Who is wrong?

Your girlfriend was being rude and ignorant and backing this girl into a corner. I don't know what you expected to happen, but your girlfriend sounds like such a bigot. I'm actually picturing her as white trash or a redneck

>>18107370

she was respectful enough to not bring up any opinion she had.

you guys are basically being thought police right now, mad at her for what she might be thinking and not how she acts.

she acts nice, and doesn't insult you or talk about killing you. but you guys kept picking at her about it and even though she still didn't confirm or deny anything you guys got upset.

basically you are upset because someone thinks differently than you despite acting completely normal and fine about it.

>>18107370
Being horrendously irrational.

I understand how someone can be uncomfterble around another on account of their opinions, but you didn't even affirm what opinions she had. You both just assumed from the outright that she was homophobic, and didn't even try to clarify. If she was dodging the question, that's the signal that she doesn't want to talk about it, probably because she doesn't want to upset you.

The two of you should be executed for being liberal degenerates and the muslim should be removed from the gene pool for being a shitskin.Your gf started it tho.

What's the bet that OP doesn't respond?

>>18107377
I am fine with someone thinking differently from me, if the conversation ended just with me suspecting she is homophobic I probably still wouldn't have wanted to associate with her but I could stand to be around her and it wouldn't have turned into this huge fight. But if a person thinks my lifestyle is worth the death penalty I think that's a more than reasonable place to draw the line.
>>18107382
It's true she didn't confirm it but it seems like an easy thing to deny if you don't agree with it.

I'm going to have to agree that your g/f was looking for a problem where there was none. Regardless of this girls opinions on gays or otherwise your g/f decided to make it an issue. It would be like someone coming up to you and saying, "you're a dike, do you hate men?" Whether you hate men or not that isn't a question that people in polite company walk up and throw in your face. Poor girl was probably caught off guard, and even if she did have a problem with gay people, assaulting her verbally isn't going to make the issue better. You both are shitty and could have had any number of other conversations that may have made her feel more at ease with gay people. You don't demand respect from people you earn it. If anything you just solidified any feelings she might have had against gay people.

>>18107413
Your girlfriend was an asshole. End of story. Defending her is not going to get you anywhere.

>>18107370
Muslims do not like gays. Period. It is against thier religion and punishable by death. But this is USA & muslims have to deal with it. Period.

>>18107418
To clarify I don't think what my gf did was right and I still think it was rude. But now this is out there, you know? I think if this girl thinks their daughter should be killed my parents shouldn't be taking her side. I told my brother if it's a misunderstanding then she has my number and all she has to do is call me but she hasn't reached out at all.

>>18107441
But you don't know that this girl thinks you should be killed. Jesus Christ, you're just as bad as your girlfriend.

>I told my brother if it's a misunderstanding then she has my number and all she has to do is call me but she hasn't reached out at all.
Why should she? Your girlfriend was the one who just started questioning her out of the blue. She doesn't owe you or your girlfriend anything. If anything, you two should be the ones reaching out to apologise for how horribly you treated her.

If your girlfriend had kept her mouth shut, none of this would have happened.

f

>>18107441
OMG, so the girl is supposed to call and apologize for her "alleged beliefs" to you and your girlfriend GTFO you owe her an apology if anything you started this not her.

Your girl friend started all this shit. You are racist because you fear that she wants you both executed. Your fucking stupid ass girl friend put those words in her mouth.

>>18107370
What was your gf trying to accomplish for deliberately provoking your brother's gf?

>>18107445
>But you don't know that this girl thinks you should be killed.
Like I said, it should be an easy thing to deny. If somebody asked me if I thought such and such group deserved the death penalty just for existing I would be able to answer with a quick and emphatic no. The whole thing was just so sketchy. I feel like there's bigger problems here than just my gf being a bitch, that my family isn't seeing.

>>18107370
I don't think you're being irrantional. I think the Muslim gf has it out for you since our love da pussy. Don't sweat it though. People like this will come & go.

>>18107458
No, it was definitely just your girlfriend being a bitch. And in relation to her not reaching out to you, let me ask you a question: if someone toxic voluntarily removed themselves from your life, would you go chasing after them? Didn't think so.

You asked us whether you and your girlfriend were being irrational. The answers ITT almost unanimously say you were. Arguing about it isn't going to change anything

yeah OP you and your girlfriend are both being catty and rude as fuck.

This is the real reason people don't want their kids to be homosexuals. You and your girlfriends should be stoned to death for being an annoyance to other people

>>18107464
>No, it was definitely just your girlfriend being a bitch.
Wouldn't you deny it if someone asked you if you thought someone should be executed for what they believed in? This is a subject that is more serious than feelings being hurt, this is about people's lives and basic human freedoms.

Again I am not asking if it was okay for my gf to act that way, I know it wasn't. I am saying I was and still am disturbed by my brother's gf's reaction to the posed question and I think that is within my right as a logical human being. I don't think it makes sense for me to want to associate with someone who couldn't tell me to my face that she doesn't want me dead. To me this is common sense but my parents just see how rude my gf was as if it completely cancels out everything that happened afterward.

>>18107495
>asked you
But she didn't just ask her. She cornered her and began the interrogation

>>18107495
>THOUGHT CRIMES
i'm black, there's a kkk group in my town. if i walked up to their doors right now and started screaming and yelling, it'd be my ass that the police drags away because i was the one who disturbed the peace.

we live in a society, you instigated this argument, it's your fault for starting shit and ruining dinner. That's what you should be apologizing for, don't twist this as if everyone's expecting you to convert to islam, they're just expecting you to act civil and not start shit. It's not difficult to do.

>>18107497
It wasn't really like that, it was kind of just brought up casually in conversation, which honestly was probably even more cringe.

But anyway I have to go to bed soon so let me ask this: If I get my gf to apologize do you think I could have a reasonable conversation about this with my family or even the girl? Or if she won't talk to me could I at least get my family to listen to my concerns?

