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Nerds and/or Geeks

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Thread replies: 116
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Here's an easier question for /adv/: Where do I find other "legit" geeks in my age group (24-30)?

I've never had geek friends growing up nor did I join any clubs at uni when I had the chance. Geek shit is now mainstream so it feels hard to find people who it isn't just a diversion for them. Going to cons was pretty fruitless since it's 80% normies.
>>
>>18094827

define what a legit geek is, and then seek them otu based on that interest.

if i had to wager you're just being a unique snowflake about this.

there are different kinds of geeks and different types of geekdom. dont get me wrong i hate that everyone wears a power ranger shirt without having seen the show since before middle school, but there are still plenty of geeks out there who have.
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>>18094827
Why do you hate normies?
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>>18094847
>define

I put quotes around legit cos I understand that it is sort of malleable but by legit I mean someone who has more a passing interest (or claims geek now that they've seen a marvel movie). And to be honest, I don't find many geeks, "legit" or otherwise.
>>
Bump.

So I'm guessing I've basically missed out?
>>
Can /adv/ give no advice aside for banal and stupid problems?
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>>18095051
You can try making friends on internet communities and then meet up with people at cons. Talking to random strangers at cons will definitely net you 80% normies.

Wish I had a good answer for you because I'll be in the same boat once I move to a new city.
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>>18094827
Well what do you like to geek about? What are you most passionate about, and could speak for hours about?
For me that's video games, and philosophy.
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>>18095285
>You can try making friends on internet communities and then meet up with people at cons.

I should've done that back in 2001-2006 but it felt weird and sad to do that. I regret it now.
>>
Yeah really depends what you mean by geek. You're probably going to get some people younger than 24 mixed in with some older ones. These suggestions are more applicable if you live in or near a decent sized city. Comics? Attend your local comic book store events. Board games or role play? Attend your local game store D&D nights. Tech? Look at meetup.com for developer or app meet ups. Video games? Online is your best bet, with the opportunity to meet in person some day if you're lucky. Depending what you play, you can sometimes choose local servers. If you're satisfied with online friends, there are a lot of forums and discords tailored to specific interests you could join. I'm in the same boat as you in terms of age. There's just simply an age gap some of the time, but I find it's still possible to relate to people both younger and older.
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>>18095335
Thanks.
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>>18095335
Not OP, but hasn't the bar been raised for these things? I think that's what OP meant, that normies go to some of these and that he's no longer among his socially retarded peers.
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>>18095926
I tried to suggest ones that are still mostly geeks (esp. the comics and D&D, just look in the window during one of those events). If he goes to Comic Con or Marvel movie night, it is going to be a lot of normies. Popular fandoms have more normies, like Marvel, Overwatch, League of Legends etc.
>>
Don't fucking bother, it's a trap. i tried that shit. The problem is that most 'real nerds/geeks' at that age have been actively developing their interest, skill or nerd hobby. They're at a level of skill and sophistication that's far higher than you'd actually expect. So when you finally get around to getting into that club, or finding a new social circle of poindexters, you suddenly realize, "holy shit, everyone here outclasses me by two or three orders of magnitude and I am completely out of place here and need to leave."

it's hell. I'm probably just going to off myself in ten years when my current circle dissolves or eclipses me and leaves me behind.
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>>18095962
I remember reading somewhere on 4chan (/cgl/ I think), that since the influx of normies into comic-con there are fewer legit, as OP put it, geek girls in them since hot girls can just buy (or have a seagull make one for them) a costume and all their effort go unnoticed so some don't go at all. Wonder if this is still true for lesser known geeky shit.

