Am I an asshole?

I used to think I was a massive asshole at work, but then I got a job with people who were better educated and more introverted, and then I realized I'd previously been working with people who just hated me and were deeply insecure.

>>18089254
Argument consists of premises and a conclusion. Conclusions on their own lead nowhere without interlocutor's desire to find the premises. To challenge something, you need to undermine the premises, or the process by which conclusion is derived (find fallacies, that is), which also requires knowing the premises. To convince someone, you need to introduce and agree on the premises, and derive the conclusion.

it's possible you sound like an asshole but it's more likely that you're working with people who can't handle opposing viewpoints
try being overly considerate next time they talk to you and see how they take it

>>18089254
yes, you're an asshole. Lighten up and don't take stuff so seriously. Instead of offer up your opinion in response, ask them to elaborate and try to find good points about theirs. Learn how to listen and don't try to be right all the time.

>>18089254
You and me are twins. I feel like I found the holy grail. Wanna KIK? I will argue about anything, because it helps me understand my own positions. I am great at mapping out arguments and pointing out flaws. People who identify closely with their beliefs do not appreciate it. Yes, anon, you are an asshole. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Learn to control it, though, or else you will make others suffer unintentionally and you will suffer, too.

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>>18089305
>when you have outreasoned everyone around you to the point that they have nothing left to tell you that you didn't already know

>>18089283
But a lot of belief rests either on faith or a strong desire for things to be a certain way...so I'm not sure I agree with what you said. I can say for sure that most people do not like having their premises attacked. OP, when you offend, apologize early and often.

Yeah you're being pretty pedantic. The reason you get gifts on Christmas to begin with is because of a religious tradition.

Likewise I don't think your second example is really that effective. It sounds like you're trying to say that maintaining freedom of speech is more important than the downsides of open internet communication, but again you stick to weirdly specific stuff.

I think combined it comes across like you're arguing with them for the sake of arguing. People typically know, especially when it's these outbursts at the workplace, that they don't have to take people superliterally. Like how you wouldn't comment that you can be happy that you have a job to begin with, or that there's factory jobs, if someone complains that this is the worst job ever.

It's probably the case that your co-workers say stuff to initiate conversation for the sake of having social interaction. You in turn respond too seriously and too critically and basically punish them for speaking to you.

>>18089368
Or just keep your mouth shut knowing full well you could destroy them.

I usually just make light jokes about it. Somebody uses the word hatespeech and I say "Yeah, screw those heretics."

Somebody says racism is wrong I just say that that's a judgemental way to think.

If you let them know that you're entirely neutral then they can't even figure out how to react because most idiots subscribe wholly to the two party system. Most people are desperate for a group identity in general.

You're probably just an underachiever. No offense, but mechanics are usually not the brightest. Don't expect anything in the way of intellectual discourse from them. And women, are obviously women.

The first poster is right. When i worked in a restaurant literally everyone hated me. I got a job where everyone was in college and we all got along great. The tards want to bring you down with them.

>>18089380
But I don't argue to destroy people. I do it to both challenge received wisdom and to open my mind to new and different ways of thinking. I would love to have a conversation with someone who identifies as what we pejorotively term an "SJW," but every time I try, I end up pissing people off. I don't have a problem with the back-and-forth and I don't mind challenging people. I do not mean to attack them personally, but 10/10 that is how it comes across. Then I get called names. I hang out on /b/ all the time...it doesn't bother me. But then I realize that I needlessly upset people, and...feelsbadman.

OP, I mean this seriously...have you ever been diagnosed with any form of autism? I am very smart, but have poor social skills and do not look people in the eye when I talk to them. I've never been diagnosed, but I score high enough on self-tests that i wonder. Maybe you have Aspergers? I don't mean that in a mean way.

>>18089385
mechanics arent bright? dude you have to have a good memory and concept of engineering as far as how a car works.. the mechanics at my fleet shop make $40 an hour.

>>18089392
You can't argue with reason with people of that school of thought. If you want to understand them better then read Kant and Marx. They're too wrapped up in Newspeak to coherently defend themselves so they simply get angry.