>>18107370
>muslims vs. lesbians
Who the fuck do I support? It's so tough.

>>18107504
>It wasn't really like that, it was kind of just brought up casually in conversation, which honestly was probably even more cringe.
Yeah, and then she kept asking more and more questions. That's cornering and interrogating.

>If I get my gf to apologize do you think I could have a reasonable conversation about this with my family or even the girl? Or if she won't talk to me could I at least get my family to listen to my concerns?
No, I don't. First of all, your girlfriend is the sort to basically bully someone she's never met before. Good luck getting her to SINCERELY apologise. And secondly, both of you have shown your family your true colours. I wouldn't blame your family for not feeling comfortable around you anymore.

>>18107514
Then what can I do? If it's a misunderstanding I want to know. I really hate this, I hate feeling like it's us against them, I want to be with my family again but at the same time I'm scared and don't understand why I'm the only one worried about this.

Have you considered that they secretely resent your homosexuality and just want a normal heterosexual daughter who will raise a normal family with a normal husband? That might be why they find it hard to disagree with the muslim girl.

>>18107537
Try getting rid of the girlfriend first. They're never going to accept her after this, and it has nothing to do with the fact that she's a lesbian. It's her or your family.

>>18107553
I can't get rid of her, I love her, I know I've painted a bad picture of her in this thread but she's special to me.

What I really want is to be able to tell my parents and brother how I feel. Is there any way I can do that? They just won't listen to me. I tried telling them I'm sorry for what my gf did but they don't care, they don't want to hear anything I have to say. I was in tears on the phone but they wouldn't listen. I didn't want to hear that conversation and I wish I never did.

>>18107570
You made your bed and now you have to lie in it. I don't even believe you were truly sincere about what you said to your family because from what you've said ITT, you don't seem to understand how you and your girlfriend fucked up. And like I said, you need to pick her or your family.

No matter what you do, I hope you learn from this, both to be a better judge of character (I'm talking about your girlfriend, not your brother's girlfriend, just so we're clear), and also not to act so impulsively.

>>18107370
No, muslims are a total shit evil culture. You guys that try to side on with them through liberal propoganda in the media are retarded because they do on fact want you dead, it's just a lot of them won't do it themselves.

It sounds like you are realizing this though.

>>18107504

Nothing is going to happen unless your gf sincerely apologize to the other girl. Have a talk with you, your brother, and your gfs. Don't do that at a family dinner or other public situation. And not just "sorry for last night", but elaborating on what she did was wrong and how she wants to make it right in the future.

Assuming the muslim girl accepts the apology and agrees to move on, you can then tell your family that your gf apologized, they sorted it out, and things are now good between the two of them.

>>18107570
Look, here is the deal. I am a Christian, practicing and hopefully, a believer. In my book what you and your girlfriend chose to do is a sin (abomination, as said in the Bible). What punishment, if any, you will get for it is between you and God, I have my hands full trying to atone for my own sins to look at yours. If this muslim girl is any decent kind of a person (and from what I can glean from your description, she seems like it, because she refused to participate in the whole thing, a person like your gf would have jumped right back at her), she has a similar view like what I described. A true Christian is aware how bad he/she is, and does not go around pointing fingers. A decent muslim should be similar.

>>18107575
>you don't seem to understand how you and your girlfriend fucked up.
I've said like fifty times I didn't think the way she confronted her was the right thing to do. I didn't participate in the conversation at all except as a listener.

All I did was hear someone imply that they thought people like me should be put to death, and then when I raised a voice of concern to my family everyone pounced on me, because of who my date was. It's not about the fight at all to me, it's about hearing something terrifying and horrible and having no one you love on your side. Now it's four months later and they would still rather accept someone who all but said 'yeah, i think your daughter deserves to die for her sins'. If you don't think that's fucked up I don't know what to say.

>>18107601
>"sorry for last night"
This happened at Thanksgiving, and OP hasn't spoken to her family since.

Just realized my post >>18107603 seems unrelated. My point is, I believe that your brother's gf does not think you should be killed, but also does not believe she should discuss these things with you, out of both sense of propriety and moral issues.

Well, if she was on the fence about lesbians before, the two of you sure gave her a strong push towards hatred. Bravo, OP.

>>18107605
You were right to confront her. Stoneage bullshit cultures and belief systems need to be exposed and deleted from the world. She's just as bad as a dood with a nazi stache and swastika at the dinner table. Those of you who think her gender or recent media events change that are deluded.

>>18107605
And you have just confirmed that you don't understand why you two are in the wrong here. Do everyone a favour and stay out of their lives.

>>18107615
Not op here. But your advice sounds retarded. How are they supposed to go to some social event like a family dinner when her brothers gf thinks they should be put to death? Why would you eat dinner with that person then?

Would you start dating a kkk member that brings their hood to dinner in a black family? Go back to college son. People defending mussies are in the wrong, always.

(1) Islam isn't a race, so it's not racist
(2) Islam is an ideology, so you can critique it like any other ideology
(3) some Muslims will want to hurt you if you critique Islam-- this should tell you something about whether it is a good ideology
(4) Islam is, in fact, a far-right ultraconservative ideology
(5) I have absolutely no idea why the far left thinks it is a good idea to ally with Islamists

I don't know if this girl is practising, particularly devout, follows her own westernised version of her religion like so many others (basically I believe and support the things drummed into me as a child, but suppress and rationalise ignorance of them in order to exist in the modern world) or what and I guess neither do you.

But there is a fair chance she was taught and believes deep down that homosexuality is wrong and punishable by death if you continue and are unrepentant after the first offence.

Now if you put her on the spot, she'll likely be flustered, not want to cause a scene, not want to actually start preaching at you and your family, because she is a human trying to do what humans do, fit in, have a nice time, be a nice advocate for themselves and their lifestyle. She most definitely doesn't want to kill you or your girlfriend there and then herself.