>i tried that shit.
Details, I'd be interested.
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>>18095962
>Don't fucking bother, it's a trap. i tried that shit

Tell us what happened.
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>>18094827

>tfw geeks aren't geeky enough anymore
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You can find extrovert nerds at outdoor adventure clubs. Personally I tried a mountaineering club at my university with current past students as members.
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>>18096607
Sory of, a few things have happened; the huge success of comic book movies and vidya has led EVERYONE claiming they're geeks, the entry barrier has been lowered through shit like wikipedia and ease of access to media (back in the 90s/early 00s it was a task just finding episodes of anime, even popular ones) and we sort of got fucked being born into a transition generation for geeks, feels like the next generation are a whole more into geek shit.
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>>18096618
I didn't join an anime club in 2010 in uni when I had the chance. Really regretting it now.
>>
Go to board game meetups. Board gamers are always legit.
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>>18095335
This anon knows
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>>18097029
Did it work for you?
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>>18094827
>>18094827
>Where do I find other "legit" geeks in my age group (24-30)?
Sign up to meetup
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>>18095962
>>18096703
Were you participating in something competitive? You might try things that are cooperative instead. I know I've quit competitive games/clubs, because it's hard to catch up if you're new, and some people get so into it that they get angry or rude and it's not fun. It's kind of odd to me if you're talking about anime, though. Usually you can be as into it or not as you want. The groups I've been to don't even care if you watched the latest episode. They talk about other topics, too. I don't even watch anime and went, because I like manga. It was fine. Normies turned up sometimes, but the repeat attendees were usually true geeks.
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>>18094938

then go to geek events, obviously.
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>>18097393
>It's kind of odd to me if you're talking about anime, though. Usually you can be as into it or not as you want.

That's two different people you're replying to.
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>>18094938
Find table top crews. You might have to network your way into a circle. Like you meet some dudes who play pathfinder then through them you meet the friend who is fucking nerdy as hell and never goes out.
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>>18097393
>The groups I've been to don't even care if you watched the latest episode. They talk about other topics, too. I don't even watch anime and went, because I like manga. It was fine. Normies turned up sometimes, but the repeat attendees were usually true geeks.

What was it for?
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>>18097393
I know it's thirsty sounding question but how many girls go to these things? How many are geeks (with high power levels)?

(How many are attractive?)
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>>18098027
It was for people with similar interests to socialize. Most people did watch whatever anime of the week. They also talked about comics, games, and their lives. I'm just saying it's okay to be a newbie.

>>18098406
I will be honest and say that not many girls go. You can look on meetup to see how many girls are going. Girls have their own groups (example, "girl nerds" or "female coders" on meetup). The ones who do go usually have a longterm interest or they wouldn't bother going.
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>>18096815
A lot of these clubs are filled with older people like grad students and alumni because outdoor trips (skiing, camping, etc) are usually too expensive for most students. Join a meetup group for a geeky career group in your city like "[insert city here] data scientists" if you just want some introverted nerds to hang with.

If you want to find interesting people you have to have an interesting hobby to share with people. Your problem is that you're boring and no one is interested in boring people.
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>>18098437
>I will be honest and say that not many girls go.

Balls. What like a 9:1 ration or even 99:1?

>>18098437
>Girls have their own groups (example, "girl nerds" or "female coders" on meetup).

Makes sense why they'd have their own groups.
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>>18098460
>Your problem is that you're boring and no one is interested in boring people.

Gee, thanks.

>>18098460
>A lot of these clubs are filled with older people like grad students and alumni because outdoor trips (skiing, camping, etc) are usually too expensive for most students.

I don't know, my uni had other more interesting clubs for the cool people, I remember quite vividly the table for the anime club at the freshers fair was completely empty bar the girl who was manning the table. (She looked almost stereotypically nerdy, ginger braided pigtails, ghost white skin and massive gold-rimmed glasses. Like someone picked her out of an american high school movie.)
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>>18094827
Ask them what video games they played as a child and if they continued from there.


My sister and I were major geeks in grade school and it lasted since. I remember us being two of the few females at school who loved vidya. We had video game themed birthday parties and I remember only boys would show up and we'd all take turns playing golden eye. Our dad swooned me with Star Wars at a young age (my sister didn't catch on with that).


Personally have not found many girls my age who were like this. I remember girls started getting into gaming when we were like 16 or so. When Pokemon and Legend of Zelda became a meme.

I have found a few really close long-time gamer girl friends but, they kinda just became adult geeks that made it into the STEM career world. I landed and actually geeky boyfriend and my sister did too. My sister met hers through online gaming, surprisingly enough. I knew my bf from childhood and yea.

Honestly, you wouldn't catch me dead in head to toe "geek" attire. They are my personal interests and hobbies. I feel like the showboating of these interests practically redflags the normies. My "geeky" friends and I do go to nerd things occasionally. We participate in tournaments at our college but even then, the majority of people there are really extra.


