Conflicted about masculinity

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>>18083606

>being able to code websites is like getting cheated on by your wife
>working in an office is like having gay sex.

>I could get a job if I wanted. I am capable. I am educated. I could get a job earning quite good money if I wanted to.

You sound like a Californian who is in deep denial about the state of their economy. Stay in California and overthrow your communist government instead of expecting the other 49 states to take you in as refugees while you demand the horrid system you fled from.

>>18083616
lmao, Phoenician here

Californians get out and take the Chicago trash with you

I've always had this chaotic side where I hate the comfort that modern life brings and instead long for some sort of historic fantasy where I could prove myself physically in combat or be put into a life or death scenario. The things that are important and meaningful for me usually involve risk, blood, sweat and pushing myself to physical limits. I suppose I feel that the modern world offers very few opportunities to express these desires and as such I just feel my potential, my youth and vitality slipping away.

I drink too much at parties because I feel alienated and I want to become chaotic and lose the normal social boundaries which make things so safe and nice. I've had various drug problems because I can't come to terms with this and I've had to replace them with obsessive exercise and other hobbies.

So I had an office job for 8 years which was very well paid and I've a degree and I found myself getting increasingly aggressive, swole and unreasonable. I became embarrassed of my job, supposed to be taking pleasure in the niceties of different shoes and watches and briefcases amongst older impotent men who's physical power was never tested.

I quit a took a manual job in a very masculine environment. Every day physically exhausts me and I absolutely love it. It is the kind of workplace culture where HR doesn't do the bitch thing, guys just lose their tempers and sometimes fight and people get shouted at and you have a clear view of the realities of working guys doing their thing under stresses and trying to hold onto their notion of respect and dignity. I fucking love it, out there with my tools and silent thoughts, nobody to fuck with me, the silent nods of appreciation when you've done something physically insane to bring the job in on time so everybody doesn't have their evening ruined. When the boss is screaming and people are threatening to walk or knock him out and tense apologies are exchanged with rounds of drinks and stoic cowboy talk.

>>18083620
That's two entirely different kinds of trash you're talking about.

Chicago is an eternal war zone; the government allows every kind of violence to happen while selling-the-problem to keep getting themselves reelected.

California is just hardline communism. California has plenty of violence and it also sells the problem rather than the solution, but starvation will take you before guns in the gun free zone will.

>>18083626
Compare this to my previous role where I had to chair meetings to discuss the improper footwear of grown men over several sessions involving multiple female human resources managers and assistants taking notes and trying to accommodate for the stress the teams were under having to deal with such a difficult situation.

Like the shit was seriously embarrassing. Also I can finally relate to my father who as a mining engineer worked his ass off every day under duress in order to get shit done. Like before how could he understand passive aggressive email culture?

>went to gym for less than a year
>thinks he's /fit/
>then quits for a year
You're a massive pussy and you talk like a faggot. Half ass hitting the gym for less than a year is nothing. That's barely enough time to actually understand what you're doing, how to do it properly, and actually seeing a change. This alone disgusts me. Toss in the other drivel about being able to get any job making good money but you don't want to and you sound like a giant faggot.

>>18083644
Shitloads of different things happen in a year; if you're extremely long-lived then a year is one percent of your life.

That said, OP shouldn't have quit. Quitting means it's not part of your life anymore, and exercise should be a part of your life until you truly cannot do it anymore. Mind you, there are homeless amputee bodybuilders.

>>18083606
Your internal definition of masculinity is very narrow. I'm sure we can agree that the media has reduced acceptable masculinity to sports and nothing more, but reality is not reflected by our media and it's agenda.

Masculinity is task and skill orientation. Go and be the best web dev. you can be if it's what you enjoy. It's probably when you're most attractive too. Don't limit yourself into the box idiots propagate via shit on TV and youtube.

It's better to be a good programer than an average gym goer.

>>18083606
>Am I crazy?
No, not at all. There's nothing pathological about your thought process. You're just insecure and really, really immature.

Also, though I'm pretty sure you'll deny this, it sounds to me like you're a little bit lazy and in denial about being lazy. Just get a fucking job, dude.

>I could get a job if I wanted
>I am not applying for jobs
>I see web development as cucky
>It made me think that becoming "alpha" was the most important thing in existence.
>sometimes I think about committing crime, because I seem to be obsessed with this notion of alphaness
>it is better to die as a man than to accept being a faggot, stuck in a desk job, being a little faggot
I want you to reread these highlights over a good five or six times. Do you see how ridiculous you sound?

Again: get a fucking job, dude. Join the military if you want to, that's a fine career path, just do your research first and make sure you actually want to do the work that'll be required of you -- if you join it because you think it'll make you a big fucking man then I can promise you you'll wash the fuck out. If you decide against that, then get a job as a web designer, earn some money, and then get a girlfriend and a handful of intellectually and physically demanding hobbies, not necessarily in that order. I can promise you won't have the energy then to worry about any of this stuff. Obsessing over your own (perceived lack of) masculinity is ridiculous. Do you think serious, accomplished, confident, "masculine" men think about that shit all the time? No, they're too busy living life.

And the most important piece of advice of all? Get off this fucking website and don't come back until the word "alpha" makes you laugh and describing a completely normal professional field as "cucky" sounds like something only a neurotic 18-year-old would do.

I'm being completely serious right now. The shit on this website is poison and you're not handling it well at all.

>And the most important piece of advice of all? Get off this fucking website and don't come back until the word "alpha" makes you laugh and describing a completely normal professional field as "cucky" sounds like something only a neurotic 18-year-old would do.

Shit just got real.

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>>18083609
You know what I mean don't you? I'll be honest with you - when I was a kid I was good at science, then I rebelled in my teen years (got into smoking, drugs, whatever) because I hated the idea of being a nerd (pic related)

I think I've always been fucking insecure about this to be honest

>>18083616
Nah I'm British. Also, let's be honest, the technological economy is here to stay. The immigration debate is obviously up for grabs, and I do think limits will come in at some point (our PM seems to want them - I hope she follows through).

But yes, technology is not going anywhere, it's far too profitable. This is just like the Industrial Revolution all over again.

>>18083626
>So I had an office job for 8 years which was very well paid and I've a degree and I found myself getting increasingly aggressive, swole and unreasonable. I became embarrassed of my job, supposed to be taking pleasure in the niceties of different shoes and watches and briefcases amongst older impotent men who's physical power was never tested.
This is exactly what happened to me, except I was only in my job (web dev) for 1.5 years. But yes, going to the gym made me aggressive and unreasonable, and embarrassed of my job. So I ragequit in the end, and now I'm NEET.