But she likely deep down on a level which is constantly conflicted and challenged by the reality of her daily life supports and believes things which would bring about a system where somebody else would or you would be discouraged from openly practising homosexuality.

Like I imagine she'd feel bad about you being put to death, but she'd hope that instead you followed islam and weren't put to death and she'd consider it a choice you had. She likely doesn't even want the intervening period of violence or bloodshed, but instead believes in a future where there is no need for violence or bloodshed because everybody supports and is loved by god through islam.

Religion is fucking weird and I believe that people who are openly religious should be challenged on it. Otherwise they spend their whole life in a bubble believing that everything is just wonderful unable to understand why so many other people seem to encounter debate and dispute and challenges.

So yeah, there would have been more productive ways in which to engage in debate that might have been less emotive and less destructive to your family.

>>18107623
Have you read the thread? They're no longer going to be invited to family events.

>when her brothers gf thinks they should be put to death?
You're just as retarded as OP and her girlfriend. She never said that.

>>18107370
Your gf was a dick, but the muslim girl thinking that the execution of gays is ~her personal opinion~ is also shitty. It's kind of funny because she's riding white non-muslim cock before marriage, but has the gall to pretend she has morals.

No one wants to be around someone that literally supports murdering them.

Drop gf and tell your brother to drop his gf.

>>18107608
It didn't really feel like that but if that's the case I wish she would have just told me. I'd like to have a conversation and see if we can get it all sorted out if possible. Do you think she would talk about it and clarify some of her positions for me if I asked her?

She's an American Muslim dating a non-Muslim who has a gay sister. What she is doing is explicitly forbidden by Islam and it is a practice that is upheld by many moderate Muslims.

So she's clearly liberal as fuck and you were being assholes.

>>18107629
Like you kind of went for the emotional throat by asking 'does THIS girl want to kill me and MY girlfriend?'. How did you think that was going to go? You got the answer you got and should have expected that.

I would have started a conversation about how I don't meet many muslims and asked her to describe her relationship with religion. I'd have said that I find several aspects personally troubling such as the death penalty for unrepentant homosexuals and asked if she supports aspects of islam that while personally would not ask her to do this, but would bring about a system where this was a potential outcome. I'd have used her answer to discuss the themes of moderation and adaptation and westernisation and the benefits enjoyed by the individual, vs the more conservative traditional interpretation and if these are culturally compatible or if reformation of islam is an ongoing thing whether we acknowledge it or not.

I mean, maybe you want to subtly paint her into a position of being a hypocrite, enjoying all the rights and benefits of living in an advanced western democracy while holding onto core values and beliefs which are completely incompatible and would undo the rights and benefits she enjoys and if unable or unwilling to acknowledge this hypocrisy at least acknowledge that she is turning a blind eye to things in the hope that others will deal with it so she can continue to exploit benefit to herself and admit that islam incompatible with western values while people like herself are the way they are.

This to me seems like a more productive conversation which would have been less destructive by virtue of being less emotionally to the point.

What you did in the situation you were in was kind of hysterical and unhelpful and likely why your family sided with her because she likely looked moderate while being under attack.

>>18107634
just leave her alone

the fact that she danced around the questions, instead of saying "no, i don't want you dead" like any normal person means....she does want you dead

you should read studies about "moderate" muslims. most support sharia law. the only difference between a radical and a moderate is that one will kill gays, and the other will only support gays being killed.

>>18107631
>Have you read the thread? They're no longer going to be invited to family events.

Have you read the thread? She said "I told them it was fucking bullshit and that I didn't want anything to do with her and I haven't talked to any of them since December."

Read harder. This chick has been avoiding her family because of what happened. It doesn't imply they won't be invited to family events again. Anyways, 99.9% of families aren't going to alienate a daughter just over a sons girlfriend, not for very long anyways.

And wrong again son. If she didn't think they deserved to die, then she could have simply said that and explained that's only extremist muslims that think that. But that's just not the case, most of them think gays should be executed, it's not some fringe element in them, it's a whole culture of backwards shit.

>>18107370
I advise you to apologize and pretend to make up. Then every time you go to dinner with the family wear a trump shirt and bring a bacon themed dish to serve so you can be quietly offense and shitty in a quiet way just like she is being.

>>18107605

How many people need to tell you you're wrong before you concede it's possible you're wrong?

Do you like it when people attack you about your beliefs and demand you explain and apologize for them?

Are you pro-life or pro-choice? What if someone heard your basic position and demanded to know why you're okay with oppressing women/ murdering infants?

Your girlfriend and acted made a horrible impression on her, put her on trial, and then claimed victimhood when she didn't play into your bullshit.

I don't know what the girl's actual position on homosexuality is, but I'd wager you're not posting this from Saudi Arabia and are in basically zero danger of meeting an anti-rugmunching lynch mob. In other words, what that girl privately thinks about gays is completely irrelevant to your wellbeing. You and your girlfriend made asses of yourselves over nothing and drove a wedge between yourselves and others for no good reason.

Quit milking this idiotic farce, re-establish your family relationships, and hope this whole thing blows over. And learn to leave people's personal beliefs alone.

>>18107650
>Have you read the thread? She said "I told them it was fucking bullshit and that I didn't want anything to do with her and I haven't talked to any of them since December."
Seriously, have you read the thread? >>18107570 OP's family wants nothing to do with her.

>And wrong again son. If she didn't think they deserved to die, then she could have simply said that and explained that's only extremist muslims that think that.
Yes, because when you're being bombarded with questions by some psycho you've never met before who doesn't have any social skills and who seems to think you have a problem with them, you're going to think straight and try to reason with them. You're right, that's totally plausible

>>18107656
>re-establish your family relationships
That's not going to happen until OP ditches the girlfriend, and she's unwilling to do that. And even then, it's not guaranteed that they'll want her back

>>18107657
Imagine OP's girlfriend accused you of killing babies.