I honestly think you just have to go to the events, then weed through the people.
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>>18098492
>Honestly, you wouldn't catch me dead in head to toe "geek" attire. They are my personal interests and hobbies. I feel like the showboating of these interests practically redflags the normies.

I don't know, I think that was true for my generation throughtout secondary to uni, but it seems cool now for normies to wear various bits of "geek" attire. Especially true for people basically 4-6 younger than me.
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Is meeting up with anons a good idea?
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>>18094938
I know what you mean. I was in engineering for a while and those kids weren't even good at being nerds. Like they didn't find out about day z until like a year after the beta and they weren't even in the dota 2 beta.

It was like a bunch of surface level big bang theory dweebs.
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>>18099411
No, it isn't. Those people are plebs.
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>>18095296
I like history, roleplaying games, and dwelling on my failed marriage!
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>>18099631
hell yeah, where do you live bro?
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>>18099818
Not quite what I meant.
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>>18099889
I know there's been goon meets but has there ever been anon meetups?
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Wtf is a geek nowadays?

I play a lot of dota 2, counter strike, guitar, and have a bachelors in computer science. These are things I love spending time doing, and no one has ever called me a geek.
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>>18100637
It's different nowadays I guess.

It just seemed like in the past that most geeks were people with their main interests and activities in certian niches and didn't have great social skills. I've never met any geeks, so it would've been like meeting kindred spirits if it was still like this.

It's a slight kick in the nuts now, it's just something everyone participates in.
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>>18099896
LONDON
O
N
D
O
N
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>>18099818
>oh my god he wasn't even in the dota 2 BETA
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I was in the Warrock beta, and I’ve been involved in numerous other betas, and I have over 300 confirmed mob kills. I am trained in beta applications and I’m the top sniper in the entire Warrock beta. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this cyber-Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of clan (xX69KillersXx) in the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your k/d. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in buggy beta install clients, but I have access to the entire arsenal of betas and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
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>>18094827
4chan.org
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College anime club. Bonus points if it's a community college.
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>>18101986
I finished uni a while back but why bonus if community college?
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>>18102023
More diverse crowd senpai, and many of these clubs let in people from the community.
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>>18102027
Right. Not sure what uk equivalent of a community college is...a former polytechnic, maybe? But I'm not heading back to uni anytime soon.
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>>18102237
Oh shit yeah, that would be real strange. I did part of University in England and there isn't the culture for that.
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>>18094827
>hurr durr look at me, I'm a special snowflake, not liek all teh normies
How about you grow the fuck up and realize you can define yourself by more than a fucking hobby?
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>>18102250
>America's different

You know, I'm curious of how geek events/clubs/things were like in the 90s in the UK.
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>>18102780
I found it was really really hard to access anything fun. This was at Leicester. Things were really disorganized across the board.
>>
find meetups instead of cons

there's usually a "hacker community" in every area
or a "maker community" full of people working on /diy/ projects which can be varying degrees of nerdy depending on engineer:woodsmith ratio

you don't need to be into those things from the get go, just find a schedule, attend a meetup, and if you like the people get into their hobby
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>>18102783
But there were things to access, right? I was growing up in a crap part of London so I never really ventured out my area and there was nothing IN the area either. Apparently there were things going on the neighbouring areas. What's kinda funny is I wasn't too far from comic-con London, though I found out about it like 20 years later.

What things were going on Leicester?
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>>18098481
>other more interesting clubs for the cool people
Like what? Rollercoaster Orgy Club (you must be this cool to ride)?
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>>18099631
Don't /fa/ggots meet up?
>>
Fair.

I just want nerds to hang out with and play EDF or watch anime or whatever. Ideally people with the same amount of social requirements so we can just hang out infrequently.
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>>18097393
These guys basically take every ranking position in the southwestern US Gunpla competitions. I showed up expecting to coast in on my autistic adherence to watching anime and got BTFO by raw skill.