>I quit a took a manual job in a very masculine environment. Every day physically exhausts me and I absolutely love it. It is the kind of workplace culture where HR doesn't do the bitch thing, guys just lose their tempers and sometimes fight and people get shouted at and you have a clear view of the realities of working guys doing their thing under stresses and trying to hold onto their notion of respect and dignity. I fucking love it, out there with my tools and silent thoughts, nobody to fuck with me, the silent nods of appreciation when you've done something physically insane to bring the job in on time so everybody doesn't have their evening ruined. When the boss is screaming and people are threatening to walk or knock him out and tense apologies are exchanged with rounds of drinks and stoic cowboy talk.
This sounds fucking awesome. Your whole post I relate to a hell of a lot; I also have a degree, and I relate to pretty much everything you've described; feeling chaotic, wanting to just go "fuck social boundaries", and I expressed that desire a lot in my teenage years by drinking / doing drugs / etc.

So it's awesome that you did something about it. Maybe I should do this. Can I ask what field you've gone into?

>>18083644
>>18083649
You're both sort of missing the point.

Firstly, I never claimed I was /fit/.

Secondly, the point is what this guy has picked up on - >>18083626 - that having a desk job, and then wanting to be an alpha, sort of come into conflict. Having a desk job means you have to behave a certain way. When I was going to the gym, and working this job, I found it very hard to reconcile both lives, as it were - the reason being, I suppose, that the extra testosterone from lifting weights makes you more aggressive. But of course, office environments don't like aggression.

I don't think it is possible to reconcile those lives, really. I think I *either* have to go and join the military, or do something else that is a physical job, OR do the web dev stuff. And when I present it like that to myself, I think that maybe I should just apply to the military.

>>18083656
>Masculinity is task and skill orientation. Go and be the best web dev. you can be if it's what you enjoy. It's probably when you're most attractive too. Don't limit yourself into the box idiots propagate via shit on TV and youtube.
I don't know if I agree. My ideas now aren't based on stuff i've watched; it's based on my real world experience.

Also I wouldn't say I enjoy web dev anymore. Ideally I want to do a job that makes me physically strong, to be honest.

>It's better to be a good programer than an average gym goer.
Is it? If programming offered a more sure chance of having lots of children, then maybe I'd decide to commit to it, but when I see all these statistics saying how educated people don't have children anymore (and I just sense the mood among people my age - my own friends tell me they don't want children, which I just can't understand), it makes me think I need to go and do something different if I actually want to have a family.

>>18083659
>just do your research first and make sure you actually want to do the work that'll be required of you -- if you join it because you think it'll make you a big fucking man then I can promise you you'll wash the fuck out.
I do think about that. Part of me thinks "yes it would be awesome to be in the military, you get to travel to all these places, you get to be outside, outside of an office, exerting yourself, and also the camaraderie as well would be awesome"
But then I think "am I actually more obsessed with the idea of being alpha, than I am interested in the military itself"

>Do you think serious, accomplished, confident, "masculine" men think about that shit all the time?
No, I think that they go and do shit in the world - HOWEVER, I also think that some people make stupid decisions, going into jobs just because they're *easy*, which means they never challenge themselves, and thus they never achieve anything with their lives

>Get off this fucking website and don't come back until the word "alpha" makes you laugh
I do think about that

>and describing a completely normal professional field as "cucky" sounds like something only a neurotic 18-year-old would do.
I disagree with you there - people ALWAYS think of "IT people" as nerds. Nerds who deserve getting shit on in the corporate environment. Nerds who won't stand up for themselves. I remember going out to a pub with two of my mates one time, and one of asked this girl to guess what jobs we each had. She had to a guess a few times with each of them, but for me, she straight away said "IT". And I thought, fuck.

>The shit on this website is poison and you're not handling it well at all.
I do think you are correct about that.

>>18083741
>I disagree with you there - people ALWAYS think of "IT people" as nerds etc etc
>[anecdote with the girl at the bar]
Mind if I ask how old you are?

I get the impression that you're in your early twenties, or mid-twenties at the latest (of course, you can't be that much older than that if the military is still an option). For the great majority of adults IT shit is just a fucking job like any other. It's 2017. Most people who make decent money (i.e. most educated adults) have relatively "nerdy" jobs, and that goes for men and women.

I don't know what that girl you met at the bar is going to end up doing but odds are she's not going to be a model or an actress or an aviatrix, she's going to end up sitting at a desk in an air-conditioned office (that is, if she's lucky enough to get a degree and get a decent career at all) and she's going to end up marrying somebody who does the same, and contrary to what people on here are gonna tell you, no, she's not necessarily going to end up cheating on him with some black dude with a fifty-foot dick because he's not "alpha" enough. Once you enter your "real" adulthood most people learn to differentiate people from their jobs. As for the people you'll meet before then, people like that girl etc -- really, who gives a shit? Turning your life around to accommodate their college-kid expectations is about the least masculine thing imaginable.

If you don't look and act like a pushover, nobody will assume you are one because you happen to work with computers. People aren't one-dimensional. You can climb mountains, geek out to anime, shoot a pistol every weekend, spend an hour every night on 4chan, play the violin, design webpages, earn a black belt in judo, play chess, go to bars and watch lots of porn without there being any contradiction in your personality. People pick up on that eventually.

>>18083729
Your thoughts are shaped entirely by circumstance and the other people around you. Even if you don't watch TV, those around you do etc. It's a fallacy to think that it doesn't influence you in some way.

As for the latter. That's beyond my ability to discuss. You know yourself and your motivation better than anyone else; thus the if you enjoy it caveat in the first post.

>>18083792
I'm 25. So you guessed about right.

>contrary to what people on here are gonna tell you, no, she's not necessarily going to end up cheating on him with some black dude with a fifty-foot dick because he's not "alpha" enough.
How do you know? Cheating happens all the time these days - my dad cheated on my mum. Cheating is a fact of life I reckon.

>As for the people you'll meet before then, people like that girl etc -- really, who gives a shit? Turning your life around to accommodate their college-kid expectations is about the least masculine thing imaginable.
I agree there. But let me add a bit more to this worry - as I said in this post - >>18083729 - educated people aren't having kids these days. Also the childbirth rate among criminals is higher than among those never convicted of a crime. Even among my friends, some of them say they never want kids; to be honest, I think that's why I've stopped talking to them. Because I just don't understand that. I know that I want children, and these days, the educated millennial dipshits working office jobs in the city apparently don't want kids. Personally, I reckon it might partly be because today's women just aren't inspired to have lots of kids with a nerdy, beta, weedy millennial "man".

And I watch the TV, and I see immigrant families, and people on benefits, having tons of children. I was in a shop the other day and this big bloke, maybe a criminal, maybe on benefits, maybe a builder, who knows, said he had 7 kids at home. And I thought, what the fuck is the point of the office rat-race, when there's no chance you'll have anything CLOSE to 7 kids?

