instead of direct advice, is the same reason you teach a man to fish. Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

>>18109613

>join military
>get statioend overseas
>marry a baby maker
>see prostitots on the side

you're good to go

>>18109613
>What should I choose then? As I said I've looked at the military
You seriously can't think of anything else?

>Farming or agriculture
>Logger
>Carpentry or building
>Plumbing, electrician or another similar trade
>Mechanic
>Truck driver

Are you just looking for a reason to complain or something?

>>18109599
>i work out
>ITS SO MANLY
That's not what I said

>by finding a woman who wants lots of kids. there's a chick on /adv/ who wont stop spamming about how she wants like 20 kids.
Interesting, I should find that chick

>having a large amount of children is more common in lower income families than large income families.
Which, as I said here - >>18109613 - is completely fucked up

Yes of course I understand r/K selection, choosing to have fewer kids but invest more in them, but that doesn't change the fact that people of ANY social class will always have MORE children if they have more money and amenities to provide for them.

You also say it as if that means I shouldn't want lots of kids? Which is completely absurd. In the r/K model, lower-income people go for an "r" strategy - quantity of children over quality. And middle-class people go for a "K" strategy - quality over quantity. They still HAVE children though. It used to be at least 2, maybe 3 or 4. These days people are hardly having kids AT ALL. Which is completely fucked up. They might as well commit suicide; same difference, their genes will perish into the Earth with no survivors either way.

>>18109615
>What is manly is anything that a woman CAN'T do. (Not what they wont do. Plumber=won't; CEO=can't). Think about this with a very creative and open mind, it is not as hard as it sounds.
You're implying that plumbers aren't manly, which I would heavily disagree with. Many plumbers make a very decent living indeed. If you run your own plumbing business then you're pretty sorted.

>There is a Male and Female spirit. It lives in everyone, with one being dominant. "The world is run by women" means the world is run by the female spirit. Luckily for you, women are incredibly easy to dominate. Learn female nature, take the red pill, learn MGTOW stuff, and then start recognizing the female spirit that pervades both women and men in the western world and dominate them.
So I guess you're saying "the game is what it is, time to play it". Which I suppose makes sense. But I fucking hate this game. It's a bullshit game. It's a game that makes me want to put a bullet into my skull.

But yes I think I do get your point. Danke.

>>18109591
>>18109546
Read about Nietzsche's ideas on the Übermensch, I think it's exactly what you are looking for.

>>18109616
That's a plan

>>18109621
True, those are good ideas, do you do anything like that?

>>18109625
Stop talking about science you don't understand. r/K selection is about selection of life history traits not solely "I want to have 10 kids".

>Which is completely absurd. In the r/K model, lower-income people go for an "r" strategy - quantity of children over quality. And middle-class people go for a "K" strategy - quality over quantity

No, we all go for K because nobody has 500 children. You can have your philosophy all you want, don't try to wrongly justify it with "science".

Working out increases testosterone about as much as watching porn does within the first 15 minutes after, where you're gonna see the biggest increase.

You should be who you want to be. If older gender roles seem cool to you, do that. Just try to not be a shitty person about whatever path you take in life.

>>18109637
Wasn't Nietzsche a depressed, syphilitic madman?

Also, I think Richard Spencer is heavily influenced by Nietzsche. I don't know if I want to go down that road to be honest.

>>18109645
>I disagree with your analysis so I'm going to say you don't understand it
Steady on there Einstein

>No, we all go for K because nobody has 500 children.
There is no distinct demarcating line of where the boundary for K strategies lies. Whether it's 10 or 100 or 1,000 children. So basically stop making assertions that you cannot validate. And you cannot validate that assertion. You fucking moron.