Now what would be your response to this?
>of course not, that's insane!
or
>i don't know, that's my personal opinion. can you leave me alone?

Really activates your almonds

>>18107660
There's a difference between 'you like killing babies, don't you?' and
>My gf keeps pressing her

Anyway, argue about this all you want, OP's family want nothing to do with her. Whether she's in the right or in the wrong (hint: she's in the wrong) doesn't change that.

>>18107663
No, there isn't. Normal people don't support murdering gays. Normal people would vehemently deny supporting murder even if they were being questioned by a nutball like OP's gf. Note how the muslim girl never once denies that she wants gays dead.

Both OP and her brother are wrong. Both girlfriends are shit and should be broken up with.

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>>18107657
>Seriously, have you read the thread? >>18107570 # OP's family wants nothing to do with her.

Lol, you don't know anything about families. What has it been, 2 months since it happened. And now your opinion is what? Her whole family has chosen side mussie and she's never invited back. Really?

And trying to make excuses for this muzzie like she's a deeply logical and rational person is laughable.

>hey guys, just brought my kkk friend to dinner. What? You are asking him too many questions! You are bombarding him and cornering him! His inner deep eloquence and rationalism isn't being given time to shine. You are obviously recist against him.

>>18107672
kek, this is spot on

>b-but guys, someone wanting you dead is like, a personal opinion that should be respected
>who cares if she wishes you were dangling from a noose! you're being so impolite right now!

>>18107679
I'm pretty sure if she wanted them dead she wouldn't be eating dinner with them. She got angry that her girlfriend stereotyped her. Pretty stupid argument and assumptions.

>>18107696
I guess they should have tried harder to.......
Defuse her anger.

>>18107696
I guess they shouldn't have....

Blown up on her like that.

>>18107701
>>18107703
You're puns are THE BOMB.

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>>18107708
Sorry everyone, we didn't mean to say anything offensive. We're ready for dinner now.

>>18107708
It sounds like she got a little too agitated and just...

Lost her head.

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Sure I can go to dinner, but I have an appointment later tonight....
At 9:11.

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I'm ready, I got they turkey.

>>18107656
I would think they were very rude and might even tell them to fuck off. But since they were not an infant themselves they probably wouldn't take it as a personal threat, it's different from her responding to a lesbian that way. I've already said my gf was wrong, that's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking if it's normal for nobody to even hear my concerns. To pose a different hypothetical, if somebody was asked whether or not they wanted you dead and they couldn't just say no, would you want to associate with that person?

All I know is the answer she gave. I don't feel like I'm in danger from her but it's the principle of it, if she feels that way about gays I don't want her in my life and my family shouldn't want her either being that their daughter is lesbian. I don't think you really see why I have an issue, you just see the fact that she's the victim (which she is) and ignore the fact that maybe my reaction to what I heard is logical.

Anyways I slept on it and talked to gf about it, she's going to apologize. I also want to have one on one with her to talk about it in depth. If this is a misunderstanding I want to know but if she does feel that way I want to explain my concerns and talk to her about it. If this thread is still alive whenever we talk I'll update on what happened.

>>18108256
I'm Muslim and I have worked and been great friends with gay people.
I only have a problem when they start assuming that I hate gays or would like to kill them etc. Or are overly gay Infront of everyone and anyone, kinda like your faggot gf

Your OP irked me because it had the word obviously in it.

Just because someone is Muslim does not mean that theyre a full on terrorist or are constantly thinking up ways of killing infidels.
It's like saying every Christian you've ever met was a 100% practising because then they'd hate gays too.
Or that since you're a qualified doctor, you cant fuck up a surgery.

Unfortunately, the media and our crazies have created this amazing facade that all Muslims are the same nutty fanatics and that they can't lead normal lives.

Your brother's gf is liberal enough to date a non Muslim, she obviously pays less attention to Islam than you think she does, maybe she's just uncomfortable about talking religion? I'd be very uncomfortable too if a stranger I just met at a family dinner started accusing me of wanting to murder them because of a religion I dont even follow properly.

I think your gf is extremely obnoxious with no manners.
And fuck you for being a lesbian.

>>18108256
I agree with you that's it's disturbing, OP. Tolerance for hatred against western values is suicidal. I don't understand why the left wants to ally with ultra-right-wing regressive theocrats, especially after Charlie Hebdo and the Pulse gay nightclub shootings and the Theo Van Gogh cartoonist incident etc etc etc. This ideology is worse than the KKK or the Nazis.

>>18107370
the girl didn't give you an answer so she probably doesn't like gays.

That doesn't mean she isn't entitled to her opinion. It's just the same as not being sexually attracted to black people or hating people who like the yankees or hating people from france.

You guys were in the wrong in my opinion, she didn't want to lie or make you feel uncomfortable, but you made her feel uncomfortable about her beliefs and like she was being prejudiced against.

Personally I don't like any religion, they all have their shitty bits, in the bible you're supposed to kill gays and disobedient children, only difference between muslims and christians is that christians don't take their religion as seriously, they don't follow it word for word, like muslims.

In cases like this just be polite, talk about things that won't cause conflict and think of your brother.

>>18107570
>What I really want is to be able to tell my parents and brother how I feel
Have you considered how your brother's gf feels at all? Its hard enough to identify as a Muslim in the USA these days, then she gets accosted and interrogated by this complete and utter stranger (who isn't even a family member of her boyfriend) in the house of her boyfriend's family who she probably has never met before about her entire world views. If that isn't already uncomfortable enough, now her boyfriend's sister is siding against her and is getting all defensive. All because she happened to identify as a Muslim, she's got people treating her like she's ISIS. How would you feel if you met your girlfriend's family the first time, and your girlfriend's sister is some evangelical Christian who starts interrogating you with questions like that. Imagine she began asking you if you think that gay people are more likely to spread AIDS or whatever? You and your gf are utterly insensitive and selfish.