This is why I think to myself, whether I go and become a criminal, or join the military, I have to just become alpha, because that's the only way I'm gonna get a woman to wanna have my kids. Maybe I'm wrong. Eh.

>>18083808
>Your thoughts are shaped entirely by circumstance and the other people around you. Even if you don't watch TV, those around you do etc. It's a fallacy to think that it doesn't influence you in some way.
Okay you're right there. But anyway, I think I have come to have the opinion that masculinity is actually objective. Basically, the more testosterone you have, the more masculine you are; which is actually true, from a biological perspective. More test = more masculine physical features.

Yeah I think I've been consumed by insecurity I guess. But I can't get out of it... I'm obsessed with the idea that I *have* to prove myself, I *have* to go and commit crime, go to jail so I can get tough, OR go join the military; and I can't give myself a reason why I shouldn't do these things. In my mind, I think the only reason I am not doing them is *fear*, and thus, I should stop being a faggot, and do something impulsive, reckless, like the things I mentioned. Because, as I say, if I don't, I'm a faggot who won't procreate.

That's my thought process right now, which sounds stupid I guess, but I am completely convinced of it.

>>18083954
Well you've admitted to your insecurity. Now you've gotta ask yourself. When am I most attractive as a person to be around? What task am I doing? Does it make me happy? What makes me happy that isn't dependant on others?

>>18083986
Or I could commit crime, which in my mind, is the most alpha thing to do. Sure, it involves risks, but at least I wouldn't be a faggot. Maybe it is better to die as a man.

>>18084023
Sure it might get you laid, but not necessarily children or anything.

>>18084023
The whole alpha/beta thing is silly, but if you really want to subscribe to it then you should know the most alpha thing you do could is literally not give a shit about what other think of you as or what defines you.

>>18084025
>Sure it might get you laid, but not necessarily children or anything.
Well my thinking is that millennial office people don't even want kids anymore. Meanwhile, people on the dole pop them out like nobody's business. And criminals as well. Criminals statistically have more children than non-criminals, and that cheeses me off. Why should I have to work, like a chump, paying my taxes, which are spent on a criminal's child - criminals who do whatever the fuck they like? They don't pay their taxes.

Maybe I have been way too sucked into the whole of insecurity... maybe I should recognise that whether you succeed at criminality is largely down to luck. But then, in my mind, it's not. I've convinced myself that if I were to try HARD at criminality, just keep trying until I died, then I would make it work. Just fight, fight as hard as humanly possible, until death. That's how life operates in the wild isn't it?

>>18084033
I don't think that's true, I think the most alpha guys are the ones who are fucking all the women and inseminating them. And to a degree, of course they care about what others think of them; their success depends on them being able to strike fear into other males, and also on them being able to convince women that they're an eligible male (but their appearance alone should do that)

Shameless bump

>>18083606
Want to feel like a man. GET A JOB. You want it to be physically challenging? Go to a temp agency and tell them you need work and want the most physically intense, manual labor positions they have. Construction laborer is a good safe pick. And why be a criminal? Why not be a cop? Then you have to arrest criminals and not have the advantage of plotting your crimes. The acts of most crimes are not manly OP.

You are like a blend of crazy and stupid.

Im in college finishing my degree and looking to get into web dev/font end dev and eventually go full stack. I've been working out since age 18. I played several sports in HS as well.

I love being a nerd and good with computers. I also don't look like a nerd at all and I know people outside of my degree/field don't give a shit much about what I do. When I talk to people I talk to them about what we have in common. If I hang out with my friend who is an accountant, we talk about skiing or other shit we have in common. Work will come up if someone mentions something they accomplished.

Im outdoorsy as fuck too, all my hobbies are in the outdoors.

Wed dev isn't cucky. You want to get cucked? Date white girls who have been with black guys, that's how you get fucking cucked you half wit. Don't go for white girls that are into interracial shit, act like you have a spine and you will be fine!

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>>18083606
Jesus, I hope you are trolling...this thread...jeez

Anyway, assuming that all of what you wrote is true:

STFU. Most jobs suck. Do your time, make your money, and THEN enjoy your time off. Work is called work for a reason.

And really, web development is a good field that can pay big $$$ when you are good at it. Really good demand for it too.

Why do you have to be so alpha anyways? Are you trying to hide from something???

Think about it.

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>>18084600

>>18084645
It's some grade B bait. It won't get over 100 replies.

>>18083606
Yes because there's nothing more alpha than an unemployed NEET fuck. The military is literally going around having middle aged fucks tell you what to do, and if they feel like you're a piece of shit then they'll treat you like one and you can't say anything. That's the definition of a beta.

>>18083606

> Becoming alpha.

Adding a few muscles doesn't make you alpha, it just makes you a muscular nerd like Mark Zuckerberg.

> Masculinity

The only people obsessed about their "masculinity" are faggots. You might consider reviewing your sexual orientation.

>>18084600

>You want to get cucked? Date white girls who have been with black guys, that's how you get fucking cucked you half wit. Don't go for white girls that are into interracial shit

You lost me. Its a strange trend around here that people around here can be so reasonable at first but then do a 180 and go all Hitler-youth at the end.

>>18084750
white girls who go interracial are looking for something I don't have, I assume a large penis or something I have yet to put my finger on. While I'm not insecure with myself or penis size(6.5" good for a white guy), I know I can't compete if she's into that interracial shit. It's like a girl looking for a sugar daddy/gold digger, Im not a multi-millionaire. Financially I will do ok as a developer, but Im not up to a gold diggers standards.

just a personal observation and it's what I avoid when looking for a girl. I know what I am and what I got, so I seek girls who are ok with that.

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>>18084565
>The acts of most crimes are not manly OP.
Hm, I dunno. You familiar with Varg Vikernes (pic)? He killed a dude and burned down churches - now look at him, he has six children and raises them with his wife on his farm in France.

But anyway it's not just him. Most of my friends have been more rebellious than I have. I guy I know went to prison for assault. I don't know much about his time there, although my mate said it was apparently tough, but who cares, you get through it. I've watched loads of shit on prisons and I think "I could fucking cope with that". Why not do it? Society is fucking bullshit, people who do the right thing, pay their taxes, all this shit, are literally paying for criminals' children through welfare/benefits. Criminals get to do whatever they want. They're the true alphas. Everyone in a job is a beta cuck. That's how I see it. Which is probably stupid. But I don't know how to convince myself that I'm not right about this.

>>18084828
they ever show you a guy getting raped in those prison movies?

Tyrone will be fucking you instead of your wife, enjoy mate.

>>18084600
That sounds awesome man. Sounds like you're doing well. I've lost faith in life like that though.

Why should I work a job to pay taxes, which will fund the existence of criminals, and their children? So they get to exist, and have children, on my dime? While I'm just a cuck in front of a computer screen?