I'll also add that nobody goes with any expectation of doing anything but conversing directly about the hobby at hand. You're not going to find a relationship. These people inexplicably never actually form relationships through their hobbies. It's maddening to me because I can't crack the secret of what they actually do. A few months ago, there was a girl on /adv/ who was opining on exactly such a subject; she was a member of a large anime club at her university and of course there were guys there who would have liked to date her. So where does she find her bf? At the bar, after talking about a skiiing trip.

It's not a battle you can fight. It's just the way shit is. I've accepted that my hobbies are never going to be a vehicle for finding romantic interests and since I have nothing outside of them I'm going to be alone for a very, very large majority of my life.
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>>18100626
Constantly. /k/ just had a metup in Texas (they actually have a huge series of national yearly meets, called Nuggetfest) that went legendarily wrong.
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>>18103949
>A few months ago, there was a girl on /adv/ who was opining on exactly such a subject...a skiing trip

I'm having a little difficulty understanding this paragraph.
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>>18104022
I mean they don't date people from those groups.
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>>18103962
>meetups with potential school shooters

Yeah, I don't know.
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>>18104024
I see, but was the girl or the dudes looking for relationships
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>>18103949
How old are you? I'm curious as whether it backs my theory that geeks/nerds these days are of a higher social skill.
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>>18104026
How can you be a school shooter if you've been out of school for six years?

The only person in any kind of education at Texas Nuggetfest 2017 was the underageB& who volunteered the location... only for it to become known later that he lied to his folks about how many people would be showing up and it went about as bad as you'd expect, with the grandfather yelling for everyone to get off his land (all 80 people) and they all had to fuck off, no matter how far they had travelled.

It would have been a perfectly decent meet otherwise. The rest have gone swimmingly. I showed up to one several years ago and had a great time, but it was only like eight people. Would do it again. 4chan meets usually go better than you'd expect.

Unless it's /fit/.

>>18104035
Let me break it down.
>Girl goes to group for hobby
>Gets bf, but does so elsewhere under completely different circumstances irrelevant to hobby
>Guys involved in hobby never had a shot to begin with
Simple enough?
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>>18104048
25.
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>>18104049
>Simple enough?
I got that, just was a bit confused on why the girl made the thread/post about it.

>>18104054
Hmm...I thought you were gonna say 20 or something. Are you going these events now or are you talking about something way back?
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>>18104049
I'm thinking the
>get a hobby
meme advice is for exactly that
basically it's something to talk about at a bar so you seem interesting to other people, who are no more interesting than you are to begin with
i think i hate people
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>>18103949
>>18104054
>25

You've actually put a bit of a damper when you mentioned your age. I'm only 2 years older.
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>>18104080
>b urself
>get /fit/
and now
>get a hobby

Man.
>>
>>18104088
it's like they think because doing those things can be classified as action items it's not as bad as just b urself

so that's the thing with hobbies
the people there just don't give a shit anymore
they couldn't care less if the people standing in front of them exploded into a fine mist, they are there for the hobby
it is an absolutely idiotic idea to try and make friends from a hobby
but also, people in their mid to late twenties who are looking for friends are just kind of dumb, like they have no historical frame of reference, or think because it's the current year that life for them should be different than it was even 50 years ago
I am baffled as to why grown adults need "friends"
>>
>>18104131
>I am baffled as to why grown adults need "friends"

Spending the majority of your time alone is not fun. What's wrong trying to find someone who shares your interests?
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>>18104131
>but also, people in their mid to late twenties who are looking for friends are just kind of dumb, like they have no historical frame of reference, or think because it's the current year that life for them should be different than it was even 50 years ago
Wat?
>>
Anyone else tired of being a nerd?

I work as a DBA but I just want to drop the IT world behind and do something more fulfilling like a trade. I'm tired of the nerdy ass hobbies, I'm tired of dealing with nerds, and I'm tired of dealing with Indian people.
>>
>>18104706
>Anyone else tired of being a nerd?