An "r" strategy is simply one that prioritises the RATE of reproduction over the investment in each individual child. A "K" strategy is one that prioritises having fewer children but investing heavily in them. There's nothing fucking wrong with saying lower-income people are following an "r" strategy and higher-income people are following a "K" strategy. That's exactly what they're doing you fucking moronic cuntfuck

>>18109654
You're oversimplifying it again and didn't listen. It's about a trade off in investment. The graph literally has to do with carrying capacity. It's whether or not a species selects for rapid or slow population growth. An r-selected species lives fast, small and has a fucton of babies whereas a k-selected species like most mammals is gonna have the inverse. We live for a long time and only have a few offspring. Generally another trade off here is size, but whatever. The point is that you're oversimplifying it and it's not someone saying "oh yeah i'm gonna have all the babies" it's about a whole species and the life history trade off that most species have to fall under.

Just because you want more kids than on average doesn't suddenly make you not K-selected or change millions of years of evolution before you.

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>>18109546
I think you have some misconceived notion, that the 1950s or (insert time) was a "golden age" where everything was as it should be, in reality the world has always been changing, part of being a successful person, is learning to adapt in the face of great change and thrive in it. The only advice I can give you is that if you complain about how the world is "unfair" then you'll only end up making yourself a recluse and not be able to function in society.

>>18109546
Get out of the city. Move to a rural setting and get a blue collar job. Go hunting, chop wood, drive a pick up. Become country basically.
It's one of the last "manly" archetypes you speak of that still exists.

Or become pic related. That's arguably one of the manliest life stiles around.

Climb mountains.

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>>18109724
this is the pic related, sorry

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>>18109654
> where the boundary for K strategies lies. Whether it's 10 or 100 or 1,000 children.

>>18109613
OP how did you become a web developer? Did you just naturally know enough code?

>>Web Developer who just recently started going to the gym

>>Simplistic worldview and understanding of human relations

Gee, who could've seen that one coming?

Maybe make yourself more desirable to another type of woman than the clubbing addicts, you stupid knucklehead.

>>18109591
You just like chemicals in your brain

>>18109826
/thread
well said, sir

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>>18109763
Finn thread?

OP what you describe here reeks to me of a false authority. As in you wish to take actions which will validate you based upon your understandings of masculinity, I guess because you wish to embrace a strong masculine identity because maybe you don't fully understand your own identity and you are pissed that a path isn't laid down like you believe it used to be. Masculinity has been used to shame men into doing things, sell men things, basically manipulate us. People have always struggled with identity and finding a path in life, but for me all actions should be born of authentic choices made with free will. This means disregarding notions such as masculinity. You should seek to acquire freedom if you do not already have it and use it to take choices born of your own authentic drives and desires to better understand your own identity in order to eventually gain control over it and take steps to actualise as the best version of yourself you desire to be. If you are honest with yourself during this process you'll be able to have complete conviction in yourself and your actions. To me, nothing is better than this. Basic existentialism yo.

>>18109546
Stroke your dick against a bro's one. It's something only dudes can do

>>18109649
Not gonna straightforwardly endorse him but pretty much every intellectual since Nietzsche has been influenced by him, both left wing and right wing, not just people like richard spencer

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>>18109992
>Masculinity has been used to shame men into doing things, sell men things, basically manipulate us.
As opposed to today where masculinity itself is shamed, where men are expected to bend over for women and get fucked up the arse and thank them for doing so.

>>18110055
In the world I see masculine values haven't been shit upon. What I recall from being a teenager/young adult was struggling to find a place in the world where I felt like my role and ability matched my ego.

I wanted to be lots of things, but I lacked the experience and skill and as a result I did what plenty of young guys do which is talk shit, blame society, play down the importance of those who did what I wanted to do, try to look the part and sell myself as much as possible.

It took me a while to learn that plenty of people can point out what is wrong. Plenty of people can suggest a solution while pointing out what is wrong, but one of the most masculine things you can do is simply get on with sorting it out without trying to milk social capital from the obvious.

All around me are blue collar guys raising children and existing in traditional male dominated ways. They fix their own shit and they don't worry about the intellectual detail of what constitutes life or if they do, they do it quietly and keep it to themselves. I can't say that society shits on them.