You should know better than anyone the dangers of identity politics and shaming someone based on stereotypes and ignorance. You are going by what you think you heard and what you thought she meant, when all the girl was doing was trying to avoid being cornered and shamed based on how she identifies. Shame on you.

>>18108285
Also thats the thing with being a Muslim. Someone can identify as a Muslim but not be practicing, or even believing, but it is a part of their cultural background and they respect it. Doesn't mean they believe in god or are allahu akbars. Thats the thing you Westerners don't understand, religion for us isn't just about belief. And seeing how there's a big row over Islam these days in the West, Islam has played into pure identity politics and is no longer just about faith. Sometimes you identify as a certain thing in solidarity with your fellows who come from the same background because every body else sees you as one and treats you as such. Identity politics is retarded.

Also consider this OP. Just because she is uncomfortable around homosexuals doesn't mean she hates them or wishes them violence, but it might simply mean that she isn't used to being around them and has been brainwashed to think negatively about them from their culture and were never able to confront these cultural stigmas. The fact that she avoided the question and tried to sit with you and hang out in the first place says that she isn't utterly close minded. You could have taken this opportunity to make her comfortable around homosexuals and expose her to a lifestyle or to ideas that she was previously never exposed to in a positive and nurturing way, thus changing her ideas about homosexuals. Instead your idiot girlfriend did the complete opposite and fueled these negative cultural stigmas around homosexuals. If anything, if you want to make it better you should apologise to your family (with your gf) and try to reconnect, and you should make the effort to rebuild the bridge that you burned and try to turn this into something positive if not neutral. You shouldn't wait for the girl to contact you...

>>18107370
>Who is wrong?
You. You is wrong.

She made every effort to be civil and you spat in her face. This is someone that might become family.

Learn2Diplomacy or you're gonna have a bad time.

>>18107370
I'm a fucking racist /pol/ack and think Islam is barbaric. That being said your gf was completely out of line and basically looking for trouble. What did she honestly expect to happen? Your gf should make a sincere apology to her and your brother and neither of you should even think of trying to have a "discussion" with her about it. Try and restore relations with your family because they are more important than your gf.

My gf called her up and said she wants to apologize. I guess they want to get it over with ASAP because we're all meeting up tonight. Will post update after.

Also, I should clarify that I know not all muslims are homophobic. One of the first people I came out to was a friend of mine who was also muslim, I came out to her before my parents because I knew I could trust her. Before this fight I was actually quickly warming up to brother's gf because she reminded me of her, I felt really relaxed with her. It never even occurred to me. I think that's part of why I got so freaked out, it wasn't what I expected or wanted to hear, it totally caught me off guard. Anyways I hope we can clear the air tonight.

>>18107377
>Muslim girl doesn't give a straight answer.
>My gf keeps pressing her
>she kind of dances around the question for a while without really saying how she feels.

You're gf is obviously pressing her into a corner this muslim girl DID NOT want to talk about. She obviously had a different opinion, but your gf ignored the sign that she did not want to talk about it and continued to press. Of course this muslim got defensive: she was being pressed and was continued to be pursued after she showed signs of not wanting to talk about it

You're gf should've backed off when this girl showed signs of dancing around the issue and not talking about it

>>18107370
>because you're Muslim
Stopped reading there. Kys OP, but not jihadi way.

>>18108696
Okay, we're back, here's what happened. The tl;dr is that it went well but I also need more advice afterwards so if anyone is up to give me their thoughts I'd appreciate it.

1/2

We showed up at my brother's place, and my gf wouldn't let us waste any time in getting to the apology. She gave a really good one, it was heartfelt, and I apologized too. They accepted our apologies, and after that we had dinner, it was still awkward at first but slowly it got more natural as time went on, we were chatting about work and stuff, having a few laughs.

The whole time in the back of my mind I'm trying to figure out what she really thinks about us, I tried to turn it off but I couldn't. After dinner she asks me if she can talk to me alone and I'm happy to.

So we go into their bedroom and just sit and talk. She surprises me by telling me that she wanted to call me and talk about this earlier, and also talk to my brother about it, but he basically stonewalled her and insisted she didn't have to explain anything to anyone. But she still felt bad about how things went down and understood why I got freaked out when she couldn't answer. She explained that she was raised very conservatively, but that she is slowly getting away from that line of thought, bit by bit (she is pretty young, only 20). One of the things she's struggling with is how she was always taught that homosexuality is a sin and that the punishment for it should be the death penalty, and because she had conflicting thoughts on it she couldn't answer my gf, and also partially because of shame. She stressed that she is still trying to figure out exactly what she believes but that she still agrees with what she was taught by her parents in that regard.

She said that it wasn't a personal thing and that by admitting to that she didn't intend to threaten me or my gf, and that we both seemed like good people (this kind of surprised me, lol). (cont.)

>>18109623
2/2

After that we talked about each other and I got to know her pretty well. She asked about my gf and I told her about her. Then at the end of the conversation she told me that if I don't want to see her anymore she'd understand perfectly, because she wouldn't want to hang out with anybody who thought muslims should get the death penalty, so why would I want to hang out with someone who feels that way about gays. Then we played some Mario Kart and that was it.

My question is how should I proceed from here? I respect the courage it must have taken for her to say that to me and I thought she was super reasonable, I got a sense from her that she wanted all of us to be friends, and I would like that too. But at the same time I don't know if I can or should reconcile her beliefs with who I am.

>>18109641

You stop being an entitled asshole. Jesus Christ. The poor girl just tried to be friends with you.

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>>18107370
>Dude, this person's keeping to themselves, and now I'm going to fuck with her because even IF she might be homophobic, it's not like people are allowed to have their own beliefs, lmao!

How did liberalism come to this? I'm conservative/libertarian as fuck, but it's not like I fucking bust people's balls when I find out they're gay or some shit. Just because I believe in Christianity and think we should have more secure borders against incoming refugees doesn't mean I get all autistic and go REEEEEEE whenever I meet a muslim, refugee or no.