Why shouldn't I just go and commit crime? The only reason not to is *fear* - one should do whatever benefits oneself the most in life. And since criminals statistically have more children, I reckon there's more to gain from being a criminal, than being a millennial dipshit in an office - most millennials today don't even fucking want children. So I reckon my best chance of having the most children possible is if I become a criminal. Why the fuck not.

>>18084846
can confirm Im a millennial and dont want children.

>>18084839
this and go get yourself a butt plug, might as well stretch it out now. They got cute ones that have like a diamond on the end.

You don't sound like a big person, let alone a mentally stable one. You will probably crack in prison real quick. Most people in jail aren't too bright and don't think things through/hesitate they just react. They will notice you don't and it's going to be sexy time after that.

>>18084645
>STFU. Most jobs suck.
Then why work one? Commit crime instead. Criminals have more children than non-criminals. The only reason not to commit crime is fear. If there's more to gain from a criminal life, then there's literally no reason not to do it.

>oh think about other people
I think about myself, because I've been shafted about a billion times, and everybody else thinks about themselves, which is why I think about myself.

>Why do you have to be so alpha anyways? Are you trying to hide from something???
Who doesn't want to be alpha? It's the thing that every male should aspire to be. If you think about your life from an evolutionary perspective, your purpose is to have as many children as possible - be as virile as you can possibly be. So that's what I need to try and do, basically.

>>18084692
Not bait, I'm being serious

>>18084702
It's a chance to prove yourself innit.

>Yes because there's nothing more alpha than an unemployed NEET fuck.
You're right, but working just represents being fucked in the ass, in my opinion.

I used to *like* work, I thought it was rewarding... but I guess several events just made me think I was being fucked in the ass, so now I think "fuck it, I'm done"

>>18084726
>Adding a few muscles doesn't make you alpha, it just makes you a muscular nerd like Mark Zuckerberg.
Zuck definitely is not muscular...

But yes you're right, character is important too 2bh

>The only people obsessed about their "masculinity" are faggots.
Hahaha. Couldn't be more false. In fact it's the opposite - people who say "I'm completely secure in my masculinity" are the ones who are the furthest from being so.

Life's a competition, we're all just competing aren't we. Every guy just does the best they can, and they don't think about it too much, but they DO try and affirm it to themselves, of course, because we're all thinking "Am I respected? Do I command respect or am I being a basic bitch? Am I currently in a good position to fuck chicks?" etc.

>>18084793
I used to be this self-assured, maybe I should go back to this sort of life

E.g.:
>I know what I am and what I got, so I seek girls who are ok with that.
That's how I used to think 2bh

>>18084750
You're a faggot

>>18084926
Then find a job where you're not fucked in the ass. At my job my boss actually treats me like a human being and it feels more like bro time than anything.

Even if you're a business owner you're getting fucked in the ass by your customers.

>>18084839
>>18084854
I'll fight till I'm dead

>>18084987
they will just knock you out and when you wake up you are going to have a headache and ass ache. Rinse and repeat.

>>18083606
lol is it a troll post or just a faggot OP? what a lil puss

>>18084948
True to be fair

>>18084997
I'll work out and fight as much as I need to, just like anybody else

>>18085019
if you go to jail, tyrone will fuck you until you love him. After jail Tyrone will wife you up and you guys will get a farm in France together.

or you could just get a job, but who am i to tell someone how to live their life.

>>18085041
Don't you ever think how unjust it is that people who commit crime still get to have kids; they still succeed? And there are people who bust their ass in jobs, who are paying for these criminals to live?

>>18085148
no I think unfair it is for a child to grow up in that kind of environment and the likely hood of them ending up as a product of it.

IIT: how school shooters and alt-right is made

>>18085156
I was born alt-right. It's not a choice.

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>>18083606
Not caring about masculinity is the most masculine thing you can do.

Women care about too many things, that's why they are all insecure.

>>18085148
>Having kids is part of succeeding

Busting a nut in some woman is winning at life? Having kids outside of when you're financially prepared is fucking suicide. Guess how you get financially prepared.. you get a goddamn job.

>>18085155
Some criminals are succeeding more than you are, right now, they're having more kids than you are, right now.

>>18085358
That's a lie, because every dude is aware of needing to prove himself; every dude is aware that if he doesn't prove himself to at least some degree, he won't be able to get women.

So really, every guy is acutely aware of his masculinity, and actually, it's the most important thing in every guy's life.

Although, of course, at some point you have to get on with life; you have to stop questioning it. You have to become secure in yourself somehow. So yes, at that point, continuing to question it is stupid I guess.

>>18085366
Yes, procreation is the life goal of every organism on this planet; if you don't procreate you're a biological failure, it's as simple as that.

>>18083722
You can be an "alpha male" without being a complee retard that assaults people and commits crime you kow?

>>18084793

>white girls who go interracial are looking for something I don't have

that makes no sense.

>>18085358
>Not caring about masculinity is the most masculine thing you can do.
...No.

It isn't "the most" masculine thing you can do. Calm down with that.

The most masculine thing(s) you can do would be accepting responsibility and not complaining. If you want to think "masculine" by realisic, modern standards - a kond of masculinity that could be applied to the real world, think about your dad from Fallout 3. Never complained. Accepted responsibility. Even gave his life for what he believed in.

>>18086270

I'm not that guy, but you are missing the point. He is an asshole, but the phrase "Not caring about masculinity is the most masculine thing you can do." is actually right.

Being an adult, being a responsible person as you say, is taking charge of your life. You can't let others set your goals and tell you if you are good enough. The pinnacle of Manhood (and womanhood) is living in your own terms.

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>>18086218
>>18086270
>>18086281
>you can be alpha without crime
>being a man is taking responsibility

Let me explain my thinking, and yes I know it's retarded, but let me just explain why I am thinking this.

Of course, if you become a guy with a suit and tie, and you make lots of money in life, then you will be able to have children, and give those children a good future - you can ensure yourself a good legacy on this Earth. I guess this is how people like the Rothschilds have survived on this planet for so long.

At the moment though, I can't get my mind off this idea that I need to get strong/tough. Perhaps the problem is that I started going to the gym at a time when my self-esteem had already taken a hit; also, I went to this bodybuilders gym where some of these guys were literally ANIMALS. Probably on steroids / testosterone / everything.

And it made me think "if I don't become as animalistic as these guys, I will fail"

Maybe I have some mild PTSD from that experience? Although I hate being the sort of faggot that diagnoses themselves with "mental illnesses", but it was a thought that crossed my mind.

>>18086453
You can be big while having a stable job what the fuck is wrong with you?
Half of the guys at my gym work in a bank
If you still need a more "manly" job be a cop or a firefighter or something, but that wont make you more manly. Hearing yuor reasoning is like talking to a prepubescent kid.
Sain shit like "desk job are for cucks" makes you a lot less of a man than actually having a desk job
PTSD works nothing like that btw

>>18086453

Look out the window and see that not all guys with kids are like that. Look out the window and see that not all guys with GFs are like that. Look at the window and see that not all guys that are happy are like that.