I studied an arts degree, briefly had my own business, ended up a middle manager for a chain of businesses which I hated and now work a practical hands on role that most would consider a pretty masculine. I cut and split my own firewood, I fix my own car and house and I can be relied upon to get on with fixing shit that needs fixing. If anything it is the younger guys I work with who persist in emasculating themselves by shit talking those who can do the things they are jealous of, but then I've been there and I see the cycle, they'll eventually learn through watching others and being around people who are capable and then eventually they'll be dealing with the bullshit I deal with.

Don't whine about how society is holding you back just because you feel you haven't got a stake in it yet. The most masculine thing you can do is simply get on with carving out your own stake in it.

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>>18109591

>complains about not being able to be prototypical masculine man

>slings code for a living

>Masculinization only dawned upon him in the gym with a measly 60kg

God save me from this world

>>18109549
He is worried people might find out he's gay.

>>18109546

I'm a little older than the general audience here I would say (30) - but modern masculinity is still very much alive.

Taking care of your body - grooming - fashion - women...these are all things that can be overtly masculine.

My issue with giving advice on this is that I'm not sure how old OP is and that can dramatically change the type of advice.

But for someone my age - having a stable job - being in shape - taking care of your self externally are all the difference in the world between someone perceived as masculine and not.

Also some stubble helps or a beard - but it's just another external thing.

There's also things like competency in daily life - being able to change a tire, or fix a door and having the initiative to get up and do it are more modern masculine things.

Women and other men appreciate someone that takes care of shit - at work and at home.

So maybe the classic lumberjack like in the picture isn't a thing for most of us.

But taking care of yourself - and the people you love - and having a positive impact on the world are all modern masculine.

>>18110055
Two sides of the same coin.
>>18109992
hit the nail on the head. "Masculinity" is just boys' club for guys who have identity/self esteem issues that they refuse to correct and would rather get defensive about.

OP this thread is single handledly gayer than 90% of the entire /lgbt/ catalog. Just admit your bear fetish.

>>18109992

Also this. Solid advice.

Anons already have your number, OP so I'll just re-iterate.

You're insecure. A real manly man doesn't worry about this shit. I mean look at you whining about being "cucked" when you're pathetic anyway. You're not a fucking victim of society or oppressed just because there are some aspects of male behavior some people find undesirable. That's just life. "Masculinity" means different things to different people. It has good and bad qualities like anything else. Live the way you want to and try to be a good person and I don't see why you even have to waste a single thought on something like this.

>all these jews recoiling at the idea of traditional gender roles

get in the oven, kike

>>18109654
They're welfare babies. They're not "selecting" for r like they're some family that lives outside of civilization along the Amazon. They're "selecting" welfare checks.

>>18109546
Guns.

>>18109546
Nothing changed desu, you just have to be attractive to do it now.

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1. Grow a beard
2. Stop caring what women think, speak your mind and don't be afraid to offend them
3. Fuck prostitutes
4. Stop friending women and only date women
5. Start smoking
6. Turn down dates occasionally and rearrange and tell them you're busy
7. Be sexist occasionally

It's just a lifestyle you slowly get used to. You need to give off a sense of masculinity by being an obnoxious dick. The reason why western society is so cucked is because we're in tow to feminine societal standards now. We all want to be a "friend" to women and some happy nice guy, all in the confused standards of women. In reality, women respect you and want you more when you stop caring about everything they say and want, because even they know it's unobtainable and batshit insane

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>>18109591
>When you're holding 60 kgs over your head and chest

Wow OP you're soooo masculine

You sound like a fag

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>>18109826
>>18109952
>Can't argue so calls opposing arguments "simplistic"

Yup that's called ad hominem

I guess you're too stupid to formulate arguments huh? Figures.

>>18109817
I think you're attempting to make an argument to say that males and females can be different, that we adapt to our environment, that we can learn different skills.

Which I don't deny. But the thing is that the most masculine men are the ones that women are attracted to the most. So there's that.

>>18109862
We all do, but that doesn't really answer the question.