I swear to Christ, at least 75 percent of all liberals I've ever met have been less tolerant than all of the conservative people I've ever known. How absolutely embarrassing. Call your girlfriend out on being a shitty person and apologize for whatever the fuck you guys have just done. Bake the girl a cake and leave the poor lady alone, for Christ's sake. My gosh. Ridiculous.

>>18109655
Where did that come from?

>>18109674
>But at the same time I don't know if I can or should reconcile her beliefs with who I am.

Somebody thinks differently. Doesnt make them a monster.

>>18109681
No, I don't think she's a monster, I think she seems like a nice person. Like I said I think she genuinely wants to be friends and I would like that if possible. But I'm a lesbian, that's a big part of my identity, can I really in good faith be friends with someone who feels that way. If I ignore it and make it work with her am I saying I find it acceptable? I have lots of friends who think differently from me but this is sort of an extreme case.

>>18109697

Why does your sexuality have to be your identity? Find other shit to identify with. Who you pork is none of anyone's business but your own. Sexuality should be the last thing you bring up with someone. Ask her opinion about sports/nature/psychology. You made a mountain out of a mole hill and cornered the poor girl who was there to meet you and your family.

>>18109702
I can't help it if it's part of my identity, it's what I am. The same way any other minority can't help who they are.

kill yourself you disgusting dyke
you are obviously incapable of understanding other peoples emotions, or put yourself into her situation
i hope you do get the death penalty for being such a garbage subhuman

>>18109702
Also, I don't think I made a mountain out of a molehill since if you reread my post she confirmed my assumption was true. That's the only thing holding me back from wanting to move forward with a relationship with her and it's kind of a big deal.

>>18109713

She's not hating you for your fucking race, you retard. She may/may not disagree with your fucking life choice. You're a straight up asshole. This has nothing to do with your sexuality

>>18109728
Really constructive, thank you.

>>18109713
You don't have to rub it in front of other people's face though. It's one thing to be a dyke and another thing to constantly tell and remind other people that you're dyke.

>>18109697

This girl just told you everything you wanted to know. She also wants to maybe be friends with you. I think this is an a rare opportunity to change a person's mind that is actually open to it. Our parents fuck us all up far more than you know. She is trying to sort though that an make decisions about the world for her self. You could be the Lesbro she needs to see that gay people are just people who want what everyone wants, love and respect.

>>18109732
There isn't any may not about it. She holds an extreme viewpoint that I don't have experience dealing with, she told me as much. I don't know where all this hate is coming from because I thought tonight went really well, and I really like her.

I just want to know what you guys think about other people's views. What views would someone have to hold that would make you decide you can't be friends with them anymore?

>>18109739
Okay, this makes a lot of sense. The vibe I got from her was an open one. I got the feeling she was conflicted about it. I don't think she would say she thought we were good people if she was really adamant about it. Maybe we can make it work. But at the same time I don't want to try and change her and I definitely don't want her to think I'm trying to change her.

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>>18109732
>She may/may not disagree with your fucking life choice
>>18109623
>she still agrees with what she was taught by her parents in that regard.

It's not like there is still any ambiguity here. The girlfriend approached this in a horrible way but she admitted she agrees with her family who believe in the death penalty for homosexuality.

While OPs gf needs to work on her own shit, this is no longer "just a molehill".

>>18109741

"Extreme viewpoint" She doesnt have an EXTREME VIEWPOINT. She's not calling for your beheading or you to be dragged through the streets for being gay. She disagrees with two women rubbing clits together and fucking eachother with dildos.

>>18109741
>I just want to know what you guys think about other people's views. What views would someone have to hold that would make you decide you can't be friends with them anymore?

Here's what I think: You don't force people to talk about or reveal their views and opinions, especially with people you've just met. You don't pry. That's impolite. Everyone has secrets. Their world view is one of them.

A person's religious views shouldn't be the only thing you judge them by. They're often superficial compared to their actual character.

>>18109754
>She doesnt have an EXTREME VIEWPOINT.
>>18109623
>One of the things she's struggling with is how she was always taught that homosexuality is a sin and that the punishment for it should be the death penalty, and because she had conflicting thoughts on it she couldn't answer my gf, and also partially because of shame. She stressed that she is still trying to figure out exactly what she believes but that she still agrees with what she was taught by her parents in that regard.

This qualifies as an extreme viewpoint.

>>18109733
the irony of that reply is just ridiculous
is your iq really so low that you are incapable of understanding what i am trying to say?
this is more constructive than a paragraph of describing your errors and retardation.
just the simple fact that your dyke girlfriend asked her about the punishment of degenerates such as you in islam, a controversial topic that is greatly debated among the fuqaha, over a family meeting shows how socially braindead and disrespectful she is.
"hey, it's nice to eat with us at this non-muslim holiday and talk with us, by the way since you have sex befoee marriage with your non-muslim boyfriend and been treating us not like the subhumans we deserve to be treated, do you think i should be killed?"
do you not realize how absolutely retarded that sounds?
you do not know anything about this person, but i hope you could atleast DEDUCE from her actions that this is obviously NOT what she thinks.
but of course, since you subhuman degenerates lack a sense of tact and empathy, a fight started.
luckily enough, you were able to resolve this issue and were forgiven thanks to the nice muslim girl.
but what you actually deserve is someone spitting on your face and a thorough beating so this wont happen again.
you dont even sound apologetic at all to me.
i hate identity politics. they are a result of constant insecurity and the fear of rejection by society. and their solution is to just project the hate they experience onto other people.
just to remind you again, you do actually deserve the death penalty, especially your shitty ass girlfriend.

I was right, the muslim gf wants to kill gays

What a surprise. Fuck everyone else ITT

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>>18109769
>What a surprise.
Truly it was the plot twist of the century.