Broaden your horizons, mate.

>>18086490
>>18086495
>other people aren't criminals, and still have kids

Okay, but that's not a reason for me to do it.

Every human is just trying to do the best for themselves in life, right?

If I reckon i can be more successful by being a criminal then why shouldn't i do it? If I can have more children by being a thug, then that's what I should do isn't it?

>>18083606
You are not crazy, but your thinking is greatly distorted. Alpha men don't take advantage of others. They are just "cucky betas" who don't give a shit about what other people think about them. Do what makes you happy. Do no harm unto others. If you don't know what will make you happy, then try different things.

>>18086563
>Alpha men don't take advantage of others
Yes they do actually. I know that you have your beliefs about what a "good" man should do, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Life is a competition, unfortunately. For you to succeed, it means others are going to fail; again, that's just an unfortunate truth. If you get a job, it means someone else doesn't get it.

That's just reality. Once you get to a certain age, you realise that. The only logical thing to do, really, is maximise benefit for yourself; that's what we're all doing anyway.

This is why communism doesn't work. We are all competitive; we all want the best for ourselves. So capitalism provides a way in which we can do this.

But I am saying that if I can gain more (which I think I can) by being a criminal, then why shouldn't I do it?

>>18083606
You might want to consider masculinity differently, you picture the mental side of things incorrectly.
A strong mind is that which is not vulnerable or dependent on external factors in order to serve itself satisfactory, a mind which overcomes whatever stands in the way of making its will manifest, including itself if that is the case, as it seems to be with you.

Why do you allow this categorization to dictate and impede your will and actions? Does it serve your will to do so?
You do not wish to be a weakling and yet your perspective is dictated by an external abstraction concocted by others, dictating what you ought to be.

Follow your own will first and foremost, all other considerations are merely decorative.

>>18086619
>Follow your own will first and foremost, all other considerations are merely decorative.
Okay, so if my will is to go out and commit crime, should I do that?

I guess my mental state is that I have given up on reproductively succeeding in a legal way, and I am of the opinion that the best way for me to succeed reproductively would be to go to prison, get tough.

I guess every dude forms his own opinion on what he thinks will be the best way to reproductively succeed in life - whether that's as a businessman, as a firefighter, as a criminal, as a doctor, as a judge, as a benefit-scrounger, whatever.

I just want to know how I can stop obsessing over criminality, and also over masculinity... I've dug myself into this big mental hole, and my two options are:

1) Put on the balaclava that I've bought, go to the local shop, start smashing up shit - possibly start fights, just go fucking mental. See what happens when the police arrive (maybe I'll escape though).

2) Try and take my mind off this bullshit, and apply for jobs.

But if I'm not convinced that 2) will actually be best for me in the long run, why should I do it? How do I convince myself?

I used to speak to my dad about what to do in life, but now he's decided he doesn't give a fuck about his sons, so that sort of sucks.

>>18086640
What is the appeal of crime to you and have you considered that your perception of it may be very different to the actual physical reality and action?

You seem driven to crime or military because you have formed an association of strength built on resentment of normal society.
Know thyself, analyze what drives you and where that drive comes from.
Where did this resentment come from and should you allow your actions and future to be dictated by it?

You want prison or military as ways to move your strength outside of your own control and responsibility. You place both outside yourself because you fail to achieve it on your own.

>>18086553

What? Wasn't this about being an "animal" like the dudes at the gym?

>>18086658
>What is the appeal of crime to you and have you considered that your perception of it may be very different to the actual physical reality and action?
I want to fuck people over because I feel people have fucked me over forever, so why not

And yes I've formed this belief that crime is more virile I guess

>You seem driven to crime or military because you have formed an association of strength built on resentment of normal society.
I agree with that

>Where did this resentment come from
Combination of events which reduced my self-esteem I guess.

>should you allow your actions and future to be dictated by it?
Well that's the million dollar question in my mind. In my opinion, the legal life is a compromise isn't it? People follow the law because crime brings danger and risk, and people like feeling secure. But my thought now is that a) becoming the most virile person you can is the ultimate goal to life, and b) risk shouldn't put one off doing action - if it's the best thing to do, then it shouldn't matter how difficult it is. One should do it anyway.

>You want prison or military as ways to move your strength outside of your own control and responsibility. You place both outside yourself because you fail to achieve it on your own.
Probably true to be honest.

>>18086723
Yes it's about both, sorry, I know I didn't mention crime in the OP, but it's another thought I've been having

But yes it is about that as you say - I was going to the gym with this guy I knew, and I think he liked to fancy himself as stronger than me (I had him beat on leg press, but yeah, he was a bit better at upper body shit)

But yeah, some of the guys at this gym were fucking mental. They must have been on something. I guess because I wanted to compete, wanted to get big, I thought: "hm I should copy those guys. And they are literally animalistic as fuck. So I need to find that within myself, and bring it out - a completely animalistic energy"

>>18086730

>You want prison or military as ways to move your strength outside of your own control and responsibility

I agree with Anon here:>>18086658

You are just trying to find something to "show" you are manly. But you'll never be happy. Ever seen those people that go crazy with plastic surgery or those "mental" guys at the gym pop pills until their dicks stop working? Well, they are chasing an imaginary ideal, too. Set realistic limits to your goals. "Being manly" is not realistic. You can never be "manly" enough, so people kepp pushing and are never truly happy.

>>18086248
I explained it about and yes it makes sense.

>>18086725
You might want to test the waters, get a taste of prison life, simulate it, you may take the comforts and security you have now for granted, not appreciating them for what they are truly worth until it is too late, evaluate that carefully first.

It might not be as bad of a compromise as it seems, it might just seem that way because you are unfulfilled despite it all.

Crime is highly stressful, most guys doing it are reckless impulsive retards with little impulse control and people above those are as ruthless but more cunning about it, don't fall for the romanticized portrayal of it. It is not a necessity to achieve a strong self that you can be content with.

Being a fool for appearances will not do yourself any favors, it seems you tend to gravitate to absolutes and see compromises as weak, even if they are in your (or mutual) favor.

Start with manageable steps to becoming a stronger you, you want to get a killer physique? You don't need prison for that, do yourself a favor and follow through on what you want and achieve this all by yourself without any outside influence simply because you want it, develop discipline where you exert effort to please yourself, this will become constructive habituated behavior and it will start to affect your future endeavors and behaviors as well.

>>18086739
>You are just trying to find something to "show" you are manly
Perhaps, but I'd say my ultimate goal is to have as many children as possible. I just think this is the best way. But maybe I'm wrong.

>Set realistic limits to your goals.
Why would you limit yourself? Every one of us wants to do as well as we possibly can in life don't we?