>>18109992
>As in you wish to take actions which will validate you based upon your understandings of masculinity, I guess because you wish to embrace a strong masculine identity because maybe you don't fully understand your own identity and you are pissed that a path isn't laid down like you believe it used to be. Masculinity has been used to shame men into doing things, sell men things, basically manipulate us. People have always struggled with identity and finding a path in life, but for me all actions should be born of authentic choices made with free will. This means disregarding notions such as masculinity. You should seek to acquire freedom if you do not already have it and use it to take choices born of your own authentic drives and desires to better understand your own identity in order to eventually gain control over it and take steps to actualise as the best version of yourself you desire to be.
I agree with a lot of this I suppose. Good post to be honest.

I mean, I would argue that we are all chasing some idea of masculinity - OF COURSE we are; the reason being that most of us want to attract women, and we want to have kids, and we want to be manly so that these women will be attracted to us. And also so we can assert ourselves in the world, and not get trampled on by others.

But also I guess there's an argument that those who win the game of life are just those who win; no matter how they do it. So maybe one should just use whatever assets one has to do that.

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>>18110863

Dear lord I was in a fit when I read that part, glad I'm not alone.

60kgs! OP, to put this in perspective here is a man getting off the ground while suspending your max bench over his head

>>18110328
OP here, I see what you're saying

Of course back in the day if a bunch of men got together and didn't like the way the world was run then they'd go out and take things for themselves by force

Which actually can still be done, if you're willing to do the time in jail

>>18110451
>modern masculine
Synonym for a fag

>>18110465
>"Masculinity" means different things to different people
In modern society it might do, but actually masculinity is something that you can measure objectively; masculine traits are those that result from high testosterone levels.

All the things in our culture that we call "masculine" - strength, emotional resilience, independence, whatever - these are all the things that result from high testosterone levels.

A masculine appearance is one that results from high testosterone levels. E.g. if you have LOW testosterone levels then you'll have saggy man boobs. But HIGH testosterone creates broad shoulders, strong jaw, etc.

So it's actually something that is objectively measurable. As I say, I agree with you that masculinity can be expressed in different ways in modern society, but that doesn't mean it's completely arbitrary. It isn't. It's actually rooted in biology.

>>18110441
>>18110863
>>18111284
Didn't say max bench, it was an example to illustrate a point, but I guess you're too stupid to understand the point I was making

Or I guess you're so desperate to try and dickwave on an anonymous Chinese cartoon internet forum, which is even worse

Nothing masculine at all about OP's display of crippling insecurity.

>>18111292

No you're misreading us all. What it boils down to is you're lame, realized you're lame, and will always be lame.

Good luck trying to become a man, that time has clearly long past. Cheers

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>>18111307
Not an argument

>>18111308
As I say, pathetic dickwaving

Shame that you can't engage in actual arguments.

>>18111317

Your ship has sailed, my friend. It's too late for you.

I sail boats, weld beer tanks, help friends build decks in their summer, enjoy scotch and fine tobacco in the evening, love to read classic literature, grill meat, coach kids, sport a full beard, and strive to be a good son and older sibling. There is nothing to stop you from being a man in this world.

>>18109591
Masculinity is way much more than testosterone levels and dominance. Being always dominant isn't manly, knowing what position you have to play and being able to play them including dominant but also other positions such as being the student etc.. is what's needed.

Your understanding of masculinity is extremely simplistic and immature.

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>>18109546

You KNOW what the most manly occupation is.
Deep down you do.

>>18111478
I bet you wear flannel too...

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>>18109546
But isn't being a lumberjack kind of gay? Also what if you are all of the stuff listed above, but gay, does that cancel out the manliness?

>>18111542
I do have one shirt

>>18109591
>The gym brings masculinity out of you.

Only if going to the gym is your only source of physical activity.

>>18109615
>There is a Male and Female spirit. It lives in everyone, with one being dominant.

Okay Deepok Chopra. This entire post is cringe as fuck.