>>18109764
idiot. you cant just abandon what your parents have taught you. they are your role models, and you grow up trying to emulate them your whole life.
i am certain op is lying to make herself look better, since what she is saying does not quite add up, but this girl has an open mind and is definetly not acting hateful towards op. the muslim girl just doesnt know what her beliefs about lesbianism are.
she just knows shes muslim, just like op knows shes lesbian. that is it.
dont force yourself onto her.

>>18109779
>they are your role models
Who also want to kill gays. This is concerning to most people in the west. Even among those who consider homosexuality a sin, you would be hard pressed to find someone who unironically believes the death penalty should be applied.

These are in fact extremist viewpoints. The fact they are her parents does not diminish this. She by extension, holds extreme viewpoints. She may potentially change, but that is not now.

Simple stuff, really.

>>18109783
They say that in Islam, the punishment for homosexuality is death. Of course, whether or not this is case is not the subject of the debate here. They obviously do not act upon that belief and, more importantly, they do not call for it.

She obviously does not hold that belief. It is mereley something that has been taught to her. It is not her viewpoint at all.

Whether or not those are "extremist" viewpoints is another topic that requires knowledge on Islamic Law and interpretations. I doubt either you, that girls parents or the girl herself possess that kind of knowledge.
I just advise you to not use the word extremist. It is too politicised.

Even though OP is never going to be judged and executed, the thought of knowing the girl would throw her under the bus if it came up is depressing. There'll always be this one insincere factor in their relationship- "As it is now, I'd support the lynch mob if there was one, but there's not, so let's be friends! I might change my mind about the lynching later if it makes you feel better." I can understand OP about that, though I agree that this topic should never have come up in the first place. Idk I think I'd be friendly for the sake of family and politeness but wouldn't be very excited about it.

>>18109779
>dont force yourself onto her.
Do you think she was just being nice about wanting to be friends with me? I feel like she was really sincere but I can understand if she actually wants nothing to do with us. That's part of the reason why I'm not sure if I want to keep trying with her, because it's a two-way street, I'm not the only one potentially offended by the other's belief and I don't want to harass her.

>>18109755
>A person's religious views shouldn't be the only thing you judge them by. They're often superficial compared to their actual character.
I appreciate this, thank you.

>>18109783
Since you agree that it's an extreme viewpoint, can I ask you something? If you were gay (or if you are), would you be able to be friends with someone who held that viewpoint but wasn't sure about it?

I realize I'm kind of going in circles with this but I want a variety of viewpoints, bear with me here and thank you all for responding.

Since it seems like you're comfortable with her now, I think you should be civil to her. However, I don't think you should pursue a close relationship with her if the prerequisite to that relationship is that she changes her views. You don't need to take this gamble. I wouldn't try to be buddy-buddy with someone if it meant worrying the whole time if she still wants me dead.

The replies in this thread are absurd

Imagine the muslim gf said this instead:
"well my KKK parents told me all blacks should be lynched"
"I'm just not sure if I want to hang you or not"

>Wow OP can you stop judging her because of her parents beliefs?
>If you are nice to her maybe she'll stop wanting to lynch all blacks
>OP have you considered that being black is a choice not everyone accepts

Fuckin hell

>>18109797
>They obviously do not act upon that belief
Then I suggest you look at the some of the muslim controlled countries. Many of them in fact do. Now we're not talking about all muslims. We're not talking about a hypothetical moderate group with relatively western values. We're talking about a girl who explicitly admitted her parents want to kill gays, and that she still holds that belief.

>She obviously does not hold that belief.
>She stressed that she is still trying to figure out exactly what she believes but that she still agrees with what she was taught by her parents in that regard.
Except for the part where she said she did.

>Whether or not those are "extremist" viewpoints is another topic that requires knowledge on Islamic Law and interpretations.
I'm talking relative to western values. Where she is. Western values dictates it is a no no to kill homosexuals. Again, simple stuff!

>>18109801
>would you be able to be friends with someone who held that viewpoint but wasn't sure about it?
Absolutely not. I'm atheist. I frequently debate Christians who claim it's a sin, even some who go so far as to say I am fundamentally immoral. I'd go so far as to say I am friends with some of them. But the moment they start talking about killing me, I'm out the door. Doesn't matter if ~they're on the fence about it~.

Let's make it clear here. She is AT BEST on the fence about killing homosexuals. That is the best case scenario.

You should've been controlling your bitch. Or is she the one who wears the pants?

>>18109812
shut the fuck up and kill yourself retard
http://al-qantara.revistas.csic.es/index.php/al-qantara/article/download/172/165

dont talk about an issue you have no knowledge about. homosexuality is outlawed in most of the non-western world.

>She stressed that she is still trying to figure out exactly what she believes but that she still agrees with what she was taught by her parents in that regard.

1) no clear opinion=no own viewpoint
2) no clear specification what part of her parents teaching she agrees on
3)adoption of another persons viewpoint=not your own viewpoint

>extremist viewpoint
i was telling you to not use the word extremist, because it is politicised and not the correct word to describe her opinion.

>>18109840
>shut the fuck up and kill yourself retard
No thanks, I'm quite happy living in a country where I don't have to fear for my life due to my beliefs!

>homosexuality is outlawed in most of the non-western world.
And? I don't care about the non western world. I'm not arguing within that frame of reference. I'm arguing within the west, where homosexuality is at most frowned upon but usually accepted. I'm sorry to say but clicky-clackistan stuck in the 1400's isn't very relevant to me!


>no clear specification what part of her parents teaching she agrees on
>she still agrees with what she was taught by her parents in that regard.
Wrong. It is quite clearly about the whole stabby stabby the gays part. Maybe you need to take an English class? If you're a foreigner, it would make sense why you need to be brought up to speed that killing gays is frowned upon.

>not the correct word to describe her opinion.
But it is. No two ways about it, even being on the fence about killing gays is an extremist position.

