Dealing with excessive independence in relationships

>>17999555
>Women are especially prone to this excessive independence due to an ever growing societal complex of not wanting to "end up like their mother", and the radical feminist doctrine that doesn't only preach prejudicial independence but also a purge by fire for anyone who attempts non-self reliance.

what the fuck are you even saying here?

Projections, projections everywhere

Women and men both need to submit to each other wholly. This is true love.

What you perceive as excessive independence may either be non attachment, or your insecurity, some intimacy issues, or outright they're just busy. So relax. You don't really.know. time apart is just as important as time together. Calling it excessive sounds like you want some more intimacy.

>>17999993
Not OP, but women try too hard to be aloof and detached from their boyfriends cause submitting to men is a huge taboo in today's world- because feminism and MTV told them so.

Had a fuckbuddy tell me this before and I've seen a trend with many many many women- it even will affect their sex lives. They want to fuck and sleep around and binge drink wine and travel the world but because they have a deep seated hatred for das/men they'll never cede control to men, meaning they'll never relax around a man sexually, meaning they'll never reach orgasm. It's why man hating feminists are super into rough/rapeplay sex and why rape fantasies are the most popular among women


This is for western women mostly, go get a girl from another country or from a religious community and they'll have no insecurities being led by a man. No coincidence that these types of women also have lower depression rates than atheist libr8ed American women

>>17999555
No hope for you, no.

>>18000032
For a relationship to work there shouldn't be one part submitting to the other. It should be mutual. Both people "submit" and depend on the other in a way.

We were raised (all of us - not just women or men) thinking that being alone, being strong and independent was cool. i think that there's so much more courage in being a bit dependent on each other, in being part of something bigger than ourselves. It takes a lot of courage to trust, a lot of responsibility to take care of someone else, a lot of faith to let yourself grow dependent on someone.

In a relationship there shouldn't be a side in control, but both sides taking care of each other according to their strengths. Relationship are built on respect and trust, not on control.

>While independence itself is not a bad thing, too much--similarly to too little dependence

Think you folks, or at least the women replying, are missing that aspect. Since OP is obviously a man, the perspective is coming from a man in relation to a women. But he also indicated that he's aware this is a two way street, meaning this applies to both sides. So stop the men vs women pretense and just get to the heart of the fucking matter.

I actually agree. My relationship was fine until her feminist friends drilled it in her head that she needed some liberator and that we were too posessive of eachother. Now we're all independent and shit, but the relationship suffered.


So yea being dependent on eachother is a good thing for couples. And so are imposing nice limitations like "no talking to any boys, period" and no girls for me either obviously. People who actually have successful relationships will see the value in this. So much less pressure doubt and fighting. But to a modern woman with well-meaning feminist tendencies they will see this as too controlling. But i honestly think having a bunch of boys to pick from cheapens the one that you have. This all goes for men too obviously. They have always been chastised for being "whipped". But the sjw craze has certainly brought female empowerment to the forefront, at the cost of healthy relationships.

There is basically no reason for getting attached to anyone in modern society unless you are somehow flawed or damaged. Unless there is some hole to fill for you.

>>18000078
I even agree with you on part of your post but the idea that imposing limitations on someone's social life is healthy is ridiculous.
My boyfriend does whatever he wants, and doesn't need my permission to do anything. He goes clubbing, hangs out, travels with his male and female friends. Hell, he spent 4 days over at a female friend's house last month. I don't have one doubt about his faithfulness.
We're open, we communicate, we trust each other. I feel deeply loved and adored. We've been together for years and he has never been untrustworthy in any way.
I don't feel pressure because I'm not insecure. I don't think that just because he hangs out with girls or because he could get another girl if he wanted I'm less valuable. Our relationship is amazing, and not because he doesn't have any other choice, but because I do my very best to make staying with me the best choice for him. I wouldn't want it any other way.

>>18000097
>My boyfriend does whatever he wants, and doesn't need my permission to do anything. He goes clubbing, hangs out, travels with his male and female friends. Hell, he spent 4 days over at a female friend's house last month. I don't have one doubt about his faithfulness.

You're either delusional, misjudging of the situation, or don't care for him as much as you believe you do. Maybe you even have a side piece you're not letting on about. You're not implementing enough limitations to declare him as yours which is a strong turn-off for men unless one of you if fraternizing and the other frankly doesn't care enough about you to give a fuck.