>>18089392
In real life, adults arguing typically do not fling extreme viewpoints at one another but rather try to understand each other and then add something else to it.

Eg in the first scenario, you could've said: "Yeah Christmas is a religious celebration, but by now it has been celebrated for so long that it has a place culturally whether or not you pay attention to the religious aspects. I never grew up in a Christian household, but I have fond childhood memories of this holiday and being together with my loved ones that make it meaningful to me nonetheless."

In the second case, you could've said that you don't think that's a viable strategy because it endangers the right to free speech, but that you do think there could be more potential to make internet a friendlier place or whatever you personally can still believe.

Yes they are not (if you paraphrased their viewpoints accurately) doing this either, but these are viewpoints they hold dear. If you can rise above your feelings, be the bigger person and acknowledge that while also adding to it.
Essentially, you are saying that you want to learn and converse, but the way you talk sounds like you don't want that at all, you just want to win and shut them up and feel smart.

>>18089368
>belief rests on faith
If you suppose faith to be unshakable, then that case has nothing to do with arguments, and OP's workmates are the worst kind of people.
>a strong desire for things to be a certain way
If they can't agree on something fundamental like "needless suffering needs to be reduced", they are mortal enemies. If they can, the specifics of achieving that goal are up for discussion.
>most people do not like having their premises attacked
No shit. I'm not giving OP tactics specific to his situation, I'm breaking down the fundamentals of arguing, since he gets into pointless viewpoint exchanges.

>>18089254
Lol 4 people get on my level im hated by like 60+ people at work

>>18089450
This your themesong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR4_v9AqgGM&sns=em

>>18089412
But that is not fair to them, because they are people. The challenge is to dissent while seeming to affirm and validate. It's a heckuva challenge, but if you can pull it off, you will have a much better sense of where they are coming from. The way they talk about you is the way they talk about Trumpets...so let's be real. You have to adapt your message to your audience. Here is what I know so far, "Yes, I am a racist, misogynist piece of shit, can we get back to the point please?" is not a winning angle.

>>18089415
I am not OP. I am the guy that wants to be OPs best friend. Anyone who loves to argue for the sake of it, please KIK me at:

tell_me_your_problem

Please. I need to be validated, too. That's hard when every online interaction provokes the Internet equivalent of a "Who farted?" facial expression.

>>18089429
I agree with everything you said except "the specifics are up for discussion." That is what I find most infuriating. People tend to believe what is convenient. I'm no exception. But I would love to be shown the error of my ways.

>>18089450
To quote Weezy: "Get on my level/You can't get on my level/You gonna need a spaceship or a ladder that's forever..."

Well done, Mr. Yiannopolous, Jr!

>>18089560
The hell? You disagree that the sub-goals of the biggest goal there is, down to 'who takes out the trash today', are up for discussion?

>>18089574
To use a canned line that I love: "I didn't say that. *You* said that."

>>18089611
Don't be fucking annoying. You've quoted me in a statement. I've elaborated the quote to reach mutual understanding, because the statement makes no sense to me.

>>18089254
if you go around using words like "nigger" you shouldn't be surprised if everyone hates you

free speech gives you the right to say what you want, but it doesn't mean people have to like it or accept it. it doesn't protect you from the consequences.

>>18089254
Nobody likes a smartass

>>18089625
I can't help being annoying. I *am* annoying. Your best bet is to ignore me if you can't accept that. You mis-extended the quote and applied it to something that I never would have said. To my mind "if they can [agree upon premises], then the specifics are up for debate" is the way things should be, not the way they are. I think a lot of beliefs are simply prescriptions for other people's behavior that are unrealistic, and therefore unachievable. Take poverty, for example. Some people think charity is the answer. Some people think that charity does not solve poverty. Does this make sense? It's not about the noble premise "let's reduce suffering" which, in this case both your bleeding heart and your Grinch can agree on. It's the solution that informs the belief. And the belief is intractable.