Not really, more tired of being socially inept.
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>>18094852
They don't know how to joke, they just insult you to your face and say, "I'm kidding". What's not to hate?
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>>18094852
I don't, I just don't have much in common with them.
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>>18104131
>I am baffled as to why grown adults need "friends"

A lotta good jobs require networking and good social skills. Being friends with people tends to help with that.
>>
>>18102837
To be quite honest, the best I could find was to join up with a couple of the sporadic group outings the individual groups had. This was '98, they didn't even have phones in the residence halls (they put them in while I was there in Mary Gees). Some of what I remember as chronic disorganization might have just been a small public university not having its shit completely together.
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>>18105412
>outings
Where'd you go?
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>>18105820
Drinking. It was Leicester in the 90s and there were pub nights at the main uni, but sometimes there was the Ratcliffe Road Bar (The Rat Bar)
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>>18105828
>Drinking
A little less spectacular than I thought.

Did they even have decent-sized cons in the UK, in the 90s?
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>>18106400
Anime wasn't nearly as common then as it is now. It was impossible to propagate. People were still trading VHS tapes from a box under the table at comic book shows. Unless you had an .Edu connection, you weren't downloading full movies on the reg (and I served for a movie channel on IRC at the time). Anime culture in the US is relatively new.
>>
>>18106417
In the UK, sorry, but yeah, also the US, and the west generally. When CD burners got common and Internet got fast, that's when anime started to get big worldwide.
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>>18106417
I remember the small range from manga entertainment. That little intro they had is only made up of a handful of films I found out later.
>>
>>18104131
So what do you do instead?
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>>18094827

I think the Internet has always been the way and it probably still is.

I've witnessed a lot of anime fan groups arise and fall. Most of the anime fan groups you can find on Facebook start organizing gatherings after some time. Of course, there are huge open groups with ~3k members (but maybe 300 of them are active; there are both weebs and "hardcore anime fans)". "Hardcore anime fans" tend to get annoyed by 13yo weebs, so they create their own groups. You should probably look for one of these, but you might have some problems "tearing through the ranks" initially. These groups also have some meetings, and since the average member age is higher they usually go to pubs. They also meet on conventions.

If you're an artist, try deviantArt; for your IT geekiness, there's a shitload of IRC channels you can join. I know the artists organize meetings... the IT guys prefer to sit in their basements (unless we're talking about webdev shit, then no, there are Meetups and all this startup crap).

Anime got so popular that the cool, interesting people stopped coming to conventions because of the influx of edgy 13yo "lesbian" girls, cosplayers, normies and children who like e-sports. I usually see the same people on convention attractions. I think my going to conventions is a habit; I sometimes have fun, but it's not what it used to be.
I wish I was born in the times when there weren't a lot of anime fans, anime distribution was scarce, there were fanzines and VHS with random anime with shit dubs and subs.

Oh, and a majority of these interesting anime fans is probably taken by now.
>>
>>18107475
>I wish I was born in the times when there weren't a lot of anime fans, anime distribution was scarce, there were fanzines and VHS with random anime with shit dubs and subs.

I think I was born exactly in the wrong time (and wrong place). Too late for the 90s stuff and too early for the 00s mainstream weebs.
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>>18107793
I know what you mean... I missed a lot of things - playing Pokemon with link cables, a couple of good PC games coming out, the whole WoW hype, MMOs, anime conventions with copy rooms (because the majority of people didn't have Internet access), swapping VHS, computer programming before the advent of webdev & startups, servers set up in university dormitories, (...)
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>>18107860
Sorta, I guess for me it was more being in the wrong area at the time, cos I was around for the 90s things.

>random anime with shit dubs
You mean the streamline dubs? I still think they're the best, a lot more natural sounding sentences and you could tell the VAs were having fun doing it.
>>
>>18105001
Fucking this. Most of them are the same, talk constant shit about anyone who isn't within earshot, constantly touch other people like fucking creeps, do what you just mentioned as if its funny.
>>
You can still join clubs. Can you go to college? Ask if you can join in on such clubs as programming study groups, security pentesting clubs, and other such things. That's one method. But understand, you have to show interest or you'll most definitely be shunned and not have a good time. You have to WANT to do these things, to actually care about the activities these "geeks" and "nerds" do. And as such, don't shame them on things that seem "nerdy" or "geeky". I know that sounds simple, but some people need this reminder.

Socialize! Geeks and nerds are still capable of socializing, just in a weird way. Ask them questions, what they're working on, how their day's been, what kind of funny things have they been checking out recently - game interests... that sort of thing. Again, showing genuine interest is a surefire way to integrate.