>>18000097
>He goes clubbing, hangs out, travels with his male and female friends.

Da fuck bitch your a side chick, and he's just playing you on.

>>18000120
>>18000123
>You're either delusional, misjudging of the situation, or don't care for him as much as you believe you do.
None of that.
Have been together for 10 years, living together for 6 years, rarely argue, very happy together and still awfully in love. We travel together, still fuck a lot, go out on dates, share hobbies and interests, and he's totally my best friend.
The idea that limiting someone's life is a way to show them you love them is ridiculous.
He's free to do whatever he wants as long as he doesn't cheat on me, he never did anything shady, puts a shitton of effort in our relationship and is a perfect boyfriend.

>>18000053
You're so naive it's a sin. Wake up dude.

>>18000138

Snowflake syndrome detected.
Your relationship is nothing special and should be re-evaluated. Likely by someone who isn't trying to fool themselves.
Unless you are otherwise "settling" and frankly don't care how he spends his free time or with what women he preforms recreational activities with. In which case you are the very woman OP is solely against.

>>18000173
Why naive?
My parents have that kind of relationship and they have been together for 35 years, I am in a relationship and I've been with my boyfriend for 10 years.

>>18000177
Kek. Snowflake syndrome because of what?
My relationship is happy. I don't feel like there's anything to re-evaluate because we're frankly very happy together.
He spends most of his free time with me. If he sometimes wants to go out and party with his friends, or go on a trip with his friends from college, I am not going to tell him not to. I am not his mom, I don't tell him what to do - ever. If some of his friends happen to be girls, I won't make a huge deal about it.
I know all of his friends, I am friends with most of them, I often hang out with them.
I'm not just as extrovert and outgoing as he is, often he wants to go out and party with his friends till 5 AM and I want to stay home and read a book. He can go out and I can stay home, we're both happy.

>>18000097
Original guy you responded to. I'll just go ahead and assume everything you said is true and that neither of you have any secrets from eachother. (I personally find it extremely unlikely but hopefully true love exists and i'm just jaded)

But have you ever considered that some people just cannot be as mature and responsible as you and your boyfriend? The sad truth is, maybe you are more deserving of trust than many other women. I love my girl of 8 years to death but she falls for every guy she comes in contact with and its always a big disaster. Always hiding texts and secretly flirting and going out to dinner etc. We both acknowledge this as a problem and the solution has been to cut off all contact with men, and women for myself in the interest of fairness, although I've never had any of these problems in the past. Perhaps its "unhealthy" but its the only way i can keep this ship sailing.
Basically, you have to realize that people have very different maturity levels and situations than you do. So i think i gave ok advice to OP, if he cannot find any girls that are trustworthy then he'll just have to have an untrustworthy one on an iron leash. It isn't ideal, but we gotta do what we can.

>>18000173
Naive?

He's talking about the ideal relationship which is completely attainable.

>>18000204
>attainable.

Unobtainable*

Idealism is specific to the individual. Two individuals may share similar ideas, but almost never the same ideal. They simply put up with the others bullshit and settle for the lesser of evils in order to live out a live which they've been led to believe is a happy one, by both instinctual genetics and societal expectations.

>>18000200
No, I don't hide anything from him, and I don't think he hides anything from me. Obviously I can't be 100% sure, but he never did anything "shady", I never caught him lying, he doesn't hide his phone or laptop, he is always happy when I ask him if I can go out with him (unless it is a "guy only" thing).

For sure not everyone is mature and responsible like us, but the idea that it is good to limitate each other's interactions is a bit silly.
One of the things that made me want to stay with my boyfriend for so long is that I never missed out on anything by being with him. I had a lot of fun, I grew up as a person, I created strong friendships, met a lot of people, travelled and lived my life fully.
He supported all my decisions, or talked to me and tried to find a compromise that could work for both of us if he thought something could hurt us as a couple. But it was never an imposition, it was always mutual.
If anything, being with him and having someone who loves me deeply and takes care of me made me feel like I could do more with my life - I took more risks because I knew I had him to support me and help me. Even if we broke up tomorrow, I wouldn't feel like I wasted 10 years of my life being with him. I put a lot of effort into our relationship, but it pays back because being with him makes me the happiest person I could ever be. It is the best investment I've ever done.

