What are poeple supposed to do?

It's not hypocrisy at all. Some people are just too close to certain situations to effectively be of any help. They might be too emotionally attached to a person, relationship, etc to be properly objective. This might skew the help that you're attempting to give and can even lead to manipulation.

Each situation is different, of course.

>>17936482
So depressed people are supposed to seek help from their second once-removed cousins or their delivery men instead?

This is not about the psychological help from professional medicals - which of course must be objective - but about the support accompanying it.

>>17936500
I think that depends on the issues, causes, relationships, etc. This whole topic is rather general.

Let's say someone has depression issues that stem from family members. Those family members might not be the most effective support simply because of past events.

Again, it's very hard to say without any familiarity with the situation.

>>17936451
>>17936500
What does the word "help" mean to you, in this context? Your friends & family can't cure your depression. A good friend would be sympathetic and understanding of your condition. A good friend would be there for you when you really need it.

But there are also some people who use mental illnesses like this as an excuse for bad behavior, or as a way to constantly make themselves the center of attention, constantly inventing one crisis after another with no solution in sight. You don't know how incredibly taxing it can be to care for a person who emotionally manipulates you, threatens suicide, etc. If someone is literally ruining YOUR life with THEIR depression, sometimes walking away and cutting them off is really the right thing to do.

>>17936523
You little weak-cunt. "Each situation is different", "the topic is rather general", "hard to say".
Going like this we wouldn't go anywhere in any topic. Do you ever decide on anything? Take a stand for anything? Have any principles? Come to any conclusion, ever?
"Should we have the death penalty?" "well i mean like... it's hard to say every situation is different i guess lol idk"
Get a spine

>>17936542
You can't draw the line where """"bad behavior"""" begins and the symptoms of mental illness ends. This is what mental illness looks like in the flesh - it is dirty and annoying and bothersome, and a mental ill person is often not - at that moment - a good human being, a good friend or a good partner.

>>17936451
>But this is when it really comes down to it - this is when empathy, friendship and loyalty is needed for real. It WILL bother you, but sacrifice is the proof of true empathy. Being truly empathic means sharing the pain.

When people say "seek help" they mean psychological help. You need to see a professional who can help you with your sickness. Your friends are not your psychiatrists. I understand the point you're making and yeah, friends are there to listen to you and be sympathetic to you. However when you're talking about experiencing the pain...that's not what your friends are for. You're dragging the relationship you have with this person into a negative depressed place just because of your issues. Just because I have a cold, doesn't mean my friend has to experience my runny nose too.

Your friends won't fix your depression, having friends will help with depression though.

>>17936563
>listen to you and be sympathetic
no
>experiencing the pain
yes
>that's not what your friends are for
i disagree entirely, and would state the opposite
that is my point.

>>17936562
Yes, you can, pretty easily. Depressed people are still accountable for our actions, like anyone else. If I lash out at the people close to me and treat them like shit just because I'm going through a rough patch, if I disregard their needs and demand that they cater to mine, then I'm being an asshole.

>>17936623
You're making the same point as >>17936562
The person is held accountable for their actions because there is no line between person and disorder, and they should be held accountable anyway.

>>17936576
We have different views on friendship then. I don't think that my friends should break their legs if mine is broken. I would expect them to be sympathetic and understand my feelings. I would hope they accommodate for me the best they can like going to a place with a ramp or not walking long distances, but I wouldn't want my life to impact them and bring our friendship down. If we all had plans to go to Six Flags, I wouldn't expect them to not go.

It's a weird analogy but I think it holds true for depression. I think they should still be there for you but it shouldn't impact the friend themselves.

>>17936645
Well there's a difference between dudes you go to six flags with and your best friends throughout life/your partner. Love.

>>17936645
I know what you mean and sometimes, as hard as it is to swallow, some friends just can't handle the mental illness that their friend is going through. It doesn't make them bad people or bad friends.

>>17936645
>there is no line between person and disorder
This is the part that I disagree with. There are some people who will mention their diagnosis constantly, and use it as an excuse to not even TRY to be good to the people around them. Yes, there are times when depression will cause you to disappear from people's lives, break promises, become irritable or tough to be around. It can be a tough condition.

Then there are other times when you're perfectly aware that you're being an asshole, capable of NOT being an asshole, but you're pretty sure you can play the "I'm depressed" card to avoid consequence

There's definitely a line between the disorder and the person. I have a mood disorder and I wouldn't define myself as the disorder. It's just a small part of me. I agree too that some of us out there do use our disorders as an excuse to get attention and I hate that.

There are vampire people: They "use" people "without" recognition, acceptance and appreciation.

Most are gracious "only" when things go their way: then they forget and other people are the problem. They cannot share and so are not fair and caring. Self-made = Arrogance.

Perhaps you're trying to empathize with people lacking empathy, who are self-centered, egotistical and believe everyone revolves around them. We have to be friend to ourselves first and being with negative, toxic users doesn't help ourselves so we won't be better and maybe come back stronger and more able to better tolerate their ignorance and arrogance. Or maybe they have to hit rock-bottom and live through humility and shame.

>>17936666
>>17936660
Yeah there's a difference between the person and the disorder from the sick person's perspective but to others (and the friends in question) you're just the actions you take and not the explanations you have for them.

I have a mentally ill family member and I can easily say that she is no longer herself and that if she wasn't family I would never associate with her. That's entirely because of the actions she's taken. My sympathy and empathy can only go a certain distance before it effects my life just because she won't go to a doctor. A friend is there to help you when you're sick, not become sick with you.

Also
>>17936656
time is a bs metric for measuring the value of any relationship. I could be friends with someone for 10 years, but if they've been an ass to me this year, that's what really matters.

>>17936547
This guy is fucking retarded.

>>17936776
great argument, really made me think, 10/10

>>17936759
Your mentally ill family member is still who they are. We as humans go through change everyday. Who I was five years ago isn't the same as who I am today. And if I allowed other's perceptions of my actions to define me, I'd be screwed. Sounds like you don't really understand your mentally family member or mental illness at all.

>>17936781
You're welcome

>>17936783
>Sounds like you don't really understand your mentally family member or mental illness at all.
Nobody enjoys being treated like shit, even if it's being done by a person with mental illness. Nobody has a moral obligation to provide emotional support to someone who gives abuse and manipulation in return. "Understanding" does not equal "infinite patience and selflessness to the point of self-destruction."

>>17936783
I knew who she was, she has a manic schizoaffective type disorder. She went from who she was, to the asshole that she is now. I know it's not her fault but at the same time she's choosing to not seek treatment. There's really no point in playing the blame game with it, my point was ultimately at some point I had to remove myself from that situation because of her actions. It didn't matter that I knew it was because she was ill, because I can't change that.

>>17936806
I agree with you. I see now you were speaking on understanding and not allowing yourself to be mistreated. I was coming at that from the angle of defining oneself. You're completely right. If the mentally ill person is choosing to not get help and is negatively affecting you and those around them, nobody is obligated to be there emotionally.