I think as this thread goes on, I realise how obtuse and stupid I am being 2bh

>>18086760
Good post and you are probably right about all of that 2bh

>>18086773
>Every one of us wants to do as well as we possibly can in life don't we?

"As we possibly can" being the operative term. Don't follow an idealistic idea of manhood. You can never be "the perfect ideal man". No one can.

>but I'd say my ultimate goal is to have as many children as possible.

Convert to one of those religions that want you to have 12 children or something.


You are jumping from thing to thing to try to define "manhood". THat's exactly what I'm saying above. Is it having many kids? Is it being an animal? Being strong? Living in danger? Living outside of society? What is it?

Even if you got one of this goals, you'll still want the others, and you'd keep making more goals up because the reality is that you don't like yourself. You want to be something better. But instead of realistically looking at your flaws, you look at other people and decide they are "men", and you sohuld bel ike them. Get teraphy and work on this issues. A gym won't help you here, man.

>>18086773
What works for me as far as training and getting ripped goes. If I find myself making excuses or 'not feeling like it' etc. I get derogatory on myself, I call myself a weakling, weak-willed, 'is that what you want to be? And so I taunt myself until I am doing the god damn work to get what I want.

Nothing wrong with wanting a physical, "masculine" job rather than being a web developer. But your reason "not to be cucky" is ridiculous. You can be a fucking florist and still be alpha as fuck. It sounds like you care so much about being "alpha", it's making you a fucking Chad. Being alpha isn't about being vain about how you're perceived. It's about being the top dog without having to snarl around all the time, proving you're "the best".

My man is a 6,5" hairy manbeast of a powerlifter who I trust my life with. He doesn't give a shit about what others think about how he lives his life, while being gentle, loyal and adequate as fuck. Same counts for my mate who's a black belt in about any martial arts I can name. Both have their insecurities, but not about who they are or how others see them. They proved time and time again they come on top of every situation, not only physically (and rarely with a fight) but also mentally.

My man works in IT, my mate's a male nurse.

> tldr; OP confuses being alpha with being a Chad

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>>18083606
Look Op. it's very strange reading this, to me at least and here is why.

When I was your age I was seen as a cuck by my wife, we where like " bonny and clyde" yes you read right. think about it.

Now in our escapade we met some dude ( younger then me by 3 years ). at the time I was 25 and boy did he do everything right by my wife's book. He could " husstle etc" while I'mover here been a noob of noobs from the streets. Long story short, time flew by and I became everything he was but better? who knows. In my mind it seemed better but to all their own HO. I became the man OP but guess what now my own wife is scared of me. I am 'too much" so then what is a real man OP ? wasn't buff or w/e. but my actions spoke a lot.

5 years after that shit I'm over here almost 30. havent accomplished shit. and guess what I want now ? A desk job. I guess a dum fucked seen some shit for me to consider that and I'll tell you what, You see a lot of shit on the streets.

be careful op. do you, but make sure you don't forget you're doing it to make your self happy and not PROVE shit to people, friend's, etc. for me it was my wife.

Stay humble Op. please.

>>18086788
Would you agree with me that every male on this planet wants to be as alpha as possible? Because that's my opinion.

And when guys decide they don't want to, it's because they think they can't. Really they do want to. But they can't face the psychological pain of knowing that they wouldn't be very good at becoming alpha. So they say to themselves that it's not a goal of theirs instead.

>>18086796
Fair. Have you ever found that working out made you aggressive to the point where you didn't know what to do with that aggression? That's what happened with me really, and I guess then I started questioning everything and hating life

>>18086865
>And when guys decide they don't want to, it's because they think they can't. Really they do want to.

Yes, you know what all men want. You are the voice of every single man.

Oh, wait, no you aren't. You are a dipshit that thinks all people are the same. Look out your window, talk to people, and realize how deeply wrong you are. Or pill yourself into oblivion trying to be "as alpha as possible" and then suffer for never being big enough. Your choice, really.

>>18086865
>Fair. Have you ever found that working out made you aggressive to the point where you didn't know what to do with that aggression? That's what happened with me really, and I guess then I started questioning everything and hating life


I view being able to control those impulses as a strength that is just as important, those ripped gym monkeys you spoke of earlier are often impulsive and lack impulse control, this is a weakness, not a strength, they assert their lack of control over their emotional state by being confrontational douchebags, they can't even control their own emotions, pathetic. It makes them predictable and easy to trigger into doing stupid things.

In your case, if you see red, hammer: 'CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL' into your inner thoughts, take a seat somewhere, close your eyes, take a deep breath, hold it in for a long time, release, and repeat until the red fades. If this is not satisfactory construct a violent fantasy instead that does sate your urges but keep it internal.

>>18086819
Are you a woman or a gay male?

>tldr; OP confuses being alpha with being a Chad
Hm, maybe, since I guess Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were alpha, since Steve had 4 kids and Bill had 3, and they both provided them a hell of a lot, given their fortunes

So in that sense they're alpha I guess, but of course not Chads

>>18087013

Yeah, Only apes at the gym channel their testosterone into agression. Most fitness athletes (ok except roidraged bodybuilders) get pumped, brawny, jazzed up; enthusiastic. Want to wrestle a man or fuck a woman. Says a lot about a person when they get agressive at the gym. Insecure I guess.

>>18087043
Don't fall for the 'every aggression is repressed homo's meme' there can be numerous reasons but not being able to control emotions is often a good indicator for a lack of intelligence or maturity.

>>18087040

F

Not sure about them, I only know their public personalities. Who knows what shit they pull at home or what they're really worth as human beings. Same counts for actors who are perceived manly as fuck; I'd like to think the guy who plays khal drogo is alpha but if his muscles speak more than his actions you're still nowhere.

>>18086858
Good post, thank you for sharing. Did you ever get nicked?

>and guess what I want now ? A desk job. I guess a dum fucked seen some shit for me to consider that and I'll tell you what, You see a lot of shit on the streets.
Fair.

>be careful op. do you, but make sure you don't forget you're doing it to make your self happy and not PROVE shit to people, friend's, etc. for me it was my wife.
I just wanna be successful 2bh. Have as many children as possible, but then again don't we all.

>>18086883
>Yes, you know what all men want. You are the voice of every single man.
Do you think that scientists, anthropologists, are able to draw meaningful conclusions about the behaviour of horses, elephants, dolphins, chimpanzees, etc? So then why not human beings? We are animals just like any other.

So yes, I do think I know what motivates all humans; we are able to make those conclusions about other animals. We know that other social animals, like us, live in social groups, and that the males compete within these groups for leadership/dominance. And those males that gain such a position get the first access to resources and, in particular, females. Sometimes it is ONLY the alphas that get access to females for reproduction.