>>18000226
Attainable. Parents have loved this way for 40 years.

>Two individuals may share similar ideas, but almost never the same ideal.

Barring some sexual fetishes, most people would like a trusting and respectful relationship as opposed to opposite.


And yes, people will have different opinions and beliefs and have gotten along just fine. It's not a new concept.

>>18000250
>And yes, people will have different opinions and beliefs and have gotten along just fine. It's not a new concept.

Projecting your own convictions into an unbiased conversation. Opinion instantly disregarded.

>>18000260

Compromise is not new. How is that biased?

Anyway, I see you haven't addressed my main pint that people prefer a trusting and respecting relationship.

>>18000226
Obviously to be in a relationship you do have to put up with some bullshit, but that's true for most social interactions. I can't think of one person that doesn't have at least one trait I consider a flaw.
But, to be frank, I don't think that happiness is just doing what you want without having to put up with anybody's bullshit.
I have a full life, I do plenty of things that make me happy, but it would all be meaningless for me if I didn't have anyone to share my happiness with. If I did them all for myself they would mean so much less.
Putting up with his bullshit is sometimes a pain, but it makes my life more meaningful. The one thing that makes me happy the most is sharing my happiness, my skills, my capacities with others - my boyfriend, my family, my friends, my community. Being happy and being good at something would mean so much less if I could impact other's lives positively.
The point isn't living a life you consider ideal, at least to me.

>>18000053
You are literally, objectively, satanically wrong.

"22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[b] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

>>18000310

Funny, the West call itself Christian but are not living like. Christians (divorce, etc)

>>18000310
Yeah, I don't frankly give a shit about what the Bible says.

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>>18000316
k
you're still wrong tho

>>18000321
Well, prove me wrong?

>>18000322
You've already been proven wrong. Your rejection of the truth does not undo it

>>18000326
Where have I been proven wrong?
I have read someone calling me naive and someone quoting the bible.
No one disproved what I said, or even replied to the points I made.
If you can give me a logical explanation of how what I said is wrong, or at least show me the post where someone did.

>>18000053
Yeah the word you're looking for is interdependence. That's a healthy relationship imho

>>18000343
>interdependence
Never heard the term, will read about it. Thank you.

>>18000358
Yeah no problem. To get it started check out this article https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-fitness/201107/interdependence-days-how-create-balanced-relationship

>>18000227
>he never did anything "shady"
>was at a female friends house for 4 days

>>18000537
Yes, nothing shady.
She lives abroad. Invited me and my boyfriend to go spend some time there, with her and some other friends who live in that town. I was supposed to go too, but I got sick, so he went alone.
They are friends from elementary school and we lived with her for 2 years, in college. Nothing weird at all.

Do you think that a guy and a girl can't spend a couple of days alone together without fucking?

>>18000568

Thanks for destroying my thread liberal bitch.
Like all liberals, wherever you go, toxic ignorance follows.

>>18000837
I just replied with my experience.
I have been in a happy relationship for 10 years, you're unsatisfied with your love life. I don't see how I'm the one who ignores how to make a relationship work in the long term and you know all the right answers.

they dont last because love stops and when it stops youre a boring sack of shit they dont want to be around, presumably.

>>18001014

Nobody gives a shit. Take your snowflake masturbatory shit somewhere else. It's clear you're trying to paint your own picture to impress or feel superior. I'd go so far to say you have some kind of inferiority complex. Typical liberal mentality.

>>18001134
If you don't give a shit about anyone else's opinion you shouldn't open a thread or ask for a discussion. Just sit in your room alone and masturbate about how smart you are.
I am not trying to impress anyone (and why would I care about impressing some strangers who don't even know why I am?), I don't have any superiority or inferiority complex, pretty content with myself.
Anyway, I should study and sleep. Good luck, hope you find a submissive wife to have a great relationship with.

>>18000053
Sad to say, women need control and they know it themselves. You just haven't been in a relationship lately cause you're a feminist SJW.

>>18001264
Been in a relationship for 10 years.
Not a feminist, not a SJW, pretty conservative. Just not mentally challenged or emotionally incompetent.