Best of luck anon. Hope you reel in some nerdcircles.
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>>18108284
>I know that sounds simple, but some people need this reminder.

Err, most people on this thread fit into the category of nerd and/or geek.
>>
>>18108329
I didn't actually glance over this thread before posting, I'll admit
But in my short experience with /adv/, everyone's looking for gf advice, so I figure everyone were the type of people to scorn this culture.
>>
>>18107939
My country got random anime with random dubs (for example, French dub). That's what I was referring to.

>>18108284
>programming study groups
mostly webdev shit nowadays
>>
>>18108284
We're not normies dude.
>>
>>18108353
I know, it's pretty awful. I hate webdevelopment with a passion. I'm an architecture dev myself, so I can't find anyone with similar... styles as mine for learning and programming. The closest guy I could relate with is Terry A Davis and hooo boy I would not want to be a close pal with him. I'm surprised I haven't developed psychiatric problems considering the metric tons of stress I go through on a day to day basis. But hey, whatever lol rofl right
>>
>>18108353
Which country?

I know we used to have manga films in the UK late at night on Channel 4 for a short while in the 90s.
>>
>>18108364
Mhm, the old hacking stuff. I enjoy writing scripts and stuff like that, but I'm probably too late to ride the sysadmin wave and too inexperienced to join the webdev crap. The fact all this webdev stuff changes every half a year ("Angular is soooo 2016") doesn't help.
You reminded me I wanted to try coding something in TempleOS/HolyC.

>>18108369
Poland. We had a couple of anime on public television channels and there was one game/anime TV channel.
A lot of people watched Dragon Ball on a public television channel, which was licensed from RTL7 France.
Anime wasn't popular at all, so there were no official releases - if you were an anime fan back then, you'd be dripping if you heard someone got a shit-quality copied VHS with a random anime (yes, random, even the shitty ones). So I heard.
Even the typical "hood" people sometimes remember Dragon Ball and will beat you if you say it's shit.
>>
>>18108383
Code that shit, my dude, go for it. TempleOS needs some love.
>>
>>18108383
>Even the typical "hood" people sometimes remember Dragon Ball and will beat you if you say it's shit.

I think it's kinda unique to the US for people to hate that kinda stuff. Everybody liked Dragonball (Z) when it was on sky and cable in the UK, even on the estates.
>>
>>18108390
Sure thing, you too anon! Godspeed!

>>18108443
Everyone liked it here as well. The "hood" people usually laugh at anime fans, but they can't deny Dragon Ball has played a big part in their own childhoods.
US will always hate stuff like that, because they had everything from the start I guess.
>>
>>18108383
>Poland

I've only met one anon IRL, knew him from work, he was polish. Interesting and funny guy, (knew a lotta nazi and offensive jokes though he was never outright offensive), and visited 4chan and the polish equivalent. Unfortunately he was only ay workplace for a few months.
>>
>ITT:Meetups

Has anyone tried this? Like from scratch, as in no friends to start with?
>>
>>18108989
Oh, that sounds really Polish. What job was it, BTW?

>>18109473
Me. I went to a couple of programming language ones. There was a lot of people and there were open talks and presentations conducted by people from programming companies. If you want to say something during a presentation, you either have to be an expert, or be really extroverted. Average people (like me, even if they're extroverts) end up alone in a crowd.
>>
>>18110705
>What job was it, BTW?

Stacking shelves in a supermarket.
>>
>>18094852
Having your little niche being invaded by people who had no interest in it 10-15 years ago, is a little irritating.
>>
>>18111756
Every fucking normie loves anime now.
>>
Can you even go to these meetups if your interest in anime has waned?
>>
>>18099891
>history, vidya, failed marriage.
My nigga, sounds like we'd be bros
>>
>>18094827
I too would like to know, I mean being 2 weeks away have taught me that work is the only place I have any real social contact and that's with the bare minimun of common interests.
>>
>>18105313
no, being friendLY helps a little with that, and only with the right people
trying to make friends at the gunpla competition will not get you the sweet referral you are looking for

>>18106995
i work 40 hours a week
a third of the time in a week is taken up by sleep
work out 3 times a week
throw in cooking, hygiene, errands, and that's the lion's share of my time
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