Humans, in our big and complex society, form many hierarchies WITHIN the hierarchy, as it were. Money creates a hierarchy, but then businesses are hierarchies too. A prison also has a hierarchy of prisoners within it. In school, pupils are within a social hierarchy.

Your argument doesn't really hold water, in my opinion. I think that we definitely can deduce things about what a healthy human desires; how they are likely to behave. Just like we can make conclusions about how healthy dogs behave. How healthy cats behave. Et cetera.

>but humans are more complex
We're really not that much more complex. We're slightly more intelligent than other animals, sure. Not a huge amount. We still operate according to exactly the same principles.

>>18087013
>I view being able to control those impulses as a strength that is just as important, those ripped gym monkeys you spoke of earlier are often impulsive and lack impulse control, this is a weakness, not a strength, they assert their lack of control over their emotional state by being confrontational douchebags, they can't even control their own emotions, pathetic. It makes them predictable and easy to trigger into doing stupid things.
What if they end up having more children though?

Sure, you could say their children have a lower chance of surviving/reproducing if their father is just a criminal.

Look at mafiosos. Clearly they do very well for themselves don't they?

So, objectively speaking, I don't think lack of impulse control is necessarily a strength; it's contingent. The only rule of life that matters is how reproductively successful you are. How you achieve that doesn't matter; all that matters is that you maximise your reproductive success as much as you can.

>>18087043
>>18087055
>Only apes at the gym channel their testosterone into agression.
No. You are just saying this to comfort yourself.

In reality, we are all pursuing different reproductive strategies, aren't we? Every human chooses the path that they think will lead to their greatest reproductive success.

That's my contention; that you should do whatever is likely to give you the most reproductive success.

>>18087058
>Not sure about them, I only know their public personalities. Who knows what shit they pull at home or what they're really worth as human beings
I guess for a woman, it makes sense that's what you'd look at, since for a woman, it matters whether the man is going to take care of the family, and be around to raise the children. So their character matters.

For me, I don't care what they're "worth as human beings" - I just see it in terms of how reproductively successful the man is.

I mean, to both men and women, having children is important; but men obviously can just pump and dump, whereas women have to be more selective about partners, since they invest so much in gestating the child.

Maybe you think I am being sexist here; I am just trying to be scientifically accurate.

>>18087111
>That's my contention; that you should do whatever is likely to give you the most reproductive success.

Granted, they are adapting successfully so there is merit to being a buffoon, sure.
Still makes them easy to trigger into rage and stupidity.

>>18087111

I get what you're saying here. I just wouldn't count out how women feel in this situation, as they're present in picking a partner. Unless you want to rape them or take them with dodgy consent, neanderthal style.

Which makes me curious about your willingness to confirm to modern day culture in this. Do you want to impregnate flocks of women - let's call this primal alphaness for the sake of the discussion. Or do you want to find one (or even a few more, making it a polygamous construction for the sake of speedy and succesful reproduction) who you would consider a perfect birthing machine - for the sake of the discussion, a modern-day culture "ideal" based on one or more steady partners?

>>18087141
>Which makes me curious about your willingness to confirm to modern day culture in this.
Well that's sort of my point, is it worth engaging in modern day culture anymore?

If it can bring children, then yes there is reason to do it I suppose; if not, then it would be better to find whatever other way necessary in order to reproduce.

>Do you want to impregnate flocks of women - let's call this primal alphaness for the sake of the discussion.
That's what every male wants at the end of the day; if they could get it, that's what they'd do.

>>18087289

Well that's disconcerting. Without modern day culture we'd all be raping reaving animals. I do hope you're philosophizing here, as you seem rather vain about how others perceive you. But if this is the question in the end (like with many beta cucks who can't find their way in society here on 4chan) I'd rather refrain myself from this thread. The outcome of any such a philosophy is unfitting in this day and age and very unsuitable for the weaker sex. As we as a society can't conform to such a humanitary setback, I even think it's rather childish (just like how the thread started).

Nonetheless, thank you for your honest opinions and your effort into wording your thoughts. I genuinely hope this is a phase for you, and that you can become happy in the regular world.

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>>18084750
We found the white girl who has a collection of dragon dildos.

>>18083606
you are a NEET. and you expect me to be like you?
thats a big bucket of nope right there.

the reason people go get jobs is means to a end.
you arent a alpha:

>a alpha knows what he wants and gets what he wants.
>alphas dont have crossroads
>alphas never dought themselves because its the dought that stops you.
>a alpha works for themselves not for "the man"

go be a hipster faggot somewhere else. no one cares about your bullshit problem. stop whining and get a fucking job.

>>18087404
>Well that's disconcerting. Without modern day culture we'd all be raping reaving animals. I do hope you're philosophizing here, as you seem rather vain about how others perceive you. But if this is the question in the end (like with many beta cucks who can't find their way in society here on 4chan) I'd rather refrain myself from this thread. The outcome of any such a philosophy is unfitting in this day and age and very unsuitable for the weaker sex. As we as a society can't conform to such a humanitary setback, I even think it's rather childish (just like how the thread started).
>Nonetheless, thank you for your honest opinions and your effort into wording your thoughts. I genuinely hope this is a phase for you, and that you can become happy in the regular world.

But it's the truth, and it's happening every day; there ARE criminals, whether you like it or not, and personally, I wish they were all punished to the fullest extent of the law. But they're not. And they get away with shit.

>>18083606
>However. I am not applying for jobs, because I see web development as cucky.
Same shit, but I'm a male nurse.

Let's talk about masculinity OP, because I feel like I'm acting so violent all the time to compensate for something.

>>18087425
Exactly, that's the feeling I'm talking about.

And I'm wondering whether it's best to act on those impulses or not. I know that it probably isn't.

I know that if I actually got a job, and then did some fucking exercise or hobbies like I used to do, and saw my friends again, and got a girlfriend, then I'd feel proud of myself and like myself again

So I probably should do those things

But I dunno, a lot of my life decisions didn't go my way; to put it another way, people I know were pushing me around a lot. I feel like I need to fucking show these people that I'm not just a fucking faggot. That's probably one reason why I feel I need to do something to prove to people I'm not a fucking pushover cuck

Okay here's a different question. Do you think working a job, or becoming a criminal, is a better reproductive strategy?

>>18084023
Going to jail makes you a social outcast, the polar opposite of an alpha who leads others.

>>18087763
Unless you become an alpha criminal.

Man I keep being completely obtuse in this thread.

Question then, how do *you* convince yourself to stay on the straight and narrow? To live the legal life? How do you convince yourself that that's in *your* best interest?