>>18109840
>2) no clear specification what part of her parents teaching she agrees on
By 'in that regard' I did mean the view that homosexuality is a sin which should be punished with the death penalty. She definitely agrees with that, even if she didn't seem really enthusiastic saying it she was clear about that. She then reiterated that viewpoint here:

>>18109641
>she told me that if I don't want to see her anymore she'd understand perfectly, because she wouldn't want to hang out with anybody who thought muslims should get the death penalty, so why would I want to hang out with someone who feels that way about gays.

Like I said though it was clear to me she was conflicted about it and I was reassured by her that she didn't have any personal hatred for me so I'm not as concerned about it as I was.

If you're the same guy above who said I was a degenerate who should be executed, can I get your opinion on something? If you had to work with me or if I was dating someone in your family, would you prefer if I tried to reach out to you and be your friend or should I leave you alone with your beliefs? My brother's gf seems to be more moderate than you but I'm sure her beliefs are just as important to her as yours so I'm wondering what your perspective would be.

>>18107633
>Drop gf and tell your brother to drop his gf.
I agree with this. Will never happen tho.

>>18109860
>Then I suggest you look at the some of the muslim controlled countries. Many of them in fact do.
>homosexuality is outlawed in most of the non-western world.
>I'm arguing within the west, where homosexuality is at most frowned upon but usually accepted.
truly a master of atheistic debating
xD
>clicky-clackistan
>stabby stabby the gays
why do you write like a mentally retarded person

extremist=someone who uses and advocates extreme methods
fundamentalist is a better word
i dont live in an english speaking country


>>18109881
yes talk to her
its for the best, will help you both with personal growth
treat each other normally

Anyways time for me to split, thank you everyone for your thoughts. I think the move here is to be friendly towards her without really going out of my way to spend time with her, so that's what I'll do. Maybe in time our relationship will change, either for the better or worse, but I want to give her the benefit of the doubt.

>>18109921
>yes talk to her
>its for the best, will help you both with personal growth
>treat each other normally
Okay, good advice, thank you. I'm glad I saw this before I signed off.

>>18109921
>truly a master of atheistic debating
Oh darling this was never a debate. I'm not out to debate the values of say, Iran where they still hang gays.

>why do you write like a mentally retarded person
Because I'm dealing with someone who's trying to make killing gays sound normal. I'm bringing it down to your level. Stabby stab bad bad.

>>18109923
Aww yay OP! Maybe she'll change her mind about wanting to murder you :)) You're not such a terrible child molesting dyke after all!

Sincerely, all the liberal straight people in this thread.

>>18109931
>Oh darling this was never a debate. I'm not out to debate the values of say, Iran where they still hang gays.
we werent even talking about values
my point was that the discrimination of homosexuals is normal outside (and inside) the west. the west just decided to make laws that fight against the oppression of homosexuals. and that its not unique to "muslim controlled countries (???)" that they discriminate against homosexuals.


>Because I'm dealing with someone who's trying to make killing gays sound normal.
thats not what i was trying to say

>Stabby stab bad bad.
kek

>Do you think my gf and I are...being irrational?

Yes. Your girlfriend was rude, though from your story you personally are blameless. Generally when people don't give straight answers or evade questions it means they don't want to discuss that topic.

>>18109966
>do you want me killed ?
>STOP ASKING RUDE QUESTIONS ! IT'S NOT YOUR BUSINESS IF I THINK YOU SHOULD BE PUSHED FROM A ROOF

>>18109764
Now I am not sure about which part she agrees with. That it is a sin, or that it should be punished by the death penalty? It is a sin, sure as shootin'. But killing someone over it is a WAY bigger sin, as in contrary to 10 Commandments. I believe that Islam does respect that part of the Bible, Moses is a prophet for them too. If she thinks you deserve the death penalty, then I think it is slightly impossible for you two to be friends.

I hate to bump this mess but when I woke up today another problem came to me. I still haven't told my gf what me and my brother's gf talked about, specifically not the part about her beliefs, and I reaaally don't think I should. She has no tolerance for homophobia at all and wouldn't take the news well (if you've been following this thread you know what I mean), she kind of sees the world in black-and-white on that issue. But at the same time I think she has a right to know. I forgot to mention this, but my brothers gf asked me not to tell anyone and said she wanted to talk to my family about it herself when she was ready. But my brother and family aren't gay, it doesn't apply to them so directly.

I feel like the right thing to do is tell her, even though I know what she's going to say and how it's going to turn out. If we're going to be spending more time with this girl in the future she should know the same things I know. But I don't want to because it would just wind back all the progress we've made.

Should I do the right thing or the smart thing?

>>18110761
I think you might have misunderstood her again.

If my interpretation is correct, she was telling you that she agrees with her parents in the sense that she thinks you are wrong to be lesbian, that you're committing a sin which is bad for your spiritual well-being, and NOT that she is all for chopping your head off. You better clear this up completely before telling anyone.

If she is all for killing you, you should tell everybody.

As an aside, I also think that muslim countries which have death penalty for homosexuality mostly kill gays and imprison/fine lesbians, though there are certainly those who do both in.

>>18107370
Your girlfriend behaved inappropriately and should apologize to your brother's gf. His gf is there to enjoy Thanksgiving, not explain her political views. How would you feel if Fatima had asked you about what you do in the bedroom. She might be legitimately curious, but it would likely violate your boundaries. Bear in mind that some cultures do not like discussing personal opinions openly.

>>18107603
Very classy answer!

Welcome to the liberal victim totem pole. You have now found your place on it. That being said, please do not reproduce or adopt children so that your disgusting mental disease might finally be irradiated from this Earth.

>>18107656
THIS THIS THIS THIS

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Your girlfriend a shit

>>18107370
What the hell. Your gf is legit cancer who just goes and says that not only once but twice three times or more????

>>18110761
You don't have to tell your gf about it if she's anal about it.
But she said she was escaping her parents' guidance, so, pls, don't judge her yet