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>>18083606
>smart
>understand math and science
>durable body
>looking for a real challenge
>wants to do something manly
>considering the military
Be a fucking fighter pilot, brah. That should give you a real test

>>18087809
>Question then, how do *you* convince yourself to stay on the straight and narrow? To live the legal life? How do you convince yourself that that's in *your* best interest?
Why should I do it? I don't need to commit any crimes and don't like fucking people over.
The repercussions are also not worth it, going to jail stains your reputation and social life forever. You talk about wanting children, but only damaged women want to deal with men who get in trouble with the law. You should also think about the quality of your offspring. In nature alpha males fuck the healthiest and most desirable women to have strong babies, and leave the sick ones to the weaker males.

>>18087813
That would be very cool, but I looked into it before, and I think it is extremely competitive

Also I just checked; in my country (Britain) the max age for starting is 25 (you have to start training by 26), and I'm about to turn 26 in a couple months. So, there you go.

>>18087820
>In nature alpha males fuck the healthiest and most desirable women to have strong babies, and leave the sick ones to the weaker males.
Hm, I suppose you are right, and genetically strong females have no reason to go after criminals, they usually go for monied, well-to-do males.

So would you say that it is an *objectively* better reproductive strategy to lead a legal life?

>>18086281
But it isn't. What you are saying is the same as "caring about masculinity makes you a little immature girly boy". Not true. It's okay to care about masculinity. You SHOULD care about masculinity. So many young men don't think about masculinity, now we have an identity crisis as males. That happnened by doing exactly what you say makes you masculine - not thinking about it. Not remembering our capability is what lost our masculinity in the first place.


Look how many kids/homosexuals/woman don't care about masculinity. You are saying they are, by your own description, "masculine"? You aren't thinking critically....

It's okay to think about masculinity and act in ways that are mature and masculine. Being a tryhard or being hypermasculine is what you are thinking of. Yeah, trying too hard and overdoing anything is going to get the opposite affect, but simply applying yourself to a well thought out path... there's nothing immasculine about that.

>cucking yourself out of a job because you'll feel like a cuck

topkuk

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>>18087833
>So would you say that it is an *objectively* better reproductive strategy to lead a legal life?
Absolutely.
If you get in trouble with the law everyone will know and you'll become a social outcast.
I never committed a crime personally, but I was involved with courts and police since childhood, because of it I grew up alone since nobody wants their children to be involved with that nasty shit.
Women who are sane & good wife/mother material avoid criminals and ex-convicts, they want strong men who know their shit, have a solid job and high income. Those are the qualities of the modern alpha male.

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>>18083606
>However. I am not applying for jobs, because I see web development as cucky.

Stop reading there, you're already retarded.

>>18087857
But it isn't. What you are saying is the same as "caring about masculinity makes you a little immature girly boy". Not true. It's okay to care about masculinity. You SHOULD care about masculinity. So many young men don't think about masculinity, now we have an identity crisis as males. That happnened by doing exactly what you say makes you masculine - not thinking about it. Not remembering our capability is what lost our masculinity in the first place.
OP here, you hit on a very good point. I agree with this very much.

Sure, TALKING about it is frowned upon; it probably always has been. Men are defined by ACTIONS, not by talking; however, it was always accepted blokes would be blokes. "Boys will be boys". Now, guys feel like they shouldn't be bloke-ish (that would be "sexist"), and they tell themselves "yeah I'm secure in myself", but many aren't, of course, because guys need to be able to prove themselves somehow.

>It's okay to think about masculinity and act in ways that are mature and masculine.
True dat, I think.

>Being a tryhard or being hypermasculine is what you are thinking of. Yeah, trying too hard and overdoing anything is going to get the opposite affect, but simply applying yourself to a well thought out path... there's nothing immasculine about that.
If trying hard is becoming a steroid freak who ends up either killing himself, or not having any kids, by becoming obsessed with his appearance, then yes, that isn't masculine at all, that's just fucking stupid.

But becoming someone like Eddie Hall (deadlift champion) is pretty fucking alpha.

Web development IS cucky

>>18087862
>I never committed a crime personally, but I was involved with courts and police since childhood, because of it I grew up alone since nobody wants their children to be involved with that nasty shit.
If I'm reading that right, do you mean your parents were involved with it, so they weren't around, and that's why you grew up alone?

>Women who are sane & good wife/mother material avoid criminals and ex-convicts, they want strong men who know their shit, have a solid job and high income. Those are the qualities of the modern alpha male.
I mean yes, I want to believe that even if criminals / benefit scroungers *do* have more kids, that those kids won't amount to anything. I mean, that sounds harsh I guess (it isn't the kids fault), but I see these people having more children than people who do the right thing (getting educated, working a job, paying taxes) and that just isn't justice at all.

>>18087866
Yeah I am 2bf

>>18087910
>If I'm reading that right, do you mean your parents were involved with it, so they weren't around, and that's why you grew up alone?
Both me and my parents were involved, I had the police picking me up at school.
>I mean yes, I want to believe that even if criminals / benefit scroungers *do* have more kids, that those kids won't amount to anything. I mean, that sounds harsh I guess (it isn't the kids fault), but I see these people having more children than people who do the right thing (getting educated, working a job, paying taxes) and that just isn't justice at all.
Having a lot of children is pointless if they end up getting raised by a single mom, damaged and poor as fuck.
It is unfair that criminals get to have many children and have you paying for them, but damaged people only produce damaged people, it isn't worth it, choosing that way is like staining your bloodline.
Look at rich guys instead, Donald Trump for example has five kids and they're all successful because their dad is powerful, he also got to fuck the best women to make them.

>>18087939
>Both me and my parents were involved, I had the police picking me up at school.
Damn. I hope it wasn't something terrible.

>It is unfair that criminals get to have many children and have you paying for them, but damaged people only produce damaged people, it isn't worth it, choosing that way is like staining your bloodline.
True.

>Look at rich guys instead, Donald Trump for example has five kids and they're all successful because their dad is powerful, he also got to fuck the best women to make them.
Very true, but how many people become Donald Trump these days?

Then again I used to look up to people like Bill Gates (three kids), Steve Jobs (four kids), Linus Torvalds (three kids) - all successful tech/business people, all made good money who could provide well for their families

>>18087964
Of course I'm not saying that you should become the next president of the US, but there is something to learn from people like him, or the other ones you mentioned.
Money and status determine how big your dick is, it's a shame that you don't like web development, but picky guys always lose. That's what you have and what you can do well, take advantage of it.

>>18085148
Holy fuck kid you're dumb. My best bud comes from a criminal background. His dad is a small but not insignificant player in English drug trafficking and obviously he is exposed to the contacts that come from this. His uncles are involved too. He has the most fucked family conditions of anyone I've met. His parents are separated and his dad was abusive and absent (imprisoned or with other women) for most of his childhood.

Criminals might fuck some woman and have a few kids but that doesn't mean they succeeded by any means. My friend is lucky he works hard and so his life is going good but still he thinks about following his dad's path.

>>18087982
True 2bf

>>18088774
Fair